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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 January 2019 and 19 April 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Ski-Doo800,
Luke2639,
AaronNeumeyer2.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Cannon98,
Askarzenski.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:11, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I thought strawberries came from the New World and that they were not cultivated until the 1700s. How did the ancient Romans eat them? That seems made up. Source?
If memory serves this is from Apicius (repeated by the well known Harold McGee), but I thought this was more of a chemistry experiment than something you would actually drink after "transforming" it. -- Chinasaur 06:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
What about vomitoriums (vomitoria?) ? The Trolls of Navarone 20:36, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I recall, on a visit to the Roman city of Volubilis in Morocco, finding a "Vomitorium" marked on the floor plan, and it most certainly was not a passage, but something the size and shape of a fireplace, so a good size for a basin. - While we're at it, any news of modern-day "barf basins"? Only recently, I saw a porcelain bowl with handles and a tap mounted at about 1,5 metres above the ground in a restaurant loo in Zell, Germany, and could think of no other purpose for it than as a "vomitorium" (all the more so given that said town is known for booze tourism). -- Humphrey20020 09:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
List of missing translations in the article:
Cat 19:45, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Meerbarbe = red mullet, corrected that
Blutwurst : dictionary says blood sausage or black pudding; I think blood sausage is better to use here because as far as i know
black pudding is a name for a specific british blood sausage that not everyone knows and "blood sausage" is more descriptive. German Blutwurst often means a specific sausage (which is only lots of clotted blood with pieces of pork fat in it, of course nicely spiced) but it's also used for all sausages made with blood.
Thanks for the vomitorium stuff, i'll add that to the german article
look what i've just found:
http://www.dict.leo.org
it's run by a german university, the best and easiest to use online dictionary i've seen so far. may be the link should be on the translations page
Tenar
I'd like to add the phrase "from eggs to apples" (ab ovo usque ad mala), but in which section? starters or desserts? -- Lisa Paul 20:56, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There are three more as yet untranslated paragraphs in the Bestandteile der Hauptmahlzeit section of the German article. I'll shortly be giving them a go unless anyone else wants to get there first. -- Picapica 19:31, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Those paras now added. -- Picapica 09:55, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Great article, excellent translation! I've done minor idiom tweaking as far as "Table culture", and will be back to do more. Bishonen 17:27, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Returned and copyedited the second half very lightly, too. The semi-mythical or rare practice of deliberately vomiting was mentioned in two places, so I merged the earlier sentence into the "Vomitorium" section at the end. Does anybody know why "the Consul C. Fannius prohibited the consumption of poulards"? It comes a little surprisingly, so it would be neat if the reason could be put in. Bishonen 21:02, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Any objections to moving this and the other articles from Category:Ancient Roman food and drink to Category:Roman cuisine?
Peter Isotalo 12:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Traditionally in the morning a breakfast was served, the ientaculum or iantaculum, at noon a small lunch..." Then it mentions that the vesperna disappeared. Is this right? According to this, it says there was a breakfast, a cena, and then a vesperna later in the evening, not a lunch. That jibes with what it says later, that a prandium showed up around noon afterwards, when the cena changed. Clarityfiend 06:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, vesperna is mentioned for the first time in the sentence "vesperna was abandoned", without hinting what vesperna even is. Juraj5 ( talk) 08:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Just from looking at the words, prandium is lunch and vesperna is an evening meal. Lunch would never have been an evening meal in Rome. I agree that this section is confused -- probably as a result of successive careless edits -- and should be straightened out, but I don't have the knowledge to do so. Sciamanna ( talk) 21:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
How could squash have been typical of Roman cuisine if squashes are a New World crop, and thus would not have been available in Rome in the classical era? What source does this information come from, and what term is "squash" being used to translate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.102.47 ( talk) 11:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I assume what is meant is gourds rather than squashes. The confusion probably comes from the fact that in Italian, both gourds and squashes are called "zucche" -- so any Italian source would be ambiguous, unless the specific scientific name was used. It is certainly true that gourds have been cultivated and eaten in Italy since ancient times; however, I don't know the specific details, so I will simply change "squash" to "gourd" in the main text, and hope for some more knowledgeable person to come along and improve it :-) Sciamanna ( talk) 21:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, it mentions french beans, which are also native to the Americas.
98.247.156.96 (
talk)
21:45, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
The article still mentions yellow squash and zucchini, which are both new world crops.-- 190.193.41.23 ( Krinnen) 20:40, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
If you are going to dispute the information on the article, first discuss it here and please provide facts to back up your statement instead of posting a disputed sign on the article. If you disagree with anything in an article, then it is your responsibility to back up your statements, not someone else's. Brothejr ( talk) 20:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I remember reading somewhere that the Romans used to prepare a dish involving woodlice, but can't find any information online - does anyone know about this? Drutt ( talk) 21:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The article says that fish were rarely eaten and expensive, but I had always heard that in the ancient Mediterranean meat was expensive and fish was the food of the common people. Maybe in the city of Rome itself fish was expensive, because I don't imagine the Tiber ever had many fish, and the distance was more of an issue back then, but I would think that in Pompeii and the other port cities, fish was cheap and commonly available. I don't have a source to back this up, so I can't be sure, but either way, the claim should cite a source, which it doesn't. Wldcat ( talk) 23:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
This article contains the following quote: kale was cooked in saltpetre. Does anyone know anything more about this? Why saltpetere? When one follows the saltpetre link, both potassium and sodium nitrate are referenced. I would assume (from the link) that the Romans were using potassium nitrate. Was saltpetre being used as a flavoring, a Coloring agent, or a preservative? Somehow, from the syntax, I picture this dish being served warm/fresh, meaning that it was not being uses as a preservative, as in Salami. Does anyone know how extensive the Roman saltpetre production was, or what method was used?
..On another note, cooked woodlice - this excites my culinary curiosity. Now I want to go turn over rocks in the back yard.. Recipé?
..And somehow, I would think that salted or smoked fish would have been widely available, given that:
However, I know nothing about the veracity of my assumptions, and I could be entirely wrong. 𝕭𝖗𝔦𝔞𝔫𝕶𝔫𝔢𝔷 talk 17:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Hallo,
I think that this article should be moved to Ancient Roman Cuisine or Classical Roman Cuisine. The problem is that the cuisine of the City of Rome extends far behind the classical age. The name Roman Cuisine should be used for the modern Roman cooking, as it is the case in the italian literature. Cheers, Alex2006 ( talk) 07:23, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I have an issue with this statement: "public bakeries were established in Rome from 270 AD". There certainly was a bakery in Pompeii, destroyed by the Vesuvius eruption in 79 CE. It is not that far from Rome, about 200 km; I find it quite strange that there would be a public bakery in Pompeii and not in Rome... If nobody has supporting evidence, I suggest to delete the sentence, or edit it somehow. 173.206.231.2 ( talk) 13:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
In popular culture, ancient Roman cuisine is usually shown as having extraordinarily strange dishes preferred among the wealthy, such as "otters' noses!" sold by Brian of Nazareth as a snack at the Circus Maximus in the film Life of Brian. How accurate is this? Were such extraordinarily strange dishes ever consumed? JIP | Talk 19:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
The article states that "Wine was normally mixed with a liquid resembling vodka immediately before drinking to raise the grade, since the fermentation was not controlled and the alcohol grade was low". What was this liquid resembling vodka? I was under the impression that before distillation was invented, spirits like vodka did not exist. -- 109.154.48.250 ( talk) 21:16, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Some of the information currently on the page is incorrect or misleading, as unsourced content on the ancient world often is. To choose an example, the page says ridiculous things "Pulses such as fava beans ... were only appreciated by peasants, smiths, legionaries and gladiators," which is flat wrong: "That wealthy Romans ate fava beans is ... strongly suggested" by recipes attributed to Apicius; "even in the most extravagant of cookbooks, beans had their place." The page states that "Fish was served only in earlier periods," which is ludicrous. I have taken the unsourced passages out. The burden of evidence always lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Neutrality talk 23:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I plan on working to add sourced content in the future, but unsourced, misleading material is worst than no material at all. Neutrality talk 23:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Petronius describes a funeral feast consisting of chickpeas, sausages, beets, whole wheat bread, cheese tart, honey, lupines, nuts, and an apple for each person. [1] funerary banquet scenes
other fictional and mythological scenes
References
"Conditum" is described as "a mixture of wine, hod matured." I assume this is a typo, but I have no idea what "hod matured" is supposed to be. Sadiemonster ( talk) 16:57, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
An editor has repeatedly contributed material, in the lead section (!), about relative levels of nutrition in the Roman empire. This seems not to be the right article for such matters (" Food and dining in the Roman Empire" would likely be more appropriate), and certainly not the right part of the article.
I am reinserting some text I put on this page awhile ago because I am doing it for a class at school. Just FYI for all y'all deleters! I have credible sources from a university and much of this info belongs on here contrary to what some users may believe. User:Cannon98 —Preceding undated comment added 01:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
There may be some properly-cited, relevant claims in the material you added, but they are a small fraction of the total. If it is to be useful to Wikipedia it needs to be better targeted and better cited as encyclopedic text, not a class assignment. I shall therefore remove the material now. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
==Wiki Education assignment: Pompeii and the Cities of Vesuvius==
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 12 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Corinnestevens,
Dancients (
article contribs).
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Food and dining in the Roman Empire which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 08:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 January 2019 and 19 April 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Ski-Doo800,
Luke2639,
AaronNeumeyer2.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Cannon98,
Askarzenski.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:11, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I thought strawberries came from the New World and that they were not cultivated until the 1700s. How did the ancient Romans eat them? That seems made up. Source?
If memory serves this is from Apicius (repeated by the well known Harold McGee), but I thought this was more of a chemistry experiment than something you would actually drink after "transforming" it. -- Chinasaur 06:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
What about vomitoriums (vomitoria?) ? The Trolls of Navarone 20:36, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I recall, on a visit to the Roman city of Volubilis in Morocco, finding a "Vomitorium" marked on the floor plan, and it most certainly was not a passage, but something the size and shape of a fireplace, so a good size for a basin. - While we're at it, any news of modern-day "barf basins"? Only recently, I saw a porcelain bowl with handles and a tap mounted at about 1,5 metres above the ground in a restaurant loo in Zell, Germany, and could think of no other purpose for it than as a "vomitorium" (all the more so given that said town is known for booze tourism). -- Humphrey20020 09:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
List of missing translations in the article:
Cat 19:45, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Meerbarbe = red mullet, corrected that
Blutwurst : dictionary says blood sausage or black pudding; I think blood sausage is better to use here because as far as i know
black pudding is a name for a specific british blood sausage that not everyone knows and "blood sausage" is more descriptive. German Blutwurst often means a specific sausage (which is only lots of clotted blood with pieces of pork fat in it, of course nicely spiced) but it's also used for all sausages made with blood.
Thanks for the vomitorium stuff, i'll add that to the german article
look what i've just found:
http://www.dict.leo.org
it's run by a german university, the best and easiest to use online dictionary i've seen so far. may be the link should be on the translations page
Tenar
I'd like to add the phrase "from eggs to apples" (ab ovo usque ad mala), but in which section? starters or desserts? -- Lisa Paul 20:56, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
There are three more as yet untranslated paragraphs in the Bestandteile der Hauptmahlzeit section of the German article. I'll shortly be giving them a go unless anyone else wants to get there first. -- Picapica 19:31, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Those paras now added. -- Picapica 09:55, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Great article, excellent translation! I've done minor idiom tweaking as far as "Table culture", and will be back to do more. Bishonen 17:27, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Returned and copyedited the second half very lightly, too. The semi-mythical or rare practice of deliberately vomiting was mentioned in two places, so I merged the earlier sentence into the "Vomitorium" section at the end. Does anybody know why "the Consul C. Fannius prohibited the consumption of poulards"? It comes a little surprisingly, so it would be neat if the reason could be put in. Bishonen 21:02, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Any objections to moving this and the other articles from Category:Ancient Roman food and drink to Category:Roman cuisine?
Peter Isotalo 12:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Traditionally in the morning a breakfast was served, the ientaculum or iantaculum, at noon a small lunch..." Then it mentions that the vesperna disappeared. Is this right? According to this, it says there was a breakfast, a cena, and then a vesperna later in the evening, not a lunch. That jibes with what it says later, that a prandium showed up around noon afterwards, when the cena changed. Clarityfiend 06:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, vesperna is mentioned for the first time in the sentence "vesperna was abandoned", without hinting what vesperna even is. Juraj5 ( talk) 08:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Just from looking at the words, prandium is lunch and vesperna is an evening meal. Lunch would never have been an evening meal in Rome. I agree that this section is confused -- probably as a result of successive careless edits -- and should be straightened out, but I don't have the knowledge to do so. Sciamanna ( talk) 21:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
How could squash have been typical of Roman cuisine if squashes are a New World crop, and thus would not have been available in Rome in the classical era? What source does this information come from, and what term is "squash" being used to translate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.102.47 ( talk) 11:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I assume what is meant is gourds rather than squashes. The confusion probably comes from the fact that in Italian, both gourds and squashes are called "zucche" -- so any Italian source would be ambiguous, unless the specific scientific name was used. It is certainly true that gourds have been cultivated and eaten in Italy since ancient times; however, I don't know the specific details, so I will simply change "squash" to "gourd" in the main text, and hope for some more knowledgeable person to come along and improve it :-) Sciamanna ( talk) 21:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, it mentions french beans, which are also native to the Americas.
98.247.156.96 (
talk)
21:45, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
The article still mentions yellow squash and zucchini, which are both new world crops.-- 190.193.41.23 ( Krinnen) 20:40, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
If you are going to dispute the information on the article, first discuss it here and please provide facts to back up your statement instead of posting a disputed sign on the article. If you disagree with anything in an article, then it is your responsibility to back up your statements, not someone else's. Brothejr ( talk) 20:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I remember reading somewhere that the Romans used to prepare a dish involving woodlice, but can't find any information online - does anyone know about this? Drutt ( talk) 21:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The article says that fish were rarely eaten and expensive, but I had always heard that in the ancient Mediterranean meat was expensive and fish was the food of the common people. Maybe in the city of Rome itself fish was expensive, because I don't imagine the Tiber ever had many fish, and the distance was more of an issue back then, but I would think that in Pompeii and the other port cities, fish was cheap and commonly available. I don't have a source to back this up, so I can't be sure, but either way, the claim should cite a source, which it doesn't. Wldcat ( talk) 23:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
This article contains the following quote: kale was cooked in saltpetre. Does anyone know anything more about this? Why saltpetere? When one follows the saltpetre link, both potassium and sodium nitrate are referenced. I would assume (from the link) that the Romans were using potassium nitrate. Was saltpetre being used as a flavoring, a Coloring agent, or a preservative? Somehow, from the syntax, I picture this dish being served warm/fresh, meaning that it was not being uses as a preservative, as in Salami. Does anyone know how extensive the Roman saltpetre production was, or what method was used?
..On another note, cooked woodlice - this excites my culinary curiosity. Now I want to go turn over rocks in the back yard.. Recipé?
..And somehow, I would think that salted or smoked fish would have been widely available, given that:
However, I know nothing about the veracity of my assumptions, and I could be entirely wrong. 𝕭𝖗𝔦𝔞𝔫𝕶𝔫𝔢𝔷 talk 17:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Hallo,
I think that this article should be moved to Ancient Roman Cuisine or Classical Roman Cuisine. The problem is that the cuisine of the City of Rome extends far behind the classical age. The name Roman Cuisine should be used for the modern Roman cooking, as it is the case in the italian literature. Cheers, Alex2006 ( talk) 07:23, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I have an issue with this statement: "public bakeries were established in Rome from 270 AD". There certainly was a bakery in Pompeii, destroyed by the Vesuvius eruption in 79 CE. It is not that far from Rome, about 200 km; I find it quite strange that there would be a public bakery in Pompeii and not in Rome... If nobody has supporting evidence, I suggest to delete the sentence, or edit it somehow. 173.206.231.2 ( talk) 13:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
In popular culture, ancient Roman cuisine is usually shown as having extraordinarily strange dishes preferred among the wealthy, such as "otters' noses!" sold by Brian of Nazareth as a snack at the Circus Maximus in the film Life of Brian. How accurate is this? Were such extraordinarily strange dishes ever consumed? JIP | Talk 19:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
The article states that "Wine was normally mixed with a liquid resembling vodka immediately before drinking to raise the grade, since the fermentation was not controlled and the alcohol grade was low". What was this liquid resembling vodka? I was under the impression that before distillation was invented, spirits like vodka did not exist. -- 109.154.48.250 ( talk) 21:16, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Some of the information currently on the page is incorrect or misleading, as unsourced content on the ancient world often is. To choose an example, the page says ridiculous things "Pulses such as fava beans ... were only appreciated by peasants, smiths, legionaries and gladiators," which is flat wrong: "That wealthy Romans ate fava beans is ... strongly suggested" by recipes attributed to Apicius; "even in the most extravagant of cookbooks, beans had their place." The page states that "Fish was served only in earlier periods," which is ludicrous. I have taken the unsourced passages out. The burden of evidence always lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Neutrality talk 23:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I plan on working to add sourced content in the future, but unsourced, misleading material is worst than no material at all. Neutrality talk 23:44, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Petronius describes a funeral feast consisting of chickpeas, sausages, beets, whole wheat bread, cheese tart, honey, lupines, nuts, and an apple for each person. [1] funerary banquet scenes
other fictional and mythological scenes
References
"Conditum" is described as "a mixture of wine, hod matured." I assume this is a typo, but I have no idea what "hod matured" is supposed to be. Sadiemonster ( talk) 16:57, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
An editor has repeatedly contributed material, in the lead section (!), about relative levels of nutrition in the Roman empire. This seems not to be the right article for such matters (" Food and dining in the Roman Empire" would likely be more appropriate), and certainly not the right part of the article.
I am reinserting some text I put on this page awhile ago because I am doing it for a class at school. Just FYI for all y'all deleters! I have credible sources from a university and much of this info belongs on here contrary to what some users may believe. User:Cannon98 —Preceding undated comment added 01:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
There may be some properly-cited, relevant claims in the material you added, but they are a small fraction of the total. If it is to be useful to Wikipedia it needs to be better targeted and better cited as encyclopedic text, not a class assignment. I shall therefore remove the material now. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 10:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
==Wiki Education assignment: Pompeii and the Cities of Vesuvius==
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 12 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Corinnestevens,
Dancients (
article contribs).
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Food and dining in the Roman Empire which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 08:47, 20 April 2023 (UTC)