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1. Hello. Under DNA evidence, at the bottom, the following can be read: "The results of the Haensch study have since been confirmed [...]". This is very confusing. What is the Haensch study? The first time 'Haensch' is mentioned is in that sentence, so what is being referred to exactly? Is it the October 2010 study or the studies following it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.232.26 ( talk) 20:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
2. Furthermore new evidence in London suggests that the plague was a pneumonic plague rather than a bubonic plague. For more information visit these two sources: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26770334 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/29/black-death-not-spread-rat-fleas-london-plague — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.236.193 ( talk) 18:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
3. The European outbreak section currently states: "then spread to Bjørgvin (modern Bergen) and Iceland.[19]" First of all the citation seems to be broken, but more importantly the disease didn't reach Iceland until 1402 http://books.google.is/...
In the section "Migration" under the header "Populations in crisis"(in the second paragraph, second line), there is a piece of text that says (as of time of writing) '..., which increases susceptibility to infections due to weakened immunity.' it should say '..., which increased susceptibility to infections due to weakened immunity.' since the rest of the sentence is in the past tense and this word('increases') is in the present tense so the sentence is "under-going"(can't find a better word to describe it) tense-switching, which is a grammatical error. 82.47.40.66 ( talk) 16:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
The Black Death (1347-52) is generally regarded as the start of a second pandemic of plague which lasted right up to the 1840s. However the article has extended to the whole topic which I think is unfortunate for several reasons: the 14th century outbreak is important enough for a whole article; the nature of the symptoms and spread of the disease is significantly different in the initial outbreaks and the returns over the centuries; the rest of the pandemic is squashed into a single crammed section; and it marginalizes non-European aspects, particularly middle-eastern but also China.
I'd therefore suggest this article is cut right back to focus almost entirely on the first 14th century outbreak and the rest be moved to a new article Second plague pandemic which could refer back to this article. It could also include some of the detail in the section on Plague (disease) which is currently where the redirect links to. There is also a minor section in Bubonic plague which covers the same ground.
This would be a major editing job, which is why it's worth getting some agreement before starting. Chris55 ( talk) 11:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Your re-organisation of the article (4 August 2014) is a tremendous improvement. Congratulations. Apuldram ( talk) 13:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Because of the "lock" on this article I note with caution only one point: "The Black Death" (1348 - 1349)also damaged the population of Ireland and Richard 11 in 1394 arrived and tried to revive things. [1]Osborne 14:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
References
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Whether the question of possible biological warfare in the siege of Caffa should be in the lead/lede depends on its significance in the spread of the plague to Europe. Most commentators, such as Wheelis (2002) and Benedictow (2004) (see pp 50-53) are agreed that it is insignificant. Another example is Fossier in vol 3 of the Cambridge Illustrated History of the Middle Ages: "The Mongols may even have deliberately catapulted corpses of plague over the walls of Caffa, the Genoese depot in the Crimea, which they besieged in 1344. A minor detail." (p52-3)
I don't have access to the papers mentioned by Rjensen, but Wheelis gives a good translation of the account by de Mussis which is the sole source of the story. It has many problems. One of them is the assumption that the Mongols had a modern understanding of the idea of infection, something which was not understood in the west before the nineteenth century. Also dead plague bodies are not particularly infectious and it took a year for the disease to travel to Europe. There is evidence from Russian accounts that the plague was raging in the Golden Horde several years before the siege and this particular incidence may have been one of several routes the disease took. Modern DNA analysis hasn't yet even shown whether the epidemic came via the Steppes or by sea.
But the biggest problem of putting this in the lead is the implication that the horrendous consequences of 1348-51 were caused by a middle-eastern act of bioterrorism. This is almost certainly not the case. The disease was spreading fast in any case and there are multiple cases of sailors bringing it to Europe. Hence it does not deserve this prominence. By all means add these references in the appropriate place, but they don't deserve to be in the lead. Chris55 ( talk) 10:08, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Article states that the first Black Death case in North America was in 1900. It has been postulated that the Black Death was with other diseases responsible for the depopulation of the native population in the Americas around the time of Columbus. Cladymoor 21:15, 4 November 2014 (UTC) 73.38.52.193 ( talk)
The traditional "blocked gut" theory of flea/plague transmission, the one I grew up with, seems to have been overturned in recent years. Early work suggested that the plague bacillus could not be transmitted for several weeks after the host flea was itself was infected. More recent work indicates that "early stage" transmission of the plague bacillus is possible before the gut becomes blocked. This seems significant because a lot of people funny ideas about the spread of plague seem to hinge on the "blocked gut" theory making rapid spread of the disease "impossible". I'm not a biologist, but maybe someone who is wants to take this up and update the Causes section appropriately.
See [paywalled]: Eisen RJ, Eisen L, Gage KL (2009) Studies of vector competency and efficiency of North American fleas for Yersinia pestis: State of the field and future research needs. J Med Entomol 46(4): 737–744. http://www.crossref.org/iPage?doi=10.1603%2F033.046.0403
From the Abstract:
...The majority of these early transmission studies focused on the blocked flea mechanism of transmission, which typically does not occur until >2–3 wk after the flea becomes infected. Recent studies have challenged the paradigm that Y. pestis is usually spread by blocked fleas by demonstrating that numerous flea species, including the oriental rat flea Xenopsylla cheopis, which was the focus of the early classical studies on blocked flea transmission, are capable of “early-phase” transmission during the first few days after becoming infected and before a complete blockage can form...
Atani ( talk) 01:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
It has been briefly discussed here in the talk page on a couple of different occasions, but it seems that no solid evidence has been presented to support the claims that Poland was able to escape the Black Death relatively unscathed. The spread map "File:Blackdeath2.gif" also reflects this assertion. However, other sources like this one by Ole Jørgen Benedictow make the claim that Poland was in fact impacted in a large way by the plague. Does anyone know of good sources that contradict this one? AdventurousSquirrel ( talk) 13:20, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I've come across an article from the World Health Organization that describes the re-occurrence of the Black Death as of today. Would it be possible to mention it anywhere in the topic? I honestly don't know where to add such information.
Thanks...
Tibbydibby ( talk) 22:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
This image of tonsured clerics and a bishop, from comes the Omne bonum, compiled by an Exchequer clerk, James le Palmer, in the 14th century.
Looking at the image alone, we see a group of clerics being instructed by a bishop. Their status in unclear, as not only monks were tonsured. His gesture is one of teaching, not blessing. They are clearly not suffering from a rapidly incapaciting disease, such as plague. Moreover, the red blotches are not plague buboes but the usual visual representation of leprosy.
Turning to the text, we find that it is a discussion of what should be done if a clergyman is unable to fulfil his clerical functions because he has a debilitating disease. Leprosy is often mentioned in the text as the key example of such a disease.
The section of this encyclopedic manual is entitled "De clerico debilitato ministrante sequitur videre." On ministration by a disabled cleric.
2601:D:2D00:671:8872:F1E2:115A:7340 ( talk) 21:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC) David Harley
The famed children's song "Ring A ring a rosies" was invented at the time of the black plague to warn children. "Ring Around the Rosie" - black ring around red area on skin "pocket full of posies" - people would carry posies around in their pockets to smell because the smell of death was so strong "ashes, ashes" - ran out of room to bury bodies so people were sometimes burned "we all fall down" - originally "we all fall dead" but later changed to sound more cheery
When you get sick, naturally, your lymph glands swell a little because they are overworked. Although it is uncommon to get it in the groin area, it IS common to get it in the armpits and on the neck. It DOES NOT mean you have the black plague.
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87.82.212.210 ( talk) 12:19, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
The Black Death was a plague that was spread by rats. Fleas bit the rats then bit us and thats how the plague was spread. Also, the plague wasn't just one disease it was made of many different ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.68.39 ( talk) 23:53, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
in the introduction the article states: ...the Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60% of Europe's total population...
in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics ...30% to 70% of population... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmidtdominik30 ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
The percentage in this article is sourced. Perhaps the figure in the other article should be changed to agree, and the source given. Apuldram ( talk) 10:18, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
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206.213.165.12 ( talk) 19:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC) page tdud
pls no accepterino
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Christakos is not the only author of reference [39]. The complete list of authors is George Christakos, Ricardo A. Olea, Marc L. Serre, Hwa-Lung Yu, Lin-Lin Wang 130.11.37.76 ( talk) 13:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Most reputable source I could find (WHO) gives a death toll (50 million) that is lower than the range currently on wikipedia (75-200 million) http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs267/en/ AlexPenson ( talk) 03:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)AlexPenson
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In the first section of Black Death, there is a conflict in the number of estimated deaths due to the plague. It begins by saying 75-200 million died. At the end of the section, it says that world population went from 450 million to 350-375 million. This is a contradiction in numbers. The correct world population should read "250-375 million".
Toddwp ( talk) 16:29, 15 September 2015 (UTC) 9/15/2015
Toddwp ( talk) 16:29, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Could there be a legend or more descriptive caption added to the graphic at the beginning of the article?
Reading the article it becomes clear that the graphic is showing spread of the disease as well as some level of intensity or percent of the population affected. As it is, it is very easy to misunderstand the graphic as indicating that the areas around Milan and Poland weren't affected by the plague at all, rather than being less affected than other areas in Europe. Especially since it's the only graphic, and is at the top of the page it would be could to be as clear as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.115.48 ( talk) 03:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
The study, published in Cell (open access article): http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674%2815%2901322-7
A batch of reliable sources covering these new discoveries (Bing search): http://www.bing.com/search?q=Bronze+Age+plague&filters=tnTID%3a%226F07D3F0-1748-4639-AEB1-FC8E3CDF828F%22+tnVersion%3a%221128051%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%2222%22+tnOrder%3a%229da0f099-a830-40a1-b8b5-f4338c5d4ff2%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=3091&efirst=20
IBT quote: "The Plague of Athens that devastated Ancient Greece in 430BC and the Antonine Plague that killed an estimated five million people in the Roman Empire may well have been caused by, well, the plague." http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/plague-athens-caused-by-plague-evidence-shows-infections-bronze-age-humans-1525231
Very interesting. Thank you and all the best, Wordreader ( talk) 16:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Since a majority of people in Europe were addicted to opium during the middle ages is it not possible that the opium addicts were the people who got the plague? Other places where there was heavy opium us also seem to get the plague, like 19th century China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.45.21.159 ( talk) 01:50, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
The black death arose on Mongolia which is in North Asia, not Central Asia so this is wrong. Akmal94 ( talk) 05:58, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
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rey was the king of all of them
198.97.62.30 ( talk) 19:36, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
At school we were taught that Jews practised ritual cleansing and therefore were less susceptible to the plague. Their lower mortality rate would then have made them appear suspicious in the eyes of their Christian neighbours. Thus leading to accusations of guilt and to persecution. I do not have any expertise or literature to check whether this theory is correct - can anyone help? It would then be worth a mention in the Wikipedia article, which does not really explain why the persecutions happened. 86.170.123.32 ( talk) 19:25, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
This article is totally lacking the words Bubonic plague, which makes it very impossible to search for in Google. Most references at the bottom of the page refer to the event as the Bubonic plague, as it is colloquially known in the United States. I can only surmise there's some scholarly argument against usage of the phrase "Bubonic plague", however, that scholarly argument probably shouldn't apply to an article about what we know today as the Bubonic plague. Maybe a footnote correcting the reader is a more appropriate path to history revisionism. 67.0.34.219 ( talk) 19:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Already links here and is supported by the title of one of the sources. Needs mention in the lead. — LlywelynII 10:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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More Pictures specifically this one https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/40/1c/32/401c32669057dfa32c9d124f1ae6defa.jpg
✗ Not done That image doesn't seem to add anything useful to the article. Also, most users won't be able to read it. What language is it in? Apuldram ( talk) 15:09, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
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It's been a while since I edited Wikipedia so I wasn't sure where to put a link to these free EPUBs. The files are on Dropbox, is that site blacklisted on Wikipedia? EPUB files are much easier to read on a smaller screen device than say, a PDF from archive.org. The books I have in EPUB format are:
Can someone reply and let me know the best way to do this? Thanks. Chuckr30 ( talk) 13:12, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I reverted the 'citation needed' added by user:Smasongarrison and intended to added a comment that the citation has been supplied below, but the revert went through without giving me the chance to add the comment. Dudley Miles ( talk) 11:10, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
You could also add the comment to user:Smasongarrison's talk page. Dimadick ( talk) 07:49, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
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The Black Death is now a video game on Steam. It seeks to emulate the daily life of people living in the time of the black death, and maintains a historical touch. Players can be Hunters, Clergymen, Bandits, Beggars, etc. All are susceptible to getting the plague as well. The game also pays homage to history by including many boarded up houses containing plague victims, which was a common practice. Perhaps this can go with the popular culture, "See Also" section? Kikero91 ( talk) 04:09, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done: It’s not clear what changes you would like made. Please request the change in a format: "add X" or "delete X" or "change X to Y".
Also, video games are not encyclopaedic.
Apuldram (
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Apuldram, did you forget we have many articles on videogames? Dimadick ( talk) 09:17, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
it'n not clear to me how's "resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people and peaking in Europe in the years 1346–1353": the entire european population in 1346 was estimated about 75-100 millions... the plague reduced it from 30% to 60% in less then 5 years (see this as online source)
it has little sense speaking of 200 million people (in Europe?) using online generic sources (wired, bbc...) which obviosly cite other sources, maybe circularly Wikipedia itself... morever below is written "In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350–375 million in the 14th century"- Shivanarayana ( talk) 12:44, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Historians are making a guess and the contemporary chroniclers were also making guesses. No one actually knows if many people died or if only a small number of people died and know one actually knows what they died from. It may have been catholic priests and other manipulative people who lied about people dying from the plague to make people scared so that the manipulative people had more control over them. Exploiting people who have a fear of death is common amongst religious leaders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.161.200.5 ( talk) 04:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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In the "Causes" section. "A transmissible disease will spread easily in such conditions" (reason: Grammar, remove the will, it's in the past, not in the future).
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The second mod (corrected formatting) doesn't work. Apuldram ( talk) 17:57, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
The results of the Haensch study have since been confirmed and amended. Based on genetic evidence derived from Black Death victims in the East Smithfield burial site in England, Schuenemann et al. concluded in 2011 "that the Black Death in medieval Europe was caused by a variant of Y. pestis that may no longer exist."[41] A study published in Nature in October 2011 sequenced the genome of Y. pestis from plague victims and indicated that the strain that caused the Black Death is ancestral to most modern strains of the disease.[5]
DNA taken from 25 skeletons ...
The first and third sentence (and possibly the second) refer to the East Smithfield burial site. The first and third sentences appear to contradict each other (although the first is qualified with the word "may"). I think that the article would be improved if a authoritative paper summarising the finds about the site was used that assess and clarifies what the most recent thoughts are now that the 2011 research is six years old. If this was done the 2011 papers could be removed. -- PBS ( talk) 09:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
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Hi, the article says: "The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the Kingdom of Poland". This is incorrect. E.g. Kraków/Cracow - the capital at the time - had the biggest commercial market square in the medieval Europe and was a major commercial hub of Eeas-West and North-South trade routes to the Baltics, Asia, Africa etc. Despite being far inland (though by a amjor river) it was even part of the Hansa League. The main reason for plague having a lesser effect on Poland was that King Casimir the Great (not a random name) established quarantines at the borders and of the cities. Cited source: e.g. already mentioned: [1]
"During Kazimierz's reign, the Black Death, a pandemic infection, swept across Europe, killing millions. But Poland established quarantines at its borders, and the plague skirted Poland almost entirely."
Please change:
FROM:
"The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the Kingdom of Poland, the majority of the Basque Country, isolated parts of Belgium and the Netherlands, and isolated alpine villages throughout the continent."
TO:
"The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the majority of the Basque Country, isolated parts of Belgium and the Netherlands, and isolated alpine villages throughout the continent. The Kingdom of Poland experienced a much lesser effect due to King Casimir the Great establishing quarantines at the borders and isolation of the cities."
Pawel777 ( talk) 22:39, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
Maybe we need to look at this from a behavioral perspective. Maybe the flees and other vermin(what proof is there that it was just flees?) preferred the shadow of the mountains. Maybe they didn't like certain kinds of anabatic and katabatic solar winds. Source: Look at a map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.76.124.97 ( talk) 15:43, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
A new fourth paragraph has been added to the lead.
This is ungrammatical and the sources are uncertain RS. The first two sentences are correct, so far as I know, for western Europe, but not Eastern Europe and Italy. The last sentence is wrong. The early Renaissace was already under way in the mid-fourteenth century and the Black Death is just one of the contributory factors in its rise. However, the new paragraph does fill a serious gap. The long term consequences of the Black Death were profound, and not covered at all in the article. (although there is a separate article Consequences of the Black Death). In Western Europe repeated outbreaks of plague led to persistent labour shortages and the decline of feudalism, arguably leading to the rise of early modern Europe, although I see that the Black Death is not mentioned in this article. I am inclined to delete the paragraph, but it does need replacing by someone who knows more about the period than me. Hchc2009 I think this is your period? Do you have a view on these points? Dudley Miles ( talk) 12:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Todays news is stating that a new study has found the Black Death was spread by humans, not rats. See here for several news articles on it. Some of the articles talk of multiple recent studies all making the same finding. It seems worthwhile of inclusion, although I will leave that to someone who has far greater experience on the subject than I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.217.62 ( talk) 13:47, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
In terms of the Origin and alternative explanations, it seems confusing to have such a heavy paragraph at the end of the article compared to the opening paragraph talking about the actual origins of the plague. As a reader, leading with facts about how the Black Death occurred establishes a certain feeling in my head. By the time I get to the bottom, it's almost confusing and too controversial to have a larger paragraph talking about alternatives.( weewass ( talk) 20:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC))
This article was very well written which was apparent when I went to view the sources of the article and it stated that only established users could make edits. This is a very important topics due to the effects it had so I understand why this article is protected from just anyone being able to post. Everything in this article is relevant to the topic, even providing additional information that was not found in the textbook such as the name of the bacterium that caused the plague including DNA evidence to support that claim. i couldn't point out any information that wasn't relevant to this topic. In addition to being very informational, the article was not biased whatsoever and simply presented facts about the plague, its origin, and its path. Although, some people believe the plague was not spread by rodents and was spread by humans so this may cause a bit of controversy depending on what you believe. However, because there was evidence to support the claim, I found it to be completely unbiased. They even went as far to present alternative theories to the origin on the plague, making it more a factual text than a heavily swayed opinion.
The article is featured in several WikiProjects, ranging from medicine, to deaths, to European History. It was rated a B-class which means there is definitely room for improvement although it is of high caliber. I would consider it to be a very significant article to Wikipedia and a great one to analyze.
Each section contained an equal amount of material and enough to make it credible and significant to the rest of the article. What I enjoyed most about the article was that many ideas were further elaborated in the upcoming sections that I was to read. The references links led me to several scientific journals explaining experiments performed to verify the origin of the plague. Every link I opened took me straight to a journal or article page of a reliable source. I would definitely put my trust into these articles and feel confident believing their information. There was no clear bias in any of them so I am definitely willing to believe these articles.
The only source of discrepancy that I observed from the talk page is what I expected, the source of the plague. Some people provided links to articles claiming that the plague was spread by humans and not rats. Although, when I clicked the links I wasn't quite sure to believe these articles over the ones I had read previously in the references section. Perhaps this topic can be updated slightly due to new technologies and new findings on whether or not rats were the true origin.
Wikipedia definitely goes more in depth about the subject than what we covered in class. This was expected due to its lasting effects. I found the sections on reoccurrences interesting since it's not something we necessarily covered in class. I was surprised to know that there were a few more outbreaks after the initial one. The question that I would like to ask is "What were some of the cures doctors attempted to use?". That was a topic that I didn't see covered anywhere in the article and I would like to know what they did to try to combat the plague. Jajuare2 ( talk) 03:58, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
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Change "to a Chinese trading post in Crimea, called Kaffa, used by the Republic of Genoa." to "to a trading post in Crimea, called Kaffa, controlled by the Republic of Genoa." in the section Middle Eastern Outbreak. The idea that Kaffa was somehow Chinese is utterly nonsensical. 106.70.28.0 ( talk) 10:09, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
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121.45.66.237 ( talk) 00:19, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
the black death started by a disease called Bacterium Yersinia pestis
Under the heading "Consequences" the sentence: "In London approximately 62,000 people died between the years between 1346 and 1353."
This page presents a pretty Eurocentric view of the Black Death. While it's effects on the Middle East are touched on, it mostly discusses the diseases effects on Europe. India, China, and Asia are barely mentioned at all, and not nearly to the level of detail that Europe gets. I feel like this article could use a more world-wide perspective. Adding details to make it more apparent how the disease affected areas and cities outside of Europe. Even the map provided only shows the plague's spread through Europe and the Near East. East Asia is completely excluded. I Feel Tired ( talk) 03:10, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
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Change "There appears to have been several introductions into Europe." To "There appear to have been several introductions into Europe." 2601:C6:4101:8052:281A:3F83:3D73:B8DD ( talk) 18:02, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Israel was at some point deleted from the list of (modern-day) countries in the Middle East experiencing outbreak, should be re-included Revsaw ( talk) 11:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
According to the article (or at least what I understand from it), The Plague seems to have diminished (significantly) in Western Europe from 1671. Why is that so?
Also, there’s nothing (that I could see) about the spread with European exploration (colonisation/ invasion). Especially for the Dutch (et al) in South Africa, India, East Indies. Was The Plague a major problem on exploration ships? Slave ships?
MBG02 ( talk) 19:54, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
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The Bubonic plague appeared in the Chinese province of Hubei and rapidly spread in the neighboring provinces: Jiangxi, Shanxi, Hunan, Guangdong, Guangxi, Henan et Suiyuan, the latter being disputed between the Mongol and Chinese empires . Ggggregggg ( talk) 12:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
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Change first sentence in second paragraph:- "The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia or East Asia, where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[6]" to:- "The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia, where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[6]"
This corrects it to match the reference source (6) "Black Death". BBC – History. 17 February 2011. 2A00:23C5:CD98:F200:8888:55F1:1C7F:55D3 ( talk) 20:21, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Pandemics, regarding this? Going by what one study stated is a WP:Undue issue, especially if it contrasts the mainstream view. Please don't WP:Ping me if you reply. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 01:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
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Since this article is mostly about the 14th century pandemic, it might be good to include the following piece of information under the Plague Doctor image (Consequences section; /info/en/?search=Black_Death#/media/File:Paul_F%C3%BCrst,_Der_Doctor_Schnabel_von_Rom_(coloured_version).png):
Source: /info/en/?search=Plague_doctor_costume#History Pseudohendrix ( talk) 09:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@ CaroleHenson: Here's an article with 3,300,000 views in the past 30 days, and it is again poorly organized, with different parts written by different people. It also seems that some of it was written by people for whom English was not the first language, or they're poor translations. I've done some touchup and will do more. Can you help? deisenbe ( talk) 22:50, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
This should be a ~15,000 word Featured Article. —— SN 54129 09:26, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Presently, the article's lead says that Florence took centuries to recover from Black Death. But this is contradicted by the Oxford Dictionary of the Middle Ages (2010 edition). It says "tax records for Florence suggest that as many as 80 per cent of the citizens died in four months alone in 1348" and then says further down that "immediately after the Black Death, places such as Florence vigorously recouped losses through quick rises in fertility and emigration from their hinterland. Curiously, this demographic pattern changed in the 15th century. Fertility fell perhaps because the disease, although now less lethal, killed greater proportions of those who would replenish population—the young—and cities attracted fewer immigrants because the scarcity of rural labour eventually meant improved conditions on the land." Who is right and how should the article deal with this? GPinkerton ( talk) 19:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
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The wikipedia article Black Death writes that the ”The Black Death probably originated in Central Asia or East Asia,...”. The latest referenced article [6] actually refutes the origin being East Asia.
Suggestion, change current Wikipedia entry:
to the following:
In 2010 scientist have argued that The Black Death probably originated in Central Asia or East Asia,[7][8][9][10] from where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[11] From there, it was most likely carried by fleas living on the black rats that traveled on Genoese merchant ships, spreading throughout the Mediterranean Basin, reaching the rest of Europe via the Italian peninsula. Latest research in 2019 however have since found DNA evidence that the plague could have existed in Europe some 5000 years ago. The new found DNA evidence suggest that the second pandemic outbreak, the Black Death, probably originated in central Asia, and moved east into China. [6]
The first referenced source [6], the article by Julia Hollingsworth, CNN Updated 0246 GMT November 24, 2019 (website: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/23/asia/plague-china-history-intl-hnk-scli/index.html) actually debunks the current wikipedia paragraph mentioned above. She writes that previous theories have located the plague’s origin in East Asia. Maybe she is referring to the sources [8][9][10], which has been released back in 2010. Source [8] published Oct. 31, 2010 by Nicholas Wade, source [9] released Jul 20, 1998 and source [10] published November 1, 2010 by Nicholas Wade.
Then she continues and quotes the interviewed expert Winston Black and says that those claims made a decade ago have been refuted by new scientific evidence.
And the idea that the second pandemic, the Black Death, could have started in China is unlikely, Black said. DNA evidence extracted from the skeletons of medieval plague victims, and genetic analysis of the bacteria, suggest that the outbreak probably originated in central Asia, and moved east into China, and west into Europe via trade routes, said Black.”
Add another source as reference, a podcast with Winston Black retrieved on March 27, 2020. https://www.medievalists.net/2020/03/black-death-covid-19/ Chung Le85 ( talk) 17:16, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
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Find: and this probably destabilised feudalism Change to: and this probably destabilized feudalism 79.149.151.37 ( talk) 21:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
1. Hello. Under DNA evidence, at the bottom, the following can be read: "The results of the Haensch study have since been confirmed [...]". This is very confusing. What is the Haensch study? The first time 'Haensch' is mentioned is in that sentence, so what is being referred to exactly? Is it the October 2010 study or the studies following it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.109.232.26 ( talk) 20:14, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
2. Furthermore new evidence in London suggests that the plague was a pneumonic plague rather than a bubonic plague. For more information visit these two sources: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26770334 http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/29/black-death-not-spread-rat-fleas-london-plague — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.236.193 ( talk) 18:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
3. The European outbreak section currently states: "then spread to Bjørgvin (modern Bergen) and Iceland.[19]" First of all the citation seems to be broken, but more importantly the disease didn't reach Iceland until 1402 http://books.google.is/...
In the section "Migration" under the header "Populations in crisis"(in the second paragraph, second line), there is a piece of text that says (as of time of writing) '..., which increases susceptibility to infections due to weakened immunity.' it should say '..., which increased susceptibility to infections due to weakened immunity.' since the rest of the sentence is in the past tense and this word('increases') is in the present tense so the sentence is "under-going"(can't find a better word to describe it) tense-switching, which is a grammatical error. 82.47.40.66 ( talk) 16:45, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
The Black Death (1347-52) is generally regarded as the start of a second pandemic of plague which lasted right up to the 1840s. However the article has extended to the whole topic which I think is unfortunate for several reasons: the 14th century outbreak is important enough for a whole article; the nature of the symptoms and spread of the disease is significantly different in the initial outbreaks and the returns over the centuries; the rest of the pandemic is squashed into a single crammed section; and it marginalizes non-European aspects, particularly middle-eastern but also China.
I'd therefore suggest this article is cut right back to focus almost entirely on the first 14th century outbreak and the rest be moved to a new article Second plague pandemic which could refer back to this article. It could also include some of the detail in the section on Plague (disease) which is currently where the redirect links to. There is also a minor section in Bubonic plague which covers the same ground.
This would be a major editing job, which is why it's worth getting some agreement before starting. Chris55 ( talk) 11:16, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Your re-organisation of the article (4 August 2014) is a tremendous improvement. Congratulations. Apuldram ( talk) 13:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Because of the "lock" on this article I note with caution only one point: "The Black Death" (1348 - 1349)also damaged the population of Ireland and Richard 11 in 1394 arrived and tried to revive things. [1]Osborne 14:56, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
References
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Whether the question of possible biological warfare in the siege of Caffa should be in the lead/lede depends on its significance in the spread of the plague to Europe. Most commentators, such as Wheelis (2002) and Benedictow (2004) (see pp 50-53) are agreed that it is insignificant. Another example is Fossier in vol 3 of the Cambridge Illustrated History of the Middle Ages: "The Mongols may even have deliberately catapulted corpses of plague over the walls of Caffa, the Genoese depot in the Crimea, which they besieged in 1344. A minor detail." (p52-3)
I don't have access to the papers mentioned by Rjensen, but Wheelis gives a good translation of the account by de Mussis which is the sole source of the story. It has many problems. One of them is the assumption that the Mongols had a modern understanding of the idea of infection, something which was not understood in the west before the nineteenth century. Also dead plague bodies are not particularly infectious and it took a year for the disease to travel to Europe. There is evidence from Russian accounts that the plague was raging in the Golden Horde several years before the siege and this particular incidence may have been one of several routes the disease took. Modern DNA analysis hasn't yet even shown whether the epidemic came via the Steppes or by sea.
But the biggest problem of putting this in the lead is the implication that the horrendous consequences of 1348-51 were caused by a middle-eastern act of bioterrorism. This is almost certainly not the case. The disease was spreading fast in any case and there are multiple cases of sailors bringing it to Europe. Hence it does not deserve this prominence. By all means add these references in the appropriate place, but they don't deserve to be in the lead. Chris55 ( talk) 10:08, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Article states that the first Black Death case in North America was in 1900. It has been postulated that the Black Death was with other diseases responsible for the depopulation of the native population in the Americas around the time of Columbus. Cladymoor 21:15, 4 November 2014 (UTC) 73.38.52.193 ( talk)
The traditional "blocked gut" theory of flea/plague transmission, the one I grew up with, seems to have been overturned in recent years. Early work suggested that the plague bacillus could not be transmitted for several weeks after the host flea was itself was infected. More recent work indicates that "early stage" transmission of the plague bacillus is possible before the gut becomes blocked. This seems significant because a lot of people funny ideas about the spread of plague seem to hinge on the "blocked gut" theory making rapid spread of the disease "impossible". I'm not a biologist, but maybe someone who is wants to take this up and update the Causes section appropriately.
See [paywalled]: Eisen RJ, Eisen L, Gage KL (2009) Studies of vector competency and efficiency of North American fleas for Yersinia pestis: State of the field and future research needs. J Med Entomol 46(4): 737–744. http://www.crossref.org/iPage?doi=10.1603%2F033.046.0403
From the Abstract:
...The majority of these early transmission studies focused on the blocked flea mechanism of transmission, which typically does not occur until >2–3 wk after the flea becomes infected. Recent studies have challenged the paradigm that Y. pestis is usually spread by blocked fleas by demonstrating that numerous flea species, including the oriental rat flea Xenopsylla cheopis, which was the focus of the early classical studies on blocked flea transmission, are capable of “early-phase” transmission during the first few days after becoming infected and before a complete blockage can form...
Atani ( talk) 01:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
It has been briefly discussed here in the talk page on a couple of different occasions, but it seems that no solid evidence has been presented to support the claims that Poland was able to escape the Black Death relatively unscathed. The spread map "File:Blackdeath2.gif" also reflects this assertion. However, other sources like this one by Ole Jørgen Benedictow make the claim that Poland was in fact impacted in a large way by the plague. Does anyone know of good sources that contradict this one? AdventurousSquirrel ( talk) 13:20, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
I've come across an article from the World Health Organization that describes the re-occurrence of the Black Death as of today. Would it be possible to mention it anywhere in the topic? I honestly don't know where to add such information.
Thanks...
Tibbydibby ( talk) 22:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
This image of tonsured clerics and a bishop, from comes the Omne bonum, compiled by an Exchequer clerk, James le Palmer, in the 14th century.
Looking at the image alone, we see a group of clerics being instructed by a bishop. Their status in unclear, as not only monks were tonsured. His gesture is one of teaching, not blessing. They are clearly not suffering from a rapidly incapaciting disease, such as plague. Moreover, the red blotches are not plague buboes but the usual visual representation of leprosy.
Turning to the text, we find that it is a discussion of what should be done if a clergyman is unable to fulfil his clerical functions because he has a debilitating disease. Leprosy is often mentioned in the text as the key example of such a disease.
The section of this encyclopedic manual is entitled "De clerico debilitato ministrante sequitur videre." On ministration by a disabled cleric.
2601:D:2D00:671:8872:F1E2:115A:7340 ( talk) 21:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC) David Harley
The famed children's song "Ring A ring a rosies" was invented at the time of the black plague to warn children. "Ring Around the Rosie" - black ring around red area on skin "pocket full of posies" - people would carry posies around in their pockets to smell because the smell of death was so strong "ashes, ashes" - ran out of room to bury bodies so people were sometimes burned "we all fall down" - originally "we all fall dead" but later changed to sound more cheery
When you get sick, naturally, your lymph glands swell a little because they are overworked. Although it is uncommon to get it in the groin area, it IS common to get it in the armpits and on the neck. It DOES NOT mean you have the black plague.
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87.82.212.210 ( talk) 12:19, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
The Black Death was a plague that was spread by rats. Fleas bit the rats then bit us and thats how the plague was spread. Also, the plague wasn't just one disease it was made of many different ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.68.39 ( talk) 23:53, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
in the introduction the article states: ...the Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60% of Europe's total population...
in this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics ...30% to 70% of population... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmidtdominik30 ( talk • contribs) 09:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
The percentage in this article is sourced. Perhaps the figure in the other article should be changed to agree, and the source given. Apuldram ( talk) 10:18, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
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206.213.165.12 ( talk) 19:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC) page tdud
pls no accepterino
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Christakos is not the only author of reference [39]. The complete list of authors is George Christakos, Ricardo A. Olea, Marc L. Serre, Hwa-Lung Yu, Lin-Lin Wang 130.11.37.76 ( talk) 13:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Most reputable source I could find (WHO) gives a death toll (50 million) that is lower than the range currently on wikipedia (75-200 million) http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs267/en/ AlexPenson ( talk) 03:17, 8 September 2015 (UTC)AlexPenson
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In the first section of Black Death, there is a conflict in the number of estimated deaths due to the plague. It begins by saying 75-200 million died. At the end of the section, it says that world population went from 450 million to 350-375 million. This is a contradiction in numbers. The correct world population should read "250-375 million".
Toddwp ( talk) 16:29, 15 September 2015 (UTC) 9/15/2015
Toddwp ( talk) 16:29, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
Could there be a legend or more descriptive caption added to the graphic at the beginning of the article?
Reading the article it becomes clear that the graphic is showing spread of the disease as well as some level of intensity or percent of the population affected. As it is, it is very easy to misunderstand the graphic as indicating that the areas around Milan and Poland weren't affected by the plague at all, rather than being less affected than other areas in Europe. Especially since it's the only graphic, and is at the top of the page it would be could to be as clear as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.115.48 ( talk) 03:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
The study, published in Cell (open access article): http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674%2815%2901322-7
A batch of reliable sources covering these new discoveries (Bing search): http://www.bing.com/search?q=Bronze+Age+plague&filters=tnTID%3a%226F07D3F0-1748-4639-AEB1-FC8E3CDF828F%22+tnVersion%3a%221128051%22+segment%3a%22popularnow.carousel%22+tnCol%3a%2222%22+tnOrder%3a%229da0f099-a830-40a1-b8b5-f4338c5d4ff2%22&FORM=BSPN01&crslsl=3091&efirst=20
IBT quote: "The Plague of Athens that devastated Ancient Greece in 430BC and the Antonine Plague that killed an estimated five million people in the Roman Empire may well have been caused by, well, the plague." http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/plague-athens-caused-by-plague-evidence-shows-infections-bronze-age-humans-1525231
Very interesting. Thank you and all the best, Wordreader ( talk) 16:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Since a majority of people in Europe were addicted to opium during the middle ages is it not possible that the opium addicts were the people who got the plague? Other places where there was heavy opium us also seem to get the plague, like 19th century China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.45.21.159 ( talk) 01:50, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
The black death arose on Mongolia which is in North Asia, not Central Asia so this is wrong. Akmal94 ( talk) 05:58, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
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rey was the king of all of them
198.97.62.30 ( talk) 19:36, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
At school we were taught that Jews practised ritual cleansing and therefore were less susceptible to the plague. Their lower mortality rate would then have made them appear suspicious in the eyes of their Christian neighbours. Thus leading to accusations of guilt and to persecution. I do not have any expertise or literature to check whether this theory is correct - can anyone help? It would then be worth a mention in the Wikipedia article, which does not really explain why the persecutions happened. 86.170.123.32 ( talk) 19:25, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
This article is totally lacking the words Bubonic plague, which makes it very impossible to search for in Google. Most references at the bottom of the page refer to the event as the Bubonic plague, as it is colloquially known in the United States. I can only surmise there's some scholarly argument against usage of the phrase "Bubonic plague", however, that scholarly argument probably shouldn't apply to an article about what we know today as the Bubonic plague. Maybe a footnote correcting the reader is a more appropriate path to history revisionism. 67.0.34.219 ( talk) 19:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Already links here and is supported by the title of one of the sources. Needs mention in the lead. — LlywelynII 10:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
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More Pictures specifically this one https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/40/1c/32/401c32669057dfa32c9d124f1ae6defa.jpg
✗ Not done That image doesn't seem to add anything useful to the article. Also, most users won't be able to read it. What language is it in? Apuldram ( talk) 15:09, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
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It's been a while since I edited Wikipedia so I wasn't sure where to put a link to these free EPUBs. The files are on Dropbox, is that site blacklisted on Wikipedia? EPUB files are much easier to read on a smaller screen device than say, a PDF from archive.org. The books I have in EPUB format are:
Can someone reply and let me know the best way to do this? Thanks. Chuckr30 ( talk) 13:12, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I reverted the 'citation needed' added by user:Smasongarrison and intended to added a comment that the citation has been supplied below, but the revert went through without giving me the chance to add the comment. Dudley Miles ( talk) 11:10, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
You could also add the comment to user:Smasongarrison's talk page. Dimadick ( talk) 07:49, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
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The Black Death is now a video game on Steam. It seeks to emulate the daily life of people living in the time of the black death, and maintains a historical touch. Players can be Hunters, Clergymen, Bandits, Beggars, etc. All are susceptible to getting the plague as well. The game also pays homage to history by including many boarded up houses containing plague victims, which was a common practice. Perhaps this can go with the popular culture, "See Also" section? Kikero91 ( talk) 04:09, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
Not done: It’s not clear what changes you would like made. Please request the change in a format: "add X" or "delete X" or "change X to Y".
Also, video games are not encyclopaedic.
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Apuldram, did you forget we have many articles on videogames? Dimadick ( talk) 09:17, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
it'n not clear to me how's "resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people and peaking in Europe in the years 1346–1353": the entire european population in 1346 was estimated about 75-100 millions... the plague reduced it from 30% to 60% in less then 5 years (see this as online source)
it has little sense speaking of 200 million people (in Europe?) using online generic sources (wired, bbc...) which obviosly cite other sources, maybe circularly Wikipedia itself... morever below is written "In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350–375 million in the 14th century"- Shivanarayana ( talk) 12:44, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Historians are making a guess and the contemporary chroniclers were also making guesses. No one actually knows if many people died or if only a small number of people died and know one actually knows what they died from. It may have been catholic priests and other manipulative people who lied about people dying from the plague to make people scared so that the manipulative people had more control over them. Exploiting people who have a fear of death is common amongst religious leaders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.161.200.5 ( talk) 04:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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In the "Causes" section. "A transmissible disease will spread easily in such conditions" (reason: Grammar, remove the will, it's in the past, not in the future).
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The second mod (corrected formatting) doesn't work. Apuldram ( talk) 17:57, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
The results of the Haensch study have since been confirmed and amended. Based on genetic evidence derived from Black Death victims in the East Smithfield burial site in England, Schuenemann et al. concluded in 2011 "that the Black Death in medieval Europe was caused by a variant of Y. pestis that may no longer exist."[41] A study published in Nature in October 2011 sequenced the genome of Y. pestis from plague victims and indicated that the strain that caused the Black Death is ancestral to most modern strains of the disease.[5]
DNA taken from 25 skeletons ...
The first and third sentence (and possibly the second) refer to the East Smithfield burial site. The first and third sentences appear to contradict each other (although the first is qualified with the word "may"). I think that the article would be improved if a authoritative paper summarising the finds about the site was used that assess and clarifies what the most recent thoughts are now that the 2011 research is six years old. If this was done the 2011 papers could be removed. -- PBS ( talk) 09:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
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Hi, the article says: "The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the Kingdom of Poland". This is incorrect. E.g. Kraków/Cracow - the capital at the time - had the biggest commercial market square in the medieval Europe and was a major commercial hub of Eeas-West and North-South trade routes to the Baltics, Asia, Africa etc. Despite being far inland (though by a amjor river) it was even part of the Hansa League. The main reason for plague having a lesser effect on Poland was that King Casimir the Great (not a random name) established quarantines at the borders and of the cities. Cited source: e.g. already mentioned: [1]
"During Kazimierz's reign, the Black Death, a pandemic infection, swept across Europe, killing millions. But Poland established quarantines at its borders, and the plague skirted Poland almost entirely."
Please change:
FROM:
"The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the Kingdom of Poland, the majority of the Basque Country, isolated parts of Belgium and the Netherlands, and isolated alpine villages throughout the continent."
TO:
"The plague was somewhat less common in parts of Europe that had smaller trade relations with their neighbours, including the majority of the Basque Country, isolated parts of Belgium and the Netherlands, and isolated alpine villages throughout the continent. The Kingdom of Poland experienced a much lesser effect due to King Casimir the Great establishing quarantines at the borders and isolation of the cities."
Pawel777 ( talk) 22:39, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
Maybe we need to look at this from a behavioral perspective. Maybe the flees and other vermin(what proof is there that it was just flees?) preferred the shadow of the mountains. Maybe they didn't like certain kinds of anabatic and katabatic solar winds. Source: Look at a map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.76.124.97 ( talk) 15:43, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
A new fourth paragraph has been added to the lead.
This is ungrammatical and the sources are uncertain RS. The first two sentences are correct, so far as I know, for western Europe, but not Eastern Europe and Italy. The last sentence is wrong. The early Renaissace was already under way in the mid-fourteenth century and the Black Death is just one of the contributory factors in its rise. However, the new paragraph does fill a serious gap. The long term consequences of the Black Death were profound, and not covered at all in the article. (although there is a separate article Consequences of the Black Death). In Western Europe repeated outbreaks of plague led to persistent labour shortages and the decline of feudalism, arguably leading to the rise of early modern Europe, although I see that the Black Death is not mentioned in this article. I am inclined to delete the paragraph, but it does need replacing by someone who knows more about the period than me. Hchc2009 I think this is your period? Do you have a view on these points? Dudley Miles ( talk) 12:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Todays news is stating that a new study has found the Black Death was spread by humans, not rats. See here for several news articles on it. Some of the articles talk of multiple recent studies all making the same finding. It seems worthwhile of inclusion, although I will leave that to someone who has far greater experience on the subject than I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.74.217.62 ( talk) 13:47, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
In terms of the Origin and alternative explanations, it seems confusing to have such a heavy paragraph at the end of the article compared to the opening paragraph talking about the actual origins of the plague. As a reader, leading with facts about how the Black Death occurred establishes a certain feeling in my head. By the time I get to the bottom, it's almost confusing and too controversial to have a larger paragraph talking about alternatives.( weewass ( talk) 20:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC))
This article was very well written which was apparent when I went to view the sources of the article and it stated that only established users could make edits. This is a very important topics due to the effects it had so I understand why this article is protected from just anyone being able to post. Everything in this article is relevant to the topic, even providing additional information that was not found in the textbook such as the name of the bacterium that caused the plague including DNA evidence to support that claim. i couldn't point out any information that wasn't relevant to this topic. In addition to being very informational, the article was not biased whatsoever and simply presented facts about the plague, its origin, and its path. Although, some people believe the plague was not spread by rodents and was spread by humans so this may cause a bit of controversy depending on what you believe. However, because there was evidence to support the claim, I found it to be completely unbiased. They even went as far to present alternative theories to the origin on the plague, making it more a factual text than a heavily swayed opinion.
The article is featured in several WikiProjects, ranging from medicine, to deaths, to European History. It was rated a B-class which means there is definitely room for improvement although it is of high caliber. I would consider it to be a very significant article to Wikipedia and a great one to analyze.
Each section contained an equal amount of material and enough to make it credible and significant to the rest of the article. What I enjoyed most about the article was that many ideas were further elaborated in the upcoming sections that I was to read. The references links led me to several scientific journals explaining experiments performed to verify the origin of the plague. Every link I opened took me straight to a journal or article page of a reliable source. I would definitely put my trust into these articles and feel confident believing their information. There was no clear bias in any of them so I am definitely willing to believe these articles.
The only source of discrepancy that I observed from the talk page is what I expected, the source of the plague. Some people provided links to articles claiming that the plague was spread by humans and not rats. Although, when I clicked the links I wasn't quite sure to believe these articles over the ones I had read previously in the references section. Perhaps this topic can be updated slightly due to new technologies and new findings on whether or not rats were the true origin.
Wikipedia definitely goes more in depth about the subject than what we covered in class. This was expected due to its lasting effects. I found the sections on reoccurrences interesting since it's not something we necessarily covered in class. I was surprised to know that there were a few more outbreaks after the initial one. The question that I would like to ask is "What were some of the cures doctors attempted to use?". That was a topic that I didn't see covered anywhere in the article and I would like to know what they did to try to combat the plague. Jajuare2 ( talk) 03:58, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
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Change "to a Chinese trading post in Crimea, called Kaffa, used by the Republic of Genoa." to "to a trading post in Crimea, called Kaffa, controlled by the Republic of Genoa." in the section Middle Eastern Outbreak. The idea that Kaffa was somehow Chinese is utterly nonsensical. 106.70.28.0 ( talk) 10:09, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
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121.45.66.237 ( talk) 00:19, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
the black death started by a disease called Bacterium Yersinia pestis
Under the heading "Consequences" the sentence: "In London approximately 62,000 people died between the years between 1346 and 1353."
This page presents a pretty Eurocentric view of the Black Death. While it's effects on the Middle East are touched on, it mostly discusses the diseases effects on Europe. India, China, and Asia are barely mentioned at all, and not nearly to the level of detail that Europe gets. I feel like this article could use a more world-wide perspective. Adding details to make it more apparent how the disease affected areas and cities outside of Europe. Even the map provided only shows the plague's spread through Europe and the Near East. East Asia is completely excluded. I Feel Tired ( talk) 03:10, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
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Change "There appears to have been several introductions into Europe." To "There appear to have been several introductions into Europe." 2601:C6:4101:8052:281A:3F83:3D73:B8DD ( talk) 18:02, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Israel was at some point deleted from the list of (modern-day) countries in the Middle East experiencing outbreak, should be re-included Revsaw ( talk) 11:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
According to the article (or at least what I understand from it), The Plague seems to have diminished (significantly) in Western Europe from 1671. Why is that so?
Also, there’s nothing (that I could see) about the spread with European exploration (colonisation/ invasion). Especially for the Dutch (et al) in South Africa, India, East Indies. Was The Plague a major problem on exploration ships? Slave ships?
MBG02 ( talk) 19:54, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
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The Bubonic plague appeared in the Chinese province of Hubei and rapidly spread in the neighboring provinces: Jiangxi, Shanxi, Hunan, Guangdong, Guangxi, Henan et Suiyuan, the latter being disputed between the Mongol and Chinese empires . Ggggregggg ( talk) 12:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
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Change first sentence in second paragraph:- "The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia or East Asia, where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[6]" to:- "The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia, where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[6]"
This corrects it to match the reference source (6) "Black Death". BBC – History. 17 February 2011. 2A00:23C5:CD98:F200:8888:55F1:1C7F:55D3 ( talk) 20:21, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Pandemics, regarding this? Going by what one study stated is a WP:Undue issue, especially if it contrasts the mainstream view. Please don't WP:Ping me if you reply. Flyer22 Frozen ( talk) 01:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
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Since this article is mostly about the 14th century pandemic, it might be good to include the following piece of information under the Plague Doctor image (Consequences section; /info/en/?search=Black_Death#/media/File:Paul_F%C3%BCrst,_Der_Doctor_Schnabel_von_Rom_(coloured_version).png):
Source: /info/en/?search=Plague_doctor_costume#History Pseudohendrix ( talk) 09:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
@ CaroleHenson: Here's an article with 3,300,000 views in the past 30 days, and it is again poorly organized, with different parts written by different people. It also seems that some of it was written by people for whom English was not the first language, or they're poor translations. I've done some touchup and will do more. Can you help? deisenbe ( talk) 22:50, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
This should be a ~15,000 word Featured Article. —— SN 54129 09:26, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Presently, the article's lead says that Florence took centuries to recover from Black Death. But this is contradicted by the Oxford Dictionary of the Middle Ages (2010 edition). It says "tax records for Florence suggest that as many as 80 per cent of the citizens died in four months alone in 1348" and then says further down that "immediately after the Black Death, places such as Florence vigorously recouped losses through quick rises in fertility and emigration from their hinterland. Curiously, this demographic pattern changed in the 15th century. Fertility fell perhaps because the disease, although now less lethal, killed greater proportions of those who would replenish population—the young—and cities attracted fewer immigrants because the scarcity of rural labour eventually meant improved conditions on the land." Who is right and how should the article deal with this? GPinkerton ( talk) 19:04, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
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The wikipedia article Black Death writes that the ”The Black Death probably originated in Central Asia or East Asia,...”. The latest referenced article [6] actually refutes the origin being East Asia.
Suggestion, change current Wikipedia entry:
to the following:
In 2010 scientist have argued that The Black Death probably originated in Central Asia or East Asia,[7][8][9][10] from where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343.[11] From there, it was most likely carried by fleas living on the black rats that traveled on Genoese merchant ships, spreading throughout the Mediterranean Basin, reaching the rest of Europe via the Italian peninsula. Latest research in 2019 however have since found DNA evidence that the plague could have existed in Europe some 5000 years ago. The new found DNA evidence suggest that the second pandemic outbreak, the Black Death, probably originated in central Asia, and moved east into China. [6]
The first referenced source [6], the article by Julia Hollingsworth, CNN Updated 0246 GMT November 24, 2019 (website: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/23/asia/plague-china-history-intl-hnk-scli/index.html) actually debunks the current wikipedia paragraph mentioned above. She writes that previous theories have located the plague’s origin in East Asia. Maybe she is referring to the sources [8][9][10], which has been released back in 2010. Source [8] published Oct. 31, 2010 by Nicholas Wade, source [9] released Jul 20, 1998 and source [10] published November 1, 2010 by Nicholas Wade.
Then she continues and quotes the interviewed expert Winston Black and says that those claims made a decade ago have been refuted by new scientific evidence.
And the idea that the second pandemic, the Black Death, could have started in China is unlikely, Black said. DNA evidence extracted from the skeletons of medieval plague victims, and genetic analysis of the bacteria, suggest that the outbreak probably originated in central Asia, and moved east into China, and west into Europe via trade routes, said Black.”
Add another source as reference, a podcast with Winston Black retrieved on March 27, 2020. https://www.medievalists.net/2020/03/black-death-covid-19/ Chung Le85 ( talk) 17:16, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
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Find: and this probably destabilised feudalism Change to: and this probably destabilized feudalism 79.149.151.37 ( talk) 21:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)