This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
It's name was Atropatene or Atropatgan. During centuries it has been converted to "Aazarbaaygaan" as the word aatro converted to aazar in various other combinations. By the conquest of Arabs, since they couldn't pronounce "gaf" it became Aazarbaaijan. So it seems by the arrival of Turkic tribes the name have not undergone any other changes. Please verify this by encyclopedia iranica or encyclopedia britanica or the encyclopedia of Columbia university. Also Ahmad Kasrvi has explained similar evolution.
Hello. Before you can add an image, you must upload it first. Make sure its not copy righted. For now, I have undone your edits because the image you tried to put in was non-existent. Hajji Piruz 14:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Please, provide verifiable reference that Atropatena was geographically extending to present-day Iranian Kurdistan. The reference about connection to Iranian Azerbaijan is added to the page. Thanks. Atabəy ( talk) 22:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Please do not add modern language names (modern Persian, Azeri, Kurdish, Armenian or etc) to the intro. Obviously Old Persian/Avesta or something is fine. That is typical wikipedia rule. We cannot list the name of Atropatene in every relevant language of the region:Talysh,Tat, Persian, Kurdish, Azeri, Armenian and etc. This is senseless nationalism and I will report the next person that does it to dbachmann. -- Khodabandeh14 ( talk) 15:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
In the 'History' section I noticed several references to 'Media'. Given that the acnient people of Persia were once known as "Medes", should this not be 'Medea'? 131.81.200.92 ( talk) 15:25, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
HistoryofIran, you cannot possibly expect me to agree with someone's edit just because they say "Atropatene has nothing to do with Azerbaijan - period", which is obviously a biased approach. The Mayan Empire may have nothing to do with Azerbaijan, but when it comes to Atropatene, the word nothing is inapplicable.
Atropatene was not an Empire that ruled lands remotely related to the metropoly, so your reference to the Sassanid Empire is irrelevant. It was a centralised state, a third of which was located in what is now Azerbaijan.
Bad argument, the Sasanian Empire is just an example of many other articles in Wikipedia. And please read the rules, you don't create a talk section and then directly after revert the edit of a user without having reached an agreement with him/her. So therefor I am reverting the edit to what it was until we have reached an agreement. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 11:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Actually it did not, but nice try. Furthermore, WP:BRD means that you discuss first, before reverting. I don't see why it isn't valid - the Sasanian Empire was just an example, do you want me to write more examples then? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 11:38, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
You can't just simply say "i don't care" just because my argument is right. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 13:24, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Sigh.. let me repeat myself in another way: Why it does not belong here? well because it is irrelevant. Plus the Atropatenean kingdom only controlled a small part of the present-day country Azerbaijan. Furthermore, I don't see why I can't use the Sasanian Empire/other articles as an example, since it fits perfectly in this situation. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Ha ha, very funny. Don't act like you didn't knew what I mean't. The Atropatenean Kingdom controlled only a little pit of land of present-day Azerbaijan, compared to the major chunk of present-day northern Iran it controlled. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 12:26, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Sigh... that's not what i meant. The land which Atropatene ruled in Iran is much larger than it ruled in Azerbaijan, which is a little bit of land. I couldn't care less how much % of the country it ruled over, since Iran is a massive country which Azerbaijan isn't. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 14:22, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Don't make me laugh, just because you don't like my argument doesn't mean that it is not a "real argument". -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
As it has been agreed that Atropatene did in fact simultaneously rule in what is now the country of Azerbaijan and Iran, it is obvious that in this respect amongst others that it is part of the history of the country of Azerbaijan and thus the template deserves to be in this article. Mugsalot ( talk) 19:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Strabo (64/63 BC-23 AD): Cites the people of Iranian Azerbaijan (known as Media Atropatene at the time of Strabo) as Iranians and with Persian as their language [v] . The “Persian” cited by Strabo would have most likely been of the Parthian Pahlavi variety at the time. Arrian (92-c. 175 AD): The region north of the Araxes River is cited as “Albania” and south of the Araxes as “Media Atropatene”. The Hodud-ol-Alam Text (10th century AD): Cites the Araxes River as the northern limit of Azerbaijan. Ibn-Hawqal: Cites the Araxes River as the southern limit of Arran. Al-Muqaddasi (10th Century AD): Divided Persia into eight regions which include both Azerbaijan and Arran. Defines Arran as being situated between the Caspian Sea and the Araxes River. Yaqut Al-Hamavi (13th Century AD): Defines Arran and Azerbaijan as distinct territories with the Araxes River forming the boundary between them. Arran defined as north and west of the Araxes, with Azerbaijan to the south of the River. Borhan-e-Qate (Completed 1632 AD): Aras (Araxes) defined as a river flowing past Tbilisi in Georgia and forming the boundary between Arran and Azerbaijan.
As you can see, Atropatene was separated from Caucasian Albania, which has nothing to do with the modern Azerbaijan. Why dont we add the history of Azerbaijan to the Caucasian Albanian page as well? And with your statement about Atropatene covered a quarter of modern Azerbaijan, Armenia covered parts of modern Azerbaijan and Turkey, should we add History of Armenia to both Azerbaijan and Turkey? Ninetoyadome ( talk) 16:42, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Quote from Bartold, Soviet academic, politician and foreign office official. See Bartold, V.V., Sochineniia, Tom II, Chast I, Izdatelstvo Vostochnoi Literary, p.217, 1963.
The language of Atropatene or the location of Caucasian Albania has nothing to do with Atropatene being part of Azerbaijani history. In addition, Azerbaijan happens to possess territories to the south of the Aras River (everything to the south of Sabirabad; take a look at any map), and that territory constitutes about 15% of Azerbaijan. Parishan ( talk) 21:01, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
The map of Atropatene is a heavily edited map added by a user, without providing documentation to back it up. I suggest it to be removed from this article. MikeEcho ( talk) 08:55, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Atropatene. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:40, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
The recent edits by an editor who changes the flags seem quite odd, since Atropatene has nothing to do with modern Azerbaijani Republic. I would suggest everyone to come here and discuss the matter instead of edit-warring. Thanks.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:22, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The area of Atropatene which includes what is now the "Azerbaijan" Republic is so small that it's not necessary to include it, if anyone disagrees please discuss it. Migboy123 ( talk) 09:29, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Atropatene be
renamed and moved to
Media Atropatene.
decision: Links:
current log •
target log
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
It seems that usage of simply "Atropatene" ( Adurbadagan) first appears with the advent of the Sasanians, per the sources;
This is the most interesting one:
The rest:
...and more, but I guess this should be enough evidence. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:57, 17 November 2019 (UTC) —Relisted. P. I. Ellsworth, ed. put'r there 08:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
Hello! I've made a better version of the current map used in the article. I'd be happy if everyone gave their feedback on it and if it would be appropriate to implement it as the new lead map. — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 00:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: Oh, thanks for pointing it out, I've fixed it now. And yes, it's Atropatene as part of Seleucids. Also, I have one question, are there any other cities in or around Atropatene of those times you know that I should add? Feel like some areas are quite empty (like around Gilan and Ecbatana). — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 15:29, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
It's still not OK. The filename and description are misleading/confusing (MedianAtropatene). They should be fixed too. Proper name should be Atropatene or Media Atropatene. Ask an admin to rename and move it. -- Wario-Man ( talk) 05:23, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
It's name was Atropatene or Atropatgan. During centuries it has been converted to "Aazarbaaygaan" as the word aatro converted to aazar in various other combinations. By the conquest of Arabs, since they couldn't pronounce "gaf" it became Aazarbaaijan. So it seems by the arrival of Turkic tribes the name have not undergone any other changes. Please verify this by encyclopedia iranica or encyclopedia britanica or the encyclopedia of Columbia university. Also Ahmad Kasrvi has explained similar evolution.
Hello. Before you can add an image, you must upload it first. Make sure its not copy righted. For now, I have undone your edits because the image you tried to put in was non-existent. Hajji Piruz 14:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Please, provide verifiable reference that Atropatena was geographically extending to present-day Iranian Kurdistan. The reference about connection to Iranian Azerbaijan is added to the page. Thanks. Atabəy ( talk) 22:07, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Please do not add modern language names (modern Persian, Azeri, Kurdish, Armenian or etc) to the intro. Obviously Old Persian/Avesta or something is fine. That is typical wikipedia rule. We cannot list the name of Atropatene in every relevant language of the region:Talysh,Tat, Persian, Kurdish, Azeri, Armenian and etc. This is senseless nationalism and I will report the next person that does it to dbachmann. -- Khodabandeh14 ( talk) 15:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
In the 'History' section I noticed several references to 'Media'. Given that the acnient people of Persia were once known as "Medes", should this not be 'Medea'? 131.81.200.92 ( talk) 15:25, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
HistoryofIran, you cannot possibly expect me to agree with someone's edit just because they say "Atropatene has nothing to do with Azerbaijan - period", which is obviously a biased approach. The Mayan Empire may have nothing to do with Azerbaijan, but when it comes to Atropatene, the word nothing is inapplicable.
Atropatene was not an Empire that ruled lands remotely related to the metropoly, so your reference to the Sassanid Empire is irrelevant. It was a centralised state, a third of which was located in what is now Azerbaijan.
Bad argument, the Sasanian Empire is just an example of many other articles in Wikipedia. And please read the rules, you don't create a talk section and then directly after revert the edit of a user without having reached an agreement with him/her. So therefor I am reverting the edit to what it was until we have reached an agreement. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 11:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
Actually it did not, but nice try. Furthermore, WP:BRD means that you discuss first, before reverting. I don't see why it isn't valid - the Sasanian Empire was just an example, do you want me to write more examples then? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 11:38, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
You can't just simply say "i don't care" just because my argument is right. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 13:24, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Sigh.. let me repeat myself in another way: Why it does not belong here? well because it is irrelevant. Plus the Atropatenean kingdom only controlled a small part of the present-day country Azerbaijan. Furthermore, I don't see why I can't use the Sasanian Empire/other articles as an example, since it fits perfectly in this situation. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
Ha ha, very funny. Don't act like you didn't knew what I mean't. The Atropatenean Kingdom controlled only a little pit of land of present-day Azerbaijan, compared to the major chunk of present-day northern Iran it controlled. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 12:26, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Sigh... that's not what i meant. The land which Atropatene ruled in Iran is much larger than it ruled in Azerbaijan, which is a little bit of land. I couldn't care less how much % of the country it ruled over, since Iran is a massive country which Azerbaijan isn't. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 14:22, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Don't make me laugh, just because you don't like my argument doesn't mean that it is not a "real argument". -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
As it has been agreed that Atropatene did in fact simultaneously rule in what is now the country of Azerbaijan and Iran, it is obvious that in this respect amongst others that it is part of the history of the country of Azerbaijan and thus the template deserves to be in this article. Mugsalot ( talk) 19:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Strabo (64/63 BC-23 AD): Cites the people of Iranian Azerbaijan (known as Media Atropatene at the time of Strabo) as Iranians and with Persian as their language [v] . The “Persian” cited by Strabo would have most likely been of the Parthian Pahlavi variety at the time. Arrian (92-c. 175 AD): The region north of the Araxes River is cited as “Albania” and south of the Araxes as “Media Atropatene”. The Hodud-ol-Alam Text (10th century AD): Cites the Araxes River as the northern limit of Azerbaijan. Ibn-Hawqal: Cites the Araxes River as the southern limit of Arran. Al-Muqaddasi (10th Century AD): Divided Persia into eight regions which include both Azerbaijan and Arran. Defines Arran as being situated between the Caspian Sea and the Araxes River. Yaqut Al-Hamavi (13th Century AD): Defines Arran and Azerbaijan as distinct territories with the Araxes River forming the boundary between them. Arran defined as north and west of the Araxes, with Azerbaijan to the south of the River. Borhan-e-Qate (Completed 1632 AD): Aras (Araxes) defined as a river flowing past Tbilisi in Georgia and forming the boundary between Arran and Azerbaijan.
As you can see, Atropatene was separated from Caucasian Albania, which has nothing to do with the modern Azerbaijan. Why dont we add the history of Azerbaijan to the Caucasian Albanian page as well? And with your statement about Atropatene covered a quarter of modern Azerbaijan, Armenia covered parts of modern Azerbaijan and Turkey, should we add History of Armenia to both Azerbaijan and Turkey? Ninetoyadome ( talk) 16:42, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Quote from Bartold, Soviet academic, politician and foreign office official. See Bartold, V.V., Sochineniia, Tom II, Chast I, Izdatelstvo Vostochnoi Literary, p.217, 1963.
The language of Atropatene or the location of Caucasian Albania has nothing to do with Atropatene being part of Azerbaijani history. In addition, Azerbaijan happens to possess territories to the south of the Aras River (everything to the south of Sabirabad; take a look at any map), and that territory constitutes about 15% of Azerbaijan. Parishan ( talk) 21:01, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
The map of Atropatene is a heavily edited map added by a user, without providing documentation to back it up. I suggest it to be removed from this article. MikeEcho ( talk) 08:55, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Atropatene. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:40, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
The recent edits by an editor who changes the flags seem quite odd, since Atropatene has nothing to do with modern Azerbaijani Republic. I would suggest everyone to come here and discuss the matter instead of edit-warring. Thanks.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 21:22, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
The area of Atropatene which includes what is now the "Azerbaijan" Republic is so small that it's not necessary to include it, if anyone disagrees please discuss it. Migboy123 ( talk) 09:29, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
Atropatene be
renamed and moved to
Media Atropatene.
decision: Links:
current log •
target log
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
It seems that usage of simply "Atropatene" ( Adurbadagan) first appears with the advent of the Sasanians, per the sources;
This is the most interesting one:
The rest:
...and more, but I guess this should be enough evidence. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 15:57, 17 November 2019 (UTC) —Relisted. P. I. Ellsworth, ed. put'r there 08:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
Hello! I've made a better version of the current map used in the article. I'd be happy if everyone gave their feedback on it and if it would be appropriate to implement it as the new lead map. — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 00:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran: Oh, thanks for pointing it out, I've fixed it now. And yes, it's Atropatene as part of Seleucids. Also, I have one question, are there any other cities in or around Atropatene of those times you know that I should add? Feel like some areas are quite empty (like around Gilan and Ecbatana). — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 15:29, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
It's still not OK. The filename and description are misleading/confusing (MedianAtropatene). They should be fixed too. Proper name should be Atropatene or Media Atropatene. Ask an admin to rename and move it. -- Wario-Man ( talk) 05:23, 29 August 2020 (UTC)