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Axis powers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is country X included in the list of Axis countries in the infobox?
A1: Because reliable sources, cited in the article, describe it as an Axis country. If you think that a country presently included in this list should NOT be included in it, please describe why reliable sources do not support it being included here, and if possible provide sources backing up this position. Particularly in the case of Finland, this has been discussed many, many times, so please review the talk-page archive to see if you have any new points to raise on this topic. Q2: Why is country X NOT included in the list of Axis countries included in the infobox?
A2: Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included. If you think a country should be added to the list, please provide reliable sources that clearly and unambiguously state that they were members of the Axis. Please note that particularly Vichy France, Iraq, Spain, the Soviet Union, and the various puppet-states of the Axis outside of the ones that are included in this list have been discussed a large number of times here, so please review the discussions before opening a new discussion to see if the point you want to make has already been discussed. Q3: Why aren't only Tripartite Pact signatories included as Axis members in the infobox?
A3: Because this article is not about the
Tripartite Pact, which has its own article. Similarly, it is also not about the
Anti-Comintern Pact. Instead it is about the Axis, which reliable sources describe as having a membership different to that of the Tripartite Pact and the Anti-Comintern Pact. Q4: Why aren't puppet states and colonies included as Axis members in the infobox?
A4: Some puppet states may be included as members of the Axis powers where there are reliable sources stating that this is what they were, however, where no source says that a country was a member of the Axis, simply having been a puppet state or colony of a member of the Axis is insufficient to make it a member of the Axis if reliable sources do not describe it as such. Q5: Why are other states, that were not members of the Axis, discussed in the body-text of the article?
A5: States and movements that had notable relations with the Axis, for example states the leadership of which gave serious consideration to joining the Axis, should be discussed to the extent relevant. Relevance should be decided in consensus with other editors - if in doubt, please discuss on the talk page here. Q6: Why was membership of the Axis, as listed in the infobox, decided to only include those clearly and unambiguously described as being members of the Axis in reliable sources?
A6: In
a discussion on the talk page in January 2021 it was decided to remove all countries which no reliable sources clearly described as being a member of the Axis. The reasoning was that by including countries that no reliable source actually identified as Axis powers but which some editors had characterised as "Axis co-belligerents", a term with no basis in reliable sources, we were essentially engaging in
original research and going outside the topic of the article, which is about the Axis powers and not about wars fought parallel to the wars fought by the Axis. Q7: I disagree with the criteria used to determine what should be included as a member of the Axis in this article!
A7:
Consensus can change, please feel free to open a discussion here about how you think the article should address the question of which states should be included as members of the Axis in this article. Please also review the prior discussions in the archive to see whether your proposed way of deciding Axis membership has already been discussed. |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been
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Should we add the Italian Social Republic to the Major Axis Powers? Because Mussolini also led that. 2600:1700:3680:8B70:9D75:3671:1435:D6B8 ( talk) 01:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. /info/en/?search=Anglo-Iraqi_War /info/en/?search=1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 ( talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
"Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included."As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 ( talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:
212.243.68.210 ( talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Iraq was an axis state in 1941 and fought alongside german forces against invading british troops 78.170.227.224 ( talk) 00:56, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi... actually I have a request for adding more things about Iran like the relations with Germany like meeting of Hassan esfandiyari[Iran's parliament] and Adolf Hitler or stopping Allies by Reza shah for some years[he doesn't accept UK and US to use railways and help Soviet Union with gun , etc. ] , north - east Iran's railways by hitler , Hitler's promises to Reza Shah about industrialized Iran , etc. with this thing we can say Iran was an Axis but in behind the scene Darked.Mind ( talk) 19:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
"In modern term, however, the Axis was mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."
Recommend change to
"In modern terms, however, the Axis has mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."
if the sentence is even worth keeping. StrongLilSteven ( talk) 16:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need sources to describe a country positively as having been one of the Axis powers, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.
The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:
I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. FOARP ( talk) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. Slatersteven ( talk) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Axis powers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is country X included in the list of Axis countries in the infobox?
A1: Because reliable sources, cited in the article, describe it as an Axis country. If you think that a country presently included in this list should NOT be included in it, please describe why reliable sources do not support it being included here, and if possible provide sources backing up this position. Particularly in the case of Finland, this has been discussed many, many times, so please review the talk-page archive to see if you have any new points to raise on this topic. Q2: Why is country X NOT included in the list of Axis countries included in the infobox?
A2: Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included. If you think a country should be added to the list, please provide reliable sources that clearly and unambiguously state that they were members of the Axis. Please note that particularly Vichy France, Iraq, Spain, the Soviet Union, and the various puppet-states of the Axis outside of the ones that are included in this list have been discussed a large number of times here, so please review the discussions before opening a new discussion to see if the point you want to make has already been discussed. Q3: Why aren't only Tripartite Pact signatories included as Axis members in the infobox?
A3: Because this article is not about the
Tripartite Pact, which has its own article. Similarly, it is also not about the
Anti-Comintern Pact. Instead it is about the Axis, which reliable sources describe as having a membership different to that of the Tripartite Pact and the Anti-Comintern Pact. Q4: Why aren't puppet states and colonies included as Axis members in the infobox?
A4: Some puppet states may be included as members of the Axis powers where there are reliable sources stating that this is what they were, however, where no source says that a country was a member of the Axis, simply having been a puppet state or colony of a member of the Axis is insufficient to make it a member of the Axis if reliable sources do not describe it as such. Q5: Why are other states, that were not members of the Axis, discussed in the body-text of the article?
A5: States and movements that had notable relations with the Axis, for example states the leadership of which gave serious consideration to joining the Axis, should be discussed to the extent relevant. Relevance should be decided in consensus with other editors - if in doubt, please discuss on the talk page here. Q6: Why was membership of the Axis, as listed in the infobox, decided to only include those clearly and unambiguously described as being members of the Axis in reliable sources?
A6: In
a discussion on the talk page in January 2021 it was decided to remove all countries which no reliable sources clearly described as being a member of the Axis. The reasoning was that by including countries that no reliable source actually identified as Axis powers but which some editors had characterised as "Axis co-belligerents", a term with no basis in reliable sources, we were essentially engaging in
original research and going outside the topic of the article, which is about the Axis powers and not about wars fought parallel to the wars fought by the Axis. Q7: I disagree with the criteria used to determine what should be included as a member of the Axis in this article!
A7:
Consensus can change, please feel free to open a discussion here about how you think the article should address the question of which states should be included as members of the Axis in this article. Please also review the prior discussions in the archive to see whether your proposed way of deciding Axis membership has already been discussed. |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Should we add the Italian Social Republic to the Major Axis Powers? Because Mussolini also led that. 2600:1700:3680:8B70:9D75:3671:1435:D6B8 ( talk) 01:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. /info/en/?search=Anglo-Iraqi_War /info/en/?search=1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 ( talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
"Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included."As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 ( talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:
212.243.68.210 ( talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Iraq was an axis state in 1941 and fought alongside german forces against invading british troops 78.170.227.224 ( talk) 00:56, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi... actually I have a request for adding more things about Iran like the relations with Germany like meeting of Hassan esfandiyari[Iran's parliament] and Adolf Hitler or stopping Allies by Reza shah for some years[he doesn't accept UK and US to use railways and help Soviet Union with gun , etc. ] , north - east Iran's railways by hitler , Hitler's promises to Reza Shah about industrialized Iran , etc. with this thing we can say Iran was an Axis but in behind the scene Darked.Mind ( talk) 19:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
"In modern term, however, the Axis was mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."
Recommend change to
"In modern terms, however, the Axis has mostly referred to Germany and Japan, due to Italy's poor performance in the war."
if the sentence is even worth keeping. StrongLilSteven ( talk) 16:51, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
There was an extensive discussion about why the infobox only included actual members of the Axis. It's now been changed back to its previous format without any discussion as far as I can see. This is not a Paradox game or online games forum like NationStates, we need sources to describe a country positively as having been one of the Axis powers, not whatever idea someone has just come up with on their own about what the Axis was.
The second world war is almost certainly the most written-about subject in world history. If you cannot find a source explicitly stating that a country was one of the Axis powers (or similar language) then please consider that it may not have been an Axis power, and that your idea of what the Axis powers were does not match what reliable sources say about it. It is, in fact, not easy to find reliable sources that list the members of the Axis beyond Germany, Japan, and Italy, and NONE of the sources we've reviewed so far that do try to provide exhaustive lists of Axis members include the countries that people typically want to add to the infobox - they don't include Vichy France, they don't include the USSR, they don't include Iraq, they don't include Iran, they don't include Manchuria. However, they DO typically include Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, and Romania, and (less often) Croatia, Slovakia Thailand. You can review the sources that list Axis powers in the article, but the convenience of anyone reading this page, here's the main ones:
I could understand someone, based on the Bowman reference, wanting to add Albania, but since this does not match what other sources say about Albania in WW2 I'm inclined not to. Similarly I could understand someone wanting to remove Thailand since only Bowman includes in their list, though other sources appear to support this (see the sources in the section about Thailand, including the Thai historical dictionary). I can even understand just limiting the Axis to Germany, Italy, and Japan since many books/articles do only talk about those countries as "the Axis". What I can't understand is constantly trying to add Iraq/Vichy/USSR/whatever without any sources at all. FOARP ( talk) 09:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Albania was invaded and occupied, Thailand was not. Slatersteven ( talk) 11:32, 12 July 2024 (UTC)