This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Someone needs to remove the ((cattoolarge)) tag from this category, it is down to 400 articles, from an original 1500... the congrats to all who assisted in sorting these... Eagle ( talk) ( desk) 21:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on expanding an unfortunately unlisted stub, Shade's Children, as I slowly bring together what I hope is a good article. Since I'm rewriting the article and have not yet finished (busy), I've left what I have (haven't posted it in the mainspace because it's quite unfinished) at User:Nihiltres/Sandbox. Since I'm new to the general field of writing and improving articles on novels, I was hoping that someone here could lend me a hand or point me to a help page... -thanks, Nihiltres 03:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
One editor has apparently taken exception to the inclusion of spoiler material in one of the classic novel articles. Great Expectations. While he has done quite a lot of sterling work on content improvement on the article, which I would applaude. I think we should take a view on the approach he has taken on the plot and spoiler material. Please take a look and record here what you think. To declare myself I think that the spoiler notices are quite adequate and that the plot introduction is the section in which to place a non spoiler plot description which would act as a taster for the novel. This is reliant on good placing of {{ spoiler}} and {{ endspoiler}} notices, of course. However I am quite prepared to conceed this veiw is the majority of editors think we should work in this new way, in particuar if we are writing of a novel "major" of notability. Views please! :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 08:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
As the editor who made the spoiler/plot section on Great Expectations, let me make a few points.
First my major justification: I personally believe that spoilers should not be in articles about literature at all. Wikipedia is not Sparq Notes, it is an encyclopedia. As with a book review, an encyclopedia should not be giving readers a synopsis of the book. This cheats the academic reader of the opportunity to form his/her own conclusions about the plot and the theme. There are also people who read literature for pleasure (including students who must also read it as coursework) and shouldn't have the "secrets" of the plot revealed. This is especially true of a writer like Dickens, who introduces many characters who later figure in the plot in surprising and unexpected ways.
Having said that, it is apparent that including spoilers is virtually Wikipedia style, so how do we deal with them? To put them between spoiler notices is almost the worst possible situation. We ask the reader to stop reading and skip over material looking for the ending notice. This is like telling someone: "There is an elephant in the middle of the room. If you don't want to see it, walk around it and don't look at it." Or perhaps more to the point: "There is an unwrapped gift for you on the coffee table. If you don't want to know what it is, don't look that way."
Now it would seem that a major objection to isolating spoilers is that all article material should be in the same place. Why?
As I said at the beginning, I dislike any but the mildest spoilers. I forked GE when I saw the "Characters" section telling you up front Compeyson's key role. That is much too much for general readership. I think a separate "spoilers" section is both appropriate and necessary. If someone clicks through to that section, they know what they are getting into. -- Cheers, Cecropia 14:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that Wikipedia would be fundmentally hurt if we spun off spoilers into their own articles. This could essentially double the number of articles of every single film, television show, or book. Wikipedia is first and foremost an encylopedia, "protecting" readers by breaking off the core of the plots of the story would make most entries have two useless articles, one about the media in question, and one the plot/characters. Frankly, if someonebook/movie/television articles they haven't seen yet, they won't have anything spoiled. If they haven't and they go to the page anwyay, they just have to deal with the problems it causes themselves. Radagast83 19:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Moreover, as I pointed out earlier, Wikipedia is full of subsidiary articles on any number of articles. And what is the downside? That someone who wants to see spoilers will have to click any extra link?
I'll also bring up another point: This doesn't apply to the classics, which are in the public domain, but since you bring up filmed work (and this also applies to in-copyright books and TV) including spoilers at all may involve serious copyvios. We don't have the right to reveal the endings or significant plot turns of any copyrighted work, if there is any chance it might diminish the author's rights to the work by possibly diminishing sales of that work. If the work contains any kind of "secret" in the ending, as almost any suspenseful work does, revealing that secret (e.g., "The Sixth Sense," "The Ring," etc., may scotch a person's interest in buying or viewing the work. 17 USC 107 specifies that in considering whether publishing part of a copyrighted work is "fair use" you must consider "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." [2]. What is the value of including spoilers, and including them in the main body of the article, that we may be cheating both readers and authors. And for what? -- Cecropia 20:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for Peer Review Wikipedia:Peer review/Grendel (novel)/archive1. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 13:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Moved from Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxIncomplete talk page, as deals with more than that page. The first part, though, the "written section" that is referred to is the written section at the beginning and at the top of the InfoboxIncomplete page.
Moved section: Just curious, I suppose, but why was the date arrangement changed for the book infobox used for the novel project (henceforth referred to as Novel infobox) from the book infobox template (henceforth referred to as book infobox) (Moving from August 23, 2005 to 23 August 2005)? And are we supposed to use the Novel infobox or the Book infobox, because the two infoboxes are not the same (more information requested with the Book infobox, and date is in Month Day, Year mode).
On the Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxIncomplete page, in the written section, the documentation leads to the Book infobox documentation [[ Template:Infobox Book]], as opposed to the novel infobox documentation ( Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxCode (though that says book infobox and not novel infobox). And the notes on how to use the box leads to the article template instead of notes.
Looking at the Tools section in the column, Book Infobox leads to the Book infobox template pattern, but at the top of the column, in the information section, Book infobox (pattern) leads to the novel infobox pattern.
Hopefully the above is understandable. I've been slightly confused on which style box to use, and which date pattern to follow. Oh, and I didn't go ahead and change anything on my own, because, I'm not sure what is correct. Or, for that matter, that there actually is any problem as opposed to it being currently correct, and I'm just misreading the pages.
In addition: I believe that an example, like at the Infobox documentation page, would be quite helpful. I have been putting the Hardcover, Paperback and the like wording in initial capitalization, (like in the Master and Commander infobox, which I've been somewhat using as an "example"), but those particular words have been edited to initial lowercase. I don't particular mind what pattern we use, but it would be helpful if there was just the one, and an example were to be placed in the template section. MikeBriggs 14:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
We at the Military history WikiProject have been trying to clean up the strucure of Category:War somewhat (our working draft, if anyone is curious); would there be any problem with moving Category:War novels under Category:War art rather than under Category:War directly? Kirill Lok s h in 00:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxNeeded has a new list of Stuff to Do, if infoboxes are your thing. Thanks to Eagle for compiling it. Her Pegship 23:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm a n00b in this particular project. Despite looking around, the answer to which/how many editions to reference in the infobox hasn't been adequately answered for me yet. My first effort is improving the article on Arrowsmith (novel). Details on the first edition are clearly hard to come by; details on every edition that has appeared since then are just as hard. So, for example, in the Media tag, do I list every medium this book has ever appeared in, or the medium it originally appeared in (hardback)? Other parameters are more manageable because there aren't that many editions of this particular book. Thinking about public domain works, though: do I list multiple sizes, weights, and ISBNs?
And of course you are welcome to comment on Arrowsmith once I actually write a non-crappy replacement. :) Spamguy 06:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I have modified the instructions inside the template area for creating a new article to be more comprehensible, but I could simplify them greatly if the template were simply divided into to three pieces:
This is sure to be one of the most visited articles on novels in wikipedia, but surprisingly it's in a sorry state. Currently a poorly organised collection of random tidbits of information, the article doesn't even contain a plot summary! I think this is an ideal venue to showcase the quality of our project. I'm currently short on time, so some help will be appreciated. Because of the book's special stature, it can't be made to conform to the template article exactly, but it will be a good idea to mix-n-match and give the article a complete overhaul. Thanks. Loom91 17:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
WikiProject Arts
Announcing the creation of
WikiProject Arts, an effort to create a collaboration between all arts projects and artistically-minded Wikipedians in order to improve arts coverage. If you think you can help, please join us!
HAM 18:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
This may have been discussed before, in which case please let me know what transpired...I notice we have a Gothic novel stub category, but none for the broader category of horror novels. I keep running across stubs that could be sorted as horror-novel-stub and longing for such an option. Shall I go to Stub Proposals and propose one? Her Pegship 22:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
the sub page of this project "/infobox_needed" seems to have been superseded by "/NovelsWithoutInfobox"-- if nobody objects I am going to change the link under "work in progress" in the project box. Matt Kurz 21:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
As far as possible, I suggest using a first-edition cover in the write-up, or a fascimile of the opening page. At least it would look more authentic, and certainly more interesting, than any tom-dick-or-harry cover on the front. Mandel 21:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
This might already be covered, but is (Book) or (Novel) the preferred means of disambiguation? I've been looking through the catagories and it looks nearly interchangeable. Does one help our bots over another?-- Muliebris 20:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
What's the best way to incorporate the ISBN into a novel article? In the text, in a "See also" or where? All the novel articles that I looked at didn't actually include this basic piece of information... Stevage 13:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Should ISBNs be included if a book was first published prior to the introduction of ISBNs in 1966? I'm particularly thinking about the Infobox which should usually refer to the first editions. -- Thf1977 11:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
It might be good to link to this WP from the various novel stub categories... Stevage 13:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
My husband and I are convinced that we saw a previous movie about The Da Vinci Code, possibly summer of 2004. We can't find any record of it, but we remember it very clearly. Any ideas out there? 4.247.203.34 13:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I was just wondering if there is any precedent for renaming articles that are under their non-english names. This often comes up with novels that were written in different languages and then re-released in english, and I did not know if we were supposed to leave it or change it or what. -- Gizzakk 20:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed that although we have all these categories for stubs, hardly any of them are actually used and there are nearly 200 novels just categorised as novel-stubs. Consequently I am planning on going through each of these stubs one-by-one, dropping an infobox in and filling it in as far as data on the page allows, and categorising it where possible. If anyone thinks I can actually be doing something more useful along similar rote lines, please let me know! -- JennyRad 11:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Was wondering how to know when to remove the "stub" designation? PeregrineV 22:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Should we generate a list of novels that have little to no representation on Wikipedia?
Mikesan230 15:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
i think someone should make a page with a list of novels that are not represented on wikipedia, for whatever reason. then if it was linked to other novel-related pages people could see the list and add whatever stuff they want about books they've read. it sounds obvious, but i dunno if anyone's done it yet Pxw324 13:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Wanted to start beefing up the characters in the Jane Austen novels and so created a Jane Austen Character template. This is my first one, so wasn't sure how I implement it? plange 04:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Two questions: 1) For translated novels, is it possible that the infobox can in any way be modified to contain a slot for original language publication date, and original language? If this is thought necessary, anyway. (I think it probably is.)
2) Covers: First edition covers... is this rigid? I see it's definitely better than slapping any old cover on an article, but, particularly with things such as ongoing series (see Ian Rankin and the Rebus novels), which often have similarly formatted covers, is it permissable to forgo the first ed. cover? Personally, I think the uniform look of the series of Rebus covers is much more pleasing as it is than if each entry was adorned with the first edition cover? To be frank, some old covers are pretty dire. Can there be exceptions for asesthetic reasons?! (Especially when an image of the first ed. cover can be placed somewhere else in the article?)
3) This also leads me onto the problem of UK v. USA editions... publishers, pages, differ across the oceans...which do we stick in the infobox? Is there some kind of uniform concensus on this (or do we list both? Or do we go for: If the book had US publication first, that's the data we use, and vice versa for UK publication?)
4) I've been filling in quite a few infoboxes lately, and coming across these issues (not to mention the completely insoluble problem of categorising the many subgenres of crime fiction...)... I don't want to make up my own rules as I go along if there's already accepted concensus on this (though if there isn't, I'll be perfectly happy to!) Barbara Osgood 18:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, have created an infobox for characters in Jane Austen novels. Let me know what you think and if I've left anything out and what my next steps should be. The template is Template:JAustenCharacter and I've created a Talk page on that template. Thank you! plange 12:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Question on Infobox's.
On The Amber Spyglass I removed Northern Lights from the infobox Preceded by section just leaving The Subtle Knife, but another editor put it back in noting that it also preceeds The Amber Spyglass.
What's the standard procedure on this? I've already made a comment on the Talk:The Amber Spyglass. Grey Shadow 09:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it worth adding [Category:Young adult novels] to [Category:Novels by genre]? Grey Shadow 12:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
all-your-minimum-wage-job-money-buying-all-60-books-in-the-series-only-to-find- out-that-yes-,-the-cute-girl-DOES-end-up-prom-queen-and-falls-in-love-with-the- studly-football-captain. I'm joking of course, but it is a good question. For some reason calling it a "High School" novel doesnt seem right to me. Perhaps someone should consult a professor of modern literature or some such expert and find out if there actually is a genre for this sort of thing. if we are going to call it a high school novel, it should at least be a subcategory of young adult novel. On that point, If we are going to have a category:coming-of-age novels, where would it fit in; under genre, young adult novels, or what? -- Gizzakk 17:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I broke up your category-name, Gizzakk, 'cos it was breaking the formatting. Hope you don't mind! -- JennyRad 18:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S.-No problem, JennyRad -- Gizzakk 13:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I actually sometimes read books my daughter has, so may do an article on them Would the Library of Congress designation be useful? PeregrineV 22:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I think there ought to be category for foreign editions -- maybe just the languages, or maybe more than 1 line: one for languages, another for titles. unless someone like John Irving who's translated into 50 languages makes this too unwieldy. Just a suggestion to mull over. Hayford Peirce 01:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay...I want to post my comments on a book...is there an appropriate place (in the article in a separate header, perhaps?) to post comments? If not, can we start doing that? Bob 20:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional universes. I know the article is a little ungainly, but surely it has its place here. ♥ Her Pegship♥ 21:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
For anyone who is interested, over the last week or so I've created individual articles (with infoboxes, of course) on the complete Simon Templar (aka The Saint) and Modesty Blaise series of books (yeah I don't really have a life...). Given the wide fanbase for the two characters, I feel the books are of wide enough interest to warrant individual articles. Most of the articles are, at the moment, rather stubby since I don't know enough about the books to type of synopses and all that (though I have read the complete Modesty Blaise series I need to re-read them again; and I only recently started reading The Saint series in order). All are tagged as being part of the Wikiproject, so anyone who is familiar with these two series of books, I invite to come over and add your knowledge. Both character links, above, include lists of the series. In the case of Simon Templar, a number of books (particularly later ones) are also missing cover images. 23skidoo 02:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I've come across Category:1990 mystery novels. Are we going to do more of these subcategories, or should it be merged into 1990 novels? There is only one novel in it at present. Grey Shadow 09:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there a standard size for cover images, or at least a preferred size? PeregrineV 22:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
What is allowed? I've made them both 200px as per the infobox norm. Grey Shadow 06:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I see this is the first time that I've come on to the forum. I've been really busy lately. Anyway, there is a novel article that I think should come under project attention. The End of the Affair by Graham Greene. I think the article should be about the novel, and go into detail. There should be links for the film versions. Contact me at my user page for further questions and advice. Au Revoir Afghan Historian 04:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
(Please let me know if this is a /GeneralForum topic). I understand that their are 2 lists for novels needing infoboxes, one autogenerated and one manually generated. However, it seems the autogenerated list is only for Mystery novels. Was wondering why this is, can it be changed, and if so, how? If I understand this correctly,
Mostly trying for understanding here, as I do a lot of clicking in confusion until I find what I think is the right list. Thanks
PeregrineV 03:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
There's been some discussion over what goes here, what the definition is, etc. etc. and no consensus. I move we merge its contents back into Category:Series of books; defining the order in which a series of books should be read is more workable in a list format anyway, not a category. Please comment on the talk page or at Cfm. ♥ Her Pegship♥ 18:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I have revised the proposal as Category:Novel sequences to Category:Novel series on the Cfr. Cheers, ♥ Her Pegship♥ 16:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
How should omnibus books be handled? They are generally a bundling of multiple novels under one cover. I would think that each novel could receive it's own entry, and that a (book) entry would contain a summary and link to the (novel) entries. Any policies or existing ideas for how to handle these? For example, I have one entitled The Chronicles of Narnia, but each book is actually it's own novel. Thanks PeregrineV 03:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Was wondering on the appropriateness of including jacket or cover blurbs to the books, if possible. PeregrineV 04:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have been working on these novel articles to add infoboxes with various details and notice that most if not all make use of very POV text and are not very wiki in english style. If there is any one of us that is familiar with these novels or is otherwise in a position to help please have a look at a rework. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 15:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Supposing one has a pet favourite author who was moderately successful in her day but has largely been forgotten (in my case, D. E. Stevenson) ... the page about her is currently entirely stubbish. I have recently been using Ebay to great purpose and acquiring stacks of her books. For the time being, I'm not going to write great screeds about any of them, just get things started - would I be best off, in people's opinion, writing the stuff as sections of her page, or creating actual stub pages for each book straight off? -- JennyRad 19:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Tag added to give a home for the WP:1.0 co-operation mentioned. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 15:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm a little confused about the assessment process. Does the discussion at the talk pages mean that I can tag articles stub, start, or B-class without waiting for the assessment process, and should I? If not, should I use some other tag to identify stubs? Thanks, TheronJ 15:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Someone needs to remove the ((cattoolarge)) tag from this category, it is down to 400 articles, from an original 1500... the congrats to all who assisted in sorting these... Eagle ( talk) ( desk) 21:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on expanding an unfortunately unlisted stub, Shade's Children, as I slowly bring together what I hope is a good article. Since I'm rewriting the article and have not yet finished (busy), I've left what I have (haven't posted it in the mainspace because it's quite unfinished) at User:Nihiltres/Sandbox. Since I'm new to the general field of writing and improving articles on novels, I was hoping that someone here could lend me a hand or point me to a help page... -thanks, Nihiltres 03:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
One editor has apparently taken exception to the inclusion of spoiler material in one of the classic novel articles. Great Expectations. While he has done quite a lot of sterling work on content improvement on the article, which I would applaude. I think we should take a view on the approach he has taken on the plot and spoiler material. Please take a look and record here what you think. To declare myself I think that the spoiler notices are quite adequate and that the plot introduction is the section in which to place a non spoiler plot description which would act as a taster for the novel. This is reliant on good placing of {{ spoiler}} and {{ endspoiler}} notices, of course. However I am quite prepared to conceed this veiw is the majority of editors think we should work in this new way, in particuar if we are writing of a novel "major" of notability. Views please! :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 08:05, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
As the editor who made the spoiler/plot section on Great Expectations, let me make a few points.
First my major justification: I personally believe that spoilers should not be in articles about literature at all. Wikipedia is not Sparq Notes, it is an encyclopedia. As with a book review, an encyclopedia should not be giving readers a synopsis of the book. This cheats the academic reader of the opportunity to form his/her own conclusions about the plot and the theme. There are also people who read literature for pleasure (including students who must also read it as coursework) and shouldn't have the "secrets" of the plot revealed. This is especially true of a writer like Dickens, who introduces many characters who later figure in the plot in surprising and unexpected ways.
Having said that, it is apparent that including spoilers is virtually Wikipedia style, so how do we deal with them? To put them between spoiler notices is almost the worst possible situation. We ask the reader to stop reading and skip over material looking for the ending notice. This is like telling someone: "There is an elephant in the middle of the room. If you don't want to see it, walk around it and don't look at it." Or perhaps more to the point: "There is an unwrapped gift for you on the coffee table. If you don't want to know what it is, don't look that way."
Now it would seem that a major objection to isolating spoilers is that all article material should be in the same place. Why?
As I said at the beginning, I dislike any but the mildest spoilers. I forked GE when I saw the "Characters" section telling you up front Compeyson's key role. That is much too much for general readership. I think a separate "spoilers" section is both appropriate and necessary. If someone clicks through to that section, they know what they are getting into. -- Cheers, Cecropia 14:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that Wikipedia would be fundmentally hurt if we spun off spoilers into their own articles. This could essentially double the number of articles of every single film, television show, or book. Wikipedia is first and foremost an encylopedia, "protecting" readers by breaking off the core of the plots of the story would make most entries have two useless articles, one about the media in question, and one the plot/characters. Frankly, if someonebook/movie/television articles they haven't seen yet, they won't have anything spoiled. If they haven't and they go to the page anwyay, they just have to deal with the problems it causes themselves. Radagast83 19:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Moreover, as I pointed out earlier, Wikipedia is full of subsidiary articles on any number of articles. And what is the downside? That someone who wants to see spoilers will have to click any extra link?
I'll also bring up another point: This doesn't apply to the classics, which are in the public domain, but since you bring up filmed work (and this also applies to in-copyright books and TV) including spoilers at all may involve serious copyvios. We don't have the right to reveal the endings or significant plot turns of any copyrighted work, if there is any chance it might diminish the author's rights to the work by possibly diminishing sales of that work. If the work contains any kind of "secret" in the ending, as almost any suspenseful work does, revealing that secret (e.g., "The Sixth Sense," "The Ring," etc., may scotch a person's interest in buying or viewing the work. 17 USC 107 specifies that in considering whether publishing part of a copyrighted work is "fair use" you must consider "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." [2]. What is the value of including spoilers, and including them in the main body of the article, that we may be cheating both readers and authors. And for what? -- Cecropia 20:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated this article for Peer Review Wikipedia:Peer review/Grendel (novel)/archive1. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 13:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Moved from Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxIncomplete talk page, as deals with more than that page. The first part, though, the "written section" that is referred to is the written section at the beginning and at the top of the InfoboxIncomplete page.
Moved section: Just curious, I suppose, but why was the date arrangement changed for the book infobox used for the novel project (henceforth referred to as Novel infobox) from the book infobox template (henceforth referred to as book infobox) (Moving from August 23, 2005 to 23 August 2005)? And are we supposed to use the Novel infobox or the Book infobox, because the two infoboxes are not the same (more information requested with the Book infobox, and date is in Month Day, Year mode).
On the Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxIncomplete page, in the written section, the documentation leads to the Book infobox documentation [[ Template:Infobox Book]], as opposed to the novel infobox documentation ( Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxCode (though that says book infobox and not novel infobox). And the notes on how to use the box leads to the article template instead of notes.
Looking at the Tools section in the column, Book Infobox leads to the Book infobox template pattern, but at the top of the column, in the information section, Book infobox (pattern) leads to the novel infobox pattern.
Hopefully the above is understandable. I've been slightly confused on which style box to use, and which date pattern to follow. Oh, and I didn't go ahead and change anything on my own, because, I'm not sure what is correct. Or, for that matter, that there actually is any problem as opposed to it being currently correct, and I'm just misreading the pages.
In addition: I believe that an example, like at the Infobox documentation page, would be quite helpful. I have been putting the Hardcover, Paperback and the like wording in initial capitalization, (like in the Master and Commander infobox, which I've been somewhat using as an "example"), but those particular words have been edited to initial lowercase. I don't particular mind what pattern we use, but it would be helpful if there was just the one, and an example were to be placed in the template section. MikeBriggs 14:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
We at the Military history WikiProject have been trying to clean up the strucure of Category:War somewhat (our working draft, if anyone is curious); would there be any problem with moving Category:War novels under Category:War art rather than under Category:War directly? Kirill Lok s h in 00:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/InfoboxNeeded has a new list of Stuff to Do, if infoboxes are your thing. Thanks to Eagle for compiling it. Her Pegship 23:18, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm a n00b in this particular project. Despite looking around, the answer to which/how many editions to reference in the infobox hasn't been adequately answered for me yet. My first effort is improving the article on Arrowsmith (novel). Details on the first edition are clearly hard to come by; details on every edition that has appeared since then are just as hard. So, for example, in the Media tag, do I list every medium this book has ever appeared in, or the medium it originally appeared in (hardback)? Other parameters are more manageable because there aren't that many editions of this particular book. Thinking about public domain works, though: do I list multiple sizes, weights, and ISBNs?
And of course you are welcome to comment on Arrowsmith once I actually write a non-crappy replacement. :) Spamguy 06:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I have modified the instructions inside the template area for creating a new article to be more comprehensible, but I could simplify them greatly if the template were simply divided into to three pieces:
This is sure to be one of the most visited articles on novels in wikipedia, but surprisingly it's in a sorry state. Currently a poorly organised collection of random tidbits of information, the article doesn't even contain a plot summary! I think this is an ideal venue to showcase the quality of our project. I'm currently short on time, so some help will be appreciated. Because of the book's special stature, it can't be made to conform to the template article exactly, but it will be a good idea to mix-n-match and give the article a complete overhaul. Thanks. Loom91 17:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
WikiProject Arts
Announcing the creation of
WikiProject Arts, an effort to create a collaboration between all arts projects and artistically-minded Wikipedians in order to improve arts coverage. If you think you can help, please join us!
HAM 18:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
This may have been discussed before, in which case please let me know what transpired...I notice we have a Gothic novel stub category, but none for the broader category of horror novels. I keep running across stubs that could be sorted as horror-novel-stub and longing for such an option. Shall I go to Stub Proposals and propose one? Her Pegship 22:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
the sub page of this project "/infobox_needed" seems to have been superseded by "/NovelsWithoutInfobox"-- if nobody objects I am going to change the link under "work in progress" in the project box. Matt Kurz 21:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
As far as possible, I suggest using a first-edition cover in the write-up, or a fascimile of the opening page. At least it would look more authentic, and certainly more interesting, than any tom-dick-or-harry cover on the front. Mandel 21:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
This might already be covered, but is (Book) or (Novel) the preferred means of disambiguation? I've been looking through the catagories and it looks nearly interchangeable. Does one help our bots over another?-- Muliebris 20:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
What's the best way to incorporate the ISBN into a novel article? In the text, in a "See also" or where? All the novel articles that I looked at didn't actually include this basic piece of information... Stevage 13:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Should ISBNs be included if a book was first published prior to the introduction of ISBNs in 1966? I'm particularly thinking about the Infobox which should usually refer to the first editions. -- Thf1977 11:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
It might be good to link to this WP from the various novel stub categories... Stevage 13:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
My husband and I are convinced that we saw a previous movie about The Da Vinci Code, possibly summer of 2004. We can't find any record of it, but we remember it very clearly. Any ideas out there? 4.247.203.34 13:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I was just wondering if there is any precedent for renaming articles that are under their non-english names. This often comes up with novels that were written in different languages and then re-released in english, and I did not know if we were supposed to leave it or change it or what. -- Gizzakk 20:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed that although we have all these categories for stubs, hardly any of them are actually used and there are nearly 200 novels just categorised as novel-stubs. Consequently I am planning on going through each of these stubs one-by-one, dropping an infobox in and filling it in as far as data on the page allows, and categorising it where possible. If anyone thinks I can actually be doing something more useful along similar rote lines, please let me know! -- JennyRad 11:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Was wondering how to know when to remove the "stub" designation? PeregrineV 22:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Should we generate a list of novels that have little to no representation on Wikipedia?
Mikesan230 15:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
i think someone should make a page with a list of novels that are not represented on wikipedia, for whatever reason. then if it was linked to other novel-related pages people could see the list and add whatever stuff they want about books they've read. it sounds obvious, but i dunno if anyone's done it yet Pxw324 13:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Wanted to start beefing up the characters in the Jane Austen novels and so created a Jane Austen Character template. This is my first one, so wasn't sure how I implement it? plange 04:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Two questions: 1) For translated novels, is it possible that the infobox can in any way be modified to contain a slot for original language publication date, and original language? If this is thought necessary, anyway. (I think it probably is.)
2) Covers: First edition covers... is this rigid? I see it's definitely better than slapping any old cover on an article, but, particularly with things such as ongoing series (see Ian Rankin and the Rebus novels), which often have similarly formatted covers, is it permissable to forgo the first ed. cover? Personally, I think the uniform look of the series of Rebus covers is much more pleasing as it is than if each entry was adorned with the first edition cover? To be frank, some old covers are pretty dire. Can there be exceptions for asesthetic reasons?! (Especially when an image of the first ed. cover can be placed somewhere else in the article?)
3) This also leads me onto the problem of UK v. USA editions... publishers, pages, differ across the oceans...which do we stick in the infobox? Is there some kind of uniform concensus on this (or do we list both? Or do we go for: If the book had US publication first, that's the data we use, and vice versa for UK publication?)
4) I've been filling in quite a few infoboxes lately, and coming across these issues (not to mention the completely insoluble problem of categorising the many subgenres of crime fiction...)... I don't want to make up my own rules as I go along if there's already accepted concensus on this (though if there isn't, I'll be perfectly happy to!) Barbara Osgood 18:46, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, have created an infobox for characters in Jane Austen novels. Let me know what you think and if I've left anything out and what my next steps should be. The template is Template:JAustenCharacter and I've created a Talk page on that template. Thank you! plange 12:53, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Question on Infobox's.
On The Amber Spyglass I removed Northern Lights from the infobox Preceded by section just leaving The Subtle Knife, but another editor put it back in noting that it also preceeds The Amber Spyglass.
What's the standard procedure on this? I've already made a comment on the Talk:The Amber Spyglass. Grey Shadow 09:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it worth adding [Category:Young adult novels] to [Category:Novels by genre]? Grey Shadow 12:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
all-your-minimum-wage-job-money-buying-all-60-books-in-the-series-only-to-find- out-that-yes-,-the-cute-girl-DOES-end-up-prom-queen-and-falls-in-love-with-the- studly-football-captain. I'm joking of course, but it is a good question. For some reason calling it a "High School" novel doesnt seem right to me. Perhaps someone should consult a professor of modern literature or some such expert and find out if there actually is a genre for this sort of thing. if we are going to call it a high school novel, it should at least be a subcategory of young adult novel. On that point, If we are going to have a category:coming-of-age novels, where would it fit in; under genre, young adult novels, or what? -- Gizzakk 17:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I broke up your category-name, Gizzakk, 'cos it was breaking the formatting. Hope you don't mind! -- JennyRad 18:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S.-No problem, JennyRad -- Gizzakk 13:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I actually sometimes read books my daughter has, so may do an article on them Would the Library of Congress designation be useful? PeregrineV 22:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I think there ought to be category for foreign editions -- maybe just the languages, or maybe more than 1 line: one for languages, another for titles. unless someone like John Irving who's translated into 50 languages makes this too unwieldy. Just a suggestion to mull over. Hayford Peirce 01:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay...I want to post my comments on a book...is there an appropriate place (in the article in a separate header, perhaps?) to post comments? If not, can we start doing that? Bob 20:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fictional universes. I know the article is a little ungainly, but surely it has its place here. ♥ Her Pegship♥ 21:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
For anyone who is interested, over the last week or so I've created individual articles (with infoboxes, of course) on the complete Simon Templar (aka The Saint) and Modesty Blaise series of books (yeah I don't really have a life...). Given the wide fanbase for the two characters, I feel the books are of wide enough interest to warrant individual articles. Most of the articles are, at the moment, rather stubby since I don't know enough about the books to type of synopses and all that (though I have read the complete Modesty Blaise series I need to re-read them again; and I only recently started reading The Saint series in order). All are tagged as being part of the Wikiproject, so anyone who is familiar with these two series of books, I invite to come over and add your knowledge. Both character links, above, include lists of the series. In the case of Simon Templar, a number of books (particularly later ones) are also missing cover images. 23skidoo 02:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I've come across Category:1990 mystery novels. Are we going to do more of these subcategories, or should it be merged into 1990 novels? There is only one novel in it at present. Grey Shadow 09:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there a standard size for cover images, or at least a preferred size? PeregrineV 22:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
What is allowed? I've made them both 200px as per the infobox norm. Grey Shadow 06:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I see this is the first time that I've come on to the forum. I've been really busy lately. Anyway, there is a novel article that I think should come under project attention. The End of the Affair by Graham Greene. I think the article should be about the novel, and go into detail. There should be links for the film versions. Contact me at my user page for further questions and advice. Au Revoir Afghan Historian 04:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
(Please let me know if this is a /GeneralForum topic). I understand that their are 2 lists for novels needing infoboxes, one autogenerated and one manually generated. However, it seems the autogenerated list is only for Mystery novels. Was wondering why this is, can it be changed, and if so, how? If I understand this correctly,
Mostly trying for understanding here, as I do a lot of clicking in confusion until I find what I think is the right list. Thanks
PeregrineV 03:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
There's been some discussion over what goes here, what the definition is, etc. etc. and no consensus. I move we merge its contents back into Category:Series of books; defining the order in which a series of books should be read is more workable in a list format anyway, not a category. Please comment on the talk page or at Cfm. ♥ Her Pegship♥ 18:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I have revised the proposal as Category:Novel sequences to Category:Novel series on the Cfr. Cheers, ♥ Her Pegship♥ 16:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
How should omnibus books be handled? They are generally a bundling of multiple novels under one cover. I would think that each novel could receive it's own entry, and that a (book) entry would contain a summary and link to the (novel) entries. Any policies or existing ideas for how to handle these? For example, I have one entitled The Chronicles of Narnia, but each book is actually it's own novel. Thanks PeregrineV 03:34, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Was wondering on the appropriateness of including jacket or cover blurbs to the books, if possible. PeregrineV 04:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I have been working on these novel articles to add infoboxes with various details and notice that most if not all make use of very POV text and are not very wiki in english style. If there is any one of us that is familiar with these novels or is otherwise in a position to help please have a look at a rework. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 15:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Supposing one has a pet favourite author who was moderately successful in her day but has largely been forgotten (in my case, D. E. Stevenson) ... the page about her is currently entirely stubbish. I have recently been using Ebay to great purpose and acquiring stacks of her books. For the time being, I'm not going to write great screeds about any of them, just get things started - would I be best off, in people's opinion, writing the stuff as sections of her page, or creating actual stub pages for each book straight off? -- JennyRad 19:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Tag added to give a home for the WP:1.0 co-operation mentioned. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 15:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm a little confused about the assessment process. Does the discussion at the talk pages mean that I can tag articles stub, start, or B-class without waiting for the assessment process, and should I? If not, should I use some other tag to identify stubs? Thanks, TheronJ 15:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)