![]() | This page contains a translation of Marché noir en France pendant la Seconde Guerre Mondiale from fr.wikipedia. |
@ Elinruby:, I think all refs to the current revision ( 1171771242) are done now. This includes refs inside the hidden comments, so as you translate, I'm expecting the {{ sfn}} templates to just work, and link properly to the full citations in the bibliography transcluded here from live, and then when you merge the completed translation back into live, it should continue to work there, as it will be seeing the identical bibliography there as here; everything should just work seamlessly. Let me know if it doesn't. Mathglot ( talk) 03:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: thanks, this is better than my plan, which was to worry about named references when done. But there is, as we see,a great deal of reuse. I have been seeing some new references, not in Harvard format, and am simply translating the format for the moment, but yes, since the page is using Harvard references, they should be added to the bibliography. And yes, 2 is better. Elinruby ( talk) 20:14, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Ok well, that was an eyewatering lesson in doing one thing at a time. Thank you very much for your help. Need a short break now that we at least aren't throwing errors but I see and understand the note above about GrCe, and yes I can do that in maybe half an hour. And per earlier conversation check to make sure all these new references are in the bibliography? Btw, forget what I said on the talk page about the Milice. It comes up in the next sections and it's cited. Back soon. Elinruby ( talk) 00:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
Work sheet #2 for adjusting refs from the French article – reference conversion details.
|
---|
If these refs appear in the French source, they need to be converted to {{ sfn}}s: <ref group="Gr" name=":17" /> or <ref name=":17" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=132-146}} <ref group="Gr" name=":18" /> or <ref name=":18" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=147-151}} <ref group="Gr" name=":19">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=152-155}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":19" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=152-155}} <ref group="Gr" name=":20">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=155-165}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":20" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=155-165}} <ref group="Gr" name=":21">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=166-181}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":21" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=166-181}}k (or, {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=148–149}}? double-check this one) <ref name=":23" group="Gr" /> <ref group="Gr" name=":23">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=188-193}}</ref> or <ref name=":23" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=188-193}} <ref group="Gr" name=":24">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=194-203}}</ref> or <ref name=":24" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=194-203}} <ref group="Gr" name=":25">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=204-209}}</ref> or <ref name=":25" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=204–209}} <ref group="Gr" name=":26">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=211-217}}</ref> or <ref name=":26" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=211-217}} <ref group="Gr" name=":27">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=217-226}}</ref> or <ref name=":27" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=217-226}} <ref group="Gr" name=":28">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=227-233}}</ref> or <ref name=":28" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=227-233}} <ref name=GrCE group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2010a|p=132–158}} <ref group="Sa" name=":12">{{Harvsp|Sanders|2001|p=86-89}}</ref> ⟶ {{sfn|Sanders|2001|p=86-89}} <ref name=":3" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2010a|pp=132-158}} <ref name=":4" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Chélini|2023|pp=237–264}} <ref name=":5"> ⟶ {{sfn|Capdevila|1999|pages=250-260}} # Note: the /tip draft has this as <ref name=": 5"> (with space) <ref name=":6" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Fishman|2008|p=65-108}} <ref name=":13" /> and <ref name="twenty-one"> (wtf?) ⟶ {{sfn|de Rochebrune|Hazera|2013|p=185-236}} <ref name=":14"> ⟶ {{sfn|Berlière|2018|p=800-809}} <ref name=":16"> and <ref name="twenty-seven"> ?? ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|Mouré|2008|p=51–68}} <ref name=":19" /> {{sfn|Mouré|2020|pp=267-280}} <ref name=":23" /> or <ref name=":23">...</ref> ⟶ {{sfn|Radtke-Delacor|2010|p=128-129}} <ref name="Seconde Guerre mondiale"> ⟶ {{sfn|Lastécouères|2022|p=79-103}} |
Do you see Cite error: There are <ref group=XX> tags on this page, but ... below this? Ignore them. M.
Please don't run SFNs or French citations through automatic translation. It's hard enough dealing with the screwed up refs in that article, without making it worse by auto-translating the refs; I'm seeing:
{{Chapitre|prénom=Florent|nom=Le Bot|...
ending up as
{{cite book|language=en|first1=Bot|last1=Florence|...
(in section
§ Confiscation of illicit profits), and sfn's like {{sfn|The Bot|...}}
. I've fixed that one example (see
diff), but if you can just leave French sfn's and citations unchanged from the French original, the CS1 translator (and AnomieBOT) will handle most of them, and in the case of {{
Chapitre}}, that's handled by the sandbox currently, but when you're done importing text, just lmk and I'll temporarily point the redirect at the sandbox, and it will pick up all the {{
Chapitre}}s and translate them. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk) 19:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
<ref name="twenty-one">
in section
§ Confiscation of illicit profits took me forever to disentangle; I had to track it back to the original in section
Confiscation des profits illicites of the French article (and find it following the words "y est assassiné en juin 1945") to find it there as <ref name=":13" />
, then track that to section
Forces d'occupation, but there was a mismatch between the "twenty-one" def and the "Ouvrage" in the original, as the "title" in the /tip had the authors, but no actual title; however the rest (pub, year, etc.) all matched up, and the pages almost did, so I realized that "twenty-one" was actually <ref name=":13" />
from the French article, i.e., {{Ouvrage|auteur1=Renaud de Rochebrune|auteur2=Jean-Claude Hazera|titre=Les patrons sous l’Occupation|passage=185-236|lieu=Paris|éditeur=Odile Jacob|date=2013|pages totales=962|isbn=9782738129383|lire en ligne=https://www.cairn.info/les-patrons-sous-l-occupation--9782738129383.htm}}
, so I started to create it, but then realized we had it all along in the Bibliography already, so we just need to add {{sfn|de Rochebrune|Hazera|2013|p=185-236}}
in place of <ref name="twenty-one">
to refer to it. In a case like this, with a named ref (<ref name=":13">
) either just leave it that way, or if you resolve it, add something to the Ref error resolution worksheet; or if you have to change the ref name for some reason, then please leave breadcrumbs in place, e.g. <ref name="twenty-one"><!--Note: named ':13' in the original-->
or similar. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk) 21:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Suggested procedure for importing/converting citations from the French article
|
---|
|
Morning @ Elinruby: @ Mathglot: What is the condition. Do you think this it is good enough to copy across to mainspace. I see there was some updates last night to fix some of my mistake. Can we copy across it today if possible. I'm not too worried about copyedits. A lot of the copyediting can be done prior to submitting it for peer review and I have several copyeditors I work with that can do a lot of that work. I'm more worried about translation errors at the moment. scope_creep Talk 09:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This page contains a translation of Marché noir en France pendant la Seconde Guerre Mondiale from fr.wikipedia. |
@ Elinruby:, I think all refs to the current revision ( 1171771242) are done now. This includes refs inside the hidden comments, so as you translate, I'm expecting the {{ sfn}} templates to just work, and link properly to the full citations in the bibliography transcluded here from live, and then when you merge the completed translation back into live, it should continue to work there, as it will be seeing the identical bibliography there as here; everything should just work seamlessly. Let me know if it doesn't. Mathglot ( talk) 03:48, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
@ Mathglot: thanks, this is better than my plan, which was to worry about named references when done. But there is, as we see,a great deal of reuse. I have been seeing some new references, not in Harvard format, and am simply translating the format for the moment, but yes, since the page is using Harvard references, they should be added to the bibliography. And yes, 2 is better. Elinruby ( talk) 20:14, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Ok well, that was an eyewatering lesson in doing one thing at a time. Thank you very much for your help. Need a short break now that we at least aren't throwing errors but I see and understand the note above about GrCe, and yes I can do that in maybe half an hour. And per earlier conversation check to make sure all these new references are in the bibliography? Btw, forget what I said on the talk page about the Milice. It comes up in the next sections and it's cited. Back soon. Elinruby ( talk) 00:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
Work sheet #2 for adjusting refs from the French article – reference conversion details.
|
---|
If these refs appear in the French source, they need to be converted to {{ sfn}}s: <ref group="Gr" name=":17" /> or <ref name=":17" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=132-146}} <ref group="Gr" name=":18" /> or <ref name=":18" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=147-151}} <ref group="Gr" name=":19">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=152-155}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":19" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=152-155}} <ref group="Gr" name=":20">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=155-165}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":20" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=155-165}} <ref group="Gr" name=":21">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=166-181}}</ref> or <ref group="Gr" name=":21" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=166-181}}k (or, {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=148–149}}? double-check this one) <ref name=":23" group="Gr" /> <ref group="Gr" name=":23">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=188-193}}</ref> or <ref name=":23" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=188-193}} <ref group="Gr" name=":24">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=194-203}}</ref> or <ref name=":24" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=194-203}} <ref group="Gr" name=":25">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=204-209}}</ref> or <ref name=":25" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=204–209}} <ref group="Gr" name=":26">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=211-217}}</ref> or <ref name=":26" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=211-217}} <ref group="Gr" name=":27">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=217-226}}</ref> or <ref name=":27" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=217-226}} <ref group="Gr" name=":28">{{Harvsp|Grenard|2008|p=227-233}}</ref> or <ref name=":28" group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2008|p=227-233}} <ref name=GrCE group="Gr" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2010a|p=132–158}} <ref group="Sa" name=":12">{{Harvsp|Sanders|2001|p=86-89}}</ref> ⟶ {{sfn|Sanders|2001|p=86-89}} <ref name=":3" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|2010a|pp=132-158}} <ref name=":4" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Chélini|2023|pp=237–264}} <ref name=":5"> ⟶ {{sfn|Capdevila|1999|pages=250-260}} # Note: the /tip draft has this as <ref name=": 5"> (with space) <ref name=":6" /> ⟶ {{sfn|Fishman|2008|p=65-108}} <ref name=":13" /> and <ref name="twenty-one"> (wtf?) ⟶ {{sfn|de Rochebrune|Hazera|2013|p=185-236}} <ref name=":14"> ⟶ {{sfn|Berlière|2018|p=800-809}} <ref name=":16"> and <ref name="twenty-seven"> ?? ⟶ {{sfn|Grenard|Mouré|2008|p=51–68}} <ref name=":19" /> {{sfn|Mouré|2020|pp=267-280}} <ref name=":23" /> or <ref name=":23">...</ref> ⟶ {{sfn|Radtke-Delacor|2010|p=128-129}} <ref name="Seconde Guerre mondiale"> ⟶ {{sfn|Lastécouères|2022|p=79-103}} |
Do you see Cite error: There are <ref group=XX> tags on this page, but ... below this? Ignore them. M.
Please don't run SFNs or French citations through automatic translation. It's hard enough dealing with the screwed up refs in that article, without making it worse by auto-translating the refs; I'm seeing:
{{Chapitre|prénom=Florent|nom=Le Bot|...
ending up as
{{cite book|language=en|first1=Bot|last1=Florence|...
(in section
§ Confiscation of illicit profits), and sfn's like {{sfn|The Bot|...}}
. I've fixed that one example (see
diff), but if you can just leave French sfn's and citations unchanged from the French original, the CS1 translator (and AnomieBOT) will handle most of them, and in the case of {{
Chapitre}}, that's handled by the sandbox currently, but when you're done importing text, just lmk and I'll temporarily point the redirect at the sandbox, and it will pick up all the {{
Chapitre}}s and translate them. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk) 19:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
<ref name="twenty-one">
in section
§ Confiscation of illicit profits took me forever to disentangle; I had to track it back to the original in section
Confiscation des profits illicites of the French article (and find it following the words "y est assassiné en juin 1945") to find it there as <ref name=":13" />
, then track that to section
Forces d'occupation, but there was a mismatch between the "twenty-one" def and the "Ouvrage" in the original, as the "title" in the /tip had the authors, but no actual title; however the rest (pub, year, etc.) all matched up, and the pages almost did, so I realized that "twenty-one" was actually <ref name=":13" />
from the French article, i.e., {{Ouvrage|auteur1=Renaud de Rochebrune|auteur2=Jean-Claude Hazera|titre=Les patrons sous l’Occupation|passage=185-236|lieu=Paris|éditeur=Odile Jacob|date=2013|pages totales=962|isbn=9782738129383|lire en ligne=https://www.cairn.info/les-patrons-sous-l-occupation--9782738129383.htm}}
, so I started to create it, but then realized we had it all along in the Bibliography already, so we just need to add {{sfn|de Rochebrune|Hazera|2013|p=185-236}}
in place of <ref name="twenty-one">
to refer to it. In a case like this, with a named ref (<ref name=":13">
) either just leave it that way, or if you resolve it, add something to the Ref error resolution worksheet; or if you have to change the ref name for some reason, then please leave breadcrumbs in place, e.g. <ref name="twenty-one"><!--Note: named ':13' in the original-->
or similar. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk) 21:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Suggested procedure for importing/converting citations from the French article
|
---|
|
Morning @ Elinruby: @ Mathglot: What is the condition. Do you think this it is good enough to copy across to mainspace. I see there was some updates last night to fix some of my mistake. Can we copy across it today if possible. I'm not too worried about copyedits. A lot of the copyediting can be done prior to submitting it for peer review and I have several copyeditors I work with that can do a lot of that work. I'm more worried about translation errors at the moment. scope_creep Talk 09:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)