Acts of Peter and the Twelve has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: May 24, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
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Did you know column on 3 July 2023 (
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The full title of this text is "The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.27.53 ( talk) 01:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Jenhawk777 ( talk · contribs) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
Hello TriplePowered, I am Jenhawk777. I was asked to review this article by Mike Christie, so I am going to begin. Looking forward to working with you. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
The result was: promoted by
Aoidh (
talk) 21:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by TriplePowered ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 00:18, 31 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Acts of Peter and the Twelve; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
I know this article has been declared good, but the plot section is a WP:PARAPHRASE of the text. I realize it may seem odd to complain about copious cites, but in this case, virtually the entire story is reproduced piecemeal in the footnote section, a clear case of WP:CITEKILL. A single cite at the end of the plot section w/ no reproduction of original text would be far more encyclopedic and would be supported under WP:REPCITE. Just Another Cringy Username ( talk) 02:40, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
A general comment: I suggested once that WP:RSPSCRIPTURE should say something like "a MOS:PLOTSOURCE approach can work well regarding some scriptural stories." It caused a bit of discussion: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_327#Scriptural_texts_(WP:RSPSCRIPTURE). Perhaps you'll find the arguments interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which of the following versions of the Summary section should be used? Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
A – The existing version in Acts_of_Peter_and_the_Twelve#Summary ?
B – The trimmed version in Draft:Acts of Peter and the Twelve/Summary ?
Enter your choice in the Survey with a brief statement. Do not reply to the posts of other editors in the Survey. You may discuss in the Discussion section; that's what it's for. Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
A, with minor changes – In articles on religious texts, a high level of detail is important and appropriate, even for an encyclopedia. The existing version could use a minor copyedit for legibility, and the number and density of citations is clearly excessive. However, I don't think it should be substantially trimmed. Actualcpscm ( talk) 12:01, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
B with more inline citations. I think that the extra details in the longer version could do more harm than good, as their purpose is unclear and they could cause readers to lose interest. If there are a few details missing from the trimmed version that people find especially important, I would not oppose expanding it slightly to find a sort of middle ground between the two. — Freoh 15:22, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Both seem fine. I found it a hard to follow the longer version. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 15:52, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
B as a basis. The level of detail and the number of citations in A are excessive. I wouldn't even call it a summary, it seems more like a paraphrase. The quotes in the footnotes are unnecessary and I'm wondering whether they really don't constitute a copyright violation: we have a lot of quotes from a very short text. There are some issues with B, too. It takes the number of citations to the other extreme. I think the right amount of citations lies in between (although far closer to B than to A). Some relevant details are left out, e.g. the pearl is mentioned in the analysis, so it should be mentioned in the summary. I'd also like to point out that neither version conforms to WP:RSPSCRIPTURE. B is not perfect, but it is far better than A. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 06:30, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
A, with minor changes (summoned by bot) As Actualcpscm has said, religious texts warrant a highly detailed summary. The summary does need some citation cleanup, because in its current state, it is hard to read. The number of citations is unnecessary and it is in need of a copyedit, but nothing major. Grumpylawnchair ( talk) 18:00, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
A. The idea that classical texts, especially religious ones, should be described at the same level of detail as episodes of The Bachelor is fatuous and destructive. 104.226.30.18 ( talk) 21:32, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Freoh I don't think retaining user attention is a major priority; comprehensiveness is much more important than managing reader interest. Of course articles shouldn't go into absurd technical detail, but there is real encyclopedic value in a thorough summary. I'm also not sure why the purpose of the additional detail is unclear – it's there to provide relevant information, and such a level of detail is quite useful for the vast majority of readers seeking out this kind of article. Actualcpscm ( talk) 16:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Re:quotes in footnotes The original [3] has 2210 words. The quotes in the footnotes have 885 words. That's 40%. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 06:45, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Question both summaries mention ""endure the trials and difficulties of the storms"". What storms? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:35, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
I responded, saying, "Justly [...] have men named it [...], because (by) everyone who endures his trials, cities are inhabited, and a precious kingdom comes from them, because they endure in the midst of the apostasies and the difficulties of the storms. So that in this way, the city of everyone who endures the burden of his yoke of faith will be inhabited, and he will be included in the kingdom of heaven."[4] Note that "[...]" seems to mark gaps in the original. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 12:47, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment: Let it be noted that the unregistered IP which made the most recent vote has a history of following me around and reverting my edits. I have reported it to ANI. Just Another Cringy Username ( talk) 07:22, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Acts of Peter and the Twelve has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: May 24, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
A fact from Acts of Peter and the Twelve appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 3 July 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The full title of this text is "The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.27.53 ( talk) 01:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Jenhawk777 ( talk · contribs) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
Hello TriplePowered, I am Jenhawk777. I was asked to review this article by Mike Christie, so I am going to begin. Looking forward to working with you. Jenhawk777 ( talk) 15:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
The result was: promoted by
Aoidh (
talk) 21:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by TriplePowered ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 00:18, 31 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Acts of Peter and the Twelve; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
I know this article has been declared good, but the plot section is a WP:PARAPHRASE of the text. I realize it may seem odd to complain about copious cites, but in this case, virtually the entire story is reproduced piecemeal in the footnote section, a clear case of WP:CITEKILL. A single cite at the end of the plot section w/ no reproduction of original text would be far more encyclopedic and would be supported under WP:REPCITE. Just Another Cringy Username ( talk) 02:40, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
A general comment: I suggested once that WP:RSPSCRIPTURE should say something like "a MOS:PLOTSOURCE approach can work well regarding some scriptural stories." It caused a bit of discussion: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_327#Scriptural_texts_(WP:RSPSCRIPTURE). Perhaps you'll find the arguments interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 08:53, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which of the following versions of the Summary section should be used? Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
A – The existing version in Acts_of_Peter_and_the_Twelve#Summary ?
B – The trimmed version in Draft:Acts of Peter and the Twelve/Summary ?
Enter your choice in the Survey with a brief statement. Do not reply to the posts of other editors in the Survey. You may discuss in the Discussion section; that's what it's for. Robert McClenon ( talk) 04:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
A, with minor changes – In articles on religious texts, a high level of detail is important and appropriate, even for an encyclopedia. The existing version could use a minor copyedit for legibility, and the number and density of citations is clearly excessive. However, I don't think it should be substantially trimmed. Actualcpscm ( talk) 12:01, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
B with more inline citations. I think that the extra details in the longer version could do more harm than good, as their purpose is unclear and they could cause readers to lose interest. If there are a few details missing from the trimmed version that people find especially important, I would not oppose expanding it slightly to find a sort of middle ground between the two. — Freoh 15:22, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Both seem fine. I found it a hard to follow the longer version. Cuñado ☼ - Talk 15:52, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
B as a basis. The level of detail and the number of citations in A are excessive. I wouldn't even call it a summary, it seems more like a paraphrase. The quotes in the footnotes are unnecessary and I'm wondering whether they really don't constitute a copyright violation: we have a lot of quotes from a very short text. There are some issues with B, too. It takes the number of citations to the other extreme. I think the right amount of citations lies in between (although far closer to B than to A). Some relevant details are left out, e.g. the pearl is mentioned in the analysis, so it should be mentioned in the summary. I'd also like to point out that neither version conforms to WP:RSPSCRIPTURE. B is not perfect, but it is far better than A. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 06:30, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
A, with minor changes (summoned by bot) As Actualcpscm has said, religious texts warrant a highly detailed summary. The summary does need some citation cleanup, because in its current state, it is hard to read. The number of citations is unnecessary and it is in need of a copyedit, but nothing major. Grumpylawnchair ( talk) 18:00, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
A. The idea that classical texts, especially religious ones, should be described at the same level of detail as episodes of The Bachelor is fatuous and destructive. 104.226.30.18 ( talk) 21:32, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
Freoh I don't think retaining user attention is a major priority; comprehensiveness is much more important than managing reader interest. Of course articles shouldn't go into absurd technical detail, but there is real encyclopedic value in a thorough summary. I'm also not sure why the purpose of the additional detail is unclear – it's there to provide relevant information, and such a level of detail is quite useful for the vast majority of readers seeking out this kind of article. Actualcpscm ( talk) 16:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Re:quotes in footnotes The original [3] has 2210 words. The quotes in the footnotes have 885 words. That's 40%. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 06:45, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Question both summaries mention ""endure the trials and difficulties of the storms"". What storms? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:35, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
I responded, saying, "Justly [...] have men named it [...], because (by) everyone who endures his trials, cities are inhabited, and a precious kingdom comes from them, because they endure in the midst of the apostasies and the difficulties of the storms. So that in this way, the city of everyone who endures the burden of his yoke of faith will be inhabited, and he will be included in the kingdom of heaven."[4] Note that "[...]" seems to mark gaps in the original. -- Random person no 362478479 ( talk) 12:47, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment: Let it be noted that the unregistered IP which made the most recent vote has a history of following me around and reverting my edits. I have reported it to ANI. Just Another Cringy Username ( talk) 07:22, 12 August 2023 (UTC)