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This is not an accurate statement because what is tiny to one person is not tiny to another. It also infers that the ammonia is only on the untreated meat for "less than a second", which in fact is the ammonia product is actually inside the finished treated product.
This was obviously written by the company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.26.179 ( talk • contribs) 08:55, 9 September 2011 UTC
When defining the process - wouldn't the company be more inclined to know how the process actually works? The various false and misleading reports have already been debunked by science, industry, and academics and described by some as media hyped scare tactics. Is it then fare to promote or republish these false reports? I would like 67.171.26.179 to advise how he knows the specifics of how the ammonia is applied and how he can prove it is any different than what the company states. The companies process definition has been verified by reputable sources. I would like 67.171.26.179 to expand. Also,tiny has one meaning "small". If the company and the reputable reports all describe it as such - how can that be subject for debate - unless of course that person has information to the contrary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:55, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the multiple issues tag, which had classified this article as a peacock, advertisement, and needing improved references.
This article has plenty of references for one of its size and does not read like an advertisement if you ask me. I have changed some of the language to be more neutral & less passive, and I don't believe it qualifies as a peacock article.
I'm not even sure it needs to be checked for neutrality, because facts kind of speak for themselves. It may, however, give too much weight to the ammonia process. What does the Wikipedia community think? SweetNightmares (awaken) 17:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Is simply an inane and silly wording. Kindly do not revert to it again per WP:EW. Collect ( talk) 12:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
This this seems like it's mostly an article about pink slime, especially the intro and not an article about the company, we need to fix that.20:42, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Firstly, I noticed several pieces of information that used to be in the article have since been removed. They are relevant to the company and factual, and they come from reliable sources, so they have been restored. I will be keeping a close eye on this article from now on.
Second, there is hardly a need for the controversy section and it goes against Wikipedia policy (see WP:CSECTION). Yes, the company is having trouble, but rather than trying to be partisan about it let's write an NPOV article together. There is no reason that information can't be stored under "history."
Finally, I feel that many parts of the article ("several supermarkets and fast-food companies," "several state governors,") were too vague, so I have specified the concerned parties. On the other hand, the implication about ABC/FOX being solely responsible for the "flurry of media coverage" is inaccurate and has been changed accordingly. - Sweet Nightmares 19:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
"Pink slime" is not found in any standard dictionary. LWC says "it is in Wiktionary" -- where, wonder of wonders, the entry was created by ... Luciferwildcat. I suggested to him that he self-revert as he is at a blatant 3RR at this point, but if he does not, I suggest that the edit war where he wants to use the word he, himself, created the Wiktionary entry for, is absurd. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 03:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Since Lucifer decided to keep us all in the dark, I'll enlighten everyone: there is a discussion being had at the Village pump. I would appreciate everyone's input. - Sweet Nightmares 21:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The material below was copied from a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Pink slime and scare quotes.
The article for pink slime has been the subject of repeated intentional and obvious abuse and NPOV issued as evidenced from masses of pro pink slime propaganda eminating from areas where the product is made that went along with whitewashing of anything "negative" about the product. Nevertheless this was spotted and the article improved to be one of our best, upon repeated and now perennial discussions the consensus has been every time that scare quotes should not be used and that the common name is pink slime. The scare quotes are actually not even used the majority of the time by even the media and are visually distracting and imply a POV that is not needed our readers are smart enough to decide on their own without us telling them to question any of the words used to describe what is produced by BPI as "lean, finely textured beef". However on the article for the company itself, an article that has been repeatedly clearcut in complete support of the company some users or editors many which have proven to be obvious company agents or sympathizers often new, single purpose, or anonymous accounts have insisted on reviving the issue and inserting the scare quotes.
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
RfC Response: Both terms shall be used. The first is one created by an organization and used by others in the industry (all industries may at times use terms different from what the general public may use). The latter one is also used by organizations and is certainly a neologism so the expectation that it should appear in a dictionary is a bit pre-mature. Similar to Wikipedia:Article titles#Common names, the technical term may not be the best term for an article title, so too should an article mention what is used frequently in reliable sources. If quotation marks are to be used, they should be applied to both terms equally (this may change in the future after the term(s) have had a longer history of being used). If the reader wants to know more about the terms, they can click on the relevant article, as this article is about a company, not a product. Zepppep ( talk) 04:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I see consensus to put both terms in quotes equally since the legitimacy of both terms is challenged by different stakeholders in this controversy, agreed? LuciferWildCat ( talk) 19:24, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Um -- of all the people not suposed to close, I think you are in the lead. The only specific clear consensus above is absolutely that "pink slime" is a neologism required to be in quotation marks. And the only "stake" I have is to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Cheers
Collect (
talk)
20:39, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
ok i understand that LFTB is a big toppic, but this article is about the company not LFTB, why is the lead of this article so focused on the product and not the company? how many employees does it have? is it publicly traded? is it family owned? im doing some changes to resolve this issue. basically reorganize the article to make more sense. Aperseghin ( talk) 13:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok i made some changes, kept all the content but separated the lead from the products. did not remove any information, just organized it better. if there are any issues please let me know Aperseghin ( talk) 14:18, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Because pink slime is their main product, what else do they make? Also its the one of greatest historical significance and the lead of an article should summarize its contents from further down. Regardless the history here is quite incomplete. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 20:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Including the fact that readers will think the comments were made on this page, as the history of the comments is lost by such a move. I restored the comments on the original article talk page per Wikipedia guidelines and policies, but will not remove the incorrectly placed material here. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 22:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I think in this case it's acceptable. Please put your personal differences aside here; this talk page is supposed to be about bettering the article. Moving that discussion here was pertinent and constructive, since the other discussion was closed for being held in an inappropriate place. - Sweet Nightmares 04:33, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Parts of this article are just copy and paste from BPI's website, the lead in is word for word from the frontpage of the website. Most of it read more like a press release then an article 66.31.194.76 ( talk) 00:03, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The bias I believe is the other way around. I can easily direct people to reputable source material that dispels the myths and in some case outright lies about this company and it's product. The company disputes the "pink slime" moniker and has sued ABC and others and finds the term offensive - they further state it isn't true and this has been validated by multiple sources. Not some guy handing out on the internet - but, meat scientist, journalists that have filed stories that actually did their homework first, and industry experts. Just as some don't feel inclined to read "press releases" I feel it's imperative that we don't repeat the same false negative information just because some may feel it has a cute name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:09, 2 January 2013 (UTC) This page is rife with incorrect and charged wording. Editors should be more even handed when looking at changes and deciding on ammendments to this page. Very inflamatory and false language here. I would change or attempt to - but it's obvious from the previous attempts to corret disinformation here that it would be a moot point. -- 50.95.87.3 ( talk) 15:11, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
This isn't accurate - LFTB was approved for ground beef in 1993 by the USDA. LFTB was never used in dog food or cooking oil. Using Jamie Oliver a celebrity chef as a source isn't what I would consider reputable source material for such a statement. I've removed it and I offer these examples as to why it's inaccurate and this page shouldn't be forum to promote propaganda. USDA - http://www.meatami.com/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/76330 http://www.scribd.com/doc/105816180/13/The-USDA%E2%80%99s-1993-Approval-of-Lean-Finely-Textured-Beef http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=697&yr=2012
The source is incorrect - I've more than demonstrated that. This is activist publication and the "powers that be" here are refusing to look at the facts - or have formed an opinion albeit incorrect and aren't being very "neutral. Since I can't access the book and can't verify the source material - I'll have to take someones word it even states this. USDA vs. Fear of Food and we're going with Fear of Food. Really? I've contacted a few libraries and none of them carry it that are within reasonable driving distance. Amazon it is then. I'm going to contact Chicago Free Press and ask them to validate this information from a credible knowledgeable source. I'll advise.
Levenstein, Harvey (2012). Fear of food : a history of why we worry about what we eat. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. pp. 59. ISBN 0226473740.
-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 22:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC) I've got a call in to speak with the editor of this book and was advised they would call me once the publisher can track them down. Since when we're comparing sources and mine aren't meeting spec for some odd reason (wonder why?) I'll simply go to the source material myself and point out the inaccuracies. Just because it's published doesn't make it fact based. When someone makes a good faith effort to see to it that facts are represented and this isn't a forum to further propaganda - I would think we would have a common interest in that. Like I wrote earlier...I'll advise. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 22:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
This isn't accurate - LFTB was approved for ground beef in 1993 by the USDA. LFTB was never used in dog food or cooking oil. Using Jamie Oliver a celebrity chef as a source isn't what I would consider reputable source material for such a statement. I've removed it and I offer these examples as to why it's inaccurate and this page shouldn't be forum to promote propaganda. USDA - http://www.meatami.com/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/76330 http://www.scribd.com/doc/105816180/13/The-USDA%E2%80%99s-1993-Approval-of-Lean-Finely-Textured-Beef http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=697&yr=2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC) -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:07, 3 January 2013 (UTC) This was removed because it isn't accurate. Nothing in the above mentioned sentence is true. -- 50.95.87.3 ( talk) 15:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
BPI doesn't sell LFTB to grinders outside of the united states. Therefore, this information has nothing to do with Beef Products or LFTB. I've removed it for that reason. BPI voluntarily began testing for additional STEC's, or the BIG 6 as they're known in the industry because they choose to - not as a reaction to something in a country that they're beef isn't even consumed in. Please see below for verification. I will gladly point interested parties to more information pertaining to this if need. Thank you.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/07/bpi-initiates-testing-for-big-6-e-coli-strains/#.UOXAqeSHJ8E -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Now, two major American companies, Costco Wholesale and Beef Products Inc., have gotten tired of waiting for regulators to act. They are proceeding with their own plans to protect customers. Your reliable source
The devastating outbreak of illness in Europe this spring was caused by yet another rare form of E. coli, O104:H4, which investigators say was spread through tainted sprouts. What do sprouts have to do with BPI? It appears you're trying to insinuate that BPI caused the outbreak. The outbreak in Europe had nothing to do with BPI or its voluntary testing. Please don't parse words. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 19:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
The FDA has nothing to do with an E coli outbreak in Europe - no jurisdiction - no oversight. I'm not promoting and am only trying to have a fair and balanced article. Nothing more - noting less. It appears you have an agenda. E coli outbreaks in Europe don't belong in this article. You seem to be getting testy - no need for that...-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 20:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Well you should see someone about that. I tend to get testy as well, when I encounter people who can obviously write - but can't read. Strange dichotomy. I'm not looking to promote - I'm looking to prevent others a blank check to slander. I comprehend just fine. I didn't know you were in a position to be directing me to do anything.-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 20:53, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to jump in here and try to sort a few things out.
Here's a list of concerns about the article that we need to discuss. Feel free to edit this section and add something if you would like to discuss it. If I've included something that's not in contention, please let us know.
I'll start with the lawsuit. I personally feel that the lawsuit should been mentioned briefly with one or two sentences. There seems to be a case to be had so if ABC reported something that may not be true, that should be mentioned along with what ABC claimed. The product having been use for pet food and cooking oil was made by Harvey Levenstein. He's a "professor emeritus of history at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario" and the book he published this claim in Fear of food : a history of why we worry about what we eat, a book published by The University of Chicago Press. Using Google Books,
I have confirmed that this is stated in the book ( although I see it on page 59, not 55). Search the book for "pet food" if you're having trouble finding it. Chuck, if you are who I think you are, I value your expertise here when you say that this isn't true. Even if you aren't who I think you are, to support your claim, we would still need an independent and reliable source that refutes this claim. Do you have any reliable sources that say that it was never used in animal food and cooking oils?
So to be clear, I feel that both sides of the lawsuit should be mentioned briefly and the claim that the product was used in pet food and cooking oil should be included in the article. Does anyone have any reason why that should not be the case? OlYeller21 Talktome 18:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I was tied up my my apologize - I'll re-engage shortly. Thank you for putting this on your watch list and please continue to keep and open dialogue with me. Standby please -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC) 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC)-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC) Please consider Meat Scientist (two sources) in a statement provided to FSN http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/how-will-bpis-plant-closures-affect-americas-beef/#.UPbY2B2Tl8E - “It disturbs me that the public will listen to the media over someone who does science and research in the area,” Acuff said. “A scientist doesn’t stand a chance against a celebrity news personality, as sad as that is.”
“We need to step up and be the clear-thinking, informed source of information — before it is too late,” they went on, calling on science-minded individuals in the food industry to speak up and defend the science behind LFTB.
“We are sick and tired of the news media hijacking the truth, minimizing science, frightening consumers and creating a false crisis, just to boost their ratings,” they wrote. ”Lean Fine-Textured Beef is not unsafe, deceptive or pet food.” Also, from someone with first hand knowledge of the process please consider Jeremy Russell's expert opinion on the statement in question. http://nmaonline.org/pdf/pr3_8_12.pdf OAKLAND, CA – ABC World News ran a story yesterday focused on the claims of two disgruntled scientists formerly with USDA. These men deride Lean Finely-Textured Beef (LFTB) as nothing but “pink slime.” However, there’s nothing that is scientific or factual about their claims. LFTB is produced using a technology developed and used by Beef Products, Inc. (BPI) to ensure improved safety of beef and beef trimmings. In fact, the company has been recognized by the USDA, consumer safety groups, and food protection organizations for its innovations in food safety, and its lean beef products have undergone rigorous and comprehensive testing. The raw material that the company uses is not scraps destined for pet food. It is Federally-inspected, high-quality beef trim. As agreed upon earlier I will refrain from removing inaccuracies myself, but will make suggestions for changes and support those suggestions with fact based data. Please review and advise. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes I do, I would like additional input on a course of action here.Thank you -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 19:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
This article used to be half decent. Looks like someone trudged on through and mucked it up again. I give up. - Sweet Nightmares 01:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I haven't edited anything since I advised you that I would work through the talk page. Which I have done. Therefore, you haven't found the culprit. I'm not even sure what recent changes you're fired up about. I've done nothing but try and balance out fact with some peoples fiction. I can verify, backup and prove what I say - write - and cite. I only ask that others do the same. I saw this comment and thought I should respond. 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 21:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a newspaper -- the salient fact is that many chains stopped using a product, not the naming of specific chains where the list is not all inclusive -- thus we may improperly imply to readers that the ones not named still use the product. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 22:31, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Collect, deleting large sections of text unilaterally is uncalled for. The edits you made have not even been discussed here, so you can hardly claim consensus has been made. As for the separate topic, dealing with the removal of the names of BPI's former clients, there is also no consensus. As a matter of fact, even if there was, it would not be in your favor. I see further up in a discussion about neologisms you also get confused about the meaning of consensus; maybe this can be of some help to you. I'd like to point you specifically to the first bullet point under the "No consensus" heading: "In deletion discussions, no consensus normally results in the article, image, or other content being kept." Please refrain from making further changes until we get a few more voices. As this is not a time sensitive issue, I believe there is no need at present for a RfC; let feedback come in organically. - Sweet Nightmares 00:11, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
The page has been protected for 3 days so you can talk out your dispute. If the edit warring resumes when protection expires, you will both receive a block. -- Spike Wilbury ( talk) 01:06, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Should this article enumerate the companies which no longer use or never used the Beef Product "lean finely textured beef"? Collect ( talk)
I suggest that the list, which is not exhaustive, is better served by the word "many fast food chains" than a list of five specific companies, and the word "abandon" is less neutral than "cease selling" is. Collect ( talk) 01:37, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Closed, as consensus appears to be unanimous in keeping the names of the chains who used to use the product. - Sweet Nightmares 16:26, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Given there has been a lawsuit by BPI against ABC and there is likely to be a countersuit, should the lawsuit have it's own section, that way as the case winds around, it can be modified or redrafted with less difficulty then if it's in another section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patbahn ( talk • contribs) 23:57, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
there is a line that says "Journalists", it may be better to say "Journalists have reported concerns raised by Public Interest advocates such as Food and Water Watch or GAP Food Integrity "
Journalists aren't supposed to leap into stories, they are supposed to be a bit more neutral.--
Patbahn (
talk)
00:00, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
there is a line that says "Journalists", it may be better to say "Journalists have reported concerns raised by Public Interest advocates such as Food and Water Watch or GAP Food Integrity "
Journalists aren't supposed to leap into stories, they are supposed to be a bit more neutral.--
Patbahn (
talk)
00:00, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
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This is not an accurate statement because what is tiny to one person is not tiny to another. It also infers that the ammonia is only on the untreated meat for "less than a second", which in fact is the ammonia product is actually inside the finished treated product.
This was obviously written by the company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.26.179 ( talk • contribs) 08:55, 9 September 2011 UTC
When defining the process - wouldn't the company be more inclined to know how the process actually works? The various false and misleading reports have already been debunked by science, industry, and academics and described by some as media hyped scare tactics. Is it then fare to promote or republish these false reports? I would like 67.171.26.179 to advise how he knows the specifics of how the ammonia is applied and how he can prove it is any different than what the company states. The companies process definition has been verified by reputable sources. I would like 67.171.26.179 to expand. Also,tiny has one meaning "small". If the company and the reputable reports all describe it as such - how can that be subject for debate - unless of course that person has information to the contrary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:55, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the multiple issues tag, which had classified this article as a peacock, advertisement, and needing improved references.
This article has plenty of references for one of its size and does not read like an advertisement if you ask me. I have changed some of the language to be more neutral & less passive, and I don't believe it qualifies as a peacock article.
I'm not even sure it needs to be checked for neutrality, because facts kind of speak for themselves. It may, however, give too much weight to the ammonia process. What does the Wikipedia community think? SweetNightmares (awaken) 17:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Is simply an inane and silly wording. Kindly do not revert to it again per WP:EW. Collect ( talk) 12:03, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
This this seems like it's mostly an article about pink slime, especially the intro and not an article about the company, we need to fix that.20:42, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Firstly, I noticed several pieces of information that used to be in the article have since been removed. They are relevant to the company and factual, and they come from reliable sources, so they have been restored. I will be keeping a close eye on this article from now on.
Second, there is hardly a need for the controversy section and it goes against Wikipedia policy (see WP:CSECTION). Yes, the company is having trouble, but rather than trying to be partisan about it let's write an NPOV article together. There is no reason that information can't be stored under "history."
Finally, I feel that many parts of the article ("several supermarkets and fast-food companies," "several state governors,") were too vague, so I have specified the concerned parties. On the other hand, the implication about ABC/FOX being solely responsible for the "flurry of media coverage" is inaccurate and has been changed accordingly. - Sweet Nightmares 19:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
"Pink slime" is not found in any standard dictionary. LWC says "it is in Wiktionary" -- where, wonder of wonders, the entry was created by ... Luciferwildcat. I suggested to him that he self-revert as he is at a blatant 3RR at this point, but if he does not, I suggest that the edit war where he wants to use the word he, himself, created the Wiktionary entry for, is absurd. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 03:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Since Lucifer decided to keep us all in the dark, I'll enlighten everyone: there is a discussion being had at the Village pump. I would appreciate everyone's input. - Sweet Nightmares 21:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The material below was copied from a discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Pink slime and scare quotes.
The article for pink slime has been the subject of repeated intentional and obvious abuse and NPOV issued as evidenced from masses of pro pink slime propaganda eminating from areas where the product is made that went along with whitewashing of anything "negative" about the product. Nevertheless this was spotted and the article improved to be one of our best, upon repeated and now perennial discussions the consensus has been every time that scare quotes should not be used and that the common name is pink slime. The scare quotes are actually not even used the majority of the time by even the media and are visually distracting and imply a POV that is not needed our readers are smart enough to decide on their own without us telling them to question any of the words used to describe what is produced by BPI as "lean, finely textured beef". However on the article for the company itself, an article that has been repeatedly clearcut in complete support of the company some users or editors many which have proven to be obvious company agents or sympathizers often new, single purpose, or anonymous accounts have insisted on reviving the issue and inserting the scare quotes.
How should this sentence be written? Please select multiple versions in the preferred order of acceptability/compromise or add others:
Opinions
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
RfC Response: Both terms shall be used. The first is one created by an organization and used by others in the industry (all industries may at times use terms different from what the general public may use). The latter one is also used by organizations and is certainly a neologism so the expectation that it should appear in a dictionary is a bit pre-mature. Similar to Wikipedia:Article titles#Common names, the technical term may not be the best term for an article title, so too should an article mention what is used frequently in reliable sources. If quotation marks are to be used, they should be applied to both terms equally (this may change in the future after the term(s) have had a longer history of being used). If the reader wants to know more about the terms, they can click on the relevant article, as this article is about a company, not a product. Zepppep ( talk) 04:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I see consensus to put both terms in quotes equally since the legitimacy of both terms is challenged by different stakeholders in this controversy, agreed? LuciferWildCat ( talk) 19:24, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Um -- of all the people not suposed to close, I think you are in the lead. The only specific clear consensus above is absolutely that "pink slime" is a neologism required to be in quotation marks. And the only "stake" I have is to follow Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Cheers
Collect (
talk)
20:39, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
ok i understand that LFTB is a big toppic, but this article is about the company not LFTB, why is the lead of this article so focused on the product and not the company? how many employees does it have? is it publicly traded? is it family owned? im doing some changes to resolve this issue. basically reorganize the article to make more sense. Aperseghin ( talk) 13:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok i made some changes, kept all the content but separated the lead from the products. did not remove any information, just organized it better. if there are any issues please let me know Aperseghin ( talk) 14:18, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
Because pink slime is their main product, what else do they make? Also its the one of greatest historical significance and the lead of an article should summarize its contents from further down. Regardless the history here is quite incomplete. LuciferWildCat ( talk) 20:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
Including the fact that readers will think the comments were made on this page, as the history of the comments is lost by such a move. I restored the comments on the original article talk page per Wikipedia guidelines and policies, but will not remove the incorrectly placed material here. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 22:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I think in this case it's acceptable. Please put your personal differences aside here; this talk page is supposed to be about bettering the article. Moving that discussion here was pertinent and constructive, since the other discussion was closed for being held in an inappropriate place. - Sweet Nightmares 04:33, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Parts of this article are just copy and paste from BPI's website, the lead in is word for word from the frontpage of the website. Most of it read more like a press release then an article 66.31.194.76 ( talk) 00:03, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The bias I believe is the other way around. I can easily direct people to reputable source material that dispels the myths and in some case outright lies about this company and it's product. The company disputes the "pink slime" moniker and has sued ABC and others and finds the term offensive - they further state it isn't true and this has been validated by multiple sources. Not some guy handing out on the internet - but, meat scientist, journalists that have filed stories that actually did their homework first, and industry experts. Just as some don't feel inclined to read "press releases" I feel it's imperative that we don't repeat the same false negative information just because some may feel it has a cute name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:09, 2 January 2013 (UTC) This page is rife with incorrect and charged wording. Editors should be more even handed when looking at changes and deciding on ammendments to this page. Very inflamatory and false language here. I would change or attempt to - but it's obvious from the previous attempts to corret disinformation here that it would be a moot point. -- 50.95.87.3 ( talk) 15:11, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
This isn't accurate - LFTB was approved for ground beef in 1993 by the USDA. LFTB was never used in dog food or cooking oil. Using Jamie Oliver a celebrity chef as a source isn't what I would consider reputable source material for such a statement. I've removed it and I offer these examples as to why it's inaccurate and this page shouldn't be forum to promote propaganda. USDA - http://www.meatami.com/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/76330 http://www.scribd.com/doc/105816180/13/The-USDA%E2%80%99s-1993-Approval-of-Lean-Finely-Textured-Beef http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=697&yr=2012
The source is incorrect - I've more than demonstrated that. This is activist publication and the "powers that be" here are refusing to look at the facts - or have formed an opinion albeit incorrect and aren't being very "neutral. Since I can't access the book and can't verify the source material - I'll have to take someones word it even states this. USDA vs. Fear of Food and we're going with Fear of Food. Really? I've contacted a few libraries and none of them carry it that are within reasonable driving distance. Amazon it is then. I'm going to contact Chicago Free Press and ask them to validate this information from a credible knowledgeable source. I'll advise.
Levenstein, Harvey (2012). Fear of food : a history of why we worry about what we eat. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. pp. 59. ISBN 0226473740.
-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 22:32, 8 January 2013 (UTC) I've got a call in to speak with the editor of this book and was advised they would call me once the publisher can track them down. Since when we're comparing sources and mine aren't meeting spec for some odd reason (wonder why?) I'll simply go to the source material myself and point out the inaccuracies. Just because it's published doesn't make it fact based. When someone makes a good faith effort to see to it that facts are represented and this isn't a forum to further propaganda - I would think we would have a common interest in that. Like I wrote earlier...I'll advise. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 22:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
This isn't accurate - LFTB was approved for ground beef in 1993 by the USDA. LFTB was never used in dog food or cooking oil. Using Jamie Oliver a celebrity chef as a source isn't what I would consider reputable source material for such a statement. I've removed it and I offer these examples as to why it's inaccurate and this page shouldn't be forum to promote propaganda. USDA - http://www.meatami.com/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/76330 http://www.scribd.com/doc/105816180/13/The-USDA%E2%80%99s-1993-Approval-of-Lean-Finely-Textured-Beef http://www.wisconsinagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=697&yr=2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC) -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:07, 3 January 2013 (UTC) This was removed because it isn't accurate. Nothing in the above mentioned sentence is true. -- 50.95.87.3 ( talk) 15:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
BPI doesn't sell LFTB to grinders outside of the united states. Therefore, this information has nothing to do with Beef Products or LFTB. I've removed it for that reason. BPI voluntarily began testing for additional STEC's, or the BIG 6 as they're known in the industry because they choose to - not as a reaction to something in a country that they're beef isn't even consumed in. Please see below for verification. I will gladly point interested parties to more information pertaining to this if need. Thank you.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/07/bpi-initiates-testing-for-big-6-e-coli-strains/#.UOXAqeSHJ8E -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 17:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Now, two major American companies, Costco Wholesale and Beef Products Inc., have gotten tired of waiting for regulators to act. They are proceeding with their own plans to protect customers. Your reliable source
The devastating outbreak of illness in Europe this spring was caused by yet another rare form of E. coli, O104:H4, which investigators say was spread through tainted sprouts. What do sprouts have to do with BPI? It appears you're trying to insinuate that BPI caused the outbreak. The outbreak in Europe had nothing to do with BPI or its voluntary testing. Please don't parse words. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 19:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
The FDA has nothing to do with an E coli outbreak in Europe - no jurisdiction - no oversight. I'm not promoting and am only trying to have a fair and balanced article. Nothing more - noting less. It appears you have an agenda. E coli outbreaks in Europe don't belong in this article. You seem to be getting testy - no need for that...-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 20:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Well you should see someone about that. I tend to get testy as well, when I encounter people who can obviously write - but can't read. Strange dichotomy. I'm not looking to promote - I'm looking to prevent others a blank check to slander. I comprehend just fine. I didn't know you were in a position to be directing me to do anything.-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 20:53, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to jump in here and try to sort a few things out.
Here's a list of concerns about the article that we need to discuss. Feel free to edit this section and add something if you would like to discuss it. If I've included something that's not in contention, please let us know.
I'll start with the lawsuit. I personally feel that the lawsuit should been mentioned briefly with one or two sentences. There seems to be a case to be had so if ABC reported something that may not be true, that should be mentioned along with what ABC claimed. The product having been use for pet food and cooking oil was made by Harvey Levenstein. He's a "professor emeritus of history at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario" and the book he published this claim in Fear of food : a history of why we worry about what we eat, a book published by The University of Chicago Press. Using Google Books,
I have confirmed that this is stated in the book ( although I see it on page 59, not 55). Search the book for "pet food" if you're having trouble finding it. Chuck, if you are who I think you are, I value your expertise here when you say that this isn't true. Even if you aren't who I think you are, to support your claim, we would still need an independent and reliable source that refutes this claim. Do you have any reliable sources that say that it was never used in animal food and cooking oils?
So to be clear, I feel that both sides of the lawsuit should be mentioned briefly and the claim that the product was used in pet food and cooking oil should be included in the article. Does anyone have any reason why that should not be the case? OlYeller21 Talktome 18:47, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I was tied up my my apologize - I'll re-engage shortly. Thank you for putting this on your watch list and please continue to keep and open dialogue with me. Standby please -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC) 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC)-- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 15:42, 16 January 2013 (UTC) Please consider Meat Scientist (two sources) in a statement provided to FSN http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/how-will-bpis-plant-closures-affect-americas-beef/#.UPbY2B2Tl8E - “It disturbs me that the public will listen to the media over someone who does science and research in the area,” Acuff said. “A scientist doesn’t stand a chance against a celebrity news personality, as sad as that is.”
“We need to step up and be the clear-thinking, informed source of information — before it is too late,” they went on, calling on science-minded individuals in the food industry to speak up and defend the science behind LFTB.
“We are sick and tired of the news media hijacking the truth, minimizing science, frightening consumers and creating a false crisis, just to boost their ratings,” they wrote. ”Lean Fine-Textured Beef is not unsafe, deceptive or pet food.” Also, from someone with first hand knowledge of the process please consider Jeremy Russell's expert opinion on the statement in question. http://nmaonline.org/pdf/pr3_8_12.pdf OAKLAND, CA – ABC World News ran a story yesterday focused on the claims of two disgruntled scientists formerly with USDA. These men deride Lean Finely-Textured Beef (LFTB) as nothing but “pink slime.” However, there’s nothing that is scientific or factual about their claims. LFTB is produced using a technology developed and used by Beef Products, Inc. (BPI) to ensure improved safety of beef and beef trimmings. In fact, the company has been recognized by the USDA, consumer safety groups, and food protection organizations for its innovations in food safety, and its lean beef products have undergone rigorous and comprehensive testing. The raw material that the company uses is not scraps destined for pet food. It is Federally-inspected, high-quality beef trim. As agreed upon earlier I will refrain from removing inaccuracies myself, but will make suggestions for changes and support those suggestions with fact based data. Please review and advise. -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 16:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes I do, I would like additional input on a course of action here.Thank you -- 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 19:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
This article used to be half decent. Looks like someone trudged on through and mucked it up again. I give up. - Sweet Nightmares 01:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I haven't edited anything since I advised you that I would work through the talk page. Which I have done. Therefore, you haven't found the culprit. I'm not even sure what recent changes you're fired up about. I've done nothing but try and balance out fact with some peoples fiction. I can verify, backup and prove what I say - write - and cite. I only ask that others do the same. I saw this comment and thought I should respond. 66.172.199.26 ( talk) 21:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a newspaper -- the salient fact is that many chains stopped using a product, not the naming of specific chains where the list is not all inclusive -- thus we may improperly imply to readers that the ones not named still use the product. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 22:31, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Collect, deleting large sections of text unilaterally is uncalled for. The edits you made have not even been discussed here, so you can hardly claim consensus has been made. As for the separate topic, dealing with the removal of the names of BPI's former clients, there is also no consensus. As a matter of fact, even if there was, it would not be in your favor. I see further up in a discussion about neologisms you also get confused about the meaning of consensus; maybe this can be of some help to you. I'd like to point you specifically to the first bullet point under the "No consensus" heading: "In deletion discussions, no consensus normally results in the article, image, or other content being kept." Please refrain from making further changes until we get a few more voices. As this is not a time sensitive issue, I believe there is no need at present for a RfC; let feedback come in organically. - Sweet Nightmares 00:11, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
The page has been protected for 3 days so you can talk out your dispute. If the edit warring resumes when protection expires, you will both receive a block. -- Spike Wilbury ( talk) 01:06, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Should this article enumerate the companies which no longer use or never used the Beef Product "lean finely textured beef"? Collect ( talk)
I suggest that the list, which is not exhaustive, is better served by the word "many fast food chains" than a list of five specific companies, and the word "abandon" is less neutral than "cease selling" is. Collect ( talk) 01:37, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
Closed, as consensus appears to be unanimous in keeping the names of the chains who used to use the product. - Sweet Nightmares 16:26, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
Given there has been a lawsuit by BPI against ABC and there is likely to be a countersuit, should the lawsuit have it's own section, that way as the case winds around, it can be modified or redrafted with less difficulty then if it's in another section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patbahn ( talk • contribs) 23:57, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
there is a line that says "Journalists", it may be better to say "Journalists have reported concerns raised by Public Interest advocates such as Food and Water Watch or GAP Food Integrity "
Journalists aren't supposed to leap into stories, they are supposed to be a bit more neutral.--
Patbahn (
talk)
00:00, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
there is a line that says "Journalists", it may be better to say "Journalists have reported concerns raised by Public Interest advocates such as Food and Water Watch or GAP Food Integrity "
Journalists aren't supposed to leap into stories, they are supposed to be a bit more neutral.--
Patbahn (
talk)
00:00, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
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