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- While reading this page I wondered why would
- Portuguese traders seize the island of Hormoz. - - Should it not be Portuguese colonialist seized the island of Hormoz and Shah Abbas I send them a warning to leave or else, and apparently the " else " was, they were thrown in to the water full of sharks.
the entire paragraph here: In 1609-1610, a long battle broke out between Kurds and Safavid Empire. It took place around a fortress called "Dimdim" located in Beradost region around Lake Urmia in north western Iran. In 1609, the ruined structure was rebuilt by "Emîr Xan Lepzêrîn" (Golden Hand Khan), ruler of Beradost, who sought to maintain the independence of his expanding principality in the face of both Ottoman and Safavid penetration into the region. Rebuilding of Dimdim was considered a move toward independence that could threaten Safavid power in the northwest. Many Kurds, including the rulers of Mukriyan (Mahabad), rallied around Amir Khan. After a long and bloody siege led by the Safavid grand vizier Hatem Beg, which lasted from November 1609 to the summer of 1610, Dimdim was captured. All the defenders were massacred. Shah Abbas ordered a general massacre in Beradost and Mukriyan(Mahabad) (Reported by Eskandar Beg Monshi, Safavid Historian (1557-1642) in the Book "Alam Ara Abbasi") and resettled the Turkish Afshar tribe in the region while deporting many Kurdish tribes to Khorasan. (see [1] and [2]). Also see " O. Dzh. Dzhalilov, Kurdski geroicheski epos Zlatoruki Khan" (The Kurdish heroic epic Gold-hand Khan), Moscow, 1967.
Is copied from here. It should be removed.
Ori Redler 02:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
This is a horrible title. "of Safavid"? What the hell is that? This article should be at Abbas the Great or Abbas I of Persia or Abbas I (Safavid). "Safavid" is the name of a dynasty. You don't say Louis VII of Capetian or Yazid II of Umayyad. john k 12:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
A very interesting page, thanks to all who collaborated to it. Please consider incorporating info as far as the Shahsavans who eventually become, if not the most, among the most powerful military units of Shah Abbas and served him in many battles. Please don't censure them because of their Turkic origin.
Qezelbaas 18:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Viaggi di Pietro Della Valle il pellegrino, descritti da lui medesimo in lettere familiari all'erudito suo amico Mario Schipano, divisi in tre parti cioè: la Turchia, la Persia e l'India. Colla vita e ritratto dell'autore, Torino, 1843. Shah Abbas also attached importance to Azerbaijani Turkish, and it was mandatory and necessary to speak Turkish (Azerbaijani) in the palace. Pietro Della Valle wrote in a letter dated May 1618: "The Shah asked me if I knew Turkish, and then he said to me, 'Welcome, it's time.' asked. I briefed on my situation " AzərbaycanTürküAze ( talk) 07:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
very good article, however, who is his poop? i heard she played a crucial role in him assending the throne.
Indeed very informative but Shah Abbas being of Qizilbash (literal translation in Turkish will be Red-Haired) Tribe is a Turk himself. What was his rationale to go after the Turkish Ottomans? Some clues are offered in the form of Robert Shirley's reform in the "Persian" army!!
The book about remaking of the Middle East " A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East " offers a lot of explanation about the British role in the demise of the Ottoman rule. However the initial attack on the Ottomans from the East started with the British arming Shah Abbas in the 1600's. The problem British and Shah Abbas faced was how to get two Turkish countries engange in warfare. This problem was resolved by introducing the Shia/Sunni in-fighting in to the equation and fight was along the religous lines rather than ethnic. One final note, Iran was rule by Turkish tribes from the time of Mahmood of Gazne to Qajar's, yet these tribes respected the Persian culture and adopted it to some extent in their courts. However Western Historians have not paid attention to this very important fact that the country has been under Turkish rule beyond the Arab invasion till early 1906. Another bit of data: Current Supreme Leader Mr. Khamanei is also a Turk himself! Consult http://www.theestimate.com/public/082500.html (Excerpted here):
Sayyid ‘Ali Khamene’i was born in the holy city of Mashhad in northeastern Iran on July 15, 1939. Though he and his parents were from Mashhad, the family has roots in Azerbaijan in northwestern Iran, and Khamene’i is understood to speak Azeri Turkish as well as Farsi. Khamene’i’s grandfather, Sayyid Hossein, was a prominent cleric in Azerbaijan, in Khyaban and Tabriz, and later migrated to the holy city of Najaf in Iraq.
Khamane’i is a sayyid, a descendant of the Prophet, and also the scion of a clerical family; his father Jawad Khamene’i was a hojatolislam, who lived until the age of 93 and, after the revolution, was accorded the title of ayatollah. His mother was the daughter of another hojatolislam; an aunt was married to Sheikh Muhammad Khyabani, a cleric who died leading a revolt in Azerbaijan and is considered a martyr by the revolutionary generation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.127.174 ( talk) 04:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Any evidence Mahd-i Ulya was Georgian? The reference given didn't make any sense. She isn't mentioned among the Georgian wives here [1]. Plus, her father claimed descent from the Fourth Shia Imam. AFAIK that would be unusual for a Georgian. -- Folantin ( talk) 11:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Angered by the queen's actions, the Qizilbash sent a petition to the shah asking him to remove her from power or face revolts. The shah considered sending her into exile but Khayr al-Nisa refused to concede to their demands. Finally, a group of Qizilbash conspirators accused the queen of having a love affair with Adil Giray, brother of the Crimean Tatar Khan, who was being held captive at the Safavid court. They burst into the harem and strangled her and her mother on 26 July 1579.[8][9]" The fact that Shah Abbas wanted to exile Khayr-al Nisa and let her be killed or at least did not much after she was killed, are other indications that She was not his mother. Also the attitude of Shah Abbas to Mohammad Khodabandeh is such an indication that he was not his father. Pari Khanum and Ismail Mirza (Ismail) II were Crcassians. Pari Khanum played an important role in killing of the crowan Prince Georgian Heydar Mirza! Alamaraye Abbasi reports about that -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 08:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Savory is a leading scholar of Safavids, so no questions about his reliability. After looking further into the facts surrounding Shah Abbas' mother, I do not believe she was a full Georgian. Although, given that some sources do call her Georgian, I am starting to believe that it's possible that she may have been half-Georgian or the daughter of a Georgian lady. However, unless there is a a reliable secondary source that explicitly supports the Georgian connection, it should not be added to the article. -- Kurdo777 ( talk) 04:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
@ Folantin: Do you have sources about Shah Abbass speaking Georgian language? Did he really knew the language? Jaqeli ( talk) 12:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Here is a secondary source on the matter, albeit very brief. Rayfield (2013) states "Abbas had a Georgian mother" on page 189. 2600:6C50:47F:E30C:E589:C26A:9037:E70D ( talk) 09:20, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Is "I Şah Abbas Səfəvi" modern Azerbaijani ? Does it have historical importance ? If modern Azerbaijani, we have to remove it. Wikipedia is not a dictionaly. We can see it in az:I Şah Abbas Səfəvi easily. Takabeg ( talk) 10:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Here the double agenda of Takabeg is clearly seen again, he writes that wikipedia is not a dictionary and removes the azerbaijani name but he insists on putting a Persian name to the article of the Ottoman Turkish Sultan Osman I, if wikipedia is not a dictionary and there is no room for any different language than Persian in this article, than logically there is also no reason to add a persian name for Osman I which has nothing to do with Iran, Persia or Persian history. but still Takabeg removes everywhere Turkic languages and categories but adds Persian in the same Turkic articles. Is this normal? DragonTiger23 ( talk) 13:44, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
iblogger.org is on the blacklist [6] so images from it should not be used. See also the whitelist discussion| [7]
Graeme374 ( talk) 04:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Yerevan in those days was not a capital of Armenia. The majority of the population were azerbaijani turks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.61.5.221 ( talk) 14:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
No they were not, take a look here: Yerevan was inhabited first by Armenians and remained homogeneous until the 15th century.[38][39][47] The population of the Erivan Fortress, founded in the 1580s, was mainly composed of Muslim soldiers of the khan, estimated 2-3 thousand.[38] The city itself was mainly populated by Armenians. French traveler Jean-Baptiste Tavernier, who visited Yerevan possibly up to six times between 1631 and 1668, states that the city is exclusively populated by Armenians.[48] During the 1720's Ottoman–Persian War its absolute majority were Armenians.[39] - Yerevan -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 19:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi there, I've heard and just read above that Abbas spoke Georgian? Do anyone have any sources about it? And how did he speak the language? Was he a partly Georgian in any way? Jaqeli ( talk) 20:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Well his mother was from the Marashi family of Mazandaran, while his father was Mohammad Khodabanda, the son of Tahmasp I and a Turkman. While Tahmasp I was the son of Ismail I and a Turkman. Thus Abbas did not have Georgian origins (unlike some other Safavid princes/rulers). I highly doubt that he and any other Safavid prince/ruler spoke Georgian. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 10:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know why, my knowledge about the Safavid dynasty isn't the best.
- His tomb is in Kashan. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 13:46, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea. Why is it so important? -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 18:18, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Probably; i just found this picture [8] -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 20:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
According to the recent biography of Shah Abbas by David Blow, the Spanish envoy Figueroa heard Abbas speaking Georgian so he could make jokes about the Ottoman ambassador without his understanding what was being said. Blow speculates that Abbas must have picked up his knowledge of the language from his Georgian ghulam soldiers or his concubines (reference: Blow, p.118). Abbas' mother was not Georgian. His successor, Shah Safi, had a Georgian mother though. -- Folantin ( talk) 11:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Is there any good Persian sources about Tinatin, daughter of George X of Kartli? I am trying to find some Georgian sources but Persian sources would be also great as she was married to Abbas I. Jaqeli 17:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 07:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Abbas I of Persia → Abbas the Great – Jstor search: "Abbas+I+Persia" gets 5 hits, "Abbas+Great+Persia" gets 3,864. - LouisAragon ( talk) 11:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
User:HistoryofIran has insisted on reverting to the horrible Italian "artist's impression" based on no evidence of Abbas's appearance (and a low quality image to boot). The Persian miniature at this period just didn't do portraits, or was only starting to, but the Mughal miniature did, and fortunately Jahangir sent one of his top portraitists, Bishandas to Persia with an embassy, where he stayed for 7 years. The Mughal court was therefore well supplied with genuine likenesses, no doubt including many drawings, and there are a number of high-quality Mughal images which show Abbas' rather distinctive appearance. This is totally different from the various invented European images, which just show a generalized Oriental, and also the crude later Persian images. There are only a few Persian images that are more or less compatible with the Mughal ones, in particular: Abbas being served wine (attributed Muhammad Qasim), Abbas with a bow and page (not top-quality), and the probably much later Čehel Sotūn wall painting, followed by many lesser Persian paintings, which cannot date from before 1647, and which Iranica refrains from giving a date to, while noting the European influence. Perhaps it comes from after the fire in 1706.
As with other rulers, there are indeed many images of Abbas, but very few are close to real likenesses based on drawings made in front of the subject. I can't work out why HistoryofIran insists on keeping an image that is just about the least attractive and the least artisticly competent, which is certainly not based on any actual likeness, and is a low-quality file from an unknown internet source. Do any RS on Abbas reproduce this ghastly daub? I am not especially attached to the image I used, though it may well be by Bisandas himself, and was a ready-made crop, but we should crop one of the other images, as usual looking for a balance between authenticity and aesthetics, and an image of decent picture quality. The ugly and badly-drawn Italian daub fails badly on all these and is just unacceptable.
The other images clearly haven't been looked at for several years and show a preference for crappy lo-res Western prints over more authentic Asian images that needs to change.
I'll put some uncropped alternatives below.
Johnbod ( talk) 16:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
You two need to relax. Ermia.r.a ( talk) 17:40, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I think its best if the lead image was an Iranian product following the algorithm for the Safavid king (well, Ismail I and Soltan Hoseyn being exceptions), unfortunatly, there doesn't seem to be a good quality Safavid painting of Abbas. I myself would be content to this one:
And also this version of the Chehel Sotoun painting: (Not the one I posted)
Any thought? Amir Ghandi ( talk) 12:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
I agree with LouisAragon, the others are not an improvement. The current one should be kept. Not using an image because of nationalistic reasons is strange. If we're talking about Persian qualities and such, how this painting is not Persian or whatever, then that opens up arguments as to how Persian the subject himself was in the first place, considering his ethnic background and that of the Safavid clan in general. How are the Persian or Mughal miniatures more accurate or reflective of the subject anyway, since the style of such art imposes East Asian features and it is highly unlikely the Safavid shahs looked even remotely East Asian as their clan was indigenous to the Caucasus from where they originated. Anyway, these kinds of arguments have no place in encyclopedia articles. It should come down to a matter of aesthetics. To my eyes, the current one looks better than the alternatives. Laval ( talk) 12:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello, uh people keep changing the death date of to 1666? Micheal Paleologo-Oriundi ( talk) 14:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
- While reading this page I wondered why would
- Portuguese traders seize the island of Hormoz. - - Should it not be Portuguese colonialist seized the island of Hormoz and Shah Abbas I send them a warning to leave or else, and apparently the " else " was, they were thrown in to the water full of sharks.
the entire paragraph here: In 1609-1610, a long battle broke out between Kurds and Safavid Empire. It took place around a fortress called "Dimdim" located in Beradost region around Lake Urmia in north western Iran. In 1609, the ruined structure was rebuilt by "Emîr Xan Lepzêrîn" (Golden Hand Khan), ruler of Beradost, who sought to maintain the independence of his expanding principality in the face of both Ottoman and Safavid penetration into the region. Rebuilding of Dimdim was considered a move toward independence that could threaten Safavid power in the northwest. Many Kurds, including the rulers of Mukriyan (Mahabad), rallied around Amir Khan. After a long and bloody siege led by the Safavid grand vizier Hatem Beg, which lasted from November 1609 to the summer of 1610, Dimdim was captured. All the defenders were massacred. Shah Abbas ordered a general massacre in Beradost and Mukriyan(Mahabad) (Reported by Eskandar Beg Monshi, Safavid Historian (1557-1642) in the Book "Alam Ara Abbasi") and resettled the Turkish Afshar tribe in the region while deporting many Kurdish tribes to Khorasan. (see [1] and [2]). Also see " O. Dzh. Dzhalilov, Kurdski geroicheski epos Zlatoruki Khan" (The Kurdish heroic epic Gold-hand Khan), Moscow, 1967.
Is copied from here. It should be removed.
Ori Redler 02:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
This is a horrible title. "of Safavid"? What the hell is that? This article should be at Abbas the Great or Abbas I of Persia or Abbas I (Safavid). "Safavid" is the name of a dynasty. You don't say Louis VII of Capetian or Yazid II of Umayyad. john k 12:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
A very interesting page, thanks to all who collaborated to it. Please consider incorporating info as far as the Shahsavans who eventually become, if not the most, among the most powerful military units of Shah Abbas and served him in many battles. Please don't censure them because of their Turkic origin.
Qezelbaas 18:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Viaggi di Pietro Della Valle il pellegrino, descritti da lui medesimo in lettere familiari all'erudito suo amico Mario Schipano, divisi in tre parti cioè: la Turchia, la Persia e l'India. Colla vita e ritratto dell'autore, Torino, 1843. Shah Abbas also attached importance to Azerbaijani Turkish, and it was mandatory and necessary to speak Turkish (Azerbaijani) in the palace. Pietro Della Valle wrote in a letter dated May 1618: "The Shah asked me if I knew Turkish, and then he said to me, 'Welcome, it's time.' asked. I briefed on my situation " AzərbaycanTürküAze ( talk) 07:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
very good article, however, who is his poop? i heard she played a crucial role in him assending the throne.
Indeed very informative but Shah Abbas being of Qizilbash (literal translation in Turkish will be Red-Haired) Tribe is a Turk himself. What was his rationale to go after the Turkish Ottomans? Some clues are offered in the form of Robert Shirley's reform in the "Persian" army!!
The book about remaking of the Middle East " A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East " offers a lot of explanation about the British role in the demise of the Ottoman rule. However the initial attack on the Ottomans from the East started with the British arming Shah Abbas in the 1600's. The problem British and Shah Abbas faced was how to get two Turkish countries engange in warfare. This problem was resolved by introducing the Shia/Sunni in-fighting in to the equation and fight was along the religous lines rather than ethnic. One final note, Iran was rule by Turkish tribes from the time of Mahmood of Gazne to Qajar's, yet these tribes respected the Persian culture and adopted it to some extent in their courts. However Western Historians have not paid attention to this very important fact that the country has been under Turkish rule beyond the Arab invasion till early 1906. Another bit of data: Current Supreme Leader Mr. Khamanei is also a Turk himself! Consult http://www.theestimate.com/public/082500.html (Excerpted here):
Sayyid ‘Ali Khamene’i was born in the holy city of Mashhad in northeastern Iran on July 15, 1939. Though he and his parents were from Mashhad, the family has roots in Azerbaijan in northwestern Iran, and Khamene’i is understood to speak Azeri Turkish as well as Farsi. Khamene’i’s grandfather, Sayyid Hossein, was a prominent cleric in Azerbaijan, in Khyaban and Tabriz, and later migrated to the holy city of Najaf in Iraq.
Khamane’i is a sayyid, a descendant of the Prophet, and also the scion of a clerical family; his father Jawad Khamene’i was a hojatolislam, who lived until the age of 93 and, after the revolution, was accorded the title of ayatollah. His mother was the daughter of another hojatolislam; an aunt was married to Sheikh Muhammad Khyabani, a cleric who died leading a revolt in Azerbaijan and is considered a martyr by the revolutionary generation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.127.174 ( talk) 04:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Any evidence Mahd-i Ulya was Georgian? The reference given didn't make any sense. She isn't mentioned among the Georgian wives here [1]. Plus, her father claimed descent from the Fourth Shia Imam. AFAIK that would be unusual for a Georgian. -- Folantin ( talk) 11:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Angered by the queen's actions, the Qizilbash sent a petition to the shah asking him to remove her from power or face revolts. The shah considered sending her into exile but Khayr al-Nisa refused to concede to their demands. Finally, a group of Qizilbash conspirators accused the queen of having a love affair with Adil Giray, brother of the Crimean Tatar Khan, who was being held captive at the Safavid court. They burst into the harem and strangled her and her mother on 26 July 1579.[8][9]" The fact that Shah Abbas wanted to exile Khayr-al Nisa and let her be killed or at least did not much after she was killed, are other indications that She was not his mother. Also the attitude of Shah Abbas to Mohammad Khodabandeh is such an indication that he was not his father. Pari Khanum and Ismail Mirza (Ismail) II were Crcassians. Pari Khanum played an important role in killing of the crowan Prince Georgian Heydar Mirza! Alamaraye Abbasi reports about that -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 08:49, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Savory is a leading scholar of Safavids, so no questions about his reliability. After looking further into the facts surrounding Shah Abbas' mother, I do not believe she was a full Georgian. Although, given that some sources do call her Georgian, I am starting to believe that it's possible that she may have been half-Georgian or the daughter of a Georgian lady. However, unless there is a a reliable secondary source that explicitly supports the Georgian connection, it should not be added to the article. -- Kurdo777 ( talk) 04:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
@ Folantin: Do you have sources about Shah Abbass speaking Georgian language? Did he really knew the language? Jaqeli ( talk) 12:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Here is a secondary source on the matter, albeit very brief. Rayfield (2013) states "Abbas had a Georgian mother" on page 189. 2600:6C50:47F:E30C:E589:C26A:9037:E70D ( talk) 09:20, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Is "I Şah Abbas Səfəvi" modern Azerbaijani ? Does it have historical importance ? If modern Azerbaijani, we have to remove it. Wikipedia is not a dictionaly. We can see it in az:I Şah Abbas Səfəvi easily. Takabeg ( talk) 10:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Here the double agenda of Takabeg is clearly seen again, he writes that wikipedia is not a dictionary and removes the azerbaijani name but he insists on putting a Persian name to the article of the Ottoman Turkish Sultan Osman I, if wikipedia is not a dictionary and there is no room for any different language than Persian in this article, than logically there is also no reason to add a persian name for Osman I which has nothing to do with Iran, Persia or Persian history. but still Takabeg removes everywhere Turkic languages and categories but adds Persian in the same Turkic articles. Is this normal? DragonTiger23 ( talk) 13:44, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
iblogger.org is on the blacklist [6] so images from it should not be used. See also the whitelist discussion| [7]
Graeme374 ( talk) 04:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Yerevan in those days was not a capital of Armenia. The majority of the population were azerbaijani turks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.61.5.221 ( talk) 14:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
No they were not, take a look here: Yerevan was inhabited first by Armenians and remained homogeneous until the 15th century.[38][39][47] The population of the Erivan Fortress, founded in the 1580s, was mainly composed of Muslim soldiers of the khan, estimated 2-3 thousand.[38] The city itself was mainly populated by Armenians. French traveler Jean-Baptiste Tavernier, who visited Yerevan possibly up to six times between 1631 and 1668, states that the city is exclusively populated by Armenians.[48] During the 1720's Ottoman–Persian War its absolute majority were Armenians.[39] - Yerevan -- HistoryofIran ( talk) 19:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi there, I've heard and just read above that Abbas spoke Georgian? Do anyone have any sources about it? And how did he speak the language? Was he a partly Georgian in any way? Jaqeli ( talk) 20:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Well his mother was from the Marashi family of Mazandaran, while his father was Mohammad Khodabanda, the son of Tahmasp I and a Turkman. While Tahmasp I was the son of Ismail I and a Turkman. Thus Abbas did not have Georgian origins (unlike some other Safavid princes/rulers). I highly doubt that he and any other Safavid prince/ruler spoke Georgian. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 10:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know why, my knowledge about the Safavid dynasty isn't the best.
- His tomb is in Kashan. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 13:46, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea. Why is it so important? -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 18:18, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Probably; i just found this picture [8] -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 20:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
According to the recent biography of Shah Abbas by David Blow, the Spanish envoy Figueroa heard Abbas speaking Georgian so he could make jokes about the Ottoman ambassador without his understanding what was being said. Blow speculates that Abbas must have picked up his knowledge of the language from his Georgian ghulam soldiers or his concubines (reference: Blow, p.118). Abbas' mother was not Georgian. His successor, Shah Safi, had a Georgian mother though. -- Folantin ( talk) 11:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Is there any good Persian sources about Tinatin, daughter of George X of Kartli? I am trying to find some Georgian sources but Persian sources would be also great as she was married to Abbas I. Jaqeli 17:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 07:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Abbas I of Persia → Abbas the Great – Jstor search: "Abbas+I+Persia" gets 5 hits, "Abbas+Great+Persia" gets 3,864. - LouisAragon ( talk) 11:22, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
User:HistoryofIran has insisted on reverting to the horrible Italian "artist's impression" based on no evidence of Abbas's appearance (and a low quality image to boot). The Persian miniature at this period just didn't do portraits, or was only starting to, but the Mughal miniature did, and fortunately Jahangir sent one of his top portraitists, Bishandas to Persia with an embassy, where he stayed for 7 years. The Mughal court was therefore well supplied with genuine likenesses, no doubt including many drawings, and there are a number of high-quality Mughal images which show Abbas' rather distinctive appearance. This is totally different from the various invented European images, which just show a generalized Oriental, and also the crude later Persian images. There are only a few Persian images that are more or less compatible with the Mughal ones, in particular: Abbas being served wine (attributed Muhammad Qasim), Abbas with a bow and page (not top-quality), and the probably much later Čehel Sotūn wall painting, followed by many lesser Persian paintings, which cannot date from before 1647, and which Iranica refrains from giving a date to, while noting the European influence. Perhaps it comes from after the fire in 1706.
As with other rulers, there are indeed many images of Abbas, but very few are close to real likenesses based on drawings made in front of the subject. I can't work out why HistoryofIran insists on keeping an image that is just about the least attractive and the least artisticly competent, which is certainly not based on any actual likeness, and is a low-quality file from an unknown internet source. Do any RS on Abbas reproduce this ghastly daub? I am not especially attached to the image I used, though it may well be by Bisandas himself, and was a ready-made crop, but we should crop one of the other images, as usual looking for a balance between authenticity and aesthetics, and an image of decent picture quality. The ugly and badly-drawn Italian daub fails badly on all these and is just unacceptable.
The other images clearly haven't been looked at for several years and show a preference for crappy lo-res Western prints over more authentic Asian images that needs to change.
I'll put some uncropped alternatives below.
Johnbod ( talk) 16:14, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
You two need to relax. Ermia.r.a ( talk) 17:40, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I think its best if the lead image was an Iranian product following the algorithm for the Safavid king (well, Ismail I and Soltan Hoseyn being exceptions), unfortunatly, there doesn't seem to be a good quality Safavid painting of Abbas. I myself would be content to this one:
And also this version of the Chehel Sotoun painting: (Not the one I posted)
Any thought? Amir Ghandi ( talk) 12:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
I agree with LouisAragon, the others are not an improvement. The current one should be kept. Not using an image because of nationalistic reasons is strange. If we're talking about Persian qualities and such, how this painting is not Persian or whatever, then that opens up arguments as to how Persian the subject himself was in the first place, considering his ethnic background and that of the Safavid clan in general. How are the Persian or Mughal miniatures more accurate or reflective of the subject anyway, since the style of such art imposes East Asian features and it is highly unlikely the Safavid shahs looked even remotely East Asian as their clan was indigenous to the Caucasus from where they originated. Anyway, these kinds of arguments have no place in encyclopedia articles. It should come down to a matter of aesthetics. To my eyes, the current one looks better than the alternatives. Laval ( talk) 12:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello, uh people keep changing the death date of to 1666? Micheal Paleologo-Oriundi ( talk) 14:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)