This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | → | Archive 27 |
Many African Americans are mixed with Indian blood from India and have South Asian ancestry due to their white British slave owners’s ancestors from England mixing with Indian labourers before slavery in the United States. African Americans are mixed with Indian because England colonized India and race mixed with Indians way before American slavery. Add their Indian/South Asian ancestry to their section.
National Geographic says African Americans have Southwest Asian/Indian ancestry: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/
Leland, J. (1997, July 14). 'Don't show weakness:' Black Americans still shy away from psychotherapy. Newsweek, 130(2), 60.
Lukachko, A., Myer, I., & Hankerson, S. (2015). Religiosity and Mental Health Service Utilization Among African-Americans. The Journal of nervous and mental disease, 203(8), 578-82.
Thompson, V., Bazile, A. and Akbar, M. (2004). African Americans' Perceptions of Psychotherapy and Psychotherapists. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 35(1), pp.19-26.
Turner, N., Hastings, J. and Neighbors, H. (2018). Mental health care treatment seeking among African Americans and Caribbean Blacks: what is the role of religiosity/spirituality?. Aging & Mental Health, pp.1-7.
Earl, T., Alegría, M., Mendieta, F., & Linhart, Y. (2011). “Just Be Straight With Me:” An Exploration of Black Patient Experiences in Initial Mental Health Encounters. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 81(4), 519-525.
Scherezade K Mama, Yisheng Li, Karen Basen-Engquist, Rebecca E Lee, Deborah Thompson, David W Wetter, . . . Lorna H Mcneill. (2016). Psychosocial Mechanisms Linking the Social Environment to Mental Health in African Americans. PLoS ONE, 11(4), E0154035
Villatoro, A., & Aneshensel, C. (2014). Family Influences on the Use of Mental Health Services among African Americans. Journal of Health and Social Behavior, 55(2), 161-180. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.183.98.163 ( talk) 19:10, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Please add the fact that some people described by the term "African American" actually dislike it and prefer to be called black, most notably Morgan Freeman. I can't find an online reference, but it was stated in the biography about him. Also, is it possible to mention something about both the over-broadness of the term and its exclusivity? It encompasses black Americans of Australian descent, for example, whilst not describing white Americans whose parents and/or grandparents fled to the US after Robert Mugabe began his pogrom in Zimbabwe. Naughty Autie. 185.4.118.145 ( talk) 18:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
I can second this with a reference, at least when discussing historical articles. "African-American" was considered offensive according to this black owned newspaper in an article published in 1921. At this time, it implied foreign birth. "According to a statement made to the Black dispatch by Rev. E. W. Perry of tabernacle Baptist Church and Dr. S. C. Snelson, secretary of the Oklahoma City Branch of the National Association for Colored People, And who proceeded down town Thursday...they were directed to fall in line behind the foreign born section of the parade, and directly behind a cage of monkeys. They refused to take this position with the FOREIGN BORN and returned immediately to the Negro section..." [1] 175.36.196.38 ( talk) 08:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
According to this Smithsonian web page, Africans first arrived in North America in the early 1500s. The common statement that Africans arrived in North America in 1619 is incorrect. The Spanish brought slaves with them and set up a colony in 1526 in South Carolina. The Smithsonian web page has more details. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtwhitaker ( talk • contribs)
References
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |website=
(
help)
African descendants inhabit in North, Central, and Southern America, we well as the Caribbean Islands. Thus, the African American(s) geopolitically extends past the USA and should not be separated via politically loaded terminology such as African Diaspora. They occupy the whole western hemisphere, live in various countries and speak multiple languages,etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:371B:A400:7DE9:2D1E:3175:70F1 ( talk) 18:14, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
I saw your message, regarding ihan Omar the news media refer to her as somail-american not African American, that just like calling Michael Jackson Mexican, I understand the sub Saharan thing, but still she reffered as Somali American not African American in media. Hornets23 ( talk) 16:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
"According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%)."
[...]
"In 2008, Barack Obama became the first African American to be elected President of the United States."
His father was an immigrant from Kenya, his mother was white. So how does this make him an "African American"?
-- 92.217.221.205 ( talk) 11:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Guys, guys, guys ... The lead sentence of this article currently defines African Americans as: "an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa". You may or may not agree with that. If you disagree, obtain consensus here to change it to something else. Until that is changed, please use that definition for purposes of this article. It seems to me that, by that definition, Barack Hussein Obama II, the ex U.S. President, is an African American. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:55, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
This pseudolinguistic is only valid when this corroborates with the "Western" pseudohistory? BarbarianAshamedLiar ( talk) 21:29, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (who was famously mistaken for a "recent American immigrant" by French President Nicolas Sarkozy),[272] said "descendants of slaves did not get much of a head start, and I think you continue to see some of the effects of that." She has also rejected an immigrant designation for African Americans and instead prefers the term black or white to denote the African and European U.S. founding populations.
A newer designation, that seeks to distinguish black Americans that descend from victims of chattel slavery in America from more recent black migrants and their descendants, is the acronym ADOS founded by Antonio Moore (Los Angeles lawyer and host of Tonetalks on Dash Radio) and Yvette Carnell (political writer and founder of BreakingBrown). ADOS stands for American Descendants of Slavery and —seeks to reclaim/restore the critical national character of the African American identity and experience, one grounded in the group’s unique lineage, and which is central to their continuing struggle for social and economic justice in the United States [1]. Tkenblack ( talk) 21:03, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There no such person as an African American, We are AMERICAN of African descent. Just like there is no German American, no Italian American, no Polish American, no Mexican American and on and on.
Please put the truth and Not the lies. 99.56.116.222 ( talk) 14:25, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. ‑‑
ElHef (
Meep?)
15:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)In the section "Colonial era", the following sentence is difficult to parse:
"Although some did not have the money to buy their freedom that government measures on slavery allowed a high number of free blacks."
Someone might want to tweak this.
Thanks - 189.122.248.181 ( talk) 07:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Obama technically isn't an American descendant of slavery (ADOS). He is biracial and his black side comes from his Kenyan father. This means while he is the first black or colored president he is not the first African-American president. There has yet to be a president descended from American chattel slavery. DTHEBOSS ( talk) 22:58, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't believe it to be a personal opinion but a fact that Obama is not a descendant of American chattel slavery, therefore, he is not African-American. Obama did not grow up in African-American culture and his folks are not from the South. This article states, "According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[13] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term.". Obama is the son of a Kenyan who would not identify as African-American. Obama is black but is not ethnically African-American. I will concede because that is what is widely believed and reported but it is not truly historically accurate. DTHEBOSS ( talk) 20:32, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
The two Wikipedia articles "African Americans" and "Barack Obama" contradict each other. The "African Americans" article says "The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States.". The "Barack Obama" article says "he was the first African American to be elected to the presidency." Both cannot be true. I think the second sentence of the "African Americans" article should be deleted. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 00:04, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
"are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa."
"the second sentence of this article is highly inappropriate"Why is it inappropriate? It reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."Please explain what is wrong with that. Bus stop ( talk) 14:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Notable Afro-Caribbean Americans are typically referred to as African Americans in media and reliable sources. Three examples are Gwen Ifill, Yamiche Alcindor, and Al Roker. It is therefore wrong to say that African-American typically only applies to those descended from US slaves. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 00:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"That is what the racialists who wrote this article want to say."I don't even know what
"racialists"are but could you please refrain from attributing motives to editors? Bus stop ( talk) 12:09, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"There is an effort to endlessly divvy people up by race and background, and it is reflected in the second sentence of this article."The second sentence reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."In an article with a title like African Americans how does the second sentence
"endlessly divvy people up by race and background"? Bus stop ( talk) 13:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"it divides up those of African ancestry into those whose ancestors were slaves in the United States, and those whose ancestors were not". But the article African Americans distinguishes
"those of African ancestry"from those not of African ancestry. Aren't you saying the article African Americans
"is a form of identity politics"? Bus stop ( talk) 14:19, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Reliable sources typically say that notable Afro-Caribbean Americans are African-American. Check reliable source info on Gwen Ifill, Yamiche Alcindor, and Al Roker as examples. Here is the bottom line: The correctness of the second sentence of this article is controversial. Reliable sources are split. Thus the sentence has no business being in this article. It remains simply because Wikipedia editors have a strong political leaning. It is one of the many examples of liberal bias on Wikipedia. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 22:16, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
The second sentence of this article is offensive to a lot of people in America and around the world. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 13:47, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"The second sentence of this article is offensive to a lot of people in America and around the world."The second sentence reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."Why is that sentence offensive? Bus stop ( talk) 14:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"The term typically refers to white Americans"? This article, African Americans, is saying
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States"because that is a largely true statement, whereas the statement that
"The term typically refers to white Americans", if found in the Americans article, would be a largely untrue statement.
Furthermore the statement that "The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States" is not intended to be definitive. It is meant to suggest a scope for this article and it is also intended to describe in the most basic terms the usages of the term "African Americans". It is not going to go into great detail as it is one of the first sentences in the article. Let me ask you this—how would you rewrite that sentence? Or, how would you prefer to see that area of the lead rewritten? Bus stop ( talk) 15:01, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
While Carribbean Americans may be referred to as African-Americans that is not politically correct. A Jamaican-American is a Jamaican-American not an African-American. Af-Am are their own unique ethnicity with their own unique culture and history. Again, Barack Obama is not an African-American, he is a black man from America but he is not a descendant of slavery and did not grow up in African-American culture at all. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by DTHEBOSS ( talk • contribs) 19:05, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
"grow up in African-American culture"to be African-American? Barack Obama was certainly exposed to "African-American culture" and his appearance aligns with that of African-Americans. Bus stop ( talk) 03:15, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
This conversation began with Barack Obama, and the argument that while Obama is African American, he doesn't meat the "typical" standard of the second sentence of the Wikipedia article. Does this mean Obama is not African American? While DTHEBOSS can believe whatever they want to on this question, the overwhelming majority of reliable sources say he is, so Wikipedia says he is. Is the first Black president a typical African American, probably not, in many ways. Nothing that is atypical about Obama as an African American requires us to revise the African Americans article to better include him.
Nevertheless, the growing presence of foreign-born Black immigrants is a significant feature of African American life and deserves coverage here. We just need to make it clear and succinct in the lead, and leave details to the body of the article. I was going to comment on the original sentence, but it has already been changed so I will dive into the article instead.-- Carwil ( talk) 12:53, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Metaphysical worldviewis the common hypernym of religion and atheism; you erroneously claim that religion is the hypernym of itself, and that any personal belief on metaphysics is necessarily religion or religious (religion requires anti-physics during cosmogony (watch Before the Big Bang 4 on YouTube and all the other episodes) and during the lifespan of the universe; except for deism) // some use faith as a metaphysical worldview hypernym, but it's a problematic noun because it has a religious sense/meaning/definition ==
You are faithist = religious racist. You claim that we should respect the African Americans in respect of the Whites, but we shouldn't respect their beliefs on equal ground!
All African Americans are of equal value! If the non-religious have a big ratio, they should be presented in correct order per population size. No personal opinion is superior! So, we present first the biggest number! Your biased brain is confused, because you claim that the utter hypernym is religion, and the large number of irreligious are problematic non-es, which don't fit the title, and should be mentioned at the end. You are a personocrat at the cosmological level. You claim that personhood is self-causal, precosmic and cosmogonous, even though personhood is not a simple (philosophy) because it is constituted of more fundamental components like memories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:410E:6100:5060:7BCA:BC9B:7A53 ( talk) 19:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I simply came here to elevate the same issue. The page is contradictory stating "The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[13]," yet going on shortly thereafter to list Obama as an African American. Justindya ( talk) 00:43, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
This is not to say Obama is an African immigrant, but he is the child of an African immigrant and a white woman. African American as an ethnic identifier generally points to people who are 1) descendants of American chattel slavery 2) unable to pinpoint their family's African origins due to the cultural maelstrom that was the middle passage. Justindya ( talk) 00:46, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
The Ancestors of African Americans were Slaves who belonged to many different Ethnic Groups from West and Western Central Africa.-- 92.211.155.37 ( talk) 15:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
This
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African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Ciao Fellow Wikipedian Ediors: Perhaps when time permits you might consider amending the section entitled Culture - Music to include an additional paragraph (at the end of the Music subsection) with the following text:
In the realm of classical music, several African-Americans have also made contributions. Included among them was the symphonic orchestra conductor Henry Lewis, who served as music director of the United States Army's Seventh Army Symphony Orchestra in support of America's cultural diplomacy initiatives throughout Europe in the post World War II era. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] Many thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration and best wishes for your continued success on Wikipedia. 104.207.219.150 ( talk) 16:35, 5 September 2019 (UTC)PS
Hello! Your proposed addition is well sourced (we only need two or three references, not eight) but I am not sure it would be appropriate for the way this article is written. It looks as if this is treated as an overall or survey article on the huge subject of African-Americans, without naming many individuals. There is a main article at African-American music, where there already are several paragraphs about the Black influence on classical music. That page is not protected, you could edit it yourself. I suggest you add a sentence about him there; he is clearly an important influence. And maybe something about Henry Lewis also. But just a single sentence and one or two references. I see there are some other important names in classical music that are missing from that section of the Music article - groundbreakers such as Marian Anderson and Paul Robeson for instance. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:10, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Regarding this edit by Kolya Butternut, I reverted. Yes, MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES made it so that "Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members." But it's clear from reading the discussions (one which I was involved in) that a similar problem would result in having a single image as the lead image of this article or, for example, the White Americans article. It's even more of a problem because a single image can in no one way be representative of a topic like this. And MOS:LEADIMAGE is about selecting a representative lead image. While I have entertained having a lead image at the Man and Woman articles, although I disagree with having lead images at those articles (unless a composite) and I disagreed with the processes at Talk:Man/sandbox and Talk:Woman/sandbox, the discussions that resulted in MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES were primarily about "race"/ethnicity, not about gender. It was the "race"/ethnicity articles that were primarily the concern. And we do not need a return to that concern by adding a single image on these "race"/ethnicity articles, as though they can at all be representative of the topic. MOS:LEADIMAGE states, "Lead images are not required, and not having a lead image may be the best solution if there is no easy representation of the topic." This is certainly one of those cases. If Kolya Butternut insists on adding a lead image to this article, after what I stated with this comment, I will ping every active editor that was involved in the discussions that resulted in MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES for their thoughts. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 05:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should this article have a lead image? One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons. For backstory on this matter, see the Talk:African Americans#Reverted recently added lead image section on the article's talk page. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 06:45, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
"One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic". Then you go on to say that
"Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."Both of those sentences are arguments against having a lead image, which uncoincidentally is the view you take, evidenced by your "No" vote. Bus stop ( talk) 13:12, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image? One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."Your
"One view"and your
"Another view"are both views that oppose the inclusion of a lead image. Bus stop ( talk) 17:52, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image?"Bus stop ( talk) 19:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"backstory or summation"in the presentation of the RfC because it is your "backstory or summation". You are a participant in this RfC, are you not? You are weighing in on one particular side of the question that you are raising. If you have a "backstory or summation" that you wish to apprise everyone of, you have ample opportunity to do so in the "Survey" section, where everyone else gets to frame the discussion in their preferred way.
This is
mumbo-jumbo: "One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."
If that is the way you, the initiator of this RfC wishes to frame the debate, you have ample opportunity to tell everyone about in your first post in the "Survey" section of the RfC.
Bus stop (
talk)
21:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image?"Your arguments and your understandings of everyone else's arguments belong in the "Survey" section. Bus stop ( talk) 22:43, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"I don't think this image is a representative image of this article."I believe it is representative of this article. The African Americans article is not simply about people of a particular appearance. The image is especially appropriate because it is a photograph of "a tour of the Jack Hadley Black History Museum in Georgia". The photograph is illustrative of the cohesiveness that establishes the group in the first place. Bus stop ( talk) 00:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
"depict the wide range of people who self-identify as African-American."That is a reference to mere physical appearance. We are trying to depict shared identity. Therefore this image is particularly appropriate. It is an image that actually depicts the topic of this article. That is because the people in it are reflecting on the very identity that this article is about—African Americans. Yes, the people in it look like African Americans. But that is not the primary point. The primary point is that they are reflecting on and contemplating the identity that is the subject of this article. Bus stop ( talk) 06:36, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
"Close RfC as premature" piece moved here from the initial area:
Mcelite, just to clarify, I don't think we should make a decision to have an image or not have an image here. I think we should leave the option open; that's part of the reason I object to this RfC. But I think that having an image of a non-celebrity who looks like Halle Berry in a group photo for the English Americans article would be educational, just as having an image of someone who looks like Mariah Carey would be in an image here. Many people don't know that African Americans are on average around 25% European American. I think most of the conflict comes from having galleries of famous people, or any galleries. Non-contrived group photos of people who are African American may or may not be supported by a consensus of editors. Kolya Butternut ( talk) 03:50, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
I think people who come here will have the same questions that have come up in these discussions. The article itself can explain that "You can be biracial and black" [3], but a lead image could immediately communicate what that diversity can actually look like, and I think it deserves more discussion with examples. Kolya Butternut ( talk) 13:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | → | Archive 27 |
Many African Americans are mixed with Indian blood from India and have South Asian ancestry due to their white British slave owners’s ancestors from England mixing with Indian labourers before slavery in the United States. African Americans are mixed with Indian because England colonized India and race mixed with Indians way before American slavery. Add their Indian/South Asian ancestry to their section.
National Geographic says African Americans have Southwest Asian/Indian ancestry: https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/
Leland, J. (1997, July 14). 'Don't show weakness:' Black Americans still shy away from psychotherapy. Newsweek, 130(2), 60.
Lukachko, A., Myer, I., & Hankerson, S. (2015). Religiosity and Mental Health Service Utilization Among African-Americans. The Journal of nervous and mental disease, 203(8), 578-82.
Thompson, V., Bazile, A. and Akbar, M. (2004). African Americans' Perceptions of Psychotherapy and Psychotherapists. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 35(1), pp.19-26.
Turner, N., Hastings, J. and Neighbors, H. (2018). Mental health care treatment seeking among African Americans and Caribbean Blacks: what is the role of religiosity/spirituality?. Aging & Mental Health, pp.1-7.
Earl, T., Alegría, M., Mendieta, F., & Linhart, Y. (2011). “Just Be Straight With Me:” An Exploration of Black Patient Experiences in Initial Mental Health Encounters. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry, 81(4), 519-525.
Scherezade K Mama, Yisheng Li, Karen Basen-Engquist, Rebecca E Lee, Deborah Thompson, David W Wetter, . . . Lorna H Mcneill. (2016). Psychosocial Mechanisms Linking the Social Environment to Mental Health in African Americans. PLoS ONE, 11(4), E0154035
Villatoro, A., & Aneshensel, C. (2014). Family Influences on the Use of Mental Health Services among African Americans. Journal of Health and Social Behavior, 55(2), 161-180. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.183.98.163 ( talk) 19:10, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Please add the fact that some people described by the term "African American" actually dislike it and prefer to be called black, most notably Morgan Freeman. I can't find an online reference, but it was stated in the biography about him. Also, is it possible to mention something about both the over-broadness of the term and its exclusivity? It encompasses black Americans of Australian descent, for example, whilst not describing white Americans whose parents and/or grandparents fled to the US after Robert Mugabe began his pogrom in Zimbabwe. Naughty Autie. 185.4.118.145 ( talk) 18:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
I can second this with a reference, at least when discussing historical articles. "African-American" was considered offensive according to this black owned newspaper in an article published in 1921. At this time, it implied foreign birth. "According to a statement made to the Black dispatch by Rev. E. W. Perry of tabernacle Baptist Church and Dr. S. C. Snelson, secretary of the Oklahoma City Branch of the National Association for Colored People, And who proceeded down town Thursday...they were directed to fall in line behind the foreign born section of the parade, and directly behind a cage of monkeys. They refused to take this position with the FOREIGN BORN and returned immediately to the Negro section..." [1] 175.36.196.38 ( talk) 08:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 08:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
According to this Smithsonian web page, Africans first arrived in North America in the early 1500s. The common statement that Africans arrived in North America in 1619 is incorrect. The Spanish brought slaves with them and set up a colony in 1526 in South Carolina. The Smithsonian web page has more details. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtwhitaker ( talk • contribs)
References
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |website=
(
help)
African descendants inhabit in North, Central, and Southern America, we well as the Caribbean Islands. Thus, the African American(s) geopolitically extends past the USA and should not be separated via politically loaded terminology such as African Diaspora. They occupy the whole western hemisphere, live in various countries and speak multiple languages,etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:371B:A400:7DE9:2D1E:3175:70F1 ( talk) 18:14, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
I saw your message, regarding ihan Omar the news media refer to her as somail-american not African American, that just like calling Michael Jackson Mexican, I understand the sub Saharan thing, but still she reffered as Somali American not African American in media. Hornets23 ( talk) 16:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
"According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%)."
[...]
"In 2008, Barack Obama became the first African American to be elected President of the United States."
His father was an immigrant from Kenya, his mother was white. So how does this make him an "African American"?
-- 92.217.221.205 ( talk) 11:46, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Guys, guys, guys ... The lead sentence of this article currently defines African Americans as: "an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa". You may or may not agree with that. If you disagree, obtain consensus here to change it to something else. Until that is changed, please use that definition for purposes of this article. It seems to me that, by that definition, Barack Hussein Obama II, the ex U.S. President, is an African American. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:55, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
This pseudolinguistic is only valid when this corroborates with the "Western" pseudohistory? BarbarianAshamedLiar ( talk) 21:29, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (who was famously mistaken for a "recent American immigrant" by French President Nicolas Sarkozy),[272] said "descendants of slaves did not get much of a head start, and I think you continue to see some of the effects of that." She has also rejected an immigrant designation for African Americans and instead prefers the term black or white to denote the African and European U.S. founding populations.
A newer designation, that seeks to distinguish black Americans that descend from victims of chattel slavery in America from more recent black migrants and their descendants, is the acronym ADOS founded by Antonio Moore (Los Angeles lawyer and host of Tonetalks on Dash Radio) and Yvette Carnell (political writer and founder of BreakingBrown). ADOS stands for American Descendants of Slavery and —seeks to reclaim/restore the critical national character of the African American identity and experience, one grounded in the group’s unique lineage, and which is central to their continuing struggle for social and economic justice in the United States [1]. Tkenblack ( talk) 21:03, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There no such person as an African American, We are AMERICAN of African descent. Just like there is no German American, no Italian American, no Polish American, no Mexican American and on and on.
Please put the truth and Not the lies. 99.56.116.222 ( talk) 14:25, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
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ElHef (
Meep?)
15:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)In the section "Colonial era", the following sentence is difficult to parse:
"Although some did not have the money to buy their freedom that government measures on slavery allowed a high number of free blacks."
Someone might want to tweak this.
Thanks - 189.122.248.181 ( talk) 07:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Obama technically isn't an American descendant of slavery (ADOS). He is biracial and his black side comes from his Kenyan father. This means while he is the first black or colored president he is not the first African-American president. There has yet to be a president descended from American chattel slavery. DTHEBOSS ( talk) 22:58, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't believe it to be a personal opinion but a fact that Obama is not a descendant of American chattel slavery, therefore, he is not African-American. Obama did not grow up in African-American culture and his folks are not from the South. This article states, "According to U.S. Census Bureau data, African immigrants generally do not self-identify as African American. The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[13] Immigrants from some Caribbean, Central American and South American nations and their descendants may or may not also self-identify with the term.". Obama is the son of a Kenyan who would not identify as African-American. Obama is black but is not ethnically African-American. I will concede because that is what is widely believed and reported but it is not truly historically accurate. DTHEBOSS ( talk) 20:32, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
The two Wikipedia articles "African Americans" and "Barack Obama" contradict each other. The "African Americans" article says "The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States.". The "Barack Obama" article says "he was the first African American to be elected to the presidency." Both cannot be true. I think the second sentence of the "African Americans" article should be deleted. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 00:04, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
"are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the black racial groups of Africa."
"the second sentence of this article is highly inappropriate"Why is it inappropriate? It reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."Please explain what is wrong with that. Bus stop ( talk) 14:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Notable Afro-Caribbean Americans are typically referred to as African Americans in media and reliable sources. Three examples are Gwen Ifill, Yamiche Alcindor, and Al Roker. It is therefore wrong to say that African-American typically only applies to those descended from US slaves. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 00:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"That is what the racialists who wrote this article want to say."I don't even know what
"racialists"are but could you please refrain from attributing motives to editors? Bus stop ( talk) 12:09, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"There is an effort to endlessly divvy people up by race and background, and it is reflected in the second sentence of this article."The second sentence reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."In an article with a title like African Americans how does the second sentence
"endlessly divvy people up by race and background"? Bus stop ( talk) 13:07, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"it divides up those of African ancestry into those whose ancestors were slaves in the United States, and those whose ancestors were not". But the article African Americans distinguishes
"those of African ancestry"from those not of African ancestry. Aren't you saying the article African Americans
"is a form of identity politics"? Bus stop ( talk) 14:19, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Reliable sources typically say that notable Afro-Caribbean Americans are African-American. Check reliable source info on Gwen Ifill, Yamiche Alcindor, and Al Roker as examples. Here is the bottom line: The correctness of the second sentence of this article is controversial. Reliable sources are split. Thus the sentence has no business being in this article. It remains simply because Wikipedia editors have a strong political leaning. It is one of the many examples of liberal bias on Wikipedia. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 22:16, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
The second sentence of this article is offensive to a lot of people in America and around the world. -- Westwind273 ( talk) 13:47, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"The second sentence of this article is offensive to a lot of people in America and around the world."The second sentence reads
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States."Why is that sentence offensive? Bus stop ( talk) 14:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
"The term typically refers to white Americans"? This article, African Americans, is saying
"The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States"because that is a largely true statement, whereas the statement that
"The term typically refers to white Americans", if found in the Americans article, would be a largely untrue statement.
Furthermore the statement that "The term typically refers to descendants of enslaved black people who are from the United States" is not intended to be definitive. It is meant to suggest a scope for this article and it is also intended to describe in the most basic terms the usages of the term "African Americans". It is not going to go into great detail as it is one of the first sentences in the article. Let me ask you this—how would you rewrite that sentence? Or, how would you prefer to see that area of the lead rewritten? Bus stop ( talk) 15:01, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
While Carribbean Americans may be referred to as African-Americans that is not politically correct. A Jamaican-American is a Jamaican-American not an African-American. Af-Am are their own unique ethnicity with their own unique culture and history. Again, Barack Obama is not an African-American, he is a black man from America but he is not a descendant of slavery and did not grow up in African-American culture at all. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by DTHEBOSS ( talk • contribs) 19:05, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
"grow up in African-American culture"to be African-American? Barack Obama was certainly exposed to "African-American culture" and his appearance aligns with that of African-Americans. Bus stop ( talk) 03:15, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
This conversation began with Barack Obama, and the argument that while Obama is African American, he doesn't meat the "typical" standard of the second sentence of the Wikipedia article. Does this mean Obama is not African American? While DTHEBOSS can believe whatever they want to on this question, the overwhelming majority of reliable sources say he is, so Wikipedia says he is. Is the first Black president a typical African American, probably not, in many ways. Nothing that is atypical about Obama as an African American requires us to revise the African Americans article to better include him.
Nevertheless, the growing presence of foreign-born Black immigrants is a significant feature of African American life and deserves coverage here. We just need to make it clear and succinct in the lead, and leave details to the body of the article. I was going to comment on the original sentence, but it has already been changed so I will dive into the article instead.-- Carwil ( talk) 12:53, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Metaphysical worldviewis the common hypernym of religion and atheism; you erroneously claim that religion is the hypernym of itself, and that any personal belief on metaphysics is necessarily religion or religious (religion requires anti-physics during cosmogony (watch Before the Big Bang 4 on YouTube and all the other episodes) and during the lifespan of the universe; except for deism) // some use faith as a metaphysical worldview hypernym, but it's a problematic noun because it has a religious sense/meaning/definition ==
You are faithist = religious racist. You claim that we should respect the African Americans in respect of the Whites, but we shouldn't respect their beliefs on equal ground!
All African Americans are of equal value! If the non-religious have a big ratio, they should be presented in correct order per population size. No personal opinion is superior! So, we present first the biggest number! Your biased brain is confused, because you claim that the utter hypernym is religion, and the large number of irreligious are problematic non-es, which don't fit the title, and should be mentioned at the end. You are a personocrat at the cosmological level. You claim that personhood is self-causal, precosmic and cosmogonous, even though personhood is not a simple (philosophy) because it is constituted of more fundamental components like memories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:410E:6100:5060:7BCA:BC9B:7A53 ( talk) 19:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
I simply came here to elevate the same issue. The page is contradictory stating "The overwhelming majority of African immigrants identify instead with their own respective ethnicities (≈95%).[13]," yet going on shortly thereafter to list Obama as an African American. Justindya ( talk) 00:43, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
This is not to say Obama is an African immigrant, but he is the child of an African immigrant and a white woman. African American as an ethnic identifier generally points to people who are 1) descendants of American chattel slavery 2) unable to pinpoint their family's African origins due to the cultural maelstrom that was the middle passage. Justindya ( talk) 00:46, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
The Ancestors of African Americans were Slaves who belonged to many different Ethnic Groups from West and Western Central Africa.-- 92.211.155.37 ( talk) 15:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
African Americans has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Ciao Fellow Wikipedian Ediors: Perhaps when time permits you might consider amending the section entitled Culture - Music to include an additional paragraph (at the end of the Music subsection) with the following text:
In the realm of classical music, several African-Americans have also made contributions. Included among them was the symphonic orchestra conductor Henry Lewis, who served as music director of the United States Army's Seventh Army Symphony Orchestra in support of America's cultural diplomacy initiatives throughout Europe in the post World War II era. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] Many thanks in advance for your thoughtful consideration and best wishes for your continued success on Wikipedia. 104.207.219.150 ( talk) 16:35, 5 September 2019 (UTC)PS
Hello! Your proposed addition is well sourced (we only need two or three references, not eight) but I am not sure it would be appropriate for the way this article is written. It looks as if this is treated as an overall or survey article on the huge subject of African-Americans, without naming many individuals. There is a main article at African-American music, where there already are several paragraphs about the Black influence on classical music. That page is not protected, you could edit it yourself. I suggest you add a sentence about him there; he is clearly an important influence. And maybe something about Henry Lewis also. But just a single sentence and one or two references. I see there are some other important names in classical music that are missing from that section of the Music article - groundbreakers such as Marian Anderson and Paul Robeson for instance. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:10, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Regarding this edit by Kolya Butternut, I reverted. Yes, MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES made it so that "Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members." But it's clear from reading the discussions (one which I was involved in) that a similar problem would result in having a single image as the lead image of this article or, for example, the White Americans article. It's even more of a problem because a single image can in no one way be representative of a topic like this. And MOS:LEADIMAGE is about selecting a representative lead image. While I have entertained having a lead image at the Man and Woman articles, although I disagree with having lead images at those articles (unless a composite) and I disagreed with the processes at Talk:Man/sandbox and Talk:Woman/sandbox, the discussions that resulted in MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES were primarily about "race"/ethnicity, not about gender. It was the "race"/ethnicity articles that were primarily the concern. And we do not need a return to that concern by adding a single image on these "race"/ethnicity articles, as though they can at all be representative of the topic. MOS:LEADIMAGE states, "Lead images are not required, and not having a lead image may be the best solution if there is no easy representation of the topic." This is certainly one of those cases. If Kolya Butternut insists on adding a lead image to this article, after what I stated with this comment, I will ping every active editor that was involved in the discussions that resulted in MOS:NOETHNICGALLERIES for their thoughts. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 05:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should this article have a lead image? One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons. For backstory on this matter, see the Talk:African Americans#Reverted recently added lead image section on the article's talk page. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 06:45, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
"One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic". Then you go on to say that
"Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."Both of those sentences are arguments against having a lead image, which uncoincidentally is the view you take, evidenced by your "No" vote. Bus stop ( talk) 13:12, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image? One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."Your
"One view"and your
"Another view"are both views that oppose the inclusion of a lead image. Bus stop ( talk) 17:52, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image?"Bus stop ( talk) 19:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"backstory or summation"in the presentation of the RfC because it is your "backstory or summation". You are a participant in this RfC, are you not? You are weighing in on one particular side of the question that you are raising. If you have a "backstory or summation" that you wish to apprise everyone of, you have ample opportunity to do so in the "Survey" section, where everyone else gets to frame the discussion in their preferred way.
This is
mumbo-jumbo: "One view is that we shouldn't use a lead image because no lead image can adequately represent this topic, and MOS:LEADIMAGE addresses this type of thing. Another view is that a single lead image does not give the impression of representing all people, but simply represents an example of a person or persons."
If that is the way you, the initiator of this RfC wishes to frame the debate, you have ample opportunity to tell everyone about in your first post in the "Survey" section of the RfC.
Bus stop (
talk)
21:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"Should this article have a lead image?"Your arguments and your understandings of everyone else's arguments belong in the "Survey" section. Bus stop ( talk) 22:43, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
"I don't think this image is a representative image of this article."I believe it is representative of this article. The African Americans article is not simply about people of a particular appearance. The image is especially appropriate because it is a photograph of "a tour of the Jack Hadley Black History Museum in Georgia". The photograph is illustrative of the cohesiveness that establishes the group in the first place. Bus stop ( talk) 00:32, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
"depict the wide range of people who self-identify as African-American."That is a reference to mere physical appearance. We are trying to depict shared identity. Therefore this image is particularly appropriate. It is an image that actually depicts the topic of this article. That is because the people in it are reflecting on the very identity that this article is about—African Americans. Yes, the people in it look like African Americans. But that is not the primary point. The primary point is that they are reflecting on and contemplating the identity that is the subject of this article. Bus stop ( talk) 06:36, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
"Close RfC as premature" piece moved here from the initial area:
Mcelite, just to clarify, I don't think we should make a decision to have an image or not have an image here. I think we should leave the option open; that's part of the reason I object to this RfC. But I think that having an image of a non-celebrity who looks like Halle Berry in a group photo for the English Americans article would be educational, just as having an image of someone who looks like Mariah Carey would be in an image here. Many people don't know that African Americans are on average around 25% European American. I think most of the conflict comes from having galleries of famous people, or any galleries. Non-contrived group photos of people who are African American may or may not be supported by a consensus of editors. Kolya Butternut ( talk) 03:50, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
I think people who come here will have the same questions that have come up in these discussions. The article itself can explain that "You can be biracial and black" [3], but a lead image could immediately communicate what that diversity can actually look like, and I think it deserves more discussion with examples. Kolya Butternut ( talk) 13:10, 23 June 2019 (UTC)