This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Example: APNews "No evidence ivermectin is a miracle drug against COVID-19" fact checking article claiming
However there is a plethora of scientific articles and studies (including double blind placebo) that indeed show that it is an effective and safe treatment. Discussion about journalistic integrity of the AP could also be interesting.
Collapse long list of unreliable and/or irrelevant sources, copy-pasted from the "fake" journal article at ivmmeta.com
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References: 1.Afsar et al., SSRN., Ivermectin Use Associated with Reduced Duration of COVID-19 Febrile Illness in a Community Setting, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3734478. 2.Ahmed et al., International Journal of Infectious Diseases, doi:10.1016/j.ijid.2020.11.191, A five day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220325066. 3.Alam et al., European Journal ofMedical and Health Sciences, doi:10.24018/ejmed.2020.2.6.599, Ivermectin as Pre-exposure Prophylaxis for COVID-19 among Healthcare Providers in a Selected Tertiary Hospital in Dhaka – An Observational Study, https://ejmed.org/index.php/ejmed/article/view/599. 4.Altman, D., BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.d2304, How to obtain the P value from a confidence interval, https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d2304. 5.Altman (B) et al., BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.d2090, How to obtain the confidence interval from a P value, https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d2090. 6.Anglemyer et al., Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2014, Issue 4, doi:10.1002/14651858.MR000034.pub2, Healthcare outcomes assessed with observational study designs compared with those assessed in randomized trials, https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cd..0.1002/14651858.MR000034.pub2/full. 7.Behera et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.29.20222661v1, Role of ivermectin in the prevention of COVID-19 infection among healthcare workers in India: A matched case-control study, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.29.20222661v1. 8.Bernigaud et al., Annals of Dermatology and Venereology, doi:10.1016/j.annder.2020.09.231, Ivermectin benefit: from scabies to COVID-19, an example of serendipity, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S015196382030627X. 9.Budhiraja et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.11.16.20232223, Clinical Profile of First 1000 COVID-19 Cases Admitted at Tertiary Care Hospitals and the Correlates of their Mortality: An Indian Experience, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.16.20232223v1. 10.Cadegiani et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.31.20223883, Early COVID-19 Therapy with Azithromycin Plus Nitazoxanide, Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine in Outpatient Settings Significantly Reduced Symptoms Compared to Known Outcomes in Untreated Patients, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.31.20223883v1. 11.Camprubí et al., PLoS ONE, 15:11, doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0242184, Lack of efficacy of standard doses of ivermectin in severe COVID-19 patients, https://journals.plos.org/plosone/..le?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184. 12.Carvallo et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.09.10.20191619, Safety and Efficacy of the combined use of ivermectin, dexamethasone, enoxaparin and aspirin against COVID-19, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.10.20191619v1. 13.Carvallo (B) et al., Journal of Biomedical Research and Clinical Investigation, doi:10.31546/2633-8653.1007, Study of the Efficacy and Safety of Topical Ivermectin + Iota-Carrageenan in the Prophylaxis against COVID-19 in Health Personnel, https://medicalpressopenaccess.com/upload/1605709669_1007.pdf. 14.Carvallo (C) et al., NCT04425850, Usefulness of Topic Ivermectin and Carrageenan to Prevent Contagion of Covid 19 (IVERCAR), https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04425850. 15.Chaccour et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-116547/v1, The effect of early treatment with ivermectin on viral load, symptoms and humoral response in patients with mild COVID-19: a pilot, double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-116547/v1. 16.Chachar et al., International Journal of Sciences, 9:31-35, doi:10.18483/ijSci.2378, Effectiveness of Ivermectin in SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 Patients, https://www.ijsciences.com/pub/article/2378. 17.Concato et al., NEJM, 342:1887-1892, doi:10.1056/NEJM200006223422507, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm200006223422507. 18.Deaton et al., Social Science & Medicine, 210, doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2017.12.005, Understanding and misunderstanding randomized controlled trials, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953617307359. 19.Deng, H., PyMeta, Python module for meta-analysis, http://www.pymeta.com/. 20.Elgazzar et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-100956/v2, Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v3. 21.Elgazzar (B) et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-100956/v2, Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v3. 22.Espitia-Hernandez et al., Biomedical Research, 31:5, Effects of Ivermectin-azithromycin-cholecalciferol combined therapy on COVID-19 infected patients: A proof of concept study, https://www.biomedres.info/biomedi..-proof-of-concept-study-14435.html. 23.Gorial et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.07.07.20145979, Effectiveness of Ivermectin as add-on Therapy in COVID-19 Management (Pilot Trial), https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.07.20145979v1. 24.Hashim et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.26.20219345, Controlled randomized clinical trial on using Ivermectin with Doxycycline for treating COVID-19 patients in Baghdad, Iraq, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.26.20219345v1. 25.Hellwig et al., International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, doi:10.1016/j.ijantimicag.2020.106248, A COVID-19 Prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of Ivermectin, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920304684. 26.Khan et al., Archivos de Bronconeumología, doi:10.1016/j.arbres.2020.08.007, Ivermectin treatment may improve the prognosis of patients with COVID-19, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030028962030288X. 27.Lee et al., Arch Intern Med., 2011, 171:1, 18-22, doi:10.1001/archinternmed.2010.482, Analysis of Overall Level of Evidence Behind Infectious Diseases Society of America Practice Guidelines, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/j..nternalmedicine/fullarticle/226373. 28.Mahmud et al., Clinical Trial Results, NCT04523831, Clinical Trial of Ivermectin Plus Doxycycline for the Treatment of Confirmed Covid-19 Infection, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04523831?view=results. 29.McLean et al., Open Forum Infect. Dis. September 2015, 2:3, doi:10.1093/ofid/ofv100, Impact of Late Oseltamivir Treatment on Influenza Symptoms in the Outpatient Setting: Results of a Randomized Trial, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4525010/. 30.Niaee et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-109670/v1, Ivermectin as an adjunct treatment for hospitalized adult COVID-19 patients: A randomized multi-center clinical trial, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-109670/v1. 31.Nichol et al., Injury, 2010, doi: 10.1016/j.injury.2010.03.033, Challenging issues in randomised controlled trials, https://www.injuryjournal.com/article/S0020-1383(10)00233-0/fulltext. 32.Podder et al., IMC J. Med. Science, 14:2, July 2020, Outcome of ivermectin treated mild to moderate COVID-19 cases: a single-centre, open-label, randomised controlled study, http://imcjms.com/registration/journal_abstract/353. 33.Rajter et al., Chest, doi:10.1016/j.chest.2020.10.009, Use of Ivermectin is Associated with Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19 (ICON study), https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012369220348984. 34.Shouman et al., NCT04422561, Use of Ivermectin as a Prophylactic Option in Asymptomatic Family Close Contacts with Patients of COVID-19, https://clinicaltrials.gov/Provide..cs/61/NCT04422561/Prot_SAP_000.pdf. 35.Soto-Becerra et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.06.20208066, Real-World Effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and ivermectin among hospitalized COVID-19 patients: Results of a target trial emulation using observational data from a nationwide Healthcare System in Peru, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.06.20208066v1. 36.Spoorthi et al., IAIM, 2020, 7:10, 177-182, Utility of Ivermectin and Doxycycline combination for the treatment of SARSCoV-2, http://iaimjournal.com/wp-content/..oads/2020/10/iaim_2020_0710_23.pdf. 37.Sweeting et al., Statistics in Medicine, doi:10.1002/sim.1761, What to add to nothing? Use and avoidance of continuity corrections in meta‐analysis of sparse data, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/sim.1761. 38.Treanor et al., JAMA, 2000, 283:8, 1016-1024, doi:10.1001/jama.283.8.1016, Efficacy and Safety of the Oral Neuraminidase Inhibitor Oseltamivir in Treating Acute Influenza: A Randomized Controlled Trial, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192425. 39.Vallejos et al., Coronavirus in Argentina: Warnings and evidence on the consumption of ivermectin against Covid-19, https://totalnewsagency.com/2020/1..de-ivermectina-contra-el-covid-19/. 40.Zhang et al., JAMA, 80:19, 1690, doi:10.1001/jama.280.19.1690, What's the relative risk? A method of correcting the odds ratio in cohort studies of common outcomes, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/188182. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adriaandh ( talk • contribs) 05:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC) |
You are citing unreliable sources, see WP:MEDRS for Wikipedia's medical sourcing guidelines, by which the WHO is super-reliable. Alexbrn ( talk) 12:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC).
Aremon actually slightly understates the case. If you read carefully, [1] the USFDA position on the use of Ivermectin for the treatment and prevention of COVID-19 is that the ANIMAL FORMULATION of Ivermectin should not be used for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 in humans. The word "Ivermectin" is not qualified but the products they are discussing are for "Animal & Veterinary". Ivermectin has the full USFDA approval for use in humans for all indications. The USFDA is a regulatory body. Their function is to approve or disapprove new drugs/devices. They do not provide guidance to physicians or patients on the best treatment options. -- Vrtlsclpl ( talk) 13:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I've removed the blurb about the train attack on the hospital ship, because it's not really "misinformation". The attacker might have been under the influence of some misinformation (or, I don't know, Paranoid delusions?), but the attack itself isn't misinformation, and there hasn't been any misinformation about the attack (that I know of). WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:28, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
The entire section is not written from a WP:NPOV. There is a wealth of information indicating that Ivermectin is effective both as a prophylactic medication and as a treatment in all phases of COVID-19. Today the NIH revised their position on Ivermectin, removing their guidance that doctors should not prescribe ivermectin except as part of a clinical trial, replacing it with a neutral stance, saying "currently there are insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19". This is the same status as convalescent plasma. This section needs to be rewritten from a NPOV, stating that Ivermectin is being used in many regions of the world, and that it is being researched. Tvaughan1 ( talk) 03:45, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Tvaughan1. The physicians who testified to the US NIH COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel issued a press release. They state that Ivermectin is now a treatment option for COVID-19 in the US as it has been in many nations around the world. If Ivermectin in COVID-19 is misinformation, the USNIH is the primary source of that misinformation. -- Vrtlsclpl ( talk) 05:52, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Can whoever reverted my reference to the financial times article as counterpoint to the misinformation please explain why that is not a relevant or reliable source, while the blog post of dr Gorski is? The one is from a specialist in this field doing actual research on the subject, while the other is just a doctor with an online following making unsubstantiated claims. Adriaandh ( talk) 14:02, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology
https://web.archive.org/web/20210116010946/https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:BE21:7200:0:0:0:3 ( talk) 08:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
There are a number of articles from legitimate sources, including articles published this month (January 2021) questioning whether Covid-19 may have been an engineered/manipulated virus based on SARS-CoV-2. The conclusion that it was a natural occurring virus has not been conclusively established and stating so seems to be an attempt to stifle inquiry into the subject. I suggest that the tone of the article, and this section in particular be modified.
IAmBecomeDeath ( talk) 08:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The lab leak hypothesis has gained significant attention from government, academic and media organizations, which I have included in a draft for a new entry on the subject. Just in the past few days, a number of media organizations have published articles on the subject, sparked by an exchange reported between US and UK government officials (see here). There are already a number of academic pre-prints from reputed scientists, which I have cited in my draft, so this theory can no longer be considered as "misinformation" and doesn't belong in this article. Some scientists have said that given the lack of evidence for a zoonitic jump over 12 months on, the theory of an accidental lab leak is just as plausible, if not more credible. It is certainly not misinformation, but the subject of academic debate, and ongoing investigation that is likely being blocked by the Chinese government. New York Magazine published a 12,000-word cover story yesterday, in which the author says "Proposing that something unfortunate happened during a scientific experiment in Wuhan — where COVID-19 was first diagnosed and where there are three high-security virology labs, one of which held in its freezers the most comprehensive inventory of sampled bat viruses in the world — isn’t a conspiracy theory. It’s just a theory. It merits attention, I believe, alongside other reasoned attempts to explain the source of our current catastrophe."
ScrupulousScribe ( talk) 11:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
"The Sun and the Daily Mail, and The New York Post (and more recently also Fox News)"← That clinches it. These are all junk sources. Alexbrn ( talk) 14:04, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
"If we were to focus just on this story, these publications are more than sufficient to qualify for Wikipedia:Reliable sources."What is that supposed to mean? WP:RSP lists all three sources as unreliable. Robby.is.on ( talk) 14:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
References
There is no tangible evidence of this "theory", and per Wuhan Institute of Virology#Conspiracy theories, there are serious virologists who refute it as junk. Trying to paste-in chatter and conjecture from sources to support a such "theory" will not work on Wikipedia. I see an equally long dispute and discussion on this subject on the Talk page of the Talk:Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the same points have been made to you, and are not being listened to. At some point, WP:IDHT begins to apply, and with consequences. It is a giant waste of time to try and use Wikipedia as the platform to make a "theory" (especially ones tinged with "conspiracy"), into a "fact". Britishfinance ( talk) 02:59, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
things such as leaks can never be ruled out completely, and when scientists feel compelled to mention it, that mention is just filler, and like Alexbrn, he doesn't address what to do when a whole bunch of mainstream media sources that meet WP:RS give credence to the lab leak theory. As Wikipedians, we don't get to pick what we like from what scientists say, and present as fact what we believe to be so. ScrupulousScribe ( talk) 10:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
I'll just observe that labeling a lab origin as a conspiracy theory seems highly questionable at this point in time (although it was almost certainly appropriate several months ago when the original claims against this were made). You've got peer reviewed papers that point to it as a possibility. You've got Nature explicitly saying that a detailed investigation of that Wuhan laboratories is necessary for us to determine if it is the source. Also, the original claims that lab origin is impossible look exceedingly weak nearly a year later. Some of the most prominent claims boil down to the fact that the virus appears to have its origin in bats. Given that a lab less than a mile from the apparent start of the outbreak was carrying out gain of function research on the closest known natural relatives of COVID-19 (which also came from a bat), this does nothing to refute the possibility that one of the modified viruses escaped the lab. We also now know that there are serious conflicts of interest involving the scientists that rushed to declare a laboratory leak impossible. If anything, I would argue that claims that a laboratory leak can be ruled out are clearly misinformation that was propagated by obviously interested parties before there was sufficient time to study the matter. And yes, the fact that in all the world two laboratories were performing gain of function research on the closest known ancestor of COVID-19 and they are located in the same city where the outbreak occurred seems exceedingly relevant. If this is a coincidence (and it may be) it is a highly improbable coincidence. 72.89.56.239 ( talk) 20:03, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
The U.S. State Department released intelligence yesterday that supports the claim that the coronavirus originated in a lab: [9] Also, former Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger (not a "Trump loyalist") stated last month that evidence exists supporting that notion: [10] And it's possible that more information will be released: 1, 2 It's silly to blanket-dismiss the lab origin theory off-hand as merely a "conspiracy theory". -- 1990'sguy ( talk) 22:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Going ahead and preemptively plopping this talk section here, regarding harm caused by the vaccine.
We definitely can't have content like "No one has died of [from] the vaccine" without MEDRS. I agree with the sentiment expressed that this section may not be needed at all. This seems to me like the kind of article to have content like the Bill Gates microchip conspiracy theory. Jdphenix ( talk) 21:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry - please bear with me, am new to all this & hope I am contributing in the right bit. I was reading the Covid-19 misinformation section 'Vaccine misinformation' subheading 'infertility' and followed the link to footnote 290: Gorski DH (14 December 2020). "It was inevitable that antivaxxers would claim that COVID-19 vaccines make females infertile' (Science Based Medicine). I wanted to read the original petition that Yeadon & Wodarg wrote with this strange claim. Gorski's article has a link which does not work, to the original 43-page letter/petition. Unfortunately this means that the Wikipedia 'Vaccine misinformation' subheading 'infertility' section cannot be verified until this link is shown to work. I think that, although a detail, it is important to fix this problem, otherwise people who are misinformed may use it as evidence for their case. Thank you. Please redirect me to the correct bit if I have landed in the wrong section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by GalinaGardiner1 ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Vienna1027 is trying to edit war this [11] edit in. This is meant to be an article about misinformation, not one which spreads it! Alexbrn ( talk) 17:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
There are 44.000 Wet Markets in China where the Virus could have emerged, but it was the one right next to that lab. No way in hell that this was pure coincidence. It's scary to see that Wikipedia does not even allows to discuss this as a hypothesis. 2003:C1:4F1D:F55:74C8:CCC2:B7F2:82E6 ( talk) 13:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I posted this guide at the top of the article. I think it is a reasonable candidate for media worth profiling. It has Creative Commons licensing, UNESCO has top authority as an organization for speaking on this topic, and so far as I know there are not other proposals for leading media.
This is a high-traffic article and I can imagine many readers wanting even more. This pamphlet is about 16 pages and gives a readable orientation to anyone thinking more about the issue. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 4 February 2021. The result of the move review was retracted. |
The result of the move request was: Move. Mcguy15 ( talk) 22:09, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic → COVID-19 misinformation – The current name is a bit verbose. Per WP:CONCISE, I think it'd be a good idea to shorten it. Thoughts? If this is well received, I may open requested moves for some sub-articles too. Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by governments, Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by the United States, Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by China. These are all quite verbose and could be shortened. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I'm coming in from the article on RNA vaccine where this quote comes from. The issue is that this is an argument that convinces a lot of people who are against the use of the covid-19 vaccines. Can anybody help verify this quote and put it in relation to another quote "The use of RNA vaccines goes back to the early 1990s." Our national TV in Flanders has a topic dedicated on debunking false news on covid-19 and an article on this mRNA issue and there it states (translated from flemish) [1]
References
I am absolutely 0% pro-Trump or pro-Republican (I am Canadian and I support the Liberals), however, I thought that it would violate WP:NPOV to introduce the article by blaming most of the English COVID-19 misinformation on Trump in the lead section, so I removed that sentence from the lead. Let me know if you think there are any issues. Thanks! Félix An ( talk) 16:56, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
A lot of the misinformation was not spread by Trump himself, but by his supporters, as well as Falun Gong, The Epoch Times, etc. Félix An ( talk) 00:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Respectfully, it's frankly difficult to overstate how absurd it is to call the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis a "debunked conspiracy theory". We simply do not have enough data to determine, with any degree of certainty, the origin of SARS-COV-2. This means one cannot, in good faith, dismiss the hypothesis that SARS-COV-2 was released (not necessarily intentionally, but perhaps accidentally through negligence) from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The virologists at the Wuhan Institute may have been performing "gain of function" research on some form of the coronavirus -- a common practice which the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy publicly warned against as recently as 2014. [1] Bat-based coronaviruses, and the transmissibility thereof, have previously been the subject of laboratory experiments in China. [2] Prior to the pandemic, U.S. Embassy officials warned about the risks of such infectious disease research being undertaken specifically in Wuhan, China. [3] The veracity of the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis with respect to SARS-COV-2 is presently being investigated by the World Health Organization. [4]
Again, the hypothesis could be true or false. That's the entire point -- the hypothesis is being officially investigated, and we don't yet have enough data to either confirm or refute it. This means it's at least plausible. To refer to the hypothesis, as this entry on Wikipedia does, as a thoroughly debunked "conspiracy theory" is highly disingenuous (and it preemptively shuts down reasonable dialogue which society must have if we want to minimize the odds of history repeating itself).
I respectfully assert that the above-referenced portion of the entry should be reworded or removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:fe20:2390:a51d:4c1c:3842:5a79 ( talk • contribs)
I agree with the above commenters. The only source purporting to "debunk" the theory is, as far as I can tell, just a list of people who disagree with the theory. I'm putting the Template:Failed verification ; Although my opinion would be to remove the section altogether. Yitscar ( talk) 17:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
the lab leak hypothesis is an extremely unlikely pathway for COVID-19 and will not require further study as part of their work in studying the origins of the virus. [12]. Keep an eye out for newspaper articles on this later today. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 15:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Awhile ago one of the authors involved with these papers contacted me but I didn't look too hard since everyone at the time was saying the same thing; however, this Washington Post editorial over the weekend
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/05/coronavirus-origins-mystery-china/?arc404=true
reminded me of the fact there are several peer reviewed papers arguing for the viability of a lab origin that are not mentioned here. When the author first wrote me, he mentioned Wikipedia's clear and inarguable censorship of scientific research, and talked about working with reporters to expose Wikipedia's collusion with the CCCP to suppress the peer reviewed research.
Looking over Wikipedia's guidelines, it is beyond argument that passing peer review is the gold standard for inclusion in a Wikipedia page. Why have all of these articles below been excluded from Wikipedia entirely?
If it is not pressure from the Chinese government, what reason does Wikipedia have for excluding research that has past peer review in sound scientific publications?
These are the papers, in order of publication. They have all been peer reviewed, this is Wikipedia's gold standard, is it not? What is being missed here? I'm going to have the author send the reporters working on stories about Wikipedia doing direct censorship for the Chinese government to this page now, let's see how long it takes for these papers to be added to Wikipedia.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jmv.26478
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202000240
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-020-01151-1
https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/fvl-2020-0390 Driftwood1300 ( talk) 16:45, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Please link where "other factors" than passing peer review are weighed, where is that in writing? That first paper is then cited by several other of the peer reviewed papers. Lots of peer review, but Wikipedia editors are getting too much money to ignore them or what?
Because that's exactly something someone doing censorship for the CCCP would just make up. Like I just got here, and Wikipedia is not vague: " An appropriate secondary source is one that is published by a reputable publisher, is written by one or more experts in the field, and is peer reviewed."
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources_(science)
Where on that page is your reasoning coming from?
All of those papers I linked have been peer reviewed. They are all published in respected science journals. Do you want to debate whether or not the authors are qualified? Okay, then what are your qualifications Mr. Anonymous Editor?
Right now Wikipedia is very obviously actively censoring the peer reviewed literature. Also the opinion of the Washington Post's Editorial Board? You guys have better judgement than them?
So what exactly are the credentials of the editors who are censoring all of these papers about gain of function research from Wikipedia?
Driftwood1300 ( talk) 17:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Driftwood1300 ( talk) 18:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello friends. COVID-19 lab leak hypothesis was moved out of draftspace today and may need some attention. I've added an NPOV tag, and I've started a talk page discussion. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 07:22, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
<Personal attack removed> Billybostickson ( talk) 09:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The possibility that Covid-19 originated from a Wuhan lab leak is not a "conspriacy theory", it is a scientific hypothesis. See the Cornell University pre-print paper submitted 7 Feb 2021 by several authors here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.03910 (and the 2 papers co-authored by Dr Alina Chan included in its bibliography), and the diverse list of scientists who agree the hypothesis deserves further consideration, published on 6 Feb 2021 in the Daily Telegraph UK newspaper, archived here: https://archive.vn/efmTs. Of note is that the list includes Dr Richard Ebright, who is wrongly included in this "misinformation" article among scientists who have "dismissed" the lab leak theory. On 9 February 2021 one of the authors of the Cornell paper, Yuri Deigin, co-created a wiki page on "Covid 19 lab leak hypothesis", but by 10 February 2021 someone has already edited that page so that it instantly re-directs to this "mis-information" article, which appears wrong for the reasons above. Leo Brennan ( talk) 10:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
It would be great if whichever group is sending all these "new editors" to push the anti-conspiracy angle would have them read MEDRS first. A pre-print (not MEDRS) of a primary speculative article (not MEDRS) by a bunch of people with laughably irrelevant, very low, or literally zero scientific credentials (extremely unlikely to be MEDRS)* is just so clearly not going to be accepted by Wikipedia, so why waste everyone's time?
*I mean really, who is going to take this seriously?
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JoelleJay ( talk) 19:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The lab leak hypothesis should be it's own seperate article. This is because it does not belong in an article about misinformation, since it is a theory about the origin of COVID-19, not a "Conspiracy theory". A conspiracy theory would be that COVID was a plandemic that was manufactured so that the globalist elites can take over the world. however, the "Lab leak hypothesis" is NOT a conspiracy theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.16.166.109 ( talk) 15:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Example: APNews "No evidence ivermectin is a miracle drug against COVID-19" fact checking article claiming
However there is a plethora of scientific articles and studies (including double blind placebo) that indeed show that it is an effective and safe treatment. Discussion about journalistic integrity of the AP could also be interesting.
Collapse long list of unreliable and/or irrelevant sources, copy-pasted from the "fake" journal article at ivmmeta.com
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References: 1.Afsar et al., SSRN., Ivermectin Use Associated with Reduced Duration of COVID-19 Febrile Illness in a Community Setting, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3734478. 2.Ahmed et al., International Journal of Infectious Diseases, doi:10.1016/j.ijid.2020.11.191, A five day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971220325066. 3.Alam et al., European Journal ofMedical and Health Sciences, doi:10.24018/ejmed.2020.2.6.599, Ivermectin as Pre-exposure Prophylaxis for COVID-19 among Healthcare Providers in a Selected Tertiary Hospital in Dhaka – An Observational Study, https://ejmed.org/index.php/ejmed/article/view/599. 4.Altman, D., BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.d2304, How to obtain the P value from a confidence interval, https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d2304. 5.Altman (B) et al., BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.d2090, How to obtain the confidence interval from a P value, https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d2090. 6.Anglemyer et al., Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2014, Issue 4, doi:10.1002/14651858.MR000034.pub2, Healthcare outcomes assessed with observational study designs compared with those assessed in randomized trials, https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cd..0.1002/14651858.MR000034.pub2/full. 7.Behera et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.29.20222661v1, Role of ivermectin in the prevention of COVID-19 infection among healthcare workers in India: A matched case-control study, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.29.20222661v1. 8.Bernigaud et al., Annals of Dermatology and Venereology, doi:10.1016/j.annder.2020.09.231, Ivermectin benefit: from scabies to COVID-19, an example of serendipity, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S015196382030627X. 9.Budhiraja et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.11.16.20232223, Clinical Profile of First 1000 COVID-19 Cases Admitted at Tertiary Care Hospitals and the Correlates of their Mortality: An Indian Experience, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.16.20232223v1. 10.Cadegiani et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.31.20223883, Early COVID-19 Therapy with Azithromycin Plus Nitazoxanide, Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine in Outpatient Settings Significantly Reduced Symptoms Compared to Known Outcomes in Untreated Patients, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.31.20223883v1. 11.Camprubí et al., PLoS ONE, 15:11, doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0242184, Lack of efficacy of standard doses of ivermectin in severe COVID-19 patients, https://journals.plos.org/plosone/..le?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0242184. 12.Carvallo et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.09.10.20191619, Safety and Efficacy of the combined use of ivermectin, dexamethasone, enoxaparin and aspirin against COVID-19, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.10.20191619v1. 13.Carvallo (B) et al., Journal of Biomedical Research and Clinical Investigation, doi:10.31546/2633-8653.1007, Study of the Efficacy and Safety of Topical Ivermectin + Iota-Carrageenan in the Prophylaxis against COVID-19 in Health Personnel, https://medicalpressopenaccess.com/upload/1605709669_1007.pdf. 14.Carvallo (C) et al., NCT04425850, Usefulness of Topic Ivermectin and Carrageenan to Prevent Contagion of Covid 19 (IVERCAR), https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04425850. 15.Chaccour et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-116547/v1, The effect of early treatment with ivermectin on viral load, symptoms and humoral response in patients with mild COVID-19: a pilot, double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-116547/v1. 16.Chachar et al., International Journal of Sciences, 9:31-35, doi:10.18483/ijSci.2378, Effectiveness of Ivermectin in SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 Patients, https://www.ijsciences.com/pub/article/2378. 17.Concato et al., NEJM, 342:1887-1892, doi:10.1056/NEJM200006223422507, https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm200006223422507. 18.Deaton et al., Social Science & Medicine, 210, doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2017.12.005, Understanding and misunderstanding randomized controlled trials, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953617307359. 19.Deng, H., PyMeta, Python module for meta-analysis, http://www.pymeta.com/. 20.Elgazzar et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-100956/v2, Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v3. 21.Elgazzar (B) et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-100956/v2, Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-100956/v3. 22.Espitia-Hernandez et al., Biomedical Research, 31:5, Effects of Ivermectin-azithromycin-cholecalciferol combined therapy on COVID-19 infected patients: A proof of concept study, https://www.biomedres.info/biomedi..-proof-of-concept-study-14435.html. 23.Gorial et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.07.07.20145979, Effectiveness of Ivermectin as add-on Therapy in COVID-19 Management (Pilot Trial), https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.07.20145979v1. 24.Hashim et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.26.20219345, Controlled randomized clinical trial on using Ivermectin with Doxycycline for treating COVID-19 patients in Baghdad, Iraq, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.26.20219345v1. 25.Hellwig et al., International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, doi:10.1016/j.ijantimicag.2020.106248, A COVID-19 Prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of Ivermectin, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920304684. 26.Khan et al., Archivos de Bronconeumología, doi:10.1016/j.arbres.2020.08.007, Ivermectin treatment may improve the prognosis of patients with COVID-19, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030028962030288X. 27.Lee et al., Arch Intern Med., 2011, 171:1, 18-22, doi:10.1001/archinternmed.2010.482, Analysis of Overall Level of Evidence Behind Infectious Diseases Society of America Practice Guidelines, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/j..nternalmedicine/fullarticle/226373. 28.Mahmud et al., Clinical Trial Results, NCT04523831, Clinical Trial of Ivermectin Plus Doxycycline for the Treatment of Confirmed Covid-19 Infection, https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT04523831?view=results. 29.McLean et al., Open Forum Infect. Dis. September 2015, 2:3, doi:10.1093/ofid/ofv100, Impact of Late Oseltamivir Treatment on Influenza Symptoms in the Outpatient Setting: Results of a Randomized Trial, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4525010/. 30.Niaee et al., Research Square, doi:10.21203/rs.3.rs-109670/v1, Ivermectin as an adjunct treatment for hospitalized adult COVID-19 patients: A randomized multi-center clinical trial, https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-109670/v1. 31.Nichol et al., Injury, 2010, doi: 10.1016/j.injury.2010.03.033, Challenging issues in randomised controlled trials, https://www.injuryjournal.com/article/S0020-1383(10)00233-0/fulltext. 32.Podder et al., IMC J. Med. Science, 14:2, July 2020, Outcome of ivermectin treated mild to moderate COVID-19 cases: a single-centre, open-label, randomised controlled study, http://imcjms.com/registration/journal_abstract/353. 33.Rajter et al., Chest, doi:10.1016/j.chest.2020.10.009, Use of Ivermectin is Associated with Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients with COVID-19 (ICON study), https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012369220348984. 34.Shouman et al., NCT04422561, Use of Ivermectin as a Prophylactic Option in Asymptomatic Family Close Contacts with Patients of COVID-19, https://clinicaltrials.gov/Provide..cs/61/NCT04422561/Prot_SAP_000.pdf. 35.Soto-Becerra et al., medRxiv, doi:10.1101/2020.10.06.20208066, Real-World Effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and ivermectin among hospitalized COVID-19 patients: Results of a target trial emulation using observational data from a nationwide Healthcare System in Peru, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.06.20208066v1. 36.Spoorthi et al., IAIM, 2020, 7:10, 177-182, Utility of Ivermectin and Doxycycline combination for the treatment of SARSCoV-2, http://iaimjournal.com/wp-content/..oads/2020/10/iaim_2020_0710_23.pdf. 37.Sweeting et al., Statistics in Medicine, doi:10.1002/sim.1761, What to add to nothing? Use and avoidance of continuity corrections in meta‐analysis of sparse data, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/sim.1761. 38.Treanor et al., JAMA, 2000, 283:8, 1016-1024, doi:10.1001/jama.283.8.1016, Efficacy and Safety of the Oral Neuraminidase Inhibitor Oseltamivir in Treating Acute Influenza: A Randomized Controlled Trial, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192425. 39.Vallejos et al., Coronavirus in Argentina: Warnings and evidence on the consumption of ivermectin against Covid-19, https://totalnewsagency.com/2020/1..de-ivermectina-contra-el-covid-19/. 40.Zhang et al., JAMA, 80:19, 1690, doi:10.1001/jama.280.19.1690, What's the relative risk? A method of correcting the odds ratio in cohort studies of common outcomes, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/188182. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adriaandh ( talk • contribs) 05:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC) |
You are citing unreliable sources, see WP:MEDRS for Wikipedia's medical sourcing guidelines, by which the WHO is super-reliable. Alexbrn ( talk) 12:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC).
Aremon actually slightly understates the case. If you read carefully, [1] the USFDA position on the use of Ivermectin for the treatment and prevention of COVID-19 is that the ANIMAL FORMULATION of Ivermectin should not be used for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 in humans. The word "Ivermectin" is not qualified but the products they are discussing are for "Animal & Veterinary". Ivermectin has the full USFDA approval for use in humans for all indications. The USFDA is a regulatory body. Their function is to approve or disapprove new drugs/devices. They do not provide guidance to physicians or patients on the best treatment options. -- Vrtlsclpl ( talk) 13:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I've removed the blurb about the train attack on the hospital ship, because it's not really "misinformation". The attacker might have been under the influence of some misinformation (or, I don't know, Paranoid delusions?), but the attack itself isn't misinformation, and there hasn't been any misinformation about the attack (that I know of). WhatamIdoing ( talk) 00:28, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
The entire section is not written from a WP:NPOV. There is a wealth of information indicating that Ivermectin is effective both as a prophylactic medication and as a treatment in all phases of COVID-19. Today the NIH revised their position on Ivermectin, removing their guidance that doctors should not prescribe ivermectin except as part of a clinical trial, replacing it with a neutral stance, saying "currently there are insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19". This is the same status as convalescent plasma. This section needs to be rewritten from a NPOV, stating that Ivermectin is being used in many regions of the world, and that it is being researched. Tvaughan1 ( talk) 03:45, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Tvaughan1. The physicians who testified to the US NIH COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel issued a press release. They state that Ivermectin is now a treatment option for COVID-19 in the US as it has been in many nations around the world. If Ivermectin in COVID-19 is misinformation, the USNIH is the primary source of that misinformation. -- Vrtlsclpl ( talk) 05:52, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Can whoever reverted my reference to the financial times article as counterpoint to the misinformation please explain why that is not a relevant or reliable source, while the blog post of dr Gorski is? The one is from a specialist in this field doing actual research on the subject, while the other is just a doctor with an online following making unsubstantiated claims. Adriaandh ( talk) 14:02, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology
https://web.archive.org/web/20210116010946/https://www.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:BE21:7200:0:0:0:3 ( talk) 08:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
There are a number of articles from legitimate sources, including articles published this month (January 2021) questioning whether Covid-19 may have been an engineered/manipulated virus based on SARS-CoV-2. The conclusion that it was a natural occurring virus has not been conclusively established and stating so seems to be an attempt to stifle inquiry into the subject. I suggest that the tone of the article, and this section in particular be modified.
IAmBecomeDeath ( talk) 08:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The lab leak hypothesis has gained significant attention from government, academic and media organizations, which I have included in a draft for a new entry on the subject. Just in the past few days, a number of media organizations have published articles on the subject, sparked by an exchange reported between US and UK government officials (see here). There are already a number of academic pre-prints from reputed scientists, which I have cited in my draft, so this theory can no longer be considered as "misinformation" and doesn't belong in this article. Some scientists have said that given the lack of evidence for a zoonitic jump over 12 months on, the theory of an accidental lab leak is just as plausible, if not more credible. It is certainly not misinformation, but the subject of academic debate, and ongoing investigation that is likely being blocked by the Chinese government. New York Magazine published a 12,000-word cover story yesterday, in which the author says "Proposing that something unfortunate happened during a scientific experiment in Wuhan — where COVID-19 was first diagnosed and where there are three high-security virology labs, one of which held in its freezers the most comprehensive inventory of sampled bat viruses in the world — isn’t a conspiracy theory. It’s just a theory. It merits attention, I believe, alongside other reasoned attempts to explain the source of our current catastrophe."
ScrupulousScribe ( talk) 11:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
"The Sun and the Daily Mail, and The New York Post (and more recently also Fox News)"← That clinches it. These are all junk sources. Alexbrn ( talk) 14:04, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
"If we were to focus just on this story, these publications are more than sufficient to qualify for Wikipedia:Reliable sources."What is that supposed to mean? WP:RSP lists all three sources as unreliable. Robby.is.on ( talk) 14:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
References
There is no tangible evidence of this "theory", and per Wuhan Institute of Virology#Conspiracy theories, there are serious virologists who refute it as junk. Trying to paste-in chatter and conjecture from sources to support a such "theory" will not work on Wikipedia. I see an equally long dispute and discussion on this subject on the Talk page of the Talk:Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the same points have been made to you, and are not being listened to. At some point, WP:IDHT begins to apply, and with consequences. It is a giant waste of time to try and use Wikipedia as the platform to make a "theory" (especially ones tinged with "conspiracy"), into a "fact". Britishfinance ( talk) 02:59, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
things such as leaks can never be ruled out completely, and when scientists feel compelled to mention it, that mention is just filler, and like Alexbrn, he doesn't address what to do when a whole bunch of mainstream media sources that meet WP:RS give credence to the lab leak theory. As Wikipedians, we don't get to pick what we like from what scientists say, and present as fact what we believe to be so. ScrupulousScribe ( talk) 10:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
I'll just observe that labeling a lab origin as a conspiracy theory seems highly questionable at this point in time (although it was almost certainly appropriate several months ago when the original claims against this were made). You've got peer reviewed papers that point to it as a possibility. You've got Nature explicitly saying that a detailed investigation of that Wuhan laboratories is necessary for us to determine if it is the source. Also, the original claims that lab origin is impossible look exceedingly weak nearly a year later. Some of the most prominent claims boil down to the fact that the virus appears to have its origin in bats. Given that a lab less than a mile from the apparent start of the outbreak was carrying out gain of function research on the closest known natural relatives of COVID-19 (which also came from a bat), this does nothing to refute the possibility that one of the modified viruses escaped the lab. We also now know that there are serious conflicts of interest involving the scientists that rushed to declare a laboratory leak impossible. If anything, I would argue that claims that a laboratory leak can be ruled out are clearly misinformation that was propagated by obviously interested parties before there was sufficient time to study the matter. And yes, the fact that in all the world two laboratories were performing gain of function research on the closest known ancestor of COVID-19 and they are located in the same city where the outbreak occurred seems exceedingly relevant. If this is a coincidence (and it may be) it is a highly improbable coincidence. 72.89.56.239 ( talk) 20:03, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
The U.S. State Department released intelligence yesterday that supports the claim that the coronavirus originated in a lab: [9] Also, former Deputy National Security Advisor Matthew Pottinger (not a "Trump loyalist") stated last month that evidence exists supporting that notion: [10] And it's possible that more information will be released: 1, 2 It's silly to blanket-dismiss the lab origin theory off-hand as merely a "conspiracy theory". -- 1990'sguy ( talk) 22:43, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Going ahead and preemptively plopping this talk section here, regarding harm caused by the vaccine.
We definitely can't have content like "No one has died of [from] the vaccine" without MEDRS. I agree with the sentiment expressed that this section may not be needed at all. This seems to me like the kind of article to have content like the Bill Gates microchip conspiracy theory. Jdphenix ( talk) 21:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Sorry - please bear with me, am new to all this & hope I am contributing in the right bit. I was reading the Covid-19 misinformation section 'Vaccine misinformation' subheading 'infertility' and followed the link to footnote 290: Gorski DH (14 December 2020). "It was inevitable that antivaxxers would claim that COVID-19 vaccines make females infertile' (Science Based Medicine). I wanted to read the original petition that Yeadon & Wodarg wrote with this strange claim. Gorski's article has a link which does not work, to the original 43-page letter/petition. Unfortunately this means that the Wikipedia 'Vaccine misinformation' subheading 'infertility' section cannot be verified until this link is shown to work. I think that, although a detail, it is important to fix this problem, otherwise people who are misinformed may use it as evidence for their case. Thank you. Please redirect me to the correct bit if I have landed in the wrong section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by GalinaGardiner1 ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Vienna1027 is trying to edit war this [11] edit in. This is meant to be an article about misinformation, not one which spreads it! Alexbrn ( talk) 17:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
There are 44.000 Wet Markets in China where the Virus could have emerged, but it was the one right next to that lab. No way in hell that this was pure coincidence. It's scary to see that Wikipedia does not even allows to discuss this as a hypothesis. 2003:C1:4F1D:F55:74C8:CCC2:B7F2:82E6 ( talk) 13:58, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I posted this guide at the top of the article. I think it is a reasonable candidate for media worth profiling. It has Creative Commons licensing, UNESCO has top authority as an organization for speaking on this topic, and so far as I know there are not other proposals for leading media.
This is a high-traffic article and I can imagine many readers wanting even more. This pamphlet is about 16 pages and gives a readable orientation to anyone thinking more about the issue. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 4 February 2021. The result of the move review was retracted. |
The result of the move request was: Move. Mcguy15 ( talk) 22:09, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic → COVID-19 misinformation – The current name is a bit verbose. Per WP:CONCISE, I think it'd be a good idea to shorten it. Thoughts? If this is well received, I may open requested moves for some sub-articles too. Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by governments, Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by the United States, Misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic by China. These are all quite verbose and could be shortened. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 08:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I'm coming in from the article on RNA vaccine where this quote comes from. The issue is that this is an argument that convinces a lot of people who are against the use of the covid-19 vaccines. Can anybody help verify this quote and put it in relation to another quote "The use of RNA vaccines goes back to the early 1990s." Our national TV in Flanders has a topic dedicated on debunking false news on covid-19 and an article on this mRNA issue and there it states (translated from flemish) [1]
References
I am absolutely 0% pro-Trump or pro-Republican (I am Canadian and I support the Liberals), however, I thought that it would violate WP:NPOV to introduce the article by blaming most of the English COVID-19 misinformation on Trump in the lead section, so I removed that sentence from the lead. Let me know if you think there are any issues. Thanks! Félix An ( talk) 16:56, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
A lot of the misinformation was not spread by Trump himself, but by his supporters, as well as Falun Gong, The Epoch Times, etc. Félix An ( talk) 00:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
Respectfully, it's frankly difficult to overstate how absurd it is to call the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis a "debunked conspiracy theory". We simply do not have enough data to determine, with any degree of certainty, the origin of SARS-COV-2. This means one cannot, in good faith, dismiss the hypothesis that SARS-COV-2 was released (not necessarily intentionally, but perhaps accidentally through negligence) from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
The virologists at the Wuhan Institute may have been performing "gain of function" research on some form of the coronavirus -- a common practice which the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy publicly warned against as recently as 2014. [1] Bat-based coronaviruses, and the transmissibility thereof, have previously been the subject of laboratory experiments in China. [2] Prior to the pandemic, U.S. Embassy officials warned about the risks of such infectious disease research being undertaken specifically in Wuhan, China. [3] The veracity of the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis with respect to SARS-COV-2 is presently being investigated by the World Health Organization. [4]
Again, the hypothesis could be true or false. That's the entire point -- the hypothesis is being officially investigated, and we don't yet have enough data to either confirm or refute it. This means it's at least plausible. To refer to the hypothesis, as this entry on Wikipedia does, as a thoroughly debunked "conspiracy theory" is highly disingenuous (and it preemptively shuts down reasonable dialogue which society must have if we want to minimize the odds of history repeating itself).
I respectfully assert that the above-referenced portion of the entry should be reworded or removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:fe20:2390:a51d:4c1c:3842:5a79 ( talk • contribs)
I agree with the above commenters. The only source purporting to "debunk" the theory is, as far as I can tell, just a list of people who disagree with the theory. I'm putting the Template:Failed verification ; Although my opinion would be to remove the section altogether. Yitscar ( talk) 17:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
the lab leak hypothesis is an extremely unlikely pathway for COVID-19 and will not require further study as part of their work in studying the origins of the virus. [12]. Keep an eye out for newspaper articles on this later today. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 15:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Awhile ago one of the authors involved with these papers contacted me but I didn't look too hard since everyone at the time was saying the same thing; however, this Washington Post editorial over the weekend
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/05/coronavirus-origins-mystery-china/?arc404=true
reminded me of the fact there are several peer reviewed papers arguing for the viability of a lab origin that are not mentioned here. When the author first wrote me, he mentioned Wikipedia's clear and inarguable censorship of scientific research, and talked about working with reporters to expose Wikipedia's collusion with the CCCP to suppress the peer reviewed research.
Looking over Wikipedia's guidelines, it is beyond argument that passing peer review is the gold standard for inclusion in a Wikipedia page. Why have all of these articles below been excluded from Wikipedia entirely?
If it is not pressure from the Chinese government, what reason does Wikipedia have for excluding research that has past peer review in sound scientific publications?
These are the papers, in order of publication. They have all been peer reviewed, this is Wikipedia's gold standard, is it not? What is being missed here? I'm going to have the author send the reporters working on stories about Wikipedia doing direct censorship for the Chinese government to this page now, let's see how long it takes for these papers to be added to Wikipedia.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7435492/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jmv.26478
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202000240
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10311-020-01151-1
https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/fvl-2020-0390 Driftwood1300 ( talk) 16:45, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Please link where "other factors" than passing peer review are weighed, where is that in writing? That first paper is then cited by several other of the peer reviewed papers. Lots of peer review, but Wikipedia editors are getting too much money to ignore them or what?
Because that's exactly something someone doing censorship for the CCCP would just make up. Like I just got here, and Wikipedia is not vague: " An appropriate secondary source is one that is published by a reputable publisher, is written by one or more experts in the field, and is peer reviewed."
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources_(science)
Where on that page is your reasoning coming from?
All of those papers I linked have been peer reviewed. They are all published in respected science journals. Do you want to debate whether or not the authors are qualified? Okay, then what are your qualifications Mr. Anonymous Editor?
Right now Wikipedia is very obviously actively censoring the peer reviewed literature. Also the opinion of the Washington Post's Editorial Board? You guys have better judgement than them?
So what exactly are the credentials of the editors who are censoring all of these papers about gain of function research from Wikipedia?
Driftwood1300 ( talk) 17:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Driftwood1300 ( talk) 18:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello friends. COVID-19 lab leak hypothesis was moved out of draftspace today and may need some attention. I've added an NPOV tag, and I've started a talk page discussion. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 07:22, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
<Personal attack removed> Billybostickson ( talk) 09:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The possibility that Covid-19 originated from a Wuhan lab leak is not a "conspriacy theory", it is a scientific hypothesis. See the Cornell University pre-print paper submitted 7 Feb 2021 by several authors here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.03910 (and the 2 papers co-authored by Dr Alina Chan included in its bibliography), and the diverse list of scientists who agree the hypothesis deserves further consideration, published on 6 Feb 2021 in the Daily Telegraph UK newspaper, archived here: https://archive.vn/efmTs. Of note is that the list includes Dr Richard Ebright, who is wrongly included in this "misinformation" article among scientists who have "dismissed" the lab leak theory. On 9 February 2021 one of the authors of the Cornell paper, Yuri Deigin, co-created a wiki page on "Covid 19 lab leak hypothesis", but by 10 February 2021 someone has already edited that page so that it instantly re-directs to this "mis-information" article, which appears wrong for the reasons above. Leo Brennan ( talk) 10:47, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
It would be great if whichever group is sending all these "new editors" to push the anti-conspiracy angle would have them read MEDRS first. A pre-print (not MEDRS) of a primary speculative article (not MEDRS) by a bunch of people with laughably irrelevant, very low, or literally zero scientific credentials (extremely unlikely to be MEDRS)* is just so clearly not going to be accepted by Wikipedia, so why waste everyone's time?
*I mean really, who is going to take this seriously?
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JoelleJay ( talk) 19:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
The lab leak hypothesis should be it's own seperate article. This is because it does not belong in an article about misinformation, since it is a theory about the origin of COVID-19, not a "Conspiracy theory". A conspiracy theory would be that COVID was a plandemic that was manufactured so that the globalist elites can take over the world. however, the "Lab leak hypothesis" is NOT a conspiracy theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.16.166.109 ( talk) 15:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)