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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2021 and 14 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Blair Mof.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I edited out this statement, which was flagged, "Freud is said to refer to her in his diaries more than others in the family. [citation needed]". If anyone can find a trustworthy source to affirm this, that'd be great!
Kaity Sherksnas ( talk) 17:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
I love her quotes!
Look, there is another one, quotation from a letter, very beautiful, too:
"Dear John ..., You asked me what I consider essential personal qualities in a future psychoanalyst. The answer is comparatively simple. If you want to be a real psychoanalyst you have to have a great love of the truth, scientific truth as well as personal truth, and you have to place this appreciation of truth higher than any discomfort at meeting unpleasant facts, whether they belong to the world outside or to your own inner person.
Further, I think that a psychoanalyst should have...interests...beyond the limits of the medical field...in facts that belong to sociology, religion, literature, ,[and] history,...[otherwise]his outlook on...his patient will remain too narrow. This point contains...the necessary preparations beyond the requirements made on candidates of psychoanalysis in the institutes. You ought to be a great reader and become aquainted with the literature of many countries and cultures. In the great literary figures you will find people who know at least as much of human nature as the psychiatrists and psychologists try to do.
Does that answer your question?
Yours sincerely, Anna Freud
Austerlitz 88.72.3.87 15:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
written by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson
From a discussion with Sigmund Freud’s daughter:
“Terri is Jewish, she survived the Warsaw Ghetto, and I am also Jewish, and both of us have been immersed in holocaust literature. We are puzzled why so little has been written about the holocaust in psychoanalysis”. “I am puzzled by your puzzlement”, she replied immediately. “Why should psychoanalysts in particular write about the war?” “Because so many Jewish analysts are refugees from Nazism”. “But that has nothing to do with psychoanalysis”. “But doesn’t trauma play a central role in analytic theory?” Anna Freud shrugged her shoulders, apparently dismissing my concerns as uninteresting. I was deeply disappointed. Anna Freud was Jewish [...]. I tried again. “I know that your father never wrote anything about the Nazis, but he must have talked to you about it. What did he say?” She simply shrugged her shoulders, and sat silently. I could not tell if she meant that he had told her nothing, or if she did not intend to tell me anything (pages 154f).
About motivation
While working at Anna Freud's house, I found an unpublished letter in which he [Freud] told Fliess, less than two weeks after he gave the paper [The Aetiology of Hysteria], "I am as isolated as you could wish me to be: the word has been given out to abandon me, and a void is forming around me." Both the immediate response to the paper, and the subsequent response were ones that Freud had not anticipated: his colleagues thought he was crazy to believe his women patients. This was bound to have a disastrous impact on a young physician with a growing family, eager to open a neurological/psychiatric clinical practice. Where were his referrals to come from, if his colleagues thought he was completely daft? I made this point to Anna Freud. "Do you believe", I said, "that this could have had anything to do with his later abandonment of the theory?" "No." She was adamant. "But tell me, Miss Freud, why did you omit this passage from your published edition of the letters?" "Because it makes my father sound so paranoid," was her response. "But if it was the truth, then he was not paranoid, he was simply perceptive." (pages 175, 176)
I wanted to put the quotation of Anna Freud's letter on the mainpage and I succeeded doing so. But I also wanted to create a footnote with the source of this quotation and I didn't succeed. Even worse the rest of the page has been deleted. Can somebody please help correcting this?
I managed to get the rest of the page back, but with the footnote it still does not work.
It is still not like usual on wikipedia, this footnote.
Somebody had put the family name (?) Kilburn to John, I deleted it. Please tell whether you know the name and where from.
Some information:
Chapter Eight of Masson's book Final Analysis is very interesting information, it's entitled Anna Freud and I. Austerlitz 88.72.24.0 14:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Should also add, Anna Freud was a lifelong virgin. Her battles with Reich. Her obsession with conforming with society. Finally, the fact of the suicide and alcohol abuse deaths of her charges.
Agreed... I have just finished watching Part II of the BBC Documentary "Century of the Self." In it, Anna Freud is painted as enormously influential on a national scale in Washington DC and Hollywood, in the era of the Cold War. There was a deliberate architecture of psychology, starting with the National Mental health Act of 1946 signed by Pres. Truman, used to train a generation to conform to society, in the theory that this would strengthen the ego in the inner battle to control irrational and dangerous subconcious forces. This theory was used extensively and changed the character of american society for many years. It was only in the 1960's, with several specific events, that this architecture was seriously questioned, and then collapsed. Anna Freud was and her adherents were central to this entire construct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.13.78 ( talk)
So? Zezen ( talk) 08:40, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
The article is currently in very poor condition, and needs extensive editing... someone, please? 85.64.24.65 ( talk) 15:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Someone wrote "What a twat!" Is there anyone who can remove that because I can't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.209.19.224 ( talk) 08:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Were she and Dorothy Burlingham a lesbian couple? Nietzsche 2 ( talk) 04:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Veryscarymary ( talk) 19:06, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I plan to re-introduce the sources about théoretical homophobia of psychoanalitic mouvement (IPA) and especially lesbiannisme and paradoxical homophobia of anna freud.-- G de gonjasufi ( talk) 12:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Journalist Matthew Campbell reports that according to Roudinesco, she was accused, like other followers of Freud, of homophobia. [1]
Albert Ledorze thinks that unlike her father, Anna Freud, who is nevertheless a lesbian, is convinced that homosexuality is a "perversion
[2]" or a " disease
[3]”; she opposes the exercise of psychoanalysis by homosexuals.
-- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 01:07, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Here you state your wrong thinking about sources. You do not prove that these are sources of non-specialists and moreover you differ from sources in English (of specialists). Your personal opinion is not an argument or proof... -- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 19:28, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
References
A major figure such as Anna Freud deserves a much better article than this unsourced and badly written rubbish. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 11:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed! If I wasn't mired in my own psychiatric residency, I'd tackle the rewrite myself. The grammar and sentence construction is abominable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.215.104 ( talk) 00:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
This is poor. indeed. Alas, can anyone write about the founders of psychoanalysis without psychoanalyzing everything they did? I agree this is rubbish, but the topic lends itself to such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dychejs ( talk • contribs) 00:26, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Anna Freud has offered a Child Therapy Training Programm in Hampstead following World War II, Erna Furman has been a graduate of this programm. There has been another programm at Tavistock.
I have no idea why the book was listed under several authors. The bibliography data page of this book seen in Google Books clearly shows a single author. Bar-abban ( talk) 22:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
To be used for the article:
Friedmann, M. (1988). The Hampstead Clinic Nursery: The First 20 Years (1957 - 1978). Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 11:277-287.
Salo, F., Friedmann, M. (1988). The Runaway Bunny Mother: The Long-Term Influence of the Nursery School Experience. Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 11:53-73.
Friedmann, M. (1986). Alice Goldberger. Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 9:313-314
mentioned on the Erna Furman site: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=g0377k4352205581&size=largest
mentioned on the Erna Furman site: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=g0377k4352205581&size=largest
Memory, Self and the Peer Group in Six Young Survivors of Terezin (by Stefanie Schamess)
Bul. Anna Freud Centre: is there a list of the Bulletins existing?
In external references, the following link is a page that no longer contains the cited information: http://knol.google.com/k/tom-butler-bowdon/the-ego-and-the-mechanisms-of-defense/2l1paxxoh5qsf/24# — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kathon ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
It isn't mentioned whether or not she ever took up British citizenship or whether she, like her nephews Lucian and Clement, was ever offered a British honour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AloysiusZimmerfloss ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The article is written in a very promotional tone, and contains little or no mention of criticism of her work. DuncanHill ( talk) 15:14, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
As any first year psych student will be able to confirm, clinical psychologists view psychoanalysis as subjective, incomplete and a case study of many of the patients treated by Sigmund and Anna reveals that its results were generally ineffective to adverse. Therefore, in order to avoid misleading the layman and convey the prevailing expert consensus, it is essential to note in the Lede that psychoanalysis is indeed considered defunct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.50.0.255 ( talk) 04:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
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A biographer of Dorothy who is also her grandson has found evidence that she and Anna were lovers. I've added a citation about this to the article, and the biography to the list of additional references. The biography was favorably reviewed in The New Yorker. The citation is to an interview with the grandson in a major metropolitan newspaper. The interviewer, Isacc Tylim, is a Fellow of the Institute for Psychoanalytic Training and Research, an additional level of reliability.
Adding this information should not be controversial. While it is clear that Anna and Dorothy did wish that this information not be known in their lifetimes, this is more a comment on the times in which they lived than the value they themselves placed on their relationship.
In the present day, it would be a greater slur to consider that the intimate nature of their relationship should be kept hidden than to note it openly. -- Pechmerle ( talk) 08:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Yes. Let us not gossip. Zezen ( talk) 08:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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"It might be indeed said..." , "it may still be salutary to heed..." -> shoot them all. Zezen ( talk) 08:39, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
I gave some details about the suicide of Anna Frank's "step daughter" (Mary) and the alcoholism and early death of her "step son" (Robert). This was removed by Almanacer on the grounds of a supposedly unreliable citation at odds with "reliable sources". The citation given was to a BBC documentary (Adam Curtis - The century of the Self -part 2) and in particular an interview with Robert Burlingham's son Michael. Given the importance of Anna Frank in the development of child psychotherapy, the fact that her lifelong intervention had such ineffective outcomes with her own step children is surely of interest, removing such references seems more a case of preserving her prestige than making the text more reliable. I must question what the "reliable sources" are that deny Mary's suicide, and why a family member speaking on camera in a BBC documentary is not a "reliable source"? DH987 ( talk) 19:07, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
This is the full quote. Page 63 of the first seminar.
"Someone close to us in the Société, seized at the 1950 Congress, I know not why, with a lyrical impulse - this dear friend - called Anna Freud the plumb-line of psychoanalysis. Well, the plumb-line doesn't make a building. A number of other instruments are needed, a water-level for instance. But in the end the plumb-line isn't that bad - it allows us to gauge the vertical of certain problems."
If im not missing something then he didn't call her the plumb line of psychoanalysis himself, he mentions someone else who did. I don't know how to phrase it in the article though...
Nothing on this subject ? T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 21:22, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Monroe underwent psychoanalysis regularly from 1955 until her death. Her analysts were psychiatrists Margaret Hohenberg (1955–57), Anna Freud (1957), Marianne Kris (1957–61), and Ralph Greenson (1960–62)." 86.187.236.59 ( talk) 21:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
.-- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 00:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Will we make a good article based on missing hagiopgraphic biographies and hindsight and criticism of the psychoanalytical sect ? T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 03:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
Psychoanalysis is NOT psychology (at all) ! T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 03:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
+
Freud (S or A) is (are) not a psychologist.
Freud has no training in psychology.
Freud does not have any degree in psychology.
Freud's writings and works are not psychology. Facts. -- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 07:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Michel Onfray is not a reliable source for a diagnosis of anorexia or depression for Anna Freud in 1912. Tutocugno, did a qualified person at the time make that diagnosis, or anyone since apart from Onfray? If there is someone, then maybe we can have a discussion about whether to say Anna was suffering from anorexia. If not it is just Onfray's assertion and should not be used as a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice. The other source you used—Young-Bruehl—makes a tentative hypothetical suggestion of a mild eating disturbance, and in fact alludes to the absence of supporting information suggesting anorexia. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 06:36, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
If Freud makes a speculative claim about someone based on virtually no evidence, we should not present that as a statement of fact on a biographical page. But you're saying we should do that for Onfray, even though he has no professional experience or expertise in the field. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 23:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Anna Freud article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2021 and 14 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Blair Mof.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I edited out this statement, which was flagged, "Freud is said to refer to her in his diaries more than others in the family. [citation needed]". If anyone can find a trustworthy source to affirm this, that'd be great!
Kaity Sherksnas ( talk) 17:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
I love her quotes!
Look, there is another one, quotation from a letter, very beautiful, too:
"Dear John ..., You asked me what I consider essential personal qualities in a future psychoanalyst. The answer is comparatively simple. If you want to be a real psychoanalyst you have to have a great love of the truth, scientific truth as well as personal truth, and you have to place this appreciation of truth higher than any discomfort at meeting unpleasant facts, whether they belong to the world outside or to your own inner person.
Further, I think that a psychoanalyst should have...interests...beyond the limits of the medical field...in facts that belong to sociology, religion, literature, ,[and] history,...[otherwise]his outlook on...his patient will remain too narrow. This point contains...the necessary preparations beyond the requirements made on candidates of psychoanalysis in the institutes. You ought to be a great reader and become aquainted with the literature of many countries and cultures. In the great literary figures you will find people who know at least as much of human nature as the psychiatrists and psychologists try to do.
Does that answer your question?
Yours sincerely, Anna Freud
Austerlitz 88.72.3.87 15:38, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
written by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson
From a discussion with Sigmund Freud’s daughter:
“Terri is Jewish, she survived the Warsaw Ghetto, and I am also Jewish, and both of us have been immersed in holocaust literature. We are puzzled why so little has been written about the holocaust in psychoanalysis”. “I am puzzled by your puzzlement”, she replied immediately. “Why should psychoanalysts in particular write about the war?” “Because so many Jewish analysts are refugees from Nazism”. “But that has nothing to do with psychoanalysis”. “But doesn’t trauma play a central role in analytic theory?” Anna Freud shrugged her shoulders, apparently dismissing my concerns as uninteresting. I was deeply disappointed. Anna Freud was Jewish [...]. I tried again. “I know that your father never wrote anything about the Nazis, but he must have talked to you about it. What did he say?” She simply shrugged her shoulders, and sat silently. I could not tell if she meant that he had told her nothing, or if she did not intend to tell me anything (pages 154f).
About motivation
While working at Anna Freud's house, I found an unpublished letter in which he [Freud] told Fliess, less than two weeks after he gave the paper [The Aetiology of Hysteria], "I am as isolated as you could wish me to be: the word has been given out to abandon me, and a void is forming around me." Both the immediate response to the paper, and the subsequent response were ones that Freud had not anticipated: his colleagues thought he was crazy to believe his women patients. This was bound to have a disastrous impact on a young physician with a growing family, eager to open a neurological/psychiatric clinical practice. Where were his referrals to come from, if his colleagues thought he was completely daft? I made this point to Anna Freud. "Do you believe", I said, "that this could have had anything to do with his later abandonment of the theory?" "No." She was adamant. "But tell me, Miss Freud, why did you omit this passage from your published edition of the letters?" "Because it makes my father sound so paranoid," was her response. "But if it was the truth, then he was not paranoid, he was simply perceptive." (pages 175, 176)
I wanted to put the quotation of Anna Freud's letter on the mainpage and I succeeded doing so. But I also wanted to create a footnote with the source of this quotation and I didn't succeed. Even worse the rest of the page has been deleted. Can somebody please help correcting this?
I managed to get the rest of the page back, but with the footnote it still does not work.
It is still not like usual on wikipedia, this footnote.
Somebody had put the family name (?) Kilburn to John, I deleted it. Please tell whether you know the name and where from.
Some information:
Chapter Eight of Masson's book Final Analysis is very interesting information, it's entitled Anna Freud and I. Austerlitz 88.72.24.0 14:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Should also add, Anna Freud was a lifelong virgin. Her battles with Reich. Her obsession with conforming with society. Finally, the fact of the suicide and alcohol abuse deaths of her charges.
Agreed... I have just finished watching Part II of the BBC Documentary "Century of the Self." In it, Anna Freud is painted as enormously influential on a national scale in Washington DC and Hollywood, in the era of the Cold War. There was a deliberate architecture of psychology, starting with the National Mental health Act of 1946 signed by Pres. Truman, used to train a generation to conform to society, in the theory that this would strengthen the ego in the inner battle to control irrational and dangerous subconcious forces. This theory was used extensively and changed the character of american society for many years. It was only in the 1960's, with several specific events, that this architecture was seriously questioned, and then collapsed. Anna Freud was and her adherents were central to this entire construct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.13.78 ( talk)
So? Zezen ( talk) 08:40, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
The article is currently in very poor condition, and needs extensive editing... someone, please? 85.64.24.65 ( talk) 15:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Someone wrote "What a twat!" Is there anyone who can remove that because I can't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.209.19.224 ( talk) 08:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Were she and Dorothy Burlingham a lesbian couple? Nietzsche 2 ( talk) 04:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Veryscarymary ( talk) 19:06, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
I plan to re-introduce the sources about théoretical homophobia of psychoanalitic mouvement (IPA) and especially lesbiannisme and paradoxical homophobia of anna freud.-- G de gonjasufi ( talk) 12:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Journalist Matthew Campbell reports that according to Roudinesco, she was accused, like other followers of Freud, of homophobia. [1]
Albert Ledorze thinks that unlike her father, Anna Freud, who is nevertheless a lesbian, is convinced that homosexuality is a "perversion
[2]" or a " disease
[3]”; she opposes the exercise of psychoanalysis by homosexuals.
-- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 01:07, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Here you state your wrong thinking about sources. You do not prove that these are sources of non-specialists and moreover you differ from sources in English (of specialists). Your personal opinion is not an argument or proof... -- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 19:28, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
References
A major figure such as Anna Freud deserves a much better article than this unsourced and badly written rubbish. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 11:41, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed! If I wasn't mired in my own psychiatric residency, I'd tackle the rewrite myself. The grammar and sentence construction is abominable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.215.104 ( talk) 00:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
This is poor. indeed. Alas, can anyone write about the founders of psychoanalysis without psychoanalyzing everything they did? I agree this is rubbish, but the topic lends itself to such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dychejs ( talk • contribs) 00:26, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Anna Freud has offered a Child Therapy Training Programm in Hampstead following World War II, Erna Furman has been a graduate of this programm. There has been another programm at Tavistock.
I have no idea why the book was listed under several authors. The bibliography data page of this book seen in Google Books clearly shows a single author. Bar-abban ( talk) 22:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
To be used for the article:
Friedmann, M. (1988). The Hampstead Clinic Nursery: The First 20 Years (1957 - 1978). Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 11:277-287.
Salo, F., Friedmann, M. (1988). The Runaway Bunny Mother: The Long-Term Influence of the Nursery School Experience. Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 11:53-73.
Friedmann, M. (1986). Alice Goldberger. Bul. Anna Freud Centre, 9:313-314
mentioned on the Erna Furman site: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=g0377k4352205581&size=largest
mentioned on the Erna Furman site: http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=g0377k4352205581&size=largest
Memory, Self and the Peer Group in Six Young Survivors of Terezin (by Stefanie Schamess)
Bul. Anna Freud Centre: is there a list of the Bulletins existing?
In external references, the following link is a page that no longer contains the cited information: http://knol.google.com/k/tom-butler-bowdon/the-ego-and-the-mechanisms-of-defense/2l1paxxoh5qsf/24# — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kathon ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
It isn't mentioned whether or not she ever took up British citizenship or whether she, like her nephews Lucian and Clement, was ever offered a British honour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AloysiusZimmerfloss ( talk • contribs) 03:41, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
The article is written in a very promotional tone, and contains little or no mention of criticism of her work. DuncanHill ( talk) 15:14, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
As any first year psych student will be able to confirm, clinical psychologists view psychoanalysis as subjective, incomplete and a case study of many of the patients treated by Sigmund and Anna reveals that its results were generally ineffective to adverse. Therefore, in order to avoid misleading the layman and convey the prevailing expert consensus, it is essential to note in the Lede that psychoanalysis is indeed considered defunct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.50.0.255 ( talk) 04:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:38, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
A biographer of Dorothy who is also her grandson has found evidence that she and Anna were lovers. I've added a citation about this to the article, and the biography to the list of additional references. The biography was favorably reviewed in The New Yorker. The citation is to an interview with the grandson in a major metropolitan newspaper. The interviewer, Isacc Tylim, is a Fellow of the Institute for Psychoanalytic Training and Research, an additional level of reliability.
Adding this information should not be controversial. While it is clear that Anna and Dorothy did wish that this information not be known in their lifetimes, this is more a comment on the times in which they lived than the value they themselves placed on their relationship.
In the present day, it would be a greater slur to consider that the intimate nature of their relationship should be kept hidden than to note it openly. -- Pechmerle ( talk) 08:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Yes. Let us not gossip. Zezen ( talk) 08:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
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"It might be indeed said..." , "it may still be salutary to heed..." -> shoot them all. Zezen ( talk) 08:39, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
I gave some details about the suicide of Anna Frank's "step daughter" (Mary) and the alcoholism and early death of her "step son" (Robert). This was removed by Almanacer on the grounds of a supposedly unreliable citation at odds with "reliable sources". The citation given was to a BBC documentary (Adam Curtis - The century of the Self -part 2) and in particular an interview with Robert Burlingham's son Michael. Given the importance of Anna Frank in the development of child psychotherapy, the fact that her lifelong intervention had such ineffective outcomes with her own step children is surely of interest, removing such references seems more a case of preserving her prestige than making the text more reliable. I must question what the "reliable sources" are that deny Mary's suicide, and why a family member speaking on camera in a BBC documentary is not a "reliable source"? DH987 ( talk) 19:07, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
This is the full quote. Page 63 of the first seminar.
"Someone close to us in the Société, seized at the 1950 Congress, I know not why, with a lyrical impulse - this dear friend - called Anna Freud the plumb-line of psychoanalysis. Well, the plumb-line doesn't make a building. A number of other instruments are needed, a water-level for instance. But in the end the plumb-line isn't that bad - it allows us to gauge the vertical of certain problems."
If im not missing something then he didn't call her the plumb line of psychoanalysis himself, he mentions someone else who did. I don't know how to phrase it in the article though...
Nothing on this subject ? T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 21:22, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Monroe underwent psychoanalysis regularly from 1955 until her death. Her analysts were psychiatrists Margaret Hohenberg (1955–57), Anna Freud (1957), Marianne Kris (1957–61), and Ralph Greenson (1960–62)." 86.187.236.59 ( talk) 21:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
.-- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 00:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Will we make a good article based on missing hagiopgraphic biographies and hindsight and criticism of the psychoanalytical sect ? T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 03:37, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
Psychoanalysis is NOT psychology (at all) ! T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 03:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
+
Freud (S or A) is (are) not a psychologist.
Freud has no training in psychology.
Freud does not have any degree in psychology.
Freud's writings and works are not psychology. Facts. -- T0t0 Cugn0 ( talk) 07:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Michel Onfray is not a reliable source for a diagnosis of anorexia or depression for Anna Freud in 1912. Tutocugno, did a qualified person at the time make that diagnosis, or anyone since apart from Onfray? If there is someone, then maybe we can have a discussion about whether to say Anna was suffering from anorexia. If not it is just Onfray's assertion and should not be used as a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice. The other source you used—Young-Bruehl—makes a tentative hypothetical suggestion of a mild eating disturbance, and in fact alludes to the absence of supporting information suggesting anorexia. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 06:36, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
If Freud makes a speculative claim about someone based on virtually no evidence, we should not present that as a statement of fact on a biographical page. But you're saying we should do that for Onfray, even though he has no professional experience or expertise in the field. Harold the Sheep ( talk) 23:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
References