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![]() | This article was
submitted to WikiJournal of Humanities for external
peer review in 13 June 2018 (
reviewer reports). It was published as
Dudley Miles; et al. (24 October 2018).
"Æthelflæd, Lady of the Mercians" (PDF). WikiJournal of Humanities. 1 (1): 1.
doi:
10.15347/WJH/2018.001.
ISSN
2639-5347.
Wikidata
Q59649817.{{
cite journal}} : CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
![]() |
![]() | This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
|
This gives some insight into the emergence of England from the union of Wessex and Mercia. The Danes overran most of the English Kingdoms such as Northumbria, Eastern Mercia, East Anglia etc. Alfred and his descendants reconquered these lands from the Danes by 896
I do not think this statement is true, does it have a reference? By the time of Alfred's death in 899 he had consolidated
Wessex,
Kent and the rump of
Mercia into a Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons. The
Danelaw was still very much in existence and Danes controlled not only the
five boroughs (basically east Mercia) but also
East Anglia and
Northumbria (with the exception of
Bamburgh).
Edward the Elder conquered East Anglia and and his sister
Æthelflæd Lady of the Mercians conquered the five boroughs, these were incorporated into the Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons.
Athelstan Completed the conquest of England at the
Battle of Brunanburh in 937. It was at this time that England became a Kingdom for the first time. This information is from The Age of Athelstan by Paul Hill.
Alun
03:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I am not sure that there is a good source for the story about her ambush on her way to her wedding. It is not mentioned in the Chronicle, in William of Malmsbury or any of the usual suspects. Is there actually a source for this story? If not, I would rather see it out of the article. Selina.
The http://www.number8.org/What's-On/Gallery/Craft-Exhibitions/163/Pershore_Heritage_Centre_-_'Royal_Visits'.html web page includes the following.
[quote] It's known that Aethelflaeda, the daughter of King Alfred, often visited the early monastery at Pershore, whilst relics of his grand-daughter, acquired for the abbey, resulted in the town becoming something of a pilgrimage centre. [/quote]
There is no statement on the page as to the evidence for this, yet this note here is added in case it may be of interest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.120.36 ( talk) 12:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I changed the previous line about her being featured in Sword Song; Ethelfleda first makes an appearance in the first book of the series and becomes clearly important to Uthred from much earlier than the fourth book (he even claims to have sworn himself to Alfred only because she was watching, and it is his affections for her that make her such a big character in the last novel), although I kept the reference of the book. Diana Prallon ( talk) 05:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
This article was quite properly listed for copyright review given its resemblance to this 2009 blog: [4]. There's no question that there's some similarity, but in spite of the blog author's assertion that "This is entirely self written from my own thoughts. If there are any similarities between other online entries, it is simply by coincidence", Wikipedia did not copy from it. Compare the following passage from that blog:
While her husband was alive, Aethelflaed signed agreements, leading some to think that she was the real leader of Mercia. On her husband’s death in 911 C.E. after the Battle of Tettenhall, she was elevated to the status of “Lady of the Mercians”. She was called this because she was a formidable military leader and tactician in battle.
Our article on 18 December 2009 said:
While her husband was alive, she signed agreements, leading some to think that she was the real leader. On her husband's death in 911 after the Battle of Tettenhall, she was elevated to the status of "Lady of the Mercians". This title was not a nominal position; she was a formidable military leader and tactician.
The first sentence in that passage was added by an unregistered user to Wikipedia on 20 November 2005, [5], over four years before that blog entry was written. The second sentence is even older, having been part of the foundation of the article in 2002. The third sentence entered the article in November 2004, [6].
Given this, one has to wonder about the blog disclaimer. Perhaps somebody pointed out the similarities between her blog entry and this long-standing Wikipedia article. Whatever the case may be there, there's clearly no borrowing here. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Should there be a section listing references to her in fictional books etc...? (e.g. Bernard Cornwell's " Death of Kings" has a lot of the story involving her). Maitchy ( talk) 09:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
References
Did a quick ce, blammed a few typos, wayward commas and put quotes in {{quote|}} format. Rv as desired; good read by the way. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 15:02, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
I've tried four variations to fix the intro sentence, but the additional word or three is too verbose. Rather than collaborate, I've been reverted each time. Please try to collaborate on a phrasing that follows the WP:LEDE suggestions, since they are not onerous. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 15:53, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
Since the name is historical, involving non-standard ligatures, could we add Template:IPAc-en to the lead to ease the pronunciation? Brandmeister talk 12:03, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
I notice that there's been some recent editing and reverting of this section. In my opinion, it's perfectly valid to acknowledge Æthelflæd's portrayal as a major character in The Last Kingdom, which is a fairly high-profile dramatisation. Let's discuss it here and see what the consensus is. ~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 08:32, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
@ Dudley Miles: Re the map of england that you reverted, I don't understand why you said it's "too early to be relevant". The map describes the sitation in 878, within the decade of the subject's birth. About 50% of the content in the "Backround" section is from 860s and 870s. In any case, when I was reading the section I (a layman) often struggle with placing where Wessex, Mercia and the Danish terriories were, and when I found the map in commons I found it very helpful. If this map is inappropriate for some reason, please consider adding another map. HaEr48 ( talk) 21:08, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
This reads very wonky. The section is fairly substantial, yet a very small portion of it has been shunted away as its own article: Cultural depictions of Æthelflæd.
Why isn't all the Legacy material moved to a subarticle if the section is too long? Conversely, ff the section isn't too long, why not simply merge back the small piece about cultural depictions? CapnZapp ( talk) 11:21, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Did she actually get abducted as the show, “the last kingdom” depicts? 47.220.164.179 ( talk) 18:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Note that in Wikipedia we use common names rather than official titles. While Æthelflæd had the title "Lady" she was still the ruler of a kingdom, hence a queen regnant. It is not helpful to remove her from a category with colleague queens regnant. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:20, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
queen regnant, hence Category:10th-century queens regnant. Æthelflæd#Lady of the Mercians and Æthelflæd#Legacy explain in detail with reliable sources that, although in neighbouring Wessex it wouldn't have been possible for a woman to be a queen, in Mercia it was, and happened again immediately thereafter with her daughter Ælfwynn. Multiple sources such as
Irish and Welsh annals described her as a queen and the Annals of Ulster, which ignore the deaths of Alfred and Edward, described her as famosissima regina Saxonum (renowned Saxon queen), while only
the Mercian Registersays
Æthelflæd became Myrcna hlædige, "Lady of the Mercians". If we had a category tree for Category:10th-century ladies of the Mercians, that would be ideal given the title mentioned in this native Mercian source, but it would only have 2 items. Given that multiple primary sources plus multiple reliable secondary sources identify both as queens regnant, it is completely reasonable to put them in the Category:10th-century queens regnant.
![]() | Æthelflæd is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 22, 2018. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on June 12, 2017, June 12, 2023, and June 12, 2024. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Æthelflæd article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was
submitted to WikiJournal of Humanities for external
peer review in 13 June 2018 (
reviewer reports). It was published as
Dudley Miles; et al. (24 October 2018).
"Æthelflæd, Lady of the Mercians" (PDF). WikiJournal of Humanities. 1 (1): 1.
doi:
10.15347/WJH/2018.001.
ISSN
2639-5347.
Wikidata
Q59649817.{{
cite journal}} : CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
![]() |
![]() | This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
|
This gives some insight into the emergence of England from the union of Wessex and Mercia. The Danes overran most of the English Kingdoms such as Northumbria, Eastern Mercia, East Anglia etc. Alfred and his descendants reconquered these lands from the Danes by 896
I do not think this statement is true, does it have a reference? By the time of Alfred's death in 899 he had consolidated
Wessex,
Kent and the rump of
Mercia into a Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons. The
Danelaw was still very much in existence and Danes controlled not only the
five boroughs (basically east Mercia) but also
East Anglia and
Northumbria (with the exception of
Bamburgh).
Edward the Elder conquered East Anglia and and his sister
Æthelflæd Lady of the Mercians conquered the five boroughs, these were incorporated into the Kingdom of the Anglo-Saxons.
Athelstan Completed the conquest of England at the
Battle of Brunanburh in 937. It was at this time that England became a Kingdom for the first time. This information is from The Age of Athelstan by Paul Hill.
Alun
03:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I am not sure that there is a good source for the story about her ambush on her way to her wedding. It is not mentioned in the Chronicle, in William of Malmsbury or any of the usual suspects. Is there actually a source for this story? If not, I would rather see it out of the article. Selina.
The http://www.number8.org/What's-On/Gallery/Craft-Exhibitions/163/Pershore_Heritage_Centre_-_'Royal_Visits'.html web page includes the following.
[quote] It's known that Aethelflaeda, the daughter of King Alfred, often visited the early monastery at Pershore, whilst relics of his grand-daughter, acquired for the abbey, resulted in the town becoming something of a pilgrimage centre. [/quote]
There is no statement on the page as to the evidence for this, yet this note here is added in case it may be of interest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.120.36 ( talk) 12:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I changed the previous line about her being featured in Sword Song; Ethelfleda first makes an appearance in the first book of the series and becomes clearly important to Uthred from much earlier than the fourth book (he even claims to have sworn himself to Alfred only because she was watching, and it is his affections for her that make her such a big character in the last novel), although I kept the reference of the book. Diana Prallon ( talk) 05:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
This article was quite properly listed for copyright review given its resemblance to this 2009 blog: [4]. There's no question that there's some similarity, but in spite of the blog author's assertion that "This is entirely self written from my own thoughts. If there are any similarities between other online entries, it is simply by coincidence", Wikipedia did not copy from it. Compare the following passage from that blog:
While her husband was alive, Aethelflaed signed agreements, leading some to think that she was the real leader of Mercia. On her husband’s death in 911 C.E. after the Battle of Tettenhall, she was elevated to the status of “Lady of the Mercians”. She was called this because she was a formidable military leader and tactician in battle.
Our article on 18 December 2009 said:
While her husband was alive, she signed agreements, leading some to think that she was the real leader. On her husband's death in 911 after the Battle of Tettenhall, she was elevated to the status of "Lady of the Mercians". This title was not a nominal position; she was a formidable military leader and tactician.
The first sentence in that passage was added by an unregistered user to Wikipedia on 20 November 2005, [5], over four years before that blog entry was written. The second sentence is even older, having been part of the foundation of the article in 2002. The third sentence entered the article in November 2004, [6].
Given this, one has to wonder about the blog disclaimer. Perhaps somebody pointed out the similarities between her blog entry and this long-standing Wikipedia article. Whatever the case may be there, there's clearly no borrowing here. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Should there be a section listing references to her in fictional books etc...? (e.g. Bernard Cornwell's " Death of Kings" has a lot of the story involving her). Maitchy ( talk) 09:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
References
Did a quick ce, blammed a few typos, wayward commas and put quotes in {{quote|}} format. Rv as desired; good read by the way. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 15:02, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
I've tried four variations to fix the intro sentence, but the additional word or three is too verbose. Rather than collaborate, I've been reverted each time. Please try to collaborate on a phrasing that follows the WP:LEDE suggestions, since they are not onerous. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 15:53, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
Since the name is historical, involving non-standard ligatures, could we add Template:IPAc-en to the lead to ease the pronunciation? Brandmeister talk 12:03, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
I notice that there's been some recent editing and reverting of this section. In my opinion, it's perfectly valid to acknowledge Æthelflæd's portrayal as a major character in The Last Kingdom, which is a fairly high-profile dramatisation. Let's discuss it here and see what the consensus is. ~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 08:32, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
@ Dudley Miles: Re the map of england that you reverted, I don't understand why you said it's "too early to be relevant". The map describes the sitation in 878, within the decade of the subject's birth. About 50% of the content in the "Backround" section is from 860s and 870s. In any case, when I was reading the section I (a layman) often struggle with placing where Wessex, Mercia and the Danish terriories were, and when I found the map in commons I found it very helpful. If this map is inappropriate for some reason, please consider adding another map. HaEr48 ( talk) 21:08, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
This reads very wonky. The section is fairly substantial, yet a very small portion of it has been shunted away as its own article: Cultural depictions of Æthelflæd.
Why isn't all the Legacy material moved to a subarticle if the section is too long? Conversely, ff the section isn't too long, why not simply merge back the small piece about cultural depictions? CapnZapp ( talk) 11:21, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Did she actually get abducted as the show, “the last kingdom” depicts? 47.220.164.179 ( talk) 18:58, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Note that in Wikipedia we use common names rather than official titles. While Æthelflæd had the title "Lady" she was still the ruler of a kingdom, hence a queen regnant. It is not helpful to remove her from a category with colleague queens regnant. Marcocapelle ( talk) 13:20, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
queen regnant, hence Category:10th-century queens regnant. Æthelflæd#Lady of the Mercians and Æthelflæd#Legacy explain in detail with reliable sources that, although in neighbouring Wessex it wouldn't have been possible for a woman to be a queen, in Mercia it was, and happened again immediately thereafter with her daughter Ælfwynn. Multiple sources such as
Irish and Welsh annals described her as a queen and the Annals of Ulster, which ignore the deaths of Alfred and Edward, described her as famosissima regina Saxonum (renowned Saxon queen), while only
the Mercian Registersays
Æthelflæd became Myrcna hlædige, "Lady of the Mercians". If we had a category tree for Category:10th-century ladies of the Mercians, that would be ideal given the title mentioned in this native Mercian source, but it would only have 2 items. Given that multiple primary sources plus multiple reliable secondary sources identify both as queens regnant, it is completely reasonable to put them in the Category:10th-century queens regnant.