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Hello! This is a stub that I'd like to add more detail to, including ongoing discussions of the concept during the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as Anne Hidalgo's plan in Paris. More information can be found on my user page. Jkolli ( talk) 08:27, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Oct 2021 - The article should likely be moved to "15-Minute City", as that appears to be the way that independent sources frequently refer to it. Calligraphically — Preceding undated comment added 05:46, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I'm glad to see that more people have taken an interest in this article since I first proposed edits. I reorganized the existing text into sections, removed uncited information, and added more information to sections from my sandbox. For my next steps, I plan to add more examples of implementations, specifically from Asia, and expand the implications and critiques section. I welcome any edits! Jkolli ( talk) 07:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Great job on this article! I noticed how much you expanded the page with specific examples of models and city implementation studies, which I thought helped a lot in understanding the feasibility and reasoning behind different concepts behind the 15 minute city. Information is presented in a way that gives background and room for the reader to form an opinion. In terms of future edits, it would be great to see more links and images (specifically an image of what a 15 minute city plan may look like could be helpful in visualizing the design and accessibility). Additionally, you can edit the lead to provide more of a roadmap to your later sections. Also, revising your headings for the implementation and critique section to separate the two into their own sections would make your last two sections more clear in terms of the content being presented. Content-wise, an important thing to consider may be to draw connections or to contrast between the different city examples and models. It might be helpful to see a summary table of some of the similar or differing ideas for the models/ implementation plans. Heatherkong ( talk) 01:13, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is super great! I agree it would be super cool to include diagrams or other information that could help readers visualize, as well as maybe expanding on the examples section (particularly the Melbourne section, and maybe any other cities you're aware of. I think the lead could also include more info about the origins of the 15-minute city as well. Otherwise, great work! Ebweav ( talk) 19:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is well-organized and really clear. The only things I would add to User: Heatherkong's list are adding an image or two, if possible, and maybe changing the wording of the phrase, "...polycentric city, where density is made pleasant, where proximity is vibrant and where social intensity is real." I am not sure if you define polycentric city anywhere else, but a link might be helpful, and I also thought "proximity and vibrant and social intensity is real" could use some shortening. That's it though. MBJAnderson ( talk) 09:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Some of the examples cited of implementations do not seem to be explicitly related to the 15 minute city concept, but seem to simply be innovations in urban mobility, some in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. For instance, the Bogotá section is entirely about cycling, and neither of the cited sources mention the "15 minute city" concept. Further, Bogotá had long been developing a cycle network. Arecaceæ2011 ( talk) 02:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
Since I'm pulling out a big chunk of the page, I thought I'd explain why. "Critics point out that the creation of dense, walkable cores like a 15-minute neighborhood often leads to gentrification and displacement" is not in the source; the closest thing there is "Finally, high accessibility to certain areas and the creation of hyper proximity cores are usually accompanied by rising property values, causing either gentrification phenomena or the confinement of lower income households to periphery. Hence provisions in regard to affordable and rental housing, available to diverse individuals and households, are critical and should be an integral part of [fifteen-minute cities'] policies." The article says that improving cities in general can lead to gentrification unless policies are included to preserve affordability. This is different from "improving cities leads to gentrification and displacement".
"Further, price increases, like those associated with gentrification, could be harmful to marginalized groups like people with disabilities, forcing move-outs" isn't a reasonable summary of "The ‘15-Minute City’ Isn’t Made for Disabled Bodies", which focuses on the problem that price increases can make the city unaffordable, and improving the city can make it more attractive, which (in the absence of more homes for people to move into) will make it more expensive. This isn't an argument for keeping the city unwalkable and inaccessible, and it shouldn't be presented as one.
"Similarly, as the concept's origin is largely European, critics have argued that implementing the model could be colonialist and perpetuate harm to marginalized communities" is not a reasonable way to summarize Where the ‘15-Minute City’ Falls Short, which quotes Jay Pitter as saying "We've actually designed cities to create buffers between us across race and class specifically, and this proposal completely ignores a century of planning interventions that have actually concretized deep social divisions between people." The idea here is that it's harder to make American cities walkable and accessible than it is to make European cities that way; a few bike lanes alone won't cut it. This doesn't mean that walkability and accessibility are "colonialist".
Lastly, the idea that it's easier to implement a fifteen-minute city in an already-dense city is practically tautological, and doesn't qualify as a "critique". This doesn't leave anything, so I've removed the section entirely. grendel| khan 16:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Revised: I have removed repetitive references to the "Isobenefit Proposal by D'Acci" as they are not relevant to the main topic of the article, which is the "15-minute city" concept. There is still a mention in the "Research Models" section, though I am unsure if it is appropriate there, as well.
The goal of the "15-minute city" article is to provide information on this widely adopted urban planning approach, not to present a comprehensive list of all proposals that include a 15-minute travel time or similar idea. There have been many such proposals dating back to the early 20th century, including those by Ebenezer Howard, Eb. Howard, CA. Doxiadis, and C.Rowe Additionally, 5-minute and 15-minute models have been widely used in thousands of research studies. However, including every single proposal in this article would detract from its focus and clarity. Let's work together to ensure that the content remains informative and relevant. Fancyarchitect ( talk) 14:26, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
The definition is uncontroversial, it doesn't need multiple citations (xref MOS). Accordingly, I have moved all but one down to a new External links section. If anyone considers any of these especially important, then a new section is needed to reflect the points they make and it can be reclaimed to support it. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 14:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
"FMC" has been added. I prefer "10MC" as it makes iy easy to compare with eg "20MC". S C Cheese ( talk) 21:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi all, the article starts to get pretty good. Here are some thoughts:
1.Texts should be less descriptive when citing authors. The field is new and many viewpoints are added every week. Instead of [author] suggests and proposes that [.......] , it is better to style text as [argument or opinion] (citation)
2.My suggestion is to restructure a little bit "limitations" and "criticism". The two terms are often overlapping but there is distinction between them: Limitations refer to situations where a theory cannot work properly. Criticism is more subjective, and is about situations that it would work, but in a harmfull (bad) way. That probably includes conspiracies views, as well. So, the sections could be re-arranged as:
Limitations:
While the theory has many potential benefits, including reducing car dependence and promoting walkability in urban areas, it also has limitations.
One limitation is the difficulty or impracticality of implementing the 15-minute city concept in established urban areas, where land use patterns and infrastructure are already in place. Additionally, the concept may not be feasible in areas with low population density, more urban sprawl or in low-income communities where transportation options are limited. [1] However, it should be noted that cities like Chengdu and Melbourne have utilized the concept in order to curb urban sprawl and stress the importance of public transit in expanding the radius of the 15-minute city. [2]
Furthermore, when the concept is applied as a literal spatial analysis research tool, it then refers to the use of an isochrone to express the radius of an area considered local. [3] Isochrones have a long history of utilization in transportation planning and are constructed primarily using two variables: time and speed. However, the reliance on population-wide conventions, such as gait speed, to estimate the buffer zones of accessible areas may not accurately reflect the mobility capabilities of specific population groups, like the elderly. This may result in potential inaccuracies and fallacies in research models. [3] In addition, depending too much on physically demanding mobility, could also exclude the physically disabled. [4].
Criticism: While many cities have implemented policies along the 15-minute city concept, disagreement remains over whether the model will equally benefit residents of all social strata. Arguments mainly point that pedestrian friendly neighborhood design may lead to gentrification and displacement of lower-income residents or marginalized groups due to rising property values, especially if not accompinied by affordable housing provisions [5].
Conspiracy theories about the 15-minute concept theories have also flourished, including claims that the model will fine residents for leaving their home districts. [6] [7] [8] British Conservative Party MP Nick Fletcher called 15-minute cities an "international socialist concept" during a debate in the UK Parliament in February 2023. [9] Fancyarchitect ( talk) 00:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
References
The way the subject is presented seems to come from people who have never seen a X-minute city in their live. There are such cities literally everywhere across many countries, and it's been like that for thousands of years. I think the concept should redefined by contrasting *some* new big cities with *most* old cities. 2A01:E0A:909:95B0:C12F:53BB:C47B:6236 ( talk) 16:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
An IP editor has been tagging the conspiracy theory section with NPOV tags, seemingly objecting to the existence of the section, or maybe the description "conspiracy theory." I've protected the article to ensure that discussion occurs here rather than via tagging and edit summaries claiming that the NPOV policy demands that we do what the editor says without further question. Acroterion (talk) 02:18, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
sources from many different parts of the political spectrum. That's WP:FALSEBALANCE. We go by reliable sources
with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracyper WP:SOURCES. If reliable sources say Jordan Peterson and Nick Fletcher are spouting fringe conspiracy theories, then we label their positions as such per WP:FRINGE. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 09:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
An IP editor has added a drive-by "clarify" tag but failed to open a discussion topic to explain what they think needs clarifying. In an edit summary, they finally said No one knows what the hell "isobenefit" or "morphogenetic" mean
. I have to agree: these are echo-chamber jargon words.
So, although I have a kneejerk dislike of drive-by tagging and tend to revert on sight if not accompanied by a talk page item, in this case I think that the IP was being charitable. The section is content-free prolix and does no credit to D'Acci, to the case for 15-minute cities or indeed to Wikipedia in general. So unless someone familiar with D'Acci's work who can rewrite it very soon, it really needs to be concealed. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 10:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Removed content which may be salvagable with some work
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D'Acci and the T*-minute city In 2013, [1] [2] Luca D'Acci introduced the concept of isobenefit urbanism, a spontaneous-guided planning approach based on a morphogenetic code inducing a T*-minute city (T*= a reasonable time to reach destination by walking) where one can reach within 1km/1mile: natural land, shops, amenities, services and places of work. It is based on a code for the simulations of isobenefit urban morphogenesis. It is a code to simulate urban growth scenario by modifying as one wishes the values of the parameters. The latter are related to densities, surface, population size, random factors and built probabilities. This urban growth model results in infinite outputs all satisfying the isobenefit urbanism objective function. [3] [4] [5] References
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This phrase does not make much logical sense. "Walk" and "bike" in this context are being equated as similar, but they are not. A 15 minute bike ride (5km) is equivalent to a 1 hour walk (google maps). This phrase equates to saying that "amenities and services are at most 1.2 or 5 km away".
It is either one or the other. One of these numbers is redundant, either services and amenities are within a 5km range or a 1.2km range. It sounds like it is just a catch phrase or marketing slogan, but it just confuses the article when we are using it like it is a factual fully formed informative statement. Wisnoskij ( talk) 00:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Acroterion: and @ Sangdeboeuf: - What is your goal here? to suppress ANY academic criticism of this "15 minute city" concept simply because you don't like it and your goal is to sanitize the article of ANY criticism?
Edward Glaeser is well known for his research into the economics of cities. We currently have NO criticism in this article, and a whole section at the beginning sourced only to people who have written articles about this concept, some not even notable enough to have their own Wikipedia articles.
The criticism isn't just "Glaeser doesn't like it" but he articulates the problems he sees with this concept and offers what he sees as better alternatives. But you just WP:IDONTLIKEIT? so you want to keep it out of Wikipedia? --- Avatar317 (talk) 23:02, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
academic criticism. Are there no peer-reviewed articles describing the dispute from a disinterested perspective, as required by WP:BALANCE? — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 07:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
sanitize the article of ANY criticismis plainly nonsensical. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 22:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
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Hello! This is a stub that I'd like to add more detail to, including ongoing discussions of the concept during the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as Anne Hidalgo's plan in Paris. More information can be found on my user page. Jkolli ( talk) 08:27, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Oct 2021 - The article should likely be moved to "15-Minute City", as that appears to be the way that independent sources frequently refer to it. Calligraphically — Preceding undated comment added 05:46, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I'm glad to see that more people have taken an interest in this article since I first proposed edits. I reorganized the existing text into sections, removed uncited information, and added more information to sections from my sandbox. For my next steps, I plan to add more examples of implementations, specifically from Asia, and expand the implications and critiques section. I welcome any edits! Jkolli ( talk) 07:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Great job on this article! I noticed how much you expanded the page with specific examples of models and city implementation studies, which I thought helped a lot in understanding the feasibility and reasoning behind different concepts behind the 15 minute city. Information is presented in a way that gives background and room for the reader to form an opinion. In terms of future edits, it would be great to see more links and images (specifically an image of what a 15 minute city plan may look like could be helpful in visualizing the design and accessibility). Additionally, you can edit the lead to provide more of a roadmap to your later sections. Also, revising your headings for the implementation and critique section to separate the two into their own sections would make your last two sections more clear in terms of the content being presented. Content-wise, an important thing to consider may be to draw connections or to contrast between the different city examples and models. It might be helpful to see a summary table of some of the similar or differing ideas for the models/ implementation plans. Heatherkong ( talk) 01:13, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is super great! I agree it would be super cool to include diagrams or other information that could help readers visualize, as well as maybe expanding on the examples section (particularly the Melbourne section, and maybe any other cities you're aware of. I think the lead could also include more info about the origins of the 15-minute city as well. Otherwise, great work! Ebweav ( talk) 19:57, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is well-organized and really clear. The only things I would add to User: Heatherkong's list are adding an image or two, if possible, and maybe changing the wording of the phrase, "...polycentric city, where density is made pleasant, where proximity is vibrant and where social intensity is real." I am not sure if you define polycentric city anywhere else, but a link might be helpful, and I also thought "proximity and vibrant and social intensity is real" could use some shortening. That's it though. MBJAnderson ( talk) 09:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Some of the examples cited of implementations do not seem to be explicitly related to the 15 minute city concept, but seem to simply be innovations in urban mobility, some in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. For instance, the Bogotá section is entirely about cycling, and neither of the cited sources mention the "15 minute city" concept. Further, Bogotá had long been developing a cycle network. Arecaceæ2011 ( talk) 02:19, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
Since I'm pulling out a big chunk of the page, I thought I'd explain why. "Critics point out that the creation of dense, walkable cores like a 15-minute neighborhood often leads to gentrification and displacement" is not in the source; the closest thing there is "Finally, high accessibility to certain areas and the creation of hyper proximity cores are usually accompanied by rising property values, causing either gentrification phenomena or the confinement of lower income households to periphery. Hence provisions in regard to affordable and rental housing, available to diverse individuals and households, are critical and should be an integral part of [fifteen-minute cities'] policies." The article says that improving cities in general can lead to gentrification unless policies are included to preserve affordability. This is different from "improving cities leads to gentrification and displacement".
"Further, price increases, like those associated with gentrification, could be harmful to marginalized groups like people with disabilities, forcing move-outs" isn't a reasonable summary of "The ‘15-Minute City’ Isn’t Made for Disabled Bodies", which focuses on the problem that price increases can make the city unaffordable, and improving the city can make it more attractive, which (in the absence of more homes for people to move into) will make it more expensive. This isn't an argument for keeping the city unwalkable and inaccessible, and it shouldn't be presented as one.
"Similarly, as the concept's origin is largely European, critics have argued that implementing the model could be colonialist and perpetuate harm to marginalized communities" is not a reasonable way to summarize Where the ‘15-Minute City’ Falls Short, which quotes Jay Pitter as saying "We've actually designed cities to create buffers between us across race and class specifically, and this proposal completely ignores a century of planning interventions that have actually concretized deep social divisions between people." The idea here is that it's harder to make American cities walkable and accessible than it is to make European cities that way; a few bike lanes alone won't cut it. This doesn't mean that walkability and accessibility are "colonialist".
Lastly, the idea that it's easier to implement a fifteen-minute city in an already-dense city is practically tautological, and doesn't qualify as a "critique". This doesn't leave anything, so I've removed the section entirely. grendel| khan 16:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Revised: I have removed repetitive references to the "Isobenefit Proposal by D'Acci" as they are not relevant to the main topic of the article, which is the "15-minute city" concept. There is still a mention in the "Research Models" section, though I am unsure if it is appropriate there, as well.
The goal of the "15-minute city" article is to provide information on this widely adopted urban planning approach, not to present a comprehensive list of all proposals that include a 15-minute travel time or similar idea. There have been many such proposals dating back to the early 20th century, including those by Ebenezer Howard, Eb. Howard, CA. Doxiadis, and C.Rowe Additionally, 5-minute and 15-minute models have been widely used in thousands of research studies. However, including every single proposal in this article would detract from its focus and clarity. Let's work together to ensure that the content remains informative and relevant. Fancyarchitect ( talk) 14:26, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
The definition is uncontroversial, it doesn't need multiple citations (xref MOS). Accordingly, I have moved all but one down to a new External links section. If anyone considers any of these especially important, then a new section is needed to reflect the points they make and it can be reclaimed to support it. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 14:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
"FMC" has been added. I prefer "10MC" as it makes iy easy to compare with eg "20MC". S C Cheese ( talk) 21:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
Hi all, the article starts to get pretty good. Here are some thoughts:
1.Texts should be less descriptive when citing authors. The field is new and many viewpoints are added every week. Instead of [author] suggests and proposes that [.......] , it is better to style text as [argument or opinion] (citation)
2.My suggestion is to restructure a little bit "limitations" and "criticism". The two terms are often overlapping but there is distinction between them: Limitations refer to situations where a theory cannot work properly. Criticism is more subjective, and is about situations that it would work, but in a harmfull (bad) way. That probably includes conspiracies views, as well. So, the sections could be re-arranged as:
Limitations:
While the theory has many potential benefits, including reducing car dependence and promoting walkability in urban areas, it also has limitations.
One limitation is the difficulty or impracticality of implementing the 15-minute city concept in established urban areas, where land use patterns and infrastructure are already in place. Additionally, the concept may not be feasible in areas with low population density, more urban sprawl or in low-income communities where transportation options are limited. [1] However, it should be noted that cities like Chengdu and Melbourne have utilized the concept in order to curb urban sprawl and stress the importance of public transit in expanding the radius of the 15-minute city. [2]
Furthermore, when the concept is applied as a literal spatial analysis research tool, it then refers to the use of an isochrone to express the radius of an area considered local. [3] Isochrones have a long history of utilization in transportation planning and are constructed primarily using two variables: time and speed. However, the reliance on population-wide conventions, such as gait speed, to estimate the buffer zones of accessible areas may not accurately reflect the mobility capabilities of specific population groups, like the elderly. This may result in potential inaccuracies and fallacies in research models. [3] In addition, depending too much on physically demanding mobility, could also exclude the physically disabled. [4].
Criticism: While many cities have implemented policies along the 15-minute city concept, disagreement remains over whether the model will equally benefit residents of all social strata. Arguments mainly point that pedestrian friendly neighborhood design may lead to gentrification and displacement of lower-income residents or marginalized groups due to rising property values, especially if not accompinied by affordable housing provisions [5].
Conspiracy theories about the 15-minute concept theories have also flourished, including claims that the model will fine residents for leaving their home districts. [6] [7] [8] British Conservative Party MP Nick Fletcher called 15-minute cities an "international socialist concept" during a debate in the UK Parliament in February 2023. [9] Fancyarchitect ( talk) 00:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
References
The way the subject is presented seems to come from people who have never seen a X-minute city in their live. There are such cities literally everywhere across many countries, and it's been like that for thousands of years. I think the concept should redefined by contrasting *some* new big cities with *most* old cities. 2A01:E0A:909:95B0:C12F:53BB:C47B:6236 ( talk) 16:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
An IP editor has been tagging the conspiracy theory section with NPOV tags, seemingly objecting to the existence of the section, or maybe the description "conspiracy theory." I've protected the article to ensure that discussion occurs here rather than via tagging and edit summaries claiming that the NPOV policy demands that we do what the editor says without further question. Acroterion (talk) 02:18, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
sources from many different parts of the political spectrum. That's WP:FALSEBALANCE. We go by reliable sources
with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracyper WP:SOURCES. If reliable sources say Jordan Peterson and Nick Fletcher are spouting fringe conspiracy theories, then we label their positions as such per WP:FRINGE. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 09:33, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
An IP editor has added a drive-by "clarify" tag but failed to open a discussion topic to explain what they think needs clarifying. In an edit summary, they finally said No one knows what the hell "isobenefit" or "morphogenetic" mean
. I have to agree: these are echo-chamber jargon words.
So, although I have a kneejerk dislike of drive-by tagging and tend to revert on sight if not accompanied by a talk page item, in this case I think that the IP was being charitable. The section is content-free prolix and does no credit to D'Acci, to the case for 15-minute cities or indeed to Wikipedia in general. So unless someone familiar with D'Acci's work who can rewrite it very soon, it really needs to be concealed. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 10:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Removed content which may be salvagable with some work
|
---|
D'Acci and the T*-minute city In 2013, [1] [2] Luca D'Acci introduced the concept of isobenefit urbanism, a spontaneous-guided planning approach based on a morphogenetic code inducing a T*-minute city (T*= a reasonable time to reach destination by walking) where one can reach within 1km/1mile: natural land, shops, amenities, services and places of work. It is based on a code for the simulations of isobenefit urban morphogenesis. It is a code to simulate urban growth scenario by modifying as one wishes the values of the parameters. The latter are related to densities, surface, population size, random factors and built probabilities. This urban growth model results in infinite outputs all satisfying the isobenefit urbanism objective function. [3] [4] [5] References
|
This phrase does not make much logical sense. "Walk" and "bike" in this context are being equated as similar, but they are not. A 15 minute bike ride (5km) is equivalent to a 1 hour walk (google maps). This phrase equates to saying that "amenities and services are at most 1.2 or 5 km away".
It is either one or the other. One of these numbers is redundant, either services and amenities are within a 5km range or a 1.2km range. It sounds like it is just a catch phrase or marketing slogan, but it just confuses the article when we are using it like it is a factual fully formed informative statement. Wisnoskij ( talk) 00:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Acroterion: and @ Sangdeboeuf: - What is your goal here? to suppress ANY academic criticism of this "15 minute city" concept simply because you don't like it and your goal is to sanitize the article of ANY criticism?
Edward Glaeser is well known for his research into the economics of cities. We currently have NO criticism in this article, and a whole section at the beginning sourced only to people who have written articles about this concept, some not even notable enough to have their own Wikipedia articles.
The criticism isn't just "Glaeser doesn't like it" but he articulates the problems he sees with this concept and offers what he sees as better alternatives. But you just WP:IDONTLIKEIT? so you want to keep it out of Wikipedia? --- Avatar317 (talk) 23:02, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
academic criticism. Are there no peer-reviewed articles describing the dispute from a disinterested perspective, as required by WP:BALANCE? — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 07:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
sanitize the article of ANY criticismis plainly nonsensical. — Sangdeboeuf ( talk) 22:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)