This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
I know with categories you can force an article to show up under the right letter by adding a parameter to the category code -- for example [[Category:American horror writers|King, Stephen]] to make it show up under "K" rather than "S". I tried this with a stub (specifically with horror-film-stub on The Aftermath (film)) and it had no effect. Is there a way to do this? -- Bookgrrl 22:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
This has been discussed many times before, including earlier on this page (I would also suggest going through the archives of this page as well). It's a lot of extra work, not everyone does it, it messes up bot renames, the list goes on. In general, we pretty much avoid doing that. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 23:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Since it has been discussed many times before, and consensus suggests that for stubs it should be in "article" name order, why not make this an explicit part of the stub sorting instructions/guidelines? I came here today for exacty this information (my preference being LN,FN, for reasons already enumerated) and it was not an easy route to enlightenment. Thanks to those who asked, and those who answered (with their reasons). I will now go forth to help order the wiki--and, as always, hoping not to screw it up myself! RCEberwein | Talk 02:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I've tried again to raise this issue at the stub guideline page; please comment there, if you have any views on this. Alai 02:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
This one's an odd one - I'm not sure what's causing it... I'm busily replacing NZ-geo-stub with the region-specific templates. I started by going through Category:new Zealand geography stubs, but then realised that, since a lot of the regional templates still feed back into there, it would be easier to work from the "whatlinkshere" of {{ NZ-geo-stub}}. The odd thing is that a lot of the articles in that whatlinkshere list, ones transcluded with the template, don't show up in the category. I've no idea why not, but the two attached thumbnails (fuzzy though they are - sorry!) should show you what I mean. Where in the cat is Alfred River, Allen River, Boulder River, Blind River or Aorere River? Since these will soon have different templates, the problem will disappear from these particular articles - but if it's a widespread problem elsewhere it's quite concerning. Grutness... wha? 01:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. A couple of days ago I speedied a template called stub-group, which was basically a multistub template of the form {{stub-group|x-stub|y-stub}}, which, when added to an article, would give it both x-stub and y-stub. I speedied it as basically a re-creation of a type of template we've had here in the past which has been deleted after a lot of frowning. Anyhow, I got into an interesting discussion with its creator ( User:Jerzy) which quickly became too technical for me, but which might be of interest to anyone who knows a little about how markup and the like work - sounds like Jerzy would be interested in talking about its possibilities, if any, with someone who knows more about the technical side of things than I do. Feel free to read what was written on my talk page (linked above) and contact Jerzy about it if you've got any thoughts! Grutness... wha? 08:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Where should the stub be located within the article? I've been looking to see if there is policy on this and can find none. Personally, I place them below the cateogires with 2 blank lines. They are usually above the other languages but not always. Your thoughts?-- Thomas.macmillan 19:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The heading says it all, really - compliments of the season to you all - may it be a happy one for you! Grutness... wha? 02:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Just stumbled across {{actor stub}} and it seemed fishy. Thought I'd let yall know. jengod 01:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
awfully named. Ideas on renaming? {{tanakh-stub}}? {{hebrew-bible-stub}}? {{Judaism-bible-stub}}? - crz crztalk 17:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, any of the imperfect alternatives is better than the status quo. What shall I ask for at SFD, people? - crz crztalk 02:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Continued at SFD. Fayenatic london 08:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Over the last few days, it seems that every time I check Category:Stubs it has more articles in it. If everyone reading this would sort, say, five of the stub articles today, we could probably clear the category and thus be able to keep it to a manageable size for a while. (The category is probably never going to be permanently cleared, but at least we could get it temporarily cleared rather than continuously expanding.) -- Metropolitan90 17:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
The subject pretty much says it all. Could Template:Astro stub be renamed to Template:Astronomy stub? It's a more logical name for it. Thanks. Mike Peel 10:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
We keep having requests to allow sorted stubs via pipes. e.g. {{stub|Last Name, First Name}}
. Now it looks like we'll be getting them like it or not. So new it isn't even in the documentation yet, the software has a new variable as of last December 29: DEFAULTSORT. (
link) {{DEFAULTSORT:Last Name, First Name}}
works on all categories in an article, including those supplied via templates, that don't specify a sort key of their own. I don't think we have any reason to get rid of this behavior, but we could by adding: |{{FULLPAGENAME}}
to the category added by every stub template.
Caerwine
Caer’s whines 19:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course, given a bit longer, and I do see various problems with this... I've commented somewhat at Wikipedia talk:Categorization#DEFAULTSORT (though perhaps here is as good or better for the aspects of this that are particular to stub types). Alai 16:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
And I've also mentioned this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#DEFAULTSORT and bio-stubs. Alai 02:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I was browsing some of the stub categories and found Bus Stubs [ [1]] . What I do not understand is why some of these exsist. Their imformational value is limited and also dynamic, as bus routes tend to change. At any given time half of these references might be invalid. I've read the guidlines for stubs but I am still unsure as to whether a one sentence article defining a Bus route and schedule in a rural Austrailian town that may or may not still be active is deserving of an entry in an Encyclopedia. It might belong in an Almanac for the region its relevent to perhaps? Finfyd 08:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)Finfyd
I created "Category:Biochemist stubs" as a sub-category of "Biologist stubs", but it is listed under "μ" on the third page of Biologist stubs instead of under "B" on the first page. Is there something in the syntax that made this happen? Scolaire 15:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
No-one faint, but there's been a db dump this weekend. I'm currently crunching some data relating to uncategorised articles. I'm not sure I'll get any hard data before I flake out, but I very much get the impression that there's a very large number, and doubtless many of them will be very short. (Most of them will be articles created in the last two months, since the last db dump, plus any that have 'lost' categories in that time.) I plan to tag these this {{
uncat}}, but would WSS favour very short uncategorised articles being instead tagged with {{
stubs}}{{
stub}}? (I'd prefer to avoid tagging them with both at once.) If so, where would people favour putting the cutoff? At 250b? 500b? 1K? I should be able to report on the likely scale of this... well, stop press, right about now: over 20916 uncatted articles total; 2408 <= 250b; 5606 <= 500b; 10141 <= 1000b.
Alai 05:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
State of play: 4685 articles in Category:stubs. I should also note that there's currently a bot approval request for doing this on a thrice-daily basis, from special:newpages (as well as "wikify" and "uncategorised"). Alai 13:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
And here's a list of deletion templates for those of us new to the db world... Her Pegship (tis herself) 00:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
On the one hand, the moon-stubs are down from oversized... to undersized (well, semi-good, at least). On the down side, in the process the Moon-crater-stubs are now at 1085. I've asked the people at the Moon wikiproject (see here), and they seem to think that these are "short but essentially complete articles", and it does seem that the bulk of these were tagged (originally as moon-stub) by one person (MER-C, whom you might recall from such incidents as having created a shedload of "planetary" stubs, most of which didn't make much sense at all). The wikiproject, and in particular the original creator of these articles, also didn't seem at all keen on the idea of merging these articles, and nor were they gone on the idea of further sorting. While personally I'm not crazy about "untagged permastubs", I'm not sure whether there's anything much else to be done in this case. Anyone have any bright ideas? Alai 12:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I just expanded Wikipedia:History of Wikipedian processes and people#Stubs. There were a lot of things in pre-stub development I wasn't aware of until I went digging. WSS folk may find it interesting, and have something to add. :) - Banyan Tree 00:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
An article already tells us about its subject, like the one about George W. Bush that says he's from Texas, that he's a US President, that he was in the oil business that he was in the National Guard, etc. But that isn't enough, apparently, because then we have categories to tell us all over again that Bush is A Person From Texas, A Person Who's A President, A Person In The Oil Business, and A Person Who Was In The National Guard. And we litter his article with category-related grids with the names of Every Person From Texas, Every US President, Every Person In The Oil Business, and Every Person Who Has Been In The National Guard, because heaven forbid someone who wants any of those lists should have to expend effort clicking a link reading "president" or "National Guard" in the body of the article to get these lists from the article in which they logically belong. And in case all of that isn't enough, when an article is a stub, we have to say it's a Texan-US-President-National-Guard-Oilman stub because if we just said it's a stub, the reader would have no way whatsoever of knowing what the article is about or what it means for it to be a stub. Good grief. — Largo Plazo 04:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, most of the peoplle involved in stub-sorting actually do a lot of work on expanding articles as well. And creating new articles, too. As for the message on the template, it is aimed at those editors who wouldn't otherwise consider editing the article (a lot of WP readers come here to do just that - read information, not edit). Those that do come here primarily to edit need some way of finding out where there articles are that need editing - hence the sorting of stubs. You can't have it both ways. It's a bit like expecting a sport season to go ahead without coaches, umpires, or physiotherapists, or a movie to be made without electricians and caterers. Someone has to do the behind the scenes work to keep things running smoothly. And, just for the record, most stub sorters do an enormous amount of work on article creation expansion as well, as well as on loads of other features of WP. I know that I've managed to help get four articles to FA standard, including being the primary editor on one front-page article, as well as adding literally hundreds of maps, illustrations and photographs to articles. I doubt I'm alone among stub sorters with doing a lot of work beyond the stub arena. Grutness... wha? 12:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, there. I've decided to go through the tool stubs (I guess I'm sorting...) since I know a fair bit about that stuff. I've gotten up to the "E"s. I'm finding alot that don't meet the description of stubs (and thus removing the tag). Is that normal? Pjbflynn 04:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Took me about 7-8 hours, but I think it sings. Did not change a single substantive thing about it either, as far as how it works, what is recommends, what procedures are, etc., etc. It's just a massive cleanup. Please see first wikilink ("The story") for proposal on how to proceed, in stages, designed to prevent the process from descending into argument and editwarring. Goal: Have WSS/NG become a formal Wikipedia Proposal and then Guideline. At a guess this is stage 1 of 4. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 11:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines/Redraft2 I have listed a bunch of unlikely-to-be-controversial improvements for the NG document. Most of these were already clearly identified in Redraft1 as HTML comments, while a few come from Redraft 1 discussion. The HTML comments just mentioned are still (as of this writing) present in Redraft2, to indicate likely insertion points. Depending on when you read this, some of them may have alread been replaced with new text, or removed because controversial. I would propose that any item on the list that anyone feels is controversial in any way should be struck out and saved for Redraft Phase 3, the dealing with controversial stuff. Several of them may require a consensus discussion to determine what exactly they should say/advise. Let's do it! — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 04:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello everybody,
I'm working on a script like TWINKLE's Speedy for Stub storting.
Obviously, I cannot include every stub type, they're too many: I need the most common 30, or the list will be too long.
Can somebody provide me that?
Thanks,
Happy Editing by Snowolf (talk) CON COI on 16:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
As it relates in part to non-consensus scope changes to, and indeed edit-warring on, certain stub types, participants may wish to see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#User:Huaiwei and User:Instantnood. Alai 05:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I've revised Template:stubsort to be more helpful to editors. Please comment on Template talk:stubsort. Thanks! — jmorgan ( talk) 21:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Recently when having my bot run through Category:Living people I was asked if I could do the stubs seperately so they could be auto-assessed as stub class. The difficulty, of course, is that a multitude of different stub templates might be in use, so building a cross-reference list wouldn't be the easiest task.
This led me to thinking how useful to automated processes an additional catch all category for stubs would be, a Category:Living people of stubs if you will. It would of course require an alteration to every stub template. Thoughts?
In the meantime, it looks like Category:Stub categories is catch all with subcategories. Is every stub (templated as such) guaranteed to be in a subcategory of this cat? -- kingboyk 16:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
{{(|.*-)stub}}
in the wikitext? Examining the categories would require looking separately at the html-as-served (though if you did, it'd be equally evident from the form of the category).
Alai 18:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've only just noticed this bot-approval request, to tag as "uncategorised" all templates not already categorised under category:wikipedia templates. (Implying, evidently, that they should all be so categorised.) Obviously, this would include almost all of the stub templates, as typically these are "only" categorised in the Category:stub categories tree (except for those that have ignore WP:STUB, and 'opted-out' of that, too). This seems like deja vu from the last time there was a flurry of stub-template categorisation, though this basis may be somewhat different. Maybe we should just protect all 3000+ of 'em as HRTs. :/ Is this indeed overcategorisation for little purpose, or am I just being the semi-proverbial Rioting Conservative Tribesperson? Alai 02:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
How are people finding the current cut-off for tagging uncatted articles with {{ stub}}? Anything being tagged that didn't look like a stub? Could the threshold stand to be raised somewhat? (It's currently 500 characters.) From either (or both) of the perspectives of the workload, and of the possibility of false positives... Alai 01:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Since the reservation about this concerned throughput rather than false positives, and since the throughput at the other likely destination is that much worse, I've gone ahead and upped the threshold to 600 bytes on the latest run from Special:Uncategorizedpages. If anyone finds this is starting to get a little too marginal, please let me know. Alai 16:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts... Would this be better expressed in terms of amount of text in the article, excluding wikimarkup? And/or as numbers of words/sentences? Alai 02:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
How about: 100 words or less, after stripping out all markup, including the contents of infoboxes and other tables? Alai 04:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
For those of you who are as hap-hazard in 'watching' project sub-pages as I am, let me draw your attention to /Stub types#Some more proposals to cut the page size. The latterly-suggested ideas would be quite far-reaching (and a real pain to later undo), so prior consensus would be preferable to posterior reversion. Alai 18:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
why not just have a stub category for every normal category? Or just use the stub tag and automatically have the stub-category assigned by the page-category? And if there is no page-category then one could be added if there were a preexisting stub-category. why not have a script do this? Has this been discussed before? -- Tim 18:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Agree with all the above. Indeed, it's such a frequent topic that we should probably have a project page that explains some of the rationale for stub category organisation, in the form of an essay or a "FAQ" (or perhaps even in a guideline sub-page, if we ever get around to refactoring WP:STUB, which I've suggested elsewhere). Alai 02:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Just a consensus-gauging question: Is it better to have the Marlon Manalo article stub-tagged with both {{ Philippines-bio-stub}} and {{ Asia-sport-bio-stub}}, or split up Category:Asian sportspeople stubs into more sub-categories such that we'd have a unified {{ Philippines-sport-bio-stub}} (and others for Vietnam, etc.) but these stub categories would be underpopulated? I guess the question is really: Is it more important for the article to look better or for stub sorting categories to be well-populated? — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 00:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed increasing use of {{ Expand}} as a surrogate stub. There's no need for an article to have both T:Espand and a stub template, and we're probably missing quite a few stubs as a result of its use as a replacement for it.
I'd like to suggest the following proposal (which would have ramifications beyond this page, so I'm double-posting this to Wikipedia talk:Stub and Template talk:Expand).
Note that {{ sectstub}} and {{ listdev}} are not counted as stub templates in general terms, nor are they for the purposes of this proposal.
From the point of view of stub sorting, the only difference this would make would be removing{{ expand}} templates from stubs as they are sorted.
Grutness... wha? 01:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
How does the stub group feel about DEFAULTSORT and if we're embracing it or not? I embraced it whole heartedly for about 2 weeks, and did the whole Category:art historian stubs category by adding default sorts so they'd all be alphabetized by last name, howver I realized it was cutting into my stub sorting time quite a bit, AND also could be hard to maintain. However if I don't do it the sorting inconsistencies will be more noticeable as time goes on. How do others feel? given a choice, or are we stuck with it? Should we embrace it? Is there a way to turn it off or BOT the entire thing? Shall we get a consensus? Goldenrowley 00:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, we did it. We've finally got the uncategorised stubs back under control. We've gone from 200 or so stubs to one in less than a week. I went in today and cleared out the last 18--however, I've gone over User:Miltopia's user page several times and I can't figure out how it got into this category. Chyel 03:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
For everybody's information,
User:Qxz has begun putting "protection" on a large number of stub templates No I haven't. I'm not even an administrator. :) But the pages ARE protected –
Qxz 09:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC), something which seems to be rather over the top to me. Has this been debated at all? I doubt this is a very good idea, and if it is done, it should be done on a very small number of templates, but there is clearly no visible pattern here; {{
Poland-bio-stub}}, {{
Austria-bio-stub}} ????
Valentinian
T /
C 08:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Valentinian T / C 09:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I assume the logic of protection is that of High-risk templates, rather than controversy as such. i.e., how much "damage" some vandalistic -- or just run-of-the-mill confused -- edit would do. (Both in terms of hitting the job queue, and collateral effects on the articles that transclude them.) Recently I came across a couple that had been blanked several weeks ago, and their categories subsequently speedy-deleted as empty... (Rather carelessly on the part of the deleter, I felt, but that's another matter.) I guess no-one was exactly making heavy use of those for expansion purposes. However, as far as I know we've never arrived at any particular formula for which should be protected, and which haven't. We could somewhat arbitrarily atart with those that are now, or have been in the past "over-sized"... (Over 800 transclusions.) Alai 17:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Another one: Template:China-geo-stub is currently semi-protected. Just in case you want to do anything with that – Qxz 12:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia has hundreds, if not thousands, of articles on chemical compounds, generally found in the many subcategories of Category:Chemical compounds by element. Unfortunately, many of these are permanent stubs and low on content, such as those listed here. Wikipedia:Chemical compounds has been created to discuss what to do with all this. Deletion is arguably a waste, but perhaps some articles can be combined into lists for greater comprehensiveness. Please join the discussion on Wikipedia talk:Chemical compounds. >Radiant< 16:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I started a discussion over at the naming guidelines talk page regarding stub categories. ( Countries: adjective or noun?) It's an age-old debate that would be nice if could be settled. Please head over there and join the discussion so we can get more than just the "usual suspects" talking about it. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 16:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
After concerns raised at WP talk:Stub about the complexity of WP:STUB, I have written a rough draft to shorten it. The new draft contains the same information, but is 25% shorter. It also removes some of the information on how to create stub templates - information which is in part responsible for the large number of "discoveries" and is also responsible (due to the misreading by some editors) of the need to trawl the non-existent Category:B stubs for stubs "about A". Please feel free to make any comments, positive or negative on my new draft ( User:Grutness/WP Stub rewrite (draft) at its talk page. (crossposted to WP talk:Stub and Template talk:Stub) Grutness... wha? 00:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Are now being bot-populated into Category:stubs. (No foolin'.) I don't exactly how many there will be by the time the run's finished, as the number of "words" in the article isn't available in the info I have from the db, and is being evaluated "live". (Let's hope my code for doing so isn't too flakey, ha-ha.) It's likely to run to a couple of thousand, though... Alai 01:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
We seem to have prevailed on a bot tagging templates as "uncategorised" if they don't have a category under Category:Wikipedia templates to skip stub templates, on the basis that they're already categorised by topic via their stub categories. However, getting on for two hundred of them aren't in any category at all, as it turns out: see User:Alai/uncatstubtemplate. This is presumably via a mixture of complete omission of a cat, and "creative" stub template coding (the (n)ever-popular "includeonly the category, noinclude a paragraphy of chit-chat", most likely). If people want to help go through these, and fix them up/standardise them, I'd be obliged. Alai 04:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Orkney has got a new flag, so could somebody replace the image on {{ Orkney-stub}} with this one? Valentinian T / C 14:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I seen some players were double catted, some were born outside their native countries and spent his career on both countries, so i keep it in both catted. But should it be only catted in their own country which he played international match (the national team), despite some of them never played for the local clubs, like, Owen Hargreaves. Matthew_hk t c 19:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Just someone cat a player from colony, but just sloely played on Portugal and their national team to double catt. (assume Eusébio). 203.185.57.117 11:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Should every stub appear here, or only those that are a) top-level, or b) have not been more narrowly categorized? I s'pect the latter, since otherwise the category would be so huge as to be useless. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont ‹(-¿-)› 12:15, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
When one is proposing a stub template and/or category, it would help those of us tidyers who list and close and update if the proposed template and/or cat names were listed. I don't want to have to guess at spelling, CamelCase, etc. when I list items for creation or archiving, An added bonus is that if you use the wiki code (i.e. {{tl|housekeeping-stub}}), when that item gets created, the link shows up and I feel confident about archiving the discussion.
Don't make me send the flying monkeys... Her Pegship (tis herself) 06:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
I know with categories you can force an article to show up under the right letter by adding a parameter to the category code -- for example [[Category:American horror writers|King, Stephen]] to make it show up under "K" rather than "S". I tried this with a stub (specifically with horror-film-stub on The Aftermath (film)) and it had no effect. Is there a way to do this? -- Bookgrrl 22:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
This has been discussed many times before, including earlier on this page (I would also suggest going through the archives of this page as well). It's a lot of extra work, not everyone does it, it messes up bot renames, the list goes on. In general, we pretty much avoid doing that. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 23:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Since it has been discussed many times before, and consensus suggests that for stubs it should be in "article" name order, why not make this an explicit part of the stub sorting instructions/guidelines? I came here today for exacty this information (my preference being LN,FN, for reasons already enumerated) and it was not an easy route to enlightenment. Thanks to those who asked, and those who answered (with their reasons). I will now go forth to help order the wiki--and, as always, hoping not to screw it up myself! RCEberwein | Talk 02:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I've tried again to raise this issue at the stub guideline page; please comment there, if you have any views on this. Alai 02:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
This one's an odd one - I'm not sure what's causing it... I'm busily replacing NZ-geo-stub with the region-specific templates. I started by going through Category:new Zealand geography stubs, but then realised that, since a lot of the regional templates still feed back into there, it would be easier to work from the "whatlinkshere" of {{ NZ-geo-stub}}. The odd thing is that a lot of the articles in that whatlinkshere list, ones transcluded with the template, don't show up in the category. I've no idea why not, but the two attached thumbnails (fuzzy though they are - sorry!) should show you what I mean. Where in the cat is Alfred River, Allen River, Boulder River, Blind River or Aorere River? Since these will soon have different templates, the problem will disappear from these particular articles - but if it's a widespread problem elsewhere it's quite concerning. Grutness... wha? 01:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. A couple of days ago I speedied a template called stub-group, which was basically a multistub template of the form {{stub-group|x-stub|y-stub}}, which, when added to an article, would give it both x-stub and y-stub. I speedied it as basically a re-creation of a type of template we've had here in the past which has been deleted after a lot of frowning. Anyhow, I got into an interesting discussion with its creator ( User:Jerzy) which quickly became too technical for me, but which might be of interest to anyone who knows a little about how markup and the like work - sounds like Jerzy would be interested in talking about its possibilities, if any, with someone who knows more about the technical side of things than I do. Feel free to read what was written on my talk page (linked above) and contact Jerzy about it if you've got any thoughts! Grutness... wha? 08:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Where should the stub be located within the article? I've been looking to see if there is policy on this and can find none. Personally, I place them below the cateogires with 2 blank lines. They are usually above the other languages but not always. Your thoughts?-- Thomas.macmillan 19:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The heading says it all, really - compliments of the season to you all - may it be a happy one for you! Grutness... wha? 02:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Just stumbled across {{actor stub}} and it seemed fishy. Thought I'd let yall know. jengod 01:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
awfully named. Ideas on renaming? {{tanakh-stub}}? {{hebrew-bible-stub}}? {{Judaism-bible-stub}}? - crz crztalk 17:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, any of the imperfect alternatives is better than the status quo. What shall I ask for at SFD, people? - crz crztalk 02:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Continued at SFD. Fayenatic london 08:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Over the last few days, it seems that every time I check Category:Stubs it has more articles in it. If everyone reading this would sort, say, five of the stub articles today, we could probably clear the category and thus be able to keep it to a manageable size for a while. (The category is probably never going to be permanently cleared, but at least we could get it temporarily cleared rather than continuously expanding.) -- Metropolitan90 17:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
The subject pretty much says it all. Could Template:Astro stub be renamed to Template:Astronomy stub? It's a more logical name for it. Thanks. Mike Peel 10:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
We keep having requests to allow sorted stubs via pipes. e.g. {{stub|Last Name, First Name}}
. Now it looks like we'll be getting them like it or not. So new it isn't even in the documentation yet, the software has a new variable as of last December 29: DEFAULTSORT. (
link) {{DEFAULTSORT:Last Name, First Name}}
works on all categories in an article, including those supplied via templates, that don't specify a sort key of their own. I don't think we have any reason to get rid of this behavior, but we could by adding: |{{FULLPAGENAME}}
to the category added by every stub template.
Caerwine
Caer’s whines 19:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course, given a bit longer, and I do see various problems with this... I've commented somewhat at Wikipedia talk:Categorization#DEFAULTSORT (though perhaps here is as good or better for the aspects of this that are particular to stub types). Alai 16:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
And I've also mentioned this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#DEFAULTSORT and bio-stubs. Alai 02:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I was browsing some of the stub categories and found Bus Stubs [ [1]] . What I do not understand is why some of these exsist. Their imformational value is limited and also dynamic, as bus routes tend to change. At any given time half of these references might be invalid. I've read the guidlines for stubs but I am still unsure as to whether a one sentence article defining a Bus route and schedule in a rural Austrailian town that may or may not still be active is deserving of an entry in an Encyclopedia. It might belong in an Almanac for the region its relevent to perhaps? Finfyd 08:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)Finfyd
I created "Category:Biochemist stubs" as a sub-category of "Biologist stubs", but it is listed under "μ" on the third page of Biologist stubs instead of under "B" on the first page. Is there something in the syntax that made this happen? Scolaire 15:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
No-one faint, but there's been a db dump this weekend. I'm currently crunching some data relating to uncategorised articles. I'm not sure I'll get any hard data before I flake out, but I very much get the impression that there's a very large number, and doubtless many of them will be very short. (Most of them will be articles created in the last two months, since the last db dump, plus any that have 'lost' categories in that time.) I plan to tag these this {{
uncat}}, but would WSS favour very short uncategorised articles being instead tagged with {{
stubs}}{{
stub}}? (I'd prefer to avoid tagging them with both at once.) If so, where would people favour putting the cutoff? At 250b? 500b? 1K? I should be able to report on the likely scale of this... well, stop press, right about now: over 20916 uncatted articles total; 2408 <= 250b; 5606 <= 500b; 10141 <= 1000b.
Alai 05:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
State of play: 4685 articles in Category:stubs. I should also note that there's currently a bot approval request for doing this on a thrice-daily basis, from special:newpages (as well as "wikify" and "uncategorised"). Alai 13:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
And here's a list of deletion templates for those of us new to the db world... Her Pegship (tis herself) 00:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
On the one hand, the moon-stubs are down from oversized... to undersized (well, semi-good, at least). On the down side, in the process the Moon-crater-stubs are now at 1085. I've asked the people at the Moon wikiproject (see here), and they seem to think that these are "short but essentially complete articles", and it does seem that the bulk of these were tagged (originally as moon-stub) by one person (MER-C, whom you might recall from such incidents as having created a shedload of "planetary" stubs, most of which didn't make much sense at all). The wikiproject, and in particular the original creator of these articles, also didn't seem at all keen on the idea of merging these articles, and nor were they gone on the idea of further sorting. While personally I'm not crazy about "untagged permastubs", I'm not sure whether there's anything much else to be done in this case. Anyone have any bright ideas? Alai 12:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I just expanded Wikipedia:History of Wikipedian processes and people#Stubs. There were a lot of things in pre-stub development I wasn't aware of until I went digging. WSS folk may find it interesting, and have something to add. :) - Banyan Tree 00:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
An article already tells us about its subject, like the one about George W. Bush that says he's from Texas, that he's a US President, that he was in the oil business that he was in the National Guard, etc. But that isn't enough, apparently, because then we have categories to tell us all over again that Bush is A Person From Texas, A Person Who's A President, A Person In The Oil Business, and A Person Who Was In The National Guard. And we litter his article with category-related grids with the names of Every Person From Texas, Every US President, Every Person In The Oil Business, and Every Person Who Has Been In The National Guard, because heaven forbid someone who wants any of those lists should have to expend effort clicking a link reading "president" or "National Guard" in the body of the article to get these lists from the article in which they logically belong. And in case all of that isn't enough, when an article is a stub, we have to say it's a Texan-US-President-National-Guard-Oilman stub because if we just said it's a stub, the reader would have no way whatsoever of knowing what the article is about or what it means for it to be a stub. Good grief. — Largo Plazo 04:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, most of the peoplle involved in stub-sorting actually do a lot of work on expanding articles as well. And creating new articles, too. As for the message on the template, it is aimed at those editors who wouldn't otherwise consider editing the article (a lot of WP readers come here to do just that - read information, not edit). Those that do come here primarily to edit need some way of finding out where there articles are that need editing - hence the sorting of stubs. You can't have it both ways. It's a bit like expecting a sport season to go ahead without coaches, umpires, or physiotherapists, or a movie to be made without electricians and caterers. Someone has to do the behind the scenes work to keep things running smoothly. And, just for the record, most stub sorters do an enormous amount of work on article creation expansion as well, as well as on loads of other features of WP. I know that I've managed to help get four articles to FA standard, including being the primary editor on one front-page article, as well as adding literally hundreds of maps, illustrations and photographs to articles. I doubt I'm alone among stub sorters with doing a lot of work beyond the stub arena. Grutness... wha? 12:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, there. I've decided to go through the tool stubs (I guess I'm sorting...) since I know a fair bit about that stuff. I've gotten up to the "E"s. I'm finding alot that don't meet the description of stubs (and thus removing the tag). Is that normal? Pjbflynn 04:23, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Took me about 7-8 hours, but I think it sings. Did not change a single substantive thing about it either, as far as how it works, what is recommends, what procedures are, etc., etc. It's just a massive cleanup. Please see first wikilink ("The story") for proposal on how to proceed, in stages, designed to prevent the process from descending into argument and editwarring. Goal: Have WSS/NG become a formal Wikipedia Proposal and then Guideline. At a guess this is stage 1 of 4. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 11:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines/Redraft2 I have listed a bunch of unlikely-to-be-controversial improvements for the NG document. Most of these were already clearly identified in Redraft1 as HTML comments, while a few come from Redraft 1 discussion. The HTML comments just mentioned are still (as of this writing) present in Redraft2, to indicate likely insertion points. Depending on when you read this, some of them may have alread been replaced with new text, or removed because controversial. I would propose that any item on the list that anyone feels is controversial in any way should be struck out and saved for Redraft Phase 3, the dealing with controversial stuff. Several of them may require a consensus discussion to determine what exactly they should say/advise. Let's do it! — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 04:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello everybody,
I'm working on a script like TWINKLE's Speedy for Stub storting.
Obviously, I cannot include every stub type, they're too many: I need the most common 30, or the list will be too long.
Can somebody provide me that?
Thanks,
Happy Editing by Snowolf (talk) CON COI on 16:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
As it relates in part to non-consensus scope changes to, and indeed edit-warring on, certain stub types, participants may wish to see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#User:Huaiwei and User:Instantnood. Alai 05:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I've revised Template:stubsort to be more helpful to editors. Please comment on Template talk:stubsort. Thanks! — jmorgan ( talk) 21:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Recently when having my bot run through Category:Living people I was asked if I could do the stubs seperately so they could be auto-assessed as stub class. The difficulty, of course, is that a multitude of different stub templates might be in use, so building a cross-reference list wouldn't be the easiest task.
This led me to thinking how useful to automated processes an additional catch all category for stubs would be, a Category:Living people of stubs if you will. It would of course require an alteration to every stub template. Thoughts?
In the meantime, it looks like Category:Stub categories is catch all with subcategories. Is every stub (templated as such) guaranteed to be in a subcategory of this cat? -- kingboyk 16:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
{{(|.*-)stub}}
in the wikitext? Examining the categories would require looking separately at the html-as-served (though if you did, it'd be equally evident from the form of the category).
Alai 18:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I've only just noticed this bot-approval request, to tag as "uncategorised" all templates not already categorised under category:wikipedia templates. (Implying, evidently, that they should all be so categorised.) Obviously, this would include almost all of the stub templates, as typically these are "only" categorised in the Category:stub categories tree (except for those that have ignore WP:STUB, and 'opted-out' of that, too). This seems like deja vu from the last time there was a flurry of stub-template categorisation, though this basis may be somewhat different. Maybe we should just protect all 3000+ of 'em as HRTs. :/ Is this indeed overcategorisation for little purpose, or am I just being the semi-proverbial Rioting Conservative Tribesperson? Alai 02:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
How are people finding the current cut-off for tagging uncatted articles with {{ stub}}? Anything being tagged that didn't look like a stub? Could the threshold stand to be raised somewhat? (It's currently 500 characters.) From either (or both) of the perspectives of the workload, and of the possibility of false positives... Alai 01:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Since the reservation about this concerned throughput rather than false positives, and since the throughput at the other likely destination is that much worse, I've gone ahead and upped the threshold to 600 bytes on the latest run from Special:Uncategorizedpages. If anyone finds this is starting to get a little too marginal, please let me know. Alai 16:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts... Would this be better expressed in terms of amount of text in the article, excluding wikimarkup? And/or as numbers of words/sentences? Alai 02:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
How about: 100 words or less, after stripping out all markup, including the contents of infoboxes and other tables? Alai 04:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
For those of you who are as hap-hazard in 'watching' project sub-pages as I am, let me draw your attention to /Stub types#Some more proposals to cut the page size. The latterly-suggested ideas would be quite far-reaching (and a real pain to later undo), so prior consensus would be preferable to posterior reversion. Alai 18:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
why not just have a stub category for every normal category? Or just use the stub tag and automatically have the stub-category assigned by the page-category? And if there is no page-category then one could be added if there were a preexisting stub-category. why not have a script do this? Has this been discussed before? -- Tim 18:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Agree with all the above. Indeed, it's such a frequent topic that we should probably have a project page that explains some of the rationale for stub category organisation, in the form of an essay or a "FAQ" (or perhaps even in a guideline sub-page, if we ever get around to refactoring WP:STUB, which I've suggested elsewhere). Alai 02:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Just a consensus-gauging question: Is it better to have the Marlon Manalo article stub-tagged with both {{ Philippines-bio-stub}} and {{ Asia-sport-bio-stub}}, or split up Category:Asian sportspeople stubs into more sub-categories such that we'd have a unified {{ Philippines-sport-bio-stub}} (and others for Vietnam, etc.) but these stub categories would be underpopulated? I guess the question is really: Is it more important for the article to look better or for stub sorting categories to be well-populated? — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 00:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed increasing use of {{ Expand}} as a surrogate stub. There's no need for an article to have both T:Espand and a stub template, and we're probably missing quite a few stubs as a result of its use as a replacement for it.
I'd like to suggest the following proposal (which would have ramifications beyond this page, so I'm double-posting this to Wikipedia talk:Stub and Template talk:Expand).
Note that {{ sectstub}} and {{ listdev}} are not counted as stub templates in general terms, nor are they for the purposes of this proposal.
From the point of view of stub sorting, the only difference this would make would be removing{{ expand}} templates from stubs as they are sorted.
Grutness... wha? 01:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
How does the stub group feel about DEFAULTSORT and if we're embracing it or not? I embraced it whole heartedly for about 2 weeks, and did the whole Category:art historian stubs category by adding default sorts so they'd all be alphabetized by last name, howver I realized it was cutting into my stub sorting time quite a bit, AND also could be hard to maintain. However if I don't do it the sorting inconsistencies will be more noticeable as time goes on. How do others feel? given a choice, or are we stuck with it? Should we embrace it? Is there a way to turn it off or BOT the entire thing? Shall we get a consensus? Goldenrowley 00:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, we did it. We've finally got the uncategorised stubs back under control. We've gone from 200 or so stubs to one in less than a week. I went in today and cleared out the last 18--however, I've gone over User:Miltopia's user page several times and I can't figure out how it got into this category. Chyel 03:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
For everybody's information,
User:Qxz has begun putting "protection" on a large number of stub templates No I haven't. I'm not even an administrator. :) But the pages ARE protected –
Qxz 09:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC), something which seems to be rather over the top to me. Has this been debated at all? I doubt this is a very good idea, and if it is done, it should be done on a very small number of templates, but there is clearly no visible pattern here; {{
Poland-bio-stub}}, {{
Austria-bio-stub}} ????
Valentinian
T /
C 08:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Valentinian T / C 09:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I assume the logic of protection is that of High-risk templates, rather than controversy as such. i.e., how much "damage" some vandalistic -- or just run-of-the-mill confused -- edit would do. (Both in terms of hitting the job queue, and collateral effects on the articles that transclude them.) Recently I came across a couple that had been blanked several weeks ago, and their categories subsequently speedy-deleted as empty... (Rather carelessly on the part of the deleter, I felt, but that's another matter.) I guess no-one was exactly making heavy use of those for expansion purposes. However, as far as I know we've never arrived at any particular formula for which should be protected, and which haven't. We could somewhat arbitrarily atart with those that are now, or have been in the past "over-sized"... (Over 800 transclusions.) Alai 17:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Another one: Template:China-geo-stub is currently semi-protected. Just in case you want to do anything with that – Qxz 12:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia has hundreds, if not thousands, of articles on chemical compounds, generally found in the many subcategories of Category:Chemical compounds by element. Unfortunately, many of these are permanent stubs and low on content, such as those listed here. Wikipedia:Chemical compounds has been created to discuss what to do with all this. Deletion is arguably a waste, but perhaps some articles can be combined into lists for greater comprehensiveness. Please join the discussion on Wikipedia talk:Chemical compounds. >Radiant< 16:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I started a discussion over at the naming guidelines talk page regarding stub categories. ( Countries: adjective or noun?) It's an age-old debate that would be nice if could be settled. Please head over there and join the discussion so we can get more than just the "usual suspects" talking about it. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 16:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
After concerns raised at WP talk:Stub about the complexity of WP:STUB, I have written a rough draft to shorten it. The new draft contains the same information, but is 25% shorter. It also removes some of the information on how to create stub templates - information which is in part responsible for the large number of "discoveries" and is also responsible (due to the misreading by some editors) of the need to trawl the non-existent Category:B stubs for stubs "about A". Please feel free to make any comments, positive or negative on my new draft ( User:Grutness/WP Stub rewrite (draft) at its talk page. (crossposted to WP talk:Stub and Template talk:Stub) Grutness... wha? 00:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Are now being bot-populated into Category:stubs. (No foolin'.) I don't exactly how many there will be by the time the run's finished, as the number of "words" in the article isn't available in the info I have from the db, and is being evaluated "live". (Let's hope my code for doing so isn't too flakey, ha-ha.) It's likely to run to a couple of thousand, though... Alai 01:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
We seem to have prevailed on a bot tagging templates as "uncategorised" if they don't have a category under Category:Wikipedia templates to skip stub templates, on the basis that they're already categorised by topic via their stub categories. However, getting on for two hundred of them aren't in any category at all, as it turns out: see User:Alai/uncatstubtemplate. This is presumably via a mixture of complete omission of a cat, and "creative" stub template coding (the (n)ever-popular "includeonly the category, noinclude a paragraphy of chit-chat", most likely). If people want to help go through these, and fix them up/standardise them, I'd be obliged. Alai 04:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Orkney has got a new flag, so could somebody replace the image on {{ Orkney-stub}} with this one? Valentinian T / C 14:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I seen some players were double catted, some were born outside their native countries and spent his career on both countries, so i keep it in both catted. But should it be only catted in their own country which he played international match (the national team), despite some of them never played for the local clubs, like, Owen Hargreaves. Matthew_hk t c 19:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Just someone cat a player from colony, but just sloely played on Portugal and their national team to double catt. (assume Eusébio). 203.185.57.117 11:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Should every stub appear here, or only those that are a) top-level, or b) have not been more narrowly categorized? I s'pect the latter, since otherwise the category would be so huge as to be useless. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont ‹(-¿-)› 12:15, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
When one is proposing a stub template and/or category, it would help those of us tidyers who list and close and update if the proposed template and/or cat names were listed. I don't want to have to guess at spelling, CamelCase, etc. when I list items for creation or archiving, An added bonus is that if you use the wiki code (i.e. {{tl|housekeeping-stub}}), when that item gets created, the link shows up and I feel confident about archiving the discussion.
Don't make me send the flying monkeys... Her Pegship (tis herself) 06:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)