This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abu Hanifa Dinawari article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
Note Dinwari according to Encyclopedia Iranica is not Kurdish. Also Yaqubi, the geographer and traveller maintains that Dinvar is a city whose inhabitants are a mixture of Arabs and Ajams.
According to prof. Mehrdad R. Izady he was a Kurd. Kirmashan and Dinawar are also predominantly Kurdish. Yaqubi says "Dinawar is a city whose inhabitants are a mixture of Arabs and Ajams." - Ajam originally means non-arabs, but has later come to define especially Persians, but the original meaning is non-arabs.
Dinawari was Kurdish. Just look at his book about the ancestors of Kurds. It's clearly written in a Kurd's POV. Plus, many of the Kurdish principalities/dynasties were circulated around Dinawar so Kurds did clearly form the majority of that area. There are no sign of him being Persian so I don't know why Encyclopedia Iranica is writing that he was Persian. But it's also important to know that around this time Kurds were seen as nomadic tribes of Persia and were also sometimes labeled as Persians. But still, he was what we today call Kurds and NOT Persian. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
83.249.87.235 (
talk)
20:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
This is very strange. Was Dinawari, whom was from the same kurdish tribe as my family, a persian who was among THE FIRST whom wrote about persian ancestry in a book about the KURDISH people? This makes no sense. Clearly it is the work of persian nationalists. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
85.162.94.91 (
talk)
04:48, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I changed the article a bit; he most likely was a Kurd, since he was born in Dinavar, and wrote a book about the ancestry of the Kurds; but we can't be certain, and since there are academic sources that say he was a Persian (though, this is no doubt because every Iranian is considered Persian by default untill proven otherwise), we have to respect that.
Znertu (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC).
I think the IRANICA and Enc of Islam believe it was just a common practice that in 900AC people work up and wrote about things that did not matter to them. Abu Hanifa was not Kurdish but wrote about his own ancestry in his own word. 1200 years later an Arab, Persian find it professionally and ethical amusing to just ignore the writers word and say "We believe that Dinewer is in Iran and there for he was Persian". The X scholar guy has never been close to Dinewer and he even can not pronounce the name. Even today area are mostly inhabitant by the Kurds, and predominate by Yarsans. Even today the best fruit, dairy products are form Dinewr area. When you go to shops in down town Kirmashah the store proudly tells you, they have Yoghurt from Dinewer. Well Prof Izady rightly put the record correct and being a Muslim does not make you Persian or Arab. IRANICA is based on lie and deceiving ethical of scholarly work. Made up 2500 years of history with no references, No Iranian ruled in Iran between Hakhamaneshi and Pahlawi dynasty, but they still dig and falsify the history. If it was not for Taymore Persian was replaced by Arabic and Turkish. One need to be truthful to history to be able to write about history.
It seems strange to me that (given two calendars that don't start on the same day of the year) Wikipedia has a precise birth/death year in the Christian calendar and a range of two years for birth/death year in the Islamic calendar. I would think if any precise records of this individuals birth and death date exist they would use the Islamic calendar (which would then imprecisely correspond to a range of two years in the Christian calendar). Plantdrew ( talk) 04:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Abu Hanifa Dinawari. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
@ William M. Connolley: First of all, you should explain that "nationalism nonsense", that's a serious personal attack. Second, you should explain your revert with a good edit summary, some reason more than "nationalism nonsense". Both Iranica and EOI explicitly mentioned that he was of Iranian origin. There's a consensus regarding the unreliability of Britanica. And, as I mentioned, Ludwig W. Adamec is a specialist on modern Afghan history. That means we can't use Britanica or Adamec. So, either explain your revert, or I have to revert you. -- Mazandar ( talk) 20:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
WP:FORUM |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
"Akrad" is the Arabic word for "Kurd". It does not mean and has never meant "nomad". Stop your bullshit and quit changing a historic fact. The book is called "The origins of the Kurds". Not "The origins of the Nomads". If the book is about the origin of the nomads, then is it about all nomads the world has ever known? Do all nomads have the same ancestry? How is it even possible to write a book on the origins of a people with a ***LIFESTYLE***. It is obviously a book about the origins OF AN ETHNIC GROUP. Go to the Arabic page and copy-paste the arabic-written title of that book and paste it in the translation service of your choice; it translates to Kurd and has always meant that. There are plenty of historic castles in Syria and other parts of the Levant with "Akad" in their original name. If you change it again, I will request this item to be revised by an admin and have you banned and this article locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.82.163.173 ( talk) 13:13, 7 July 2017 (UTC) |
@ HistoryofIran: Can you explain us why Ludwig W. Adamec is not a reliable source? Is there a consensus regarding the unreliability of Ludwig W. Adamec? Btw what is the difference between these 1 and 2 edits? Why do you accept one but not the other? I don't think that Persian ethnocentric edits are helpful for neutrality of Wikipedia. ;) Cheers! Gomada ( talk) 12:25, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Why are you trying to erase Kurdish history and personalities when there are reliable sources and documents in these fields? Kurdistan homeland ( talk) 13:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran you mentioned yourself that "Didnt write in Persian nor lived in a government where Persian had a official status."
But yet you added "Of Persian stock at the beginning of the article". Can you please fix that? Tekosh ( talk) 16:47, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abu Hanifa Dinawari article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
Note Dinwari according to Encyclopedia Iranica is not Kurdish. Also Yaqubi, the geographer and traveller maintains that Dinvar is a city whose inhabitants are a mixture of Arabs and Ajams.
According to prof. Mehrdad R. Izady he was a Kurd. Kirmashan and Dinawar are also predominantly Kurdish. Yaqubi says "Dinawar is a city whose inhabitants are a mixture of Arabs and Ajams." - Ajam originally means non-arabs, but has later come to define especially Persians, but the original meaning is non-arabs.
Dinawari was Kurdish. Just look at his book about the ancestors of Kurds. It's clearly written in a Kurd's POV. Plus, many of the Kurdish principalities/dynasties were circulated around Dinawar so Kurds did clearly form the majority of that area. There are no sign of him being Persian so I don't know why Encyclopedia Iranica is writing that he was Persian. But it's also important to know that around this time Kurds were seen as nomadic tribes of Persia and were also sometimes labeled as Persians. But still, he was what we today call Kurds and NOT Persian. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
83.249.87.235 (
talk)
20:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
This is very strange. Was Dinawari, whom was from the same kurdish tribe as my family, a persian who was among THE FIRST whom wrote about persian ancestry in a book about the KURDISH people? This makes no sense. Clearly it is the work of persian nationalists. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
85.162.94.91 (
talk)
04:48, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I changed the article a bit; he most likely was a Kurd, since he was born in Dinavar, and wrote a book about the ancestry of the Kurds; but we can't be certain, and since there are academic sources that say he was a Persian (though, this is no doubt because every Iranian is considered Persian by default untill proven otherwise), we have to respect that.
Znertu (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
12:09, 4 April 2012 (UTC).
I think the IRANICA and Enc of Islam believe it was just a common practice that in 900AC people work up and wrote about things that did not matter to them. Abu Hanifa was not Kurdish but wrote about his own ancestry in his own word. 1200 years later an Arab, Persian find it professionally and ethical amusing to just ignore the writers word and say "We believe that Dinewer is in Iran and there for he was Persian". The X scholar guy has never been close to Dinewer and he even can not pronounce the name. Even today area are mostly inhabitant by the Kurds, and predominate by Yarsans. Even today the best fruit, dairy products are form Dinewr area. When you go to shops in down town Kirmashah the store proudly tells you, they have Yoghurt from Dinewer. Well Prof Izady rightly put the record correct and being a Muslim does not make you Persian or Arab. IRANICA is based on lie and deceiving ethical of scholarly work. Made up 2500 years of history with no references, No Iranian ruled in Iran between Hakhamaneshi and Pahlawi dynasty, but they still dig and falsify the history. If it was not for Taymore Persian was replaced by Arabic and Turkish. One need to be truthful to history to be able to write about history.
It seems strange to me that (given two calendars that don't start on the same day of the year) Wikipedia has a precise birth/death year in the Christian calendar and a range of two years for birth/death year in the Islamic calendar. I would think if any precise records of this individuals birth and death date exist they would use the Islamic calendar (which would then imprecisely correspond to a range of two years in the Christian calendar). Plantdrew ( talk) 04:04, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Abu Hanifa Dinawari. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
@ William M. Connolley: First of all, you should explain that "nationalism nonsense", that's a serious personal attack. Second, you should explain your revert with a good edit summary, some reason more than "nationalism nonsense". Both Iranica and EOI explicitly mentioned that he was of Iranian origin. There's a consensus regarding the unreliability of Britanica. And, as I mentioned, Ludwig W. Adamec is a specialist on modern Afghan history. That means we can't use Britanica or Adamec. So, either explain your revert, or I have to revert you. -- Mazandar ( talk) 20:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
WP:FORUM |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
"Akrad" is the Arabic word for "Kurd". It does not mean and has never meant "nomad". Stop your bullshit and quit changing a historic fact. The book is called "The origins of the Kurds". Not "The origins of the Nomads". If the book is about the origin of the nomads, then is it about all nomads the world has ever known? Do all nomads have the same ancestry? How is it even possible to write a book on the origins of a people with a ***LIFESTYLE***. It is obviously a book about the origins OF AN ETHNIC GROUP. Go to the Arabic page and copy-paste the arabic-written title of that book and paste it in the translation service of your choice; it translates to Kurd and has always meant that. There are plenty of historic castles in Syria and other parts of the Levant with "Akad" in their original name. If you change it again, I will request this item to be revised by an admin and have you banned and this article locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.82.163.173 ( talk) 13:13, 7 July 2017 (UTC) |
@ HistoryofIran: Can you explain us why Ludwig W. Adamec is not a reliable source? Is there a consensus regarding the unreliability of Ludwig W. Adamec? Btw what is the difference between these 1 and 2 edits? Why do you accept one but not the other? I don't think that Persian ethnocentric edits are helpful for neutrality of Wikipedia. ;) Cheers! Gomada ( talk) 12:25, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Why are you trying to erase Kurdish history and personalities when there are reliable sources and documents in these fields? Kurdistan homeland ( talk) 13:00, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
@ HistoryofIran you mentioned yourself that "Didnt write in Persian nor lived in a government where Persian had a official status."
But yet you added "Of Persian stock at the beginning of the article". Can you please fix that? Tekosh ( talk) 16:47, 20 August 2023 (UTC)