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This article makes no mention of what is arguably Vaush's most important controversy: He has sexually harassed people online in the past and had to rebrand and change names to avoid the fallout. Given there is a section dedicated to his controversies, this should be at the top. Anything else is dishonesty. This 100% happened and Vaush has acknowledged wrongdoing, there is record of this. 2601:CF:80:5220:6DDF:6FCB:83ED:6EDE ( talk) 13:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
This article is suspiciously devoid of any of the numerous controversies Ian has been involved in. He's a political steamer, like every other he has controversies.
Notably absent is the recent revalation that he apparently keeps files depicting acts of beastiality when he accidentally broadcast the contents of one of his computer's folders on stream. 2605:59C8:2052:6F00:D08:5D2A:3129:C3A3 ( talk) 20:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
(Redacted) Letdown101 ( talk) 16:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Lib twitter will do it's darndest to keep these off the page despite Vaush's myriad statements concerning these topics. 2A00:23C6:229D:D301:B4F2:4445:DFBC:C11E ( talk) 12:19, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
I recall seeing polytech as his education and why are mentions of loli, horse, and sexual harassment and political controversy not mentioned. 2601:1C2:1B7F:6C30:7061:202D:339F:7B40 ( talk) 17:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Many of the sources of this article come from left-leaning news sites that share Vaush's point of view. The article also calls right-wing content "radicalization".
Many of his controversies aren't mentioned. Vaush has been outed in the past for sexual harassment, advocacy in favour of child pornography, racism, anti-antisemitism, and his possession of lolicon and beastiality. Cimmaron1 ( talk) 13:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Vaush has many missing controversies, all of which have been pointed out numerous times in this thread. How about instead of complaining of a ‘lack of sources’ the Wikipedia editors actually start doing some editing and researching? That way you can at least pretend you aren’t trying to keep this page clean from (Redacted) rumours for some bizarre reason. 120.154.136.100 ( talk) 08:14, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
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Has obsession with having sex with horses. Calls everyone Nazis. 146.168.42.180 ( talk) 07:20, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The current IPA pronunciation listed is /vɔːʃ/. What is up for contention is the vowel. The vowel in the current IPA transcription is a long open-mid back rounded vowel, /ɔː/, which is the non-rhotic "or" sound, or "law" in RP. I disagree with this vowel being the IPA transcription, and shall explain.
Here is the IPA vowel chart with audio to listen to how the vowels sound (note, there are differences within accents);
IPA: Vowels | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Legend: unrounded • rounded |
First, the vowel in 'Vaush' is definitely a rounded vowel, so there's not really a dispute there. It is also a long vowel, which should be noted when evaluating the vowel.
There a few (non-joke [a]) options for the vowel which I shall list, then evaluate each in turn.
Option 1 (current IPA transcription): first, the pronunciation of "vorsh" is used as a joking spelling of a mispronunciation within the community; this is the pronunciation used by creators such as,
Carl Benjamin, and is noticably different from the pronunciation used by Vaush himself and the
pronunciation in the article. If you say "vaush" in the correct way, you can feel with your tongue that the vowel is an open vowel, rather than an open-mid vowel.
Option 2 vs Option 3: The distinction between these is nasalization. You can tell that the vowel isn't nasal, because if you do it then hold your nose the vowel sound remains the same.
So I think it should be /vɒːʃ/.
I'm I was making this an RfC, so; here are the RfC options. Feel free to add more if the IPA transcription you support isn't listed.
A Socialist Trans Girl 04:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
That is all. NesserWiki ( talk) 06:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello, other editors. I saw this page is semi-protected so I won't edit it, but I have some important points to raise nonetheless.
As other users have pointed out, Vaush has been subject to numerous controversies, including very recently.
Many editors have shot down including these controversies here on the grounds their sources violate WP:RS and WP:BLPRS. As far as I understand this prohibits Tweets, YouTube Videos, and Livestream clips — especially those that are self-published.
I'm not here to challenge Wikipedia's sourcing rules. I'm only here to say that these rules should be applied consistently, as several references present in this article violate those rules.
My main problem is that this article employs YouTube videos and Tweets to boltser Kochinski's perspective, giving this article an unfair pro-Kockinski bent and promoting his content. It's frankly hypocritical that this page will not employ these same kinds of sources when covering the subject's numerous controversies.
Below are the bad references I found at the time of publishing this and the problems they have. These references should be substituted, and if that can't be done, the information held up by said references should be removed.
1: I recommend replacing it with the Social Blade or another similar site instead of linking it to his YouTube Channel.
4: This is just a one-sentence write up from an organization the article's subject was involved with. Why is this here? Of what value is this? It links to nowhere else. Just delete it.
6: I understand this is pretty benign info, and is most likely okay under Wikipedia's rules, but it's still a Tweet and comes off as promotional.
7: If YouTube videos are unreliable sources, then this YouTube video shouldn't be relied on to establish the facts of his early life. It also falls under the premise of being self-published.
11: This is another self-published YouTube video, with a pretty hyperbolic headline. This shouldn't be used as a source, even for info as benign as ethnic heritage. There has to be a better source for this.
24: Why is a Tweet the only source for how much money was raised for charity? Unlike birthdays or ethnicity, this is not very benign info.
30 & 34: Both of these are YouTube videos of Kochinski spinning controversies he was involved in. If YouTube videos are not reliable sources for controversies/online drama, then these should be removed. Similar videos from this creator have shot down by other editors as sources for drama.
If it is decided these above videos should be kept, then other YouTube videos be used as sources for other drama, no?
37 & 42: These are also YouTube videos where the subject is interviewed, so they might also be problematic and violate Wikipedia's rules around sourcing, but I'm not sure.
-- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 15:06, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
he later renounced his statements. Why would this not be an appropriate use of the reference? For what it's worth I don't think the quote is strictly necessary, but indicating that he later recanted is useful to have in the article, and reference 34 provides the evidence for that. Primefac ( talk) 16:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
who debates and discusses politics online from a libertarian socialist perspective" entirely.
Hey other editors. The most recent edit by @ Chefs-kiss — Perma Link here — appears to only employ two livestream clips and a Tweet in its reference as evidence of Kochinski's endorsement of a politcal candidate. Given Kochinski's involvement in other campaigns is sourced to outside news organizations and the conversations that have been had in above Talk threads, I think we need different sources for this claim. What do other editors think? -- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 19:53, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
So, I found a source that briefly goes over Kochinski's alleged misconduct in Fedruary of this year that I have not seen suggested in the archived or above talk pages ― Link here. Said article's subject is another streamer, Clara Sorenti a.k.a. Keffals, only mentioning Kochinski toward the bottom.
The article was published by The SportsGrail, a website that seems to be based out of India and focuses on sports as well as pop and internet culture. This outlet is used as a reference on other Wikipedia articles, including those relating to e-celebs, and hasn't been contested as of yet.
I did ask about the website in general on Wikipedia:Reliable Sources/Noticeboard a few weeks ago, but no one responded before the section was archived. As far as I could tell, I was the first person to ever ask about the publication there.
On those notes, how reliable and/or useful would you guys consider this source to be?
-- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 23:49, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vaush article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | There have been attempts to recruit editors of specific viewpoints to this article. If you've come here in response to such recruitment, please review the relevant Wikipedia policy on recruitment of editors, as well as the neutral point of view policy. Disputes on Wikipedia are resolved by consensus, not by majority vote. |
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article makes no mention of what is arguably Vaush's most important controversy: He has sexually harassed people online in the past and had to rebrand and change names to avoid the fallout. Given there is a section dedicated to his controversies, this should be at the top. Anything else is dishonesty. This 100% happened and Vaush has acknowledged wrongdoing, there is record of this. 2601:CF:80:5220:6DDF:6FCB:83ED:6EDE ( talk) 13:45, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
This article is suspiciously devoid of any of the numerous controversies Ian has been involved in. He's a political steamer, like every other he has controversies.
Notably absent is the recent revalation that he apparently keeps files depicting acts of beastiality when he accidentally broadcast the contents of one of his computer's folders on stream. 2605:59C8:2052:6F00:D08:5D2A:3129:C3A3 ( talk) 20:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
(Redacted) Letdown101 ( talk) 16:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Lib twitter will do it's darndest to keep these off the page despite Vaush's myriad statements concerning these topics. 2A00:23C6:229D:D301:B4F2:4445:DFBC:C11E ( talk) 12:19, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
I recall seeing polytech as his education and why are mentions of loli, horse, and sexual harassment and political controversy not mentioned. 2601:1C2:1B7F:6C30:7061:202D:339F:7B40 ( talk) 17:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Many of the sources of this article come from left-leaning news sites that share Vaush's point of view. The article also calls right-wing content "radicalization".
Many of his controversies aren't mentioned. Vaush has been outed in the past for sexual harassment, advocacy in favour of child pornography, racism, anti-antisemitism, and his possession of lolicon and beastiality. Cimmaron1 ( talk) 13:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Vaush has many missing controversies, all of which have been pointed out numerous times in this thread. How about instead of complaining of a ‘lack of sources’ the Wikipedia editors actually start doing some editing and researching? That way you can at least pretend you aren’t trying to keep this page clean from (Redacted) rumours for some bizarre reason. 120.154.136.100 ( talk) 08:14, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Has obsession with having sex with horses. Calls everyone Nazis. 146.168.42.180 ( talk) 07:20, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The current IPA pronunciation listed is /vɔːʃ/. What is up for contention is the vowel. The vowel in the current IPA transcription is a long open-mid back rounded vowel, /ɔː/, which is the non-rhotic "or" sound, or "law" in RP. I disagree with this vowel being the IPA transcription, and shall explain.
Here is the IPA vowel chart with audio to listen to how the vowels sound (note, there are differences within accents);
IPA: Vowels | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Legend: unrounded • rounded |
First, the vowel in 'Vaush' is definitely a rounded vowel, so there's not really a dispute there. It is also a long vowel, which should be noted when evaluating the vowel.
There a few (non-joke [a]) options for the vowel which I shall list, then evaluate each in turn.
Option 1 (current IPA transcription): first, the pronunciation of "vorsh" is used as a joking spelling of a mispronunciation within the community; this is the pronunciation used by creators such as,
Carl Benjamin, and is noticably different from the pronunciation used by Vaush himself and the
pronunciation in the article. If you say "vaush" in the correct way, you can feel with your tongue that the vowel is an open vowel, rather than an open-mid vowel.
Option 2 vs Option 3: The distinction between these is nasalization. You can tell that the vowel isn't nasal, because if you do it then hold your nose the vowel sound remains the same.
So I think it should be /vɒːʃ/.
I'm I was making this an RfC, so; here are the RfC options. Feel free to add more if the IPA transcription you support isn't listed.
A Socialist Trans Girl 04:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
That is all. NesserWiki ( talk) 06:54, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello, other editors. I saw this page is semi-protected so I won't edit it, but I have some important points to raise nonetheless.
As other users have pointed out, Vaush has been subject to numerous controversies, including very recently.
Many editors have shot down including these controversies here on the grounds their sources violate WP:RS and WP:BLPRS. As far as I understand this prohibits Tweets, YouTube Videos, and Livestream clips — especially those that are self-published.
I'm not here to challenge Wikipedia's sourcing rules. I'm only here to say that these rules should be applied consistently, as several references present in this article violate those rules.
My main problem is that this article employs YouTube videos and Tweets to boltser Kochinski's perspective, giving this article an unfair pro-Kockinski bent and promoting his content. It's frankly hypocritical that this page will not employ these same kinds of sources when covering the subject's numerous controversies.
Below are the bad references I found at the time of publishing this and the problems they have. These references should be substituted, and if that can't be done, the information held up by said references should be removed.
1: I recommend replacing it with the Social Blade or another similar site instead of linking it to his YouTube Channel.
4: This is just a one-sentence write up from an organization the article's subject was involved with. Why is this here? Of what value is this? It links to nowhere else. Just delete it.
6: I understand this is pretty benign info, and is most likely okay under Wikipedia's rules, but it's still a Tweet and comes off as promotional.
7: If YouTube videos are unreliable sources, then this YouTube video shouldn't be relied on to establish the facts of his early life. It also falls under the premise of being self-published.
11: This is another self-published YouTube video, with a pretty hyperbolic headline. This shouldn't be used as a source, even for info as benign as ethnic heritage. There has to be a better source for this.
24: Why is a Tweet the only source for how much money was raised for charity? Unlike birthdays or ethnicity, this is not very benign info.
30 & 34: Both of these are YouTube videos of Kochinski spinning controversies he was involved in. If YouTube videos are not reliable sources for controversies/online drama, then these should be removed. Similar videos from this creator have shot down by other editors as sources for drama.
If it is decided these above videos should be kept, then other YouTube videos be used as sources for other drama, no?
37 & 42: These are also YouTube videos where the subject is interviewed, so they might also be problematic and violate Wikipedia's rules around sourcing, but I'm not sure.
-- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 15:06, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
he later renounced his statements. Why would this not be an appropriate use of the reference? For what it's worth I don't think the quote is strictly necessary, but indicating that he later recanted is useful to have in the article, and reference 34 provides the evidence for that. Primefac ( talk) 16:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
who debates and discusses politics online from a libertarian socialist perspective" entirely.
Hey other editors. The most recent edit by @ Chefs-kiss — Perma Link here — appears to only employ two livestream clips and a Tweet in its reference as evidence of Kochinski's endorsement of a politcal candidate. Given Kochinski's involvement in other campaigns is sourced to outside news organizations and the conversations that have been had in above Talk threads, I think we need different sources for this claim. What do other editors think? -- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 19:53, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
So, I found a source that briefly goes over Kochinski's alleged misconduct in Fedruary of this year that I have not seen suggested in the archived or above talk pages ― Link here. Said article's subject is another streamer, Clara Sorenti a.k.a. Keffals, only mentioning Kochinski toward the bottom.
The article was published by The SportsGrail, a website that seems to be based out of India and focuses on sports as well as pop and internet culture. This outlet is used as a reference on other Wikipedia articles, including those relating to e-celebs, and hasn't been contested as of yet.
I did ask about the website in general on Wikipedia:Reliable Sources/Noticeboard a few weeks ago, but no one responded before the section was archived. As far as I could tell, I was the first person to ever ask about the publication there.
On those notes, how reliable and/or useful would you guys consider this source to be?
-- Solitaire Wanderer ( talk) 23:49, 20 June 2024 (UTC)