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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
In the current version of this article
In 1932 he started a newspaper named the "Ustaša – Herald of Croatian Revolutionaries" (Ustaša – vijesnik hrvatskih revolucionaraca). From its very first publication, Pavelić announced that the Ustaša would use violence as a means of achieving their goals:
"The dagger, revolver, machine gun and bomb, those are the bells that will ring the dawn and the RESURRECTION OF THE INDEPENDENT STATE OF CROATIA."
There were no instances of antisemitism in the newspaper.[36]
But in the reference
In the text signed by Poglavnik [The Leader], the name used later for Pavelić, which appeared in the first issue of the Ustaša, he stated: The dagger, revolver, machine gun and bomb, those are the bells that will ring the dawn and the RESURRECTION OF THE INDEPENDENT STATE OF CROATIA. There was not even the slightest indication of antisemitism in the Ustaša apparently for three reasons. First, the Ustashas had to confront a great enemy, the Belgrade regime, and they could and would not engage in other things. Secondly, at the beginning the Ustasha movement did not have the intellectual level to produce a wellrounded and consistent ideology: they knew only the basic tenets of Nazism and fascism. Nazi antisemitic argumentation demands a certain intellectual level that most of the Ustashas did not possess. Thirdly, one of the leading organisers of Ustasha cells was a Jew, named Vladimir Singer (his fellows, however, imprisoned him in 1941 and killed him). There were other Jews, too, who helped the Ustasha movement. However, in the following years Ustasha ideology grew more exclusive and the Jews came to be seen as second-rate citizens who should be killed en masse.
-- 68.98.165.98 ( talk) 19:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Not much done to really get a seriously written article. There are passages completely un-encyclopaedic as this one:
In his speeches to the Yugoslav Parliament he opposed Serbian nationalism and spoke in favor of Croatian independence. He was active with the youth of the Croatian Party of Rights and began contributing to the Starčević and Kvaternik newspapers.[19][better source needed]
Serbian members of the Yugoslav Parliament disliked him and when a Serbian member said "Good night" to him in parliament, Pavelić responded:
"Gentleman, I will be euphoric when I will be able to say to you 'good night'. I will be happy when all Croats can say 'good night' and thank you, for this 'party' we had here with you. I think that you will all be happy when you don't have Croats here any more."[25]
In 1927, Pavelić became the vice-president of the party.[19][better source needed]
Then I still see authors which are not historians nor scholars
Then scholars which were/are not historians
Then, overwhelmingly cited, local, provincial authors like:
-- Juraj Budak ( talk) 00:35, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
There are several dubious sentences and paragraphs in this article that are either unsourced or appear to be straight-out Ustase propaganda. Most that are sourced come from the Sedlar film. I am very uncomfortable with anything of this nature, as everything will eventually need a citation and I fully intend to get this article promoted to FA in time. I'll start a subsection for each one. Peacemaker67 ( talk) 23:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
"Pavelić and his government devoted great attention to culture.[citation needed] Although most literature was propaganda, many books did not have an ideological basis, which allowed Croatian culture to flourish. The Croatian National Theatre[disambiguation needed] received many world-famous actors as visitors. The major cultural milestone was the publication of the Croatian Encyclopedia, a work later forbidden under the Communist regime. Croatian sport also improved and in 1941 the Croatian Football Association joined FIFA.[18][need quotation to verify]"
Croatian Radiotelevision recently aired a new documentary describing the bizarre status of the Croatian National Theatre and similar art institutions in the NDH propaganda machine. It's a notable topic, but it's not covered properly, because IIRC the documentary made a peculiar point about how Pavelić did not actually attend a lot of that. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 14:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Meets B-Class criteria, see the assessment summary page link in the box at the top of this page for brief comments. GregorB ( talk) 13:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The application of this title to Pavelić is anachronistic, that title has been used in the 1980s in reference to his subordinate Andrija Artuković instead. I looked at http://www.google.com/search?q=%22butcher+of+the+balkans%22+pavelic&tbm=bks&tbo=1&pws=0 and found a 2009 reference to Pavelić, 2009 ref to Pavelić, 2001 ref to Artuković, 2010 Pavelić, 2008 Pavelić, 2011 reference to Slobodan Milošević, 2007 ref that has no preview and the snippet is inconclusive, 2009 ref to Pavelić, 2003 ref to Pavelić, 2004 ref to Pavelić, 1990 ref to Artuković, 2002 ref to Pavelić, 2003 ref to Pavelić, 1986 ref to Artuković, 2000 ref to Milošević. That fewer than a dozen semi-random recent books started referring to Pavelić this way is really fishy WRT WP:EXCEPTIONAL, and this topic has had the same problem before, with the story about the bucket of eyes. Pavelić's story is quite clearly horrible enough without misplaced hyperbole. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 22:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Knightserbia has added a name for APs assassin and two refs. I believe that all scholarly sources state he was shot by an unknown assassin. The two sources used are less than scholarly, I believe that we cannot state what they say and ignore what other sources say. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 07:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
This paragraph is a complete forgery of the facts.
"Because the Serbs revolted and acted against Croats and Muslims, Pavelić founded the Croatian Orthodox Church[94] with the aim of pacifying the Serbs.[95] However, the underlying ideology behind the creation of the Croatian Orthodox Church was connected to the ideas of Ante Starčević, who considered that Serbs were "Orthodox Croats",[94] and reflected a desire to create a Croatian state comprising three main religious groupings, Roman Catholic, Muslim and Croatian Orthodox.[95] There is some evidence that the status of Sarajevo Serbs improved after they joined the Croatian Orthodox Church in significant numbers.[96] Through both forcible and voluntary conversions between 1941 and 1945, 244,000 Serbs were re-baptised as Catholics.[31]"
1. The Serbs did not revolt and act against Croats and Muslims. They were pushed to the brink of physical extinction.
2. This is a sheer nonsense: "There is some evidence that the status of Sarajevo Serbs improved after they joined the Croatian Orthodox Church in significant numbers"
3. The introductory phrase: "Ante Pavelić (14 July 1889 – 28 December 1959) was a Croatian fascist leader and politician". Pavelic was a politician only between 1923 and 1927. The rest of his life he was a criminal and an outlaw. The justice fugitive between 1929 and 1941 sentenced to death by two governments, the head of a murderous Nazi regime for four years, and again fugitive and outlaw to the end of his life. -- Fight Forgery ( talk) 18:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does it say "several hundred thousand when offical estimates are around 300,000. Should be few hundred thousand.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/several
"being more than two but fewer than many in number or kind"
Minimal but likely numbers: Regarding Serbs, official numbers are 200 000 civilian, 150 000 military killed by the Ustashe regime and participation in a further number of deaths that were officially done by the Nazis. Killings of deported population not included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.147.117.96 ( talk) 17:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Ante Pavelić has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
add to category: Croatian Nazis Thejjjman ( talk) 19:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Article says Prince Aimone refused the crown of Croatia. This is not the case, he accepted, possibly reluctantly, and took the name Tomislav II. He never went to Croatia and exercised little power and influence but he was technically king until he abdicated in 1943. This information is available in the wikipedia article on Aimone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.103.124.199 ( talk) 03:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Smilja Avramov writes about this topic. Here is a source stating he was working for MI6 since 1926. So please add this reference to the sentence Although Pavelić reported himself to American intelligence, neither they nor their British counterparts arrested him. 212.200.65.113 ( talk) 17:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Is pure Serbian propaganha. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia. There were no "anti fascist Bosniaks" because they were Muslim Croats at the time. Serb fascists also killed Croats, Muslims and evemn Serbs who refused to join them. Don`t present chetnics like some antifascist guerilla.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.248.163 ( talk) 19:56, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
From Debórah Dwork, Robert Jan Pelt, Robert Jan Van Pelt: Holocaust: A history; Publisher W. W. Norton & Company, Sep 1, 2003 page 183
Krivi Put village is not situated in southern Lika, but in Western part. And even this can be discussed, because it is situated at border between Lika and Kvarner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.76.158.162 ( talk) 08:04, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
"Led by Andrija Artuković, the insurgency involved around 20 Ustaše members armed with Italian equipment. They attacked a police station and half an hour later pulled back to Velebit with no casualties." on the Velebit uprising page it says there was one casualty, but later on it repeats this statement. Should some fact-checking be done here? AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 19:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ante Pavelić's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "JUSP":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Croatian nationality seems incorrect. The Independent State of Croatia was never recognized as legitimate by anyone else by Axis powers. He was born in Bosnia and died before 1991 when Croatia actually became independent instead of once again and German-Italian puppet lap dog. Seems straight forward. Bosnian Croat makes sense. Or Yugoslav Croat as he lived and gained notoriety in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. OyMosby ( talk) 23:43, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability[my bolding]. In this specific case, his Croat ethnicity most certainly is relevant for Pavelić's notability. It should, however, not be mentioned instead of his Yugoslav nationality, but in addition to the nationality. The lede could say that he "was a Yugoslav Croatian lawyer", but the infobox cannot say that his nationality is Croatian. It will have to be "Nationality: Yugoslav". -- T*U ( talk) 19:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
I think this should be expanded upon in the article. When I have time I will get to it. Help would be appreciated. Unibrow69420 ( talk) 08:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Amanuensis Balkanicus: and @ OyMosby: the RfC has not been closed by an uninvolved editor, and multiple reverts are not the way to go. Also, AM, personal attacks are unacceptable. As a matter of fact, you too were once blocked as a "sockmaster", but that topic is not part of this content dispute, and as such should not be mentioned again. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 16:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the introduction describe Pavelić as a "Yugoslavian Croat", given that he never lived in the country while it was called Yugoslavia (and is notable largely due to his opposition to such a state) and "Croat" (as opposed to "Croatian") is an ethnic denomination, contrary to WP:ETHNICITY? Amanuensis Balkanicus ( talk) 14:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
... was a lawyer, politician and dictator who founded and headed the fascist ultranationalist organization known as the Ustaše in 1929 and governed the Independent State of Croatia, a fascist puppet state built out of parts of occupied Yugoslavia ..., thus avoiding the eternal nationality/ethnicity bickering. -- T*U ( talk) 07:14, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
I got curious about what RS had to say on this question and did some searches on Google Scholar following the close, namely searching for "[Yugoslav/Yugoslavian/Croat/Croatian] Ante Pavelić" and "Ante Pavelić was a [Yugoslav/Yugoslavian/Croat/Croatian]. Yugoslav and Yugoslavian didn't return anything. The Croat and Croatian searches returned:
Ante Pavelić was a Croat from Bosnia-Herzegovina
Croat nationalist Ante Pavelić, and later
Ante Pavelićwas a Croatian nationalist
the exiled Croatian Ante Pavelić
...among them the Croatian Ante Pavelić
Men like the Croatian Ante Pavelić
A somewhat similar adventure lived the Croatian Ante Pavelic
Among the better-known were the Croatian Ante Pavelic
the most infamous Hercegovin Croat, Ante Pavelic
such as the Croat Ante Pavelic
the Croat Ante Pavelic
were Croat Ante Pavelić
led by Croat Ante Pavelić
Consequently, while there may be room to quibble over whether "Croatian" or "Croat" is more appropriate, RS do not appear to refer to him as Yugoslavian. signed, Rosguill talk 21:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
A small edit (revert), but I'd like to receive community feedback: [19].
My initial edit does not qualify as "editorializing", but as necessary distancing of Wikipedia from Pavelić' conviction that there the socialist Yugoslavia's regime was "promoting Serbian hegemony". Now if the source explicitly adopts the view of Pavelić that this was indeed true (which I have no way to verify, as no citation is provided and I do not own this book), then the statement should be properly attributed to the relevant source Pavlowitch, Stevan K. (2008). Hitler's New Disorder: The Second World War in Yugoslavia. Columbia University Press.
It is a highly contentious statement. Other sources may (and indeed do) disagree with that. I do not agree with the current wording.
We shouldn't state a war criminal's personal views in Wikipedia's voice. This is one of the fundamental principles of NPOV editing practises. Polska jest Najważniejsza ( talk) 01:15, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
In the current version of this article
In 1932 he started a newspaper named the "Ustaša – Herald of Croatian Revolutionaries" (Ustaša – vijesnik hrvatskih revolucionaraca). From its very first publication, Pavelić announced that the Ustaša would use violence as a means of achieving their goals:
"The dagger, revolver, machine gun and bomb, those are the bells that will ring the dawn and the RESURRECTION OF THE INDEPENDENT STATE OF CROATIA."
There were no instances of antisemitism in the newspaper.[36]
But in the reference
In the text signed by Poglavnik [The Leader], the name used later for Pavelić, which appeared in the first issue of the Ustaša, he stated: The dagger, revolver, machine gun and bomb, those are the bells that will ring the dawn and the RESURRECTION OF THE INDEPENDENT STATE OF CROATIA. There was not even the slightest indication of antisemitism in the Ustaša apparently for three reasons. First, the Ustashas had to confront a great enemy, the Belgrade regime, and they could and would not engage in other things. Secondly, at the beginning the Ustasha movement did not have the intellectual level to produce a wellrounded and consistent ideology: they knew only the basic tenets of Nazism and fascism. Nazi antisemitic argumentation demands a certain intellectual level that most of the Ustashas did not possess. Thirdly, one of the leading organisers of Ustasha cells was a Jew, named Vladimir Singer (his fellows, however, imprisoned him in 1941 and killed him). There were other Jews, too, who helped the Ustasha movement. However, in the following years Ustasha ideology grew more exclusive and the Jews came to be seen as second-rate citizens who should be killed en masse.
-- 68.98.165.98 ( talk) 19:30, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Not much done to really get a seriously written article. There are passages completely un-encyclopaedic as this one:
In his speeches to the Yugoslav Parliament he opposed Serbian nationalism and spoke in favor of Croatian independence. He was active with the youth of the Croatian Party of Rights and began contributing to the Starčević and Kvaternik newspapers.[19][better source needed]
Serbian members of the Yugoslav Parliament disliked him and when a Serbian member said "Good night" to him in parliament, Pavelić responded:
"Gentleman, I will be euphoric when I will be able to say to you 'good night'. I will be happy when all Croats can say 'good night' and thank you, for this 'party' we had here with you. I think that you will all be happy when you don't have Croats here any more."[25]
In 1927, Pavelić became the vice-president of the party.[19][better source needed]
Then I still see authors which are not historians nor scholars
Then scholars which were/are not historians
Then, overwhelmingly cited, local, provincial authors like:
-- Juraj Budak ( talk) 00:35, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
There are several dubious sentences and paragraphs in this article that are either unsourced or appear to be straight-out Ustase propaganda. Most that are sourced come from the Sedlar film. I am very uncomfortable with anything of this nature, as everything will eventually need a citation and I fully intend to get this article promoted to FA in time. I'll start a subsection for each one. Peacemaker67 ( talk) 23:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
"Pavelić and his government devoted great attention to culture.[citation needed] Although most literature was propaganda, many books did not have an ideological basis, which allowed Croatian culture to flourish. The Croatian National Theatre[disambiguation needed] received many world-famous actors as visitors. The major cultural milestone was the publication of the Croatian Encyclopedia, a work later forbidden under the Communist regime. Croatian sport also improved and in 1941 the Croatian Football Association joined FIFA.[18][need quotation to verify]"
Croatian Radiotelevision recently aired a new documentary describing the bizarre status of the Croatian National Theatre and similar art institutions in the NDH propaganda machine. It's a notable topic, but it's not covered properly, because IIRC the documentary made a peculiar point about how Pavelić did not actually attend a lot of that. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 14:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Meets B-Class criteria, see the assessment summary page link in the box at the top of this page for brief comments. GregorB ( talk) 13:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The application of this title to Pavelić is anachronistic, that title has been used in the 1980s in reference to his subordinate Andrija Artuković instead. I looked at http://www.google.com/search?q=%22butcher+of+the+balkans%22+pavelic&tbm=bks&tbo=1&pws=0 and found a 2009 reference to Pavelić, 2009 ref to Pavelić, 2001 ref to Artuković, 2010 Pavelić, 2008 Pavelić, 2011 reference to Slobodan Milošević, 2007 ref that has no preview and the snippet is inconclusive, 2009 ref to Pavelić, 2003 ref to Pavelić, 2004 ref to Pavelić, 1990 ref to Artuković, 2002 ref to Pavelić, 2003 ref to Pavelić, 1986 ref to Artuković, 2000 ref to Milošević. That fewer than a dozen semi-random recent books started referring to Pavelić this way is really fishy WRT WP:EXCEPTIONAL, and this topic has had the same problem before, with the story about the bucket of eyes. Pavelić's story is quite clearly horrible enough without misplaced hyperbole. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 22:37, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Knightserbia has added a name for APs assassin and two refs. I believe that all scholarly sources state he was shot by an unknown assassin. The two sources used are less than scholarly, I believe that we cannot state what they say and ignore what other sources say. Peacemaker67 ( send... over) 07:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
This paragraph is a complete forgery of the facts.
"Because the Serbs revolted and acted against Croats and Muslims, Pavelić founded the Croatian Orthodox Church[94] with the aim of pacifying the Serbs.[95] However, the underlying ideology behind the creation of the Croatian Orthodox Church was connected to the ideas of Ante Starčević, who considered that Serbs were "Orthodox Croats",[94] and reflected a desire to create a Croatian state comprising three main religious groupings, Roman Catholic, Muslim and Croatian Orthodox.[95] There is some evidence that the status of Sarajevo Serbs improved after they joined the Croatian Orthodox Church in significant numbers.[96] Through both forcible and voluntary conversions between 1941 and 1945, 244,000 Serbs were re-baptised as Catholics.[31]"
1. The Serbs did not revolt and act against Croats and Muslims. They were pushed to the brink of physical extinction.
2. This is a sheer nonsense: "There is some evidence that the status of Sarajevo Serbs improved after they joined the Croatian Orthodox Church in significant numbers"
3. The introductory phrase: "Ante Pavelić (14 July 1889 – 28 December 1959) was a Croatian fascist leader and politician". Pavelic was a politician only between 1923 and 1927. The rest of his life he was a criminal and an outlaw. The justice fugitive between 1929 and 1941 sentenced to death by two governments, the head of a murderous Nazi regime for four years, and again fugitive and outlaw to the end of his life. -- Fight Forgery ( talk) 18:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does it say "several hundred thousand when offical estimates are around 300,000. Should be few hundred thousand.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/several
"being more than two but fewer than many in number or kind"
Minimal but likely numbers: Regarding Serbs, official numbers are 200 000 civilian, 150 000 military killed by the Ustashe regime and participation in a further number of deaths that were officially done by the Nazis. Killings of deported population not included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.147.117.96 ( talk) 17:07, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Ante Pavelić has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
add to category: Croatian Nazis Thejjjman ( talk) 19:05, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Article says Prince Aimone refused the crown of Croatia. This is not the case, he accepted, possibly reluctantly, and took the name Tomislav II. He never went to Croatia and exercised little power and influence but he was technically king until he abdicated in 1943. This information is available in the wikipedia article on Aimone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.103.124.199 ( talk) 03:48, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
Smilja Avramov writes about this topic. Here is a source stating he was working for MI6 since 1926. So please add this reference to the sentence Although Pavelić reported himself to American intelligence, neither they nor their British counterparts arrested him. 212.200.65.113 ( talk) 17:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Is pure Serbian propaganha. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia. There were no "anti fascist Bosniaks" because they were Muslim Croats at the time. Serb fascists also killed Croats, Muslims and evemn Serbs who refused to join them. Don`t present chetnics like some antifascist guerilla.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.248.163 ( talk) 19:56, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
From Debórah Dwork, Robert Jan Pelt, Robert Jan Van Pelt: Holocaust: A history; Publisher W. W. Norton & Company, Sep 1, 2003 page 183
Krivi Put village is not situated in southern Lika, but in Western part. And even this can be discussed, because it is situated at border between Lika and Kvarner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.76.158.162 ( talk) 08:04, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
"Led by Andrija Artuković, the insurgency involved around 20 Ustaše members armed with Italian equipment. They attacked a police station and half an hour later pulled back to Velebit with no casualties." on the Velebit uprising page it says there was one casualty, but later on it repeats this statement. Should some fact-checking be done here? AlessandroTiandelli333 ( talk) 19:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ante Pavelić's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "JUSP":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 22:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Croatian nationality seems incorrect. The Independent State of Croatia was never recognized as legitimate by anyone else by Axis powers. He was born in Bosnia and died before 1991 when Croatia actually became independent instead of once again and German-Italian puppet lap dog. Seems straight forward. Bosnian Croat makes sense. Or Yugoslav Croat as he lived and gained notoriety in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. OyMosby ( talk) 23:43, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability[my bolding]. In this specific case, his Croat ethnicity most certainly is relevant for Pavelić's notability. It should, however, not be mentioned instead of his Yugoslav nationality, but in addition to the nationality. The lede could say that he "was a Yugoslav Croatian lawyer", but the infobox cannot say that his nationality is Croatian. It will have to be "Nationality: Yugoslav". -- T*U ( talk) 19:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
I think this should be expanded upon in the article. When I have time I will get to it. Help would be appreciated. Unibrow69420 ( talk) 08:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Amanuensis Balkanicus: and @ OyMosby: the RfC has not been closed by an uninvolved editor, and multiple reverts are not the way to go. Also, AM, personal attacks are unacceptable. As a matter of fact, you too were once blocked as a "sockmaster", but that topic is not part of this content dispute, and as such should not be mentioned again. Ktrimi991 ( talk) 16:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the introduction describe Pavelić as a "Yugoslavian Croat", given that he never lived in the country while it was called Yugoslavia (and is notable largely due to his opposition to such a state) and "Croat" (as opposed to "Croatian") is an ethnic denomination, contrary to WP:ETHNICITY? Amanuensis Balkanicus ( talk) 14:58, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
... was a lawyer, politician and dictator who founded and headed the fascist ultranationalist organization known as the Ustaše in 1929 and governed the Independent State of Croatia, a fascist puppet state built out of parts of occupied Yugoslavia ..., thus avoiding the eternal nationality/ethnicity bickering. -- T*U ( talk) 07:14, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
I got curious about what RS had to say on this question and did some searches on Google Scholar following the close, namely searching for "[Yugoslav/Yugoslavian/Croat/Croatian] Ante Pavelić" and "Ante Pavelić was a [Yugoslav/Yugoslavian/Croat/Croatian]. Yugoslav and Yugoslavian didn't return anything. The Croat and Croatian searches returned:
Ante Pavelić was a Croat from Bosnia-Herzegovina
Croat nationalist Ante Pavelić, and later
Ante Pavelićwas a Croatian nationalist
the exiled Croatian Ante Pavelić
...among them the Croatian Ante Pavelić
Men like the Croatian Ante Pavelić
A somewhat similar adventure lived the Croatian Ante Pavelic
Among the better-known were the Croatian Ante Pavelic
the most infamous Hercegovin Croat, Ante Pavelic
such as the Croat Ante Pavelic
the Croat Ante Pavelic
were Croat Ante Pavelić
led by Croat Ante Pavelić
Consequently, while there may be room to quibble over whether "Croatian" or "Croat" is more appropriate, RS do not appear to refer to him as Yugoslavian. signed, Rosguill talk 21:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
A small edit (revert), but I'd like to receive community feedback: [19].
My initial edit does not qualify as "editorializing", but as necessary distancing of Wikipedia from Pavelić' conviction that there the socialist Yugoslavia's regime was "promoting Serbian hegemony". Now if the source explicitly adopts the view of Pavelić that this was indeed true (which I have no way to verify, as no citation is provided and I do not own this book), then the statement should be properly attributed to the relevant source Pavlowitch, Stevan K. (2008). Hitler's New Disorder: The Second World War in Yugoslavia. Columbia University Press.
It is a highly contentious statement. Other sources may (and indeed do) disagree with that. I do not agree with the current wording.
We shouldn't state a war criminal's personal views in Wikipedia's voice. This is one of the fundamental principles of NPOV editing practises. Polska jest Najważniejsza ( talk) 01:15, 10 October 2021 (UTC)