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I don't have time to research this seriously right now, but I found some interesting information here. I kinda doubt this is a reliable source despite Shpak Lissak being a historian.
I think it should be pretty easy to verify the information about Jewish populations prior to 19th century. I found this. Also, more information about the Algerian inhabitants would be interesting. The PEF reports them as Algerian, so apparently it wasn't exactly a secret.
Also, here's some info about the inscriptions. [1] No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 14:49, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
There's more about the Protestants at Alma and other Arabs in The land and the book, or biblical illustrations of the Holy Land (1864). See pages 288-290, 295-297 (290-295 are a long soliloquy on the superiority of Protestantism - interesting insight into why McClure was there, but scant on details about the place). Anyway, this account agrees with much of what is in the Bibliotheca Sacra. I'll start adding material to the article soon. I'm just mining the sources a little more to see where there is consensus and which provide exceptional claims that should be attributed directly to them.
One a side note, we have some Protestant Arabs in Nazareth too. Because there's no "p" in Arabic, we call them Bratestante". :) Tiamut talk 18:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Do we have any mention of Protestants that are definitely for this Alma? I'm not at all sure. The "Ladder of Tyre" is generally placed on the coast near the Lebanese Alma. Here is another mention of Protestants at Alma which is clearly the wrong one. Zero talk 01:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
The elementary school is linked to Al-Rihaniyya. Are we sure that's correct? That's pretty far away. I think it's more likely the Circasian village Rehaniya, which is much closer. No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 18:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
"At Ras el Ahmar, 'Alma, and Deishun there are Algerians. In a separate village of 'Alma, on the same plain and within sight of its namesake, there is a large settlement of Circassians, a race which has also settled in other spots." — E. W. G. Masterman, Upper Galilee, The Biblical World, Vol. 32, No. 4 (Oct., 1908), 226+234-241. Zero talk 10:48, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, its seems there were two. I've moved this comment down here from above:
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Do we write, in the lead of the articles, say, Kiryat Ata, Petah Tikva, Merhavia, that they were Arab/Palestinian places earlier? No, we don't, even if they have a longer period of habitation as an Arab/Palestinian place, than as a Jewish settlement.
Also, the sentence "The village was totally destroyed in the earthquake of January 1837" is sourced to Nicholas N. Ambraseys, 1997-article; I have read the article, and I cannot see that he mentions Alma, at all? And note that Robinson and Smith (who travelled in the area in 1838) notes the place as a village, NOT a ruin, (Ruins were denoted with a * after the name).
And Guerin says nothing about "Alegrine Muslims", neither does Finn, so the "rebuilt and inhabited by Muslims of Algerian origin" seems to be pure fiction? Yes, followers of Emir Abdelkader were exiled to the area, but that was long after 1837.
And worst of all, writing that "In medieval times, Alma was a Jewish settlement" ..in the lead(!) -when it had 288 Muslim households and 140 Muslim bachelors, and 7 Jewish households and 1 Jewish bachelor in the 1500?( Defter from 1595/6, or 1548/9)
The problem with sources like Benjamin of Tudela is that they only note Jewish resident; were there 500 Muslims in addition to the 50 Jews? Or 5000 Muslims? We simply do not know. But this sherry-picking is as bad (referred to above, under "Stuff") that of Rivka Shpak Lissak, who only reports Jewish tax-payers, not Muslim(!) -and calls "Modern Alma was a Jewish Town Until the 17th Century"? So if a town/village had between 1-5% Jewish population, it was a "Jewish town? Huldra ( talk) 23:42, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
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![]() | A fact from Alma, Safad appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 9 September 2009 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
I don't have time to research this seriously right now, but I found some interesting information here. I kinda doubt this is a reliable source despite Shpak Lissak being a historian.
I think it should be pretty easy to verify the information about Jewish populations prior to 19th century. I found this. Also, more information about the Algerian inhabitants would be interesting. The PEF reports them as Algerian, so apparently it wasn't exactly a secret.
Also, here's some info about the inscriptions. [1] No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 14:49, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
There's more about the Protestants at Alma and other Arabs in The land and the book, or biblical illustrations of the Holy Land (1864). See pages 288-290, 295-297 (290-295 are a long soliloquy on the superiority of Protestantism - interesting insight into why McClure was there, but scant on details about the place). Anyway, this account agrees with much of what is in the Bibliotheca Sacra. I'll start adding material to the article soon. I'm just mining the sources a little more to see where there is consensus and which provide exceptional claims that should be attributed directly to them.
One a side note, we have some Protestant Arabs in Nazareth too. Because there's no "p" in Arabic, we call them Bratestante". :) Tiamut talk 18:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Do we have any mention of Protestants that are definitely for this Alma? I'm not at all sure. The "Ladder of Tyre" is generally placed on the coast near the Lebanese Alma. Here is another mention of Protestants at Alma which is clearly the wrong one. Zero talk 01:29, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
The elementary school is linked to Al-Rihaniyya. Are we sure that's correct? That's pretty far away. I think it's more likely the Circasian village Rehaniya, which is much closer. No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 18:51, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
"At Ras el Ahmar, 'Alma, and Deishun there are Algerians. In a separate village of 'Alma, on the same plain and within sight of its namesake, there is a large settlement of Circassians, a race which has also settled in other spots." — E. W. G. Masterman, Upper Galilee, The Biblical World, Vol. 32, No. 4 (Oct., 1908), 226+234-241. Zero talk 10:48, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, its seems there were two. I've moved this comment down here from above:
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alma, Safad. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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dead link}}
tag to
http://www.palestineremembered.com/download/VillageStatistics/Table%20I/Safad/Page-069.jpg{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.palestineremembered.com/download/VillageStatistics/Table%20II/Safad/Page-118.jpg{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.palestineremembered.com/download/VillageStatistics/Table%20III/Safad/Page-168.jpgWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:32, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Do we write, in the lead of the articles, say, Kiryat Ata, Petah Tikva, Merhavia, that they were Arab/Palestinian places earlier? No, we don't, even if they have a longer period of habitation as an Arab/Palestinian place, than as a Jewish settlement.
Also, the sentence "The village was totally destroyed in the earthquake of January 1837" is sourced to Nicholas N. Ambraseys, 1997-article; I have read the article, and I cannot see that he mentions Alma, at all? And note that Robinson and Smith (who travelled in the area in 1838) notes the place as a village, NOT a ruin, (Ruins were denoted with a * after the name).
And Guerin says nothing about "Alegrine Muslims", neither does Finn, so the "rebuilt and inhabited by Muslims of Algerian origin" seems to be pure fiction? Yes, followers of Emir Abdelkader were exiled to the area, but that was long after 1837.
And worst of all, writing that "In medieval times, Alma was a Jewish settlement" ..in the lead(!) -when it had 288 Muslim households and 140 Muslim bachelors, and 7 Jewish households and 1 Jewish bachelor in the 1500?( Defter from 1595/6, or 1548/9)
The problem with sources like Benjamin of Tudela is that they only note Jewish resident; were there 500 Muslims in addition to the 50 Jews? Or 5000 Muslims? We simply do not know. But this sherry-picking is as bad (referred to above, under "Stuff") that of Rivka Shpak Lissak, who only reports Jewish tax-payers, not Muslim(!) -and calls "Modern Alma was a Jewish Town Until the 17th Century"? So if a town/village had between 1-5% Jewish population, it was a "Jewish town? Huldra ( talk) 23:42, 9 June 2023 (UTC)