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I propose to redirect the stub "
Black Lives Matter Movement" here. A Merry Christmas!
Rich
Farmbrough, 14:29, 27 December 2014 (UTC).
There's been recent edit warring with IP vandalism. WP:RFP may be a solution. Thoughts? Runner1928 ( talk) 04:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
A navigation template at the bottom of this article is being discussed for deletion because there is no parent article. One editor asked whether the Black Lives Matter article might be expanded to become the parent article. Interested editors, please comment here. Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 23:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Hey- I noticed for 'Deaths inspiring the movement' (this should probably be renamed to a more appropriate header) we were using facebook as a source for many of them to link them to the movement. Isn't Facebook A) a primary source, B) able to be changed at any moment and C) access limited to having an account? Surely we could use something better. PeterTheFourth ( talk) 02:16, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I clarified some of the blurbs about the folks whose deaths sparked protests and updated them with more recent/accurate information. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 07:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I have just created Death of Jonathan Sanders if someone has the time right now to add it to the article. I don't have the time at present. Thank you. Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Why does this list give a description of the individual events they felt the need to protest? Selectively picking bits of information about each case is not neutral. The info can go on the page each case links to. I think the column should be deleted.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 18:12, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Some incidents have 1 sentence summary, while others have 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. You cannot summarise events that happened under questionable circumstances. The only relevant details are 1) a black person died and 2) non-black police were involved. Either the summaries should describe each event equally, or it's not neutral.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 19:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
The information in the summaries should be as columns instead. Such as Was Officer convicted, Cause of Death, was victim convicted previously? and so on. That makes it neutral.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 19:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
OK summaries are not neutral because they miss details such as
Or, the longer version, using two paragraphs from the lead:The shooting of Samuel DuBose occurred during a traffic stop for a missing front license plate on July 19, 2015, in Cincinnati, Ohio. DuBose, a black man, was fatally shot by Ray Tensing, a white University of Cincinnati police officer.
With such a system, any concerns about neutrality would be taken to the target article's talk page, not this one. This leaves the question of the "aftermath" part, but I'm not convinced that that part is more important than addressing the neutrality problem in some practical way. I would be interested in hearing other opinions about either proposition. ― Mandruss ☎ 20:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)The shooting of Samuel DuBose occurred during a traffic stop for a missing front license plate on July 19, 2015, in Cincinnati, Ohio. DuBose, a black man, was fatally shot by Ray Tensing, a white University of Cincinnati police officer. Tensing shot DuBose when he started his car and, according to Tensing, began to drive off. Tensing stated that he was being dragged when his arm became caught in the car. Prosecutors said that footage from Tensing's bodycam showed that he was not dragged, and, on July 29, a grand jury indicted him on charges of murder and voluntary manslaughter. He was then fired from the police department.
As far as I can see, BLM is far more a loose movement than an activist organization, little more than Hands up, don't shoot. That's what the first sentence says, a movement. Is there a spokesperson for BLM? Any widely recognized national leadership? Does BLM have financing or lobbyists? Is there anything preventing me from declaring myself a member of Black Lives Matter, just because I feel like it? If I then protest the Killing of John Doe and invoke the BLM name, and some RS reports that I did so (without necessarily endorsing the connection), does that constitute a BLM protest? What is the criterion for inclusion in the protests table?
I noted that Eric Harris is mentioned in the lead but is not in the table. So I went looking for references, using "eric harris" "black lives matter". I gave up after the first three or four; they mention both in the same story, hence the Google hit, but they don't make a clear connection. Maybe I need to look deeper, but it looks to me like the association is made by the reporter/columnist, not by BLM. To my mind, that's not enough for inclusion, and I wonder how many of the existing entries are based on such a tenuous connection. ― Mandruss ☎ 10:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey. Recently I
removed a not insignificant amount of text about Bernard Sanders in the 'description and events' section. I believe those sections are
synthesis and against our policies on original research. It is stated in the link I've provided that we are not to "combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources.
". I believe that mentioning unrelated biographical information about Sanders in relation to the recent incident is purely placed there in an attempt to imply the conclusion that the interruption of his speech was a poor move on the part of the activists, especially when phrased as "The protestors claimed [...] despite the fact that
". I do not believe that interrupting his speech was a wise move, however, we do not include information in wikipedia articles simply because they are 'facts'. If reliable sources talk about Sanders civil rights policies and actions in relation to the activists interrupting his speech, we should include it- we should however not go out of our way to paint them as stupid if reliable sources do not discuss it in this way (remember that we aim for
verifiability not truth). As such, I would ask
Miunouta to selfrevert his edit which reintroduced this language and unrelated information.
PeterTheFourth (
talk)
07:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't see Soros being mentioned in this article, who funded both the Clinton campaign and BLM (indirectly). Shouldn't that be added somewhere especially considering the notable, growing attention the BLM movement is getting for attacking Bernie Sanders while giving Hillary Clinton a pass?
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html?intcmp=hpft#/v/4382576076001
Seems a bit white-washed from this article. Cowicide ( talk) 19:55, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi not sure where to post this, but the edits made by 72.176.56.38 are at best irrelevant to the BLM page, as BLM is a response to state violence towards black lives, rather than intraracial crime, I think they're intentionally misleading. This IP has also been editing a number of other pages with very questionable input. Gracefulpuffin ( talk) 12:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
The opening paragraph's last sentence said "Numerous" media organizations have referred to BLM as "a new civil rights movement." "Numerous" gives the impression that many media outlets share this view, yet only 3 sources were cited. I've changed "Numerous" to "Some" to better reflect the number of sources. This can always be changed back if an editor finds more sources.
I've also tried to make the lead more balanced by noting that other RS have declared it a "terrorist group" and a "hate group." Scaleshombre ( talk) 01:09, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
The section Deaths inspiring the movement needs references that state unambiguously that the listed deaths inspired BLM, otherwise they will be removed. Original research is not allowed. I tagged the section yesterday, but someone has already removed the tag without addressing the issue. In a similar vein, the NAVBOX Template:Deaths inspiring Black Lives Matter, is problematic. Many of the articles linked make no mention of BLM. Again, this is an original research issue and a WP:NPOV issue.- Mr X 12:09, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I added the table back, unaware of this talk page discussion. I think we should look at each entry and see if an independent source relates it to the Black Lives Matter movement. I have not made a thorough review of each and every entry, but those that I checked seemed to be OK. I'll start with the first two and can take a further look when time permits.
MrX makes a fair point that "inspires" is problematic, I am changing the header to "protested by". Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:44, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Patrisse Cullors says "Actually, I think the first set of uprisings came with the murder of Oscar Grant. That was our politicization." when asked "Did this movement grow out of the death of Mike Brown?" by Vice magazine. [1] Doesn't that make it clear where the BlackLivesMatter movement started? I'm new. I apologize if I'm adding to this talk incorrectly. MiltownkidZEE ( talk) 15:14, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
BLM founder Alicia Garza cites Assata Shakur, the convicted killer of a state trooper, as one of the seminal influences on the movement in her article "A Herstory of the #BlackLivesMatter Movement." Shouldn't this be mentioned, at least in passing, given the growing discussion in the media about BLM's possible connection to recent cop killings? I don't think it's appropriate for us to make an explicit link between Shakur's influence in BLM and these killings. That would be OR. But we should at least mention Shakur's role as one of the inspirations for the movement. Seems pretty important within the overall context of BLM and the issues it deals with. What do you think? -- Scaleshombre ( talk) 03:15, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
There is a short paragraph Response to All Lives Matter in this article, but it seems to be taken for granted that the reader knows what All Lives Matter is. Is it, like Black Lives Matter, an "American Movement" which has received media attention? Are there well-known people standing behind it? Is it a hashtag? The motto of a pro-life (i.e., anti- abortion) group? (It seems to me that it isn't, but we need a short explanation. Not on the discussion page, but in the article itself.)
-- Austrian ( talk) 07:35, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I missed the part where people were going into businesses and harrasing white people that were eating or shopping. That seems like it should be important to cover all bases of the movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.154.127 ( talk) 16:59, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
The section List of deaths protested by Black Lives Matter is mainly about the deaths and not about Black Lives Matter. The only mention of Black Lives Matter is in the Trayvon Martin entry. I think the section should be rewritten to orient it toward Black Lives Matter. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 03:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Here's a couple more to add to the one above. I got the info from a source in the third item of the list.
And if anyone wants to jump in and continue in this way, you're very welcome to do that. I'll wait until someone does before continuing. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 02:40, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
I moved two of the above three items into the section Description and events. The third item was already there. I moved the List of names into the See also section. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 19:35, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
From the lead of the Wikipedia policy WP:NOR,
There is a major problem regarding this for the material in the column headed by "Description and aftermath" because sources used for that material do not mention the Black Lives Matter movement, except possibly for those column entries for Trayvon Martin, Dontre Hamilton, Tony Robinson, and Samuel DuBose. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 14:57, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
I think the long Garza quote re-added by User:Aliceba is unnecessary. What do you think? -- JumpLike23 (talk) 23:38, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
The issue is that 'Black Lives Matter' apparently includes an unwritten asterisk, meaning there's a criteria for who counts as 'black', therefore, whose life matters, as subject to approval, resulting in a caste system where some black lives matter, and others do not, or one person's race outweighs another's civil, and Constitutional rights. I will continue saying All Lives Matter, because that also includes my life, as well as those of others who didn't meet the approval, or remain socially vulnerable due to economic, or political disadvantage. A claim to anti-racism can't be made where the use of racial status to violate, and exploit another is advocated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:0:7B00:CC4C:81F8:BB52:4806 ( talk) 09:54, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The lede as written is unbalanced, giving the impression that BLM only speaks up for clear-cut victims of police misconduct. Yet the case that really launched BLM as a movement -- and one which BLM continues to draw attention to -- involves a death, that of Michael Brown, that's widely regarded as justified under the circumstances. The lede should reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scaleshombre ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
It's implication by omission. The lead's partially true -- BLM does protest shootings of black people at the hands of police. But that doesn't adequately summarize the scope of its protests. BLM protests not just shootings, but other types of police-related deaths of African-Americans. And deaths that occur in a variety of circumstances -- everything from clearly unjustified killings, to tragic but unintended killings, to justified use of force in self-defense. Then there's the mention of Sandra Bland dying "at the hands of police officers." This is blatantly untrue. She died in custody, apparently of suicide. Scaleshombre ( talk) 06:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: the lead generally needs to be expanded to better cover the article since it has been expanded.-- JumpLike23 (talk) 18:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Quite a few of the locations of protests, just looking at the photos on the front side of this page, seem to be at sites associated with gentrification - I wonder if this bears mentioning somewhere in the article.-- Pharos ( talk) 19:32, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Black lives matters isn't just a a movement for cis gendered black males as the media would like the paint it as.
http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
#BlackLivesMatter was created in 2012 after Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman, was acquitted for his crime, and dead 17-year old Trayvon was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder. Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our de-humanization, #BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes.
It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.
When we say Black Lives Matter, we are broadening the conversation around state violence to include all of the ways in which Black people are intentionally left powerless at the hands of the state. We are talking about the ways in which Black lives are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity. How Black poverty and genocide is state violence. How 2.8 million Black people are locked in cages in this country is state violence. How Black women bearing the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families is state violence. How Black queer and trans folks bear a unique burden from a hetero-patriarchal society that disposes of us like garbage and simultaneously fetishizes us and profits off of us, and that is state violence. How 500,000 Black people in the US are undocumented immigrants and relegated to the shadows. How Black girls are used as negotiating chips during times of conflict and war. How Black folks living with disabilities and different abilities bear the burden of state sponsored Darwinian experiments that attempt to squeeze us into boxes of normality defined by white supremacy, and that is state violence.
#BlackLivesMatter is working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. We affirm our contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression. We have put our sweat equity and love for Black people into creating a political project–taking the hashtag off of social media and into the streets. The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.
BlackWomenMatter BlackGirlsMatter BlackGayLivesMatter BlackBiLivesMatter BlackBoysMatter BlackQueerLivesMatter BlackMenMatter BlackLesbiansMatter BlackTransLivesMatter BlackImmigrantsMatter BlackIncarceratedLivesMatter BlackDifferentlyAbledLivesMatter
AHC300 ( talk) 18:23, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
This is not the place to air your grievances
|
---|
On top of the page completely misleading in it's version of history. It is written in a inflammatory manner meant to incite violence. And it uses derogatory terms which would have caused any other page to be removed. The use of the term queer blacks would have been red flagged and used to remove most other pages on Wiki. The omission of the real creator of the group, a leftist socialist is very telling. There is nothing grass roots about the group as it has been proven that most of the protesters in the Zimmerman incident were bused in with the cost being covered by the anti capitalist billionaire. There little wonder why this page was locked so it could not be corrected. |
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncrdbl1 ( talk • contribs) 04:03, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
The term QUEER is used on the site and is a term known to be derogatory in nature to those living an alternative life style. Your own page even differentiates between blacks who live an alternative life style and all other races. Which mean this is a racist organization since it only believes that those of a certain race should be allowed certain protection. BLM was not form as a result of the Zimmerman act of self defense. It was created as a reaction to LOSING the trumped up case against Zimmerman. Even with a judge who allowed evidence in the case to be presented which normally would not be allowed the jury still did not by into the weak case. Took an activist DA to even get it through a grand jury and should have ended in summary judgement for acquittal. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ncrdbl1 (
talk •
contribs)
04:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Link here, by proportion of population and by proportions of homicide offenders by race, blacks are killed by police less than whites. A pertinent source that must be cited in this article. Wajajad ( talk) 19:02, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Wonder why BLM was not in Mississippi when a black man was driven off the road and killed and his car mate severally inured in the crash. After his car was attacked by those who do not agree with him on issues. I guess BLM only if a white is involved and a black man being ran off the road for political reasons by a car load of blacks do not fit their agenda. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ncrdbl1 (
talk •
contribs)
04:32, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
How can a slogan be debunked? they are using the slogan--that's it. -- JumpLike23 (talk) 05:09, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Bmb8aq ( talk) 03:29, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Since the material has now been replaced twice I thought I would start this section to try to talk about why I believe it should not be included as is without any citations. The sections put in by the student editor make references to living people. Per the BLP guidelines those claims should always be sourced and any unsourced claim should be removed immediately. I have now done this again to comply with BLP guidelines until this can be sorted out. The student editor is more than welcome to retrieve the text of the edit and continue working on it in their own user space but it is my opinion that it is not only not ready for a live article it is a BLP violation to continue having it.
Pinging those involved with this: @ Chesar48, Scaleshombre, Jumplike23, Zpeopleheart, and Pharos:
-- Stabila711 ( talk) 06:43, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
--@@ Stabila711: Can you clarify what you mean by BLP? LH2015 15:34, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
With @@ Zpeopleheart: reversion I believe that the editor is getting close to an edit war without going to the talk page. Editor continues to trot forward without improving the controversial additions or moving to talk page.-- JumpLike23 (talk) 06:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
If you were to set up a list of items that makes a group a terrorist organization then BLM meets most if not all of them. Included in this is the members opening calling for the killing of police and members actually killing police. While they can claim they never actually said go kill cops. The terminology used leave little to the imagination. It is clearly meant as code word for kill cops.
http://collectingmythoughts.blogspot.com/2015/08/black-lives-matter-marchers-call-for.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncrdbl1 ( talk • contribs) 04:18, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
There have been other protests that we need to add like Laquan Mcdonald, the school protests and many more. We need to add the donald trump rally assault, expand all lives matter section. -- JumpLike23 (talk) 06:45, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
I added the following to the article:
Conservatives pointed out statistics from the federal government which showed that 93% of black murder victims were murdered by other blacks, and wondered why Black Lives Matter never protested against these murders. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]
I'm not purple today ( talk) 21:16, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
Martin Luther King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) and the Black Panther Party were very prominent black civil rights movements mid-20th century. The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) was a newer radical but still non-violent spin-off of the SCLC. A particular difference is that they were more inclusive towards women. Ella Baker is a key figure who comments on the hierarchical structure of the SCLC and their lack of female representation. SNCC was fueled by the fires of young black students fighting for their rights. Quote by Ashley Yates of Millennial Activists describes her experience: “We definitely realize that we’re standing on the shoulders of the people who came before us.” The Black Live matters is a natural progression of the black liberation movement.
Vann R. Newkirk II, a member of BLM, shares his experience with a former member of the SNCC, Julian Bond, describes the inter-generational gap. Bond is a product of his time, one of the differences that Newkirk describes is clothing. Bond states that in order to be heard these new young activists need to buy a suit. A suit can be seen as a compromise of values or assimilation, if you will. Newkirk then describes that the black lives matter is the successor of SNCC with even more “radical” views and are even more inclusive. All while wearing what he likes to wear.
I like this but do you have a source? -- JumpLike23 (talk) 20:26, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
We should add a section "Deaths caused by Black Lives Matter" and list the increased number of black people murdered in cities where the police have scaled back patrols and aggressive policing in response to Black Lives Matter, as well as the 90% increase in police officers being attacked and murdered by black people inspired by this movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.96.212 ( talk) 17:03, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
The movement started as a hashtag and some people have gone so far as to attempt to organize and form an entity, but this is not rational. BLM is not an organization, it's a movement. Movements are typically loosely governed by mob rule, not small groups of individuals. To state that the movements ideology consists of set parameters is highly illogical. We have all seen footage of many BLM supporters openly advocating black supremacy and racism, so I fail to see how a collective that is swayed by a mob can claim to have a leader.
The whole country criticizes the movement... and yet you have "editors" making sure that no controversy gets put on the article...
I believe that an NPOV tag needs to get put up in the article. -- JT2958 ( talk) 06:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
I added a criticism section based on some of the more prevalent criticisms I've seen about the movement. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 05:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
There needs to be a controversy section. The entire article is biased and lacks neutrality. There is controversy against Black Lives Matter and everyone knows it... it's been all over the news and in op-ed's.
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9247901/black-lives-matter-mlk
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/02/black-lives-matter-s-big-mistake.html
JT2958 ( talk) 01:36, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
I think a politician response section to BLM could also go under a controversy section. Many politicians have responded to BLM, the most well known case was with Bernie Sanders. However, controversy does exist, and it's not just civilians and news companies producing it: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/mike-huckabee-black-lives-matter-martin-luther-king/index.html http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/02/nikki-haley-says-black-lives-matter-movement-is-endangering-black-lives/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/02/scott-walker-alleges-a-rise-in-anti-police-rhetoric-under-president-obama/ JT2958 ( talk) 09:10, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Responses from senators and governors are typically more noteworthy than the perspectives of a news agency. Some of the responses are criticisms... hence why I put it in this section. JT2958 ( talk) 15:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the shooting of BLM protesters by 4 white men — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:8B02:433F:B947:9F85:282D:724F ( talk) 20:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
This article does not state what the BLM movement want done about anything at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.44.225.24 ( talk) 06:46, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Definition reads "campaigns against violence toward black people". Unless there is an evidence and links that they ever stood against the black-on-black violence or maybe hispanic-on-black violence, the definition should be changed to "campaigns against the violence of while police toward black people". The section "Black on black shootings" confirms my point. 73.71.174.75 ( talk) 02:32, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm curious - why is there no mention of how BLM movement is funded? Is it self-funded, from small donations by activists? Is it funded by Russia, in order to promote discord in the US, like they do with far-right in Europe?
Does anyone really know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.102.11.6 ( talk) 01:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
new editor. this article intro is poorly written.
original:
alternative:
Wafflesmatter ( talk) 20:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
Where is the discussion of the obvious but unmentioned Communist influence and agitprop at work here? It is well known that Communists exploit and inflame racial tensions with the aim of undermining the 'system' using minorities as pawns. 107.77.229.230 ( talk) 22:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I propose to redirect the stub "
Black Lives Matter Movement" here. A Merry Christmas!
Rich
Farmbrough, 14:29, 27 December 2014 (UTC).
There's been recent edit warring with IP vandalism. WP:RFP may be a solution. Thoughts? Runner1928 ( talk) 04:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
A navigation template at the bottom of this article is being discussed for deletion because there is no parent article. One editor asked whether the Black Lives Matter article might be expanded to become the parent article. Interested editors, please comment here. Grand'mere Eugene ( talk) 23:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Hey- I noticed for 'Deaths inspiring the movement' (this should probably be renamed to a more appropriate header) we were using facebook as a source for many of them to link them to the movement. Isn't Facebook A) a primary source, B) able to be changed at any moment and C) access limited to having an account? Surely we could use something better. PeterTheFourth ( talk) 02:16, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I clarified some of the blurbs about the folks whose deaths sparked protests and updated them with more recent/accurate information. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 07:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
I have just created Death of Jonathan Sanders if someone has the time right now to add it to the article. I don't have the time at present. Thank you. Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Why does this list give a description of the individual events they felt the need to protest? Selectively picking bits of information about each case is not neutral. The info can go on the page each case links to. I think the column should be deleted.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 18:12, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Some incidents have 1 sentence summary, while others have 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. You cannot summarise events that happened under questionable circumstances. The only relevant details are 1) a black person died and 2) non-black police were involved. Either the summaries should describe each event equally, or it's not neutral.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 19:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
The information in the summaries should be as columns instead. Such as Was Officer convicted, Cause of Death, was victim convicted previously? and so on. That makes it neutral.-- JudgeJason ( talk) 19:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
OK summaries are not neutral because they miss details such as
Or, the longer version, using two paragraphs from the lead:The shooting of Samuel DuBose occurred during a traffic stop for a missing front license plate on July 19, 2015, in Cincinnati, Ohio. DuBose, a black man, was fatally shot by Ray Tensing, a white University of Cincinnati police officer.
With such a system, any concerns about neutrality would be taken to the target article's talk page, not this one. This leaves the question of the "aftermath" part, but I'm not convinced that that part is more important than addressing the neutrality problem in some practical way. I would be interested in hearing other opinions about either proposition. ― Mandruss ☎ 20:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)The shooting of Samuel DuBose occurred during a traffic stop for a missing front license plate on July 19, 2015, in Cincinnati, Ohio. DuBose, a black man, was fatally shot by Ray Tensing, a white University of Cincinnati police officer. Tensing shot DuBose when he started his car and, according to Tensing, began to drive off. Tensing stated that he was being dragged when his arm became caught in the car. Prosecutors said that footage from Tensing's bodycam showed that he was not dragged, and, on July 29, a grand jury indicted him on charges of murder and voluntary manslaughter. He was then fired from the police department.
As far as I can see, BLM is far more a loose movement than an activist organization, little more than Hands up, don't shoot. That's what the first sentence says, a movement. Is there a spokesperson for BLM? Any widely recognized national leadership? Does BLM have financing or lobbyists? Is there anything preventing me from declaring myself a member of Black Lives Matter, just because I feel like it? If I then protest the Killing of John Doe and invoke the BLM name, and some RS reports that I did so (without necessarily endorsing the connection), does that constitute a BLM protest? What is the criterion for inclusion in the protests table?
I noted that Eric Harris is mentioned in the lead but is not in the table. So I went looking for references, using "eric harris" "black lives matter". I gave up after the first three or four; they mention both in the same story, hence the Google hit, but they don't make a clear connection. Maybe I need to look deeper, but it looks to me like the association is made by the reporter/columnist, not by BLM. To my mind, that's not enough for inclusion, and I wonder how many of the existing entries are based on such a tenuous connection. ― Mandruss ☎ 10:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Hey. Recently I
removed a not insignificant amount of text about Bernard Sanders in the 'description and events' section. I believe those sections are
synthesis and against our policies on original research. It is stated in the link I've provided that we are not to "combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources.
". I believe that mentioning unrelated biographical information about Sanders in relation to the recent incident is purely placed there in an attempt to imply the conclusion that the interruption of his speech was a poor move on the part of the activists, especially when phrased as "The protestors claimed [...] despite the fact that
". I do not believe that interrupting his speech was a wise move, however, we do not include information in wikipedia articles simply because they are 'facts'. If reliable sources talk about Sanders civil rights policies and actions in relation to the activists interrupting his speech, we should include it- we should however not go out of our way to paint them as stupid if reliable sources do not discuss it in this way (remember that we aim for
verifiability not truth). As such, I would ask
Miunouta to selfrevert his edit which reintroduced this language and unrelated information.
PeterTheFourth (
talk)
07:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't see Soros being mentioned in this article, who funded both the Clinton campaign and BLM (indirectly). Shouldn't that be added somewhere especially considering the notable, growing attention the BLM movement is getting for attacking Bernie Sanders while giving Hillary Clinton a pass?
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html?intcmp=hpft#/v/4382576076001
Seems a bit white-washed from this article. Cowicide ( talk) 19:55, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi not sure where to post this, but the edits made by 72.176.56.38 are at best irrelevant to the BLM page, as BLM is a response to state violence towards black lives, rather than intraracial crime, I think they're intentionally misleading. This IP has also been editing a number of other pages with very questionable input. Gracefulpuffin ( talk) 12:09, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
The opening paragraph's last sentence said "Numerous" media organizations have referred to BLM as "a new civil rights movement." "Numerous" gives the impression that many media outlets share this view, yet only 3 sources were cited. I've changed "Numerous" to "Some" to better reflect the number of sources. This can always be changed back if an editor finds more sources.
I've also tried to make the lead more balanced by noting that other RS have declared it a "terrorist group" and a "hate group." Scaleshombre ( talk) 01:09, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
The section Deaths inspiring the movement needs references that state unambiguously that the listed deaths inspired BLM, otherwise they will be removed. Original research is not allowed. I tagged the section yesterday, but someone has already removed the tag without addressing the issue. In a similar vein, the NAVBOX Template:Deaths inspiring Black Lives Matter, is problematic. Many of the articles linked make no mention of BLM. Again, this is an original research issue and a WP:NPOV issue.- Mr X 12:09, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I added the table back, unaware of this talk page discussion. I think we should look at each entry and see if an independent source relates it to the Black Lives Matter movement. I have not made a thorough review of each and every entry, but those that I checked seemed to be OK. I'll start with the first two and can take a further look when time permits.
MrX makes a fair point that "inspires" is problematic, I am changing the header to "protested by". Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:44, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Patrisse Cullors says "Actually, I think the first set of uprisings came with the murder of Oscar Grant. That was our politicization." when asked "Did this movement grow out of the death of Mike Brown?" by Vice magazine. [1] Doesn't that make it clear where the BlackLivesMatter movement started? I'm new. I apologize if I'm adding to this talk incorrectly. MiltownkidZEE ( talk) 15:14, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
BLM founder Alicia Garza cites Assata Shakur, the convicted killer of a state trooper, as one of the seminal influences on the movement in her article "A Herstory of the #BlackLivesMatter Movement." Shouldn't this be mentioned, at least in passing, given the growing discussion in the media about BLM's possible connection to recent cop killings? I don't think it's appropriate for us to make an explicit link between Shakur's influence in BLM and these killings. That would be OR. But we should at least mention Shakur's role as one of the inspirations for the movement. Seems pretty important within the overall context of BLM and the issues it deals with. What do you think? -- Scaleshombre ( talk) 03:15, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
There is a short paragraph Response to All Lives Matter in this article, but it seems to be taken for granted that the reader knows what All Lives Matter is. Is it, like Black Lives Matter, an "American Movement" which has received media attention? Are there well-known people standing behind it? Is it a hashtag? The motto of a pro-life (i.e., anti- abortion) group? (It seems to me that it isn't, but we need a short explanation. Not on the discussion page, but in the article itself.)
-- Austrian ( talk) 07:35, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I missed the part where people were going into businesses and harrasing white people that were eating or shopping. That seems like it should be important to cover all bases of the movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.154.127 ( talk) 16:59, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
The section List of deaths protested by Black Lives Matter is mainly about the deaths and not about Black Lives Matter. The only mention of Black Lives Matter is in the Trayvon Martin entry. I think the section should be rewritten to orient it toward Black Lives Matter. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 03:38, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Here's a couple more to add to the one above. I got the info from a source in the third item of the list.
And if anyone wants to jump in and continue in this way, you're very welcome to do that. I'll wait until someone does before continuing. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 02:40, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
I moved two of the above three items into the section Description and events. The third item was already there. I moved the List of names into the See also section. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 19:35, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
From the lead of the Wikipedia policy WP:NOR,
There is a major problem regarding this for the material in the column headed by "Description and aftermath" because sources used for that material do not mention the Black Lives Matter movement, except possibly for those column entries for Trayvon Martin, Dontre Hamilton, Tony Robinson, and Samuel DuBose. -- Bob K31416 ( talk) 14:57, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
I think the long Garza quote re-added by User:Aliceba is unnecessary. What do you think? -- JumpLike23 (talk) 23:38, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
The issue is that 'Black Lives Matter' apparently includes an unwritten asterisk, meaning there's a criteria for who counts as 'black', therefore, whose life matters, as subject to approval, resulting in a caste system where some black lives matter, and others do not, or one person's race outweighs another's civil, and Constitutional rights. I will continue saying All Lives Matter, because that also includes my life, as well as those of others who didn't meet the approval, or remain socially vulnerable due to economic, or political disadvantage. A claim to anti-racism can't be made where the use of racial status to violate, and exploit another is advocated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:0:7B00:CC4C:81F8:BB52:4806 ( talk) 09:54, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The lede as written is unbalanced, giving the impression that BLM only speaks up for clear-cut victims of police misconduct. Yet the case that really launched BLM as a movement -- and one which BLM continues to draw attention to -- involves a death, that of Michael Brown, that's widely regarded as justified under the circumstances. The lede should reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scaleshombre ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
It's implication by omission. The lead's partially true -- BLM does protest shootings of black people at the hands of police. But that doesn't adequately summarize the scope of its protests. BLM protests not just shootings, but other types of police-related deaths of African-Americans. And deaths that occur in a variety of circumstances -- everything from clearly unjustified killings, to tragic but unintended killings, to justified use of force in self-defense. Then there's the mention of Sandra Bland dying "at the hands of police officers." This is blatantly untrue. She died in custody, apparently of suicide. Scaleshombre ( talk) 06:24, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: the lead generally needs to be expanded to better cover the article since it has been expanded.-- JumpLike23 (talk) 18:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Quite a few of the locations of protests, just looking at the photos on the front side of this page, seem to be at sites associated with gentrification - I wonder if this bears mentioning somewhere in the article.-- Pharos ( talk) 19:32, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Black lives matters isn't just a a movement for cis gendered black males as the media would like the paint it as.
http://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
#BlackLivesMatter was created in 2012 after Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman, was acquitted for his crime, and dead 17-year old Trayvon was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder. Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our de-humanization, #BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes.
It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.
When we say Black Lives Matter, we are broadening the conversation around state violence to include all of the ways in which Black people are intentionally left powerless at the hands of the state. We are talking about the ways in which Black lives are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity. How Black poverty and genocide is state violence. How 2.8 million Black people are locked in cages in this country is state violence. How Black women bearing the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families is state violence. How Black queer and trans folks bear a unique burden from a hetero-patriarchal society that disposes of us like garbage and simultaneously fetishizes us and profits off of us, and that is state violence. How 500,000 Black people in the US are undocumented immigrants and relegated to the shadows. How Black girls are used as negotiating chips during times of conflict and war. How Black folks living with disabilities and different abilities bear the burden of state sponsored Darwinian experiments that attempt to squeeze us into boxes of normality defined by white supremacy, and that is state violence.
#BlackLivesMatter is working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. We affirm our contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression. We have put our sweat equity and love for Black people into creating a political project–taking the hashtag off of social media and into the streets. The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.
BlackWomenMatter BlackGirlsMatter BlackGayLivesMatter BlackBiLivesMatter BlackBoysMatter BlackQueerLivesMatter BlackMenMatter BlackLesbiansMatter BlackTransLivesMatter BlackImmigrantsMatter BlackIncarceratedLivesMatter BlackDifferentlyAbledLivesMatter
AHC300 ( talk) 18:23, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
This is not the place to air your grievances
|
---|
On top of the page completely misleading in it's version of history. It is written in a inflammatory manner meant to incite violence. And it uses derogatory terms which would have caused any other page to be removed. The use of the term queer blacks would have been red flagged and used to remove most other pages on Wiki. The omission of the real creator of the group, a leftist socialist is very telling. There is nothing grass roots about the group as it has been proven that most of the protesters in the Zimmerman incident were bused in with the cost being covered by the anti capitalist billionaire. There little wonder why this page was locked so it could not be corrected. |
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncrdbl1 ( talk • contribs) 04:03, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
The term QUEER is used on the site and is a term known to be derogatory in nature to those living an alternative life style. Your own page even differentiates between blacks who live an alternative life style and all other races. Which mean this is a racist organization since it only believes that those of a certain race should be allowed certain protection. BLM was not form as a result of the Zimmerman act of self defense. It was created as a reaction to LOSING the trumped up case against Zimmerman. Even with a judge who allowed evidence in the case to be presented which normally would not be allowed the jury still did not by into the weak case. Took an activist DA to even get it through a grand jury and should have ended in summary judgement for acquittal. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ncrdbl1 (
talk •
contribs)
04:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Link here, by proportion of population and by proportions of homicide offenders by race, blacks are killed by police less than whites. A pertinent source that must be cited in this article. Wajajad ( talk) 19:02, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Wonder why BLM was not in Mississippi when a black man was driven off the road and killed and his car mate severally inured in the crash. After his car was attacked by those who do not agree with him on issues. I guess BLM only if a white is involved and a black man being ran off the road for political reasons by a car load of blacks do not fit their agenda. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ncrdbl1 (
talk •
contribs)
04:32, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
How can a slogan be debunked? they are using the slogan--that's it. -- JumpLike23 (talk) 05:09, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Black Lives Matter has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Bmb8aq ( talk) 03:29, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Since the material has now been replaced twice I thought I would start this section to try to talk about why I believe it should not be included as is without any citations. The sections put in by the student editor make references to living people. Per the BLP guidelines those claims should always be sourced and any unsourced claim should be removed immediately. I have now done this again to comply with BLP guidelines until this can be sorted out. The student editor is more than welcome to retrieve the text of the edit and continue working on it in their own user space but it is my opinion that it is not only not ready for a live article it is a BLP violation to continue having it.
Pinging those involved with this: @ Chesar48, Scaleshombre, Jumplike23, Zpeopleheart, and Pharos:
-- Stabila711 ( talk) 06:43, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
--@@ Stabila711: Can you clarify what you mean by BLP? LH2015 15:34, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
With @@ Zpeopleheart: reversion I believe that the editor is getting close to an edit war without going to the talk page. Editor continues to trot forward without improving the controversial additions or moving to talk page.-- JumpLike23 (talk) 06:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
If you were to set up a list of items that makes a group a terrorist organization then BLM meets most if not all of them. Included in this is the members opening calling for the killing of police and members actually killing police. While they can claim they never actually said go kill cops. The terminology used leave little to the imagination. It is clearly meant as code word for kill cops.
http://collectingmythoughts.blogspot.com/2015/08/black-lives-matter-marchers-call-for.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ncrdbl1 ( talk • contribs) 04:18, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
There have been other protests that we need to add like Laquan Mcdonald, the school protests and many more. We need to add the donald trump rally assault, expand all lives matter section. -- JumpLike23 (talk) 06:45, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
I added the following to the article:
Conservatives pointed out statistics from the federal government which showed that 93% of black murder victims were murdered by other blacks, and wondered why Black Lives Matter never protested against these murders. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]
I'm not purple today ( talk) 21:16, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
Martin Luther King’s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) and the Black Panther Party were very prominent black civil rights movements mid-20th century. The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) was a newer radical but still non-violent spin-off of the SCLC. A particular difference is that they were more inclusive towards women. Ella Baker is a key figure who comments on the hierarchical structure of the SCLC and their lack of female representation. SNCC was fueled by the fires of young black students fighting for their rights. Quote by Ashley Yates of Millennial Activists describes her experience: “We definitely realize that we’re standing on the shoulders of the people who came before us.” The Black Live matters is a natural progression of the black liberation movement.
Vann R. Newkirk II, a member of BLM, shares his experience with a former member of the SNCC, Julian Bond, describes the inter-generational gap. Bond is a product of his time, one of the differences that Newkirk describes is clothing. Bond states that in order to be heard these new young activists need to buy a suit. A suit can be seen as a compromise of values or assimilation, if you will. Newkirk then describes that the black lives matter is the successor of SNCC with even more “radical” views and are even more inclusive. All while wearing what he likes to wear.
I like this but do you have a source? -- JumpLike23 (talk) 20:26, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
We should add a section "Deaths caused by Black Lives Matter" and list the increased number of black people murdered in cities where the police have scaled back patrols and aggressive policing in response to Black Lives Matter, as well as the 90% increase in police officers being attacked and murdered by black people inspired by this movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.96.212 ( talk) 17:03, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
The movement started as a hashtag and some people have gone so far as to attempt to organize and form an entity, but this is not rational. BLM is not an organization, it's a movement. Movements are typically loosely governed by mob rule, not small groups of individuals. To state that the movements ideology consists of set parameters is highly illogical. We have all seen footage of many BLM supporters openly advocating black supremacy and racism, so I fail to see how a collective that is swayed by a mob can claim to have a leader.
The whole country criticizes the movement... and yet you have "editors" making sure that no controversy gets put on the article...
I believe that an NPOV tag needs to get put up in the article. -- JT2958 ( talk) 06:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
I added a criticism section based on some of the more prevalent criticisms I've seen about the movement. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 05:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
There needs to be a controversy section. The entire article is biased and lacks neutrality. There is controversy against Black Lives Matter and everyone knows it... it's been all over the news and in op-ed's.
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/2/9247901/black-lives-matter-mlk
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/02/black-lives-matter-s-big-mistake.html
JT2958 ( talk) 01:36, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
I think a politician response section to BLM could also go under a controversy section. Many politicians have responded to BLM, the most well known case was with Bernie Sanders. However, controversy does exist, and it's not just civilians and news companies producing it: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/mike-huckabee-black-lives-matter-martin-luther-king/index.html http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/02/nikki-haley-says-black-lives-matter-movement-is-endangering-black-lives/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/02/scott-walker-alleges-a-rise-in-anti-police-rhetoric-under-president-obama/ JT2958 ( talk) 09:10, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Responses from senators and governors are typically more noteworthy than the perspectives of a news agency. Some of the responses are criticisms... hence why I put it in this section. JT2958 ( talk) 15:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the shooting of BLM protesters by 4 white men — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:8B02:433F:B947:9F85:282D:724F ( talk) 20:35, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
This article does not state what the BLM movement want done about anything at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.44.225.24 ( talk) 06:46, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Definition reads "campaigns against violence toward black people". Unless there is an evidence and links that they ever stood against the black-on-black violence or maybe hispanic-on-black violence, the definition should be changed to "campaigns against the violence of while police toward black people". The section "Black on black shootings" confirms my point. 73.71.174.75 ( talk) 02:32, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm curious - why is there no mention of how BLM movement is funded? Is it self-funded, from small donations by activists? Is it funded by Russia, in order to promote discord in the US, like they do with far-right in Europe?
Does anyone really know? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.102.11.6 ( talk) 01:54, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
new editor. this article intro is poorly written.
original:
alternative:
Wafflesmatter ( talk) 20:37, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
Where is the discussion of the obvious but unmentioned Communist influence and agitprop at work here? It is well known that Communists exploit and inflame racial tensions with the aim of undermining the 'system' using minorities as pawns. 107.77.229.230 ( talk) 22:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)