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Is transliteration really the best way to introduce the Russian term "попаданец"? While this term may have no obvious counterpart in English as of now, it doesn't mean such a counterpart cannot be created via translation, if only to give the impression the word conveys in Russian. I personally would suggest something like endupper or even 'vegotintotler. The latter may be a little bit awkward but it also conveys the hidden connotations, even though they are insignificant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.175.70.185 ( talk) 07:42, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
[1] a 2019 literary research russian article about popadantsy in non-russian cinema. This russian article has a summary in english. One can readily see it was created using "google translate" with no postprocessing whstsoever. And I was amused to see that google used the term "accidental travel" I scrambled based on expression "accidental time travel" after really long and exhausting google search. It looks like english speaking literary critics have been completely overlooking the genre. While russian ones wrote tons about it. - Altenmann >talk 06:17, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
The page cited, as I read it, says the characters are popadantsy and the genre is popadanstvo (noun) or popadancheskoy (adjective). — Tamfang ( talk) 04:12, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am proposing a merger between this article ( Accidental travel) and isekai, as the isekai page in its current state is largely made up of monotonous listings of isekai genre works and contains very little information that differentiates it from other works in the accidental travel genre outside of a few recent superficial trends. Although the article could be justified to be independent if enough reliable sources demonstrated how it is its own genre rather than a closely related offshoot, the existence on this page of a description for isekai seems like a better place to hold the relevant information. As it is now, the isekai article is mostly just listings of isekai anime and light novels (some, such as the sauna one, dubiously notable) and almost all the citations are paid promotions or top ten lists rather than reliable sourcing. While some reliable sources exist in the form of scholarly articles on isekai or descriptions of the genre, none of these seem to signify anything that makes the genre unique from accidental travel outside of the country of origin. Deku link ( talk) 21:04, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
This article consists of three parts, which (TL;DR) I believe violate WP:SYNTH for being discussed in this article.
Least problematic is the summary of Japanese isekai concept.
Then there is the discussion of the Russian term popadanstvo. This is also salvagable as it seems used in some Russian-language studies (AGFing from a quick scan and machine translation of some soruces here and on Russian Wikiepdia, plus stuff like [2] and [3]), and the term even exists, if marginally, in English academic literature ( source - two paragraphs, reprint of the same); note that this term might also be discussed under variant spellings (translitration from cyryllic to English is, like all transliteration, often imperfect; I did check for popadancheskoy but I didn't found anything).
The big problem is the poorly referenced "Types" section, plus the general framing of this article. Sure, we all can see the connections between iseaki, popadanstvo, and overall what TV tropes calls https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrappedInAnotherWorld . The problem is that I couldn't find any reliable source that makes this connection. The Types section opens with "The accidental time travel trope is specifically known as time slip. A classical example of time slip is Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1889), which had considerable influence on later writers." citing The Cambridge Companion to Fantasy Literature, which does mention that work, but does not mention the term "accidental travel". Twain's work is used as an example of intrusion fantasy, a term attributed to a typology by Farah Mendlesoh. Neither does the source use the term time slip. Then there is some content likewise dubiously referenced to a Russian source on popadanstvo (I say dubiously, as our wiki text mentions stuff like iseaki or RPG, which aren't in the Russian text, as far as I can make out from machine translation). The rest of this section is unreferenced.
I did find [4], a reliable work which could be used to reference the time slip/accidental travel, but it's from 2022 and I wouldn't be surprised if the writer used Wikipedia as a source. But there's no smoking gun, but the problem is WP:SIGCOV.
Overall, there is some salvagable content here, but how much of the article should be TNTed? Should this be moved to popadanstvo and rewritten as a term from Russian literary / sf / fantasy studies? If we want to keep it in English, we need arguably a better term than "accidental travel", and ideally some scholarly work that actually discusses popadanstvo, Yankee in King Author's Court, and iseak in the same text. For now I've tagged this article with {{ original research}}, b/c it is a a problem.
Ping User:TompaDompa, User:ReaderofthePack, User:Daranios, User:Jclemens. Do ping anyone else you think could be interested in this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is transliteration really the best way to introduce the Russian term "попаданец"? While this term may have no obvious counterpart in English as of now, it doesn't mean such a counterpart cannot be created via translation, if only to give the impression the word conveys in Russian. I personally would suggest something like endupper or even 'vegotintotler. The latter may be a little bit awkward but it also conveys the hidden connotations, even though they are insignificant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.175.70.185 ( talk) 07:42, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
[1] a 2019 literary research russian article about popadantsy in non-russian cinema. This russian article has a summary in english. One can readily see it was created using "google translate" with no postprocessing whstsoever. And I was amused to see that google used the term "accidental travel" I scrambled based on expression "accidental time travel" after really long and exhausting google search. It looks like english speaking literary critics have been completely overlooking the genre. While russian ones wrote tons about it. - Altenmann >talk 06:17, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
The page cited, as I read it, says the characters are popadantsy and the genre is popadanstvo (noun) or popadancheskoy (adjective). — Tamfang ( talk) 04:12, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am proposing a merger between this article ( Accidental travel) and isekai, as the isekai page in its current state is largely made up of monotonous listings of isekai genre works and contains very little information that differentiates it from other works in the accidental travel genre outside of a few recent superficial trends. Although the article could be justified to be independent if enough reliable sources demonstrated how it is its own genre rather than a closely related offshoot, the existence on this page of a description for isekai seems like a better place to hold the relevant information. As it is now, the isekai article is mostly just listings of isekai anime and light novels (some, such as the sauna one, dubiously notable) and almost all the citations are paid promotions or top ten lists rather than reliable sourcing. While some reliable sources exist in the form of scholarly articles on isekai or descriptions of the genre, none of these seem to signify anything that makes the genre unique from accidental travel outside of the country of origin. Deku link ( talk) 21:04, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
This article consists of three parts, which (TL;DR) I believe violate WP:SYNTH for being discussed in this article.
Least problematic is the summary of Japanese isekai concept.
Then there is the discussion of the Russian term popadanstvo. This is also salvagable as it seems used in some Russian-language studies (AGFing from a quick scan and machine translation of some soruces here and on Russian Wikiepdia, plus stuff like [2] and [3]), and the term even exists, if marginally, in English academic literature ( source - two paragraphs, reprint of the same); note that this term might also be discussed under variant spellings (translitration from cyryllic to English is, like all transliteration, often imperfect; I did check for popadancheskoy but I didn't found anything).
The big problem is the poorly referenced "Types" section, plus the general framing of this article. Sure, we all can see the connections between iseaki, popadanstvo, and overall what TV tropes calls https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrappedInAnotherWorld . The problem is that I couldn't find any reliable source that makes this connection. The Types section opens with "The accidental time travel trope is specifically known as time slip. A classical example of time slip is Mark Twain's A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court (1889), which had considerable influence on later writers." citing The Cambridge Companion to Fantasy Literature, which does mention that work, but does not mention the term "accidental travel". Twain's work is used as an example of intrusion fantasy, a term attributed to a typology by Farah Mendlesoh. Neither does the source use the term time slip. Then there is some content likewise dubiously referenced to a Russian source on popadanstvo (I say dubiously, as our wiki text mentions stuff like iseaki or RPG, which aren't in the Russian text, as far as I can make out from machine translation). The rest of this section is unreferenced.
I did find [4], a reliable work which could be used to reference the time slip/accidental travel, but it's from 2022 and I wouldn't be surprised if the writer used Wikipedia as a source. But there's no smoking gun, but the problem is WP:SIGCOV.
Overall, there is some salvagable content here, but how much of the article should be TNTed? Should this be moved to popadanstvo and rewritten as a term from Russian literary / sf / fantasy studies? If we want to keep it in English, we need arguably a better term than "accidental travel", and ideally some scholarly work that actually discusses popadanstvo, Yankee in King Author's Court, and iseak in the same text. For now I've tagged this article with {{ original research}}, b/c it is a a problem.
Ping User:TompaDompa, User:ReaderofthePack, User:Daranios, User:Jclemens. Do ping anyone else you think could be interested in this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)