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Archive 1 |
Hi, this is my first article about a horse in australia that could be the best of all time (there is some specualtion about this) not sure what i should do to get rid of CSD A1 rating, seems like there is enough info compared to other horses that are listed on wiki Franga87 ( talk) 03:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
Currently Black Caviar is a redirect to Caviar, but if you look at the history of the redirect, it was originally an article for this horse, but was boldly turned into a redirect with no discussion that I can see. So, in my opinion, Black Caviar the horse is the primary topic (I googlehits is a bit of a weak argument, but it seems pretty clear cut) and should simply have a hatnote pointing to the caviar article. Seeking other opinions before I start a requested move though. Anyone have one? Jenks24 ( talk) 13:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 11:35, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar — Now rated the best racehorse in the world, so proposing per Wikipedia:Primary topic. Interesting to note the redirect Black Caviar was originally created as an article about this horse, but was boldly turned into a redirect to Caviar. Jenks24 ( talk) 02:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I manually typed in Black Caviar to get to this page. It redirects to Caviar, which helpfully informs me if I wanted Black Caviar (funnily enough I did, since that's what I typed in), go here. Pure wikipedia.
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:48, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar – The horse is the clear primary topic. A Google search for "black caviar" has nine out of ten results on the first page relating to the horse, including the first four. A Google News search returns similar results. This article has 3258 views over the past 30 days; the food redirect has only 224. In any case, the food article should not have "caviar" anyway, so this article should be moved to "Black Caviar" and the food redirect to "Black caviar" Ignorant Armies ? ! 08:55, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved, per previous RM and no clear consensus here either. However Black Caviar has been redirected to the horse instead of the fish eggs. Black Caviar (horse) should not be seen as excessive disambiguation Mike Cline ( talk) 18:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) →
Black Caviar – The use of title case to refer to the food is against
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) and
Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Animals, plants, and other organisms. I created a redirect at
Black caviar to
Caviar, but
Black Caviar should refer to the horse, with a hatnote to
Caviar for anyone who types in title case. The horse is back racing and still undefeated and possibly the biggest sportstar in Australia at the moment, I get no caviar related hits on the first page of a google.com.au search, only one on google.com.
The-Pope (
talk)
16:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I undid the change in target of Black Caviar. If consensus is against having the horse be the primary topic of "Black Caviar", then consensus is against having the horse be the primary topic of "Black Caviar". There is no point in not moving the article but retargetting the redirect. Move the article if needed, but there is no point in having any "base name title" redirect to "base name title (qualifier)". -- JHunterJ ( talk) 01:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I noticed when watching Black Caviar run at Ascot today that in the list of runners she was shown as a 6-year-old. So should the race count as the first race of her 6-year-old career? When do Australian horses have their "official" birthday? I know that in the Northern Hemisphere it's 1st January. Maybe when she returns to Australia she'll revert to being five again! JH ( talk page) 20:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I think the race record section might look better as a single table, like this
Result | Date | Race | Venue | Group | Distance | Weight (kg) | Jockey | Time | Winner/2nd | Margins |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Won | 18 Apr 2009 | 2yo Hcp Restricted | Flemington | NA | 1000 m | 51.5 | J. Noske | 0:56.63 | 2nd – Kwassa Kwassa | 5.0 x 0.3 |
Won | 2 May 2009 | Blue Sapphire Stakes | Caulfield | LR | 1200 m | 57.5 | J. Noske | 1:09.76 | 2nd – Demerit | 6.0 x 0.2 |
Won | 22 Aug 2009 | Crockett Stakes | Moonee Valley | LR | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:11.15 | 2nd – Miraculous Miss | 3.0 x 0.1 |
Won | 5 Sep 2009 | Danehill Stakes | Flemington | G2 | 1200 m | 54 | L. Nolen | 1:09.96 | 2nd – Wanted | 0.8 x 0.5 |
Won | 22 Jan 2010 | Australia Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 53 | L. Nolen | 1:10.18 | 2nd – Here De Angels | 2.3 x 1.7 |
Won | 9 Oct 2010 | Schillaci Stakes | Caulfield | G2 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:56.68 | 2nd – Winter King | 1.3 x 2.2 |
Won | 23 Oct 2010 | Schweppes Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:11.01 | 2nd – Hot Danish | 5.5 x 0.8 |
Won | 6 Nov 2010 | Patinack Farm Classic | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | B. Melham | 1:07.96 | 2nd – Star Witness | 4.0 x 2.3 |
Won | 19 Feb 2011 | Lightning Stakes | Flemington | G1 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:57.20 | 2nd – Hay List | 3.3 x 1.7 |
Won | 12 Mar 2011 | Newmarket Handicap | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 58 | L. Nolen | 1:07.36 | 2nd – Crystal Lily | 3.0 x 0.8 |
Won | 25 Mar 2011 | William Reid Stakes | Moonee Valley | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.00 | 2nd – Crystal Lily | 1.8 x 1.2 |
Won | 9 Apr 2011 | T J Smith Stakes | Randwick | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.71 | 2nd – Hay List | 2.8 x 5.0 |
Won | 14 May 2011 | BTC Cup | Doomben | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.85 | 2nd – Hay List | 2.0 x 4.8 |
Won | 8 Oct 2011 | Schillaci Stakes | Caulfield | G2 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:56.73 | 2nd - Karuta Queen | 4.3 x 0.4 |
Won | 22 Oct 2011 | Schweppes Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.13 | 2nd - Doubtful Jack | 6.0 x 1.3 |
Won | 5 Nov 2011 | Patinack Farm Classic | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.03 | 2nd - Buffering | 2.8 x 3.8 |
Won | 27 Jan 2012 | Australia Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:09.44 | 2nd - Zedi Knight | 4.3 x 4.3 |
Won | 11 Feb 2012 | C F Orr Stakes | Caulfield | G1 | 1400 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:25.14 | 2nd - Southern Speed | 3.3 x 3.8 |
Won | 18 Feb 2012 | Lightning Stakes | Flemington | G1 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:55.53 | 2nd - Hay List | 1.8 x 3.8 |
Won | 28 Apr 2012 | Robert Sangster Stakes | Morphettville | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.65 | 2nd - Sistine Angel | 4.5 x 0.1 |
Won | 12 May 2012 | Goodwood Handicap | Morphettville | G1 | 1200 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:10.32 | 2nd - We're Gonna Rock | 1.3 x 3.0 |
Won | 23 June 2012 | Diamond Jubilee Stakes | Ascot, England | G1 | 1200 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:14.10 | 2nd - Moonlight Cloud | 0.1 x 0.5 |
What do you think? Tigerboy1966 14:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. Consensus has shifted considerably on this, and disambiguation via capitalization is perfectly acceptable per WP:PRECISION. Cúchullain t/ c 17:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar – Parenthetical disambiguation should be used only when natural disambiguation is "not possible," according to WP:PRECISION. The capitalization of "Black Caviar" the horse distinguishes it from "black caviar" the food, so that is not the case here. Kauffner ( talk) 15:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
{{Archive box|bot=MiszaBot I|age=3|units=months|auto=long|search=yes}}
I've just noticed that when the Ho Chi Minh City IP set up the archive hiding the 3 previous RMs immediately before the recent RM (not labelled RM 4 when set up), the IP came back again for a second bite of the cherry and
deleted the archive search box which the IP's first edit had caused to be set up. Hopefully pasting in the deleted template will work, test.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
02:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Hi, this is my first article about a horse in australia that could be the best of all time (there is some specualtion about this) not sure what i should do to get rid of CSD A1 rating, seems like there is enough info compared to other horses that are listed on wiki Franga87 ( talk) 03:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
Currently Black Caviar is a redirect to Caviar, but if you look at the history of the redirect, it was originally an article for this horse, but was boldly turned into a redirect with no discussion that I can see. So, in my opinion, Black Caviar the horse is the primary topic (I googlehits is a bit of a weak argument, but it seems pretty clear cut) and should simply have a hatnote pointing to the caviar article. Seeking other opinions before I start a requested move though. Anyone have one? Jenks24 ( talk) 13:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 11:35, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar — Now rated the best racehorse in the world, so proposing per Wikipedia:Primary topic. Interesting to note the redirect Black Caviar was originally created as an article about this horse, but was boldly turned into a redirect to Caviar. Jenks24 ( talk) 02:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I manually typed in Black Caviar to get to this page. It redirects to Caviar, which helpfully informs me if I wanted Black Caviar (funnily enough I did, since that's what I typed in), go here. Pure wikipedia.
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:48, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar – The horse is the clear primary topic. A Google search for "black caviar" has nine out of ten results on the first page relating to the horse, including the first four. A Google News search returns similar results. This article has 3258 views over the past 30 days; the food redirect has only 224. In any case, the food article should not have "caviar" anyway, so this article should be moved to "Black Caviar" and the food redirect to "Black caviar" Ignorant Armies ? ! 08:55, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved, per previous RM and no clear consensus here either. However Black Caviar has been redirected to the horse instead of the fish eggs. Black Caviar (horse) should not be seen as excessive disambiguation Mike Cline ( talk) 18:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) →
Black Caviar – The use of title case to refer to the food is against
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) and
Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Animals, plants, and other organisms. I created a redirect at
Black caviar to
Caviar, but
Black Caviar should refer to the horse, with a hatnote to
Caviar for anyone who types in title case. The horse is back racing and still undefeated and possibly the biggest sportstar in Australia at the moment, I get no caviar related hits on the first page of a google.com.au search, only one on google.com.
The-Pope (
talk)
16:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I undid the change in target of Black Caviar. If consensus is against having the horse be the primary topic of "Black Caviar", then consensus is against having the horse be the primary topic of "Black Caviar". There is no point in not moving the article but retargetting the redirect. Move the article if needed, but there is no point in having any "base name title" redirect to "base name title (qualifier)". -- JHunterJ ( talk) 01:02, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
I noticed when watching Black Caviar run at Ascot today that in the list of runners she was shown as a 6-year-old. So should the race count as the first race of her 6-year-old career? When do Australian horses have their "official" birthday? I know that in the Northern Hemisphere it's 1st January. Maybe when she returns to Australia she'll revert to being five again! JH ( talk page) 20:24, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I think the race record section might look better as a single table, like this
Result | Date | Race | Venue | Group | Distance | Weight (kg) | Jockey | Time | Winner/2nd | Margins |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Won | 18 Apr 2009 | 2yo Hcp Restricted | Flemington | NA | 1000 m | 51.5 | J. Noske | 0:56.63 | 2nd – Kwassa Kwassa | 5.0 x 0.3 |
Won | 2 May 2009 | Blue Sapphire Stakes | Caulfield | LR | 1200 m | 57.5 | J. Noske | 1:09.76 | 2nd – Demerit | 6.0 x 0.2 |
Won | 22 Aug 2009 | Crockett Stakes | Moonee Valley | LR | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:11.15 | 2nd – Miraculous Miss | 3.0 x 0.1 |
Won | 5 Sep 2009 | Danehill Stakes | Flemington | G2 | 1200 m | 54 | L. Nolen | 1:09.96 | 2nd – Wanted | 0.8 x 0.5 |
Won | 22 Jan 2010 | Australia Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 53 | L. Nolen | 1:10.18 | 2nd – Here De Angels | 2.3 x 1.7 |
Won | 9 Oct 2010 | Schillaci Stakes | Caulfield | G2 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:56.68 | 2nd – Winter King | 1.3 x 2.2 |
Won | 23 Oct 2010 | Schweppes Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:11.01 | 2nd – Hot Danish | 5.5 x 0.8 |
Won | 6 Nov 2010 | Patinack Farm Classic | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | B. Melham | 1:07.96 | 2nd – Star Witness | 4.0 x 2.3 |
Won | 19 Feb 2011 | Lightning Stakes | Flemington | G1 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:57.20 | 2nd – Hay List | 3.3 x 1.7 |
Won | 12 Mar 2011 | Newmarket Handicap | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 58 | L. Nolen | 1:07.36 | 2nd – Crystal Lily | 3.0 x 0.8 |
Won | 25 Mar 2011 | William Reid Stakes | Moonee Valley | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.00 | 2nd – Crystal Lily | 1.8 x 1.2 |
Won | 9 Apr 2011 | T J Smith Stakes | Randwick | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.71 | 2nd – Hay List | 2.8 x 5.0 |
Won | 14 May 2011 | BTC Cup | Doomben | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.85 | 2nd – Hay List | 2.0 x 4.8 |
Won | 8 Oct 2011 | Schillaci Stakes | Caulfield | G2 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:56.73 | 2nd - Karuta Queen | 4.3 x 0.4 |
Won | 22 Oct 2011 | Schweppes Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.13 | 2nd - Doubtful Jack | 6.0 x 1.3 |
Won | 5 Nov 2011 | Patinack Farm Classic | Flemington | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:08.03 | 2nd - Buffering | 2.8 x 3.8 |
Won | 27 Jan 2012 | Australia Stakes | Moonee Valley | G2 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:09.44 | 2nd - Zedi Knight | 4.3 x 4.3 |
Won | 11 Feb 2012 | C F Orr Stakes | Caulfield | G1 | 1400 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:25.14 | 2nd - Southern Speed | 3.3 x 3.8 |
Won | 18 Feb 2012 | Lightning Stakes | Flemington | G1 | 1000 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 0:55.53 | 2nd - Hay List | 1.8 x 3.8 |
Won | 28 Apr 2012 | Robert Sangster Stakes | Morphettville | G1 | 1200 m | 56.5 | L. Nolen | 1:10.65 | 2nd - Sistine Angel | 4.5 x 0.1 |
Won | 12 May 2012 | Goodwood Handicap | Morphettville | G1 | 1200 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:10.32 | 2nd - We're Gonna Rock | 1.3 x 3.0 |
Won | 23 June 2012 | Diamond Jubilee Stakes | Ascot, England | G1 | 1200 m | 57 | L. Nolen | 1:14.10 | 2nd - Moonlight Cloud | 0.1 x 0.5 |
What do you think? Tigerboy1966 14:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. Consensus has shifted considerably on this, and disambiguation via capitalization is perfectly acceptable per WP:PRECISION. Cúchullain t/ c 17:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Black Caviar (horse) → Black Caviar – Parenthetical disambiguation should be used only when natural disambiguation is "not possible," according to WP:PRECISION. The capitalization of "Black Caviar" the horse distinguishes it from "black caviar" the food, so that is not the case here. Kauffner ( talk) 15:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
{{Archive box|bot=MiszaBot I|age=3|units=months|auto=long|search=yes}}
I've just noticed that when the Ho Chi Minh City IP set up the archive hiding the 3 previous RMs immediately before the recent RM (not labelled RM 4 when set up), the IP came back again for a second bite of the cherry and
deleted the archive search box which the IP's first edit had caused to be set up. Hopefully pasting in the deleted template will work, test.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
02:41, 9 August 2012 (UTC)