This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality" to "advocating for violence in protest against incidents of police brutality". Specifically, remove "non-violent civil disobedience" from phrase, and add "violence" in its place in the phrase. [1] Mathew8980 ( talk) 10:26, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
I saw some online articles about Black Lives Matter being Marxist/communist. I'm not too interested in the subject to do further research, but I was wondering if it appeared in this article or if it wasn't notable enough.
Also, sorry to stray from my original question, but isn't "torch-wielding alt-right protesters" a little too antagonistic even with knowledge of who they are? "alt-right protesters" or something along those lines would be better in my opinion (I partially agree with the editor who wrote "Wiki's job to promote BLM?"). FredModulars ( talk) 09:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk.
Woah! A simple search on that quote reveals some significant reliable secondary sources verifying it, and demonstrating it's notability. It appears to be obviously not just a conspiracy-theory or right-wing propaganda thing. How tightly and how high up the sayer is connected to BLM should be looked into, which I haven't yet done, as should other factors of veracity. But, if she and her other "Marxist" co-founder are significant players then the matter would be very notable and includable. It would be important to introduce in a careful, dry, well-supported, and encyclopedic manner of course, but so far the matter appears to be very supported and very
WP:DUE.
142.105.159.178 (
talk) 23:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
then the inclusion of the matter on the BLM page becomes essential.
User:HandThatFeeds, Above you pointed to some kind of debate you've-all had that's in the Archives. There's a lot of stuff in the Archives. I'm not quite clear what you were referring to. Could you point it out specifically? It'd be easier if important stuff like that wasn't archived so quickly, which seems to be a thing here for some reason. Really, if nobody can see such big important decisions to verify them and their context, they can't be considered to have any weight. Make sense? If it's in the Archives, then it must have been decided that it's no longer material, or at least it gives that strong impression. A better way might to roll them up with a Template:Collapse, or something. 142.105.159.178 ( talk) 04:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
Wow, this page reads 100% like a advocacy piece for BLM. In fact, I doubt that the BLM organization would have written it much differently. Even every single paragraph in the criticism section ends with a note that somehow rebuts that criticism. Heck, the wiki page on Mother Theresa has more hard criticism than this page. Look at the lead paragraph as of right now:
"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people."
Compare this, for just one example, to the lead paragraph on the page for the Proud Boys:
"The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist and male-only political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada. While the group claims to reject racism, several members have been affiliated with white supremacy"
If that is the standard, then the opening here would read like this (of course I would include citations):
"Black Lives Matter is a far-left, Marxist political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada. While the group claims to reject violence, several members have been affiliated with violent acts"
Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far, but it's clear this page isn't NPOV. Any ideas for improving the page in that direction, before I do it myself? 96.241.129.33 ( talk) 17:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
What is our standard for determining what can be part of statements like "Black Lives Matter calls for...", "Black Lives Matter supports...", "Black Lives Matter advocates..."
I believe the answer is, "things that people who say 'Black Lives Matter' believe". In light of that, it might be better to get rid of sentences that don't follow this rule or properly attribute them to their source. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 04:35, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
How can BLM be labeled peaceful when most have resulted in riots & looting? Plus in several cases murder or assault? PissedOffMeMa ( talk) 19:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the article claims to be decentralized. However, there is a recent Economist article which contradicts this.
Another change, the restructuring of BLM, could turn out to be just as significant: power is to be centralised. Ms Cullors has stood up to the boss of BLM's Global Network Foundation, which she calls the "umbrella organisation" for the whole movement. In taking responsibility, as she says, for the "onus of our successes and failures", she appears to be claiming leadership of the once leaderless movement.
That is because the foundation will control funds, dishing them out to officially recognised BLM city chapters through another new body called BLM Grassroots. The foundation is also moving away from doing mostly on-the-ground work. ... In October a BLM political-action committee was launched, to "bring the power of our movement from the streets to the ballot box".
This article suggests that the main meaning of Black Lives Matter refers to the organization, with defined leadership, and which is being centralized. Given that the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is described as the "umbrella organisation", its significance should be directly noted. Furthermore, the article for Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation also calls it decentralised, which does not match with the Economist article, so that should be changed too. — Naddruf ( talk ~ contribs) 17:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
References
"Black Lives Matter" is a commonly used phrase in protests and other events not organized by any Black Lives Matter organizations. It has an interesting and long history, varied usage, and is associated with a number of different beliefs. Many of the 15 million protestors who use the phrase are unaware of and unaffiliated with the organizations.
A good comparison is Hands up, don't shoot, All Cops Are Bastards, or Defund the police.
I propose separate articles for the organizations and the slogan.
Another comparison is Teetotalism, Temperance movement, and American Temperance Society. I'm open to many different ways to split things up, but it's odd that a single article covers the "Financial transparency issues" of these organizations and policing in the United States in general. This would resolve questions like, "Black Lives Matter being Marxist/communist" (above) or "does Black Lives Matter advocate/condemn violence?"
This would resolve a lot of issues around what the movement "stands for". The phrase is a symbol, which can stand for many things.
If we don't do this, we should definitely get rid of sentences like "Black Lives Matter called to defund the police..." and "Black Lives Matter organized..." A slogan associated with varied beliefs can't "call to" do something. As an example, most organizations that have said "Black Lives Matter" probably wouldn't say "Defund the Police". DenverCoder9 ( talk) 02:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
If so, how can "Black Lives Matter" act as a noun?
"Civil disobedience" means breaking laws or regulations of a government. Not all 15 million supporters of BLM support breaking laws. What BLM does oppose is racially motivated violence, etc.
Most major companies, including Bank of America, have come out in support of BLM. Bank of America does not advocate breaking laws.
The only mention of "civil disobedience" in the body is when an organization in Denmark that uses the phrase "BLM" broke financial transparency laws. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Q746371 ( talk • contribs) 04:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
It could be possible that that BLM organisation in Denmark might be unrelated to this articles BOM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.180.90 ( talk) 16:29, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Editor added section about a false accusation of financial impropriety. Per WP:DUE, disagree that this is notable enough to merit mention. Open to different opinions. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 01:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect We Believe (yard sign). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 January 13#We Believe (yard sign) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 12:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I noticed some back-and-forth over polling in the lead with regards to what polls to include and why. But... the real takeaway here is that we should avoid using primary sources for polling, since doing so inevitably carries assumptions and ends up leading the reader to a specific conclusion that the polls themselves might not support. Can we find some secondary sources discussing public opinion to replace the cites to Pew? Those tend to provide more interpretation and analysis and let us avoid problems of eg. "are we comparing apples and oranges" or the like. -- Aquillion ( talk) 22:47, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
There was a claim that "Effects on Crime" is a synthesis. In the spirit of BRD, opening a talk page.
Note that WaPo and the star tribune draw direct lines to the timing of the violence (I'm not going to use the word "riot", and I don't think we should either). I'm a supporter of BLM as well, but it wouldn't be charitable to critics of BLM not to include the claim that the protests allegedly enabled violence.
More important than what happened in June, we should certainly include discussion of the long-term policy effects of the movement. I've been trying to write up positive effects for the rest of the article, but I wrote the criticism-specific ones first. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 01:28, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
I can't see any reason or precedent for the movement getting a Nobel Peace Prize nomination being in any way notable for a standalone sentence in the lead, or to be noted in the lead at all. It isn't discussed extensively in the body which the lead is supposed to be a summary for, and thousands of people, things and movements get nominated for the peace prize every year. There's literally no limit, anyone can nominate anyone else or anything for the prize! And I don't see any consistency with nominations being lead worthy amongst other 2021 peace prize nominees such as Alexei Navalny, the Hong Kong Free Press, the WHO and Donald Trump, who's recieved 3! If the movement wins it or comes runner up or something otherwise notable and distinguishing amongst the thousands of nominees, I'm all for including it, but unless we are gonna start freely noting every single person, thing or movement to ever recieve nobel peace prize nominations in their leads, it should and has to be removed here. Davefelmer ( talk) 22:45, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Personally I don’t think simple nominations are due weight for an article unless they are extraordinary in their own right. There are, quite literally, thousands of people who can nominate as many people/things as they want for a prize - just as a comparison, Donald Trump got at least three nominations for the Peace Prize (that I recall, may have been more). -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 04:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
'Amongst' is decidedly rare in US usage. 'Among' should replace it in this article. 37.99.33.37 ( talk) 06:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Black Lives Matter-themed signs was a POVFORK and does not seem notable enough. SpacetimeIsCool ( talk ∙ contribs) 02:20, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
A recent study found that police killings decrease in places where there are BLM protests. Where should this be added the the article? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/killings-by-police-declined-after-black-lives-matter-protests1/ X-Editor ( talk) 01:21, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"According to The Washington Post, police officers shot and killed 1,001 people in the United States in 2019. About half of those killed were white, and one quarter were black, making the rate of deaths for black Americans (31 fatal shootings per million) more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans (13 fatal shootings per million)."
Is this math not incorrect? If 1000 people were killed and half(500) were white and one quarter (250) were black that means twice as many white people were killed. Not the other way around. 12.152.125.40 ( talk) 13:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Generalrelative:, I see you reverted back. Just so you're, I would like to make sure you're aware that ADL has been overseeing edits, by at least 8 different accounts that have been systematically adding their own publications into numerous heavily viewed articles in an apparent attempt to promote their sources and get their organizations opinions into popular article. So it's like published authors going around sticking their own books to make themselves more relevant. Obviously, such POV pushing by publisher to make themselves more relevant unnaturally shifts neutrality and create due weigh tissues. please see Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Anti_Defamation_League_citation_advocacy Graywalls ( talk) 09:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Comments are invited at Talk:U.S. national anthem protests (2016–present)#"Taking the knee" redirection at whether " taking the knee" (and similar) should redirect to a more general article. Mitch Ames ( talk) 03:59, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the "right-wing" media/commentators to something less biased such as "conservative" Viktory02 ( talk) 01:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I think some content from this source speaking about how BLM affects black trans people could be incorporated into the article, but i’m not sure where. X-Editor ( talk) 01:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
Somebody should take a photo (preferably a series of photos in a panorama) of the fence depicted in this New York Times article. There's some time urgency, as the fence is apparently slated to be painted over in 4 days. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Both of the examples provided in this section were retracted by their authors shortly afterward, as noted, and the concept as a whole goes against the vast majority of the body of scholarly evidence. This really doesn't seem like due weight for inclusion. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 06:45, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
For every 4,000 people who participated in a Black Lives Matter protest between 2014 and 2019, police killed one less person. Unfortunately, criminals killed between 3-10 times more victims, likely due to the pullback in enforcement.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/22360290/black-lives-matter-protest-crime-ferguson-effects-murder?__twitter_impression=true TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 03:53, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
This looks like a compelling study, and Aldon Morris –– who is quoted as endorsing its findings in the Scientific American piece you linked –– is a well respected sociologist. However at this point it is simply posted on the Social Science Research Network, which does not conduct peer review. Once the study has undergone a peer-review process and been approved for publication in a reputable journal, I would very much support discussing its findings in the article.The Vox article you linked to here likewise notes that this study has not yet received peer review, so we're still waiting on that before we present it to our readers. Even then, we would need to do so carefully, since it's still just one primary source. Generalrelative ( talk) 04:30, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It seems like the movement is without flaws. Should I agree with everything they do or (with reliable sources and all) can we point out some aspects of it that is less savory without resorting to alt-right conspiracy or white defensiveness? Espngeek ( talk) 14:36, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
"Less passive-aggressiveness, more constructive argument please?" What do you mean by this? Should they always be portrayed in a postive light? Please don't get mad as I do agree with their good points. Espngeek ( talk) 15:40, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. :) Espngeek ( talk) 17:05, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
That's OK. Espngeek ( talk) 17:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
184.103.241.209 ( talk) 17:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
BLACK LIVES MATTER. THIS MOVEMENT ISN'T SAYING THAT ONLY BLACK LIVES MATTER, ITS SAYING BLACK LIVES SHOULD BE REPRESENTED EQUALLY AS WHITE LIVES
Is this information really worth dedicating an entire section to – especially if the information can't actually be proven? BLM is behind the largest protests in U.S. history. With a topic this broad, I don't see how "TikTok shadowbanning" needs more than a sentence or two. Would like more input. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 17:32, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
In 2020, users of the popular app TikTok noticed that the app seemed to be shadow banning posts about BLM or recent police killings of black people. TikTok apologized and attributed the situation to a technical glitch.
Done OK, I've removed the section and added the truncated form recommended by Firefangledfeathers to the section "Internet and social media." Thanks all. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 21:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
I doubt since they have a logo and the protests are similar in different areas of the country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.177.29 ( talk • contribs)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't recall any referendum in 2016 to do with Brext. Brex-i-t, on the other hand. That's real. Edit request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C5A:657F:E631:740A:7BF7:46B6:F763 ( talk) 15:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If the article for " Boogaloo movement" describes the movement as not only "right", but "FAR right", then why isn't Black Lives Matter described at least as 'left?' Chris155au ( talk) 10:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for ending this topic. :') Espngeek ( talk) 23:12, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
"Strategies and tactics Black Lives Matter originally used various social media platforms—including hashtag activism—to reach thousands of people rapidly.[55] Since then, Black Lives Matter has embraced a diversity of tactics.[56] Black Lives Matter protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful; when violence does occur, it is often committed by police or by counter-protestors.[57][58][59] Despite this, opponents have falsely portrayed the movement as violent."
Please, complete BS, police are burning, looting and murdering in the cities these ppl "protest" in?
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
207.253.241.125 ( talk) 18:15, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
black matter matter https://earthsky.org/upl/2020/02/dark-matter-artist.jpeg -- 207.253.241.125 ( talk) 18:16, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Although supportive, as are millions of Americans, of recent important strides toward racial harmony, I was surprised to note the absence in this descriptor of any mention of the purposes-delineating, originating document of Black Lives Matter: the 2014 "Black Lives Matter Manifesto," penned by co-founders Garza, Cullors, and Tometi. Although since "massaged," original copies remain accessible on the internet. Openly self-proclaimed as "trained neo-Marxists" (see Eric Mann; SDS, Weather Underground) the co-founders therein state the precepts, purposes, and methods of BLM. Any reasoned discussion of the movement fails at outset without descriptors and access to the original document. Patricmcm ( talk) 17:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
The UK section has the following. "During a Black Lives Matter protest in Bristol, the city center statue of Edward Colston, a late 17th early 18th-century philanthropist, politician and slave trader, was pulled down by protesters, rolled along the road and pushed into Bristol Harbour."
Is the fact Colston was a philanthropist and politician actually relevant here? Surely the relevant point with regard to the BLM demonstrations is simply the fact that the BLM protesters pulled down the statue of a slave trader. Firestar47 ( talk) 13:07, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
, a late 17th early 18th-century philanthropist, politician and slave trader,in its entirety. — The Hand That Feeds You: Bite 17:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Content is being removed by
Willbb234, who says that the content is "
irrelevant to BLM views on law enforcement." Since the content is being removed and added without discussion, I wanted to try to start a discussion about the content. If it doesn't belong in that section, is there another section that it does belong to? There is a quote in the article about a response to the content: “I am highly offended, and I think other people should be,” said Teressa Raiford, a community activist involved in Black Lives Matter and Don’t Shoot Portland told the Oregonian. “I think it’s very unprofessional, especially someone in his position.”
Perhaps the content can be reworded to include this, to more appropriately fit into the section? I don't feel that a blanket removal of the content is appropriate, but perhaps moving or rewording it would be a step towards resolving the dispute? -
Aoidh (
talk) 22:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
@ FDW777 and Qetuadgjzcbm: just to forestall some possible editing conflict, I wanted to clarify that the plaque itself says Black Lives Matter at the top, so it's definitely related. However, I support the results of FDW777's revert, as the sources do not support it being the first connected to the BLM movement and it's not clear from the sourcing that this one plaque merits mention in a very broad-scope article. Firefangledfeathers ( talk) 21:26, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Should we capitalize "B" for Black? But in all newspaper articles, press releases, journals, and other encyclopedic purpose that capitalized Black. -- Frontman830 ( talk) 03:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
This line under Policing use of excessive force, looks wrong: "About half of those killed were white, and one quarter were black, making the rate of deaths for black Americans (31 fatal shootings per million) more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans (13 fatal shootings per million)." Shouldn't it be "About half of those killed where black and one quarter were while [...]"? Celsiuss ( talk) 22:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Brack Lives Matter. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Brack Lives Matter until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 05:16, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Fox and other right-wing sources say that BLM [I don't exactly know what this means, since the Wikipedia article calls it de-centralized, though "it" does have an executive committee etc.] issued a statement supporting the Cuban government in the wake of the summer 2021 protests in Cuba and that the statement drew strong negative responses: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-lives-matter-blames-us-praises-cuban-regime-social-media-erupts; Also https://www.nationalreview.com/news/black-lives-matter-blames-cuba-crisis-on-cruel-u-s-embargo/amp/, https://www.newsweek.com/why-black-lives-matter-defending-authoritarian-cuban-regime-opinion-1610283 (this last opinion piece has an image of what purports to be a text from BLM.) 79.134.37.73 ( talk) 03:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
The article specifically talks about victims of police brutality in the United States. Which is why I think it would be best that the article linked was "Police Brutality in the United States" instead of of the broader article "Police Brutality." Zen916 ( talk) 20:07, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The date of the New Zealand protest was 14 June 2020. The Wiki article has a typo and says 1 June 2020. Please correct this.
It was widely publicised as being organised 14 June, after New Zealand reached COVID-19 Alert Level 1 on 9 June. Protesters respected the lockdown protection order and delayed their mass gathering event until after Alert Level restrictions permitted it.
Here is a reference to some media articles that covered the events on 14 June 2020:
1. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418971/thousands-of-nzers-march-for-black-lives-matter
2. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/06/livestream-auckland-black-lives-matter-march-sunday-june-14.amp.html 2406:E003:831:4201:7D8C:404D:D70F:967E ( talk) 22:26, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
If one puts in the Internet Search, "Black Lives Matter Communism," one will find a Huge amount of articles and discussion about the connection of Black lives Matter with Communism, and Communist China. The huge amount of articles, and the fact that Wikipedia does not have this in the "Criticism" section of this Black Lives Matter article would really leave one with the conclusion that Wikipedia represents a Left-Wing Bias. Easeltine ( talk) 15:12, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
It seems that there is a matter of opinion on the Internet if both groups are linked together politically. Marxism/Left-Wing media separates groups for their purposes of misinformation. It is a common practice. Easeltine ( talk) 15:43, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality" to "advocating for violence in protest against incidents of police brutality". Specifically, remove "non-violent civil disobedience" from phrase, and add "violence" in its place in the phrase. [1] Mathew8980 ( talk) 10:26, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
I saw some online articles about Black Lives Matter being Marxist/communist. I'm not too interested in the subject to do further research, but I was wondering if it appeared in this article or if it wasn't notable enough.
Also, sorry to stray from my original question, but isn't "torch-wielding alt-right protesters" a little too antagonistic even with knowledge of who they are? "alt-right protesters" or something along those lines would be better in my opinion (I partially agree with the editor who wrote "Wiki's job to promote BLM?"). FredModulars ( talk) 09:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk.
Woah! A simple search on that quote reveals some significant reliable secondary sources verifying it, and demonstrating it's notability. It appears to be obviously not just a conspiracy-theory or right-wing propaganda thing. How tightly and how high up the sayer is connected to BLM should be looked into, which I haven't yet done, as should other factors of veracity. But, if she and her other "Marxist" co-founder are significant players then the matter would be very notable and includable. It would be important to introduce in a careful, dry, well-supported, and encyclopedic manner of course, but so far the matter appears to be very supported and very
WP:DUE.
142.105.159.178 (
talk) 23:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
then the inclusion of the matter on the BLM page becomes essential.
User:HandThatFeeds, Above you pointed to some kind of debate you've-all had that's in the Archives. There's a lot of stuff in the Archives. I'm not quite clear what you were referring to. Could you point it out specifically? It'd be easier if important stuff like that wasn't archived so quickly, which seems to be a thing here for some reason. Really, if nobody can see such big important decisions to verify them and their context, they can't be considered to have any weight. Make sense? If it's in the Archives, then it must have been decided that it's no longer material, or at least it gives that strong impression. A better way might to roll them up with a Template:Collapse, or something. 142.105.159.178 ( talk) 04:45, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
Wow, this page reads 100% like a advocacy piece for BLM. In fact, I doubt that the BLM organization would have written it much differently. Even every single paragraph in the criticism section ends with a note that somehow rebuts that criticism. Heck, the wiki page on Mother Theresa has more hard criticism than this page. Look at the lead paragraph as of right now:
"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people."
Compare this, for just one example, to the lead paragraph on the page for the Proud Boys:
"The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist and male-only political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada. While the group claims to reject racism, several members have been affiliated with white supremacy"
If that is the standard, then the opening here would read like this (of course I would include citations):
"Black Lives Matter is a far-left, Marxist political organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada. While the group claims to reject violence, several members have been affiliated with violent acts"
Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far, but it's clear this page isn't NPOV. Any ideas for improving the page in that direction, before I do it myself? 96.241.129.33 ( talk) 17:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
What is our standard for determining what can be part of statements like "Black Lives Matter calls for...", "Black Lives Matter supports...", "Black Lives Matter advocates..."
I believe the answer is, "things that people who say 'Black Lives Matter' believe". In light of that, it might be better to get rid of sentences that don't follow this rule or properly attribute them to their source. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 04:35, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
How can BLM be labeled peaceful when most have resulted in riots & looting? Plus in several cases murder or assault? PissedOffMeMa ( talk) 19:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the article claims to be decentralized. However, there is a recent Economist article which contradicts this.
Another change, the restructuring of BLM, could turn out to be just as significant: power is to be centralised. Ms Cullors has stood up to the boss of BLM's Global Network Foundation, which she calls the "umbrella organisation" for the whole movement. In taking responsibility, as she says, for the "onus of our successes and failures", she appears to be claiming leadership of the once leaderless movement.
That is because the foundation will control funds, dishing them out to officially recognised BLM city chapters through another new body called BLM Grassroots. The foundation is also moving away from doing mostly on-the-ground work. ... In October a BLM political-action committee was launched, to "bring the power of our movement from the streets to the ballot box".
This article suggests that the main meaning of Black Lives Matter refers to the organization, with defined leadership, and which is being centralized. Given that the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is described as the "umbrella organisation", its significance should be directly noted. Furthermore, the article for Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation also calls it decentralised, which does not match with the Economist article, so that should be changed too. — Naddruf ( talk ~ contribs) 17:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
References
"Black Lives Matter" is a commonly used phrase in protests and other events not organized by any Black Lives Matter organizations. It has an interesting and long history, varied usage, and is associated with a number of different beliefs. Many of the 15 million protestors who use the phrase are unaware of and unaffiliated with the organizations.
A good comparison is Hands up, don't shoot, All Cops Are Bastards, or Defund the police.
I propose separate articles for the organizations and the slogan.
Another comparison is Teetotalism, Temperance movement, and American Temperance Society. I'm open to many different ways to split things up, but it's odd that a single article covers the "Financial transparency issues" of these organizations and policing in the United States in general. This would resolve questions like, "Black Lives Matter being Marxist/communist" (above) or "does Black Lives Matter advocate/condemn violence?"
This would resolve a lot of issues around what the movement "stands for". The phrase is a symbol, which can stand for many things.
If we don't do this, we should definitely get rid of sentences like "Black Lives Matter called to defund the police..." and "Black Lives Matter organized..." A slogan associated with varied beliefs can't "call to" do something. As an example, most organizations that have said "Black Lives Matter" probably wouldn't say "Defund the Police". DenverCoder9 ( talk) 02:18, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
If so, how can "Black Lives Matter" act as a noun?
"Civil disobedience" means breaking laws or regulations of a government. Not all 15 million supporters of BLM support breaking laws. What BLM does oppose is racially motivated violence, etc.
Most major companies, including Bank of America, have come out in support of BLM. Bank of America does not advocate breaking laws.
The only mention of "civil disobedience" in the body is when an organization in Denmark that uses the phrase "BLM" broke financial transparency laws. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Q746371 ( talk • contribs) 04:55, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
It could be possible that that BLM organisation in Denmark might be unrelated to this articles BOM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.180.90 ( talk) 16:29, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
Editor added section about a false accusation of financial impropriety. Per WP:DUE, disagree that this is notable enough to merit mention. Open to different opinions. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 01:31, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect We Believe (yard sign). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 January 13#We Believe (yard sign) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 12:02, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I noticed some back-and-forth over polling in the lead with regards to what polls to include and why. But... the real takeaway here is that we should avoid using primary sources for polling, since doing so inevitably carries assumptions and ends up leading the reader to a specific conclusion that the polls themselves might not support. Can we find some secondary sources discussing public opinion to replace the cites to Pew? Those tend to provide more interpretation and analysis and let us avoid problems of eg. "are we comparing apples and oranges" or the like. -- Aquillion ( talk) 22:47, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
There was a claim that "Effects on Crime" is a synthesis. In the spirit of BRD, opening a talk page.
Note that WaPo and the star tribune draw direct lines to the timing of the violence (I'm not going to use the word "riot", and I don't think we should either). I'm a supporter of BLM as well, but it wouldn't be charitable to critics of BLM not to include the claim that the protests allegedly enabled violence.
More important than what happened in June, we should certainly include discussion of the long-term policy effects of the movement. I've been trying to write up positive effects for the rest of the article, but I wrote the criticism-specific ones first. DenverCoder9 ( talk) 01:28, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
I can't see any reason or precedent for the movement getting a Nobel Peace Prize nomination being in any way notable for a standalone sentence in the lead, or to be noted in the lead at all. It isn't discussed extensively in the body which the lead is supposed to be a summary for, and thousands of people, things and movements get nominated for the peace prize every year. There's literally no limit, anyone can nominate anyone else or anything for the prize! And I don't see any consistency with nominations being lead worthy amongst other 2021 peace prize nominees such as Alexei Navalny, the Hong Kong Free Press, the WHO and Donald Trump, who's recieved 3! If the movement wins it or comes runner up or something otherwise notable and distinguishing amongst the thousands of nominees, I'm all for including it, but unless we are gonna start freely noting every single person, thing or movement to ever recieve nobel peace prize nominations in their leads, it should and has to be removed here. Davefelmer ( talk) 22:45, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Personally I don’t think simple nominations are due weight for an article unless they are extraordinary in their own right. There are, quite literally, thousands of people who can nominate as many people/things as they want for a prize - just as a comparison, Donald Trump got at least three nominations for the Peace Prize (that I recall, may have been more). -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 04:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
'Amongst' is decidedly rare in US usage. 'Among' should replace it in this article. 37.99.33.37 ( talk) 06:57, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Black Lives Matter-themed signs was a POVFORK and does not seem notable enough. SpacetimeIsCool ( talk ∙ contribs) 02:20, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
A recent study found that police killings decrease in places where there are BLM protests. Where should this be added the the article? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/killings-by-police-declined-after-black-lives-matter-protests1/ X-Editor ( talk) 01:21, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"According to The Washington Post, police officers shot and killed 1,001 people in the United States in 2019. About half of those killed were white, and one quarter were black, making the rate of deaths for black Americans (31 fatal shootings per million) more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans (13 fatal shootings per million)."
Is this math not incorrect? If 1000 people were killed and half(500) were white and one quarter (250) were black that means twice as many white people were killed. Not the other way around. 12.152.125.40 ( talk) 13:17, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Generalrelative:, I see you reverted back. Just so you're, I would like to make sure you're aware that ADL has been overseeing edits, by at least 8 different accounts that have been systematically adding their own publications into numerous heavily viewed articles in an apparent attempt to promote their sources and get their organizations opinions into popular article. So it's like published authors going around sticking their own books to make themselves more relevant. Obviously, such POV pushing by publisher to make themselves more relevant unnaturally shifts neutrality and create due weigh tissues. please see Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Anti_Defamation_League_citation_advocacy Graywalls ( talk) 09:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Comments are invited at Talk:U.S. national anthem protests (2016–present)#"Taking the knee" redirection at whether " taking the knee" (and similar) should redirect to a more general article. Mitch Ames ( talk) 03:59, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the "right-wing" media/commentators to something less biased such as "conservative" Viktory02 ( talk) 01:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I think some content from this source speaking about how BLM affects black trans people could be incorporated into the article, but i’m not sure where. X-Editor ( talk) 01:01, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
Somebody should take a photo (preferably a series of photos in a panorama) of the fence depicted in this New York Times article. There's some time urgency, as the fence is apparently slated to be painted over in 4 days. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Both of the examples provided in this section were retracted by their authors shortly afterward, as noted, and the concept as a whole goes against the vast majority of the body of scholarly evidence. This really doesn't seem like due weight for inclusion. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 06:45, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
For every 4,000 people who participated in a Black Lives Matter protest between 2014 and 2019, police killed one less person. Unfortunately, criminals killed between 3-10 times more victims, likely due to the pullback in enforcement.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/22360290/black-lives-matter-protest-crime-ferguson-effects-murder?__twitter_impression=true TuffStuffMcG ( talk) 03:53, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
This looks like a compelling study, and Aldon Morris –– who is quoted as endorsing its findings in the Scientific American piece you linked –– is a well respected sociologist. However at this point it is simply posted on the Social Science Research Network, which does not conduct peer review. Once the study has undergone a peer-review process and been approved for publication in a reputable journal, I would very much support discussing its findings in the article.The Vox article you linked to here likewise notes that this study has not yet received peer review, so we're still waiting on that before we present it to our readers. Even then, we would need to do so carefully, since it's still just one primary source. Generalrelative ( talk) 04:30, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It seems like the movement is without flaws. Should I agree with everything they do or (with reliable sources and all) can we point out some aspects of it that is less savory without resorting to alt-right conspiracy or white defensiveness? Espngeek ( talk) 14:36, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
"Less passive-aggressiveness, more constructive argument please?" What do you mean by this? Should they always be portrayed in a postive light? Please don't get mad as I do agree with their good points. Espngeek ( talk) 15:40, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. :) Espngeek ( talk) 17:05, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
That's OK. Espngeek ( talk) 17:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
184.103.241.209 ( talk) 17:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
BLACK LIVES MATTER. THIS MOVEMENT ISN'T SAYING THAT ONLY BLACK LIVES MATTER, ITS SAYING BLACK LIVES SHOULD BE REPRESENTED EQUALLY AS WHITE LIVES
Is this information really worth dedicating an entire section to – especially if the information can't actually be proven? BLM is behind the largest protests in U.S. history. With a topic this broad, I don't see how "TikTok shadowbanning" needs more than a sentence or two. Would like more input. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 17:32, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
In 2020, users of the popular app TikTok noticed that the app seemed to be shadow banning posts about BLM or recent police killings of black people. TikTok apologized and attributed the situation to a technical glitch.
Done OK, I've removed the section and added the truncated form recommended by Firefangledfeathers to the section "Internet and social media." Thanks all. AllegedlyHuman ( talk) 21:07, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
I doubt since they have a logo and the protests are similar in different areas of the country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.177.29 ( talk • contribs)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I don't recall any referendum in 2016 to do with Brext. Brex-i-t, on the other hand. That's real. Edit request. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C5A:657F:E631:740A:7BF7:46B6:F763 ( talk) 15:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
If the article for " Boogaloo movement" describes the movement as not only "right", but "FAR right", then why isn't Black Lives Matter described at least as 'left?' Chris155au ( talk) 10:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for ending this topic. :') Espngeek ( talk) 23:12, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
"Strategies and tactics Black Lives Matter originally used various social media platforms—including hashtag activism—to reach thousands of people rapidly.[55] Since then, Black Lives Matter has embraced a diversity of tactics.[56] Black Lives Matter protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful; when violence does occur, it is often committed by police or by counter-protestors.[57][58][59] Despite this, opponents have falsely portrayed the movement as violent."
Please, complete BS, police are burning, looting and murdering in the cities these ppl "protest" in?
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
207.253.241.125 ( talk) 18:15, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
black matter matter https://earthsky.org/upl/2020/02/dark-matter-artist.jpeg -- 207.253.241.125 ( talk) 18:16, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Although supportive, as are millions of Americans, of recent important strides toward racial harmony, I was surprised to note the absence in this descriptor of any mention of the purposes-delineating, originating document of Black Lives Matter: the 2014 "Black Lives Matter Manifesto," penned by co-founders Garza, Cullors, and Tometi. Although since "massaged," original copies remain accessible on the internet. Openly self-proclaimed as "trained neo-Marxists" (see Eric Mann; SDS, Weather Underground) the co-founders therein state the precepts, purposes, and methods of BLM. Any reasoned discussion of the movement fails at outset without descriptors and access to the original document. Patricmcm ( talk) 17:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
The UK section has the following. "During a Black Lives Matter protest in Bristol, the city center statue of Edward Colston, a late 17th early 18th-century philanthropist, politician and slave trader, was pulled down by protesters, rolled along the road and pushed into Bristol Harbour."
Is the fact Colston was a philanthropist and politician actually relevant here? Surely the relevant point with regard to the BLM demonstrations is simply the fact that the BLM protesters pulled down the statue of a slave trader. Firestar47 ( talk) 13:07, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
, a late 17th early 18th-century philanthropist, politician and slave trader,in its entirety. — The Hand That Feeds You: Bite 17:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Content is being removed by
Willbb234, who says that the content is "
irrelevant to BLM views on law enforcement." Since the content is being removed and added without discussion, I wanted to try to start a discussion about the content. If it doesn't belong in that section, is there another section that it does belong to? There is a quote in the article about a response to the content: “I am highly offended, and I think other people should be,” said Teressa Raiford, a community activist involved in Black Lives Matter and Don’t Shoot Portland told the Oregonian. “I think it’s very unprofessional, especially someone in his position.”
Perhaps the content can be reworded to include this, to more appropriately fit into the section? I don't feel that a blanket removal of the content is appropriate, but perhaps moving or rewording it would be a step towards resolving the dispute? -
Aoidh (
talk) 22:19, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
@ FDW777 and Qetuadgjzcbm: just to forestall some possible editing conflict, I wanted to clarify that the plaque itself says Black Lives Matter at the top, so it's definitely related. However, I support the results of FDW777's revert, as the sources do not support it being the first connected to the BLM movement and it's not clear from the sourcing that this one plaque merits mention in a very broad-scope article. Firefangledfeathers ( talk) 21:26, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Should we capitalize "B" for Black? But in all newspaper articles, press releases, journals, and other encyclopedic purpose that capitalized Black. -- Frontman830 ( talk) 03:55, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
This line under Policing use of excessive force, looks wrong: "About half of those killed were white, and one quarter were black, making the rate of deaths for black Americans (31 fatal shootings per million) more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans (13 fatal shootings per million)." Shouldn't it be "About half of those killed where black and one quarter were while [...]"? Celsiuss ( talk) 22:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Brack Lives Matter. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 22#Brack Lives Matter until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm Talk 05:16, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Fox and other right-wing sources say that BLM [I don't exactly know what this means, since the Wikipedia article calls it de-centralized, though "it" does have an executive committee etc.] issued a statement supporting the Cuban government in the wake of the summer 2021 protests in Cuba and that the statement drew strong negative responses: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-lives-matter-blames-us-praises-cuban-regime-social-media-erupts; Also https://www.nationalreview.com/news/black-lives-matter-blames-cuba-crisis-on-cruel-u-s-embargo/amp/, https://www.newsweek.com/why-black-lives-matter-defending-authoritarian-cuban-regime-opinion-1610283 (this last opinion piece has an image of what purports to be a text from BLM.) 79.134.37.73 ( talk) 03:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
The article specifically talks about victims of police brutality in the United States. Which is why I think it would be best that the article linked was "Police Brutality in the United States" instead of of the broader article "Police Brutality." Zen916 ( talk) 20:07, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The date of the New Zealand protest was 14 June 2020. The Wiki article has a typo and says 1 June 2020. Please correct this.
It was widely publicised as being organised 14 June, after New Zealand reached COVID-19 Alert Level 1 on 9 June. Protesters respected the lockdown protection order and delayed their mass gathering event until after Alert Level restrictions permitted it.
Here is a reference to some media articles that covered the events on 14 June 2020:
1. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/418971/thousands-of-nzers-march-for-black-lives-matter
2. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/06/livestream-auckland-black-lives-matter-march-sunday-june-14.amp.html 2406:E003:831:4201:7D8C:404D:D70F:967E ( talk) 22:26, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
If one puts in the Internet Search, "Black Lives Matter Communism," one will find a Huge amount of articles and discussion about the connection of Black lives Matter with Communism, and Communist China. The huge amount of articles, and the fact that Wikipedia does not have this in the "Criticism" section of this Black Lives Matter article would really leave one with the conclusion that Wikipedia represents a Left-Wing Bias. Easeltine ( talk) 15:12, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
It seems that there is a matter of opinion on the Internet if both groups are linked together politically. Marxism/Left-Wing media separates groups for their purposes of misinformation. It is a common practice. Easeltine ( talk) 15:43, 5 September 2021 (UTC)