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I read a Time article regarding the India-Bangladesh border and it used the term "ethnic Assamese" as distinct from Bodos and Bengalis. Are the Assamese an ethnic group? Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 09:44, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I understand that the claims of the source I added are controversial, but that does not mean they should entirely be removed from the article. Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 22:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the response you made on my userpage:
I appreciate your enthusiasm on editing these pages, but what you are trying to insert are simplistic caricatures of a complex situation, that began more than 100 years ago. Instead of clarifying the situation in NPOV fashion, you are inadvertently feeding into these caricatures. There are many mistakes you have made. The government at Delhi has not been able to clearly define the Assamese people (this is related to who the Assamese people are who will benefit from the provisions of the Assam Accord). So that definition is a legal definition, not necessarily a sociological one. The Assamese themselves are made up of many communities. This has been stated clearly in Saikia's book. Yet you choose to ignore it. The BJP is not against the Bengalis---and btw, the BJP is very strong in the Barak Valley. They are against the muslims. If you take the position of the AASU, the organisation that spearheaded the Assam movement, then the Assamese people are against the influx of bangladeshis (actually all foreigners), irrespective of religion or language. I have no choice but to delete most of what you have written because I cannot edit and correct then piecemeal. They are inherently wrong.
— Chaipau
Chaipau, I am not trying to simplify this complex situation, I am simply adding the information that I found in the "Fragmented Memories" source. You are welcome to add more sources that clarify the situation further. I do not choose to ignore that the Assamese people are made up of many communities - add this information and improve the article!
Of course the BJP is not against the Bengalis, my edit clearly says "the expulsion of Bengali Muslims". Perhaps it should be changed to "Bengali Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh".
Do you have a source that says that the government in Delhi is having trouble defining the Assamese people? Fragmented Memories claims that they have defined ethnic Assamese to mean "the Assamese-speaking community of the Brahmaputra valley". I would love to see a source that backs up your claim, then we can add it to the article.
You seem to have some resentment towards my edits, have I offended you in some way? If not, I apologize for suggesting it. I find your tone somewhat aggressive, due to "I have no choice but to delete most of what you have written because I cannot edit and correct then piecemeal. They are inherently wrong." They are not "inherently wrong", even you only have a problem with the specifics of the information and how it is worded. Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 01:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Chaipau, the term "Ethnic Assamese" is really meaningless. If it is defined as "Assamese-speaking ethnic group of Assam", then Tai-Ahom also falls within that group as they speak Assamese as their Mother Tongue. I would love to see some original references published by GOI where it is defined, if is really so.
Bikram98 (
talk) 08:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Even though Chaipau is right, there are many misconceptions within the Assamese community too. For instance, the people of Lower Assam think that the entire Upper Assam consists of tribal population which is entirely untrue. One look at the history of Assam can tell that the region has always been a part of Kamrupa or Pragjyotishpura. Even before the arrival of Ahoms, the Hindu community of Sutiyas formed the majority in Upper Assam and built many Hindu temples during that time. Even the accepted form of Assamese language was developed by intermixing Prakrit and Sutiya languages. [1] Qwertywander1 ( talk) 10:25, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
what is the estimated population of this group or possibly the most recent census numbers im trying to get a idea in my head of how many of these people there are. 76.244.145.122 ( talk) 06:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
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The idea that the Assamese people have Dravidian element has been extensively discussed here: Talk:Indo-Aryan_migration_to_Assam#Content_removal. In the discussion, it was decided that
Please adhere to these these two rules. If any other evidence emerges in scholarship, please discuss it here for consensus before inserting in the article.
Thank you!
Chaipau ( talk) 21:14, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Richard Keatinge i do agree with you that Dravidian is a ethno-linguistic group not racial, which is agreed by all. The term race used by some authors in context of ("a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc", as provided in oxford English dictionary) a ethnic group. The Austro-Asiatics and Tibeto-Burman group which are part of early population of Assam/Brahmaputra Valley are descendents of South-East Asian and East Asian ancestors respectively, thus genetically and linguistically different from Dravidian and Aryan people of India, so it worth mentioning if there is academic consensus among Assamese authors on subject. The local authors identified Dravidian speaking people in Assam e.g. Bania, Kaibarta and Dravidian words in Assamese language, as mentioned above. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 15:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: @ Bhaskarbhagawati:. Both please read Wikipedia:Edit warring. It is absolutely not appropriate to edit war in this manner. I have fully protected this article for a week. Use this time to discuss your edits and come to an agreement. Further edit warring after the protection lapses will see you blocked for a lengthy period of time. Fish+ Karate 11:33, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
The consensus is that Dravidians are not a component of the Assamese people.
Are Dravidians a component of the Assamese people?
RfC relisted by Cunard ( talk) at 01:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC). Chaipau ( talk) 13:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Thus the antiquity of human civilization in Assam has been established beyond doubt by the discovery of stone celts used by the neolithic people in various part of it. These neoliths as well as linguistic and morphological evidences prove that the ancient inhabitants of Assam were of the Austric stock and not of the Dravidian as it was once supposed to be. The next wave of migration to this country brought the Dravidians, whose history is at least as old as the Austro- Asiatics. They were cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic age, who, in the remote past, inhabited Northern India supplanting the Austric races. The Aryans adopted many elements of Dravidian culture and religion, including the cult of linga and yoni. The antiquity Of this cult in Assam is proved by the temple of goddess Kamakhya. The Dravidians got so mixed up with the Mongoloids, who came to the Brahmaputra Valley a little later after them that as a result of their inter-fusion, a new type called Mongoloid-Dravidian originated. The Mongoloids belonging to the Tibeto-Burman family of the Indo-Chinese group, who now predominate the indigenous population of Assam, migrated to this country from their original home in western China.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Before embarking on the discussion on demographic change during the post colonial phase it may be mentioned here that different races of mankind - Austric, Mongolian,Dravidian and Aryan had migrated into the region - particularly in the Brahmaputra Valley since the ancient time which made Assam a multi-racial region.
Assam or in broader term present North east frontier region of India has been a museum of anthropology due to presence of multiple races of various ethnic stocks. Besides Austric, Dravidian, Aryan and Mongoloid, there emerged scores of sub-races both in the hilly tracts and Brahmaputra and Surama valleys. Intermixing of blood between the main stocks perhaps resulted this multiplicity of sub-races developing into a political and territorial sectioning of the area.
Since time immemorial Assam has been the meeting Ground of diverse ethnic and cultural streams. The principal migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
The Assamese language is like the population of Assam proper a mixed product of diverse elements of different languages — Austric, Mongolian, Dravidian and Aryan etc.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Assam, the frontier outpost of Indian civilisation, is the meeting ground of peoples of different origin who have entered into the province at different periods of history. These people of various races, namely the Austrics, the Dravidians, the Aryans- and the Tibeto-Burmans, after being confronted with each other, have gradually transformed themselves into a plural society with a composite culture. Though, the Aryanisation of the land of the remote past developed a society fundamentally based on Aryan ideas, the other non-Arya tribes, who existed there and who came since, were readily absorbed or got themselves assimilated in this general pattern of the social structure.
This, in a nutshell, is the history of races and peoples that makes the ethnological map of the country and weaves its distinct pattern; Assam is a virgin soil for the Verrier Elwins.
The principal races of peoples that have migrated into it are : the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids and the Aryans. The earliest wave of people to migrate into it, as morphological and linguistic evidences pointed out by philologists like Dr. B. Kakati show, is supposed to be is supposed to be the Austro-Asiatics. These were the principal races of people in the distant most loom of history that built a culture of their own, and dominated a major portion of south-east Asia as Cambodia, the Nicobar Islands, Upper Burma,- and some parts of Australia. In India, races of these people are found to some extent in Chota Nagpur and the Khasi and Jaintia Hills of Assam, as pointed out by scholars like Dr. B. Kakati.'
{{
cite book}}
: no-break space character in |quote=
at position 895 (
help)The history of the Dravidians here is supposed to be as old as that of the Austro-Asiatics, if not older. The Dravidians, according to the Early History of Kamarupa, "were a cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic Age, who in the remote past inhabited the whole of northern India supplanting the Austric races". It might be that the Dravidians were the principal group of people in this country before the civilisation of the Mahabharata time spread ; yet it is taken on authentic grounds that the Aryan civilisation spread into Assam even in the pre- Mahabharata Age. In support of this, it can be pointed out from the Ramayana that Amurtliaraja, son of an Aryan king Kusa by name, who ruled in Madhyadesa, migrated into this land with some of his Aryan followers, and founded the kingdom of Pragjyotishpura. This shows that Assam came within the pale of Aryan civilisation at a very early time. Kamarupa or Pragjyotisha was recognised as a centre of Brahmanical (Sakta) and Buddhist tantricsm by the Aryans at a very early date ; it was probably done sometime during the second half of the first millenium A.D.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time, to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people. There is a belief that the early Dravidian stock got so mixed up with the early Indo-Chinese people here that it inevitably led to a chiselling of the edges of both the races.
The principal migrants have beeen the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids, and the Aryans. The Austro-Asiatics who constituted the earliest wave initially dwelt in the Brahmaputra valley but were later made by subsequent waves to find alternative homes in the hills. The Khasis and Jaintias of present Meghalaya are said to be their modern descendants. The Dravidians came next and ethnologists conjecture that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities of modern Assam are their modern descendants.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people.
To call Assam a museum of variety of caste and tribes would not be a overstatement. History is a witness to immigration of numerous caste and tribes into the region. The Austrians, Dravid, Tibetan-Burmese, Mongols and Aryans came from many directions and seamlessly blended into one. The Austrians were the first to inhabitant the Brahmaputra valley, but after a while, were driven into the hills by invaders. It is said that Khasi and Jayantia living in Meghalaya belong to the same Austrian community. Subsequently people of Dravid community known as 'Kaibarta' and 'Bania' in modern Assam arrived and the Mongols followed them.
Several inscriptions and early literature make references to the 'Kaivartas' and they are considered as one of the early non-Aryan inhabitants of Assam. It is believed that they were of Dravidian origin.
The population of Assam consists of many heterogeneous elements. Since time immemorial has been the meeting ground of diverse ethnic & cultural streams-the principle migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
References added by Chaipau:
The first group of migrants to settle in this part of the country is perhaps the Austro-Asiatic language speaking people who came here from South-East Asia a few millennia before Christ. The second group of migrants came to Assam from the north, north-east and east. They are mostly the Tibeto-Burman language speaking people. From about the fifth century before Christ, there started a trickle of migration of the people speaking Indo-Aryan language from the Gangetic plain.
Thank you. I notice that we still have no linguistic evidence of early Dravidian speakers in Assam, nor of early genetic influx from an ancient south Indian population. (I note that the modern Assamese language does include words known to be of (recent) Dravidian origin, and I presume that at least some modern inhabitants of Assam can trace their ancestry to south India. These uncontentious points are not relevant to the ancient population of Assam.) We should not insert comments which muddle the genetic and cultural aspects of the outdated concept of "race", and which do not present evidence of Dravidian or Ancient South Indian influence in ancient Assam. It is useless to reiterate ill-founded remarks. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 13:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
And, thanks for the references and quotations below, but they do appear to confuse genetics with culture, and they don't present any serious evidence. Rather than reiterate them, it would be much better to find adequate evidence. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 13:40, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
The references provided by user:Bhaskarbhagawati are under discussion at Reliable sources noticeboard Chaipau ( talk) 14:54, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
References
This article says that only Assamese speakers are Assamese. There are non Assamese speaking people in Assam who considers themselves as Assamese but are excluded in the article. I'm a Bengali who speaks Assamese, am I Assamese too? But Tiwas who speak Tiwa aren't Assamese even though the Assamese speaking Tiwas are Assamese? Huh Msasag ( talk) 10:52, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
The Definition section clearly states that Assamese people are not defined in a water tight fashion. It refers to the Clause 6 of the Assam Accord. Chaipau ( talk) 15:27, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
IP address used profanity, against WP:Cooperation ,I hope admins will protect the page. Sairg ( talk) 09:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Chaipau in our recent discussion at WP:RSN and WP:DRN, references for Dravidian are deemed reliable and WP:DRN reaffirmed the principle that all viewpoints need to be included. Are you agree that said viewpoints [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] should included ? भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 08:02, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, the issue was put through an RfC and the consensus is that the Dravidians are not a component of the Assamese people. [12]. The issue is closed. Chaipau ( talk) 03:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
References
Thus the antiquity of human civilization in Assam has been established beyond doubt by the discovery of stone celts used by the neolithic people in various part of it. These neoliths as well as linguistic and morphological evidences prove that the ancient inhabitants of Assam were of the Austric stock and not of the Dravidian as it was once supposed to be. The next wave of migration to this country brought the Dravidians, whose history is at least as old as the Austro- Asiatics. They were cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic age, who, in the remote past, inhabited Northern India supplanting the Austric races. The Aryans adopted many elements of Dravidian culture and religion, including the cult of linga and yoni. The antiquity Of this cult in Assam is proved by the temple of goddess Kamakhya. The Dravidians got so mixed up with the Mongoloids, who came to the Brahmaputra Valley a little later after them that as a result of their inter-fusion, a new type called Mongoloid-Dravidian originated. The Mongoloids belonging to the Tibeto-Burman family of the Indo-Chinese group, who now predominate the indigenous population of Assam, migrated to this country from their original home in western China.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
Before embarking on the discussion on demographic change during the post colonial phase it may be mentioned here that different races of mankind - Austric, Mongolian,Dravidian and Aryan had migrated into the region - particularly in the Brahmaputra Valley since the ancient time which made Assam a multi-racial region.
Assam or in broader term present North east frontier region of India has been a museum of anthropology due to presence of multiple races of various ethnic stocks. Besides Austric, Dravidian, Aryan and Mongoloid, there emerged scores of sub-races both in the hilly tracts and Brahmaputra and Surama valleys. Intermixing of blood between the main stocks perhaps resulted this multiplicity of sub-races developing into a political and territorial sectioning of the area.
Since time immemorial Assam has been the meeting Ground of diverse ethnic and cultural streams. The principal migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
The Assamese language is like the population of Assam proper a mixed product of diverse elements of different languages — Austric, Mongolian, Dravidian and Aryan etc.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
Assam, the frontier outpost of Indian civilisation, is the meeting ground of peoples of different origin who have entered into the province at different periods of history. These people of various races, namely the Austrics, the Dravidians, the Aryans- and the Tibeto-Burmans, after being confronted with each other, have gradually transformed themselves into a plural society with a composite culture. Though, the Aryanisation of the land of the remote past developed a society fundamentally based on Aryan ideas, the other non-Arya tribes, who existed there and who came since, were readily absorbed or got themselves assimilated in this general pattern of the social structure.
This, in a nutshell, is the history of races and peoples that makes the ethnological map of the country and weaves its distinct pattern; Assam is a virgin soil for the Verrier Elwins. The principal races of peoples that have migrated into it are : the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids and the Aryans. The earliest wave of people to migrate into it, as morphological and linguistic evidences pointed out by philologists like Dr. B. Kakati show, is supposed to be is supposed to be the Austro-Asiatics. These were the principal races of people in the distant most loom of history that built a culture of their own, and dominated a major portion of south-east Asia as Cambodia, the Nicobar Islands, Upper Burma,- and some parts of Australia. In India, races of these people are found to some extent in Chota Nagpur and the Khasi and Jaintia Hills of Assam, as pointed out by scholars like Dr. B. Kakati.'
{{
cite book}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 185 (
help)
The history of the Dravidians here is supposed to be as old as that of the Austro-Asiatics, if not older. The Dravidians, according to the Early History of Kamarupa, "were a cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic Age, who in the remote past inhabited the whole of northern India supplanting the Austric races". It might be that the Dravidians were the principal group of people in this country before the civilisation of the Mahabharata time spread ; yet it is taken on authentic grounds that the Aryan civilisation spread into Assam even in the pre- Mahabharata Age. In support of this, it can be pointed out from the Ramayana that Amurtliaraja, son of an Aryan king Kusa by name, who ruled in Madhyadesa, migrated into this land with some of his Aryan followers, and founded the kingdom of Pragjyotishpura. This shows that Assam came within the pale of Aryan civilisation at a very early time. Kamarupa or Pragjyotisha was recognised as a centre of Brahmanical (Sakta) and Buddhist tantricsm by the Aryans at a very early date ; it was probably done sometime during the second half of the first millenium A.D. The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time, to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people. There is a belief that the early Dravidian stock got so mixed up with the early Indo-Chinese people here that it inevitably led to a chiselling of the edges of both the races.
{{
cite book}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 249 (
help)
The principal migrants have beeen the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids, and the Aryans. The Austro-Asiatics who constituted the earliest wave initially dwelt in the Brahmaputra valley but were later made by subsequent waves to find alternative homes in the hills. The Khasis and Jaintias of present Meghalaya are said to be their modern descendants. The Dravidians came next and ethnologists conjecture that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities of modern Assam are their modern descendants.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people.
To call Assam a museum of variety of caste and tribes would not be a overstatement. History is a witness to immigration of numerous caste and tribes into the region. The Austrians, Dravid, Tibetan-Burmese, Mongols and Aryans came from many directions and seamlessly blended into one. The Austrians were the first to inhabitant the Brahmaputra valley, but after a while, were driven into the hills by invaders. It is said that Khasi and Jayantia living in Meghalaya belong to the same Austrian community. Subsequently people of Dravid community known as 'Kaibarta' and 'Bania' in modern Assam arrived and the Mongols followed them.
Several inscriptions and early literature make references to the 'Kaivartas' and they are considered as one of the early non-Aryan inhabitants of Assam. It is believed that they were of Dravidian origin.
The population of Assam consists of many heterogeneous elements. Since time immemorial has been the meeting ground of diverse ethnic & cultural streams-the principle migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
@ Chaipau: Please discuss here rather than edit warring. I have already moved the "nationalistic" line to the appropriate sub section of the article as there is no need for it in the lead. We do not mention ethnic nationalism in the lead of articles on ethnic groups. Another issue is of the addition of "identity" in the "lead sentence", Assamese is not just an imagined identity it is a widely accepted ethnic group and the article should begin as such. I had already mentioned all of this in my edit summaries before. Gotitbro ( talk) 19:40, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Note the work nation in the first sentence itself. Please do not try to impose arbitrary rules. You are not helping Wikipedia. Please do not revert the changes again. Chaipau ( talk) 10:32, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Fylindfotberserk: Yes, I agree. It is possible that people a particular ethnolinguistic group may identify with the Assamese people. The same group might assert its ethnolinguistic identity in a different context. We should be careful not to go overboard and make our own definitions. "Who is an Assamese" is hotly debated right now. It would be best to identify the term as used in different contexts. Chaipau ( talk) 19:45, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
This article says that only Assamese speakers are Assamese. There are non Assamese speaking people in Assam who considers themselves as Assamese but are excluded in the article. I'm a Bengali who speaks Assamese, am I Assamese too? But Tiwas who speak Tiwa aren't Assamese even though the Assamese speaking Tiwas are Assamese? Huh Msasag ( talk) 7:16, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@
Austronesier: Hi, it is regarding
this removal. While it was added by the Sairg sockfarm, the content seems to be sourced well
[13]. The exact lines in page 129, An interesting feature of identity politics in colonial Assam
was that the willingness to accept immigrants as part of the
Assamese community was leading to the transformation of this very
community whose cultural determinants were largely Hindu
. Should we reinstate it? -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 11:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Amalendu Guha’s chief contribution lay in his identification of the primarily economic nature of the agitation against the outsiders. He classifies the immigrants in Assam into four groups:
(1) tea garden labourers (2) migrants from East Bengal prior to independence (3) Hindus who came as a result of migration, and (4) Nepalis who came in search of livelihood. Guha points out that of these the Nepalis and the tea garden labourers did not compete with the natives for jobs, a factor, which rendered them more acceptable to the local people. The case of the Bengali immigrant was,
however, different. According to Guha the immigrant Bengali Hindus were disliked because they competed with the dominant Assamese middle class for land, jobs and local power.
... transformation of this very community whose cultural determinants were largely Hinduwere they possibly claiming the assimilation of Muslims. Since in a few paras later:
If Vaishnava Hinduism was so important to the people, why was this ignored in the 19th century as a marker of Assamese identity? One cannot help wondering whether a composite identity
was being consciously forged at that time. Finally, why were the Hindu Bengalis the prime targets and not the Bengali Muslims, although Sanjib Baruah in one place acknowledges clearly that the
former like the latter were not averse to becoming part of the Assamese cultural mainstream?
- Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 12:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
"...adding anything based on that short passage is simplistic..further discussion shows that such an interpretation doesn't work'"← This. A lot of contradictions in the source it seems. Well, my intention was to check with you guys whether this seemingly well-sourced sentence can be re-added. Thanks for your inputs @ Austronesier and Chaipau:. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 15:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:07, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I am removing a digressive discussion on Kamrup's territorial history. It is best discussed (already discussed) in Kamrup region. There is also a confusion between ancient Kamarupa and medieval Kamrup region. After 1681 Kamrup has been a part of Assam (Ahom kingdom and later). In any case, these details are not relevant here, which is about the Assamese people. I am removing this part of the section. @ Fylindfotberserk:, comments? Chaipau ( talk) 18:49, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
The first usage of the English word "Assamese" is noted in colonial times; based on same principle as Sinhalese, Nepalese and Canarese, derived from the Anglicised word "Assam"[43][44] with the suffix -ese, meaning "of Assam."[45]" should be kept since it is about the etymology of the term during British era. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 19:09, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"and then cite Grierson? Everyone has been basically quoting Grierson (1903) from page 393. The etymological origin of the suffix -ese in English is the Latin -ensis, as given in Wiktionary. So "Assamese people" means "people of Assam". The only problem here is that not all " people of Assam" are Assamese people. So we should expand the sentence above to
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"—though not all people of Assam are Assamese people. What do you say? Chaipau ( talk) 03:06, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"—though not all people of Assam are Assamese peopleand also an explanation on how the "Assamese identity is older than colonialism" citing Udayan Misra. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 07:46, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: Hi, regarding the recent additions [15]. I believe it is not reliable since according to the 2011 census reports that majority are Assamese speakers. Secondly, they categorise a separate group called 'Muslims', which may very well include Assamese Muslims. Also they didn't mention other tribal population and significant pops like Hindi speakers. What do you say? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 18:29, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: I believe a section like Assamese people#Demographic changes is out of scope for an article about an ethno-linguistic group. Things like that should be covered and expanded in the state article itself, which we have under the topic "Social issues". I mean, we do not have sections about migrations of other ethnic groups in articles like Punjabis when in Punjab, people have been migrating from Bihar and eastern Uttar Pradesh. It has changed the demographics quite much, a lot more Hindi speakers as of now than in previous years. Same can be said about the Marathi people article where we can add migrations by way more ethnicities in Maharashtra. Secondly, if we keep it, a section like that should be added to all 'indigenous' ethnic group articles who do not identify as Assamese people, but may have been affected by such migrations, making it a tedious job. What do you say? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 19:33, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Reopening talk about the section again. @ Chaipau and Kautilya3: ? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 14:14, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
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I read a Time article regarding the India-Bangladesh border and it used the term "ethnic Assamese" as distinct from Bodos and Bengalis. Are the Assamese an ethnic group? Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 09:44, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I understand that the claims of the source I added are controversial, but that does not mean they should entirely be removed from the article. Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 22:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the response you made on my userpage:
I appreciate your enthusiasm on editing these pages, but what you are trying to insert are simplistic caricatures of a complex situation, that began more than 100 years ago. Instead of clarifying the situation in NPOV fashion, you are inadvertently feeding into these caricatures. There are many mistakes you have made. The government at Delhi has not been able to clearly define the Assamese people (this is related to who the Assamese people are who will benefit from the provisions of the Assam Accord). So that definition is a legal definition, not necessarily a sociological one. The Assamese themselves are made up of many communities. This has been stated clearly in Saikia's book. Yet you choose to ignore it. The BJP is not against the Bengalis---and btw, the BJP is very strong in the Barak Valley. They are against the muslims. If you take the position of the AASU, the organisation that spearheaded the Assam movement, then the Assamese people are against the influx of bangladeshis (actually all foreigners), irrespective of religion or language. I have no choice but to delete most of what you have written because I cannot edit and correct then piecemeal. They are inherently wrong.
— Chaipau
Chaipau, I am not trying to simplify this complex situation, I am simply adding the information that I found in the "Fragmented Memories" source. You are welcome to add more sources that clarify the situation further. I do not choose to ignore that the Assamese people are made up of many communities - add this information and improve the article!
Of course the BJP is not against the Bengalis, my edit clearly says "the expulsion of Bengali Muslims". Perhaps it should be changed to "Bengali Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh".
Do you have a source that says that the government in Delhi is having trouble defining the Assamese people? Fragmented Memories claims that they have defined ethnic Assamese to mean "the Assamese-speaking community of the Brahmaputra valley". I would love to see a source that backs up your claim, then we can add it to the article.
You seem to have some resentment towards my edits, have I offended you in some way? If not, I apologize for suggesting it. I find your tone somewhat aggressive, due to "I have no choice but to delete most of what you have written because I cannot edit and correct then piecemeal. They are inherently wrong." They are not "inherently wrong", even you only have a problem with the specifics of the information and how it is worded. Saimdusan Talk| Contribs 01:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Chaipau, the term "Ethnic Assamese" is really meaningless. If it is defined as "Assamese-speaking ethnic group of Assam", then Tai-Ahom also falls within that group as they speak Assamese as their Mother Tongue. I would love to see some original references published by GOI where it is defined, if is really so.
Bikram98 (
talk) 08:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Even though Chaipau is right, there are many misconceptions within the Assamese community too. For instance, the people of Lower Assam think that the entire Upper Assam consists of tribal population which is entirely untrue. One look at the history of Assam can tell that the region has always been a part of Kamrupa or Pragjyotishpura. Even before the arrival of Ahoms, the Hindu community of Sutiyas formed the majority in Upper Assam and built many Hindu temples during that time. Even the accepted form of Assamese language was developed by intermixing Prakrit and Sutiya languages. [1] Qwertywander1 ( talk) 10:25, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
what is the estimated population of this group or possibly the most recent census numbers im trying to get a idea in my head of how many of these people there are. 76.244.145.122 ( talk) 06:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
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The idea that the Assamese people have Dravidian element has been extensively discussed here: Talk:Indo-Aryan_migration_to_Assam#Content_removal. In the discussion, it was decided that
Please adhere to these these two rules. If any other evidence emerges in scholarship, please discuss it here for consensus before inserting in the article.
Thank you!
Chaipau ( talk) 21:14, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
Richard Keatinge i do agree with you that Dravidian is a ethno-linguistic group not racial, which is agreed by all. The term race used by some authors in context of ("a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc", as provided in oxford English dictionary) a ethnic group. The Austro-Asiatics and Tibeto-Burman group which are part of early population of Assam/Brahmaputra Valley are descendents of South-East Asian and East Asian ancestors respectively, thus genetically and linguistically different from Dravidian and Aryan people of India, so it worth mentioning if there is academic consensus among Assamese authors on subject. The local authors identified Dravidian speaking people in Assam e.g. Bania, Kaibarta and Dravidian words in Assamese language, as mentioned above. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 15:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: @ Bhaskarbhagawati:. Both please read Wikipedia:Edit warring. It is absolutely not appropriate to edit war in this manner. I have fully protected this article for a week. Use this time to discuss your edits and come to an agreement. Further edit warring after the protection lapses will see you blocked for a lengthy period of time. Fish+ Karate 11:33, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
The consensus is that Dravidians are not a component of the Assamese people.
Are Dravidians a component of the Assamese people?
RfC relisted by Cunard ( talk) at 01:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC). Chaipau ( talk) 13:07, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Thus the antiquity of human civilization in Assam has been established beyond doubt by the discovery of stone celts used by the neolithic people in various part of it. These neoliths as well as linguistic and morphological evidences prove that the ancient inhabitants of Assam were of the Austric stock and not of the Dravidian as it was once supposed to be. The next wave of migration to this country brought the Dravidians, whose history is at least as old as the Austro- Asiatics. They were cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic age, who, in the remote past, inhabited Northern India supplanting the Austric races. The Aryans adopted many elements of Dravidian culture and religion, including the cult of linga and yoni. The antiquity Of this cult in Assam is proved by the temple of goddess Kamakhya. The Dravidians got so mixed up with the Mongoloids, who came to the Brahmaputra Valley a little later after them that as a result of their inter-fusion, a new type called Mongoloid-Dravidian originated. The Mongoloids belonging to the Tibeto-Burman family of the Indo-Chinese group, who now predominate the indigenous population of Assam, migrated to this country from their original home in western China.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Before embarking on the discussion on demographic change during the post colonial phase it may be mentioned here that different races of mankind - Austric, Mongolian,Dravidian and Aryan had migrated into the region - particularly in the Brahmaputra Valley since the ancient time which made Assam a multi-racial region.
Assam or in broader term present North east frontier region of India has been a museum of anthropology due to presence of multiple races of various ethnic stocks. Besides Austric, Dravidian, Aryan and Mongoloid, there emerged scores of sub-races both in the hilly tracts and Brahmaputra and Surama valleys. Intermixing of blood between the main stocks perhaps resulted this multiplicity of sub-races developing into a political and territorial sectioning of the area.
Since time immemorial Assam has been the meeting Ground of diverse ethnic and cultural streams. The principal migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
The Assamese language is like the population of Assam proper a mixed product of diverse elements of different languages — Austric, Mongolian, Dravidian and Aryan etc.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)Assam, the frontier outpost of Indian civilisation, is the meeting ground of peoples of different origin who have entered into the province at different periods of history. These people of various races, namely the Austrics, the Dravidians, the Aryans- and the Tibeto-Burmans, after being confronted with each other, have gradually transformed themselves into a plural society with a composite culture. Though, the Aryanisation of the land of the remote past developed a society fundamentally based on Aryan ideas, the other non-Arya tribes, who existed there and who came since, were readily absorbed or got themselves assimilated in this general pattern of the social structure.
This, in a nutshell, is the history of races and peoples that makes the ethnological map of the country and weaves its distinct pattern; Assam is a virgin soil for the Verrier Elwins.
The principal races of peoples that have migrated into it are : the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids and the Aryans. The earliest wave of people to migrate into it, as morphological and linguistic evidences pointed out by philologists like Dr. B. Kakati show, is supposed to be is supposed to be the Austro-Asiatics. These were the principal races of people in the distant most loom of history that built a culture of their own, and dominated a major portion of south-east Asia as Cambodia, the Nicobar Islands, Upper Burma,- and some parts of Australia. In India, races of these people are found to some extent in Chota Nagpur and the Khasi and Jaintia Hills of Assam, as pointed out by scholars like Dr. B. Kakati.'
{{
cite book}}
: no-break space character in |quote=
at position 895 (
help)The history of the Dravidians here is supposed to be as old as that of the Austro-Asiatics, if not older. The Dravidians, according to the Early History of Kamarupa, "were a cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic Age, who in the remote past inhabited the whole of northern India supplanting the Austric races". It might be that the Dravidians were the principal group of people in this country before the civilisation of the Mahabharata time spread ; yet it is taken on authentic grounds that the Aryan civilisation spread into Assam even in the pre- Mahabharata Age. In support of this, it can be pointed out from the Ramayana that Amurtliaraja, son of an Aryan king Kusa by name, who ruled in Madhyadesa, migrated into this land with some of his Aryan followers, and founded the kingdom of Pragjyotishpura. This shows that Assam came within the pale of Aryan civilisation at a very early time. Kamarupa or Pragjyotisha was recognised as a centre of Brahmanical (Sakta) and Buddhist tantricsm by the Aryans at a very early date ; it was probably done sometime during the second half of the first millenium A.D.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time, to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people. There is a belief that the early Dravidian stock got so mixed up with the early Indo-Chinese people here that it inevitably led to a chiselling of the edges of both the races.
The principal migrants have beeen the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids, and the Aryans. The Austro-Asiatics who constituted the earliest wave initially dwelt in the Brahmaputra valley but were later made by subsequent waves to find alternative homes in the hills. The Khasis and Jaintias of present Meghalaya are said to be their modern descendants. The Dravidians came next and ethnologists conjecture that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities of modern Assam are their modern descendants.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people.
To call Assam a museum of variety of caste and tribes would not be a overstatement. History is a witness to immigration of numerous caste and tribes into the region. The Austrians, Dravid, Tibetan-Burmese, Mongols and Aryans came from many directions and seamlessly blended into one. The Austrians were the first to inhabitant the Brahmaputra valley, but after a while, were driven into the hills by invaders. It is said that Khasi and Jayantia living in Meghalaya belong to the same Austrian community. Subsequently people of Dravid community known as 'Kaibarta' and 'Bania' in modern Assam arrived and the Mongols followed them.
Several inscriptions and early literature make references to the 'Kaivartas' and they are considered as one of the early non-Aryan inhabitants of Assam. It is believed that they were of Dravidian origin.
The population of Assam consists of many heterogeneous elements. Since time immemorial has been the meeting ground of diverse ethnic & cultural streams-the principle migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
References added by Chaipau:
The first group of migrants to settle in this part of the country is perhaps the Austro-Asiatic language speaking people who came here from South-East Asia a few millennia before Christ. The second group of migrants came to Assam from the north, north-east and east. They are mostly the Tibeto-Burman language speaking people. From about the fifth century before Christ, there started a trickle of migration of the people speaking Indo-Aryan language from the Gangetic plain.
Thank you. I notice that we still have no linguistic evidence of early Dravidian speakers in Assam, nor of early genetic influx from an ancient south Indian population. (I note that the modern Assamese language does include words known to be of (recent) Dravidian origin, and I presume that at least some modern inhabitants of Assam can trace their ancestry to south India. These uncontentious points are not relevant to the ancient population of Assam.) We should not insert comments which muddle the genetic and cultural aspects of the outdated concept of "race", and which do not present evidence of Dravidian or Ancient South Indian influence in ancient Assam. It is useless to reiterate ill-founded remarks. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 13:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
And, thanks for the references and quotations below, but they do appear to confuse genetics with culture, and they don't present any serious evidence. Rather than reiterate them, it would be much better to find adequate evidence. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 13:40, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
The references provided by user:Bhaskarbhagawati are under discussion at Reliable sources noticeboard Chaipau ( talk) 14:54, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
References
This article says that only Assamese speakers are Assamese. There are non Assamese speaking people in Assam who considers themselves as Assamese but are excluded in the article. I'm a Bengali who speaks Assamese, am I Assamese too? But Tiwas who speak Tiwa aren't Assamese even though the Assamese speaking Tiwas are Assamese? Huh Msasag ( talk) 10:52, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
The Definition section clearly states that Assamese people are not defined in a water tight fashion. It refers to the Clause 6 of the Assam Accord. Chaipau ( talk) 15:27, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
IP address used profanity, against WP:Cooperation ,I hope admins will protect the page. Sairg ( talk) 09:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Chaipau in our recent discussion at WP:RSN and WP:DRN, references for Dravidian are deemed reliable and WP:DRN reaffirmed the principle that all viewpoints need to be included. Are you agree that said viewpoints [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] should included ? भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 08:02, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, the issue was put through an RfC and the consensus is that the Dravidians are not a component of the Assamese people. [12]. The issue is closed. Chaipau ( talk) 03:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
References
Thus the antiquity of human civilization in Assam has been established beyond doubt by the discovery of stone celts used by the neolithic people in various part of it. These neoliths as well as linguistic and morphological evidences prove that the ancient inhabitants of Assam were of the Austric stock and not of the Dravidian as it was once supposed to be. The next wave of migration to this country brought the Dravidians, whose history is at least as old as the Austro- Asiatics. They were cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic age, who, in the remote past, inhabited Northern India supplanting the Austric races. The Aryans adopted many elements of Dravidian culture and religion, including the cult of linga and yoni. The antiquity Of this cult in Assam is proved by the temple of goddess Kamakhya. The Dravidians got so mixed up with the Mongoloids, who came to the Brahmaputra Valley a little later after them that as a result of their inter-fusion, a new type called Mongoloid-Dravidian originated. The Mongoloids belonging to the Tibeto-Burman family of the Indo-Chinese group, who now predominate the indigenous population of Assam, migrated to this country from their original home in western China.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
Before embarking on the discussion on demographic change during the post colonial phase it may be mentioned here that different races of mankind - Austric, Mongolian,Dravidian and Aryan had migrated into the region - particularly in the Brahmaputra Valley since the ancient time which made Assam a multi-racial region.
Assam or in broader term present North east frontier region of India has been a museum of anthropology due to presence of multiple races of various ethnic stocks. Besides Austric, Dravidian, Aryan and Mongoloid, there emerged scores of sub-races both in the hilly tracts and Brahmaputra and Surama valleys. Intermixing of blood between the main stocks perhaps resulted this multiplicity of sub-races developing into a political and territorial sectioning of the area.
Since time immemorial Assam has been the meeting Ground of diverse ethnic and cultural streams. The principal migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
The Assamese language is like the population of Assam proper a mixed product of diverse elements of different languages — Austric, Mongolian, Dravidian and Aryan etc.
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
Assam, the frontier outpost of Indian civilisation, is the meeting ground of peoples of different origin who have entered into the province at different periods of history. These people of various races, namely the Austrics, the Dravidians, the Aryans- and the Tibeto-Burmans, after being confronted with each other, have gradually transformed themselves into a plural society with a composite culture. Though, the Aryanisation of the land of the remote past developed a society fundamentally based on Aryan ideas, the other non-Arya tribes, who existed there and who came since, were readily absorbed or got themselves assimilated in this general pattern of the social structure.
This, in a nutshell, is the history of races and peoples that makes the ethnological map of the country and weaves its distinct pattern; Assam is a virgin soil for the Verrier Elwins. The principal races of peoples that have migrated into it are : the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids and the Aryans. The earliest wave of people to migrate into it, as morphological and linguistic evidences pointed out by philologists like Dr. B. Kakati show, is supposed to be is supposed to be the Austro-Asiatics. These were the principal races of people in the distant most loom of history that built a culture of their own, and dominated a major portion of south-east Asia as Cambodia, the Nicobar Islands, Upper Burma,- and some parts of Australia. In India, races of these people are found to some extent in Chota Nagpur and the Khasi and Jaintia Hills of Assam, as pointed out by scholars like Dr. B. Kakati.'
{{
cite book}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 185 (
help)
The history of the Dravidians here is supposed to be as old as that of the Austro-Asiatics, if not older. The Dravidians, according to the Early History of Kamarupa, "were a cultured people belonging to the Chalcolithic Age, who in the remote past inhabited the whole of northern India supplanting the Austric races". It might be that the Dravidians were the principal group of people in this country before the civilisation of the Mahabharata time spread ; yet it is taken on authentic grounds that the Aryan civilisation spread into Assam even in the pre- Mahabharata Age. In support of this, it can be pointed out from the Ramayana that Amurtliaraja, son of an Aryan king Kusa by name, who ruled in Madhyadesa, migrated into this land with some of his Aryan followers, and founded the kingdom of Pragjyotishpura. This shows that Assam came within the pale of Aryan civilisation at a very early time. Kamarupa or Pragjyotisha was recognised as a centre of Brahmanical (Sakta) and Buddhist tantricsm by the Aryans at a very early date ; it was probably done sometime during the second half of the first millenium A.D. The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time, to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people. There is a belief that the early Dravidian stock got so mixed up with the early Indo-Chinese people here that it inevitably led to a chiselling of the edges of both the races.
{{
cite book}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 249 (
help)
The principal migrants have beeen the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burmans, the Mongoloids, and the Aryans. The Austro-Asiatics who constituted the earliest wave initially dwelt in the Brahmaputra valley but were later made by subsequent waves to find alternative homes in the hills. The Khasis and Jaintias of present Meghalaya are said to be their modern descendants. The Dravidians came next and ethnologists conjecture that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities of modern Assam are their modern descendants.
The Dravidians might be regarded as the next group of people in relation to the Austro-Asiatics, in point of time to migrate and dwell in this land. There are ethnologists who suppose that the Bania and the Kaibarta communities here are the remote survivors of this great race of people.
To call Assam a museum of variety of caste and tribes would not be a overstatement. History is a witness to immigration of numerous caste and tribes into the region. The Austrians, Dravid, Tibetan-Burmese, Mongols and Aryans came from many directions and seamlessly blended into one. The Austrians were the first to inhabitant the Brahmaputra valley, but after a while, were driven into the hills by invaders. It is said that Khasi and Jayantia living in Meghalaya belong to the same Austrian community. Subsequently people of Dravid community known as 'Kaibarta' and 'Bania' in modern Assam arrived and the Mongols followed them.
Several inscriptions and early literature make references to the 'Kaivartas' and they are considered as one of the early non-Aryan inhabitants of Assam. It is believed that they were of Dravidian origin.
The population of Assam consists of many heterogeneous elements. Since time immemorial has been the meeting ground of diverse ethnic & cultural streams-the principle migrants have been the Austro-Asiatics, the Dravidians, the Tibeto-Burman, the Mongoloid and Aryans.
@ Chaipau: Please discuss here rather than edit warring. I have already moved the "nationalistic" line to the appropriate sub section of the article as there is no need for it in the lead. We do not mention ethnic nationalism in the lead of articles on ethnic groups. Another issue is of the addition of "identity" in the "lead sentence", Assamese is not just an imagined identity it is a widely accepted ethnic group and the article should begin as such. I had already mentioned all of this in my edit summaries before. Gotitbro ( talk) 19:40, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Note the work nation in the first sentence itself. Please do not try to impose arbitrary rules. You are not helping Wikipedia. Please do not revert the changes again. Chaipau ( talk) 10:32, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
@ Fylindfotberserk: Yes, I agree. It is possible that people a particular ethnolinguistic group may identify with the Assamese people. The same group might assert its ethnolinguistic identity in a different context. We should be careful not to go overboard and make our own definitions. "Who is an Assamese" is hotly debated right now. It would be best to identify the term as used in different contexts. Chaipau ( talk) 19:45, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
This article says that only Assamese speakers are Assamese. There are non Assamese speaking people in Assam who considers themselves as Assamese but are excluded in the article. I'm a Bengali who speaks Assamese, am I Assamese too? But Tiwas who speak Tiwa aren't Assamese even though the Assamese speaking Tiwas are Assamese? Huh Msasag ( talk) 7:16, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@
Austronesier: Hi, it is regarding
this removal. While it was added by the Sairg sockfarm, the content seems to be sourced well
[13]. The exact lines in page 129, An interesting feature of identity politics in colonial Assam
was that the willingness to accept immigrants as part of the
Assamese community was leading to the transformation of this very
community whose cultural determinants were largely Hindu
. Should we reinstate it? -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 11:13, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Amalendu Guha’s chief contribution lay in his identification of the primarily economic nature of the agitation against the outsiders. He classifies the immigrants in Assam into four groups:
(1) tea garden labourers (2) migrants from East Bengal prior to independence (3) Hindus who came as a result of migration, and (4) Nepalis who came in search of livelihood. Guha points out that of these the Nepalis and the tea garden labourers did not compete with the natives for jobs, a factor, which rendered them more acceptable to the local people. The case of the Bengali immigrant was,
however, different. According to Guha the immigrant Bengali Hindus were disliked because they competed with the dominant Assamese middle class for land, jobs and local power.
... transformation of this very community whose cultural determinants were largely Hinduwere they possibly claiming the assimilation of Muslims. Since in a few paras later:
If Vaishnava Hinduism was so important to the people, why was this ignored in the 19th century as a marker of Assamese identity? One cannot help wondering whether a composite identity
was being consciously forged at that time. Finally, why were the Hindu Bengalis the prime targets and not the Bengali Muslims, although Sanjib Baruah in one place acknowledges clearly that the
former like the latter were not averse to becoming part of the Assamese cultural mainstream?
- Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 12:11, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
"...adding anything based on that short passage is simplistic..further discussion shows that such an interpretation doesn't work'"← This. A lot of contradictions in the source it seems. Well, my intention was to check with you guys whether this seemingly well-sourced sentence can be re-added. Thanks for your inputs @ Austronesier and Chaipau:. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 15:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:07, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
I am removing a digressive discussion on Kamrup's territorial history. It is best discussed (already discussed) in Kamrup region. There is also a confusion between ancient Kamarupa and medieval Kamrup region. After 1681 Kamrup has been a part of Assam (Ahom kingdom and later). In any case, these details are not relevant here, which is about the Assamese people. I am removing this part of the section. @ Fylindfotberserk:, comments? Chaipau ( talk) 18:49, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
The first usage of the English word "Assamese" is noted in colonial times; based on same principle as Sinhalese, Nepalese and Canarese, derived from the Anglicised word "Assam"[43][44] with the suffix -ese, meaning "of Assam."[45]" should be kept since it is about the etymology of the term during British era. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 19:09, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"and then cite Grierson? Everyone has been basically quoting Grierson (1903) from page 393. The etymological origin of the suffix -ese in English is the Latin -ensis, as given in Wiktionary. So "Assamese people" means "people of Assam". The only problem here is that not all " people of Assam" are Assamese people. So we should expand the sentence above to
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"—though not all people of Assam are Assamese people. What do you say? Chaipau ( talk) 03:06, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Assamese is an English word meaning "of Assam"—though not all people of Assam are Assamese peopleand also an explanation on how the "Assamese identity is older than colonialism" citing Udayan Misra. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 07:46, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: Hi, regarding the recent additions [15]. I believe it is not reliable since according to the 2011 census reports that majority are Assamese speakers. Secondly, they categorise a separate group called 'Muslims', which may very well include Assamese Muslims. Also they didn't mention other tribal population and significant pops like Hindi speakers. What do you say? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 18:29, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: I believe a section like Assamese people#Demographic changes is out of scope for an article about an ethno-linguistic group. Things like that should be covered and expanded in the state article itself, which we have under the topic "Social issues". I mean, we do not have sections about migrations of other ethnic groups in articles like Punjabis when in Punjab, people have been migrating from Bihar and eastern Uttar Pradesh. It has changed the demographics quite much, a lot more Hindi speakers as of now than in previous years. Same can be said about the Marathi people article where we can add migrations by way more ethnicities in Maharashtra. Secondly, if we keep it, a section like that should be added to all 'indigenous' ethnic group articles who do not identify as Assamese people, but may have been affected by such migrations, making it a tedious job. What do you say? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 19:33, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Reopening talk about the section again. @ Chaipau and Kautilya3: ? - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 14:14, 12 March 2022 (UTC)