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This page should be moved to something like Charles Hawtrey (20th century actor), and the page Charles Hawtrey be a disambig, but I'm not sure about those titles. Any ideas? sjorford 13:02, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The pianist Gladys Mills (1918-1978) was NOT the mother of Charles Hawtrey (born 1914)! I've deleted this bizarre entry.-- Stevouk 11:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I've change the title of the autobiography section to biography - it would only be autobiography if authored by Hawtrey.
Apepper 13:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It states Sandie Shaw was his 2nd choice behind Hawtrey. How true is that statment, there are photos of Morrissey holding rosary beads to Shaw implying his devotion to her. I've added the citation needed to the article Blu sonic ( talk) 07:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Why do you say that - I've read several references to that. It might not be as strange as you think. Clearly Morrisey was a fan - as why else pen the obituary? Contaldo80 ( talk) 17:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
It's possible that Morrisey was winding everyone up by making the claim for example. Although there is a thread - from the NME obituary, the cover art for the 'best of' album, and Morrisey's own sexuality. Contaldo80 ( talk) 17:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
"Pay for the films was bad and without either Sid James or Kenneth Williams starring in the 1972 Christmas special, Hawtrey believed it was his due to get top billing. However, the producers went with Hattie Jacques, whom they believed was better known on TV. Rogers tried to contact Hawtrey a day before filming began at the place where Hawtrey regularly dined, to ask him to reconsider; but Hawtrey declined. He never worked for the Carry-On again[4]." Is it supposed to be reference to films or TV? DavidFarmbrough ( talk) 14:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I was confused when I read it too. If you're confused and I'm confused then other peopel will be to. Bolinda ( talk) 04:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC)B
The films. Jacques got higher billing on the tie-in TV special as she was better known on TV. However, Hawtrey never worked in the films or in TV carry-ons again. It's fairly straightforward. Contaldo80 ( talk) 16:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I think it's misleading to say there are a lot of websites, fanzines and books dedicated to Hawtrey. I'm only aware of the Private Widdle book exclusively looking at home. Sure there are plenty of carry-on related material but that's not really the same thing. Contaldo80 ( talk) 14:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Charles Hawtrey's details state he was born 30 November 1914 Hounslow, Middlesex, England, and his death as 27 October 1988 (aged 73) Deal, Kent, England.
I can find no record of his birth (as George Frederick Joffe Hartree) in 1914.
In his death listing for 1988 it says he was born in 1915 but I can't find a birth for him in 1915 (as George Frederick Joffe Hartree) either.
Can somebody prove his birth year & date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.83.50 ( talk) 17:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
He wasn't just a film actor, he also acted on radio, TV and in the theatre, so I have moved the article to Charles Hawtrey (actor). 93.96.236.8 ( talk) 13:23, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. There's no consensus that one or the other is the primary topic, but they need to be distinguished effectively. Cúchullain t/ c 18:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
– These two articles could do with better disambiguation - the more recent Charles Hawtrey (which was at Charles Hawtrey (film actor) until recently) appeared on film, stage, television and radio, so just disambiguating by medium is not enough. Neither seems to be the primary topic, so Charles Hawtrey should continue to be a disambiguation page. I'd suggest using birth years, as per WP:NCPDAB. Relisted. Favonian ( talk) 16:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC). Interplanet Janet ( talk) 14:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I have changed the anecdote about Charles' mother's handbag from "purse" to "handbag". It makes no sense to a British reader to read about a handbag on fire and then to switch to using "purse" which is a different kind of apparel in British English.
John Lennon introduces the song Two of Us from the 1970 Let It Be album : "I dig a pygmy by Charles Hawtrey and the Deaf-Aids....Phase One in which Doris gets her oats " Some think Doris is a reference to McCartney's new wife, Linda . If anyone knows why Charles was mentioned please add. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.219.86 ( talk) 16:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Irrelevant in your own opinion, but an interesting piece of trivia which others will enjoy nonetheless.
It is preposterous to question the notability of a mention by John Lennon on a released Beatles recording (not a "detail from a book", as misstated above). (In fact, it is referenced on the Wikipedia page for the song "Two of Us"). The source is the song itself, easily accessible all over the web and all over the world. Many non-British people- including me, until recent years, have heard of Hawtrey primarily or only through the Beatles reference. It is astonishing to find it intentionally excluded from his page here.
I'd be grateful if someone who knows how to add the correct footnote would do so and settle this absurd contest. Thanks in advance. Joe Suggs ( talk) 14:29, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
(1) Someone's impression that the reference might be derogatory has no bearing on its relevance or notability. (2) Wikipedia is awash with citations of a subject in song lyrics and other media which address the subject's role and profile in popular culture. (3) The (clearly derogatory) reference to Harold Wilson in "Taxman" is properly cited on Wilson's page. (4) Lennon's brief mention of Mao Zedong in "Revolution" is cited on Mao's page. (5) Beatles mentions of real contemporary figures on record are uncommon enough to make it notable. (6) All this, for three years, as I now see, to censor a single sentence of obvious interest and significance to so many people. Joe Suggs ( talk) 19:15, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
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The article seems to imply he was gay but never directly addresses the issue. We should fix that. Was his homosexuality an open secret or was it only officially recognized later in his life? When the Personal Life section of the article says "He guarded his relationships very carefully in an era (lasting until 1967 in England) when male homosexual sex was illegal and punishable by a prison sentence." this implies he was gay without directly addressing the issue as if the article assumes his homosexuality is an open secret to any modern reader of the article which I doubt reader would agree. If it's clear that he was gay or that most people who knew him understood him to be gay then we should be able to state that outright while pointing out that he kept his sex life mostly a closely guarded secret in his lifetime. If he is now widely viewed being gay then we should state that while pointing out he was not open about it during his lifetime, especially when it came to sexual encounters. Notcharliechaplin ( talk) 07:56, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Charles Hawtrey (actor, born 1914) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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This page should be moved to something like Charles Hawtrey (20th century actor), and the page Charles Hawtrey be a disambig, but I'm not sure about those titles. Any ideas? sjorford 13:02, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The pianist Gladys Mills (1918-1978) was NOT the mother of Charles Hawtrey (born 1914)! I've deleted this bizarre entry.-- Stevouk 11:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I've change the title of the autobiography section to biography - it would only be autobiography if authored by Hawtrey.
Apepper 13:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It states Sandie Shaw was his 2nd choice behind Hawtrey. How true is that statment, there are photos of Morrissey holding rosary beads to Shaw implying his devotion to her. I've added the citation needed to the article Blu sonic ( talk) 07:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Why do you say that - I've read several references to that. It might not be as strange as you think. Clearly Morrisey was a fan - as why else pen the obituary? Contaldo80 ( talk) 17:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
It's possible that Morrisey was winding everyone up by making the claim for example. Although there is a thread - from the NME obituary, the cover art for the 'best of' album, and Morrisey's own sexuality. Contaldo80 ( talk) 17:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
"Pay for the films was bad and without either Sid James or Kenneth Williams starring in the 1972 Christmas special, Hawtrey believed it was his due to get top billing. However, the producers went with Hattie Jacques, whom they believed was better known on TV. Rogers tried to contact Hawtrey a day before filming began at the place where Hawtrey regularly dined, to ask him to reconsider; but Hawtrey declined. He never worked for the Carry-On again[4]." Is it supposed to be reference to films or TV? DavidFarmbrough ( talk) 14:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I was confused when I read it too. If you're confused and I'm confused then other peopel will be to. Bolinda ( talk) 04:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC)B
The films. Jacques got higher billing on the tie-in TV special as she was better known on TV. However, Hawtrey never worked in the films or in TV carry-ons again. It's fairly straightforward. Contaldo80 ( talk) 16:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I think it's misleading to say there are a lot of websites, fanzines and books dedicated to Hawtrey. I'm only aware of the Private Widdle book exclusively looking at home. Sure there are plenty of carry-on related material but that's not really the same thing. Contaldo80 ( talk) 14:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Charles Hawtrey's details state he was born 30 November 1914 Hounslow, Middlesex, England, and his death as 27 October 1988 (aged 73) Deal, Kent, England.
I can find no record of his birth (as George Frederick Joffe Hartree) in 1914.
In his death listing for 1988 it says he was born in 1915 but I can't find a birth for him in 1915 (as George Frederick Joffe Hartree) either.
Can somebody prove his birth year & date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.83.50 ( talk) 17:38, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
He wasn't just a film actor, he also acted on radio, TV and in the theatre, so I have moved the article to Charles Hawtrey (actor). 93.96.236.8 ( talk) 13:23, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. There's no consensus that one or the other is the primary topic, but they need to be distinguished effectively. Cúchullain t/ c 18:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
– These two articles could do with better disambiguation - the more recent Charles Hawtrey (which was at Charles Hawtrey (film actor) until recently) appeared on film, stage, television and radio, so just disambiguating by medium is not enough. Neither seems to be the primary topic, so Charles Hawtrey should continue to be a disambiguation page. I'd suggest using birth years, as per WP:NCPDAB. Relisted. Favonian ( talk) 16:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC). Interplanet Janet ( talk) 14:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I have changed the anecdote about Charles' mother's handbag from "purse" to "handbag". It makes no sense to a British reader to read about a handbag on fire and then to switch to using "purse" which is a different kind of apparel in British English.
John Lennon introduces the song Two of Us from the 1970 Let It Be album : "I dig a pygmy by Charles Hawtrey and the Deaf-Aids....Phase One in which Doris gets her oats " Some think Doris is a reference to McCartney's new wife, Linda . If anyone knows why Charles was mentioned please add. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.219.86 ( talk) 16:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Irrelevant in your own opinion, but an interesting piece of trivia which others will enjoy nonetheless.
It is preposterous to question the notability of a mention by John Lennon on a released Beatles recording (not a "detail from a book", as misstated above). (In fact, it is referenced on the Wikipedia page for the song "Two of Us"). The source is the song itself, easily accessible all over the web and all over the world. Many non-British people- including me, until recent years, have heard of Hawtrey primarily or only through the Beatles reference. It is astonishing to find it intentionally excluded from his page here.
I'd be grateful if someone who knows how to add the correct footnote would do so and settle this absurd contest. Thanks in advance. Joe Suggs ( talk) 14:29, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
(1) Someone's impression that the reference might be derogatory has no bearing on its relevance or notability. (2) Wikipedia is awash with citations of a subject in song lyrics and other media which address the subject's role and profile in popular culture. (3) The (clearly derogatory) reference to Harold Wilson in "Taxman" is properly cited on Wilson's page. (4) Lennon's brief mention of Mao Zedong in "Revolution" is cited on Mao's page. (5) Beatles mentions of real contemporary figures on record are uncommon enough to make it notable. (6) All this, for three years, as I now see, to censor a single sentence of obvious interest and significance to so many people. Joe Suggs ( talk) 19:15, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
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The article seems to imply he was gay but never directly addresses the issue. We should fix that. Was his homosexuality an open secret or was it only officially recognized later in his life? When the Personal Life section of the article says "He guarded his relationships very carefully in an era (lasting until 1967 in England) when male homosexual sex was illegal and punishable by a prison sentence." this implies he was gay without directly addressing the issue as if the article assumes his homosexuality is an open secret to any modern reader of the article which I doubt reader would agree. If it's clear that he was gay or that most people who knew him understood him to be gay then we should be able to state that outright while pointing out that he kept his sex life mostly a closely guarded secret in his lifetime. If he is now widely viewed being gay then we should state that while pointing out he was not open about it during his lifetime, especially when it came to sexual encounters. Notcharliechaplin ( talk) 07:56, 2 September 2023 (UTC)