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the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
Black Swan (BTS song) → Black Swan (song), Moved, see
Discussion
Black Swan (song) → Black Swan (BTS song), Not moved, see
Discussion
Requested move 14 February 2020
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As seen below (comments earlier than this comment's following timestamp), this request already had a few comments declaring it controversial. However, I will be participating in this discussion...
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:22, 14 February 2020 (UTC)reply
I concur with
kingboyk above. I'm looking through the "Black Swan" songs and, with none of them standing out, I'm not sure we have a
primary topic, so my preference would be to see this discussed on the talk page of either ofthe dab pageor
the proposed target, with notifications to each of the appropriate "Black Swan" talk pages.
RfD is probably not equipped to decide on which is the primary topic (if any).
Doug MehusT·C16:45, 14 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose per culture, books and common sense I know that song editors don't want the names of artists on songs, I know that song editors had that RfC. However in some cases common sense rather than the Law should be applied.
click here and see why. The Korean-language song doesn't even include the term "black swan" in the lyrics.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
16:22, 16 February 2020 (UTC)reply
@
In ictu oculi:Your argument is otherwise valid, but the fact that "black swan" is never mentioned in the lyrics is irrelevant when it's the title of the song. I mean, the titular phrase isn't uttered once in "
Bohemian Rhapsody" yet it's still an obvious primary topic...
ⓋᎯ☧ǿᖇǥ@ℤε💬10:21, 18 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Support since it is the only "Black Swan" song with an article. A hat note to the disambiguation article should be helpful for anyone looking for other "Black Swan" songs.
Aoba47 (
talk)
18:24, 19 February 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Are you sure Pdogg and RM weren't credited under their real names as songwriters?
Kyle Peake, credits on South Korea's largest music platform
Melonhere cite them as Pdogg and RM, however like you said, Korea Music Copyright Association (KOMCA) credits writers using their formal rather than stage names. So should I change to their real names in the infobox keeping the lead fixed?
Are you sure the UK and US chart positions are notable since they weren't top 40? Maybe replace with higher ones like NZ and Scotland or something?
Kyle Peake, while its not uncommon for an artist to chart in UK and US, its quite rare for acts who sing primarily in Korean so personally I think this should be kept.
Change "the group's" to "the band's", target music critics to
Music journalism and target trap to
Trap music, plus can you mention anything about the composition of this pre-bridge section maybe? --
Kyle Peake (
talk)
11:02, 6 June 2020 (UTC) Done Except none of the sources mention anything specifically about the composition of pre-bridge.reply
Kyle Peake, two quick questions: 1) Should I just need to edit the timed text tab of the File page (the third tab that appears when I click on the name of the audio file) and add the contents of the srt file that I would create? 2) Should the subtitles be added in (i)
Hangul or (ii) only translations in English should be included for the entire sample? --
Ashleyyoursmile!18:10, 6 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake, Clarification- The sample contains lyrics in Korean and English, so while editing the timed text tab, should like simply proceed by selecting "Korean" as language and press Go? I'm confused as to how the english text will be dealt with though. --
Ashleyyoursmile!07:50, 7 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake, Yes I have noticed that but not sure why that's happening. The text format seems okay to me. Also the problem starts at line 6, if you notice the span of this particular line is 106 milliseconds, so it barely gets any time to flash on the screen. Any thoughts? I think I need help with this issue. --
Ashleyyoursmile!17:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Expand from "A 30-second sample of "Black Swan."" by adding more info about the part of the song sampled that is written out elsewhere in this section too, using citations to back it up of course Done
[13][14] should both be at the end of the sentence Done
Remove wikilink to Instrumental as it's too obvious Done
Again, is "catchy hook" really encyclopedic? Done
[13][15] should both be at the end of the sentence directly before [16] Done
"regarded it as BTS'" → "regarded the song as BTS'" Done
"since the group's 2018 song "Fake Love", adding" → "since "Fake Love" in 2018, adding" since we've already introduced it as their single but can re-mention the release year because this is a new section Done
"most raw and unflinching"," → "most raw and unflinching,"" Done
Do not need full identification of what type of magazine IZM is; just keep its name and that of the author Done
"and number nine on the" → "and number 9 on the" Done
[54][55][56][57][58][59] should not all be crammed together like that, place each one after the chart entry it backs up; "Australia,[54]" for example Done
Music videos
Art film
Img needs alt text Done
On the main text, wikilink
art film to itself Done
"An accompanying music video for "Black Swan" was" → "A
music video for "Black Swan" was" with the appropriate wikilink Done
Remove Grammy sentence since that is not relevant to the song whatsoever Done
"dance crew CDK. Those performances "had" → "dance crew CDK, which "had" Done
"the group was barefoot" → "the band members were barefoot" Done
"which made it look like" → "that made it look like" Done
Remove wikilink on Stereogum Done
"lauded the group's" → "lauded the band's" Done
"performances" writing, "one" → "performances" and wrote, "one" Done
Merge second para with the first Done
"the group performed" → "BTS performed" Done
[89][90][91] should all be at the end of the sentence instead Done
Track listing
Streaming should not have any capitalisation Done
Credits and personnel
Use {{
spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel Done
A col should be used for separation here since it is quite long Done
Awards
This should be a sub-section in Reception section Done
Also invoke the table's ref at the end of the sole sentence here Done
Charts
Weekly charts
Move that Australia ref solely to the mention of that chart position in Commercial performance and cite in here from the single chart template Done
Cite for France using the single chart template here too Done
Monthly charts
Good
Release history
Country → Region Done
Use bullet points to separate the two different release formats Done
Only one ref should be included here; I think ref 7, since that supports the info cited in this table Done
See also
Good
Notes
The a should not be capitalised for the note Done
References
Looks like you've done a good job of archiving, just run the tool again to check all refs have been archived
Copyvio score looks good, is at 43.2% but that's for a source not used in this article
Change New York magazine to Vulture on ref 2; italicisation represents work/website parameter in all cases I have listed under here, do not actually apply italicisation to this parameter Done
Names for refs 3, 13, 28, 33, 66, 78, 89, 90 and 91 are the wrong way around Done
Refs 17, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 81 are unreliable per
WP:RSP and either replace or remove the backed up info from everywhere in the article Done removed and replaced at suitable places
Cite Musicstax as publisher instead on ref 21 and remove it from the title Done
Delete ref 22 since Spotify should not be cited; you can use the iTunes ref to back up that info in the body instead Done
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Will we be adding this somewhere in the prose of the article? While single vendors are not included in Chart sections, allowance is made for including their mention in the body of an article if a significant record is set or broken on a particular platform. Black Swan broke the record for most itunes #1's with 103 (then soon after 104), surpassing the record previously held by Adele with 102. --
Carlobunnie (
talk)
17:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Requested move 9 September 2020
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I had to make those redirects because when I searched them up, they didn't redirect to their primary page. Seventyfiveyears (
talk)
23:46, 9 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Neutral. First
WP:SONGDAB is wrong. It is a local consensus of pop song editors against
WP:TITLE. SONGDAB takes the view that we disambiguate by articles not content, which we don't, although some editors believe that we do. It's a handy rule for pop songs, because pop songs generally exist as standalone articles, but
WP:SONGDAB does not apply when a song is part of a musical, where a number in a musical may be exponentially more notable than a pop song standalone. In this particular case though the sole number from Menotti's opera
Black Swan (The Medium) /
Black Swan (Menotti) can be served by redirects.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
17:21, 10 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Black Swan #6 on Insider's 30 best songs of 2020 list
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and contribute to the
discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of
hip hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Hip hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip hopHip hop articles
This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
Black Swan (BTS song) → Black Swan (song), Moved, see
Discussion
Black Swan (song) → Black Swan (BTS song), Not moved, see
Discussion
Requested move 14 February 2020
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
As seen below (comments earlier than this comment's following timestamp), this request already had a few comments declaring it controversial. However, I will be participating in this discussion...
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:22, 14 February 2020 (UTC)reply
I concur with
kingboyk above. I'm looking through the "Black Swan" songs and, with none of them standing out, I'm not sure we have a
primary topic, so my preference would be to see this discussed on the talk page of either ofthe dab pageor
the proposed target, with notifications to each of the appropriate "Black Swan" talk pages.
RfD is probably not equipped to decide on which is the primary topic (if any).
Doug MehusT·C16:45, 14 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Oppose per culture, books and common sense I know that song editors don't want the names of artists on songs, I know that song editors had that RfC. However in some cases common sense rather than the Law should be applied.
click here and see why. The Korean-language song doesn't even include the term "black swan" in the lyrics.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
16:22, 16 February 2020 (UTC)reply
@
In ictu oculi:Your argument is otherwise valid, but the fact that "black swan" is never mentioned in the lyrics is irrelevant when it's the title of the song. I mean, the titular phrase isn't uttered once in "
Bohemian Rhapsody" yet it's still an obvious primary topic...
ⓋᎯ☧ǿᖇǥ@ℤε💬10:21, 18 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Support since it is the only "Black Swan" song with an article. A hat note to the disambiguation article should be helpful for anyone looking for other "Black Swan" songs.
Aoba47 (
talk)
18:24, 19 February 2020 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Are you sure Pdogg and RM weren't credited under their real names as songwriters?
Kyle Peake, credits on South Korea's largest music platform
Melonhere cite them as Pdogg and RM, however like you said, Korea Music Copyright Association (KOMCA) credits writers using their formal rather than stage names. So should I change to their real names in the infobox keeping the lead fixed?
Are you sure the UK and US chart positions are notable since they weren't top 40? Maybe replace with higher ones like NZ and Scotland or something?
Kyle Peake, while its not uncommon for an artist to chart in UK and US, its quite rare for acts who sing primarily in Korean so personally I think this should be kept.
Change "the group's" to "the band's", target music critics to
Music journalism and target trap to
Trap music, plus can you mention anything about the composition of this pre-bridge section maybe? --
Kyle Peake (
talk)
11:02, 6 June 2020 (UTC) Done Except none of the sources mention anything specifically about the composition of pre-bridge.reply
Kyle Peake, two quick questions: 1) Should I just need to edit the timed text tab of the File page (the third tab that appears when I click on the name of the audio file) and add the contents of the srt file that I would create? 2) Should the subtitles be added in (i)
Hangul or (ii) only translations in English should be included for the entire sample? --
Ashleyyoursmile!18:10, 6 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake, Clarification- The sample contains lyrics in Korean and English, so while editing the timed text tab, should like simply proceed by selecting "Korean" as language and press Go? I'm confused as to how the english text will be dealt with though. --
Ashleyyoursmile!07:50, 7 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake, Yes I have noticed that but not sure why that's happening. The text format seems okay to me. Also the problem starts at line 6, if you notice the span of this particular line is 106 milliseconds, so it barely gets any time to flash on the screen. Any thoughts? I think I need help with this issue. --
Ashleyyoursmile!17:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Expand from "A 30-second sample of "Black Swan."" by adding more info about the part of the song sampled that is written out elsewhere in this section too, using citations to back it up of course Done
[13][14] should both be at the end of the sentence Done
Remove wikilink to Instrumental as it's too obvious Done
Again, is "catchy hook" really encyclopedic? Done
[13][15] should both be at the end of the sentence directly before [16] Done
"regarded it as BTS'" → "regarded the song as BTS'" Done
"since the group's 2018 song "Fake Love", adding" → "since "Fake Love" in 2018, adding" since we've already introduced it as their single but can re-mention the release year because this is a new section Done
"most raw and unflinching"," → "most raw and unflinching,"" Done
Do not need full identification of what type of magazine IZM is; just keep its name and that of the author Done
"and number nine on the" → "and number 9 on the" Done
[54][55][56][57][58][59] should not all be crammed together like that, place each one after the chart entry it backs up; "Australia,[54]" for example Done
Music videos
Art film
Img needs alt text Done
On the main text, wikilink
art film to itself Done
"An accompanying music video for "Black Swan" was" → "A
music video for "Black Swan" was" with the appropriate wikilink Done
Remove Grammy sentence since that is not relevant to the song whatsoever Done
"dance crew CDK. Those performances "had" → "dance crew CDK, which "had" Done
"the group was barefoot" → "the band members were barefoot" Done
"which made it look like" → "that made it look like" Done
Remove wikilink on Stereogum Done
"lauded the group's" → "lauded the band's" Done
"performances" writing, "one" → "performances" and wrote, "one" Done
Merge second para with the first Done
"the group performed" → "BTS performed" Done
[89][90][91] should all be at the end of the sentence instead Done
Track listing
Streaming should not have any capitalisation Done
Credits and personnel
Use {{
spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel Done
A col should be used for separation here since it is quite long Done
Awards
This should be a sub-section in Reception section Done
Also invoke the table's ref at the end of the sole sentence here Done
Charts
Weekly charts
Move that Australia ref solely to the mention of that chart position in Commercial performance and cite in here from the single chart template Done
Cite for France using the single chart template here too Done
Monthly charts
Good
Release history
Country → Region Done
Use bullet points to separate the two different release formats Done
Only one ref should be included here; I think ref 7, since that supports the info cited in this table Done
See also
Good
Notes
The a should not be capitalised for the note Done
References
Looks like you've done a good job of archiving, just run the tool again to check all refs have been archived
Copyvio score looks good, is at 43.2% but that's for a source not used in this article
Change New York magazine to Vulture on ref 2; italicisation represents work/website parameter in all cases I have listed under here, do not actually apply italicisation to this parameter Done
Names for refs 3, 13, 28, 33, 66, 78, 89, 90 and 91 are the wrong way around Done
Refs 17, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 81 are unreliable per
WP:RSP and either replace or remove the backed up info from everywhere in the article Done removed and replaced at suitable places
Cite Musicstax as publisher instead on ref 21 and remove it from the title Done
Delete ref 22 since Spotify should not be cited; you can use the iTunes ref to back up that info in the body instead Done
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Will we be adding this somewhere in the prose of the article? While single vendors are not included in Chart sections, allowance is made for including their mention in the body of an article if a significant record is set or broken on a particular platform. Black Swan broke the record for most itunes #1's with 103 (then soon after 104), surpassing the record previously held by Adele with 102. --
Carlobunnie (
talk)
17:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Requested move 9 September 2020
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I had to make those redirects because when I searched them up, they didn't redirect to their primary page. Seventyfiveyears (
talk)
23:46, 9 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Neutral. First
WP:SONGDAB is wrong. It is a local consensus of pop song editors against
WP:TITLE. SONGDAB takes the view that we disambiguate by articles not content, which we don't, although some editors believe that we do. It's a handy rule for pop songs, because pop songs generally exist as standalone articles, but
WP:SONGDAB does not apply when a song is part of a musical, where a number in a musical may be exponentially more notable than a pop song standalone. In this particular case though the sole number from Menotti's opera
Black Swan (The Medium) /
Black Swan (Menotti) can be served by redirects.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
17:21, 10 September 2020 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Black Swan #6 on Insider's 30 best songs of 2020 list