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On 27 October 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Armenian Highlands to Armenian highlands. The result of the discussion was moved. |
also if anyone can help me understand if Armenian Plateau is fertile PLEASE tell me and you will be greatly appreciated, email me at looneytoons@prairiestyles.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.47.168.181 ( talk • contribs) 21:36, 11 October 2006.
This article needs minor editorial clean up to reduce advocacy and bring it in conformance with the Neutral Point of View policy. Gregkar 18:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Add please if approved. Armenian highland is a mountainous country, a natural fortress that stretches from the eastern West Asia to Anatolia and from the Black Sea to Mesopotamia. The mountain is made up of several coast ranges, buying the Taurus and Pontos which are the two most important. Between these jungle chains there are several high altitude plains, the minority of them situated between 1,000- 2,000 meters over the sea level. In the lakes run some of the major reservoirs in the area, e.g. Araxes, Euphrates and Tigris.
No references, blanket statements of political character, mentions of "official thefts", statements like "Armenia has helped build many popular cities even today", funny that Republic of Armenia was founded recently. What city has "Armenia" built? Armenians I could understand, but Armenia? Whether some people like it or not, those lands belonged to the Seljuqs and Ottomans since 1071, both legally and practically; so let's cut down on the political overtones. The present day borders were established by the Treaty of Kars, and some people better accept that and stop irredentist notions, like pan-Armenianism. It doesn't matter if Armenia doesn't accept the Treaty of Kars since Armenia doesn't have such a right: UN maps do not show a "Greater Armenia". Those lands belong to Turkey, and if you don't like it, fine; that's your opinion, but keep them out of Wikipedia please. Baristarim 05:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed a massive deletion here. I dont know the history of this article, so an unsuspecting person like me may conjecture vandalism. Please double-cleck. Mukadderat 02:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC) It seems to have just been some bizarre religious Christian fundamentalist stuff that was removed. Meowy 21:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
as the page is protected please add the an iwiki link to the Ukrainian wikipedia: uk:Вірменське нагір'я —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.76.33.74 ( talk) 23:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Preferable to discuss before the deletion of significant topics at SeeAlso, all are related to the region. Andranikpasha ( talk) 21:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
this map is obviously POV, there are only 3 states in the caucasus, but here 4 states are illustrated (seperatist NKR). So if your going to show seperatist states in the Caucasus, then why just 1 and not all of them? Perhaps becayse this map comes directly from a armenica.org a Armenian Diaspora site. Any person with common sense will agree this is simply POV, this was the reason for the removal of the map, perhaps a standard map of the Caucasus will be a better choice. Baku87 ( talk) 13:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Who are these "some" who believe this to have been the (physical) location of the Biblical "Garden of Eden"? One reference to a Christian Creationist publication is not significant enough to be included in a geographic article. Religious traditions about geography are important, but this particular statement has no basis in any historically established religious tradition before the Biblicallly-inspired geographic speculations of the 19th century. The Bible, which is the source text for the story of the Garden of Eden, does not associate it with any particular geographic area at all and certainly not this region.
References to Young Earth Biblical Creationism have no place in scientific articles about geography and geology.
• Archæogenetics TALK 20:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Treaty of Sevres is from 1920, not 1923, and it does not grant Turkey sovereignty over Eastern Anatolia/Armenian Plateau. Therefore it would have been impossible for the Turkish government to change anything in the region had the issue had anything with the Treaty of Sevres. So the intention probably was to refer to the treaty of Lausanne.
In addition, although it is quite true that the place names originating in Armenian and other languages have been and still being changed by the Turkish government, the name "Armenian Plateau" itself being used by the Turkish government before 1923 is highly doubtful. But I am having trouble understanding why there is even the mention of this issue in this article, because:
1) It appears to be region containing at least parts of modern day Armenia, so what turks call the part in their country does not apply to the whole region. 2) Therefore, nobody bothered to give the Turkish expression for the region at the start of the article to start with. So why something you did not care about at the beginning became relevant at the end? 3) It is a universal name expressed in English. Who cares if the turkish government desperately avoids it?
It may be important to mention how political cimates affect the geographical thinking but this one really looks like a very out of place shot at the turkish government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.42.76 ( talk) 14:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
In the 1980s, the ministry of education in Turkey ordered that names that could be conceived as reminiscent of pre-Turkic peoples of Anatolia like "Armenian highland" (Armenians) and "Pontic range" (Pontic Greeks) be effaced in atlases in Turkish schools. The official term of the plateau in Turkish usage is "Eastern Anatolian Highland."
Hrafn Talk Stalk( P) 15:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
This map is a political map while the article is about geography also note how the map highlights Nagorno-Karabakh as the same colour as Armenia and other seperatist regions are exluded ( South Ossetia and Abkhazia), it seemed obvious to replace that map with a geographical map of the area. Neftchi ( talk) 19:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes Armenian Highland is geographical article but it can also show the geopolitical situation of geographic region and that's the reason why NKR has the same color as Armenia. En-9mm ( talk) 12:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I am currently using WP:CITESHORT as the citation format for the referencing. I would however be willing to accept any other recognised WP:CITE#Citation styles. I am unwilling to accept the style that Serouj is proposing as I've yet to see any standard style that generates results like this: "Hewsen, pp. 1-2 Hewsen 1997". The {{ note}} template was meant to be used for a number or letter (see the template documentation for examples), as a precursor to the <ref></ref> & {{ Reflist}} markup. Hrafn Talk Stalk( P) 21:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, this region is clearly called "Armenia" by not only Robert Hewsen in the cited text, but also by countless ENGLISH sources pre-dating the Armenian Genocide WHILE the territory was under the jurisdiction of the Ottoman Empire. For example, even H.F.B. Lynch (a Brit who travelled the area extensively in 1893-1895) refers to the area as "Armenia" -- indeed, the title of his book is "Armenia, travels and studies." Serouj ( talk) 16:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Why are Armenians uncomfortable with it? Nobody is disputing name of Armenia. And why doesnt anybody try to change name of Ağrı(Eri, leading tribe of Urartu, Yerevan also has the same root), which is older than both nations by centuries. Stop fooling yourselves and trying to increase your importance superficially, nobody cares Armenia in Turkey, safe for some ultra nationalists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.214.101.159 ( talk) 11:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, can anyone add the transliterations for the Armenian and Russian names of the Armenian Highland? Secondly, if we are giving the names in those two languages, we should also be stating the names in Azerbaijani, Georgian, Farsi and Turkish, with transliterations where appropriate, as the Infobox shows the area extending into those countries. Probably, Kurdish as well. Can anyone add these? Skinsmoke ( talk) 15:24, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Maps produced during the Ottoman period called it "Ermenistan" - "Armenia". Eastern Anatolia is a relatively new designation.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 21:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
It has to have had at least two connotations: one signifying the lands where Armenians resided, and the other to designate the geographical entity known as Armenia. These maps were produced well after the Armenian Plateau had been absorbed within the borders of the Ottoman Empire (sixteenth century and after).-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 20:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the name is changed and the source states that. But, the Eastern Anatolian region have places which are not part of Armenian highlands (like Hakkari), and Armenian highlands have places which are not part of the Eastern Anatolian region (like Republic of Armenia). Can you change the sentence a little to reflect this? Kavas ( talk) 02:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I've requested for semi-protection of this page, due to continuing vandalizing. Aram-van-- Aram-van ( talk) 14:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Historically and by all international laws the territory of Karabakh is sovereign part of Azerbaijan Republic, so the link to so-called "Nagorno-Karabakh Republic" must be removed from this article, as it is not a subject of international law, rather a separatist puppet entity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inafreeworld ( talk • contribs) 23:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The first photo apparently shows that it was taken from nearby north-west of Ararat mount (High one is located at north of low), instead of from Turkey-Iran border indicated at the name (The Armenian Mountain Range near the Turkey-Iran border). ( Asif Qasımov ( talk) 10:12, 14 July 2011 (UTC))
The description of the borders (or whatever you call it) should, I think, be consistent with the introductory paragraph of History_of_Anatolia. Two should be synchronized in any way to reflect the same description. -- Stultiwikia text me 19:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I have added the Turkish name of the area, "Şark Yaylası" (Eastern Plateau) to the entry of the article, as follows:
This is a correct citation. Armenian Highland is called "Şark Yaylası" in Turkish. Most of this geographical area and population of the area lies in modern day Turkey, so Turkish name should be mentioned in the entry text. "Eastern Plateau, Eastern Anatolia or Eastern Asia Minor" names are hence not errorneous, they are currently used in many resources to denote the area. Anatolia's eastern boundary is not perfectly defined, but Turke-Armenia-Georgia-Iran border is used most of the time. Eastern Anatolia should not be confused with Eastern Anatolia Region, which is one of the seven geographical regions of Turkey and composes most of the Armenian highland except modern day Armenia's lands. I am reverting back to my text, please do not revert unless you have sources telling us otherwise. Khutuck ( talk) 18:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Turkish name of Armenistan Highland are:
" Elburz dağlarının güneyden gelen dağlarla birleştiği yere Ermenistan yaylası denir" (Hürriyet Ansiklopedik Yıllığı, Hürriyet,Istanbul, 1974, p. 323.)
"Güneye doğru Küçük Kafkas dağları ve yüksek Ermenistan Platosu başlar. Bu plato topografik açıdan Doğu Anadolu yüksek yaylası ve İran Azerbaycanı ile birlikte bir bütün meydana getirir." (Aynur Özfırat, Doğu Anadolu Yayla Kültürleri: M.Ö. II. binyıl, Arkeoloji ve Sanat Yayınları, 2001, p. 13.)
-- Takabeg ( talk) 19:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
son olarak bozuk bir kaynak linki
bu bağlantıda aldığım sonuç: Your search - "Güneye doğru Küçük Kafkas dağları ve yüksek Ermenistan Platosu başlar. Bu plato to- pografik açıdan Doğu Anadolu yüksek yaylası ve İran Azerbaycanı ile birlikte bir bütün meydana getirir. " - did not match any documents.
böyle bir şey yoktur. -- Goktr001 ( talk) 00:27, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
-- Takabeg ( talk) 00:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Şark Yaylası is equal to present-day Doğu Anadolu Bölgesi + Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi of Turkey, and not include Iranian Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia etc. Şark Yaylası is not alternative name of Armenian Highland. This article explains neither Doğu Anadolu Bölgesi nor Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi. -- Takabeg ( talk) 02:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
References
Kouymjian's article is provided as the source for "erroneously referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor". But I couldn't find in p. 1.. Takabeg ( talk) 02:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
As long as I understand (by sources),
also referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor" is wrong, because Eastern Plateau (Şark Yaylası) is only a part of the Armenian Highland and the Eastern Anatolia (Doğu Anadolu) is only a part of the Eastern Plateau.
And
erroneously referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor" is close to reality. But I couldn't find sources. Takabeg ( talk) 02:31, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't find any sources that prove the Armenian Highland involves Iraq and Syria. Takabeg ( talk) 03:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Note: Mayyafargin ( Silvan), Mokk' (south of Lake Van), Zarehavan (near Urmia). Takabeg ( talk) 13:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Cyprus article does not contain TRNC or its flag in the infobox. According to some heavily interested users, the reason for that is it is not a recognized state. Filanca ( talk) 10:17, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Done. But I didn't touch the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh. My ideal is to change Cyprus to Republic of Cyprus, to create the article Cyprus (island) and to rename it into Cyprus like in more neutral Wikipedias. Takabeg ( talk) 18:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 23:08, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
where is the objectivity and neutrality? All article is looking like was written by an armenian officer. It is just trying to show armenian heritage with the biggest possible land and the other alternatives eliminate with humiliation(sample:"erroneously referred" ) How can be true referred calling a land with same nation unless they are not majority in there (were not in Ottoman period, many sources says just %30-35) and Where is the Turkic and Kurdi history and perspective in the article? South part of Armenia even Van have been called as Kurdistan or after the Turkish conquest name "Turcomania" [2] [3] started to use for land of ancient Armenia Major
If the term East Anatolia is political name, still using term Armenia which is roman name of area, is that much political. That's why this article should rewrite, according to all sides-- Ollios ( talk) 08:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
"The term "Eastern Anatolia" is designated for the region and is mainly used for statistical and administrative purposes, while geographic expression Armenian plateau is continued to be used in contemporary Turkish sources."
This is plain wrong. "Eastern Anatolia" has zero administrative relevance in Turkey. It's an essentially geographical term that ignore the borders of actual administrative divisions (provinces) in Turkey. Here's a map showing geographical regions of Turkey: External Link. For comparison, this is the map of provinces: External Link. -- Mttll ( talk) 15:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
As for Eastern Anatolia being an "erroneous" way to refer to this region, there's a method to compare the prominence of some names:
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
It's not some Wikipedia editors' bussiness to correct the "errors" of the world. -- Mttll ( talk) 16:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
You're challenging its place in the article, but the burden remains on you to explain and demonstrate why Kouymjian's opinion is invalid or should be removed. Sorry, but constantly repeating "others use it, too!" is irritating and does nothing to convince me that you may have a point or if Kouymjian's viewpoint is even considered minority. -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 02:52, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Again, Mttll, a Google Books search doesn't prove anything and in any case is not really appropriate for this kind of argument. Given this impasse, you can, if you like, ask for a third opinion.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 01:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I stand by what I wrote above.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 23:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
How could it possible? Armenian Highland is a single mountain range with a uniqe mineral resources and chemical composition. It is impossible that the Armenian Highland included a chain of other mountain range, because it is in itself one and indivisible. 91.77.80.111 ( talk) 15:18, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved - uncontested (with no votes) after a full listing and a full relist, and the Google books result seems to tally, so looks uncontroversial enough. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:38, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Armenian Highland →
Armenian Highlands –
WP:COMMONNAME Relisted.
BDD (
talk) 19:37, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Երևանցի
talk
22:44, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Google Books
Soviet Encyclopedia also lists Sabalan and Sahand there. Is it accepted classification? - Altenmann >t 06:07, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 19:32, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Armenian Highlands → Armenian highlands – MOS:CAPS, use in high-quality modern sources by academic publishers [1] [2] as well as notable historical works like Karajian [3] Seraphim System ( talk) 19:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
References
is now referred to as "Lesser Caucasus" or "Caucasus Minor."
... have the Caucasus moved since 1915? Since Armenian highland is also a modern and invented term (mostly used by Europeans) if it is now referring to the Lesser Caucasus that begs the question when was it called the Armenian highland? It would be nice if editors took the time to explain things like this a little more carefully when creating POV forks. This article really should be merged into
Transcaucasia.
Seraphim System (
talk)
03:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. There are three guidelines on this:
There is insufficient evidence to show that the "h" in highlands is conventionally capitalized; in fact, the ngrams results show that it is usually not capitalized. In the absence of such evidence, guidelines appear to favor not capitalization. In terms of headcount there are 10 supports (including nom) and 8 opposes. ( non-admin closure) VR talk 06:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Armenian Highlands → Armenian highlands – Per MOS:CAPS, if there is no consistent capitalization in reliable sources, lowercase should be used. In this case, lowercase is more common according to NGRAMS, Google Scholar indicates mixed usage. ( t · c) buidhe 09:51, 27 October 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 03:57, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources. If it were truly a toponym, capitalisation in sources would reflect this. It does not. The area is also "described" as the "Armenian plateau" with similar frequency as the "Armenian highlands" [8] and in recent usage, there is also mixed capitalisation. [9] It is a term that generally describes an area. Regards, Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:06, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
UserXpetVarpet, hi. You have added the Armenian highland to the Zagros Mountains intro, as part of the definition:
Now, on this page here "Zagros" is not even mentioned. One of the two can't be right.
Brill's New Pauly has in its entry on Zagros:
I'm not sure what that means: that the Zagros range includes the Armenian highlands, or that it is bordered on one side by them (and they don't belong), as it is on the other by the Gulf of Oman, which obviously also doesn't belong.
Once this is figured out, it should find its place in both articles, Armenian highland as well as Zagros Mountains. Maybe there is no consensus, and that should also be included, as it would inform the user. Yerevantsi, hi, you might be also interested in the topic - and maybe you and XpetVarpet know who else to consult. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 19:55, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
The lede states: "The population of the region has been primarily Armenian for most of its known history.[5]". However, the given Library of Congress link doesn't support this as far as I can see. - LouisAragon ( talk) 16:12, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
There is some confusion in the article on whether it is about the Armenian highlands as a concrete geographical region or a political-cultural one. For example, Sinclair's EI entry "Armenia (topography)" is used to support the claim "The highlands are primarily defined by the geographical dispersal of its native inhabitants, the Armenians." But here, Sinclair is clearly talking about the term Armenia and its historical usage, in contrast to the broader, geographical understanding indicated in the first sentence of the entry, corresponding to "Armenian highlands": "Armenia, grosso modo, is a high tableland which in general character consists of a series of plains separated by wide mountain or hill ridges. However, it is defined essentially by the geographical spread of its native population." If the article is about the geographical region, then it obviously can't be defined by the geographical spread of the Armenians, which has dramatically changed in the last century. Revolution Saga ( talk) 08:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
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On 27 October 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Armenian Highlands to Armenian highlands. The result of the discussion was moved. |
also if anyone can help me understand if Armenian Plateau is fertile PLEASE tell me and you will be greatly appreciated, email me at looneytoons@prairiestyles.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.47.168.181 ( talk • contribs) 21:36, 11 October 2006.
This article needs minor editorial clean up to reduce advocacy and bring it in conformance with the Neutral Point of View policy. Gregkar 18:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Add please if approved. Armenian highland is a mountainous country, a natural fortress that stretches from the eastern West Asia to Anatolia and from the Black Sea to Mesopotamia. The mountain is made up of several coast ranges, buying the Taurus and Pontos which are the two most important. Between these jungle chains there are several high altitude plains, the minority of them situated between 1,000- 2,000 meters over the sea level. In the lakes run some of the major reservoirs in the area, e.g. Araxes, Euphrates and Tigris.
No references, blanket statements of political character, mentions of "official thefts", statements like "Armenia has helped build many popular cities even today", funny that Republic of Armenia was founded recently. What city has "Armenia" built? Armenians I could understand, but Armenia? Whether some people like it or not, those lands belonged to the Seljuqs and Ottomans since 1071, both legally and practically; so let's cut down on the political overtones. The present day borders were established by the Treaty of Kars, and some people better accept that and stop irredentist notions, like pan-Armenianism. It doesn't matter if Armenia doesn't accept the Treaty of Kars since Armenia doesn't have such a right: UN maps do not show a "Greater Armenia". Those lands belong to Turkey, and if you don't like it, fine; that's your opinion, but keep them out of Wikipedia please. Baristarim 05:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed a massive deletion here. I dont know the history of this article, so an unsuspecting person like me may conjecture vandalism. Please double-cleck. Mukadderat 02:58, 1 November 2007 (UTC) It seems to have just been some bizarre religious Christian fundamentalist stuff that was removed. Meowy 21:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
as the page is protected please add the an iwiki link to the Ukrainian wikipedia: uk:Вірменське нагір'я —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.76.33.74 ( talk) 23:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Preferable to discuss before the deletion of significant topics at SeeAlso, all are related to the region. Andranikpasha ( talk) 21:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
this map is obviously POV, there are only 3 states in the caucasus, but here 4 states are illustrated (seperatist NKR). So if your going to show seperatist states in the Caucasus, then why just 1 and not all of them? Perhaps becayse this map comes directly from a armenica.org a Armenian Diaspora site. Any person with common sense will agree this is simply POV, this was the reason for the removal of the map, perhaps a standard map of the Caucasus will be a better choice. Baku87 ( talk) 13:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Who are these "some" who believe this to have been the (physical) location of the Biblical "Garden of Eden"? One reference to a Christian Creationist publication is not significant enough to be included in a geographic article. Religious traditions about geography are important, but this particular statement has no basis in any historically established religious tradition before the Biblicallly-inspired geographic speculations of the 19th century. The Bible, which is the source text for the story of the Garden of Eden, does not associate it with any particular geographic area at all and certainly not this region.
References to Young Earth Biblical Creationism have no place in scientific articles about geography and geology.
• Archæogenetics TALK 20:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Treaty of Sevres is from 1920, not 1923, and it does not grant Turkey sovereignty over Eastern Anatolia/Armenian Plateau. Therefore it would have been impossible for the Turkish government to change anything in the region had the issue had anything with the Treaty of Sevres. So the intention probably was to refer to the treaty of Lausanne.
In addition, although it is quite true that the place names originating in Armenian and other languages have been and still being changed by the Turkish government, the name "Armenian Plateau" itself being used by the Turkish government before 1923 is highly doubtful. But I am having trouble understanding why there is even the mention of this issue in this article, because:
1) It appears to be region containing at least parts of modern day Armenia, so what turks call the part in their country does not apply to the whole region. 2) Therefore, nobody bothered to give the Turkish expression for the region at the start of the article to start with. So why something you did not care about at the beginning became relevant at the end? 3) It is a universal name expressed in English. Who cares if the turkish government desperately avoids it?
It may be important to mention how political cimates affect the geographical thinking but this one really looks like a very out of place shot at the turkish government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.42.76 ( talk) 14:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
In the 1980s, the ministry of education in Turkey ordered that names that could be conceived as reminiscent of pre-Turkic peoples of Anatolia like "Armenian highland" (Armenians) and "Pontic range" (Pontic Greeks) be effaced in atlases in Turkish schools. The official term of the plateau in Turkish usage is "Eastern Anatolian Highland."
Hrafn Talk Stalk( P) 15:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
This map is a political map while the article is about geography also note how the map highlights Nagorno-Karabakh as the same colour as Armenia and other seperatist regions are exluded ( South Ossetia and Abkhazia), it seemed obvious to replace that map with a geographical map of the area. Neftchi ( talk) 19:51, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes Armenian Highland is geographical article but it can also show the geopolitical situation of geographic region and that's the reason why NKR has the same color as Armenia. En-9mm ( talk) 12:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I am currently using WP:CITESHORT as the citation format for the referencing. I would however be willing to accept any other recognised WP:CITE#Citation styles. I am unwilling to accept the style that Serouj is proposing as I've yet to see any standard style that generates results like this: "Hewsen, pp. 1-2 Hewsen 1997". The {{ note}} template was meant to be used for a number or letter (see the template documentation for examples), as a precursor to the <ref></ref> & {{ Reflist}} markup. Hrafn Talk Stalk( P) 21:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, this region is clearly called "Armenia" by not only Robert Hewsen in the cited text, but also by countless ENGLISH sources pre-dating the Armenian Genocide WHILE the territory was under the jurisdiction of the Ottoman Empire. For example, even H.F.B. Lynch (a Brit who travelled the area extensively in 1893-1895) refers to the area as "Armenia" -- indeed, the title of his book is "Armenia, travels and studies." Serouj ( talk) 16:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Why are Armenians uncomfortable with it? Nobody is disputing name of Armenia. And why doesnt anybody try to change name of Ağrı(Eri, leading tribe of Urartu, Yerevan also has the same root), which is older than both nations by centuries. Stop fooling yourselves and trying to increase your importance superficially, nobody cares Armenia in Turkey, safe for some ultra nationalists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.214.101.159 ( talk) 11:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Firstly, can anyone add the transliterations for the Armenian and Russian names of the Armenian Highland? Secondly, if we are giving the names in those two languages, we should also be stating the names in Azerbaijani, Georgian, Farsi and Turkish, with transliterations where appropriate, as the Infobox shows the area extending into those countries. Probably, Kurdish as well. Can anyone add these? Skinsmoke ( talk) 15:24, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Maps produced during the Ottoman period called it "Ermenistan" - "Armenia". Eastern Anatolia is a relatively new designation.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 21:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
It has to have had at least two connotations: one signifying the lands where Armenians resided, and the other to designate the geographical entity known as Armenia. These maps were produced well after the Armenian Plateau had been absorbed within the borders of the Ottoman Empire (sixteenth century and after).-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 20:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the name is changed and the source states that. But, the Eastern Anatolian region have places which are not part of Armenian highlands (like Hakkari), and Armenian highlands have places which are not part of the Eastern Anatolian region (like Republic of Armenia). Can you change the sentence a little to reflect this? Kavas ( talk) 02:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I've requested for semi-protection of this page, due to continuing vandalizing. Aram-van-- Aram-van ( talk) 14:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Historically and by all international laws the territory of Karabakh is sovereign part of Azerbaijan Republic, so the link to so-called "Nagorno-Karabakh Republic" must be removed from this article, as it is not a subject of international law, rather a separatist puppet entity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inafreeworld ( talk • contribs) 23:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The first photo apparently shows that it was taken from nearby north-west of Ararat mount (High one is located at north of low), instead of from Turkey-Iran border indicated at the name (The Armenian Mountain Range near the Turkey-Iran border). ( Asif Qasımov ( talk) 10:12, 14 July 2011 (UTC))
The description of the borders (or whatever you call it) should, I think, be consistent with the introductory paragraph of History_of_Anatolia. Two should be synchronized in any way to reflect the same description. -- Stultiwikia text me 19:02, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
I have added the Turkish name of the area, "Şark Yaylası" (Eastern Plateau) to the entry of the article, as follows:
This is a correct citation. Armenian Highland is called "Şark Yaylası" in Turkish. Most of this geographical area and population of the area lies in modern day Turkey, so Turkish name should be mentioned in the entry text. "Eastern Plateau, Eastern Anatolia or Eastern Asia Minor" names are hence not errorneous, they are currently used in many resources to denote the area. Anatolia's eastern boundary is not perfectly defined, but Turke-Armenia-Georgia-Iran border is used most of the time. Eastern Anatolia should not be confused with Eastern Anatolia Region, which is one of the seven geographical regions of Turkey and composes most of the Armenian highland except modern day Armenia's lands. I am reverting back to my text, please do not revert unless you have sources telling us otherwise. Khutuck ( talk) 18:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Turkish name of Armenistan Highland are:
" Elburz dağlarının güneyden gelen dağlarla birleştiği yere Ermenistan yaylası denir" (Hürriyet Ansiklopedik Yıllığı, Hürriyet,Istanbul, 1974, p. 323.)
"Güneye doğru Küçük Kafkas dağları ve yüksek Ermenistan Platosu başlar. Bu plato topografik açıdan Doğu Anadolu yüksek yaylası ve İran Azerbaycanı ile birlikte bir bütün meydana getirir." (Aynur Özfırat, Doğu Anadolu Yayla Kültürleri: M.Ö. II. binyıl, Arkeoloji ve Sanat Yayınları, 2001, p. 13.)
-- Takabeg ( talk) 19:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
son olarak bozuk bir kaynak linki
bu bağlantıda aldığım sonuç: Your search - "Güneye doğru Küçük Kafkas dağları ve yüksek Ermenistan Platosu başlar. Bu plato to- pografik açıdan Doğu Anadolu yüksek yaylası ve İran Azerbaycanı ile birlikte bir bütün meydana getirir. " - did not match any documents.
böyle bir şey yoktur. -- Goktr001 ( talk) 00:27, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
-- Takabeg ( talk) 00:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Şark Yaylası is equal to present-day Doğu Anadolu Bölgesi + Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi of Turkey, and not include Iranian Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia etc. Şark Yaylası is not alternative name of Armenian Highland. This article explains neither Doğu Anadolu Bölgesi nor Güneydoğu Anadolu Bölgesi. -- Takabeg ( talk) 02:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
References
Kouymjian's article is provided as the source for "erroneously referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor". But I couldn't find in p. 1.. Takabeg ( talk) 02:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
As long as I understand (by sources),
also referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor" is wrong, because Eastern Plateau (Şark Yaylası) is only a part of the Armenian Highland and the Eastern Anatolia (Doğu Anadolu) is only a part of the Eastern Plateau.
And
erroneously referred to as "Eastern Plateau", "Eastern Anatolia" or "Eastern Asia Minor" is close to reality. But I couldn't find sources. Takabeg ( talk) 02:31, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't find any sources that prove the Armenian Highland involves Iraq and Syria. Takabeg ( talk) 03:25, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Note: Mayyafargin ( Silvan), Mokk' (south of Lake Van), Zarehavan (near Urmia). Takabeg ( talk) 13:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Cyprus article does not contain TRNC or its flag in the infobox. According to some heavily interested users, the reason for that is it is not a recognized state. Filanca ( talk) 10:17, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Done. But I didn't touch the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh. My ideal is to change Cyprus to Republic of Cyprus, to create the article Cyprus (island) and to rename it into Cyprus like in more neutral Wikipedias. Takabeg ( talk) 18:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 23:08, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
where is the objectivity and neutrality? All article is looking like was written by an armenian officer. It is just trying to show armenian heritage with the biggest possible land and the other alternatives eliminate with humiliation(sample:"erroneously referred" ) How can be true referred calling a land with same nation unless they are not majority in there (were not in Ottoman period, many sources says just %30-35) and Where is the Turkic and Kurdi history and perspective in the article? South part of Armenia even Van have been called as Kurdistan or after the Turkish conquest name "Turcomania" [2] [3] started to use for land of ancient Armenia Major
If the term East Anatolia is political name, still using term Armenia which is roman name of area, is that much political. That's why this article should rewrite, according to all sides-- Ollios ( talk) 08:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
"The term "Eastern Anatolia" is designated for the region and is mainly used for statistical and administrative purposes, while geographic expression Armenian plateau is continued to be used in contemporary Turkish sources."
This is plain wrong. "Eastern Anatolia" has zero administrative relevance in Turkey. It's an essentially geographical term that ignore the borders of actual administrative divisions (provinces) in Turkey. Here's a map showing geographical regions of Turkey: External Link. For comparison, this is the map of provinces: External Link. -- Mttll ( talk) 15:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
As for Eastern Anatolia being an "erroneous" way to refer to this region, there's a method to compare the prominence of some names:
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
Find sources:
Google (
books ·
news ·
scholar ·
free images ·
WP refs) ·
FENS ·
JSTOR ·
TWL
It's not some Wikipedia editors' bussiness to correct the "errors" of the world. -- Mttll ( talk) 16:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
You're challenging its place in the article, but the burden remains on you to explain and demonstrate why Kouymjian's opinion is invalid or should be removed. Sorry, but constantly repeating "others use it, too!" is irritating and does nothing to convince me that you may have a point or if Kouymjian's viewpoint is even considered minority. -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 02:52, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
Again, Mttll, a Google Books search doesn't prove anything and in any case is not really appropriate for this kind of argument. Given this impasse, you can, if you like, ask for a third opinion.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 01:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
I stand by what I wrote above.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 23:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
How could it possible? Armenian Highland is a single mountain range with a uniqe mineral resources and chemical composition. It is impossible that the Armenian Highland included a chain of other mountain range, because it is in itself one and indivisible. 91.77.80.111 ( talk) 15:18, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved - uncontested (with no votes) after a full listing and a full relist, and the Google books result seems to tally, so looks uncontroversial enough. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:38, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Armenian Highland →
Armenian Highlands –
WP:COMMONNAME Relisted.
BDD (
talk) 19:37, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Երևանցի
talk
22:44, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Google Books
Soviet Encyclopedia also lists Sabalan and Sahand there. Is it accepted classification? - Altenmann >t 06:07, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 19:32, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Armenian Highlands → Armenian highlands – MOS:CAPS, use in high-quality modern sources by academic publishers [1] [2] as well as notable historical works like Karajian [3] Seraphim System ( talk) 19:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
References
is now referred to as "Lesser Caucasus" or "Caucasus Minor."
... have the Caucasus moved since 1915? Since Armenian highland is also a modern and invented term (mostly used by Europeans) if it is now referring to the Lesser Caucasus that begs the question when was it called the Armenian highland? It would be nice if editors took the time to explain things like this a little more carefully when creating POV forks. This article really should be merged into
Transcaucasia.
Seraphim System (
talk)
03:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. There are three guidelines on this:
There is insufficient evidence to show that the "h" in highlands is conventionally capitalized; in fact, the ngrams results show that it is usually not capitalized. In the absence of such evidence, guidelines appear to favor not capitalization. In terms of headcount there are 10 supports (including nom) and 8 opposes. ( non-admin closure) VR talk 06:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Armenian Highlands → Armenian highlands – Per MOS:CAPS, if there is no consistent capitalization in reliable sources, lowercase should be used. In this case, lowercase is more common according to NGRAMS, Google Scholar indicates mixed usage. ( t · c) buidhe 09:51, 27 October 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 03:57, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources. If it were truly a toponym, capitalisation in sources would reflect this. It does not. The area is also "described" as the "Armenian plateau" with similar frequency as the "Armenian highlands" [8] and in recent usage, there is also mixed capitalisation. [9] It is a term that generally describes an area. Regards, Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:06, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
UserXpetVarpet, hi. You have added the Armenian highland to the Zagros Mountains intro, as part of the definition:
Now, on this page here "Zagros" is not even mentioned. One of the two can't be right.
Brill's New Pauly has in its entry on Zagros:
I'm not sure what that means: that the Zagros range includes the Armenian highlands, or that it is bordered on one side by them (and they don't belong), as it is on the other by the Gulf of Oman, which obviously also doesn't belong.
Once this is figured out, it should find its place in both articles, Armenian highland as well as Zagros Mountains. Maybe there is no consensus, and that should also be included, as it would inform the user. Yerevantsi, hi, you might be also interested in the topic - and maybe you and XpetVarpet know who else to consult. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 19:55, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
The lede states: "The population of the region has been primarily Armenian for most of its known history.[5]". However, the given Library of Congress link doesn't support this as far as I can see. - LouisAragon ( talk) 16:12, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
There is some confusion in the article on whether it is about the Armenian highlands as a concrete geographical region or a political-cultural one. For example, Sinclair's EI entry "Armenia (topography)" is used to support the claim "The highlands are primarily defined by the geographical dispersal of its native inhabitants, the Armenians." But here, Sinclair is clearly talking about the term Armenia and its historical usage, in contrast to the broader, geographical understanding indicated in the first sentence of the entry, corresponding to "Armenian highlands": "Armenia, grosso modo, is a high tableland which in general character consists of a series of plains separated by wide mountain or hill ridges. However, it is defined essentially by the geographical spread of its native population." If the article is about the geographical region, then it obviously can't be defined by the geographical spread of the Armenians, which has dramatically changed in the last century. Revolution Saga ( talk) 08:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC)