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Let us be consistent with the rest of Wikipedia / most of the published literature and either consistently use a dash, or not use a dash. Similarly for T-cell or T cell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmcdougall ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Quote: "abbreviated "B" for the bursa of Fabricius, an organ uniqe to birds where B cells mature; the "B" does not stand for bone marrow, where they are created in all other vertebrates"
This is true to the history, but isn't there a will to redefine this, so that they can say "B is for bbone marrow" out in the schools? That it wasn't named after the bone marrow, does that have any significance? If people today say "B is for bone marrow" then thats is, right? The Immune system article does this, which I approve. —Sverdrup (talk) 21:48, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)
WRONG!
"B" DOES NOT stand for "Bone marrow". ALL blood cells originate from pluripotent stem cells in the bone marrow, including: erythrocytes (red blood cells), thrombocytes (platelets), granulocytes (basophils, eosinophils, neutrophils, and mast cells), monocytes (monocytes and macrophages) and lymphocytes (T-cells, B-cells, and natural killer cells). Thus it is entirely and utterly incorrect to assign the "B" in B-cells to "Bone marrow". Sverdup, you are misguided and should read up on your histopathology before making wrongheaded suggestions. I will now go and look at the "Immune system" article to see that it does not repeat your error.
However,
What a wonderful idea Wikepedia is! I never knew it existed. I am tempted to dump a whole lot of really useful stuff about B cells onto this page but I'm not sure how to go about it correctly. Oh well, when I get time .... Like (just for openers):
It is important to know that each and every B-cell (and there are many millions in the body at any one time) has a different antibody on its surface. Each B-cell is programmed to make one specific antibody. When a B cell encounters its triggering antigen (along with collaborating T-cells and accessory cells), it gives rise to many large plasma cells. Every plasma cell is essentially a factory for producing antibody. Each of the plasma cells descended from a given B-cell (which are all members of the same family, or clones) manufactures millions of identical antibody molecules and pours them into the bloodstream.
Maybe someone who can do it should add something like this in...?
"Your synopsis about covers it, but VDJ Recombination, Clonal Selection and Clonal Deletion do need to be covered." I think these should have their own page, Jfdwolff....perhaps with different titles... Dan 00:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
As an immunologist studying mammalian B cell development, I know that it is not common for us, or any immunologist that I have met, to mistake the B in B cell for meaning bone marrow.
I would like to raise a point about B lymphocyte development. I was under the impression that B lymphocytes required antigenic stimulation during their development. How then can the bone marrow be the 'bursa equivalent' in non-avian species. Bone marrow has no afferent lymphatics to bring antigens into contact with developing lymphocytes and in a healthy individual there should be no free antigens within the blood stream so the bone marrow cannot be the bursa equivalent. Also the lack of large aggregates of developing lymphocytes in histological sections of bone marrow that I have seen eliminates this as a major developmental sight of lymphocytes. A much more logical site for the bursa equivalent is in the nodules of lymphoid tissue within the appendix. This provides ample oppertunity for antigenic stimulation of developing B lymphocytes and unlike in bone marrow there are large populations of lymphocytes seen in histological sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/130.123.128.117 9 October 2006
I agree with your comment that the B in B-cell does not stand for Bone marrow. But it a historical fact that the term B-cell was first found in avian Bursa of Fabricius and there was no need to change the term when B-cells were found in mammals. I have reverted 90.201.67.114's deletion of the paragraph which now cites a reference. See also bursa of Fabricius. Greensburger 01:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
The second paragraph regarding the 2nd paragraph in "The Ancestry of B-cells" should be deleted, or a second reference should be cited.
The Nature Immunology 2006 paper referenced (Li et al) DOES NOT state that mammalian B-cells are capable of/activated following antigen phagocytosis. Trout and frogs are not mammals. MALIGNANT (not normal) mammalian B-lymphocytes acquire phagocytic capability, implying a common ancestry for APCs and B lymphocytes in mammals.
130.219.4.164 ( talk) 23:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)Anonymous Med Student
The first section on B cell formation basically just talks about antibody structure which although related, doesn't seem the right way or place in the aticle to discuss this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.252.133 ( talk) 10:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I was surprised to note that the very important concept of secondary response, wherein the encounters with a foreign antigen that follow the first exposure, are much more intense, does not find a mention almost in the whole of wikipedia. I'm sorry if I would have overlooked its presence, but I believe, I have searched quite well.
So, I am starting this section. Further supplementation with figures (graphs) will be greatly helpful.
Regards.
Ketan Panchal, MBBS ( talk) 13:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Please do tell me if B-1 cell and the naive cells are synonymous. This is important as I'd like to expand the article further to better explain the concept of clonality and immunologic memory See Talk:B cell#Secondary immune response above.
Hoping for a prompt reply.
Regards.
Ketan Panchal, MBBS ( talk) 16:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
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cite journal}}
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ignored (
help){{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help)
1) I'm wondering if the opening could be improved by swapping the first two sentences: explain the basic function of the B cell in a non-jargon description first, THEN make the comparison/contrast with T-cells.
2) I'm a bit baffled by the "B for Bone" statement. The cells were named for the Bursa in poultry. Feldercarb ( talk) 14:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
This is all explained in the section "Origin of the word B cell" near the bottom the B-cell article. Yes, B-cells were named after the bursa in poultry. And if mammals had been making B-cells in the liver, they would have been renamed L-cells. But when biologists discovered that mammalian B-cells were made in bone marrow, they had a choice, rename them M-cells, or just leave B-cells as B-cells. They chose the latter. This is not the only time that scientific terminology has benefitted from chance. The Celsus temperature scale used to be called the "centigrade scale" with degrees abbreviated °C. In 1948 there was an effort to memorialize Andres Celsius which gained wide acceptance partly because, by chance, Celsius's name began with the letter C. Likewise B-cell became a
backronym, redefined as being made in bones.
Greensburger (
talk) 18:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I suppose I am trying to say politely that I disagree with the "backronym" of B for Bone. It's as if you are trying to discredit the people who originally did the work. (In the Centigrade case, no one is discredited, and there was a general renaming/rescaling of units whilst moving from cgs metric to SI metric system ~ so I feel this is a rather poor analogy.) "Neon" is no longer a "new" element, but we haven't renamed it. "Chromosome" is a rather antique term, but nobody has changed it. Feldercarb ( talk) 18:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "backronym" sentence from the article. I was not implying that B-cell was formally redefined and was not trying to deprive the discoverers of B-cell the credit due them. I am simply saying that it does not matter whether people are referring to bursa B-cells or bone B-cells. B can stand for either one depending on context. Greensburger ( talk) 22:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
instead of "and it is this molecule that allows the distinction of B cells from other types of lymphocyte" can I say "and it is this molecule that distinguishes B cells from other types of lymphocyte" seems a little more direct
looking at phrase "The BCR is a membrane-bound immunoglobulin,"
looking at phrase "Each B cell has a unique receptor protein "
"cognate antigen"
76.64.176.92 ( talk) 16:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
arrangement of sections
opening paragraph
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.176.92 ( talk • contribs) 14:21, 14 June 2009
There is a picture here of a lymphocyte that seems to be circulating freely in the blood stream, wich is amrked as a plasma cell. I dont know if I missed something major in the literature, but arent plasma cells stationary in lymphnodes and diffuse lymphoid tissue (ie Malt, GALT, Tonsils, spleen). B-Cells mainly migrate from the lymph node in the form of plasmablasts aswell. I find it kind of misleading showing one in free circulation after this, and wonder if I misunderstood the literature or if the image should be replaced? Gremmer ( talk) 15:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
B-cells can be very cancerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.244.242.208 ( talk) 18:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
"these immature B cells migrate to the spleen, where they are called transitional B cells, and some of these cells differentiate into mature B lymphocytes" This is true in murine models but in humansit is more likely that mature naive B-cells are produced in the bone marrow (Perez-Andres M, Clinical Cytometry 2010) :
1) Fully mature Naive B-cells are detected in human bone marrow (Van Lochem Clinical Cytometry 2004) 2) B-cells undego negative selection (deletion of autoreactive B-cells) between the immature and the naive compartments. 3) Aesplenic individuals have normal numbers of fully mature Naive B-cells (Wasserstrom H, JI 2008)
I would recommend to review this section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.128.135.81 ( talk) 15:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
In the Introductory section, there is a clear distinction made between where B-cells develop in Mammals as opposed to Birds. But, the Development section talks exclusively about the maturation process in (mammalian) bone marrow. I don't know enough to know if there's any difference between what happens there and the development process in Birds. We need someone knowledgable on the subject to either add a separate discussion of the Avian process or make clear that there is no difference. --- NormDrez 24 July 2017
An image used in this article, File:Phagocytic B-cell NI.gif, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 29 August 2011
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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I have read from molecular biology text books that B-cell activation is Th2 mediated for neutralizing antibodies and Th1 mediated for complement fixing + opsonizing antibodies. If someone can provide reference to this, the paragraph "T-cell mediated activation" should be modified. Molbil ( talk) 16:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)Molbil
Just read this NY times article and was wondering if the material would be relevant for this article. For example: what would be the side effects of someone never having B cells the rest of their life, and is this potentially as bad or worse than leukemia? Ranze ( talk) 22:43, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
under Development, the following sentence is written: "While immature and during the T1 phase, B cells express BCR of class IgG, but BCR expression changes to the classes IgM and IgD after transition into the T2 phase and while mature up to activation."
The cited source does not show this, and I could not find any other source on this. Also, looking at the class switch mechanism which includes deletion of genetic regions, reversing from IgG to IgM/D is impossible. In my opinion, this is false information.
I am trying to go from zero to understanding the B cell and the seemingly infinitely complex immune system. So try not to confuse me!
Where do B cells mature? I see in the Development section:
"...immature B cells migrate from the bone marrow into the spleen...Once differentiated, they are now considered mature B cells..."
Whereas, in the Activation section, I see:
"After B cells mature in the bone marrow..."
Please - either point out where I am misinterpreting your statements or make a decision and correct the incorrect statement. Believe me, I don't need any help being confused!
Thank you for your time, Wordreader ( talk) 23:10, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Pre-B cell page were merged into B cell on 2014-09-09. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
|
Let us be consistent with the rest of Wikipedia / most of the published literature and either consistently use a dash, or not use a dash. Similarly for T-cell or T cell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmcdougall ( talk • contribs) 14:17, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Quote: "abbreviated "B" for the bursa of Fabricius, an organ uniqe to birds where B cells mature; the "B" does not stand for bone marrow, where they are created in all other vertebrates"
This is true to the history, but isn't there a will to redefine this, so that they can say "B is for bbone marrow" out in the schools? That it wasn't named after the bone marrow, does that have any significance? If people today say "B is for bone marrow" then thats is, right? The Immune system article does this, which I approve. —Sverdrup (talk) 21:48, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)
WRONG!
"B" DOES NOT stand for "Bone marrow". ALL blood cells originate from pluripotent stem cells in the bone marrow, including: erythrocytes (red blood cells), thrombocytes (platelets), granulocytes (basophils, eosinophils, neutrophils, and mast cells), monocytes (monocytes and macrophages) and lymphocytes (T-cells, B-cells, and natural killer cells). Thus it is entirely and utterly incorrect to assign the "B" in B-cells to "Bone marrow". Sverdup, you are misguided and should read up on your histopathology before making wrongheaded suggestions. I will now go and look at the "Immune system" article to see that it does not repeat your error.
However,
What a wonderful idea Wikepedia is! I never knew it existed. I am tempted to dump a whole lot of really useful stuff about B cells onto this page but I'm not sure how to go about it correctly. Oh well, when I get time .... Like (just for openers):
It is important to know that each and every B-cell (and there are many millions in the body at any one time) has a different antibody on its surface. Each B-cell is programmed to make one specific antibody. When a B cell encounters its triggering antigen (along with collaborating T-cells and accessory cells), it gives rise to many large plasma cells. Every plasma cell is essentially a factory for producing antibody. Each of the plasma cells descended from a given B-cell (which are all members of the same family, or clones) manufactures millions of identical antibody molecules and pours them into the bloodstream.
Maybe someone who can do it should add something like this in...?
"Your synopsis about covers it, but VDJ Recombination, Clonal Selection and Clonal Deletion do need to be covered." I think these should have their own page, Jfdwolff....perhaps with different titles... Dan 00:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
As an immunologist studying mammalian B cell development, I know that it is not common for us, or any immunologist that I have met, to mistake the B in B cell for meaning bone marrow.
I would like to raise a point about B lymphocyte development. I was under the impression that B lymphocytes required antigenic stimulation during their development. How then can the bone marrow be the 'bursa equivalent' in non-avian species. Bone marrow has no afferent lymphatics to bring antigens into contact with developing lymphocytes and in a healthy individual there should be no free antigens within the blood stream so the bone marrow cannot be the bursa equivalent. Also the lack of large aggregates of developing lymphocytes in histological sections of bone marrow that I have seen eliminates this as a major developmental sight of lymphocytes. A much more logical site for the bursa equivalent is in the nodules of lymphoid tissue within the appendix. This provides ample oppertunity for antigenic stimulation of developing B lymphocytes and unlike in bone marrow there are large populations of lymphocytes seen in histological sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/130.123.128.117 9 October 2006
I agree with your comment that the B in B-cell does not stand for Bone marrow. But it a historical fact that the term B-cell was first found in avian Bursa of Fabricius and there was no need to change the term when B-cells were found in mammals. I have reverted 90.201.67.114's deletion of the paragraph which now cites a reference. See also bursa of Fabricius. Greensburger 01:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
The second paragraph regarding the 2nd paragraph in "The Ancestry of B-cells" should be deleted, or a second reference should be cited.
The Nature Immunology 2006 paper referenced (Li et al) DOES NOT state that mammalian B-cells are capable of/activated following antigen phagocytosis. Trout and frogs are not mammals. MALIGNANT (not normal) mammalian B-lymphocytes acquire phagocytic capability, implying a common ancestry for APCs and B lymphocytes in mammals.
130.219.4.164 ( talk) 23:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)Anonymous Med Student
The first section on B cell formation basically just talks about antibody structure which although related, doesn't seem the right way or place in the aticle to discuss this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.252.133 ( talk) 10:05, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I was surprised to note that the very important concept of secondary response, wherein the encounters with a foreign antigen that follow the first exposure, are much more intense, does not find a mention almost in the whole of wikipedia. I'm sorry if I would have overlooked its presence, but I believe, I have searched quite well.
So, I am starting this section. Further supplementation with figures (graphs) will be greatly helpful.
Regards.
Ketan Panchal, MBBS ( talk) 13:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Please do tell me if B-1 cell and the naive cells are synonymous. This is important as I'd like to expand the article further to better explain the concept of clonality and immunologic memory See Talk:B cell#Secondary immune response above.
Hoping for a prompt reply.
Regards.
Ketan Panchal, MBBS ( talk) 16:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help){{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |month=
ignored (
help)
1) I'm wondering if the opening could be improved by swapping the first two sentences: explain the basic function of the B cell in a non-jargon description first, THEN make the comparison/contrast with T-cells.
2) I'm a bit baffled by the "B for Bone" statement. The cells were named for the Bursa in poultry. Feldercarb ( talk) 14:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
This is all explained in the section "Origin of the word B cell" near the bottom the B-cell article. Yes, B-cells were named after the bursa in poultry. And if mammals had been making B-cells in the liver, they would have been renamed L-cells. But when biologists discovered that mammalian B-cells were made in bone marrow, they had a choice, rename them M-cells, or just leave B-cells as B-cells. They chose the latter. This is not the only time that scientific terminology has benefitted from chance. The Celsus temperature scale used to be called the "centigrade scale" with degrees abbreviated °C. In 1948 there was an effort to memorialize Andres Celsius which gained wide acceptance partly because, by chance, Celsius's name began with the letter C. Likewise B-cell became a
backronym, redefined as being made in bones.
Greensburger (
talk) 18:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I suppose I am trying to say politely that I disagree with the "backronym" of B for Bone. It's as if you are trying to discredit the people who originally did the work. (In the Centigrade case, no one is discredited, and there was a general renaming/rescaling of units whilst moving from cgs metric to SI metric system ~ so I feel this is a rather poor analogy.) "Neon" is no longer a "new" element, but we haven't renamed it. "Chromosome" is a rather antique term, but nobody has changed it. Feldercarb ( talk) 18:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the "backronym" sentence from the article. I was not implying that B-cell was formally redefined and was not trying to deprive the discoverers of B-cell the credit due them. I am simply saying that it does not matter whether people are referring to bursa B-cells or bone B-cells. B can stand for either one depending on context. Greensburger ( talk) 22:15, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
instead of "and it is this molecule that allows the distinction of B cells from other types of lymphocyte" can I say "and it is this molecule that distinguishes B cells from other types of lymphocyte" seems a little more direct
looking at phrase "The BCR is a membrane-bound immunoglobulin,"
looking at phrase "Each B cell has a unique receptor protein "
"cognate antigen"
76.64.176.92 ( talk) 16:21, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
arrangement of sections
opening paragraph
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.176.92 ( talk • contribs) 14:21, 14 June 2009
There is a picture here of a lymphocyte that seems to be circulating freely in the blood stream, wich is amrked as a plasma cell. I dont know if I missed something major in the literature, but arent plasma cells stationary in lymphnodes and diffuse lymphoid tissue (ie Malt, GALT, Tonsils, spleen). B-Cells mainly migrate from the lymph node in the form of plasmablasts aswell. I find it kind of misleading showing one in free circulation after this, and wonder if I misunderstood the literature or if the image should be replaced? Gremmer ( talk) 15:18, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
B-cells can be very cancerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.244.242.208 ( talk) 18:10, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
"these immature B cells migrate to the spleen, where they are called transitional B cells, and some of these cells differentiate into mature B lymphocytes" This is true in murine models but in humansit is more likely that mature naive B-cells are produced in the bone marrow (Perez-Andres M, Clinical Cytometry 2010) :
1) Fully mature Naive B-cells are detected in human bone marrow (Van Lochem Clinical Cytometry 2004) 2) B-cells undego negative selection (deletion of autoreactive B-cells) between the immature and the naive compartments. 3) Aesplenic individuals have normal numbers of fully mature Naive B-cells (Wasserstrom H, JI 2008)
I would recommend to review this section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.128.135.81 ( talk) 15:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
In the Introductory section, there is a clear distinction made between where B-cells develop in Mammals as opposed to Birds. But, the Development section talks exclusively about the maturation process in (mammalian) bone marrow. I don't know enough to know if there's any difference between what happens there and the development process in Birds. We need someone knowledgable on the subject to either add a separate discussion of the Avian process or make clear that there is no difference. --- NormDrez 24 July 2017
An image used in this article, File:Phagocytic B-cell NI.gif, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 29 August 2011
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 02:08, 29 August 2011 (UTC) |
I have read from molecular biology text books that B-cell activation is Th2 mediated for neutralizing antibodies and Th1 mediated for complement fixing + opsonizing antibodies. If someone can provide reference to this, the paragraph "T-cell mediated activation" should be modified. Molbil ( talk) 16:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)Molbil
Just read this NY times article and was wondering if the material would be relevant for this article. For example: what would be the side effects of someone never having B cells the rest of their life, and is this potentially as bad or worse than leukemia? Ranze ( talk) 22:43, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
under Development, the following sentence is written: "While immature and during the T1 phase, B cells express BCR of class IgG, but BCR expression changes to the classes IgM and IgD after transition into the T2 phase and while mature up to activation."
The cited source does not show this, and I could not find any other source on this. Also, looking at the class switch mechanism which includes deletion of genetic regions, reversing from IgG to IgM/D is impossible. In my opinion, this is false information.
I am trying to go from zero to understanding the B cell and the seemingly infinitely complex immune system. So try not to confuse me!
Where do B cells mature? I see in the Development section:
"...immature B cells migrate from the bone marrow into the spleen...Once differentiated, they are now considered mature B cells..."
Whereas, in the Activation section, I see:
"After B cells mature in the bone marrow..."
Please - either point out where I am misinterpreting your statements or make a decision and correct the incorrect statement. Believe me, I don't need any help being confused!
Thank you for your time, Wordreader ( talk) 23:10, 10 February 2020 (UTC)