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Since ͈ doesn't show up on my (and possibly many others') IE display, maybe we should immitate its graphical equivalent. If it's a "subscript double straight quotation mark" does that mean that ◌͈ is ◌" ? — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The vowels must have different notes! -- Kjoon lee 22:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Korean has a distinction between plain, aspirated and tense stops.
Thus I strongly object to the use of English words like "spar / star / scar" to denote anything other than tense stops. -- Kjoon lee 22:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
This chart can now be transcluded through {{ IPA-ko}}. kwami ( talk) 06:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Given that //tɕoŋlo// is pronounced /tɕoŋno/, our description of /n/ would appear to be wrong. But the claim that both ㄹㄴ and ㄴㄹ may be /ll/ has stood for some time without correction. Can someone elucidate? kwami ( talk) 07:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Kwami, can you be more clear why you reverted alignment of the layout in this help page? − Woodstone ( talk) 21:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Can someone check Seung-Hui Cho? Is Hui really pronounced [ɣi]? kwami ( talk) 08:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Please edit the sound notation of ㅇ. It can be silent, not always sounded.
Is this reflective of how this template is used on Wikipedia? If so, it should be deprecated since we're trying to stick with one variety that happens to be Standard South Korean pronunciation. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 08:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Could somebody with more knowledge of Hangul than me look over the article on the Jeolla dialect? The transcriptions don't look right to me. For example, the tenuis consonants of Korean have voiced allophones inside of words.
While we're at it, it couldn't hurt to look at the material on other dialects as well (assuming there is any, because there doesn't seem to be much on them, period). Thanks. - AlexanderKaras ( talk) 03:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Ahn & Iverson 2007 mention a new diphthong, /ɯi/. Is there a reference for using a voiced velar approximant for the diphthong instead?
Here is the Ahn & Iverson 2007 citation:
Ahn, S., & Iverson, G. K. (2007). Structured Imbalances in the Emergence of the Korean Vowel System. Historical Linguistics 2005: Selected papers from the 17th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, Madison, Wisconsin, 31 July - 5 August 2005 (pp. 275-293). Philadelphia: John Benjamins. Retrieved 28 December 2010 from http://www.uwm.edu/~iverson/kordiph.pdf Flexlingie ( talk) 20:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Isn't ㅟ still pronounced [y] by some older speakers? This ref seems to back that up, making it contemporaneous with [ø] for ㅚ. We had that in the chart once, but it was deleted as unreferenced. For a basic chart, maybe we should remove both? — kwami ( talk) 08:59, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm now curious as to why ɯ is used as the unrounded counterpart for u? Most all other references I've seen refer to the vowel as ɨ (e.g., Lee & Ramsey 2000; Sohn 1999; Kim 1999; Ahn & Iverson 2007; Yang 1996; Yoon 1996; Yang 1992; Kim 1968). Sohn 1999 describes the sound as a high, back, unrounded vowel (p. 156), so I would tend to agree based on that description that it should be ɯ. However, Ahn & Iverson 2007 describe it as a central vowel. What are your thoughts, and what other references have you found that help clarify this issue? Flexlingie ( talk) 02:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Bad transcription. I fixed up the consonants, but don't know about vowel length. — kwami ( talk) 06:57, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Cleaning up the transcriptions, and I've come across a fair number with [ɸ] before [w]. Do we want to transcribe that way, or should 회 just be [hwe]? — kwami ( talk) 09:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
I would appreciate IPA transcriptions for Noh Seung-yul and Bae Sang-moon. ( suoı̣ʇnqı̣ɹʇuoɔ · ʞlɐʇ) nɯnuı̣ɥԀ 16:24, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
The sounds /ɦ/ and /j/ appear to be absent from this chart, even though they are both used in Park Geun-hye. I assume /ɦ/ is an allophone of /h/, while /j/ simply seems to have been forgotten, hasn't it? MuDavid ( talk) 07:28, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 16:17, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
What English dialect is being used for the vowels here? The "e" in "set" is claimed to be IPA [e], but it is definitely [ɛ] in both GA and RP - so says Wiktionary, anyway. Wiktionary also refers to "says" as having [ɛ], and "rays" as having [eɪ], which would presumably make it closer to [e]. Perhaps this should be cleared up, somehow? - Franxz ( talk) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi. Please add the IPA pronunciation of the word Gapjil in the namesake article. Thanks! Thinker78 ( talk) 05:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi, it seems as if users Aeusoes1 and Nardog both have an issue with me trying to make the approximation for the Korean ʌ a bit more accurate to its phonetic sound because I have listened to both this vowel in Korean and the vowel used in RP for words like strut, mud etc. and from what I've listened the sound used for Korean is absolutely NOT the same as the ʌ sound used in RP. Yes the same symbol is used in RP I will admit for traditional/convenience purposes but even though Nardog claimed when reverting my second edit that strut is the same in RP and GA, the symbol in RP actually phonetically represents the Near-open central vowel (ɐ), not the Open-mid back unrounded vowel like Korean and to say otherwise is very misleading in my opinion. The open-mid back unrounded vowel to me sounds a lot closer phonetically to the vowel used in the English words like song or off rather than mud, strut (except perhaps in American English because this vowel is used in some American dialects from what the link from that sound shows) in RP which is why I don't think mud is a very accurate approximation to use here (to me at least as I grew up in England even though I'm off Asian origin). Another reason why I'm interested in changing the approximation is because I've recently listened to the Korean pronunciation of Samsung in some videos (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7anPmip9Xf4) which to my English ears sound a lot like "samsong" rather than "samsahng" as it would in RP and many other English dialects in the south of England which was why I changed the approximation to off before Aeusoes1 reverted it claiming Korean phonology explained it, but when I looked into that article afterwards, I saw no explanation whatsoever to suggest that the vowel is the same as in RP. Due to listening to Koreans pronouncing Samsung, looking for the phonetic sounds in Wikipedia was rather confusing for me because the same IPA ʌ symbol is used in RP and Korean despite the sounds being somewhat different for both and the approximation here stating it sounds like mud in English, now it probably would in some American, South African and a few South East England accents but the sound is completely different to the RP one. I probably would have reverted Nardogs edit if it wasn't for the fact that I attempt to avoid edit wars when possible and because for the most part I do respect other peoples opinions. So I would be very grateful if either Aeusoes1 and Nardog or anyone else can point me in the right direction and if possible, explain to me either why the mud approximation should be kept or if there is another way to change that than what I was doing, many thanks. Broman178 ( talk) 05:32, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Given that most speakers of Standard Korean do not have front rounded vowels in their phonological inventory anymore [1], should we keep recommending English /juː/ as in refute as an approximation of /y ~ wi/? The closest mapping for Korean /ø ~ we/ is probably English /wɛ/ as in wet, but the onglide in Korean /y ~ wi/ is a lot more palatal, and it contrasts with /ɰi/. I went ahead and changed the examples to /wiː/ as in tweet, but I’m willing to discuss this further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stanaita ( talk • contribs) 09:05, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
References
What are the two little bars under the geminate consonants called? Like ɕ͈ 73.118.208.246 ( talk) 02:34, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
I remember seeing /s/ formerly represented as /sʰ/ (for example at Seoul), with a useful additional aspiration mark, in line with other Korean aspirated consonants. Is there some reason this is no longer the case? Thanks. Wolfdog ( talk) 13:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Wikipedia Help NA‑class | ||||||
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![]() | Linguistics: Phonetics NA‑class | |||||||||
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![]() | Korea NA‑class | ||||||
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Since ͈ doesn't show up on my (and possibly many others') IE display, maybe we should immitate its graphical equivalent. If it's a "subscript double straight quotation mark" does that mean that ◌͈ is ◌" ? — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The vowels must have different notes! -- Kjoon lee 22:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi, Korean has a distinction between plain, aspirated and tense stops.
Thus I strongly object to the use of English words like "spar / star / scar" to denote anything other than tense stops. -- Kjoon lee 22:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
This chart can now be transcluded through {{ IPA-ko}}. kwami ( talk) 06:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Given that //tɕoŋlo// is pronounced /tɕoŋno/, our description of /n/ would appear to be wrong. But the claim that both ㄹㄴ and ㄴㄹ may be /ll/ has stood for some time without correction. Can someone elucidate? kwami ( talk) 07:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Kwami, can you be more clear why you reverted alignment of the layout in this help page? − Woodstone ( talk) 21:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Can someone check Seung-Hui Cho? Is Hui really pronounced [ɣi]? kwami ( talk) 08:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Please edit the sound notation of ㅇ. It can be silent, not always sounded.
Is this reflective of how this template is used on Wikipedia? If so, it should be deprecated since we're trying to stick with one variety that happens to be Standard South Korean pronunciation. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 08:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Could somebody with more knowledge of Hangul than me look over the article on the Jeolla dialect? The transcriptions don't look right to me. For example, the tenuis consonants of Korean have voiced allophones inside of words.
While we're at it, it couldn't hurt to look at the material on other dialects as well (assuming there is any, because there doesn't seem to be much on them, period). Thanks. - AlexanderKaras ( talk) 03:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Ahn & Iverson 2007 mention a new diphthong, /ɯi/. Is there a reference for using a voiced velar approximant for the diphthong instead?
Here is the Ahn & Iverson 2007 citation:
Ahn, S., & Iverson, G. K. (2007). Structured Imbalances in the Emergence of the Korean Vowel System. Historical Linguistics 2005: Selected papers from the 17th International Conference on Historical Linguistics, Madison, Wisconsin, 31 July - 5 August 2005 (pp. 275-293). Philadelphia: John Benjamins. Retrieved 28 December 2010 from http://www.uwm.edu/~iverson/kordiph.pdf Flexlingie ( talk) 20:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Isn't ㅟ still pronounced [y] by some older speakers? This ref seems to back that up, making it contemporaneous with [ø] for ㅚ. We had that in the chart once, but it was deleted as unreferenced. For a basic chart, maybe we should remove both? — kwami ( talk) 08:59, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm now curious as to why ɯ is used as the unrounded counterpart for u? Most all other references I've seen refer to the vowel as ɨ (e.g., Lee & Ramsey 2000; Sohn 1999; Kim 1999; Ahn & Iverson 2007; Yang 1996; Yoon 1996; Yang 1992; Kim 1968). Sohn 1999 describes the sound as a high, back, unrounded vowel (p. 156), so I would tend to agree based on that description that it should be ɯ. However, Ahn & Iverson 2007 describe it as a central vowel. What are your thoughts, and what other references have you found that help clarify this issue? Flexlingie ( talk) 02:35, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Bad transcription. I fixed up the consonants, but don't know about vowel length. — kwami ( talk) 06:57, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Cleaning up the transcriptions, and I've come across a fair number with [ɸ] before [w]. Do we want to transcribe that way, or should 회 just be [hwe]? — kwami ( talk) 09:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
I would appreciate IPA transcriptions for Noh Seung-yul and Bae Sang-moon. ( suoı̣ʇnqı̣ɹʇuoɔ · ʞlɐʇ) nɯnuı̣ɥԀ 16:24, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
The sounds /ɦ/ and /j/ appear to be absent from this chart, even though they are both used in Park Geun-hye. I assume /ɦ/ is an allophone of /h/, while /j/ simply seems to have been forgotten, hasn't it? MuDavid ( talk) 07:28, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 16:17, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
What English dialect is being used for the vowels here? The "e" in "set" is claimed to be IPA [e], but it is definitely [ɛ] in both GA and RP - so says Wiktionary, anyway. Wiktionary also refers to "says" as having [ɛ], and "rays" as having [eɪ], which would presumably make it closer to [e]. Perhaps this should be cleared up, somehow? - Franxz ( talk) 20:58, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi. Please add the IPA pronunciation of the word Gapjil in the namesake article. Thanks! Thinker78 ( talk) 05:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi, it seems as if users Aeusoes1 and Nardog both have an issue with me trying to make the approximation for the Korean ʌ a bit more accurate to its phonetic sound because I have listened to both this vowel in Korean and the vowel used in RP for words like strut, mud etc. and from what I've listened the sound used for Korean is absolutely NOT the same as the ʌ sound used in RP. Yes the same symbol is used in RP I will admit for traditional/convenience purposes but even though Nardog claimed when reverting my second edit that strut is the same in RP and GA, the symbol in RP actually phonetically represents the Near-open central vowel (ɐ), not the Open-mid back unrounded vowel like Korean and to say otherwise is very misleading in my opinion. The open-mid back unrounded vowel to me sounds a lot closer phonetically to the vowel used in the English words like song or off rather than mud, strut (except perhaps in American English because this vowel is used in some American dialects from what the link from that sound shows) in RP which is why I don't think mud is a very accurate approximation to use here (to me at least as I grew up in England even though I'm off Asian origin). Another reason why I'm interested in changing the approximation is because I've recently listened to the Korean pronunciation of Samsung in some videos (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7anPmip9Xf4) which to my English ears sound a lot like "samsong" rather than "samsahng" as it would in RP and many other English dialects in the south of England which was why I changed the approximation to off before Aeusoes1 reverted it claiming Korean phonology explained it, but when I looked into that article afterwards, I saw no explanation whatsoever to suggest that the vowel is the same as in RP. Due to listening to Koreans pronouncing Samsung, looking for the phonetic sounds in Wikipedia was rather confusing for me because the same IPA ʌ symbol is used in RP and Korean despite the sounds being somewhat different for both and the approximation here stating it sounds like mud in English, now it probably would in some American, South African and a few South East England accents but the sound is completely different to the RP one. I probably would have reverted Nardogs edit if it wasn't for the fact that I attempt to avoid edit wars when possible and because for the most part I do respect other peoples opinions. So I would be very grateful if either Aeusoes1 and Nardog or anyone else can point me in the right direction and if possible, explain to me either why the mud approximation should be kept or if there is another way to change that than what I was doing, many thanks. Broman178 ( talk) 05:32, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Given that most speakers of Standard Korean do not have front rounded vowels in their phonological inventory anymore [1], should we keep recommending English /juː/ as in refute as an approximation of /y ~ wi/? The closest mapping for Korean /ø ~ we/ is probably English /wɛ/ as in wet, but the onglide in Korean /y ~ wi/ is a lot more palatal, and it contrasts with /ɰi/. I went ahead and changed the examples to /wiː/ as in tweet, but I’m willing to discuss this further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stanaita ( talk • contribs) 09:05, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
References
What are the two little bars under the geminate consonants called? Like ɕ͈ 73.118.208.246 ( talk) 02:34, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
I remember seeing /s/ formerly represented as /sʰ/ (for example at Seoul), with a useful additional aspiration mark, in line with other Korean aspirated consonants. Is there some reason this is no longer the case? Thanks. Wolfdog ( talk) 13:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)