![]() | A fact from Brendan Kavanagh appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 29 February 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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I have nominated this article as a DYK here, improved hook suggestions welcome. Crum375 ( talk) 10:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
Crum375 ( talk) 01:10, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate help in finding more and/or better sources for this article. Crum375 ( talk) 00:51, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Not currently mentioned but for possible future use, here is a link to an old and rare video from 1984. Crum375 ( talk) 01:41, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Another video link for future use, this one an interview from the Jo Good show. Crum375 ( talk) 15:36, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
In case anyone happens to notice the mention in multiple sources of Dr K having played for some bands like Dexy’s Midnight Runners, the Jools Holland Big Band, and The Pet Shop Boys, this is plain wrong, according to the subject. He did play for many small North London bands, like Dan Dan Reidy & The Rocking Ballad Boys, in Kilburn, London, as can be seen in this old video, and the link to it is provided in the article. Apparently one source published this wrong info by mistake and others started blindly copying without verifying, so beware. Crum375 ( talk) 02:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Someone added some material to the article without citing a single source. Although everything that person added is probably correct, everything in WP must be well sourced, per WP:NOR and WP:RS. Even what's in the article so far is not perfectly sourced (i.e. from reliable third party secondary sources), so if you want to help (the article is currently being considered for DYK), it would great if you can find more reliable sources. There is lots of material that can be added, but WP's rules require only well sourced material. Also, regarding this specific item, when the article is this short it doesn't make sense to expand one aspect (e.g. different disguises) too much, since it seems out of balance with the rest. Crum375 ( talk) 03:49, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Someone added an external link describing an individual's impression of Dr K in a Spanish PDF which I removed for now. Please read the WP:PSTS, WP:EL and WP:RS guidelines. In general, we want the EL list to be as short as possible, essentially only items that can't be part of a normal reference. In this case, although the author's reaction to Dr K is understandable and common, having a dissertation about it in a foreign language PDF file is not a reliable source (note that WP normally expects "secondary sources" whereas this would be a "primary source"), nor easily accessible to the average reader. I am considering upgrading this article to Good Article status once we have sufficient quality sources, so the trick should be to find the sources that can survive a typical Good Article review process (which would emphasize secondary vs. primary sources). Again, the issue is not "correctness" or "factuality", but whether the added material conforms to WP's sourcing policies and also whether the article is easy to read and well balanced. Crum375 ( talk) 14:47, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Since there are many German fans, I'd like to just copy/paste this article into German Wikipedia and translate it. Is this possible or can somebody help me with that? -Alex -- 5.61.154.90 ( talk) 16:15, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I have removed an addition of an unsourced birth month by an IP. I see two separate issues regarding DOB on BLPs. First you need a reliable secondary source. Second, there is no reason that I can see why we need more specificity than a birth year for a BLP. Given today's identity theft crisis, and the fact that any BLP article on WP is already problematic to the subject, adding even more information about the exact DOB would only create more problems, without adding anything significantly useful to the reader. Crum375 ( talk) 22:20, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I just wanted to mentioned how overjoyed my heart became when I saw Nelly Ben-Or get a mention on the Did You Know section today!!! :) :) :) 49.185.10.210 ( talk) 04:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I had to remove a ton of content because it was sourced to crowdshared sites. Please let's talk before adding it back in unless we can find reliable sources. --valereee ( talk) 19:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
![]() | Internet culture | |||||||||||||
|
In the current version of the article, the religious affiliation of St Aloysius' College is noted.
− | Kavanagh attended [[St Aloysius' College, Highgate|St Aloysius' | + | Kavanagh attended the catholic [[St Aloysius' College, Highgate|St Aloysius' College, in Highgate,]] from 1978 onwards.
|
It is not clear to me why this is relevant to note. In a biography, we do not normally point out a school's religious affiliation when just linking to a school unless it is especially relevant to do so in context. The religious affiliation is already covered at the beginning of the lead sentence for the article about the school, so any users who are curious do not have far to go to learn the religious affiliation.
Perhaps there is some special relevance I failed to appreciate, so I invite editors to comment on whether or not they find it relevant. For those who do find it relevant please provide an explanation. Note well that per WP:ONUS (emphasis added):
While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.
Courtesy ping @ Jaymailsays. Thank you. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 22:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
not all verifiable information must be included. Just because he said it, does not mean we should include it. We do not repeat every utterance of the subject of a biography. We exercise editorial judgement as to whether it is relevant in the context to include a claim. So, other than the fact that he said it, what additional reasons are there for including it? — Archer1234 ( t· c) 00:22, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I made significant changes to the YouTube portion of the infobox and want to explain what the changes are and why I made them so that editors are aware.
|subscribers=
parameter was removed from the infobox in this article. {{
Infobox YouTube personality}} is already set up and configured to pull subscriber data from Wikidata when the |subscribers=
parameter is not present or has no assigned value. Wikidata has a bot that periodically updates the subscriber count for YouTube channels. The update is done for each channel when there is a 10% change in the number of subscribers or when |view_date=
is added. The number of views is not automatically updated and displayed, so |views=
is still needed and needs to be set manually. Use |view_date=
to set the date for the latest view count. N.B., the date should be month and year only; no day per {{
Infobox YouTube personality}} documentation.|stats_update=
is removed. Since the automatic display of subscribe counts will include a date that is or can be different than the date for view counts, the |stats_update=
is no longer applicable (and is arguably confusing when the dates for both the subscriber count and views count differ). Each count (subscribers and views) have their own dates displayed, so it should be clear what the "as of" dates are.|channel_direct_url=
to the new channel ID.If there are any questions or concerns, this is the place to raise them. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 15:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Appears biased 121.244.54.200 ( talk) 17:20, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Pan-Blue Taiwanese broadsheet newspaper. That should make it clearer who is doing the reporting. If there are any reliable sources that call into question that report, then it is probably worth noting those. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 17:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
These IPS are all the same user who has been edit warring over an unreliable source [4]. You can see here that they keep restoring this same source on multiple IPs [5], even though myself and two other users have removed this source because it us unreliable, for example [6], [7]. I see this IP has been doing this for 4 days. The IP is also leaving false edit summaries telling others not to remove this source without discussing when the source has been mentioned on this talk-page.
This IP is ignoring consensus. 3 users have removed this source. They have no consensus to repeatedly add it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 05:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
And as an anon editor my ISP randomly changes my IP address every time I try to edit Wikipedia. I don't know why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.17.184.33 ( talk) 07:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
A wp:editwaris still a violation of wp:3rr, not matter how many IP's you get. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:26, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Odd there is a npov discussion and I am sure Dustfreeworld has said it is not an RS. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:47, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Someone is not happy about this:
Any objections for adding these 2 statements? Toto11zi ( talk) 01:11, 4 February 2024 (UTC) Toto11zi ( talk) 01:11, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. You are combining material on specific laws, with material on specific circumstances, to support a conclusion that those specific laws apply in those specific circumstances. This is exactly what the policy forbids. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 02:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
References
Can you please explain why you said they are factually incorrect? Ping @ Jaymailsays 内存溢出的猫 ( talk) 13:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
There is some disagreement about whether to refer to the subject of this article as "Kavanagh" or "Dr. K". I am opening this discussion to encourage editors to share their views, especially those based on Wikipedia policies or guidelines. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 16:12, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from Brendan Kavanagh appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 29 February 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
I have nominated this article as a DYK here, improved hook suggestions welcome. Crum375 ( talk) 10:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
Crum375 ( talk) 01:10, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
I would appreciate help in finding more and/or better sources for this article. Crum375 ( talk) 00:51, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Not currently mentioned but for possible future use, here is a link to an old and rare video from 1984. Crum375 ( talk) 01:41, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Another video link for future use, this one an interview from the Jo Good show. Crum375 ( talk) 15:36, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
In case anyone happens to notice the mention in multiple sources of Dr K having played for some bands like Dexy’s Midnight Runners, the Jools Holland Big Band, and The Pet Shop Boys, this is plain wrong, according to the subject. He did play for many small North London bands, like Dan Dan Reidy & The Rocking Ballad Boys, in Kilburn, London, as can be seen in this old video, and the link to it is provided in the article. Apparently one source published this wrong info by mistake and others started blindly copying without verifying, so beware. Crum375 ( talk) 02:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Someone added some material to the article without citing a single source. Although everything that person added is probably correct, everything in WP must be well sourced, per WP:NOR and WP:RS. Even what's in the article so far is not perfectly sourced (i.e. from reliable third party secondary sources), so if you want to help (the article is currently being considered for DYK), it would great if you can find more reliable sources. There is lots of material that can be added, but WP's rules require only well sourced material. Also, regarding this specific item, when the article is this short it doesn't make sense to expand one aspect (e.g. different disguises) too much, since it seems out of balance with the rest. Crum375 ( talk) 03:49, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Someone added an external link describing an individual's impression of Dr K in a Spanish PDF which I removed for now. Please read the WP:PSTS, WP:EL and WP:RS guidelines. In general, we want the EL list to be as short as possible, essentially only items that can't be part of a normal reference. In this case, although the author's reaction to Dr K is understandable and common, having a dissertation about it in a foreign language PDF file is not a reliable source (note that WP normally expects "secondary sources" whereas this would be a "primary source"), nor easily accessible to the average reader. I am considering upgrading this article to Good Article status once we have sufficient quality sources, so the trick should be to find the sources that can survive a typical Good Article review process (which would emphasize secondary vs. primary sources). Again, the issue is not "correctness" or "factuality", but whether the added material conforms to WP's sourcing policies and also whether the article is easy to read and well balanced. Crum375 ( talk) 14:47, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Since there are many German fans, I'd like to just copy/paste this article into German Wikipedia and translate it. Is this possible or can somebody help me with that? -Alex -- 5.61.154.90 ( talk) 16:15, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I have removed an addition of an unsourced birth month by an IP. I see two separate issues regarding DOB on BLPs. First you need a reliable secondary source. Second, there is no reason that I can see why we need more specificity than a birth year for a BLP. Given today's identity theft crisis, and the fact that any BLP article on WP is already problematic to the subject, adding even more information about the exact DOB would only create more problems, without adding anything significantly useful to the reader. Crum375 ( talk) 22:20, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I just wanted to mentioned how overjoyed my heart became when I saw Nelly Ben-Or get a mention on the Did You Know section today!!! :) :) :) 49.185.10.210 ( talk) 04:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I had to remove a ton of content because it was sourced to crowdshared sites. Please let's talk before adding it back in unless we can find reliable sources. --valereee ( talk) 19:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:07, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
![]() | Internet culture | |||||||||||||
|
In the current version of the article, the religious affiliation of St Aloysius' College is noted.
− | Kavanagh attended [[St Aloysius' College, Highgate|St Aloysius' | + | Kavanagh attended the catholic [[St Aloysius' College, Highgate|St Aloysius' College, in Highgate,]] from 1978 onwards.
|
It is not clear to me why this is relevant to note. In a biography, we do not normally point out a school's religious affiliation when just linking to a school unless it is especially relevant to do so in context. The religious affiliation is already covered at the beginning of the lead sentence for the article about the school, so any users who are curious do not have far to go to learn the religious affiliation.
Perhaps there is some special relevance I failed to appreciate, so I invite editors to comment on whether or not they find it relevant. For those who do find it relevant please provide an explanation. Note well that per WP:ONUS (emphasis added):
While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.
Courtesy ping @ Jaymailsays. Thank you. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 22:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
not all verifiable information must be included. Just because he said it, does not mean we should include it. We do not repeat every utterance of the subject of a biography. We exercise editorial judgement as to whether it is relevant in the context to include a claim. So, other than the fact that he said it, what additional reasons are there for including it? — Archer1234 ( t· c) 00:22, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I made significant changes to the YouTube portion of the infobox and want to explain what the changes are and why I made them so that editors are aware.
|subscribers=
parameter was removed from the infobox in this article. {{
Infobox YouTube personality}} is already set up and configured to pull subscriber data from Wikidata when the |subscribers=
parameter is not present or has no assigned value. Wikidata has a bot that periodically updates the subscriber count for YouTube channels. The update is done for each channel when there is a 10% change in the number of subscribers or when |view_date=
is added. The number of views is not automatically updated and displayed, so |views=
is still needed and needs to be set manually. Use |view_date=
to set the date for the latest view count. N.B., the date should be month and year only; no day per {{
Infobox YouTube personality}} documentation.|stats_update=
is removed. Since the automatic display of subscribe counts will include a date that is or can be different than the date for view counts, the |stats_update=
is no longer applicable (and is arguably confusing when the dates for both the subscriber count and views count differ). Each count (subscribers and views) have their own dates displayed, so it should be clear what the "as of" dates are.|channel_direct_url=
to the new channel ID.If there are any questions or concerns, this is the place to raise them. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 15:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Appears biased 121.244.54.200 ( talk) 17:20, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Pan-Blue Taiwanese broadsheet newspaper. That should make it clearer who is doing the reporting. If there are any reliable sources that call into question that report, then it is probably worth noting those. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 17:44, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
These IPS are all the same user who has been edit warring over an unreliable source [4]. You can see here that they keep restoring this same source on multiple IPs [5], even though myself and two other users have removed this source because it us unreliable, for example [6], [7]. I see this IP has been doing this for 4 days. The IP is also leaving false edit summaries telling others not to remove this source without discussing when the source has been mentioned on this talk-page.
This IP is ignoring consensus. 3 users have removed this source. They have no consensus to repeatedly add it. Psychologist Guy ( talk) 05:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
And as an anon editor my ISP randomly changes my IP address every time I try to edit Wikipedia. I don't know why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.17.184.33 ( talk) 07:53, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
A wp:editwaris still a violation of wp:3rr, not matter how many IP's you get. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:26, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Odd there is a npov discussion and I am sure Dustfreeworld has said it is not an RS. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:47, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Someone is not happy about this:
Any objections for adding these 2 statements? Toto11zi ( talk) 01:11, 4 February 2024 (UTC) Toto11zi ( talk) 01:11, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. You are combining material on specific laws, with material on specific circumstances, to support a conclusion that those specific laws apply in those specific circumstances. This is exactly what the policy forbids. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 02:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
References
Can you please explain why you said they are factually incorrect? Ping @ Jaymailsays 内存溢出的猫 ( talk) 13:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
There is some disagreement about whether to refer to the subject of this article as "Kavanagh" or "Dr. K". I am opening this discussion to encourage editors to share their views, especially those based on Wikipedia policies or guidelines. — Archer1234 ( t· c) 16:12, 25 February 2024 (UTC)