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"Turkish: Aq Qoyunlu" doesn't look right to me. I won't pretend to be fluent in Turkish or anything, but as a student of the language I'm yet to find the letter Q in it. The Black Sheep Turkmen are listed in Turkish as "Karakoyunlular", and it wouldn't surprise me if these Turkmen would actually be the "Akkoyunlular"
BigHaz 10:21, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The q is from Azeri. They are both arbitrary designations for kaf.
First of all, Ak Koyunlular is a Turkish state. And there's no reason to put History of Iran. Even in the western language, people says White Sheep Turks (which means Ak Koyun in Turkish) . History of Iran is irrelevant in here. I removed it.
Not History Of İran Rayin Əhmədli ( talk) 14:56, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a history of a cut-and-paste move made by by Tajik in May 2006 ( [1], [2]). Such moves sidestepping the normal "move" functionality must be avoided. Wait a moment so I can clean this up. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Please feel free to reassign this article to a different stub category, but please don't just remove a specific template and replace it with the uncategorised stub tag. Thanks. Jeodesic 23:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The CORRECT spelling of the name is Aq Qoyunlū. The q-sound is an original Turkic sound only lost in modern Anatolian Turkish (which replaces it with a normal /k/ sound), while it is preserved in almost all other Turkic languages.
The Aq Qoylunlu Turcomans were a Turkic tribe from Central Asia who were deported to the Caucasus by Timur.
Besides the historical facts, the spelling Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu are also used by major scholarly and academic sources, such as the Encyclopaedia Iranica, Encyclopaedia of Islam, and Cambridge History of Iran.
See "Aq Qoyunlu" in Encyclopaedia Iranica (by Prof. Dr. Quiring-Zoche)
Tājik 22:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
For the moment, I've unprotected both articles for further editing and, for the time being, have changed the intro sentence in both to mention both spellings side by side. I've kept move protection on until the final location has been determined. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I stumbled on this one, while browsing. I am an Azerbaijani speaker myself, so if it is of any help, I'd like to make things a little clear. No matter in what alphabet it is written, the sounds denoted by K are different from Q and it is different from Ğ and that in turn is different from G. Four letters and five sounds, as the letter K can be pronounced in two ways. Modern standard Turkish does not have the sound Q or one of the two pronuncations of K, and the sound Ğ is almost never pronunced. But in this case we do not need to deal with either K or G. None of these three sounds exist in Ağ Qoyunlu. As for the pronunciation, the first letter is pronunced something like French R pronunciation, and the letter Q would sound like G in Group. I don't know how the language has changed in 500 years, but I suspect it must have been pronunced very similar to the modern Azerbaijani pronunciation. Cheers. Bye. -- 130.63.226.84 01:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Check "omniglot" letter pronounciations. In conclusion it doesn't matter how its written because its pronounced the same. Torke
I am curious as to the history of the names "White Sheep" and "Black Sheep". Do "Ak" and "Kara" literally mean white and black? Did the two groups herd sheep? Or are they just called this because they were rivals, and Western scholars applied the epithet? (Might be something interesting to explain in the articles, as the average reader, like myself, with little knowledge of the region or the history, will find that curious.) Thank you. LordAmeth 14:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
hey there, the two tribes were of shamanic origin and before converting to islam they had sacred sheep totems so that's why they have that name.-nouserhere
Pejman47, Akkoyunlu are a Turkic dynasty, they ruled over what's now Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran and Iraq. So why should there be a tag on history of Iran only, this tag is irrelevant here. Either we should have all 5 tags or none. Atabek 14:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Aq Qoyunlu center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture. In the Iranian provinces, Uzun Hasan maintained the preexisting administrative system along with its officials, whose families had in some cases served under different dynasties for several generations (see J. Aubin, “E´tudes Safavides I: Sah Ismaayil et les notables de l'Iraq Persan,” JESHO 2, 1959, pp. 37-81). The sources mention only four top civil posts, all held by Iranians, in Uzun Hasan's time: those of the vizier, who headed the great council (divaan); the mostawfi al-mamalek, who was in charge of the financial administration; the mohrdaar, who affixed the state seal, and the marakòor (stablemaster), who looked after the royal court. The post of sáadr (head of the religious dignitaries) is only attested to from the reign of his son Yaqub but may have existed under Uzun Hasan. | ” |
-- Alborz Fallah 08:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | سلاطين عثماني درمکاتبات خود براينهويّتايراني تأکيد ميورزند و پادشاهان آققوينلورا"ملکالملوکالايرانيه" و "سلطان سلاطين ايرانيه" و يا "شاهنشاه ايران خديو عجم" و "جمشيد شوکت و فريدون رايت و دارادرايت" خطاب ميکنند، و شاه اسماعيل را با عناوين «ملک ممالک العجم و جمشيد دوران و کيخسرو زمان». | ” |
Which translates as :
“ | In letters from Ottoman Sultans, when addressing the the kings of AQ QOYUNLUÚ,such titles as “Malak al-Molouk al-Iraniyyah( King of Kings of Iran), “Sultan Salatin Iraniyyah”(Sultan of Sultans of Iran),”Shahanshah Iran Khadiv ajam” (King of Kings of Iran and the Ruler of Persia),” Jamshid Shawkat wa Fereydun Raayat wa daaraa deraayat” (Powerful like Jamshid, Flag of Fereydoon and Wise like Darius) have been used | ” |
-- Alborz Fallah 08:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Instead of tag warring, it's better just to leave Akkoyunlu alone without tags. Obviously most relevant tags here are those of Turkey (where Akkoyunlu state mostly was), Azerbaijan and Iran. But inserting 3-4 tags is impractical and makes the page unreadable. So it's easier to keep it this way. Atabek 07:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Why is Iranica being criticized all of a sudden? You could say the same about every source, then there would simply be chaos. I could say, well, is Britannica really authoritative? Is Columbia really a good source? Is Stephen Hawking really an expert in his field? is Michael Jordan really one of the best Basketball players ever? Research Iranica for yourself and you'll know why it is considered the most authoritative source about the Near East. Hajji Piruz 16:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Alborz, this has been discussed earlier that Ak Koyunlu dynasty, based also in Anatolia, had equal influence on history of Turkey as it did on history of Azerbaijan and Iran. So there is no need to insert a singular template on history of Greater Iran and start a new round of conflict with templates, which yield the page text unreadable. Please, check the past edit by dbachmann with comment "template clutter". I think the template could be discussed if the format of it is changed, to fit the bottom part of the page, just like History of Anatolia template does currently, otherwise, it becomes unreadable. Thanks. Atabek ( talk) 17:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Torke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.0.143 ( talk) 00:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
In the introduction it reads: According to Byzantine chronicles, the Ak Koyunlu were present in eastern Anatolia since at least 1340, and most of their leaders, including the dynasty's founder, Uzun Hassan, married Byzantine princesses. Does this mean that Uzun Hasan was the founder of the dynasty ? Of course not; the founder of the dynasty was Kara Yülük Osman, Uzun Hasan's grand father. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 09:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
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Ottoman Turkish: آق قوینلو = Aq Quyunlu, Aq Qoyunlu.
q and k are different but in modern Turkish they are not able to be distinguished. Today text q character is replaced to k (kalın) in present Ottoman language textbooks. But here isn't modern Turkish Wikipedia, I recommend you to use q character.
Takabeg ( talk) 04:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
According to Mehmet Fuat Köprülü (and later it was qouted in the TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi), Akkoyunlular'da ayrıca Bayındır damgası ( )nı taşıyan türlü renklerde bayraklar da vardı. Topkapı Sarayı Müzesinde bulunan bir bayrağın üzerinde Hasan Bahadır ismi bulunmaktadır. (In Aq Qayunlu, there were flags in various colors with the damga of Bayindir. One of these flags that is located in the Topkapi Palace Museum includes the the name of Hasan Bahadur.) [1] [2]. But we cannot see the damga of Bayindir in the flag used in this article. Takabeg ( talk) 13:42, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Yılmaz Öztuna referred to their flag and wrote Akkoyunlu bayrağı, beyaz renkteydi. (The flag of Aq Qoyunlu was white.) [3]. Dilaver Akkyonlu also mentioned ...ak renkli bayrak... (White flag) [4]. Takabeg ( talk) 14:00, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
References
The name of the sultanate is Ak Koyunlu . But for some reason which I'm completely unaware of, the article was originally named Aq Qoyunlu. Now it was further renamed as Ag Qoyunlu ? Well Turkish prohibits the letter g at the end of a word. The title should be moved to Ak Koyunlu. I'll call the editor. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 08:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Regarding Beshogur's revert, I'd like him to present WP:RS sources that state that the Ag Qoyunlu spoke Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen, and wrote these languages in the Latin script. Until that time, the reinstatement of this is nothing more than, unfortunately, disruptive editing, and will be dealt with as such accordingly. - LouisAragon ( talk) 14:26, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
That's right Rayin Əhmədli ( talk) 14:57, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: page moved. ( non-admin closure) TonyBallioni ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Ag Qoyunlu → Aq Qoyunlu – For some reason, without any discussion on the talk page, the name of the article was changed from the common English spelling of 'Aq Qoyunlu' to 'Ag Qoyunlu'. Can someone please change this back? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 14:42, 15 April 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Yashovardhan ( talk) 17:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Can Akocsg provide a source for their change of referenced information? The reference and quote clearly state Azerbaijani language, not Oghuz Turkic language.
there is no link between Aq Qoyunlu and Kara Koyunlu, because the two have different spellings. please uniformize and link them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1AE9:186:8400:356B:6EB8:1DC:E494 ( talk) 19:30, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
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Aq Qoyunlu is not Persianate , Their language is Turkic . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 ( talk) 14:34, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
|
there is no match with the contents of reference and word of persianate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 ( talk) 18:57, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
Per WikiNutt;
The source given makes no mention of Azerbaijani being restricted to anything, the source states that Sultan Yaʿqub used Azerbaijani in poetry, nothing more. Since the source only mentions poetry I can only state poetry, if the source said court, official, numismatic, et.al., then those could be added.
As for Arabic, why ask for a source for this language yet delete the source that confirms Azerbaijani? --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
05:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
AND, a cursory search of the source shows only one hit for "Aqqoyunlu". This is the one that states Sultan Ya'qub wrote poetry in Azeri Turkish. If you have source(s) that state the Aq Qoyunlu used Azeri Turkish in other capacities then feel free to post them here. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 06:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
The article insinuates that the Azerbaijani language was only used strictly for poetry. The cited material does not imply at all, that the Azerbaijani language was restricted to poetry usage only. There seems to be a strong sense of identity politics at play in this article and I'm questioning the impartiality of the individuals editing this page. The article which backs the claim that this dynasty is a "Persianite" dynasty is none other than "Encyclopedia Iranica (Iranicaonline.org)", the citation stating ″With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Āq Qoyunlū center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture″. If you look beyond the label "Persianite", you'll come to realize quickly that this superficial label only ascribes the notion that this dynasty adopted Persian traits from the subjects they ruled over, but are at essence a Turkic dynasty. The Persian language is not a native language for Turkic peoples. This Turkic tribe, the Aq Qoyunlu, spoke the Turkic language (Azerbaijani dialect) as their native-tongue. I have added citations being needed for Arabic being included in the list of Common Languages. As for Azerbaijani being listed under the Common Languages section but with the caveat that it was spoken only in poetry, I advise to be deleted from the picture.
Pages 47-79 (translated by Scott Bean) from the source "Herat to Shiraz: The Unique Manuscript of Ali Shir Nawai's Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle" describes that the poem language of the Aq Qoyunlu was a partially adapted Oghuz dialect of the Turkic language (presuming to be Azerbaijani), a language that prevailed throughout the entire Aq Qoyunlu state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiNutt ( talk • contribs) 09:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
"Although art experts were aware of this manuscript, Uzbek literature experts were unaware of it, and this manuscript was not the object of research in terms of the collection's structure and passing on the text of poems that for example, was adapted to the Oghuz Turkic that prevailed in the Aq Qoyunlu state." --Aftandil Erkinov, « From Herat to Shiraz: the Unique Manuscript (876/1471) of ‘Alī Shīr Nawā’ī’s Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle », Cahiers d’Asie centrale, 24 | 2015, page 49.
It was not earlier than the 15th century. Based on the fact that the author is buttering up both the Akkoyunlu and Ottoman rulers, it has been suggested that the composition belongs to someone living in the undefined border region lands between the two states during the reign of Uzun Hassan (1466–78). G. Lewis on the hand dates the composition 'fairly early in the 15th century at least'. [1]
According to Lewis (1974), an older substratum of these oral traditions dates to conflicts between the ancient Oghuz and their Turkish rivals in Central Asia (the Pecheneks and the Kipchaks), but this substratum has been clothed in references to the 14th-century campaigns of the Akkoyunlu Confederation of Turkic tribes against the Georgians, the Abkhaz, and the Greeks in Trebizond. Such stories and songs would have emerged no earlier than the beginning of the 13th century, and the written versions that have reached us would have been composed no later than the beginning of the 15th century. [2]
References
For two centuries after their appearance in Iran, the Oghuz Turks seem to have had only an oral literature. The origins of the stories attributed to Dädä Qorqut, which are about the heroic age of the Oghuz Turks, probably lie back in this period. The accepted text, however, was compiled only in the 15th century. A written, classical Azeri Turkish literature began after the Mongol invasion, and developed strongly in the 16th century after the Safavid dynasty established its dominance in Iran. [1]although it doesn't directly state that. Beshogur ( talk) 19:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Identity of Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu
"As a result of the rule of the Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu Turkman in the region, many Turkman tribes moved there, and the rest of them established the Safavid state in Iran. Today, part of the important heritage they have given us is Gunchikhan Oghuz or Turkman, which is used in certain regions of Gunchikhan Anatolia - mainly in Igdir and Kars - as well as in Iran and Azerbaijan, which are now called Azerbaijani.
Source: M. Behramnejâd, "Karakoyunlus, Akkoyunlus: Turkmen Dynasties in Iran and Anatolia", p. 14 Aydın memmedov2000 ( talk) 22:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Why do we need a source for that? They pretty much controlled all of Iraq. Either we remove it completely or add ¨(popular)¨. Beshogur ( talk) 15:52, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
The king's title (right top) and the Arabic quotations are in gold.Should this be enough to prove Arabic is also used in their documents alongside Turkish and Persian? Beshogur ( talk) 08:51, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
@
HistoryofIran: what do you mean it's not a proof? From the diplomatic point of view, the document (perhaps called hukm "order", see addition p. 960) consists of (a) the king's titles and tamgha, (b) the text of the grant, and (c) the endorsement on the verso.
plus it's not some words: The chart uses an Arabic expression marfu al-qalam maqsur al-qadam
also various Quranic verses were used in the decree (see page 934).
Beshogur (
talk)
14:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Anyways, the source does not even mention that the Aq Qoyunlu ended in 1508 either, but 1501-03, just like vast majority of sources.which one?
You essentialy did your first edit, but added it somewhere else in the infobox.what do you mean, which edit? Beshogur ( talk) 15:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I had done edits to the German Wiki version of this article quite a while ago and would like to apply some of them on the English article. I suggest changing the structure of the article. Instead of including "Origins" and "Myth" into the "history" chapter, I would dedicate a special chapter for the aforementioned. The table of contents thus would look like this:
1) Origins and Myth 2) History a) Consolidation of Rule under Qara Osman b) Rise to Power under Uzun Hasan c) Stagnation and Downfall
Of course, I'd add all relevant sources, too. Is it possible/allowed that I make such a change? TengriKhagan ( talk) 12:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Despite what mentioned in the article "The name Aq Qoyunlu, literally meaning "[those with] white sheep"", Aq = white, Qoyun = Male sheep, lu = -y for making adjective from noun!
litteraly means One/Those who has/have withe sheeps!
There are more samples of using Livestock's name for naming tribes in Turkik tribes. For Instance, there are 2 main tribes in Qajar tribe: Davallo and Qoyunlu. Davvali (Deve + lu, means One who has Camels). Qoyunlu (Qoyun + lu, means One who has Sheeps).
Reference [1]
References
@ OrkhanScience: Hello. This source seems to fail WP:VER: Агаев, Юсиф; Ахмедов, Сабухи (2006). Ак-Коюнлу-Османская война. ISBN 5-8066-1372-0. What is it? Where it is from? It doesn't strike me as WP:RS either. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:58, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Last time you blocked me on wikipedia, but the fact is that Azerbaijan with White Sheep is history. Ag Koyunlular spoke Azerbaijan language.I would make corrections again, but you will delete it again, so I will write it here. and please respect what I write and don't touch! In the early Middle Ages, white sheep were spread over a wide area in the South Caucasus, in the area between the Caucasus Mountains and the Araz River, around Goycha Lake, in the Alagoz grasslands, as well as in the southern regions of Azerbaijan, Eastern Anatolia, Western Iran, the Tigris and Euphrates valley
The Aggoyun people belonged to the Bayandur clan of the Oguz. Their names are given as "Bayandur Khan boys" in Turkic-language sources, and "Bayanduriyya" in Persian-language sources The word "Bayandur" in the ancient Turkic language means "a place that is always full of blessings". The name Bayandur comes from Bayandur, the eldest son of Goy Khan, one of the sons of Oghuz Khan. Ag goyunuls considered themselves descendants of Bayandur Khan.
At the time of Hamza Bey, the Bayandur stamp was stamped on Aggoyunlu coins. During the period of Uzun Hasan and his successors, the Bayandur stamp was again printed on coins as a sign of the state. This stamp was also used on the Ag goyunlu flag and inscriptions Beginning with long Hasan, the Aggoyunlu rulers were masters of science and art. Uzun Hasan gathered the most advanced scholars of his time in his palace. Up to 60 scholars worked in the ruler's private library. calligraphy (calligraphy) and miniature painting were among the attention-grabbing areas of Azerbaijani cultural life of this period. In the palace libraries of Aggoyunlu rulers, scientific, artistic, philosophical, religious, and historical works were copied, and miniatures were drawn on their manuscripts. 4 miniature illustrations drawn on the manuscript of poet Hidayat's "Divan" were compiled by Sultan Khalil in 1478. This manuscript copy is in AZERBAİJAN language During this period, skilled calligraphers such as Mirali Tabrizi, Mirabullah Tabrizi, Suleyman Ali Yaqubi, Nizamuddin Ali Ardabili, Jafar Tabrizi, Azhar Tabrizi, Abdurrahim al-Yaqubi worked in different cities of Azerbaijan. For a long time, a scientific assembly consisting of prominent scientists of the time was active in Hasan's palace. Uzun Hasan translated the Holy Quran into AZERBAİJAN langugae and wrote an Oghuzname called "Kitabi-Diyarbakriya" to Abu Bakr al-Tehrani, a prominent scientist of the time. Fazlullah ibn Ruzbehan Khunji came to Tabriz in 1487 in Sultan Yaqub's palace and started writing the history of Aggoyunlu stat. Kitabi Deda Gorgud Dastani, which is believed to have been written during the Ag Goyunlu , is also included in the list of intangible heritage of Azerbaijan by UNESCO.In 1998, the Republic of Azerbaijan and UNESCO nominated, and in 2000 celebrated, the "One thousand three hundredth anniversary of the epic poem Kitab-i Dede Qorqud". In 1999 the National Bank of Azerbaijan minted gold and silver commemorative coins for the 1,300th anniversary of the epic. The epic culture, folk tales and music of Dede Qorqud has been included in the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity of UNESCO in November 2018. 5.191.24.17 ( talk) 12:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
This is an extremely incorrect characterization of the Aq Qoyulu political organization. The Kengač was a council that decided on military and successive issues, it was made up of tribal chiefs AND amirs. The current table uses the term for tribal chiefs as if it was a separate military council, this is a hilarious misreading of a citation. I move that this be changed immediately. 2001:1970:5163:1200:0:0:0:7C5D ( talk) 03:12, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
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Fix typo. History section under Ahmad Beg line 7 from bottom, Change Lahija to Lahijan. 5.125.244.218 ( talk) 11:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
The article already mentions that Uzun Hasan assumed the title "King of Iran" and was referred to as such by Ottoman rulers. But this seems to be a general pattern among Aq Qoyunlu rulers as stated by Encyclopedia Iranica:
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"Turkish: Aq Qoyunlu" doesn't look right to me. I won't pretend to be fluent in Turkish or anything, but as a student of the language I'm yet to find the letter Q in it. The Black Sheep Turkmen are listed in Turkish as "Karakoyunlular", and it wouldn't surprise me if these Turkmen would actually be the "Akkoyunlular"
BigHaz 10:21, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The q is from Azeri. They are both arbitrary designations for kaf.
First of all, Ak Koyunlular is a Turkish state. And there's no reason to put History of Iran. Even in the western language, people says White Sheep Turks (which means Ak Koyun in Turkish) . History of Iran is irrelevant in here. I removed it.
Not History Of İran Rayin Əhmədli ( talk) 14:56, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a history of a cut-and-paste move made by by Tajik in May 2006 ( [1], [2]). Such moves sidestepping the normal "move" functionality must be avoided. Wait a moment so I can clean this up. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Please feel free to reassign this article to a different stub category, but please don't just remove a specific template and replace it with the uncategorised stub tag. Thanks. Jeodesic 23:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The CORRECT spelling of the name is Aq Qoyunlū. The q-sound is an original Turkic sound only lost in modern Anatolian Turkish (which replaces it with a normal /k/ sound), while it is preserved in almost all other Turkic languages.
The Aq Qoylunlu Turcomans were a Turkic tribe from Central Asia who were deported to the Caucasus by Timur.
Besides the historical facts, the spelling Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu are also used by major scholarly and academic sources, such as the Encyclopaedia Iranica, Encyclopaedia of Islam, and Cambridge History of Iran.
See "Aq Qoyunlu" in Encyclopaedia Iranica (by Prof. Dr. Quiring-Zoche)
Tājik 22:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
For the moment, I've unprotected both articles for further editing and, for the time being, have changed the intro sentence in both to mention both spellings side by side. I've kept move protection on until the final location has been determined. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I stumbled on this one, while browsing. I am an Azerbaijani speaker myself, so if it is of any help, I'd like to make things a little clear. No matter in what alphabet it is written, the sounds denoted by K are different from Q and it is different from Ğ and that in turn is different from G. Four letters and five sounds, as the letter K can be pronounced in two ways. Modern standard Turkish does not have the sound Q or one of the two pronuncations of K, and the sound Ğ is almost never pronunced. But in this case we do not need to deal with either K or G. None of these three sounds exist in Ağ Qoyunlu. As for the pronunciation, the first letter is pronunced something like French R pronunciation, and the letter Q would sound like G in Group. I don't know how the language has changed in 500 years, but I suspect it must have been pronunced very similar to the modern Azerbaijani pronunciation. Cheers. Bye. -- 130.63.226.84 01:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Check "omniglot" letter pronounciations. In conclusion it doesn't matter how its written because its pronounced the same. Torke
I am curious as to the history of the names "White Sheep" and "Black Sheep". Do "Ak" and "Kara" literally mean white and black? Did the two groups herd sheep? Or are they just called this because they were rivals, and Western scholars applied the epithet? (Might be something interesting to explain in the articles, as the average reader, like myself, with little knowledge of the region or the history, will find that curious.) Thank you. LordAmeth 14:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
hey there, the two tribes were of shamanic origin and before converting to islam they had sacred sheep totems so that's why they have that name.-nouserhere
Pejman47, Akkoyunlu are a Turkic dynasty, they ruled over what's now Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran and Iraq. So why should there be a tag on history of Iran only, this tag is irrelevant here. Either we should have all 5 tags or none. Atabek 14:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Aq Qoyunlu center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture. In the Iranian provinces, Uzun Hasan maintained the preexisting administrative system along with its officials, whose families had in some cases served under different dynasties for several generations (see J. Aubin, “E´tudes Safavides I: Sah Ismaayil et les notables de l'Iraq Persan,” JESHO 2, 1959, pp. 37-81). The sources mention only four top civil posts, all held by Iranians, in Uzun Hasan's time: those of the vizier, who headed the great council (divaan); the mostawfi al-mamalek, who was in charge of the financial administration; the mohrdaar, who affixed the state seal, and the marakòor (stablemaster), who looked after the royal court. The post of sáadr (head of the religious dignitaries) is only attested to from the reign of his son Yaqub but may have existed under Uzun Hasan. | ” |
-- Alborz Fallah 08:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
“ | سلاطين عثماني درمکاتبات خود براينهويّتايراني تأکيد ميورزند و پادشاهان آققوينلورا"ملکالملوکالايرانيه" و "سلطان سلاطين ايرانيه" و يا "شاهنشاه ايران خديو عجم" و "جمشيد شوکت و فريدون رايت و دارادرايت" خطاب ميکنند، و شاه اسماعيل را با عناوين «ملک ممالک العجم و جمشيد دوران و کيخسرو زمان». | ” |
Which translates as :
“ | In letters from Ottoman Sultans, when addressing the the kings of AQ QOYUNLUÚ,such titles as “Malak al-Molouk al-Iraniyyah( King of Kings of Iran), “Sultan Salatin Iraniyyah”(Sultan of Sultans of Iran),”Shahanshah Iran Khadiv ajam” (King of Kings of Iran and the Ruler of Persia),” Jamshid Shawkat wa Fereydun Raayat wa daaraa deraayat” (Powerful like Jamshid, Flag of Fereydoon and Wise like Darius) have been used | ” |
-- Alborz Fallah 08:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Instead of tag warring, it's better just to leave Akkoyunlu alone without tags. Obviously most relevant tags here are those of Turkey (where Akkoyunlu state mostly was), Azerbaijan and Iran. But inserting 3-4 tags is impractical and makes the page unreadable. So it's easier to keep it this way. Atabek 07:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Why is Iranica being criticized all of a sudden? You could say the same about every source, then there would simply be chaos. I could say, well, is Britannica really authoritative? Is Columbia really a good source? Is Stephen Hawking really an expert in his field? is Michael Jordan really one of the best Basketball players ever? Research Iranica for yourself and you'll know why it is considered the most authoritative source about the Near East. Hajji Piruz 16:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Alborz, this has been discussed earlier that Ak Koyunlu dynasty, based also in Anatolia, had equal influence on history of Turkey as it did on history of Azerbaijan and Iran. So there is no need to insert a singular template on history of Greater Iran and start a new round of conflict with templates, which yield the page text unreadable. Please, check the past edit by dbachmann with comment "template clutter". I think the template could be discussed if the format of it is changed, to fit the bottom part of the page, just like History of Anatolia template does currently, otherwise, it becomes unreadable. Thanks. Atabek ( talk) 17:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Torke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.0.143 ( talk) 00:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
In the introduction it reads: According to Byzantine chronicles, the Ak Koyunlu were present in eastern Anatolia since at least 1340, and most of their leaders, including the dynasty's founder, Uzun Hassan, married Byzantine princesses. Does this mean that Uzun Hasan was the founder of the dynasty ? Of course not; the founder of the dynasty was Kara Yülük Osman, Uzun Hasan's grand father. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 09:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
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Ottoman Turkish: آق قوینلو = Aq Quyunlu, Aq Qoyunlu.
q and k are different but in modern Turkish they are not able to be distinguished. Today text q character is replaced to k (kalın) in present Ottoman language textbooks. But here isn't modern Turkish Wikipedia, I recommend you to use q character.
Takabeg ( talk) 04:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
According to Mehmet Fuat Köprülü (and later it was qouted in the TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi), Akkoyunlular'da ayrıca Bayındır damgası ( )nı taşıyan türlü renklerde bayraklar da vardı. Topkapı Sarayı Müzesinde bulunan bir bayrağın üzerinde Hasan Bahadır ismi bulunmaktadır. (In Aq Qayunlu, there were flags in various colors with the damga of Bayindir. One of these flags that is located in the Topkapi Palace Museum includes the the name of Hasan Bahadur.) [1] [2]. But we cannot see the damga of Bayindir in the flag used in this article. Takabeg ( talk) 13:42, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Yılmaz Öztuna referred to their flag and wrote Akkoyunlu bayrağı, beyaz renkteydi. (The flag of Aq Qoyunlu was white.) [3]. Dilaver Akkyonlu also mentioned ...ak renkli bayrak... (White flag) [4]. Takabeg ( talk) 14:00, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
References
The name of the sultanate is Ak Koyunlu . But for some reason which I'm completely unaware of, the article was originally named Aq Qoyunlu. Now it was further renamed as Ag Qoyunlu ? Well Turkish prohibits the letter g at the end of a word. The title should be moved to Ak Koyunlu. I'll call the editor. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 08:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Regarding Beshogur's revert, I'd like him to present WP:RS sources that state that the Ag Qoyunlu spoke Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen, and wrote these languages in the Latin script. Until that time, the reinstatement of this is nothing more than, unfortunately, disruptive editing, and will be dealt with as such accordingly. - LouisAragon ( talk) 14:26, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
That's right Rayin Əhmədli ( talk) 14:57, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: page moved. ( non-admin closure) TonyBallioni ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Ag Qoyunlu → Aq Qoyunlu – For some reason, without any discussion on the talk page, the name of the article was changed from the common English spelling of 'Aq Qoyunlu' to 'Ag Qoyunlu'. Can someone please change this back? -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 14:42, 15 April 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Yashovardhan ( talk) 17:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Can Akocsg provide a source for their change of referenced information? The reference and quote clearly state Azerbaijani language, not Oghuz Turkic language.
there is no link between Aq Qoyunlu and Kara Koyunlu, because the two have different spellings. please uniformize and link them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1AE9:186:8400:356B:6EB8:1DC:E494 ( talk) 19:30, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
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Aq Qoyunlu is not Persianate , Their language is Turkic . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 ( talk) 14:34, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
|
there is no match with the contents of reference and word of persianate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 ( talk) 18:57, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
Per WikiNutt;
The source given makes no mention of Azerbaijani being restricted to anything, the source states that Sultan Yaʿqub used Azerbaijani in poetry, nothing more. Since the source only mentions poetry I can only state poetry, if the source said court, official, numismatic, et.al., then those could be added.
As for Arabic, why ask for a source for this language yet delete the source that confirms Azerbaijani? --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
05:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
AND, a cursory search of the source shows only one hit for "Aqqoyunlu". This is the one that states Sultan Ya'qub wrote poetry in Azeri Turkish. If you have source(s) that state the Aq Qoyunlu used Azeri Turkish in other capacities then feel free to post them here. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 06:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
The article insinuates that the Azerbaijani language was only used strictly for poetry. The cited material does not imply at all, that the Azerbaijani language was restricted to poetry usage only. There seems to be a strong sense of identity politics at play in this article and I'm questioning the impartiality of the individuals editing this page. The article which backs the claim that this dynasty is a "Persianite" dynasty is none other than "Encyclopedia Iranica (Iranicaonline.org)", the citation stating ″With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Āq Qoyunlū center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture″. If you look beyond the label "Persianite", you'll come to realize quickly that this superficial label only ascribes the notion that this dynasty adopted Persian traits from the subjects they ruled over, but are at essence a Turkic dynasty. The Persian language is not a native language for Turkic peoples. This Turkic tribe, the Aq Qoyunlu, spoke the Turkic language (Azerbaijani dialect) as their native-tongue. I have added citations being needed for Arabic being included in the list of Common Languages. As for Azerbaijani being listed under the Common Languages section but with the caveat that it was spoken only in poetry, I advise to be deleted from the picture.
Pages 47-79 (translated by Scott Bean) from the source "Herat to Shiraz: The Unique Manuscript of Ali Shir Nawai's Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle" describes that the poem language of the Aq Qoyunlu was a partially adapted Oghuz dialect of the Turkic language (presuming to be Azerbaijani), a language that prevailed throughout the entire Aq Qoyunlu state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiNutt ( talk • contribs) 09:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
"Although art experts were aware of this manuscript, Uzbek literature experts were unaware of it, and this manuscript was not the object of research in terms of the collection's structure and passing on the text of poems that for example, was adapted to the Oghuz Turkic that prevailed in the Aq Qoyunlu state." --Aftandil Erkinov, « From Herat to Shiraz: the Unique Manuscript (876/1471) of ‘Alī Shīr Nawā’ī’s Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle », Cahiers d’Asie centrale, 24 | 2015, page 49.
It was not earlier than the 15th century. Based on the fact that the author is buttering up both the Akkoyunlu and Ottoman rulers, it has been suggested that the composition belongs to someone living in the undefined border region lands between the two states during the reign of Uzun Hassan (1466–78). G. Lewis on the hand dates the composition 'fairly early in the 15th century at least'. [1]
According to Lewis (1974), an older substratum of these oral traditions dates to conflicts between the ancient Oghuz and their Turkish rivals in Central Asia (the Pecheneks and the Kipchaks), but this substratum has been clothed in references to the 14th-century campaigns of the Akkoyunlu Confederation of Turkic tribes against the Georgians, the Abkhaz, and the Greeks in Trebizond. Such stories and songs would have emerged no earlier than the beginning of the 13th century, and the written versions that have reached us would have been composed no later than the beginning of the 15th century. [2]
References
For two centuries after their appearance in Iran, the Oghuz Turks seem to have had only an oral literature. The origins of the stories attributed to Dädä Qorqut, which are about the heroic age of the Oghuz Turks, probably lie back in this period. The accepted text, however, was compiled only in the 15th century. A written, classical Azeri Turkish literature began after the Mongol invasion, and developed strongly in the 16th century after the Safavid dynasty established its dominance in Iran. [1]although it doesn't directly state that. Beshogur ( talk) 19:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
Identity of Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu
"As a result of the rule of the Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu Turkman in the region, many Turkman tribes moved there, and the rest of them established the Safavid state in Iran. Today, part of the important heritage they have given us is Gunchikhan Oghuz or Turkman, which is used in certain regions of Gunchikhan Anatolia - mainly in Igdir and Kars - as well as in Iran and Azerbaijan, which are now called Azerbaijani.
Source: M. Behramnejâd, "Karakoyunlus, Akkoyunlus: Turkmen Dynasties in Iran and Anatolia", p. 14 Aydın memmedov2000 ( talk) 22:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Why do we need a source for that? They pretty much controlled all of Iraq. Either we remove it completely or add ¨(popular)¨. Beshogur ( talk) 15:52, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
The king's title (right top) and the Arabic quotations are in gold.Should this be enough to prove Arabic is also used in their documents alongside Turkish and Persian? Beshogur ( talk) 08:51, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
@
HistoryofIran: what do you mean it's not a proof? From the diplomatic point of view, the document (perhaps called hukm "order", see addition p. 960) consists of (a) the king's titles and tamgha, (b) the text of the grant, and (c) the endorsement on the verso.
plus it's not some words: The chart uses an Arabic expression marfu al-qalam maqsur al-qadam
also various Quranic verses were used in the decree (see page 934).
Beshogur (
talk)
14:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Anyways, the source does not even mention that the Aq Qoyunlu ended in 1508 either, but 1501-03, just like vast majority of sources.which one?
You essentialy did your first edit, but added it somewhere else in the infobox.what do you mean, which edit? Beshogur ( talk) 15:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I had done edits to the German Wiki version of this article quite a while ago and would like to apply some of them on the English article. I suggest changing the structure of the article. Instead of including "Origins" and "Myth" into the "history" chapter, I would dedicate a special chapter for the aforementioned. The table of contents thus would look like this:
1) Origins and Myth 2) History a) Consolidation of Rule under Qara Osman b) Rise to Power under Uzun Hasan c) Stagnation and Downfall
Of course, I'd add all relevant sources, too. Is it possible/allowed that I make such a change? TengriKhagan ( talk) 12:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Despite what mentioned in the article "The name Aq Qoyunlu, literally meaning "[those with] white sheep"", Aq = white, Qoyun = Male sheep, lu = -y for making adjective from noun!
litteraly means One/Those who has/have withe sheeps!
There are more samples of using Livestock's name for naming tribes in Turkik tribes. For Instance, there are 2 main tribes in Qajar tribe: Davallo and Qoyunlu. Davvali (Deve + lu, means One who has Camels). Qoyunlu (Qoyun + lu, means One who has Sheeps).
Reference [1]
References
@ OrkhanScience: Hello. This source seems to fail WP:VER: Агаев, Юсиф; Ахмедов, Сабухи (2006). Ак-Коюнлу-Османская война. ISBN 5-8066-1372-0. What is it? Where it is from? It doesn't strike me as WP:RS either. -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 23:58, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Last time you blocked me on wikipedia, but the fact is that Azerbaijan with White Sheep is history. Ag Koyunlular spoke Azerbaijan language.I would make corrections again, but you will delete it again, so I will write it here. and please respect what I write and don't touch! In the early Middle Ages, white sheep were spread over a wide area in the South Caucasus, in the area between the Caucasus Mountains and the Araz River, around Goycha Lake, in the Alagoz grasslands, as well as in the southern regions of Azerbaijan, Eastern Anatolia, Western Iran, the Tigris and Euphrates valley
The Aggoyun people belonged to the Bayandur clan of the Oguz. Their names are given as "Bayandur Khan boys" in Turkic-language sources, and "Bayanduriyya" in Persian-language sources The word "Bayandur" in the ancient Turkic language means "a place that is always full of blessings". The name Bayandur comes from Bayandur, the eldest son of Goy Khan, one of the sons of Oghuz Khan. Ag goyunuls considered themselves descendants of Bayandur Khan.
At the time of Hamza Bey, the Bayandur stamp was stamped on Aggoyunlu coins. During the period of Uzun Hasan and his successors, the Bayandur stamp was again printed on coins as a sign of the state. This stamp was also used on the Ag goyunlu flag and inscriptions Beginning with long Hasan, the Aggoyunlu rulers were masters of science and art. Uzun Hasan gathered the most advanced scholars of his time in his palace. Up to 60 scholars worked in the ruler's private library. calligraphy (calligraphy) and miniature painting were among the attention-grabbing areas of Azerbaijani cultural life of this period. In the palace libraries of Aggoyunlu rulers, scientific, artistic, philosophical, religious, and historical works were copied, and miniatures were drawn on their manuscripts. 4 miniature illustrations drawn on the manuscript of poet Hidayat's "Divan" were compiled by Sultan Khalil in 1478. This manuscript copy is in AZERBAİJAN language During this period, skilled calligraphers such as Mirali Tabrizi, Mirabullah Tabrizi, Suleyman Ali Yaqubi, Nizamuddin Ali Ardabili, Jafar Tabrizi, Azhar Tabrizi, Abdurrahim al-Yaqubi worked in different cities of Azerbaijan. For a long time, a scientific assembly consisting of prominent scientists of the time was active in Hasan's palace. Uzun Hasan translated the Holy Quran into AZERBAİJAN langugae and wrote an Oghuzname called "Kitabi-Diyarbakriya" to Abu Bakr al-Tehrani, a prominent scientist of the time. Fazlullah ibn Ruzbehan Khunji came to Tabriz in 1487 in Sultan Yaqub's palace and started writing the history of Aggoyunlu stat. Kitabi Deda Gorgud Dastani, which is believed to have been written during the Ag Goyunlu , is also included in the list of intangible heritage of Azerbaijan by UNESCO.In 1998, the Republic of Azerbaijan and UNESCO nominated, and in 2000 celebrated, the "One thousand three hundredth anniversary of the epic poem Kitab-i Dede Qorqud". In 1999 the National Bank of Azerbaijan minted gold and silver commemorative coins for the 1,300th anniversary of the epic. The epic culture, folk tales and music of Dede Qorqud has been included in the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity of UNESCO in November 2018. 5.191.24.17 ( talk) 12:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
This is an extremely incorrect characterization of the Aq Qoyulu political organization. The Kengač was a council that decided on military and successive issues, it was made up of tribal chiefs AND amirs. The current table uses the term for tribal chiefs as if it was a separate military council, this is a hilarious misreading of a citation. I move that this be changed immediately. 2001:1970:5163:1200:0:0:0:7C5D ( talk) 03:12, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
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Fix typo. History section under Ahmad Beg line 7 from bottom, Change Lahija to Lahijan. 5.125.244.218 ( talk) 11:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
The article already mentions that Uzun Hasan assumed the title "King of Iran" and was referred to as such by Ottoman rulers. But this seems to be a general pattern among Aq Qoyunlu rulers as stated by Encyclopedia Iranica: