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I removed these vitriolic sections as they do nothing to further the article.
" Charles Charles and David Koch, wealthy industrialists, own Koch Carbon which purchases the black "high-sulfur, high-carbon waste" petroleum coke stored by Detroit Bulk Storage owned by Noel Frye and John Fry, [1] which uses an open storage method, creating an unsightly three-story high stockpile of their product covering an entire city block beside the Detroit River near the Ambassador Bridge"
"The Koch brothers, who challenge the science behind human activity causing climate change, sell petcoke overseas as fuel."
The second section is irrelevant to the Ambassador Bridge and should be put in a separate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.138.35.25 ( talk) 13:44, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
It's part of the immediate area, and is in my opinion relevant to the turmoil around the bridge owner. I've restored it, if you want to create a full article that is your prerogative, but should not be removed here. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Notwillywanka (
talk •
contribs)
18:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Adding POV dispute. Their reasons for selling pet coke may or may not have anything to do with "the science behind human activity causing
climate change". It would seem the only point to the restoration (instead of editing to a more NPOV would be to defame the Koch Brothers. A better way would be to not include the term "Koch Brothers" but maybe "Koch Industries".
These subsections are POV
What does this section even have to do with the bridge? There's a single sentence about obstruction of the view of the bridge, but it's otherwise irrelevant to the article. Even if it's "part of the immediate area," that doesn't have much to do with the bridge itself. - 97.85.35.7 ( talk) 07:18, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
References
What is the bridge's width? Funnyhat 03:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Counting the parts that are falling off on the Canadian side? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka ( talk • contribs) 23:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is still pretty short, and doesn't cover much about the history or operations of the bridge. -- Beland 01:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I managed to archive a copy of the Ambassador Bridge's website before they took down all their data due to security reasons. Should i post the information here? I have the dimensions and so on. Apparently, the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel told The Windsor Star that they would remove their information with the Ambassador Bridge, but they didn't. RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 01:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
User F203 ( talk) 23:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Should something be mentioned about how this is the only point in the lower 48 states where one can travel south from the US to Canada? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.27.9.20 ( talk) 18:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
"Point" being Windsor-Detroit, I assume you mean. You can also drive south into Canada from Detroit through the tunnel a couple of miles away. By the way, the article says that the sidewalk was closed due to 9/11 security concerns. I'm pretty sure it was closed long before that because of suicide concerns. I lived in Windsor for 14 years and I am pretty sure it was closed then. I know I never saw anyone on it except bridge workers. Tim in Canada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.73.131.132 ( talk) 19:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
So how did the bridge come to be privately owned? The article does not say. One could infer a number of circumstances, but it is unlikely that the transaction that took it from public ownership to private ownership, some three decades or so, was an involuntary transaction. In other words, I would think we might infer that the public agency(ies) must have consented to sell the bridge since, it would appear, that the bridge was originally a public thoroughfare.
At any rate, I think the Wikipedia article would be greatly improved to have a WP:NPOV historical treatment of that chapter of the bridge's history. (and is sorely lacking without it). Cheers. N2e ( talk) 20:39, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
It would be perhaps trivial, but useful, to indicate the arrangement of toll gates. Current Google Earth photography seems to suggest that there is no automobile toll gate on the Canadian end of the bridge, which suggests to me that tolls are paid on the US side for both directions of traffic. Can someone confirm this, and if this is the case, mention it in the article? GBC ( talk) 14:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Today, billionaire Manuel “Matty” Moroun, 84, was sent to jail for contempt of court. Moroun is owner of Detroit‘s Ambassador Bridge, the most important border crossing between the U.S. and Canada. He wants to stop Michigan and Canada from building a second bridge nearby, and says he’ll build his own new and improved bridge instead. But right now, he’s in trouble for failing to complete a joint project with the state of Michigan to improve access to the existing bridge.
99.181.131.215 ( talk) 23:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
In the media section, an inline hyperlink was pointing to a non existent page at History Channel, the "new" location for this is here, but no where in the page is the bridge mentioned. I do not remember that episode, I do not doubt that Ambassador is pictured, but the source/link does not represent that. I am unfamiliar with the IP added episode.
I added actual stats as publicly provided. I added up to date tolls. I don't see why these edits were undone. Everything I added had citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichiganCola ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Recents edits are very POV, and incorrect. Many of the "sources" are not reliable, and are not neutral. -- Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎 20:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
So what are we to do? Moxy ( talk) 21:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the "monopoly" discussion, it is a very slippery slope to use that language. It is very much dependent on how narrow you want to make the market. Would you characterize Apple as having a monopoly on selling the iPhone? If you go read the Apple wiki, there isn't discussion of them having a monopoly on sales for the iPhone. The government mandated Environmental Impact Study for the DRIC includes the BWB in their traffic projections/impacts. If the BWB is being considered in this study, and it is in the same shipping lane, it should be counted. I linked to the Wiki explaining the duty free store, not sure what the dispute over that is about. The Jimmy Johns on my local street corner has a monopoly on selling subs at that exact location, yet I don't call it a monopoly. -- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
As for the BWB not having proper plaza capacity, not sure what you mean here. MDOT just spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past 10 years upgrading the BWB plaza after building a second span in the 1990s.-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the Public Border Operators Association not being a reliable source for traffic information. Their numbers match Michigan Department of Transportation for the years available for both. It is unclear who would have better data, read their about us. I don't know/see a better alternative. I could be wrong, but the Environmental Impact Study also uses this data if I am not mistaken. PBOA data was also used by MDOT in projections for the Blue Water Bridge expansion as well. If you want to maintain there is no good source of traffic information, it is then impossible to quantify how much truck traffic goes across the bridge period, not exactly helpful for discussion then. -- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
To suggest the Toll Road News article is irrelevant, is to ignore the main claim the DRIC is needed because of projected higher traffic being grounds for another crossing. Traffic is significantly down according to the available data. No one has made the case traffic is up if you go back further than 3 years. So either the justification for the DRIC on traffic grounds needs to be removed, or it needs to be pointed out projected higher traffic is not a fact.-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the debate about cost, unsure of the path forward. References to articles which don't support the DRIC are considered POV/opinion/invalid, but paragraphs with clearly referenced facts showing cost of the bridge don't show grounds of debate and need to be removed?-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
The current map is not that great. It shows more of Michigan (including the county divisions) than anything else. I put in a request for a new map.
Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Map_workshop#Ambassador_Bridge_Map_request
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Updated developments on the fate of the bridge and its proposed twin span/replacement span. Article should be updated to make note of this
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/ambassador_bridge_to_be_demoli.html
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/moroun-scores-long-awaited-canadian-approval-to-build-twin-span
https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/9/6/16263618/ambassador-bridge-span-moroun
SecretName101 (
talk)
00:55, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes I get it the bridge is owned by an American company, but the bridge crosses Canada and therefore it is preferred that the units be primarily metric so Canadians can be more benefited. Yes I also get it, old Canadians still use Canadian customary units (imperial system) but again today’s Canadians prefer metric as primary units on these articles, such as this one (Ambassador Bridge). MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 21:07, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
This is an international article so it needs metric first. MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:41, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
User:Acroterion, please revert my edits now that I put Put metric first on the talk. MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I meant please get my edits back, User:Acroterion MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Given the image use policy, what specific purpose is served by the image gallery? Someone has put it back twice now, claiming that it "does add to the article", but without indicating how they think it does that. 46.208.152.52 ( talk) 20:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Regarding the stub articles on the two holding companies, as another editor and I have noted, they are not independently notable separate from the bridge, so we don't need articles on them to say what this bridge article already says. Imzadi 1979 → 21:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
I've had a go at copyediting the images so they look reasonable on a large monitor, and done a few other tweaks, using Dartford Crossing and Hyde Park, London (both GAs) as a basic starting point. I'm not a fan of galleries I'm afraid, if they're your "thing", then Commons is thataway. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
So this article has information that is being parroted by news orgs, that it controls 25% of trade traffic between the US and Canada. The citation, 34, is a 404. This is weird, as the closest I've found online for that 25% citation is as a percentage of vehicle trade traffic. Not include port traffic. The Port_of_Toronto deals with 1.7 Million tonnes a year as per the wiki article. A Cargo ship can have 24k containers, and this road deal with like ~8k trucks per day. https://www.ezbordercrossing.com/list-of-border-crossings/michigan/ambassador-bridge/ So, uh, why is wikipedia influencing the narrative like this? ChrisPikula 18:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.225.26.127 ( talk)
It looks like:
This makes Ambassador Bridge comparable to Eurotunnel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.155.75 ( talk) 12:04, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Compared to Eurotunnel:
The article states that tax free fuel is sold by the owners of the bridge, but it should also mention where this exactly takes place, i.e. is there a gas station located in no mans land or why it is otherwise tax free. -- 217.149.172.70 ( talk) 22:49, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
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I removed these vitriolic sections as they do nothing to further the article.
" Charles Charles and David Koch, wealthy industrialists, own Koch Carbon which purchases the black "high-sulfur, high-carbon waste" petroleum coke stored by Detroit Bulk Storage owned by Noel Frye and John Fry, [1] which uses an open storage method, creating an unsightly three-story high stockpile of their product covering an entire city block beside the Detroit River near the Ambassador Bridge"
"The Koch brothers, who challenge the science behind human activity causing climate change, sell petcoke overseas as fuel."
The second section is irrelevant to the Ambassador Bridge and should be put in a separate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.138.35.25 ( talk) 13:44, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
It's part of the immediate area, and is in my opinion relevant to the turmoil around the bridge owner. I've restored it, if you want to create a full article that is your prerogative, but should not be removed here. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Notwillywanka (
talk •
contribs)
18:49, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
Adding POV dispute. Their reasons for selling pet coke may or may not have anything to do with "the science behind human activity causing
climate change". It would seem the only point to the restoration (instead of editing to a more NPOV would be to defame the Koch Brothers. A better way would be to not include the term "Koch Brothers" but maybe "Koch Industries".
These subsections are POV
What does this section even have to do with the bridge? There's a single sentence about obstruction of the view of the bridge, but it's otherwise irrelevant to the article. Even if it's "part of the immediate area," that doesn't have much to do with the bridge itself. - 97.85.35.7 ( talk) 07:18, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
References
What is the bridge's width? Funnyhat 03:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Counting the parts that are falling off on the Canadian side? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notwillywanka ( talk • contribs) 23:32, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
This article is still pretty short, and doesn't cover much about the history or operations of the bridge. -- Beland 01:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I managed to archive a copy of the Ambassador Bridge's website before they took down all their data due to security reasons. Should i post the information here? I have the dimensions and so on. Apparently, the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel told The Windsor Star that they would remove their information with the Ambassador Bridge, but they didn't. RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 01:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
User F203 ( talk) 23:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Should something be mentioned about how this is the only point in the lower 48 states where one can travel south from the US to Canada? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.27.9.20 ( talk) 18:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
"Point" being Windsor-Detroit, I assume you mean. You can also drive south into Canada from Detroit through the tunnel a couple of miles away. By the way, the article says that the sidewalk was closed due to 9/11 security concerns. I'm pretty sure it was closed long before that because of suicide concerns. I lived in Windsor for 14 years and I am pretty sure it was closed then. I know I never saw anyone on it except bridge workers. Tim in Canada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.73.131.132 ( talk) 19:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
So how did the bridge come to be privately owned? The article does not say. One could infer a number of circumstances, but it is unlikely that the transaction that took it from public ownership to private ownership, some three decades or so, was an involuntary transaction. In other words, I would think we might infer that the public agency(ies) must have consented to sell the bridge since, it would appear, that the bridge was originally a public thoroughfare.
At any rate, I think the Wikipedia article would be greatly improved to have a WP:NPOV historical treatment of that chapter of the bridge's history. (and is sorely lacking without it). Cheers. N2e ( talk) 20:39, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
It would be perhaps trivial, but useful, to indicate the arrangement of toll gates. Current Google Earth photography seems to suggest that there is no automobile toll gate on the Canadian end of the bridge, which suggests to me that tolls are paid on the US side for both directions of traffic. Can someone confirm this, and if this is the case, mention it in the article? GBC ( talk) 14:48, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Today, billionaire Manuel “Matty” Moroun, 84, was sent to jail for contempt of court. Moroun is owner of Detroit‘s Ambassador Bridge, the most important border crossing between the U.S. and Canada. He wants to stop Michigan and Canada from building a second bridge nearby, and says he’ll build his own new and improved bridge instead. But right now, he’s in trouble for failing to complete a joint project with the state of Michigan to improve access to the existing bridge.
99.181.131.215 ( talk) 23:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
In the media section, an inline hyperlink was pointing to a non existent page at History Channel, the "new" location for this is here, but no where in the page is the bridge mentioned. I do not remember that episode, I do not doubt that Ambassador is pictured, but the source/link does not represent that. I am unfamiliar with the IP added episode.
I added actual stats as publicly provided. I added up to date tolls. I don't see why these edits were undone. Everything I added had citations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichiganCola ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Recents edits are very POV, and incorrect. Many of the "sources" are not reliable, and are not neutral. -- Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎 20:47, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
So what are we to do? Moxy ( talk) 21:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the "monopoly" discussion, it is a very slippery slope to use that language. It is very much dependent on how narrow you want to make the market. Would you characterize Apple as having a monopoly on selling the iPhone? If you go read the Apple wiki, there isn't discussion of them having a monopoly on sales for the iPhone. The government mandated Environmental Impact Study for the DRIC includes the BWB in their traffic projections/impacts. If the BWB is being considered in this study, and it is in the same shipping lane, it should be counted. I linked to the Wiki explaining the duty free store, not sure what the dispute over that is about. The Jimmy Johns on my local street corner has a monopoly on selling subs at that exact location, yet I don't call it a monopoly. -- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
As for the BWB not having proper plaza capacity, not sure what you mean here. MDOT just spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past 10 years upgrading the BWB plaza after building a second span in the 1990s.-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the Public Border Operators Association not being a reliable source for traffic information. Their numbers match Michigan Department of Transportation for the years available for both. It is unclear who would have better data, read their about us. I don't know/see a better alternative. I could be wrong, but the Environmental Impact Study also uses this data if I am not mistaken. PBOA data was also used by MDOT in projections for the Blue Water Bridge expansion as well. If you want to maintain there is no good source of traffic information, it is then impossible to quantify how much truck traffic goes across the bridge period, not exactly helpful for discussion then. -- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
To suggest the Toll Road News article is irrelevant, is to ignore the main claim the DRIC is needed because of projected higher traffic being grounds for another crossing. Traffic is significantly down according to the available data. No one has made the case traffic is up if you go back further than 3 years. So either the justification for the DRIC on traffic grounds needs to be removed, or it needs to be pointed out projected higher traffic is not a fact.-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
With regards to the debate about cost, unsure of the path forward. References to articles which don't support the DRIC are considered POV/opinion/invalid, but paragraphs with clearly referenced facts showing cost of the bridge don't show grounds of debate and need to be removed?-- MichiganCola ( talk) 13:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
The current map is not that great. It shows more of Michigan (including the county divisions) than anything else. I put in a request for a new map.
Wikipedia:Graphics_Lab/Map_workshop#Ambassador_Bridge_Map_request
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Updated developments on the fate of the bridge and its proposed twin span/replacement span. Article should be updated to make note of this
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/ambassador_bridge_to_be_demoli.html
http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/moroun-scores-long-awaited-canadian-approval-to-build-twin-span
https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/9/6/16263618/ambassador-bridge-span-moroun
SecretName101 (
talk)
00:55, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes I get it the bridge is owned by an American company, but the bridge crosses Canada and therefore it is preferred that the units be primarily metric so Canadians can be more benefited. Yes I also get it, old Canadians still use Canadian customary units (imperial system) but again today’s Canadians prefer metric as primary units on these articles, such as this one (Ambassador Bridge). MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 21:07, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
This is an international article so it needs metric first. MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:41, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
User:Acroterion, please revert my edits now that I put Put metric first on the talk. MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I meant please get my edits back, User:Acroterion MetricSupporter89 ( talk) 00:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Given the image use policy, what specific purpose is served by the image gallery? Someone has put it back twice now, claiming that it "does add to the article", but without indicating how they think it does that. 46.208.152.52 ( talk) 20:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Regarding the stub articles on the two holding companies, as another editor and I have noted, they are not independently notable separate from the bridge, so we don't need articles on them to say what this bridge article already says. Imzadi 1979 → 21:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
I've had a go at copyediting the images so they look reasonable on a large monitor, and done a few other tweaks, using Dartford Crossing and Hyde Park, London (both GAs) as a basic starting point. I'm not a fan of galleries I'm afraid, if they're your "thing", then Commons is thataway. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
So this article has information that is being parroted by news orgs, that it controls 25% of trade traffic between the US and Canada. The citation, 34, is a 404. This is weird, as the closest I've found online for that 25% citation is as a percentage of vehicle trade traffic. Not include port traffic. The Port_of_Toronto deals with 1.7 Million tonnes a year as per the wiki article. A Cargo ship can have 24k containers, and this road deal with like ~8k trucks per day. https://www.ezbordercrossing.com/list-of-border-crossings/michigan/ambassador-bridge/ So, uh, why is wikipedia influencing the narrative like this? ChrisPikula 18:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.225.26.127 ( talk)
It looks like:
This makes Ambassador Bridge comparable to Eurotunnel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.155.75 ( talk) 12:04, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Compared to Eurotunnel:
The article states that tax free fuel is sold by the owners of the bridge, but it should also mention where this exactly takes place, i.e. is there a gas station located in no mans land or why it is otherwise tax free. -- 217.149.172.70 ( talk) 22:49, 13 February 2022 (UTC)