This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Benjamin Zephaniah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 28 days |
A news item involving Benjamin Zephaniah was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 8 December 2023. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I see it's already tagged, but just bringing it to the page. The source provided uses the same vague "caught up" phrasing. Did Zephaniah riot in the 1980s, was he a victim or just a witness? The quote "They happened around me" leans to witness, but "I was a big protestor, not just against racism but also apartheid." suggests activism, though the phrasing is not clear that he's referring to the same place and time.
Any other sources would be gratefully received. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 13:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
He was an honorary patron of The Vegan Society, Viva! (Vegetarians' International Voice for Animals), and EVOLVE! Campaigns, and was an animal rights advocate.
There is a broken link in reference 45. The current link to the Ambassador page is www.vegansociety.com/society/whos-involved/ambassadors.
He presented The Vegan Society's video on veganism "TRUTH OR DAIRY: who, what, where, when, how and why vegan" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il20eie8tgg in 1994 and wrote the song "Love the Life" for the society in celebration of World Vegan Month in 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8UfTJoFr9w Vhist1847 ( talk) 20:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
I have again restored the original linking in the lede.
This was originally replaced, with the edit summary "ce/fmt, De-link common terms (by script) per MOS:OVERLINK", which includes no justification for removing them.
It has since been removed with edit summaries referring to WP:NOTBROKEN, which does not support replacing the original links.
Unfortunately, while I have ben writing this comment, the same editor is now edit warring to remove them, with an edit summary including "take to talk", despite not having done so themself. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
There is usually nothing wrong with linking to redirects to articles. Some editors are tempted, upon finding a link to a redirect page, to bypass the redirect and point the link directly at the target page. However, changing to a piped link is beneficial only in a few cases. Piping links solely to avoid redirects is generally a time-wasting exercise that can actually be detrimental. It is almost never helpful to replace, which is exactly what you have done, here and here. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 16:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[[redirect]]
with[[target|redirect]]
.
vegan
as
vegan
,
first-past-the-post
as
first-past-the-post
or
alternative vote
as
alternative vote
. They all link to the same pages and, according to the guideline, a piped link is completely unnecessary. ‑‑
Neveselbert (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 16:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
[[Veganism|vegan]]
to [[vegan]]
?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 17:02, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
vegan
. ‑‑
Neveselbert (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 17:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
vegan
when
vegan redirects to
veganism, and so on? It's absurd. The idea that NOTBROKEN supports a mass campaign of changing existing piped links to redirectsis not an argument I've ever made. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 19:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
Redirects can indicate possible future articles (see {{ R with possibilities}}).. It's entirely possible
vegan
,
British electoral system
,
animal rights activist
could become separate articles from
Veganism,
Animal rights movement and
Parliament of the United Kingdom, for example (especially the last one, seeing as
British electoral system redirects to the same article
Electoral system of the United Kingdom links to).
Anarchism is considered, per
WP:COMMONTERMS, to be too vague a link, so a link to
Anarchism in the United Kingdom appears more appropriate in this instance, since the subject is from the United Kingdom. Per Introducing unnecessary invisible text makes the article more difficult to read in page source form., piping
first-past-the-post
and
alternative vote
just seems entirely unnecessary, and the latter can be argued to be contrary to the spirit of
WP:ASTONISH given that "alternative vote" is not a part of the target article's title. Furthermore, Non-piped links make better use of the "what links here" tool, making it easier to track how articles are linked and helping with large-scale changes to links.and
If editors persistently use a redirect instead of an article title, it may be that the article needs to be moved rather than the redirect changed. As such the systematic "fixing of redirects" may eradicate useful information which can be used to help decide on the "best" article title.are also worthy considerations in favour of removing these pipes. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 14:30, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
The wording of especially the lead section doesn't give off a neutral tone.
The article is undoubtedly well done, but, as I think someone else has pointed out before, it sounds like a eulogy.
Needs heavy rewording.
25eanglin ( talk) 16:53, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Described as "the people's laureate" by the Birmingham Mail" from the lead section? I think that's a perfectly fair claim, which provides a useful summary of his work, and is supported by the content in the article main body. So I think it is perfectly appropriate for inclusion in the lead section, sorry. Would be interested to see what others think. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Benjamin Zephaniah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 28 days |
A news item involving Benjamin Zephaniah was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 8 December 2023. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I see it's already tagged, but just bringing it to the page. The source provided uses the same vague "caught up" phrasing. Did Zephaniah riot in the 1980s, was he a victim or just a witness? The quote "They happened around me" leans to witness, but "I was a big protestor, not just against racism but also apartheid." suggests activism, though the phrasing is not clear that he's referring to the same place and time.
Any other sources would be gratefully received. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 13:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
He was an honorary patron of The Vegan Society, Viva! (Vegetarians' International Voice for Animals), and EVOLVE! Campaigns, and was an animal rights advocate.
There is a broken link in reference 45. The current link to the Ambassador page is www.vegansociety.com/society/whos-involved/ambassadors.
He presented The Vegan Society's video on veganism "TRUTH OR DAIRY: who, what, where, when, how and why vegan" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il20eie8tgg in 1994 and wrote the song "Love the Life" for the society in celebration of World Vegan Month in 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8UfTJoFr9w Vhist1847 ( talk) 20:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
I have again restored the original linking in the lede.
This was originally replaced, with the edit summary "ce/fmt, De-link common terms (by script) per MOS:OVERLINK", which includes no justification for removing them.
It has since been removed with edit summaries referring to WP:NOTBROKEN, which does not support replacing the original links.
Unfortunately, while I have ben writing this comment, the same editor is now edit warring to remove them, with an edit summary including "take to talk", despite not having done so themself. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
There is usually nothing wrong with linking to redirects to articles. Some editors are tempted, upon finding a link to a redirect page, to bypass the redirect and point the link directly at the target page. However, changing to a piped link is beneficial only in a few cases. Piping links solely to avoid redirects is generally a time-wasting exercise that can actually be detrimental. It is almost never helpful to replace, which is exactly what you have done, here and here. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 16:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[[redirect]]
with[[target|redirect]]
.
vegan
as
vegan
,
first-past-the-post
as
first-past-the-post
or
alternative vote
as
alternative vote
. They all link to the same pages and, according to the guideline, a piped link is completely unnecessary. ‑‑
Neveselbert (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 16:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
[[Veganism|vegan]]
to [[vegan]]
?
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 17:02, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
vegan
. ‑‑
Neveselbert (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 17:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
vegan
when
vegan redirects to
veganism, and so on? It's absurd. The idea that NOTBROKEN supports a mass campaign of changing existing piped links to redirectsis not an argument I've ever made. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 19:15, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
Redirects can indicate possible future articles (see {{ R with possibilities}}).. It's entirely possible
vegan
,
British electoral system
,
animal rights activist
could become separate articles from
Veganism,
Animal rights movement and
Parliament of the United Kingdom, for example (especially the last one, seeing as
British electoral system redirects to the same article
Electoral system of the United Kingdom links to).
Anarchism is considered, per
WP:COMMONTERMS, to be too vague a link, so a link to
Anarchism in the United Kingdom appears more appropriate in this instance, since the subject is from the United Kingdom. Per Introducing unnecessary invisible text makes the article more difficult to read in page source form., piping
first-past-the-post
and
alternative vote
just seems entirely unnecessary, and the latter can be argued to be contrary to the spirit of
WP:ASTONISH given that "alternative vote" is not a part of the target article's title. Furthermore, Non-piped links make better use of the "what links here" tool, making it easier to track how articles are linked and helping with large-scale changes to links.and
If editors persistently use a redirect instead of an article title, it may be that the article needs to be moved rather than the redirect changed. As such the systematic "fixing of redirects" may eradicate useful information which can be used to help decide on the "best" article title.are also worthy considerations in favour of removing these pipes. ‑‑ Neveselbert ( talk · contribs · email) 14:30, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
The wording of especially the lead section doesn't give off a neutral tone.
The article is undoubtedly well done, but, as I think someone else has pointed out before, it sounds like a eulogy.
Needs heavy rewording.
25eanglin ( talk) 16:53, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Described as "the people's laureate" by the Birmingham Mail" from the lead section? I think that's a perfectly fair claim, which provides a useful summary of his work, and is supported by the content in the article main body. So I think it is perfectly appropriate for inclusion in the lead section, sorry. Would be interested to see what others think. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)