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Can regulars start going through and adding wikilinks, correcting my mistakes and additional refs in the new 2021 Road to the Kentucky Derby? Its about this time we start getting interested with 6 months to go. Cheers! Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some minor updates on this page and came across from the main Prep races that the Jeff Ruby Stakes (Spiral Stakes) has had the qualification points raised to Championship series - Second Leg on par with main Derbies. I'm looking for any other reference before modifying this in the article, but this doesn't surprise me that Churchill Downs Inc. made a nice deal with Turfway Park due to the change of dates last year with Covid-19 problems. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we really want this category?
Category:Filmed deaths of animals
Stretchrunner (
talk) 22:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 20:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
I stumbled across a conversation between @ Montanabw: and @ Stretchrunner: that I intruded upon believing that the discussion should included to all who participate on this Project. Stretchrunner has the belief that when he creates, updates, or just edit a horse race table, if possible I do my best to find and replace Owner: Mrs. John Doe with showing only HER name. It's very hard to find a female first name but if one gets lucky and does, it can take many hours. I disagree with this approach given that changing the name from what was registered when the horse won the event. If the reference (especially in the period when women were not allowed to be owners) given indicates Mrs. Joe Brown or some pseudonym like when Merman who won the 1900 Ascot Gold Cup the name should stay. If the horse is registered to be owned for example by Mrs. John Magnier then that is what should be in the table. The link can go to who the person is but the registered name is given per the reference ( WP:V). Opening this up for discussion. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:21, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I have updated this article but I do not have admin privileges to move Royal Heroine Mile Stakes to Royal Heroine Stakes due to an existing REDIRECT. The event has been run as the Royal Heroine Stakes since 2014. An uncontested technical move has been requested. Can someone with admin privileges perform this move? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia( talk) 00:58, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 09:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey all, I'm new to the site but have created a few pages for Grand National Winners who haven't got one yet and am hoping to make one for them all. I've also started going through the winners and races and standardising them (especially infoboxes, flag icons, layout) as well as adding a Grand National Record table and Pedigree for each winning horse.
The pages I've made:
Looking for feedback, thanks!
Lankyant (
talk) 18:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Is it at all possible to add a 'latest race' link at the bottom of the infobox on the
Grand National main page? Example being
London Marathon. Think it would be handy but can't work out how to do it. Should also be added to
Kentucky Derby.
Lankyant ( talk) 02:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a go to tool to design racing silks? Would like to get to work on adding some to add to the Grand National races if it's not too difficult.
Lankyant ( talk) 00:15, 14April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks I will do, and when I say standardise I mean more just making sure odds and flagicons are listed the same style in every race as well as adding conditions and starting prices that were missing to the infoboxes. So no major things or reworks :)
User: Lankyant 02:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Let me know which silks (which years?) you need and I will happily generate if they don't exist already JockeyColours ( talk) 07:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
And I also agree with the record tables for 1 race horses but I saw it more as a quick reference point for people to look at instead of digging into the meat of an article it gives a quick idea of the result but if you dislike I'm happy to delete.
But yes I definitely think that we should aim for a page for each winner.
And yes, I had way too much free time lately so seemed like this would be a useful way to spend it!
[User:Lankyant] 14:04, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey JockeyColours, sorry I didn't see your reply! That would be great and much appreciated. I will try and get something together obviously the full list for races would be grand especially for 2021 but that's a lot of work but in terms of winners we have nothing it seems pre 2000 so I know that takes some research which I will try and put together. But for now we need Bobbyjo 1999 -red top with gold sleeves. gold Lorraine cross on centre with green cap with gold stripes.
But instead of full race cards I'd like to prioritise the top 4 finishers from 2004 to 2013 and 2015, 2016, 2017 to make a place table with as we only have the winning colours currently.
Thank you!
User:Lankyant 02:33 15 April 2021
I noticed on the Bob Baffert article that there is no mention of any of the numerous doping issues over the past few years. I think they should be mentioned. Best, Thriley ( talk) 16:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I've experimented with adding a couple of new columns to the winners lists, one to show the race status for each year, and the other to link the Racing Post reference specifically to the year. I've used one of this week's races as a trial, the Westow Stakes. If you're interested, could you have a look please and give your thoughts there as to whether it's a good idea, looks useful etc. Thanks, -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Dear WikiProject Horse racing. I was thinking about translating the (newly created) Italian wikipage it:Premio Presidente della Repubblica which is about a prestigious prize of the prestigious scientific institution Lincei National Academy (given every year by the Italian president). I was surprised to see that the English page is about horse racing. I'm not the right person that can evaluate the notability of that (horse racing) page. Can you please verify that the existing page meets the notability criteria? Despite the name, it doesn't seem connected to the Italian institutions. -- SimoneD89 ( talk) 18:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Your edit : Broadway Stakes (NYB) moved to draftspace
All Thoroughbred racing in the United States is governed by state gambling laws. Hence, there is only one legal source for referencing those races, that being the racetrack proprietor who holds the gambling license. In the case of the Broadway Stakes, it is owned by the New York Racing Association (NYRA) and all information contained in the Wikipedia article on the Broadway Stakes is derived from the referenced NYRA. Note that in this case the NYRA is a government entity owned by the State of New York. In articles where there might be information not covered by the track owner, i.e. comments about the events during the race that the jockey moved too early etc., or a comment that the horse had not run for two months due to an injury, or the winner lost for the first time in four starts, and more. Those comments come from the media and are referenced at Wikipedia to reputable sources such as the Daily Racing Form, Thoroughbred Daily News, the New York Times, Blood-horse magazine and the like. Further, Equibase Co., LLC is an official source having been authorized as such by racetrack owners plus by licensed breeders for pedigree records. However, Equibase Co., LLC only document races back to 1976 and in a great many cases the races created at Wikipedia go way past that to times as early as 1860. Note too, there are defunct/discontinued races from long ago, many of which are because the racetrack closed or were forced to close through state anti-gambling legislation such as the Hart-Agnew Law. For these historically important Wikipedia articles, we use very reliable sources as references. I hope this helps but I think it would be a lot easier for you and others who work hard to ensure quality for Wikipedia but who don't have in-depth expertise on this particular subject to leave a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing where someone knowledgeable will certainly answer it. Kindly reverse your edit. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk) 20:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Update: - Article was deleted. This brings up the question why there is a category of Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States which now has one less entry at 30, and whether the events in this category would qualify under WP:NHORSERACING. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:31, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Can I ask for help reviewing any and all pages related to the 2021 Kentucky Derby. Although the second sample for Medina Spirit was also positive, he has NOT yet been disqualified. That decision will be made by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, which will deliberate at its own sweet pace. (For reference, it took four years before Dancer's Image DQ was officially official.) Folks want to jump ahead of the process though and change the winner. I'm updating as I come across stuff. Oh, and the ban of Baffert at Churchill Downs is official, for now, but we don't yet know to what extent it will be followed at other tracks. Bloodhorse has lots of stuff. I'm using the WaPo article for now, and I expect NYT will have some great stuff since they broke the story on Justify's positive. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 00:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. I don’t normally create articles in this area, but in researching a different topic, I came across John Rickman the longtime broadcaster journalist of British horse races and created a quick stub. The article is currently an orphan. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 18:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
An Afd has been entered for the article about Hot Rod Charlie. Hot Rod Charlie has only won a Grade II event. IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 23:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was put up for deletion by WikiProject Horse racing member
User:Brudder Andrusha who stated the following as their reasoning:
While I may strongly disagree with User:Brudder Andrusa that Thoroughbred race articles at Wikipedia should be at a minimum be graded which eliminates all Listed, Restricted, Ungraded, and Black type stakes races, I respect the opinions of the WikiProject Horse racing members who did not object to the deletion of the
Broadway Stakes (NYB) as the members were adhering to the WikiProject guidelines.
Over and above the Non-graded stakes races, there are no Graded stakes races in North America prior to 1973 and prior to 1971 for British & Irish races so this problem will have to be dealt with. Deleting the Listed, Restricted, Ungraded/Black type races represents a massive job. And, these required race deletions will have a profound effect on a multitude of other Wikipedia articles including those for jockeys, trainers, and owners. I do not know how this very difficult deleting situation should be organized in the context of "the event should be at a minimum be graded" policy.
Regarding articles for horses User:Brudder Andrusha has also stated: "IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG.
I, and obviously the industry itself, believe State/Province-bred races are a very important and vital part of Thoroughbred racing as are a number of ungraded/Black type stakes. My view is shared by many other editors at Wikipedia as evidenced by the volume of those types of articles they have created or contributed to which includes Brudder Andrusha' substantial edits and races. (e.g. Charles Town Oaks, Harlan's Holiday Stakes, Parx Dash Stakes and others). Although WikiProject's deletion policy will have enormous consequences for Wikipedia we nevertheless have to accept that the Broadway Stakes (NYB) article had to be deleted as User:Brudder Andrusha's position is that the article's deletion is enunciated in the WikiProject's established guideline and was done through the due process Wikipedia stipulates for article deletions.
There are many more such races in Wikipedia for Europe that don't meet the WikiProject guidelines and we will need a number of volunteers to help prepare them for the deletion process. There are Wikipedia articles List of British flat horse races#Other races and List of Irish flat horse races#Other races as follows, all of which will have be deleted in order to meet the WikiProject's guideline.
Similarly, there are Australian listed races like the G A Towton Cup that will have to be deleted. I could not find a list.
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Ireland:
Other articles requiring deletionAlbeit reluctantly, I will follow the WikiProject guidelines and Wikipedia policy and help as much as possible to expedite the posting of the following additional races as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States The New York-Bred 2021 Stakes Schedule including
New York Stallion Series events
[1] has 40 races with the following values that in fact equal or far exceed the
Category:Grade 3 stakes races in the United States:
Some of those New York-Bred races already in Wikipedia are:
Other states:
All are Restricted races to horses bred either in the State of Florida or the State of California: Canada
Category:Restricted stakes races in Canada
Canadian Triple Crown races:
Ontario Sire Stakes (not listed below) Achievement Stakes Algoma Stakes Bison City Stakes Clarendon Stakes Coronation Futurity Stakes Cup and Saucer Stakes Fanfreluche Stakes Fury Stakes Jammed Lovely Stakes Ontario Damsel Stakes Ontario Lassie Stakes Plate Trial Stakes Princess Elizabeth Stakes (Canada) Queenston Stakes Shady Well Stakes Simcoe Stakes Vandal Stakes Wonder Where Stakes Woodbine Oaks
In addition to the above Canadian Restricted races there are forty Ungraded stakes races in Canada that will also have to be deleted. They are:
Alywow Stakes
Ballade Stakes Belle Mahone Stakes Bold Ruckus Stakes Bull Page Stakes Bunty Lawless Stakes Charlie Barley Stakes Chief Bearhart Stakes Classy 'N Smart Stakes Colin Stakes Deputy Minister Stakes Display Stakes Duchess Stakes Frost King Stakes Glorious Song Stakes Hill 'n' Dale Stakes Kingarvie Stakes La Prevoyante Stakes Lady Angela Stakes La Lorgnette Stakes Manitoba Derby Maple Leaf Stakes My Dear Stakes Nandi Stakes New Providence Stakes Ontario Debutante Stakes Ontario Fashion Stakes Overskate Stakes Shepperton Stakes Silver Deputy Stakes Sir Barton Stakes South Ocean Stakes Star Shoot Stakes Steady Growth Stakes Toronto Cup Stakes Vice Regent Stakes Victoria Park Stakes Victoria Stakes Victoriana Stakes Woodstock Stakes |
We currently have 66 WikiProject Horse racing members so we need to pitch in and get this cleanup done ASAP. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk)
A race or a race meet that may be questionable by the general WP:GNG criteria may be notable or not by assessing the following additional factors:
These criteria do not mandate deletion, but may indicate that a competition is not notable
I hope this clarifies things, and for godsake, let's all settle down here! Montanabw (talk) 15:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Would some members from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage? I'm not sure all of the extra detail about the horse is really necessary because there's already a stand-alone article about the horse at Dark Mirage. I've started a talk page discussion about this at Talk:Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage for reference and would appreciate any input. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. In expanding Deaths in 1995, I discovered an obituary on horse racing journalist Richard Baerlein, who we currently have no article on. I thought someone from this project might be interested in creating one, so I dug up another source as well. Here they are:
If you have access to newspapers.com, there is also an obituary in The Guardian: here. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 22:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi y'all. If anyone knows of any sources for Mexican horse racing, I need them for details on Letruska's first six starts. Thanks! Jlvsclrk ( talk) 19:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
My draft for Barbara Jo Rubin was recently put into mainspace. According to sources, Rubin is the first woman to win a professional horse race. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 18:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if the Subsequent Group 1 wins section of 2013 Epsom Derby should include Percussionist's win in the Grand National Hurdle Stakes. Tigerboy1966 07:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Discussion in progress of peripheral interest to members of this project: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Celebration of Horses: The American Saddlebred. Montanabw (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Calling @ Tigerboy1966:, @ Bcp67:, @ Jlvsclrk:, @ Sunline02:. Please take a look at the article I've created for dual hemisphere GI winner State Of Rest. I usually don't go down this path of creating an article for a horse and I known you folks are more experienced in this area. I have missing links and a background update into the breeding aspect of the horse would be a great addition. Thanks. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 09:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I found these two related unsourced racehorse stubs, both tagged for notability for over a decade: Secret Firm and Secret Hello. Some Googling on my part seems to confirm that they probably don't pass WP:GNG, but I don't know the first thing about horse racing/racehorses and whether any specific criteria may apply. Could someone here determine whether these articles need to be deleted or saved? Thanks! Lennart97 ( talk) 12:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Lankyant ( talk) 14:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Follow up— basically, I think Secret Hello just barely passes the criteria for GNG, as I think he won a grade one futurity as a two-year-old. I think Grozny can also be salvaged, as we have very little on races in Latin America and the one he did win appears to be quite significant. I do think it is important that we factor in that most of the sources on that article are probably in Spanish. I think that Altibr and Secret Firm can both go, as neither of them won a grade one race, nor do I see a significant record at stud. Given that we do have a SNG for race horses, I think we can apply it in these cases to help refine where the line is. Montanabw (talk) 20:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, for picking this up so quickly! Lennart97 ( talk) 10:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Clickity Clack - should it be deleted? The horse won only one non-graded stakes which was a restricted stakes which kind have been deleted at Wikipedia). Stretchrunner II ( talk) 12:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I've been working on Fleetwood Park Racetrack. My main interest is as part of Bronx history; I know almost nothing about horse racing. One thing that puzzles me about the historical sources is the mention of both the New York Driving Club and the Gentlemen's Driving Association. Were these two separate entities who ran the track at different times? Two names for the same entity? Two different entities that co-existed and did different things? Anybody know anything about this history? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
There is a titling RFC at Wikipedia talk:Article titles that will affect many articles at this project. There was discussion of making the RfC handled bit by bit before all projects understood the ramifications with entertainment being singled out next in a deleted draft, and other projects after that. Whether you agree or don't agree please join in the discussion for this massive Wikipedia change. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 10:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed that WP:NOTABILITY has been updated a little bit since the horse racing SNG was created. Basically, the notability standard now ranks GNG & SNG as coequal alternative criteria, one does not supersede the other. So I made a few minor copy edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing/Notability, and if anyone wants to look at them, now you know. ;) Montanabw (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Today I added "Popular pages" wikilink for "WikiProject Horse racing" to the project page. Popular pages is a bot-generated (monthly) list of pageviews, useful for focused cleanup of frequently viewed articles. Regards, JoeNMLC ( talk) 17:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed a dearth of articles and information on horse racing in Latin America (probably largely due to a similar dearth of available sources in English). Thus far, almost everything (racetracks, graded/group stakes races, notable people and horses, etc.) is either non-existent or a stub, with the occasional exception of some horses that came north to the US to race. I'm slowly trying to help fill that gap, but it's a pretty large one. The main priority is the countries of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru, since they are the largest, most important, and most notable horse racing countries in the region; Argentina in particular. Uruguay, Puerto Rico, Panama, and Venezuela are of lesser but still notable importance, and a lot of notable US racehorses did a significant amount in Mexico in the 20th century, even if modern racing in the country is much less notable. There is also some racing/breeding in Ecuador, Columbia, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Bolivia, and Guatemala, but probably not of enough importance to be anything more than noted as existing.
The main international group in the region is OSAF, and they have a
website in English. I have compiled a list of potential sources (mostly in Spanish and Portuguese, although with a few in English). I would greatly appreciate any help or recommendations for articles of priority to create/edit (I keep flitting between giving primary priority to important G1 races, racetracks, prominent people, top modern horses, and horses of significant historical importance).
TabbyLadrona (
talk) 16:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
A new proposal is now pending to add language to NSPORT providing, among other things, that "meeting [NSPORTS or NHORSERACING] would not serve as a valid keep argument in a deletion discussion." If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, please feel free to add your comments at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Subproposal 1 (NSPORT). Cbl62 ( talk) 18:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm thinking of nominating
Garde Champetre for deletion. Cross-country specialist and a Cheltenham Festival winner, but his highest-level win was a Grade 2 novices' chase hurdle. I can't see any great claim to notability here. Any views? --
Bcp67 (
talk) 21:05, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a debate about how to display the age at death of a horse, discussion at Talk:Bobs Worth#Age at death/horse age. Would be good to get the views of project members. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 13:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
After a hiatus, I've finally found time to get back doing British jockey biographies. I've built a script to help generate infoboxes and it occurred to me - I'm not aware of any agreed criteria on what goes in them. Are there any? My default has been:
The races are then duplicated in the major races section of the main article. I'm kind of ambivalent about this - it feels like unnecessary duplication, but then again I'm sure some people prefer them listed here than the infobox. I'm also ambivalent at what goes in them. For the likes of Moore or Dettori, the listing seems to go on forever, even with just G1s, but for some lesser known jockeys it feels like major handicaps might be worth including as career landmarks. The long and the short of it is - what do we want in the infoboxes/major races list? Peaky76 ( talk) 22:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed a brand new editor has been adding unsourced promotional material to China Horse Club. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 18:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed several times that some people on Wikipedia seem to like to use "who" to refer to racehorses. For examples, see the opening sentence of Secretariat (horse), Seattle Slew, War Admiral, Whirlaway and Rombauer (horse). To me it seems a bit strange. I doubt that is generally done for other animals. Is this a widely supported convention? Has this been previously discussed as a matter of Wikipedia MoS convention? — BarrelProof ( talk) 06:32, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
I opened a further discussion of this issue at WT:MOS#Using "who/whose/her/him/hers/his" in the context of named individual animals. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, just over from the cricket project. I was looking to expand this rather obscure Hampshire cricketer, only to find out he was a rather successful jockey, riding in 1,064 races and winning 332 of these. I wonder if anyone here can find some reliable sources for his horse racing career? Cheers, StickyWicket ( talk) 19:38, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Can anyone please add a race summary to 2022 Grand National ASAP so we can get it on the In The News? Lankyant ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently created an article for Sonny Leon, the jockey of Rich Strike, the winner of the 2022 Kentucky Derby. His notability has been questioned. I think he meets notability requirements with the derby win. Thriley ( talk) 03:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not much of a horse racing guy, but I saw Lester Piggott up at WP:ITN/C. Are the jerseys for all major events underneath the infobox really suitable? On mobile it takes up between 5 and 8 full screens before you can through the remainder of the article prose. This seems quite crufty to me. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Only one set of thumbnails should be shown unless user explicitly expands to show more. However the templates used do not seem to collapse correctly on mobile. I will investigate and try to get templates updated. JockeyColours ( talk)
Munnings 2006 ( Speightstown - La Comete, by Holy Bull) never won a G1 but did win 3 G2s including Woody Stephens Stakes, Tom Fool Handicap and the now Listed Gulfstream Park Sprint Championship Stakes. However, what's more impressive about Munnings has evolved as a sire. He now has sired five G1 winners including multiple G1 winner Jack Christopher who this Saturday also won the now G1 Woody Stephens Stakes. He's on my do list but if someone wants to start I'll help out. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 17:45, 12 June 2022 (UTC) @ Brudder Andrusha: if you haven't gotten started on this, just FYI that WP:NHORSERACING clearly allows sires of significance (i.e. Tapit) to be deemed notable even if their own race record was modest. Montanabw (talk) 16:59, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
There appear to be almost 400 horse-related articles that link the word "turf" like this: [[grass|turf]]
. This odd way of linking made sense in the years before 2016, when
Turf was a disambiguation page and
Grass a broad-concept article. But that's not the case anymore: "Grass" is now a redirect to the plant family
Poaceae, which is clearly not the intended meaning here.
What should we do about these? Assuming there are no instances of "turf" simply referring to horse racing in general, we could either change the link to point to something more relevant ( Turf? Sports turf? an as-of-yet-nonexistent redirect to a relevant section of Horse racing?), or unlink it altogether (per MOS:OL).
Any thoughts or ideas? – Uanfala ( talk) 13:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
With all the frenzy about Flightline an unreferenced addition to his statistics to include his Beyer Speed Figure in his statistics. My problem with this inclusion, is that there is already a reference for his performance from Equibase in his statistics - not Daily Racing Form where the Beyers are published. Equibase provides a timeform rating which is included in the general "Results" not in each individual race result. These kind of inclusions open a can of worms. In particular, changing format of the Statistics table (which IMO should be standardized), updating other horse's statistics, etc. Thoughts from others? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Seems like it would be information to mention, on pages like that for St. Simon, that strong l DNA evidence now shows a divergence between the GSB pedigree and some actual genetic lineages.
The correction significantly changes the apparent contemporary influence of founding sire lines.
“According to pedigree information only few of the tested males trace back paternally to Byerley Turk… All 30 patrilineal descendants that coalesce in Herod, born in 1758, whose ancestry in turn traces back to Byerley Turk, carried the Tb-oB1 specific allele 208… We also confirmed Tb-oB1 in eleven horses tracing back to St. Simon, born in 1881. According to stud records, St. Simon was the son of Galopin, born in 1872, who was sired by Vedette, born in 1854. The line should trace back to Eclipse, born in 1764 (Fig. 3) according to stud books. All descendants of St. Simon carry Tb-oB1, undoubtedly the HT of Herod (Fig. 3), and not that of Eclipse (Tb-dW*). Thus, an incorrect paternity assignment must have occurred in this lineage. In a discussion recorded in the early to mid 19th century, one party claimed that instead of Vedette a moderate performer named Delight, born in 1863, a Byerley Turk descendant (Fig. 3b), fathered Galopin; our molecular data support this view.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42640-w#MOESM10 Greenineugene ( talk) 17:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
How do I ask for a restriction on editing a page? specifically Kent Desormeaux. I seem to be in an edit war with an anonymous user who can't understand that even Equibase can make mistakes, and insists on removing very well sourced info. Driving me crazy! See my page for details if you're interested. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 02:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I've just created an article about Cody's Wish. I'm sure there is more that can be elaborated upon in that article, so any help to expand would be appreciated. Thanks! JRHorse ( talk) 18:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Looking at Amounis#Race_record, I see abbreviations like "f" and "l". What do these mean? I'd like to expand them for clarity or link to a definition somewhere. Is "l" not the same as "lengths"? -- Beland ( talk) 21:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:Thoroughbred#Infobox_Image which may be of interest to members of this project. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 18:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Most of the UK horse racing content originates from List_of_British_National_Hunt_races and it's flat (and Irish) equivalents. Recently I saw that all Premier Handicaps except ONE listed on this page had their own pages, so it seemed logical to fill that gap. I therefore created Byrne Group Handicap Chase. This page has now been rejected with reason: "not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG", and the page automatically redirects back to List_of_British_National_Hunt_races. As I have been involved in the creation of many of these race pages I am well aware of the format used and have replicated that. It is therefore certain that there are 100+ pages that have been accepted which differ in no significant way to this one that has been rejected.
Similarly when reading recently about Cheltenham Gold Cup winners of the eighties I became aware that there was no page for the Edward Hanmer Chase (at Haydock) which many used as an early season target on the way to the big race. Convinced of its notability, I therefore researched and created a page: Draft:Edward_Hanmer_Memorial_Chase but this was rejected on grounds of notability and lack of reliable sources. As the sources used were Timeform Annuals and the Racing Post website my personal feeling is that for the topic of British Horse Racing there is nothing more reliable!
I understand that the reviewers have a difficult job and are working hard to maintain the quality and standards of Wikipedia content, but there seems to be a disconnect here between their overall view and that of people working within a specific area who have a deeper knowledge of what is and what isn't both reliable and notable.
I would have no issue with a judgement that the vast majority of Premier Handicaps are not notable and so should not have their own pages. However if a decision has been taken (or simply evolved) to catalog the current state of UK Racing down to Group 3 (Premier Handicap) level then a full picture is surely better than a partial one.
Likewise if we have a format that has been used to successfully document hundreds of races can it not be agreed with reviewers that this is equally appropriate for any new pages that are created. I believe that we have an admirably consistent approach to the layout of these race pages, but over the years some have been flagged with Reviewer warnings (which have never been removed) and now it seems new pages will be rejected completely.
It is certainly counter productive if an Us against Them feeling might exist between contributors and reviewers, so is it possible that guidelines and formats specific to Horse Racing can be fed back to Review teams to ensure that we all have a common goal and pull together not against each other? ( JockeyColours ( talk) 13:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC))
Many pages of animals do not have either wikiprojects attached to them or even existant talk pages, on this linked post i listed in my sandbox (since otherwise it would clogged a lot) about 300 such pages, some of which are pertinent to this wikiproject, notably around 96 horses and 1 pony breed. There is probably also a few others pages (hippodromes, etc) that could be pertinent to this project.
Entry of the talk page : Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Are_individual_animals_page_in_the_WikiProjectMammals_?
Cheers ! Gimly24 ( talk) 21:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
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No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
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Aymatth2 (
talk) 14:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Loose horse is being discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25#Loose horse. The discussion would greatly benefit from input from editors knowledgeable about horse racing and/or horses more generally. Thryduulf ( talk) 08:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The inductees have been announced and a discussion has been started on whether the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame page should be updated now or when formally the induction occurs during the Saratoga meeting in August. @ JRHorse: has updated each individual articles with a reference indicating of the honor bestowed. My feeling is that this is not a WP:CRYSTAL issue. Since events in the future are well documented if there is adequate references and sourcing. Thoughts ? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Is the article about the running of the 2023 Kentucky Derby a platform to propagate deaths of horses and the failings of this industry. There's much more missing from this article which is directly associated with the race and should be added. There is a mention of the scratching of Lord Miles which I feel is acceptable but the rest questionable. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 19:49, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Gentry Brothers Farm was (still is?) a Thoroughbred racing and training stable owned by brothers Robert and Bruce Gentry. Should we keep this article?
Thanks, -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 11:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
I've started an article for Paddington in template format. Seems no one wanted to do this even after 4 Group 1 wins. ;) I let the folks who follow British racing to continue updating. Cheers. 15:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC) Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I've started a talk page discussion to change the name of the article above to Whitney Stakes. I believe there is no reason to have a (NYRA) at the end of that title, as there is only one Whitney Stakes. It's my opinion there is no need for disambiguation, and the current naming is not consistent with the names of other horse racing stakes articles. I started a move discussion because I'm not sure whether or not the change would be uncontroversial. JRHorse ( talk) 12:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
An editor has requested that Silver Train be moved to Silver Train (horse), which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Aoeuidhtns ( talk) 14:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I've submitted Fleetwood Park Racetrack to WP:FAC. I wrote it more from the Bronx history side than from the horse racing side, but it may be of interest to people here. In particular, it could use some additional reviews for FAC. Thanks for taking a look. RoySmith (talk) 17:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
I have just updated the colours for Prix du Cadran and have ended up with two lines across the image of the third place colours. I cannot work out where they come from. Any ideas? Southdevonian ( talk) 11:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Can some admin from our European group looking into the edit war between Billsmith60 and a new contributor LALTBBPITP in the article about Auguste Rodin dealing with the introduction? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
A debatable issue arose after the recent Breeders' Cup where many articles were updated with regard to the infobox of a thoroughbred. The discussion is on the Inspiral (GB) Talk page, the winner of the Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf and deals with what is placed in the section Major wins. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Blood-Horse magazine List of the Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century#Requested move 21 November 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Kiwiz1338 ( talk) 04:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello all. I just created Desert Hero (my first racing horse article) and I was wondering if someone more experienced here on racehorse articles could look over the infobox and see if everything is in order please? I think additional info is available in the Racing Post source. The C of E God Save the King! ( talk) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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Derby 150 article development and backlog drive | |
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Can regulars start going through and adding wikilinks, correcting my mistakes and additional refs in the new 2021 Road to the Kentucky Derby? Its about this time we start getting interested with 6 months to go. Cheers! Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some minor updates on this page and came across from the main Prep races that the Jeff Ruby Stakes (Spiral Stakes) has had the qualification points raised to Championship series - Second Leg on par with main Derbies. I'm looking for any other reference before modifying this in the article, but this doesn't surprise me that Churchill Downs Inc. made a nice deal with Turfway Park due to the change of dates last year with Covid-19 problems. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we really want this category?
Category:Filmed deaths of animals
Stretchrunner (
talk) 22:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 20:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
I stumbled across a conversation between @ Montanabw: and @ Stretchrunner: that I intruded upon believing that the discussion should included to all who participate on this Project. Stretchrunner has the belief that when he creates, updates, or just edit a horse race table, if possible I do my best to find and replace Owner: Mrs. John Doe with showing only HER name. It's very hard to find a female first name but if one gets lucky and does, it can take many hours. I disagree with this approach given that changing the name from what was registered when the horse won the event. If the reference (especially in the period when women were not allowed to be owners) given indicates Mrs. Joe Brown or some pseudonym like when Merman who won the 1900 Ascot Gold Cup the name should stay. If the horse is registered to be owned for example by Mrs. John Magnier then that is what should be in the table. The link can go to who the person is but the registered name is given per the reference ( WP:V). Opening this up for discussion. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:21, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I have updated this article but I do not have admin privileges to move Royal Heroine Mile Stakes to Royal Heroine Stakes due to an existing REDIRECT. The event has been run as the Royal Heroine Stakes since 2014. An uncontested technical move has been requested. Can someone with admin privileges perform this move? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia( talk) 00:58, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 09:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey all, I'm new to the site but have created a few pages for Grand National Winners who haven't got one yet and am hoping to make one for them all. I've also started going through the winners and races and standardising them (especially infoboxes, flag icons, layout) as well as adding a Grand National Record table and Pedigree for each winning horse.
The pages I've made:
Looking for feedback, thanks!
Lankyant (
talk) 18:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Is it at all possible to add a 'latest race' link at the bottom of the infobox on the
Grand National main page? Example being
London Marathon. Think it would be handy but can't work out how to do it. Should also be added to
Kentucky Derby.
Lankyant ( talk) 02:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a go to tool to design racing silks? Would like to get to work on adding some to add to the Grand National races if it's not too difficult.
Lankyant ( talk) 00:15, 14April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks I will do, and when I say standardise I mean more just making sure odds and flagicons are listed the same style in every race as well as adding conditions and starting prices that were missing to the infoboxes. So no major things or reworks :)
User: Lankyant 02:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Let me know which silks (which years?) you need and I will happily generate if they don't exist already JockeyColours ( talk) 07:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
And I also agree with the record tables for 1 race horses but I saw it more as a quick reference point for people to look at instead of digging into the meat of an article it gives a quick idea of the result but if you dislike I'm happy to delete.
But yes I definitely think that we should aim for a page for each winner.
And yes, I had way too much free time lately so seemed like this would be a useful way to spend it!
[User:Lankyant] 14:04, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey JockeyColours, sorry I didn't see your reply! That would be great and much appreciated. I will try and get something together obviously the full list for races would be grand especially for 2021 but that's a lot of work but in terms of winners we have nothing it seems pre 2000 so I know that takes some research which I will try and put together. But for now we need Bobbyjo 1999 -red top with gold sleeves. gold Lorraine cross on centre with green cap with gold stripes.
But instead of full race cards I'd like to prioritise the top 4 finishers from 2004 to 2013 and 2015, 2016, 2017 to make a place table with as we only have the winning colours currently.
Thank you!
User:Lankyant 02:33 15 April 2021
I noticed on the Bob Baffert article that there is no mention of any of the numerous doping issues over the past few years. I think they should be mentioned. Best, Thriley ( talk) 16:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I've experimented with adding a couple of new columns to the winners lists, one to show the race status for each year, and the other to link the Racing Post reference specifically to the year. I've used one of this week's races as a trial, the Westow Stakes. If you're interested, could you have a look please and give your thoughts there as to whether it's a good idea, looks useful etc. Thanks, -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Dear WikiProject Horse racing. I was thinking about translating the (newly created) Italian wikipage it:Premio Presidente della Repubblica which is about a prestigious prize of the prestigious scientific institution Lincei National Academy (given every year by the Italian president). I was surprised to see that the English page is about horse racing. I'm not the right person that can evaluate the notability of that (horse racing) page. Can you please verify that the existing page meets the notability criteria? Despite the name, it doesn't seem connected to the Italian institutions. -- SimoneD89 ( talk) 18:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Your edit : Broadway Stakes (NYB) moved to draftspace
All Thoroughbred racing in the United States is governed by state gambling laws. Hence, there is only one legal source for referencing those races, that being the racetrack proprietor who holds the gambling license. In the case of the Broadway Stakes, it is owned by the New York Racing Association (NYRA) and all information contained in the Wikipedia article on the Broadway Stakes is derived from the referenced NYRA. Note that in this case the NYRA is a government entity owned by the State of New York. In articles where there might be information not covered by the track owner, i.e. comments about the events during the race that the jockey moved too early etc., or a comment that the horse had not run for two months due to an injury, or the winner lost for the first time in four starts, and more. Those comments come from the media and are referenced at Wikipedia to reputable sources such as the Daily Racing Form, Thoroughbred Daily News, the New York Times, Blood-horse magazine and the like. Further, Equibase Co., LLC is an official source having been authorized as such by racetrack owners plus by licensed breeders for pedigree records. However, Equibase Co., LLC only document races back to 1976 and in a great many cases the races created at Wikipedia go way past that to times as early as 1860. Note too, there are defunct/discontinued races from long ago, many of which are because the racetrack closed or were forced to close through state anti-gambling legislation such as the Hart-Agnew Law. For these historically important Wikipedia articles, we use very reliable sources as references. I hope this helps but I think it would be a lot easier for you and others who work hard to ensure quality for Wikipedia but who don't have in-depth expertise on this particular subject to leave a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing where someone knowledgeable will certainly answer it. Kindly reverse your edit. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk) 20:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Update: - Article was deleted. This brings up the question why there is a category of Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States which now has one less entry at 30, and whether the events in this category would qualify under WP:NHORSERACING. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:31, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Can I ask for help reviewing any and all pages related to the 2021 Kentucky Derby. Although the second sample for Medina Spirit was also positive, he has NOT yet been disqualified. That decision will be made by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, which will deliberate at its own sweet pace. (For reference, it took four years before Dancer's Image DQ was officially official.) Folks want to jump ahead of the process though and change the winner. I'm updating as I come across stuff. Oh, and the ban of Baffert at Churchill Downs is official, for now, but we don't yet know to what extent it will be followed at other tracks. Bloodhorse has lots of stuff. I'm using the WaPo article for now, and I expect NYT will have some great stuff since they broke the story on Justify's positive. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 00:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. I don’t normally create articles in this area, but in researching a different topic, I came across John Rickman the longtime broadcaster journalist of British horse races and created a quick stub. The article is currently an orphan. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 18:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
An Afd has been entered for the article about Hot Rod Charlie. Hot Rod Charlie has only won a Grade II event. IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 23:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was put up for deletion by WikiProject Horse racing member
User:Brudder Andrusha who stated the following as their reasoning:
While I may strongly disagree with User:Brudder Andrusa that Thoroughbred race articles at Wikipedia should be at a minimum be graded which eliminates all Listed, Restricted, Ungraded, and Black type stakes races, I respect the opinions of the WikiProject Horse racing members who did not object to the deletion of the
Broadway Stakes (NYB) as the members were adhering to the WikiProject guidelines.
Over and above the Non-graded stakes races, there are no Graded stakes races in North America prior to 1973 and prior to 1971 for British & Irish races so this problem will have to be dealt with. Deleting the Listed, Restricted, Ungraded/Black type races represents a massive job. And, these required race deletions will have a profound effect on a multitude of other Wikipedia articles including those for jockeys, trainers, and owners. I do not know how this very difficult deleting situation should be organized in the context of "the event should be at a minimum be graded" policy.
Regarding articles for horses User:Brudder Andrusha has also stated: "IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG.
I, and obviously the industry itself, believe State/Province-bred races are a very important and vital part of Thoroughbred racing as are a number of ungraded/Black type stakes. My view is shared by many other editors at Wikipedia as evidenced by the volume of those types of articles they have created or contributed to which includes Brudder Andrusha' substantial edits and races. (e.g. Charles Town Oaks, Harlan's Holiday Stakes, Parx Dash Stakes and others). Although WikiProject's deletion policy will have enormous consequences for Wikipedia we nevertheless have to accept that the Broadway Stakes (NYB) article had to be deleted as User:Brudder Andrusha's position is that the article's deletion is enunciated in the WikiProject's established guideline and was done through the due process Wikipedia stipulates for article deletions.
There are many more such races in Wikipedia for Europe that don't meet the WikiProject guidelines and we will need a number of volunteers to help prepare them for the deletion process. There are Wikipedia articles List of British flat horse races#Other races and List of Irish flat horse races#Other races as follows, all of which will have be deleted in order to meet the WikiProject's guideline.
Similarly, there are Australian listed races like the G A Towton Cup that will have to be deleted. I could not find a list.
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Ireland:
Other articles requiring deletionAlbeit reluctantly, I will follow the WikiProject guidelines and Wikipedia policy and help as much as possible to expedite the posting of the following additional races as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States The New York-Bred 2021 Stakes Schedule including
New York Stallion Series events
[1] has 40 races with the following values that in fact equal or far exceed the
Category:Grade 3 stakes races in the United States:
Some of those New York-Bred races already in Wikipedia are:
Other states:
All are Restricted races to horses bred either in the State of Florida or the State of California: Canada
Category:Restricted stakes races in Canada
Canadian Triple Crown races:
Ontario Sire Stakes (not listed below) Achievement Stakes Algoma Stakes Bison City Stakes Clarendon Stakes Coronation Futurity Stakes Cup and Saucer Stakes Fanfreluche Stakes Fury Stakes Jammed Lovely Stakes Ontario Damsel Stakes Ontario Lassie Stakes Plate Trial Stakes Princess Elizabeth Stakes (Canada) Queenston Stakes Shady Well Stakes Simcoe Stakes Vandal Stakes Wonder Where Stakes Woodbine Oaks
In addition to the above Canadian Restricted races there are forty Ungraded stakes races in Canada that will also have to be deleted. They are:
Alywow Stakes
Ballade Stakes Belle Mahone Stakes Bold Ruckus Stakes Bull Page Stakes Bunty Lawless Stakes Charlie Barley Stakes Chief Bearhart Stakes Classy 'N Smart Stakes Colin Stakes Deputy Minister Stakes Display Stakes Duchess Stakes Frost King Stakes Glorious Song Stakes Hill 'n' Dale Stakes Kingarvie Stakes La Prevoyante Stakes Lady Angela Stakes La Lorgnette Stakes Manitoba Derby Maple Leaf Stakes My Dear Stakes Nandi Stakes New Providence Stakes Ontario Debutante Stakes Ontario Fashion Stakes Overskate Stakes Shepperton Stakes Silver Deputy Stakes Sir Barton Stakes South Ocean Stakes Star Shoot Stakes Steady Growth Stakes Toronto Cup Stakes Vice Regent Stakes Victoria Park Stakes Victoria Stakes Victoriana Stakes Woodstock Stakes |
We currently have 66 WikiProject Horse racing members so we need to pitch in and get this cleanup done ASAP. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk)
A race or a race meet that may be questionable by the general WP:GNG criteria may be notable or not by assessing the following additional factors:
These criteria do not mandate deletion, but may indicate that a competition is not notable
I hope this clarifies things, and for godsake, let's all settle down here! Montanabw (talk) 15:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Would some members from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage? I'm not sure all of the extra detail about the horse is really necessary because there's already a stand-alone article about the horse at Dark Mirage. I've started a talk page discussion about this at Talk:Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage for reference and would appreciate any input. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. In expanding Deaths in 1995, I discovered an obituary on horse racing journalist Richard Baerlein, who we currently have no article on. I thought someone from this project might be interested in creating one, so I dug up another source as well. Here they are:
If you have access to newspapers.com, there is also an obituary in The Guardian: here. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 22:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi y'all. If anyone knows of any sources for Mexican horse racing, I need them for details on Letruska's first six starts. Thanks! Jlvsclrk ( talk) 19:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
My draft for Barbara Jo Rubin was recently put into mainspace. According to sources, Rubin is the first woman to win a professional horse race. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 18:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if the Subsequent Group 1 wins section of 2013 Epsom Derby should include Percussionist's win in the Grand National Hurdle Stakes. Tigerboy1966 07:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Discussion in progress of peripheral interest to members of this project: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Celebration of Horses: The American Saddlebred. Montanabw (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Calling @ Tigerboy1966:, @ Bcp67:, @ Jlvsclrk:, @ Sunline02:. Please take a look at the article I've created for dual hemisphere GI winner State Of Rest. I usually don't go down this path of creating an article for a horse and I known you folks are more experienced in this area. I have missing links and a background update into the breeding aspect of the horse would be a great addition. Thanks. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 09:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I found these two related unsourced racehorse stubs, both tagged for notability for over a decade: Secret Firm and Secret Hello. Some Googling on my part seems to confirm that they probably don't pass WP:GNG, but I don't know the first thing about horse racing/racehorses and whether any specific criteria may apply. Could someone here determine whether these articles need to be deleted or saved? Thanks! Lennart97 ( talk) 12:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Lankyant ( talk) 14:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Follow up— basically, I think Secret Hello just barely passes the criteria for GNG, as I think he won a grade one futurity as a two-year-old. I think Grozny can also be salvaged, as we have very little on races in Latin America and the one he did win appears to be quite significant. I do think it is important that we factor in that most of the sources on that article are probably in Spanish. I think that Altibr and Secret Firm can both go, as neither of them won a grade one race, nor do I see a significant record at stud. Given that we do have a SNG for race horses, I think we can apply it in these cases to help refine where the line is. Montanabw (talk) 20:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, for picking this up so quickly! Lennart97 ( talk) 10:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Clickity Clack - should it be deleted? The horse won only one non-graded stakes which was a restricted stakes which kind have been deleted at Wikipedia). Stretchrunner II ( talk) 12:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I've been working on Fleetwood Park Racetrack. My main interest is as part of Bronx history; I know almost nothing about horse racing. One thing that puzzles me about the historical sources is the mention of both the New York Driving Club and the Gentlemen's Driving Association. Were these two separate entities who ran the track at different times? Two names for the same entity? Two different entities that co-existed and did different things? Anybody know anything about this history? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
There is a titling RFC at Wikipedia talk:Article titles that will affect many articles at this project. There was discussion of making the RfC handled bit by bit before all projects understood the ramifications with entertainment being singled out next in a deleted draft, and other projects after that. Whether you agree or don't agree please join in the discussion for this massive Wikipedia change. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 10:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed that WP:NOTABILITY has been updated a little bit since the horse racing SNG was created. Basically, the notability standard now ranks GNG & SNG as coequal alternative criteria, one does not supersede the other. So I made a few minor copy edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing/Notability, and if anyone wants to look at them, now you know. ;) Montanabw (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Today I added "Popular pages" wikilink for "WikiProject Horse racing" to the project page. Popular pages is a bot-generated (monthly) list of pageviews, useful for focused cleanup of frequently viewed articles. Regards, JoeNMLC ( talk) 17:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed a dearth of articles and information on horse racing in Latin America (probably largely due to a similar dearth of available sources in English). Thus far, almost everything (racetracks, graded/group stakes races, notable people and horses, etc.) is either non-existent or a stub, with the occasional exception of some horses that came north to the US to race. I'm slowly trying to help fill that gap, but it's a pretty large one. The main priority is the countries of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru, since they are the largest, most important, and most notable horse racing countries in the region; Argentina in particular. Uruguay, Puerto Rico, Panama, and Venezuela are of lesser but still notable importance, and a lot of notable US racehorses did a significant amount in Mexico in the 20th century, even if modern racing in the country is much less notable. There is also some racing/breeding in Ecuador, Columbia, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Bolivia, and Guatemala, but probably not of enough importance to be anything more than noted as existing.
The main international group in the region is OSAF, and they have a
website in English. I have compiled a list of potential sources (mostly in Spanish and Portuguese, although with a few in English). I would greatly appreciate any help or recommendations for articles of priority to create/edit (I keep flitting between giving primary priority to important G1 races, racetracks, prominent people, top modern horses, and horses of significant historical importance).
TabbyLadrona (
talk) 16:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
A new proposal is now pending to add language to NSPORT providing, among other things, that "meeting [NSPORTS or NHORSERACING] would not serve as a valid keep argument in a deletion discussion." If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, please feel free to add your comments at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Subproposal 1 (NSPORT). Cbl62 ( talk) 18:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm thinking of nominating
Garde Champetre for deletion. Cross-country specialist and a Cheltenham Festival winner, but his highest-level win was a Grade 2 novices' chase hurdle. I can't see any great claim to notability here. Any views? --
Bcp67 (
talk) 21:05, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a debate about how to display the age at death of a horse, discussion at Talk:Bobs Worth#Age at death/horse age. Would be good to get the views of project members. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 13:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
After a hiatus, I've finally found time to get back doing British jockey biographies. I've built a script to help generate infoboxes and it occurred to me - I'm not aware of any agreed criteria on what goes in them. Are there any? My default has been:
The races are then duplicated in the major races section of the main article. I'm kind of ambivalent about this - it feels like unnecessary duplication, but then again I'm sure some people prefer them listed here than the infobox. I'm also ambivalent at what goes in them. For the likes of Moore or Dettori, the listing seems to go on forever, even with just G1s, but for some lesser known jockeys it feels like major handicaps might be worth including as career landmarks. The long and the short of it is - what do we want in the infoboxes/major races list? Peaky76 ( talk) 22:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed a brand new editor has been adding unsourced promotional material to China Horse Club. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 18:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed several times that some people on Wikipedia seem to like to use "who" to refer to racehorses. For examples, see the opening sentence of Secretariat (horse), Seattle Slew, War Admiral, Whirlaway and Rombauer (horse). To me it seems a bit strange. I doubt that is generally done for other animals. Is this a widely supported convention? Has this been previously discussed as a matter of Wikipedia MoS convention? — BarrelProof ( talk) 06:32, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
I opened a further discussion of this issue at WT:MOS#Using "who/whose/her/him/hers/his" in the context of named individual animals. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, just over from the cricket project. I was looking to expand this rather obscure Hampshire cricketer, only to find out he was a rather successful jockey, riding in 1,064 races and winning 332 of these. I wonder if anyone here can find some reliable sources for his horse racing career? Cheers, StickyWicket ( talk) 19:38, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Can anyone please add a race summary to 2022 Grand National ASAP so we can get it on the In The News? Lankyant ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently created an article for Sonny Leon, the jockey of Rich Strike, the winner of the 2022 Kentucky Derby. His notability has been questioned. I think he meets notability requirements with the derby win. Thriley ( talk) 03:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not much of a horse racing guy, but I saw Lester Piggott up at WP:ITN/C. Are the jerseys for all major events underneath the infobox really suitable? On mobile it takes up between 5 and 8 full screens before you can through the remainder of the article prose. This seems quite crufty to me. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Only one set of thumbnails should be shown unless user explicitly expands to show more. However the templates used do not seem to collapse correctly on mobile. I will investigate and try to get templates updated. JockeyColours ( talk)
Munnings 2006 ( Speightstown - La Comete, by Holy Bull) never won a G1 but did win 3 G2s including Woody Stephens Stakes, Tom Fool Handicap and the now Listed Gulfstream Park Sprint Championship Stakes. However, what's more impressive about Munnings has evolved as a sire. He now has sired five G1 winners including multiple G1 winner Jack Christopher who this Saturday also won the now G1 Woody Stephens Stakes. He's on my do list but if someone wants to start I'll help out. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 17:45, 12 June 2022 (UTC) @ Brudder Andrusha: if you haven't gotten started on this, just FYI that WP:NHORSERACING clearly allows sires of significance (i.e. Tapit) to be deemed notable even if their own race record was modest. Montanabw (talk) 16:59, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
There appear to be almost 400 horse-related articles that link the word "turf" like this: [[grass|turf]]
. This odd way of linking made sense in the years before 2016, when
Turf was a disambiguation page and
Grass a broad-concept article. But that's not the case anymore: "Grass" is now a redirect to the plant family
Poaceae, which is clearly not the intended meaning here.
What should we do about these? Assuming there are no instances of "turf" simply referring to horse racing in general, we could either change the link to point to something more relevant ( Turf? Sports turf? an as-of-yet-nonexistent redirect to a relevant section of Horse racing?), or unlink it altogether (per MOS:OL).
Any thoughts or ideas? – Uanfala ( talk) 13:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
With all the frenzy about Flightline an unreferenced addition to his statistics to include his Beyer Speed Figure in his statistics. My problem with this inclusion, is that there is already a reference for his performance from Equibase in his statistics - not Daily Racing Form where the Beyers are published. Equibase provides a timeform rating which is included in the general "Results" not in each individual race result. These kind of inclusions open a can of worms. In particular, changing format of the Statistics table (which IMO should be standardized), updating other horse's statistics, etc. Thoughts from others? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Seems like it would be information to mention, on pages like that for St. Simon, that strong l DNA evidence now shows a divergence between the GSB pedigree and some actual genetic lineages.
The correction significantly changes the apparent contemporary influence of founding sire lines.
“According to pedigree information only few of the tested males trace back paternally to Byerley Turk… All 30 patrilineal descendants that coalesce in Herod, born in 1758, whose ancestry in turn traces back to Byerley Turk, carried the Tb-oB1 specific allele 208… We also confirmed Tb-oB1 in eleven horses tracing back to St. Simon, born in 1881. According to stud records, St. Simon was the son of Galopin, born in 1872, who was sired by Vedette, born in 1854. The line should trace back to Eclipse, born in 1764 (Fig. 3) according to stud books. All descendants of St. Simon carry Tb-oB1, undoubtedly the HT of Herod (Fig. 3), and not that of Eclipse (Tb-dW*). Thus, an incorrect paternity assignment must have occurred in this lineage. In a discussion recorded in the early to mid 19th century, one party claimed that instead of Vedette a moderate performer named Delight, born in 1863, a Byerley Turk descendant (Fig. 3b), fathered Galopin; our molecular data support this view.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42640-w#MOESM10 Greenineugene ( talk) 17:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
How do I ask for a restriction on editing a page? specifically Kent Desormeaux. I seem to be in an edit war with an anonymous user who can't understand that even Equibase can make mistakes, and insists on removing very well sourced info. Driving me crazy! See my page for details if you're interested. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 02:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I've just created an article about Cody's Wish. I'm sure there is more that can be elaborated upon in that article, so any help to expand would be appreciated. Thanks! JRHorse ( talk) 18:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Looking at Amounis#Race_record, I see abbreviations like "f" and "l". What do these mean? I'd like to expand them for clarity or link to a definition somewhere. Is "l" not the same as "lengths"? -- Beland ( talk) 21:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:Thoroughbred#Infobox_Image which may be of interest to members of this project. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 18:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Most of the UK horse racing content originates from List_of_British_National_Hunt_races and it's flat (and Irish) equivalents. Recently I saw that all Premier Handicaps except ONE listed on this page had their own pages, so it seemed logical to fill that gap. I therefore created Byrne Group Handicap Chase. This page has now been rejected with reason: "not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG", and the page automatically redirects back to List_of_British_National_Hunt_races. As I have been involved in the creation of many of these race pages I am well aware of the format used and have replicated that. It is therefore certain that there are 100+ pages that have been accepted which differ in no significant way to this one that has been rejected.
Similarly when reading recently about Cheltenham Gold Cup winners of the eighties I became aware that there was no page for the Edward Hanmer Chase (at Haydock) which many used as an early season target on the way to the big race. Convinced of its notability, I therefore researched and created a page: Draft:Edward_Hanmer_Memorial_Chase but this was rejected on grounds of notability and lack of reliable sources. As the sources used were Timeform Annuals and the Racing Post website my personal feeling is that for the topic of British Horse Racing there is nothing more reliable!
I understand that the reviewers have a difficult job and are working hard to maintain the quality and standards of Wikipedia content, but there seems to be a disconnect here between their overall view and that of people working within a specific area who have a deeper knowledge of what is and what isn't both reliable and notable.
I would have no issue with a judgement that the vast majority of Premier Handicaps are not notable and so should not have their own pages. However if a decision has been taken (or simply evolved) to catalog the current state of UK Racing down to Group 3 (Premier Handicap) level then a full picture is surely better than a partial one.
Likewise if we have a format that has been used to successfully document hundreds of races can it not be agreed with reviewers that this is equally appropriate for any new pages that are created. I believe that we have an admirably consistent approach to the layout of these race pages, but over the years some have been flagged with Reviewer warnings (which have never been removed) and now it seems new pages will be rejected completely.
It is certainly counter productive if an Us against Them feeling might exist between contributors and reviewers, so is it possible that guidelines and formats specific to Horse Racing can be fed back to Review teams to ensure that we all have a common goal and pull together not against each other? ( JockeyColours ( talk) 13:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC))
Many pages of animals do not have either wikiprojects attached to them or even existant talk pages, on this linked post i listed in my sandbox (since otherwise it would clogged a lot) about 300 such pages, some of which are pertinent to this wikiproject, notably around 96 horses and 1 pony breed. There is probably also a few others pages (hippodromes, etc) that could be pertinent to this project.
Entry of the talk page : Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Are_individual_animals_page_in_the_WikiProjectMammals_?
Cheers ! Gimly24 ( talk) 21:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent
Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class=
parameter to {{
WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{
WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom
parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.
Aymatth2 (
talk) 14:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Loose horse is being discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25#Loose horse. The discussion would greatly benefit from input from editors knowledgeable about horse racing and/or horses more generally. Thryduulf ( talk) 08:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The inductees have been announced and a discussion has been started on whether the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame page should be updated now or when formally the induction occurs during the Saratoga meeting in August. @ JRHorse: has updated each individual articles with a reference indicating of the honor bestowed. My feeling is that this is not a WP:CRYSTAL issue. Since events in the future are well documented if there is adequate references and sourcing. Thoughts ? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Is the article about the running of the 2023 Kentucky Derby a platform to propagate deaths of horses and the failings of this industry. There's much more missing from this article which is directly associated with the race and should be added. There is a mention of the scratching of Lord Miles which I feel is acceptable but the rest questionable. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 19:49, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Gentry Brothers Farm was (still is?) a Thoroughbred racing and training stable owned by brothers Robert and Bruce Gentry. Should we keep this article?
Thanks, -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 11:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
I've started an article for Paddington in template format. Seems no one wanted to do this even after 4 Group 1 wins. ;) I let the folks who follow British racing to continue updating. Cheers. 15:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC) Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I've started a talk page discussion to change the name of the article above to Whitney Stakes. I believe there is no reason to have a (NYRA) at the end of that title, as there is only one Whitney Stakes. It's my opinion there is no need for disambiguation, and the current naming is not consistent with the names of other horse racing stakes articles. I started a move discussion because I'm not sure whether or not the change would be uncontroversial. JRHorse ( talk) 12:16, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
An editor has requested that Silver Train be moved to Silver Train (horse), which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Aoeuidhtns ( talk) 14:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
I've submitted Fleetwood Park Racetrack to WP:FAC. I wrote it more from the Bronx history side than from the horse racing side, but it may be of interest to people here. In particular, it could use some additional reviews for FAC. Thanks for taking a look. RoySmith (talk) 17:05, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
I have just updated the colours for Prix du Cadran and have ended up with two lines across the image of the third place colours. I cannot work out where they come from. Any ideas? Southdevonian ( talk) 11:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Can some admin from our European group looking into the edit war between Billsmith60 and a new contributor LALTBBPITP in the article about Auguste Rodin dealing with the introduction? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
A debatable issue arose after the recent Breeders' Cup where many articles were updated with regard to the infobox of a thoroughbred. The discussion is on the Inspiral (GB) Talk page, the winner of the Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf and deals with what is placed in the section Major wins. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Blood-Horse magazine List of the Top 100 U.S. Racehorses of the 20th Century#Requested move 21 November 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Kiwiz1338 ( talk) 04:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello all. I just created Desert Hero (my first racing horse article) and I was wondering if someone more experienced here on racehorse articles could look over the infobox and see if everything is in order please? I think additional info is available in the Racing Post source. The C of E God Save the King! ( talk) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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Stefen Towers among the rest! Gab • Gruntwerk 05:31, 15 April 2024 (UTC)