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I'm not happy with the first sentence, but want to make clear that a bishop is a person, not an order. Also, changed wording on diocese because I happen to live in a geographically very small diocese with a large population. -- Vicki Rosenzweig (writing, again, about other people's religions, hoping to keep to NPOV)
Removed the HRE thing because it bishops were often secular lords all over Europe, not just in and during the HRE. Needs to be written in a way that works. JHK
Just added some more info on Orthodox bishops but left it stated as applying to all, simply because I think most or all of the info also applies to other bishops. If parts of it do not, I'll let someone more informed make that plainer. Wesley
Ccontrary to 11/21/02 posting, LDS bishops are direct heirs of apostolic succession in LDS/Mormon theology. -Randy 11/21/02
There should be more info on bishops in the early church, and possibly the role played by bishops in synods and councils. I'll try and come back to this when I can, if no one else does first. Wesley 13:29 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I'd like to say I found the beginning of this article to be a beautiful example of NPOV. I'm a member of a Church of Christ that believes in doing things exactly the way as described in the New Testament. I approached this article with fear, figuring I would see only modern definitions of the bishop. I was really impressed with the section about bishops in the New Testament. It very accurately described what we do, and I feel it did a great job being NPOV about it; there didn't seem to be any value judgments at all toward the different ways that churches define bishop. I especially appreciated the delicate way the article stated that it is possible to read the New Testament as applying bishop, pastor, and elder to the same office because we do indeed take it that way.
I was redirected here from the right reverend, but the article makes no mention of that phrase whatsoever. what's the deal? Stubblyhead 19:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Since when was/is a person a bishop (esp. in late-medieval (14th and 15th cent.) England)? Since his election/nomination? Since his consecration? Or since the transfer of the temporalities? Or more than one of these? So when did a bishopric's Sede vacante end after the death/deposition/resignment/.. of a bishop? -- A_W_K ( talk) 10:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
May I offer a guess that on election/nomination a new bishop is/was just a bishop-elect, and only becomes a bishop (if those involved take their religion seriously) at the point of consecration? ShropshirePilgrim ( talk) 10:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
I'm fairly certain that all archbishops that head ecclesiastical provinces in those churches also hold the title metropolitan. All Roman Catholic bishops do, and the term metropolitan comes from the Eastern churches, which draw a distinction between an archbishop and a metropolitan archbishop. The only group I am uncertain of is Anglican churches, although the Archbishop of Canterbury is the metropolitan bishop of his ecclesiastical province. Are there Anglican bishops that function like metropolitans but do not take the title metropolitan? Pmadrid 22:58, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Note that although the Methodist Church in Britain may have had bishops in the 19th century, it no longer does. The nearest equivalent position is that of District Chairman/Chairwoman -- Ian Rutt
Not sure what denomination this is, but the section is very confusing; it is pretty unclear what a bishop is or does in the NAC. If someone knows more about the NAC, perhaps some clarification would be possible. KHM03 17:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Some material from Ignatius of Antioch should probably be in here since he had a lot to say about the Bishop. There should at least be a reference.
Is this a misspelling for deacon? Rich Farmbrough 09:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is a problem with the usage of these terms in this article. Technically speaking the Roman Catholic Church and the so-called Latin Catholic Church are the same. Rome is a Latin city. The Eastern Catholic Churches (in communion with Rome) do not refer to themselves as Roman Catholic. Rome is specifically western (Latin). It does not mean in communion with Rome. Please see the website http://www.east2west.org for an explanation of Eastern Catholic churches, and their relationship to their sister church, the Roman Catholic Church, all of which, together, form "the Catholic Church", under the authority of the successor of St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome. User:66.42.173.111 01:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a large amount of reference to Suffragan Bishops, but there is no article, I feel there should be perhaps a small seperate article, explaining exactly what one is - and perhaps a small list of notable ones. Ideas?
Anthropax 15:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I think we should add a section on how the bishops came about. There is evidence that since, in the bible, there is little instruction on how to govern the church, that Christians took their "catse system" from the Roman government.
I would suggest that Valid Bishops would be better merged into either Historic episcopate or Apostolic Succession (and then deleted; it is an orphan—see what links there) . Of course, interesting material could also be copied to Bishop. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 19:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Joseph, from a Roman Catholic and some Anglo-Catholic perspectives, an "invalid" bishop could also be, say, a Methodist bishop.
Personally, I think that the article should be merged with historic episcopate. Carolynparrishfan 15:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone who's experienced with dealing with images in articles needs to figure out a way to fix the position of the mitre picture at the very beginning of the article.
It's stuffing up the position of the TOC.
I tried to center or right it instead, but that causes a big gap at the top of the article till when the Christianity template ends. -- `/aksha 08:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I infer from other articles in Wikipedia that it was once (early middle ages) considered a serious crime for a bishop to leave his diocese to take up the episcopacy of another. I believe that a recently deceased pope was once condemned for doing this and for approving the practice in others. Obviously, this view is no longer followed in the Catholic church; bishops who do well in a small diocese are routinely "promoted" to a larger one. What changed? How and when did the change take place? Rwflammang 15:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe you may be talking about "pluralism," not in the sense of many ideas, but in the canonical sense of holding more than one job at a time. It was common in the Middle Ages for a bishop to hold more than one diocese at a time, and thus collect numerous salaries/have possession of numerous endowment funds/own numerous estates. This was made a crime by the Catholic Church a number of times, but was definitively cracked down upon by the Council of Trent. HarvardOxon 01:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, with the rise of a centralized administration in Rome, and more organized canonical bureaucracy, the Nicaea issue gave way to excardination as a matter of course, and translation of bishops at the direction of the bishop of Rome. I'm confused by his post, as translation of prelates and excardination of other clergy has been happily practicing for centuries, Nicea isn't quite "early Middle Ages," and I don't know of a "recently deceased pope" who was accused either of pluralism or violating Nicaea. HarvardOxon
In the case of the Bishop of Rome, there was nobody to dispense him. The only body with possible authority over a pope was a General Council, and these were called on rare occasions to resolve stalemates. For much of the Middle ages, the Pope was therefore selected from someone other than a bishop elsewhere--as can be seen in the articles here on the various popes. Some were abbots. Most, in the early middle ages, were members of the Roman clergy, and there were a number of offices among them from whom bishops were often chosen. Again see the bios, which are ultimately based on the Liber Pontificalis. Again, it would be interesting to see how that changed. DGG 08:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The most conspicuous omission from this article is a mention of European Protestant churches alongside the American Lutheran church. Can someone fill in about, for example, the Church of Sweden, which I think is a Lutheran church with bishops? 193.63.239.165 10:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
What's the proper way of saying mr John Doe is a Bishop? I'm talking something like a Dr. Doe, what's the equivalent?
The section "Bishops in the Apostolic Fathers" begins with "At the turn of the first century AD, ..." Does this mean around 100 AD? I would think that would be the turn of the second century, with the "turn of the first century" as around the year 1 AD (an impossibility). See 1st century. I'm confused. Steve Baskauf 01:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I presume today's decision on women as bishops (and the Vatican reaction) will be included shortly (and "someone" will do a comic sketch on the Archbishop of Canterbury and Archbishop of York marrying each other.) Jackiespeel ( talk) 14:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
lol
71.171.115.53 ( talk) 22:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC) ajb
Just thought I'd point out that there's no information on mode of formal address. Someone might want to include that. -- Pstanton ( talk) 03:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
A google for Bishop's verge should show importance of mentioning "verge" and "verger" and the Bishop's staff at his seat. see crosier at our http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosier G. Robert Shiplett 13:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
The claim that episkopos and presbuteros were synonyms in the Bible is very far from undisputed -- and along demonational lines. Goldfritha ( talk) 02:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
AFAIK popes (in Rome and Alexandria) are comparable to patriarchs, archbishops and catholicoi, so they should for completeness be mentioned in section Catholic Church, Orthodox churches and Anglican churches. Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 19:31, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
It would seem to me that the John who wrote the Book of Revelation is writing with an authority of a bishop to the seven churches he mentions. This is clearly not mentioned here for a reason. I'm wondering what that reason is. Student7 ( talk) 01:39, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Koyasan Buddhist Temple has a list of bishops, who seem to be the temple leaders since its foundation. Is the title used elsewhere in Buddhism, or is this instance more of a cultural adaptation? -- BDD ( talk) 02:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
This article already has some overlap with the page, and is not sufficient for its own page. ReformedArsenal ( talk) 11:52, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
The general gist of this section is basically accurate, but the mention of Diocletian and his division of the empire into dioceses in this context is misleading. In particular, the phrase, "The most usual term for the geographic area of a bishop's authority and ministry, the diocese, began as part of the structure of the Roman Empire under Diocletian." is false and misleading. The term "diocese" (dioikesis) had many different meanings, and its use predates the establishment of the Roman Empire in the east (let alone Diocletian). One such use was in reference to the area surrounding a city (civitas) and dependent on that city for civil administration. It is this sense of "diocese" which is most relevant to the development of what would become the jurisdiction of Christian bishops. The dioceses establishment by Diocletian were something else altogether...they in no way correspond to the dioceses of bishops. The dioceses set up by Diocletian encompass relatively large geographic areas, there were only 12 (later 13) in the entire empire. The jurisdiction of a bishop was obviously much smaller than that. Ocyril ( talk) 20:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
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The pic of the Eastern mitre is not a bishop's mitre, but that of a senior priest. A bishop's mitre would also have a cross on top. Homoousian ( talk) 23:08, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
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HI HOw Are y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:648:8502:C680:5006:5343:E9BE:5B1E ( talk) 22:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Laurel Lodged: on what grounds do you call the existence of Buddhist bishops "fringe at best"? Yes, the term may also be translated (literally) to "chancellor", but that is not the term used by Buddhist Churches of America or the Shingon temple in question. They call their leaders bishops. The term has been used for decades, if not more than a century. The Buddhist Churches of America is the oldest Buddhist organization in the United States and it is part of the largest Jodo Shinshu-sect in the world. The term "bishop" is also the term used by scholars, they seldom use the Japanese term and never the word "chancellor". The inclusion of this possible "translation" is only to make it clear that "bishop" is not a literal translation. But this does not have any relevance, since the official title is bishop.
Furthermore, to make some analogies... We do not write "Swans are white birds..." because most swans are white. The existence of Buddhist bishops in official, recognized religious institutions with long histories, makes it necessary to nuance this article. Just because Buddhists are a minority in relation to Christians does not make it right to exclude them entirely.
Best wishes, Sigvid ( talk) 09:51, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
I've added some links to the introduction. Bear in mind that many readers don't know what terms like sanctify, pastoral mean, and talking about "fullness of the (ministerial) priesthood" needs links to help people explain. The lead was very technical and maybe some of the jargon needs to be better explained for non-Christians. 31.51.209.241 ( talk) 16:48, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
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Bishop article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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I'm not happy with the first sentence, but want to make clear that a bishop is a person, not an order. Also, changed wording on diocese because I happen to live in a geographically very small diocese with a large population. -- Vicki Rosenzweig (writing, again, about other people's religions, hoping to keep to NPOV)
Removed the HRE thing because it bishops were often secular lords all over Europe, not just in and during the HRE. Needs to be written in a way that works. JHK
Just added some more info on Orthodox bishops but left it stated as applying to all, simply because I think most or all of the info also applies to other bishops. If parts of it do not, I'll let someone more informed make that plainer. Wesley
Ccontrary to 11/21/02 posting, LDS bishops are direct heirs of apostolic succession in LDS/Mormon theology. -Randy 11/21/02
There should be more info on bishops in the early church, and possibly the role played by bishops in synods and councils. I'll try and come back to this when I can, if no one else does first. Wesley 13:29 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)
I'd like to say I found the beginning of this article to be a beautiful example of NPOV. I'm a member of a Church of Christ that believes in doing things exactly the way as described in the New Testament. I approached this article with fear, figuring I would see only modern definitions of the bishop. I was really impressed with the section about bishops in the New Testament. It very accurately described what we do, and I feel it did a great job being NPOV about it; there didn't seem to be any value judgments at all toward the different ways that churches define bishop. I especially appreciated the delicate way the article stated that it is possible to read the New Testament as applying bishop, pastor, and elder to the same office because we do indeed take it that way.
I was redirected here from the right reverend, but the article makes no mention of that phrase whatsoever. what's the deal? Stubblyhead 19:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Since when was/is a person a bishop (esp. in late-medieval (14th and 15th cent.) England)? Since his election/nomination? Since his consecration? Or since the transfer of the temporalities? Or more than one of these? So when did a bishopric's Sede vacante end after the death/deposition/resignment/.. of a bishop? -- A_W_K ( talk) 10:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
May I offer a guess that on election/nomination a new bishop is/was just a bishop-elect, and only becomes a bishop (if those involved take their religion seriously) at the point of consecration? ShropshirePilgrim ( talk) 10:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
I'm fairly certain that all archbishops that head ecclesiastical provinces in those churches also hold the title metropolitan. All Roman Catholic bishops do, and the term metropolitan comes from the Eastern churches, which draw a distinction between an archbishop and a metropolitan archbishop. The only group I am uncertain of is Anglican churches, although the Archbishop of Canterbury is the metropolitan bishop of his ecclesiastical province. Are there Anglican bishops that function like metropolitans but do not take the title metropolitan? Pmadrid 22:58, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Note that although the Methodist Church in Britain may have had bishops in the 19th century, it no longer does. The nearest equivalent position is that of District Chairman/Chairwoman -- Ian Rutt
Not sure what denomination this is, but the section is very confusing; it is pretty unclear what a bishop is or does in the NAC. If someone knows more about the NAC, perhaps some clarification would be possible. KHM03 17:45, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Some material from Ignatius of Antioch should probably be in here since he had a lot to say about the Bishop. There should at least be a reference.
Is this a misspelling for deacon? Rich Farmbrough 09:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There is a problem with the usage of these terms in this article. Technically speaking the Roman Catholic Church and the so-called Latin Catholic Church are the same. Rome is a Latin city. The Eastern Catholic Churches (in communion with Rome) do not refer to themselves as Roman Catholic. Rome is specifically western (Latin). It does not mean in communion with Rome. Please see the website http://www.east2west.org for an explanation of Eastern Catholic churches, and their relationship to their sister church, the Roman Catholic Church, all of which, together, form "the Catholic Church", under the authority of the successor of St. Peter, the Bishop of Rome. User:66.42.173.111 01:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a large amount of reference to Suffragan Bishops, but there is no article, I feel there should be perhaps a small seperate article, explaining exactly what one is - and perhaps a small list of notable ones. Ideas?
Anthropax 15:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I think we should add a section on how the bishops came about. There is evidence that since, in the bible, there is little instruction on how to govern the church, that Christians took their "catse system" from the Roman government.
I would suggest that Valid Bishops would be better merged into either Historic episcopate or Apostolic Succession (and then deleted; it is an orphan—see what links there) . Of course, interesting material could also be copied to Bishop. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 19:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Joseph, from a Roman Catholic and some Anglo-Catholic perspectives, an "invalid" bishop could also be, say, a Methodist bishop.
Personally, I think that the article should be merged with historic episcopate. Carolynparrishfan 15:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone who's experienced with dealing with images in articles needs to figure out a way to fix the position of the mitre picture at the very beginning of the article.
It's stuffing up the position of the TOC.
I tried to center or right it instead, but that causes a big gap at the top of the article till when the Christianity template ends. -- `/aksha 08:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I infer from other articles in Wikipedia that it was once (early middle ages) considered a serious crime for a bishop to leave his diocese to take up the episcopacy of another. I believe that a recently deceased pope was once condemned for doing this and for approving the practice in others. Obviously, this view is no longer followed in the Catholic church; bishops who do well in a small diocese are routinely "promoted" to a larger one. What changed? How and when did the change take place? Rwflammang 15:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe you may be talking about "pluralism," not in the sense of many ideas, but in the canonical sense of holding more than one job at a time. It was common in the Middle Ages for a bishop to hold more than one diocese at a time, and thus collect numerous salaries/have possession of numerous endowment funds/own numerous estates. This was made a crime by the Catholic Church a number of times, but was definitively cracked down upon by the Council of Trent. HarvardOxon 01:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, with the rise of a centralized administration in Rome, and more organized canonical bureaucracy, the Nicaea issue gave way to excardination as a matter of course, and translation of bishops at the direction of the bishop of Rome. I'm confused by his post, as translation of prelates and excardination of other clergy has been happily practicing for centuries, Nicea isn't quite "early Middle Ages," and I don't know of a "recently deceased pope" who was accused either of pluralism or violating Nicaea. HarvardOxon
In the case of the Bishop of Rome, there was nobody to dispense him. The only body with possible authority over a pope was a General Council, and these were called on rare occasions to resolve stalemates. For much of the Middle ages, the Pope was therefore selected from someone other than a bishop elsewhere--as can be seen in the articles here on the various popes. Some were abbots. Most, in the early middle ages, were members of the Roman clergy, and there were a number of offices among them from whom bishops were often chosen. Again see the bios, which are ultimately based on the Liber Pontificalis. Again, it would be interesting to see how that changed. DGG 08:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
The most conspicuous omission from this article is a mention of European Protestant churches alongside the American Lutheran church. Can someone fill in about, for example, the Church of Sweden, which I think is a Lutheran church with bishops? 193.63.239.165 10:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
What's the proper way of saying mr John Doe is a Bishop? I'm talking something like a Dr. Doe, what's the equivalent?
The section "Bishops in the Apostolic Fathers" begins with "At the turn of the first century AD, ..." Does this mean around 100 AD? I would think that would be the turn of the second century, with the "turn of the first century" as around the year 1 AD (an impossibility). See 1st century. I'm confused. Steve Baskauf 01:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I presume today's decision on women as bishops (and the Vatican reaction) will be included shortly (and "someone" will do a comic sketch on the Archbishop of Canterbury and Archbishop of York marrying each other.) Jackiespeel ( talk) 14:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
lol
71.171.115.53 ( talk) 22:55, 18 November 2008 (UTC) ajb
Just thought I'd point out that there's no information on mode of formal address. Someone might want to include that. -- Pstanton ( talk) 03:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
A google for Bishop's verge should show importance of mentioning "verge" and "verger" and the Bishop's staff at his seat. see crosier at our http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosier G. Robert Shiplett 13:23, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
The claim that episkopos and presbuteros were synonyms in the Bible is very far from undisputed -- and along demonational lines. Goldfritha ( talk) 02:38, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
AFAIK popes (in Rome and Alexandria) are comparable to patriarchs, archbishops and catholicoi, so they should for completeness be mentioned in section Catholic Church, Orthodox churches and Anglican churches. Rursus dixit. ( mbork3!) 19:31, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
It would seem to me that the John who wrote the Book of Revelation is writing with an authority of a bishop to the seven churches he mentions. This is clearly not mentioned here for a reason. I'm wondering what that reason is. Student7 ( talk) 01:39, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Koyasan Buddhist Temple has a list of bishops, who seem to be the temple leaders since its foundation. Is the title used elsewhere in Buddhism, or is this instance more of a cultural adaptation? -- BDD ( talk) 02:25, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
This article already has some overlap with the page, and is not sufficient for its own page. ReformedArsenal ( talk) 11:52, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
The general gist of this section is basically accurate, but the mention of Diocletian and his division of the empire into dioceses in this context is misleading. In particular, the phrase, "The most usual term for the geographic area of a bishop's authority and ministry, the diocese, began as part of the structure of the Roman Empire under Diocletian." is false and misleading. The term "diocese" (dioikesis) had many different meanings, and its use predates the establishment of the Roman Empire in the east (let alone Diocletian). One such use was in reference to the area surrounding a city (civitas) and dependent on that city for civil administration. It is this sense of "diocese" which is most relevant to the development of what would become the jurisdiction of Christian bishops. The dioceses establishment by Diocletian were something else altogether...they in no way correspond to the dioceses of bishops. The dioceses set up by Diocletian encompass relatively large geographic areas, there were only 12 (later 13) in the entire empire. The jurisdiction of a bishop was obviously much smaller than that. Ocyril ( talk) 20:19, 3 September 2014 (UTC)
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The pic of the Eastern mitre is not a bishop's mitre, but that of a senior priest. A bishop's mitre would also have a cross on top. Homoousian ( talk) 23:08, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
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HI HOw Are y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:648:8502:C680:5006:5343:E9BE:5B1E ( talk) 22:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Laurel Lodged: on what grounds do you call the existence of Buddhist bishops "fringe at best"? Yes, the term may also be translated (literally) to "chancellor", but that is not the term used by Buddhist Churches of America or the Shingon temple in question. They call their leaders bishops. The term has been used for decades, if not more than a century. The Buddhist Churches of America is the oldest Buddhist organization in the United States and it is part of the largest Jodo Shinshu-sect in the world. The term "bishop" is also the term used by scholars, they seldom use the Japanese term and never the word "chancellor". The inclusion of this possible "translation" is only to make it clear that "bishop" is not a literal translation. But this does not have any relevance, since the official title is bishop.
Furthermore, to make some analogies... We do not write "Swans are white birds..." because most swans are white. The existence of Buddhist bishops in official, recognized religious institutions with long histories, makes it necessary to nuance this article. Just because Buddhists are a minority in relation to Christians does not make it right to exclude them entirely.
Best wishes, Sigvid ( talk) 09:51, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:07, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
I've added some links to the introduction. Bear in mind that many readers don't know what terms like sanctify, pastoral mean, and talking about "fullness of the (ministerial) priesthood" needs links to help people explain. The lead was very technical and maybe some of the jargon needs to be better explained for non-Christians. 31.51.209.241 ( talk) 16:48, 13 November 2022 (UTC)