This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Audrey Truschke article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 20 May 2021. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
1 (providing TWL link for better accessibility) - By R. Mahalakshmi of JNU. An excellent review from multiple aspects. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:24, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the sources used in the section detailing her "targetting" cite a critical piece published on Newslaundry, which can hardly be described as a plateform of the Hindu right. While many sources do note she has been criticised by the Hindu right, it would not be correct to claim or imply that all criticism has been rightist. The first citation to the Scroll piece which details the students' petetion, does not use the word "right wing" even once. This should be rectified. 59.90.60.94 ( talk) 21:14, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Truschke has been accused of having prejudiced views on Hinduism, making offensive statements and has been a frequent target of harassment by right-wing Hindu nationalists.
It is this very premise, however, that is flawed (or falsified) as Girish Shahane pointed out in a critique published in Scroll: "The problem with the actions specified above is not just that they seem abhorrent to modern individuals, but that they undercut the liberal policies of previous Mughal rulers, something Truschke herself admits. Bringing up modern morality is a red herring, because the namazi, as his eldest brother Dara Shikoh contemptuously called him, was a bigot not just by our standards but by those of his predecessors and peers." [/br] Instead of responding with reasoned argument, Truschke trotted out a litany of the "mean tweets" and hate mail she has received. While these can be harsh, they are in no way a licence to tar all critics with the same brush. [/br] I too have been subjected to threats when I published a series of trenchant articles critical of Hindutva politics, but I would be wary of using the toxic utterances of Internet trolls to deflect from genuine shortcomings in my work or, worse, label everyone who disagreed with me as an irredeemable bigot.
Arguably, Israel is such a case, and some Jewish groups outside Israel have deployed the charge of anti-semitism to deflect legitimate criticism of the state’s policies towards Palestinians and its treatment of its own Muslim citizens. Similar tactics are being employed against academics by pro-Hindutva groups in the Indian diaspora. For example, Audrey Truschke, a historian at Rutgers specialising in the Mughal period of Indian history, is one of the parties being sued for defamation by the Hindu American Foundation (HAF), a group that claims to be neutral and non-partisan, but is clearly aligned with Hindutva nationalism
— Sikka, S. (2022), Indian Islamophobia as Racism. The Political Quarterly, 93: 469-477. https://doi.org/10.1111/1467-923X.13152
The statement came after some students of the Hindu community expressed concern about the views expressed by Truschke, who is an associate professor of history at Rutgers University, alleging that the historian taught students that “Hinduism is inherently oppressive, racist, misogynistic and violent”.Note that this is not an op-ed. I believe this assessment by the sources should be respected and the whole thing placed under a controversy section, along with the reception of Aurangzeb (since there too the academic controversy and accusations of hatred and denial are separate from any "targetting"); while the social media messages and perhaps the litigation can go under the targetting section. The social media section above can be folded into the controversy section. This is the most rational structure given the sources and the best practices I have seen here. 117.194.200.183 ( talk) 17:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
The two missions are reconcilable: students can be safe and supported in their identities and intellectually challenged at the same time. We insist that a critical examination of Hindutva, a political ideology, is not the same thing as Hinduphobia. Dr. Truschke’s critique of the former rests on its majoritarian expression in India, in ways that threaten the safety, security, and equality of Muslims and other minorities. Her public scholarship resists the use of history and religious texts to accomplish those ends. This pursuit points to a desire to uphold the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion. We have every confidence in Dr. Truschke’s respect for Hindus and Hinduism and its compatibility with a critique of Hindu nationalism as a social and political enterprise.
— Who's who of S. Asian academia
strongly sourced descriptions of the vast majority of the criticism. Yeah, I think that claim is untrue, or at least presently unsubstantiated. The current version masterfully says she was accused of genocidal whitewashing and trolled by the Hindu right, only alluding to the fact that it wasn't just the Hindu right accusing her of whitewashing the genocidal tendencies of Aurangzeb. And then the strong sourcing in the students petetion consists of a Wire article calling the students right wing, with a letter from her colleagues basically denying accusations of Hinduphobia without commenting on the nature of the accusations or the accusers themselves, against the Scroll and the Hindu articles which neutrally cover the petitions without labelling them. The nature of these two to me seems very much like the "translation controversy", but they're instead clubbed with the litigation from the HAF and some complaints of hate mail. That is irrational. 157.35.84.145 ( talk) 19:10, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Truschke’s short biography on Aurangzeb blew up in the faces of right-wing extremists last year because of its scholarly, albeit humanising, account of the Mughal emperor and his importance in 17th century politics.
— Vice ref
Aurangzeb isn’t Truschke’s only foray into shaping debate around Mughal India. She has a regular presence on social media, where she patiently rebuts the trolls, making her somewhat of a hate figure for India’s Hindutva wing on social media.
— Scroll.in
[Truschke] also has often come under attack from right wing trolls on Twitter for her controversial statements on Indian culture and history backed with historical evidences.
— New Indian Express
it wasn't just the Hindu right accusing her of whitewashing the genocidal tendencies of Aurangzeb. If you are using op-eds, please use someone with a demonstrated expertise in S. Asian history. TrangaBellam ( talk) 19:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
HAF is right-wing Hindu? Really? According to who? Academics who are not open to criticism and label anyone who diagrees "right-wing" to undermine their stance? HAF has pushed progressive issues like LGBTQ rights and economic equality. But Wiki administration is locked in its biases.
There is also no mention in this article that "The court further stated that "some of Truschke's statements are arguably verifiably false... The court further noted that Viswanath's claim that HAF has "parent organisations" in India is plausibly verifiably false."
HAF's case didn't meet the standards for defamation in the US - that is a technicality. That doesn't mean that Wiki leaves out important parts of the verdict that clearly state that Truschke and Viswanathanade false claims. Liberalvedantin ( talk) 07:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Please consult previous t/p discussions. TrangaBellam ( talk) 08:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
This is a very detail critique of AD. Why no mention of it?
https://www.thehindu.com/society/history-and-culture/the-curious-case-of-controversial-historian-audrey-truschke/article34050315.ece van Lustig ( talk) 06:26, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Truschke was promoted to full professor in 2023. She's listed as "professor" on the Rutgers website, and the promotion is noted on her curriculum vitae. Request to update to this in the relevant sections (Lead, Education and Career and box). https://sasn.rutgers.edu/audrey-truschke and https://www.audreytruschke.com/s/Truschke-CV-May-2024.pdf @ TrangaBellam Newbie3144 ( talk) 19:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC) @ Kautilya3
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Audrey Truschke article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 20 May 2021. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
1 (providing TWL link for better accessibility) - By R. Mahalakshmi of JNU. An excellent review from multiple aspects. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:24, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One of the sources used in the section detailing her "targetting" cite a critical piece published on Newslaundry, which can hardly be described as a plateform of the Hindu right. While many sources do note she has been criticised by the Hindu right, it would not be correct to claim or imply that all criticism has been rightist. The first citation to the Scroll piece which details the students' petetion, does not use the word "right wing" even once. This should be rectified. 59.90.60.94 ( talk) 21:14, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Truschke has been accused of having prejudiced views on Hinduism, making offensive statements and has been a frequent target of harassment by right-wing Hindu nationalists.
It is this very premise, however, that is flawed (or falsified) as Girish Shahane pointed out in a critique published in Scroll: "The problem with the actions specified above is not just that they seem abhorrent to modern individuals, but that they undercut the liberal policies of previous Mughal rulers, something Truschke herself admits. Bringing up modern morality is a red herring, because the namazi, as his eldest brother Dara Shikoh contemptuously called him, was a bigot not just by our standards but by those of his predecessors and peers." [/br] Instead of responding with reasoned argument, Truschke trotted out a litany of the "mean tweets" and hate mail she has received. While these can be harsh, they are in no way a licence to tar all critics with the same brush. [/br] I too have been subjected to threats when I published a series of trenchant articles critical of Hindutva politics, but I would be wary of using the toxic utterances of Internet trolls to deflect from genuine shortcomings in my work or, worse, label everyone who disagreed with me as an irredeemable bigot.
Arguably, Israel is such a case, and some Jewish groups outside Israel have deployed the charge of anti-semitism to deflect legitimate criticism of the state’s policies towards Palestinians and its treatment of its own Muslim citizens. Similar tactics are being employed against academics by pro-Hindutva groups in the Indian diaspora. For example, Audrey Truschke, a historian at Rutgers specialising in the Mughal period of Indian history, is one of the parties being sued for defamation by the Hindu American Foundation (HAF), a group that claims to be neutral and non-partisan, but is clearly aligned with Hindutva nationalism
— Sikka, S. (2022), Indian Islamophobia as Racism. The Political Quarterly, 93: 469-477. https://doi.org/10.1111/1467-923X.13152
The statement came after some students of the Hindu community expressed concern about the views expressed by Truschke, who is an associate professor of history at Rutgers University, alleging that the historian taught students that “Hinduism is inherently oppressive, racist, misogynistic and violent”.Note that this is not an op-ed. I believe this assessment by the sources should be respected and the whole thing placed under a controversy section, along with the reception of Aurangzeb (since there too the academic controversy and accusations of hatred and denial are separate from any "targetting"); while the social media messages and perhaps the litigation can go under the targetting section. The social media section above can be folded into the controversy section. This is the most rational structure given the sources and the best practices I have seen here. 117.194.200.183 ( talk) 17:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
The two missions are reconcilable: students can be safe and supported in their identities and intellectually challenged at the same time. We insist that a critical examination of Hindutva, a political ideology, is not the same thing as Hinduphobia. Dr. Truschke’s critique of the former rests on its majoritarian expression in India, in ways that threaten the safety, security, and equality of Muslims and other minorities. Her public scholarship resists the use of history and religious texts to accomplish those ends. This pursuit points to a desire to uphold the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion. We have every confidence in Dr. Truschke’s respect for Hindus and Hinduism and its compatibility with a critique of Hindu nationalism as a social and political enterprise.
— Who's who of S. Asian academia
strongly sourced descriptions of the vast majority of the criticism. Yeah, I think that claim is untrue, or at least presently unsubstantiated. The current version masterfully says she was accused of genocidal whitewashing and trolled by the Hindu right, only alluding to the fact that it wasn't just the Hindu right accusing her of whitewashing the genocidal tendencies of Aurangzeb. And then the strong sourcing in the students petetion consists of a Wire article calling the students right wing, with a letter from her colleagues basically denying accusations of Hinduphobia without commenting on the nature of the accusations or the accusers themselves, against the Scroll and the Hindu articles which neutrally cover the petitions without labelling them. The nature of these two to me seems very much like the "translation controversy", but they're instead clubbed with the litigation from the HAF and some complaints of hate mail. That is irrational. 157.35.84.145 ( talk) 19:10, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Truschke’s short biography on Aurangzeb blew up in the faces of right-wing extremists last year because of its scholarly, albeit humanising, account of the Mughal emperor and his importance in 17th century politics.
— Vice ref
Aurangzeb isn’t Truschke’s only foray into shaping debate around Mughal India. She has a regular presence on social media, where she patiently rebuts the trolls, making her somewhat of a hate figure for India’s Hindutva wing on social media.
— Scroll.in
[Truschke] also has often come under attack from right wing trolls on Twitter for her controversial statements on Indian culture and history backed with historical evidences.
— New Indian Express
it wasn't just the Hindu right accusing her of whitewashing the genocidal tendencies of Aurangzeb. If you are using op-eds, please use someone with a demonstrated expertise in S. Asian history. TrangaBellam ( talk) 19:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
HAF is right-wing Hindu? Really? According to who? Academics who are not open to criticism and label anyone who diagrees "right-wing" to undermine their stance? HAF has pushed progressive issues like LGBTQ rights and economic equality. But Wiki administration is locked in its biases.
There is also no mention in this article that "The court further stated that "some of Truschke's statements are arguably verifiably false... The court further noted that Viswanath's claim that HAF has "parent organisations" in India is plausibly verifiably false."
HAF's case didn't meet the standards for defamation in the US - that is a technicality. That doesn't mean that Wiki leaves out important parts of the verdict that clearly state that Truschke and Viswanathanade false claims. Liberalvedantin ( talk) 07:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Please consult previous t/p discussions. TrangaBellam ( talk) 08:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
This is a very detail critique of AD. Why no mention of it?
https://www.thehindu.com/society/history-and-culture/the-curious-case-of-controversial-historian-audrey-truschke/article34050315.ece van Lustig ( talk) 06:26, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Truschke was promoted to full professor in 2023. She's listed as "professor" on the Rutgers website, and the promotion is noted on her curriculum vitae. Request to update to this in the relevant sections (Lead, Education and Career and box). https://sasn.rutgers.edu/audrey-truschke and https://www.audreytruschke.com/s/Truschke-CV-May-2024.pdf @ TrangaBellam Newbie3144 ( talk) 19:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC) @ Kautilya3