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The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hi editors, I'm KC and I work for Ascension. I was hoping to make some updates to the article so that the numbers are more accurate. I noticed that the infobox is a little out of date. Our latest hospital and employee numbers are 142 hospitals and 142,000 employees, per this Fierce Healthcare article. I won't make any edits myself because of my conflict of interest. I'd really appreciate the help! Also, if you are interested, I created a draft of what a fully updated Ascension article might look like. You can find that here. Thanks in advance for your help! KC at Ascension ( talk) 17:01, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again with another request. I've seen a lot of company articles that have a version of a Company overview section that provides some of the basic operating details, like the revenue, locations, and leadership in one spot. I was wondering if we could try something like that in the Ascension article. I wrote something that may work and would love some feedback on it.
Ascension is the largest nonprofit and Catholic health system in the United States. It operates more than 2,600 health care sites in 19 states and Washington, D.C., including 142 hospitals and 40 senior living facilities. It employs more than 142,000 people as of 2021. [1] [2] Ascension had an operating revenue of $27.2 billion at the end of fiscal year 2021. [3] The company is led by president and CEO Joseph R. Impicciche and is headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. [1]
In addition to health and senior care facilities, Ascension also operates a for-profit venture capital subsidiary called Ascension Ventures, which invests in medical startups. [4]
References
I think this new section helps improve the organization and keeps similar information together, while also creating a more complete and accurate picture of the full range of things that Ascension does. I have seen these sections as the first in the main body of the article, so maybe it could go there? As before, I won't make any edits myself because of my conflict of interest.
WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to take a look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 13:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Apologies for the delayed response, thanks for using my Talk page. I will very likely be occupied for the next week in the real world and unable to edit, but I'll keep this on my list. Regarding the first sentence, if you can clarify the question above with a more specific source, you are free to go ahead and make the limited edit yourself if it looks like I'm still inactive (you can just note in the edit summary that it's a COI edit made line with consensus and a go-ahead on the talk page). WhinyTheYounger (WtY)( talk, contribs) 18:38, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again with another request. I've been doing some reading on the policies WhinyTheYounger included in a prior comment (thank you so much!) and I thought I would try to address the concerns about Project Nightingale in this post. I definitely don't want to do anything against the rules, so I'll try to justify why my draft changed the content related to Project Nightingale so much using the policies.
Well, that was a lot. WhinyTheYounger and others, please let me know what you think of this reasoning, and thanks in advance for working through it with me! I will address the lawsuits in a separate request. My proposed text for Project Nightingale is below:
References
Thanks in advance for the assistance! KC at Ascension ( talk) 23:50, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Hello editors, KC here again with another request. I wanted to wrap up addressing some of the things WhinyTheYounger brought up regarding the draft I created, namely the removal of two lawsuits and modification of another.
Another long post! I hope that helps editors understand my reasoning for suggesting the removal or modification of those suits, and I'm happy to discuss further! WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to take a look at this reasoning as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 16:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here with another request. I'd like to propose a couple of changes to the History section.
References
Please let me know what you think! I think these changes are neutral in tone and help make the article flow a bit better and the information more complete. I won't make any changes due to my conflict of interest. WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 20:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hi editors, KC here with another edit request. I was hoping we could add a section titled something like Innovation and recognition to the article that mentions a few accolades that have been covered in reliable sources. I was thinking something like the following text:
In 2021, Ascension opened a pharmacy hub in Austin, Texas. The hub fills 5,000 prescriptions per shift and houses a "patient engagement center" designed to offer patients assistance with understanding their medication. Officials with the company have said they hope to reduce hospitalizations by improving at-home prescription management through the hub. [2]
References
I am open to changes on this! I know that awards can be tricky and I did my best to remove any kind of promotional tone from this and only use high-quality sources. Please let me know what you think! As always, I won't make any changes myself due to my COI. @ Pbritti:, would you be interested in reviewing this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 18:53, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again. I wanted to propose removing the Sites section, as it is outdated and I think it may go against the encyclopedic content policy. Could we then put the remaining content about the recognition received into its own section titled Recognition or similar? I also found a Newsweek article recognizing four Ascension hospitals for their maternity care [1] that could fill out the section a bit more. Please let me know what you think! @ Pbritti: just to keep you in the loop, I've taken the second half of my last request and made it into a new one here. KC at Ascension ( talk) 14:15, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Per WP:NOTBURO, "Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policies without consideration for their principles. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them." Thinker78 (talk) 02:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Done-- Thinker78 (talk) 04:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, in the interest of full transparency, I wanted to post here that I will be stepping away from Wikipedia and retiring this account. My colleague Gene will be making their own account and making requests in the future, and I'll be sure they know about the conflict of interest rules so everything keeps going smoothly. @ WhinyTheYounger: and @ Pbritti:, thank you so much for all your help over the last few months and reviewing my requests, I really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 19:22, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, just wanted to stop in and let everyone know that I'll be taking over for GF at Ascension as the company representative on this page. GF might be back in the future, but for the most part I'll be the one making requests here. They have brought me up to speed on the process and all the great work KC at Ascension was able to do here. I hope to continue that good work while making sure to be very careful of all the rules. I'm looking forward to digging in! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 20:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I had one last request I'd like to make. I wanted to see what you all thought of adding a small section titled Community impact or similar. This section would focus on philanthropic and community outreach efforts Ascension has made. This is from KC's draft, but I know that they did their best to use top-tier sourcing when drafting it. The text would look something like this:
In 2015, Ascension partnered with the St. Louis Chess Club and Scholastic Center to start the Your Move Chess Program in Ferguson, Missouri, to help the community following the shooting of Michael Brown. The organization has worked with grandmaster Alejandro Ramirez to teach children how to play chess. [2]
In 2021, Ascension partnered with PGA Tour Champions to hold the Ascension Charity Classic golf tournament in St. Louis. In its first year, the event raised more than $800,000 for the Boys & Girls Clubs of Greater St. Louis, Marygrove, and the Urban League of Metropolitan St. Louis, among other groups. [3]
References
@ Pbritti:, would you be willing to look at this one? Hopefully it will be the last major request for awhile, and I really appreciate your reviews so far! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 13:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I saw that a request was made for a logo for this article. I've uploaded that image, found [[:File:Ascension logo 2012.svg|here]]. I believe I have completed all the required steps as listed. Catfurball, would you consider adding it to the article? Because of my conflict of interest I don't make any direct myself. Thanks in advance for your help! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 20:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
@ CH at Ascension: I have added the logo. Catfurball ( talk) 20:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, with the body of the article updated, I'd like to propose an update to the lead. Some of the information in the current lead is outdated (CEO and 2018, for example) and I think something like the following does a decent job of updating those details and removing some of the less pertinent ones:
Please let me know what you think! @ Thinker78:, would you be willing to take a look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! As always, I won't make any edits myself due to my COI. Thanks! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 19:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ CH at Ascension: I removed the outdated information. And I improved the lead, I didn't word it the way that you wanted it to be. At least it is way better. Catfurball ( talk) 22:36, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I suggest that a photograph of the headquarters be included in this article. Catfurball ( talk) 22:33, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This Wikipedia article has had an unusual degree of involvement by a paid employee of the subject of the entry. I just came here after reading the story about Ascension in the NYT, and read the history and talk before adding it to the entry. The NYT has has some critical articles about Ascension's financing, and what amounts to a transition from a non-profit to a hospital that's run like a profit-making business, with a chief executive, Joseph Impicciche, who makes $13 million. I realize that non-profit hospitals have to make tradeoffs to survive. I also realize that much of the NYT story comes from nurses and unions, who have their own agendas.
But look at the NYT story, which was summarized by the headline, "Wealthiest Hospitals Got Billions in Bailout for Struggling Health Providers." Your summary evades this issue and apologizes for it: "Ascension drew some criticism for receiving some $211 million in relief payments despite having $15.5 billion in cash reserves, enough to operate for eight months. Ascension representatives responded by saying the payments were justified as the company had not laid-off or furloughed employees during the pandemic."
The headline of the NYT story today was, "How a Sprawling Hospital Chain Ignited Its Own Staffing Crisis; Ascension, one of the country’s largest health systems, spent years cutting jobs, leaving it flat-footed when the pandemic hit." Compare that to Wikipedia's summary: "Ascension's "value of dedication" requires its nurses to work 16-hour shifts, according to a New York Times review of internal disciplinary records."
The underlying problem is that nonprofit hospitals are (understandably) caught in a bind in which their government funding is declining, they're now mandated to essentially become profit-making institutions, the easiest way to reduce costs (and increase profits) is to cut staff and services, including service to the poor if they can get away with it, and they wind up with a faustian bargain that goes against the original mission of the hospital. This shows up from the nurses' perspective with overwhelming work schedules and patients lying in their own feces. The NYT may be wrong, and there's certainly another side to the story, but that other side should be told in Wikipedia by [[WP:RS]], not by the PR department of Ascension.
And what is this bullshit about "Community involvement"? The community around Ascension doesn't need chess clubs and golf clubs, they need more nurses and staff to monitor ICU patients with humans (not robots) and to clean them up when they're lying in feces.
BTW, I have friendly relations with lots of people who work in medical PR, and I appreciate their job, just as I appreciate the job of lawyers on both sides of a case. But I wouldn't turn over to them the editing of an article about their client. This article should be expanded to be based on the WP:RS stories in the citations, and deleted to remove the PR puffery. -- Nbauman ( talk) 18:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
I removed the Community Involvement section because I agree with @ Nbauman that it is undue. None of the three programs mentioned are notable enough to have their own pages, and other healthcare systems and large companies do not have similar sections in their Wikipedia articles. Martey ( talk) 21:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hi editors, I'm KC and I work for Ascension. I was hoping to make some updates to the article so that the numbers are more accurate. I noticed that the infobox is a little out of date. Our latest hospital and employee numbers are 142 hospitals and 142,000 employees, per this Fierce Healthcare article. I won't make any edits myself because of my conflict of interest. I'd really appreciate the help! Also, if you are interested, I created a draft of what a fully updated Ascension article might look like. You can find that here. Thanks in advance for your help! KC at Ascension ( talk) 17:01, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again with another request. I've seen a lot of company articles that have a version of a Company overview section that provides some of the basic operating details, like the revenue, locations, and leadership in one spot. I was wondering if we could try something like that in the Ascension article. I wrote something that may work and would love some feedback on it.
Ascension is the largest nonprofit and Catholic health system in the United States. It operates more than 2,600 health care sites in 19 states and Washington, D.C., including 142 hospitals and 40 senior living facilities. It employs more than 142,000 people as of 2021. [1] [2] Ascension had an operating revenue of $27.2 billion at the end of fiscal year 2021. [3] The company is led by president and CEO Joseph R. Impicciche and is headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. [1]
In addition to health and senior care facilities, Ascension also operates a for-profit venture capital subsidiary called Ascension Ventures, which invests in medical startups. [4]
References
I think this new section helps improve the organization and keeps similar information together, while also creating a more complete and accurate picture of the full range of things that Ascension does. I have seen these sections as the first in the main body of the article, so maybe it could go there? As before, I won't make any edits myself because of my conflict of interest.
WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to take a look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 13:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Apologies for the delayed response, thanks for using my Talk page. I will very likely be occupied for the next week in the real world and unable to edit, but I'll keep this on my list. Regarding the first sentence, if you can clarify the question above with a more specific source, you are free to go ahead and make the limited edit yourself if it looks like I'm still inactive (you can just note in the edit summary that it's a COI edit made line with consensus and a go-ahead on the talk page). WhinyTheYounger (WtY)( talk, contribs) 18:38, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again with another request. I've been doing some reading on the policies WhinyTheYounger included in a prior comment (thank you so much!) and I thought I would try to address the concerns about Project Nightingale in this post. I definitely don't want to do anything against the rules, so I'll try to justify why my draft changed the content related to Project Nightingale so much using the policies.
Well, that was a lot. WhinyTheYounger and others, please let me know what you think of this reasoning, and thanks in advance for working through it with me! I will address the lawsuits in a separate request. My proposed text for Project Nightingale is below:
References
Thanks in advance for the assistance! KC at Ascension ( talk) 23:50, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Hello editors, KC here again with another request. I wanted to wrap up addressing some of the things WhinyTheYounger brought up regarding the draft I created, namely the removal of two lawsuits and modification of another.
Another long post! I hope that helps editors understand my reasoning for suggesting the removal or modification of those suits, and I'm happy to discuss further! WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to take a look at this reasoning as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 16:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here with another request. I'd like to propose a couple of changes to the History section.
References
Please let me know what you think! I think these changes are neutral in tone and help make the article flow a bit better and the information more complete. I won't make any changes due to my conflict of interest. WhinyTheYounger, would you be willing to look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 20:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
Hi editors, KC here with another edit request. I was hoping we could add a section titled something like Innovation and recognition to the article that mentions a few accolades that have been covered in reliable sources. I was thinking something like the following text:
In 2021, Ascension opened a pharmacy hub in Austin, Texas. The hub fills 5,000 prescriptions per shift and houses a "patient engagement center" designed to offer patients assistance with understanding their medication. Officials with the company have said they hope to reduce hospitalizations by improving at-home prescription management through the hub. [2]
References
I am open to changes on this! I know that awards can be tricky and I did my best to remove any kind of promotional tone from this and only use high-quality sources. Please let me know what you think! As always, I won't make any changes myself due to my COI. @ Pbritti:, would you be interested in reviewing this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 18:53, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
References
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, KC here again. I wanted to propose removing the Sites section, as it is outdated and I think it may go against the encyclopedic content policy. Could we then put the remaining content about the recognition received into its own section titled Recognition or similar? I also found a Newsweek article recognizing four Ascension hospitals for their maternity care [1] that could fill out the section a bit more. Please let me know what you think! @ Pbritti: just to keep you in the loop, I've taken the second half of my last request and made it into a new one here. KC at Ascension ( talk) 14:15, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Per WP:NOTBURO, "Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policies without consideration for their principles. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them." Thinker78 (talk) 02:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Done-- Thinker78 (talk) 04:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, in the interest of full transparency, I wanted to post here that I will be stepping away from Wikipedia and retiring this account. My colleague Gene will be making their own account and making requests in the future, and I'll be sure they know about the conflict of interest rules so everything keeps going smoothly. @ WhinyTheYounger: and @ Pbritti:, thank you so much for all your help over the last few months and reviewing my requests, I really appreciate it! KC at Ascension ( talk) 19:22, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, just wanted to stop in and let everyone know that I'll be taking over for GF at Ascension as the company representative on this page. GF might be back in the future, but for the most part I'll be the one making requests here. They have brought me up to speed on the process and all the great work KC at Ascension was able to do here. I hope to continue that good work while making sure to be very careful of all the rules. I'm looking forward to digging in! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 20:56, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I had one last request I'd like to make. I wanted to see what you all thought of adding a small section titled Community impact or similar. This section would focus on philanthropic and community outreach efforts Ascension has made. This is from KC's draft, but I know that they did their best to use top-tier sourcing when drafting it. The text would look something like this:
In 2015, Ascension partnered with the St. Louis Chess Club and Scholastic Center to start the Your Move Chess Program in Ferguson, Missouri, to help the community following the shooting of Michael Brown. The organization has worked with grandmaster Alejandro Ramirez to teach children how to play chess. [2]
In 2021, Ascension partnered with PGA Tour Champions to hold the Ascension Charity Classic golf tournament in St. Louis. In its first year, the event raised more than $800,000 for the Boys & Girls Clubs of Greater St. Louis, Marygrove, and the Urban League of Metropolitan St. Louis, among other groups. [3]
References
@ Pbritti:, would you be willing to look at this one? Hopefully it will be the last major request for awhile, and I really appreciate your reviews so far! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 13:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hi editors, I saw that a request was made for a logo for this article. I've uploaded that image, found [[:File:Ascension logo 2012.svg|here]]. I believe I have completed all the required steps as listed. Catfurball, would you consider adding it to the article? Because of my conflict of interest I don't make any direct myself. Thanks in advance for your help! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 20:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
@ CH at Ascension: I have added the logo. Catfurball ( talk) 20:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, with the body of the article updated, I'd like to propose an update to the lead. Some of the information in the current lead is outdated (CEO and 2018, for example) and I think something like the following does a decent job of updating those details and removing some of the less pertinent ones:
Please let me know what you think! @ Thinker78:, would you be willing to take a look at this request as well? I'd really appreciate it! As always, I won't make any edits myself due to my COI. Thanks! ~~~~ CH at Ascension ( talk) 19:33, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ CH at Ascension: I removed the outdated information. And I improved the lead, I didn't word it the way that you wanted it to be. At least it is way better. Catfurball ( talk) 22:36, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I suggest that a photograph of the headquarters be included in this article. Catfurball ( talk) 22:33, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This Wikipedia article has had an unusual degree of involvement by a paid employee of the subject of the entry. I just came here after reading the story about Ascension in the NYT, and read the history and talk before adding it to the entry. The NYT has has some critical articles about Ascension's financing, and what amounts to a transition from a non-profit to a hospital that's run like a profit-making business, with a chief executive, Joseph Impicciche, who makes $13 million. I realize that non-profit hospitals have to make tradeoffs to survive. I also realize that much of the NYT story comes from nurses and unions, who have their own agendas.
But look at the NYT story, which was summarized by the headline, "Wealthiest Hospitals Got Billions in Bailout for Struggling Health Providers." Your summary evades this issue and apologizes for it: "Ascension drew some criticism for receiving some $211 million in relief payments despite having $15.5 billion in cash reserves, enough to operate for eight months. Ascension representatives responded by saying the payments were justified as the company had not laid-off or furloughed employees during the pandemic."
The headline of the NYT story today was, "How a Sprawling Hospital Chain Ignited Its Own Staffing Crisis; Ascension, one of the country’s largest health systems, spent years cutting jobs, leaving it flat-footed when the pandemic hit." Compare that to Wikipedia's summary: "Ascension's "value of dedication" requires its nurses to work 16-hour shifts, according to a New York Times review of internal disciplinary records."
The underlying problem is that nonprofit hospitals are (understandably) caught in a bind in which their government funding is declining, they're now mandated to essentially become profit-making institutions, the easiest way to reduce costs (and increase profits) is to cut staff and services, including service to the poor if they can get away with it, and they wind up with a faustian bargain that goes against the original mission of the hospital. This shows up from the nurses' perspective with overwhelming work schedules and patients lying in their own feces. The NYT may be wrong, and there's certainly another side to the story, but that other side should be told in Wikipedia by [[WP:RS]], not by the PR department of Ascension.
And what is this bullshit about "Community involvement"? The community around Ascension doesn't need chess clubs and golf clubs, they need more nurses and staff to monitor ICU patients with humans (not robots) and to clean them up when they're lying in feces.
BTW, I have friendly relations with lots of people who work in medical PR, and I appreciate their job, just as I appreciate the job of lawyers on both sides of a case. But I wouldn't turn over to them the editing of an article about their client. This article should be expanded to be based on the WP:RS stories in the citations, and deleted to remove the PR puffery. -- Nbauman ( talk) 18:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
I removed the Community Involvement section because I agree with @ Nbauman that it is undue. None of the three programs mentioned are notable enough to have their own pages, and other healthcare systems and large companies do not have similar sections in their Wikipedia articles. Martey ( talk) 21:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)