This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 |
the notability of the article has come up before, below is what i done back then.
A tag has been placed on
Culbann C.P.C, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the
criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please
see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{
hangon}}
on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on
the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. -- Finngall talk 21:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
It has come up again but has been highlighted for deletion, please help me make it more notable and save it, give me ideas on how to do so. also get into the discussion on the speedy deletion page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Culbann_C.P.C -- Weeman com ( talk) 00:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of certain fiction articles as a result of a proposed notability guideline directed specifically toward fiction. If you feel inclined, please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Thanks, Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 00:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
The lead section of the project page seems to be confused about whether you are rescuing topics or content. I'm all for preserving valuble content if there is some, but if an article consists entirely of unusable content, as post literacy did, even if you show up and write a whole new article, you haven't really "rescued" anything. Nerfari ( talk) 21:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a suitable subject for rescue, as a lack of sources (and not an inherent lack of notability) threatens its deletion. PS: I've already commented, please don't add more !votes to it until these sources have been found. If we can't find any, WP:V means it'll have to go, however notable (or interesting) it may seem. yandman 12:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Please help me save Dan Miller (sportscaster) from afd. I really care about this article because I listen to him every week at Lions games. So far its 4 keeps to only 1 delete. Thanks TomCat4680 ( talk) 01:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Collapsed as non-ARS issues being addressed better elsewhere |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This article isn't up for afd but I'm not allowed to edit it (long story). But can someone please add information about original programs on Fuel TV using this neutral third party source? Malakye.com FUEL TV revealed. Thanks. P.S. don't tell them I sent you or I'll be accused of "canvassing" again. TomCat4680 ( talk) 04:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
This would mean that you would be using meatpuppets to evade your topic ban, or whatever is preventing you from editing Fuel TV. I suggest you not do this. pablo hablo. 09:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
←Let me be clear:
|
After a couple of months of compiling data, I finally finished the first section of my research: User:Ikip/AfD on average day, thanks to a dozen admins who gave me a copy of the deleted material. I found what many article squadron members already know, that our current deletion policy overwhelmingly effect new users:
Any ideas how I can figure out if there is a definite link in the drop in editing since October 2007 to the treatment of new users?
Further research includes:
I was thinking about this. Some random thoughts:
Just some thinking. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 21:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Furthermore: Remember how old Wikipedia:List of bad article ideas is. Even four years ago, people writing about themselves, their bands, their pets, and whatnot, was endemic. That's not a new trend at all. There probably only seems to be more of it than there was 8 years ago simply because there are a lot more people editing Wikipedia than there were 8 years ago.
Let me suggest some food for thought:
The problem may well be nothing at all to do with a lack of new subjects yet to cover, and rather to do with something else entirely that has been a noticeable trend of late: the rather odd and un-Wikipedia-like notion that redlinks are bad, and that the encyclopaedia is somehow now complete. This is particularly noticable at disambiguation articles, where editors regularly purge them of dangling hyperlinks, under the guise of enforcing style guidelines. We used to treat redlinks at invitations to write. Disambiguation articles, especially disambiguations for initialisms and acronyms, used to be one place where one could find missing topics readily, with many redlinks being placeholders. No longer is this the case. We've already reached the point where editors regard disambiguation articles that have all redlinks as targets for deletion, rather than as invitations to create the missing articles listed. They reach for their deletion nomination templates instead of for "create this article". Witness Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/GADS. Most importantly, witness what happened, after the AFD discussion, to the remaining missing articles that were not created during the discussion. That happens all of the time. Some people even appear to have cooked up scripts for doing it.
Also notice that on a regular basis there are bursts of nominations of disambiguation articles for Proposed Deletion because "hatnotes on 2 pages suffice". Sometimes they have only two entries in the first place because the other entries, suggesting missing articles that people could create, have been removed.
If you want a more readily apparent reason for readers (erroneously) thinking that there's nothing new left to create, look to the fact that we now actively hide the redlinks from readers in hundreds of thousands of articles. I used to find ideas for missing articles to create in disambiguations. Did you?
This effort, to actively purge redlinks from a whole class of pages, that are (by their very nature) some of the most commonly navigated ones in the encyclopaedia, all in the name of "style", is perhaps where you should best lay the blame for not seeing as many redlinks as you used to see years back, Llywrch.
As I said: food for thought. Uncle G ( talk) 02:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
That's the point, though. Your personal experience is like mine: There are redlinks and stubs aplenty still to be had. And that's not unexpected, in truth. No reasonable person would expect us to have achieved complete coverage of every existing subject in this time. Our experience bears out what the survey says: There's as much scope for expansion now as there was before. And although there is, quite obviously, systemic bias (including egregious FUTON bias), the point is also that that isn't necessarily a causative factor at all in the creation of the bad articles on the bad article ideas list.
There have always been people coming here for the wrong reasons — to self-publicize, to hoax, to advertise, to document the undocumented, to add new things that they just made up, or simply to use a free WWW site that costs them nothing as their personal scribbling board (like children with a packet of crayons and a blank wall). The Wikipedia of 2003 (or even earlier) had that problem. It simply wasn't as popular as the Wikipedia of 2009. That popularity alone increases the flow of bad articles. Do we even need to look for another cause?
Also bear in mind the phenemonon that, for want of a better name, I christen Deletion Patrol bias. If one patrols AFD or Proposed Deletion, one tends to see more of the articles that are down in the dark and dank depths of Wikipedia. (Part of the art of article rescue is giving such articles a good solid shove upwards, in the direction of the lofty heights of Featured Articles. Most times this shove doesn't push the article up beyond the stratum of "good stub".) From that one tends to overgeneralize. But a spot of New Pages Patrol often serves to remind that there are numerous good editors out there whose articles never even come near deletion discussions, in part because they are created the right way. (There's also a New Pages Patrol bias, mentioned above by A Man In Black.) One just needs to do New Pages Patrol with an eye to how many articles one is skipping over, because they cite good sources and have no immediate cleanup issues. The articles that come up for deletion are not representative of Wikipedia as a whole.
As to the whole "We're scaring off new users!" issue, my personal experience is that that's rubbish. My very first new article (created long before I had an account) was nominated for deletion. It didn't scare me off. I'm — indeed — now an administrator with a long history of article rescues. ☺ We're certainly pushing against the flow of bad articles on the bad ideas list, and discouraging the people who have the bad ideas. But that's also something that is the same as the Wikipedia of years ago. We've always had a clear idea of the project goal, and discouraging the bad has been as much a part of Wikipedia acculturation as encouraging the good. The people that Wikipedia needs are the people who learn from the rejection of the bad ideas, and start having good ideas instead. Uncle G ( talk) 11:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Uncle G offhandedly brings up a good point about new users and turning the corner. At some point, there are going to be good-faith users who just haven't gotten it yet. You can argue what the proportions are, but some of those article written by new users are going to be completely useless conceptually ("John Smith and the Garage Rockers", "my cat Fluffikins", etc.), instead of simply badly-written articles with potential. Most of our "Your first article was deleted, don't give up!" advice pertains to salvaging an article that was savable. How can we better salvage users? How can we better guide a user who has an essentially wrong idea of what Wikipedia is for - but is still trying to help in good faith - become a productive user? I think there's a real lack of "That wasn't what we want, but you can still help!" and more of an attitude of "If you're writing articles about your cat, get lost." I'd rather see, "We don't need an article about your cat, but how about your cat's breed or the history of cats or the animal control situation in the city where you live?" but I'm not sure how to go about that.- A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 21:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 |
the notability of the article has come up before, below is what i done back then.
A tag has been placed on
Culbann C.P.C, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the
criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please
see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{
hangon}}
on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on
the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. -- Finngall talk 21:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
It has come up again but has been highlighted for deletion, please help me make it more notable and save it, give me ideas on how to do so. also get into the discussion on the speedy deletion page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Culbann_C.P.C -- Weeman com ( talk) 00:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of certain fiction articles as a result of a proposed notability guideline directed specifically toward fiction. If you feel inclined, please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Thanks, Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 00:15, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
The lead section of the project page seems to be confused about whether you are rescuing topics or content. I'm all for preserving valuble content if there is some, but if an article consists entirely of unusable content, as post literacy did, even if you show up and write a whole new article, you haven't really "rescued" anything. Nerfari ( talk) 21:34, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a suitable subject for rescue, as a lack of sources (and not an inherent lack of notability) threatens its deletion. PS: I've already commented, please don't add more !votes to it until these sources have been found. If we can't find any, WP:V means it'll have to go, however notable (or interesting) it may seem. yandman 12:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Please help me save Dan Miller (sportscaster) from afd. I really care about this article because I listen to him every week at Lions games. So far its 4 keeps to only 1 delete. Thanks TomCat4680 ( talk) 01:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Collapsed as non-ARS issues being addressed better elsewhere |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This article isn't up for afd but I'm not allowed to edit it (long story). But can someone please add information about original programs on Fuel TV using this neutral third party source? Malakye.com FUEL TV revealed. Thanks. P.S. don't tell them I sent you or I'll be accused of "canvassing" again. TomCat4680 ( talk) 04:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
This would mean that you would be using meatpuppets to evade your topic ban, or whatever is preventing you from editing Fuel TV. I suggest you not do this. pablo hablo. 09:51, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
←Let me be clear:
|
After a couple of months of compiling data, I finally finished the first section of my research: User:Ikip/AfD on average day, thanks to a dozen admins who gave me a copy of the deleted material. I found what many article squadron members already know, that our current deletion policy overwhelmingly effect new users:
Any ideas how I can figure out if there is a definite link in the drop in editing since October 2007 to the treatment of new users?
Further research includes:
I was thinking about this. Some random thoughts:
Just some thinking. - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 21:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
Furthermore: Remember how old Wikipedia:List of bad article ideas is. Even four years ago, people writing about themselves, their bands, their pets, and whatnot, was endemic. That's not a new trend at all. There probably only seems to be more of it than there was 8 years ago simply because there are a lot more people editing Wikipedia than there were 8 years ago.
Let me suggest some food for thought:
The problem may well be nothing at all to do with a lack of new subjects yet to cover, and rather to do with something else entirely that has been a noticeable trend of late: the rather odd and un-Wikipedia-like notion that redlinks are bad, and that the encyclopaedia is somehow now complete. This is particularly noticable at disambiguation articles, where editors regularly purge them of dangling hyperlinks, under the guise of enforcing style guidelines. We used to treat redlinks at invitations to write. Disambiguation articles, especially disambiguations for initialisms and acronyms, used to be one place where one could find missing topics readily, with many redlinks being placeholders. No longer is this the case. We've already reached the point where editors regard disambiguation articles that have all redlinks as targets for deletion, rather than as invitations to create the missing articles listed. They reach for their deletion nomination templates instead of for "create this article". Witness Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/GADS. Most importantly, witness what happened, after the AFD discussion, to the remaining missing articles that were not created during the discussion. That happens all of the time. Some people even appear to have cooked up scripts for doing it.
Also notice that on a regular basis there are bursts of nominations of disambiguation articles for Proposed Deletion because "hatnotes on 2 pages suffice". Sometimes they have only two entries in the first place because the other entries, suggesting missing articles that people could create, have been removed.
If you want a more readily apparent reason for readers (erroneously) thinking that there's nothing new left to create, look to the fact that we now actively hide the redlinks from readers in hundreds of thousands of articles. I used to find ideas for missing articles to create in disambiguations. Did you?
This effort, to actively purge redlinks from a whole class of pages, that are (by their very nature) some of the most commonly navigated ones in the encyclopaedia, all in the name of "style", is perhaps where you should best lay the blame for not seeing as many redlinks as you used to see years back, Llywrch.
As I said: food for thought. Uncle G ( talk) 02:46, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
That's the point, though. Your personal experience is like mine: There are redlinks and stubs aplenty still to be had. And that's not unexpected, in truth. No reasonable person would expect us to have achieved complete coverage of every existing subject in this time. Our experience bears out what the survey says: There's as much scope for expansion now as there was before. And although there is, quite obviously, systemic bias (including egregious FUTON bias), the point is also that that isn't necessarily a causative factor at all in the creation of the bad articles on the bad article ideas list.
There have always been people coming here for the wrong reasons — to self-publicize, to hoax, to advertise, to document the undocumented, to add new things that they just made up, or simply to use a free WWW site that costs them nothing as their personal scribbling board (like children with a packet of crayons and a blank wall). The Wikipedia of 2003 (or even earlier) had that problem. It simply wasn't as popular as the Wikipedia of 2009. That popularity alone increases the flow of bad articles. Do we even need to look for another cause?
Also bear in mind the phenemonon that, for want of a better name, I christen Deletion Patrol bias. If one patrols AFD or Proposed Deletion, one tends to see more of the articles that are down in the dark and dank depths of Wikipedia. (Part of the art of article rescue is giving such articles a good solid shove upwards, in the direction of the lofty heights of Featured Articles. Most times this shove doesn't push the article up beyond the stratum of "good stub".) From that one tends to overgeneralize. But a spot of New Pages Patrol often serves to remind that there are numerous good editors out there whose articles never even come near deletion discussions, in part because they are created the right way. (There's also a New Pages Patrol bias, mentioned above by A Man In Black.) One just needs to do New Pages Patrol with an eye to how many articles one is skipping over, because they cite good sources and have no immediate cleanup issues. The articles that come up for deletion are not representative of Wikipedia as a whole.
As to the whole "We're scaring off new users!" issue, my personal experience is that that's rubbish. My very first new article (created long before I had an account) was nominated for deletion. It didn't scare me off. I'm — indeed — now an administrator with a long history of article rescues. ☺ We're certainly pushing against the flow of bad articles on the bad ideas list, and discouraging the people who have the bad ideas. But that's also something that is the same as the Wikipedia of years ago. We've always had a clear idea of the project goal, and discouraging the bad has been as much a part of Wikipedia acculturation as encouraging the good. The people that Wikipedia needs are the people who learn from the rejection of the bad ideas, and start having good ideas instead. Uncle G ( talk) 11:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Uncle G offhandedly brings up a good point about new users and turning the corner. At some point, there are going to be good-faith users who just haven't gotten it yet. You can argue what the proportions are, but some of those article written by new users are going to be completely useless conceptually ("John Smith and the Garage Rockers", "my cat Fluffikins", etc.), instead of simply badly-written articles with potential. Most of our "Your first article was deleted, don't give up!" advice pertains to salvaging an article that was savable. How can we better salvage users? How can we better guide a user who has an essentially wrong idea of what Wikipedia is for - but is still trying to help in good faith - become a productive user? I think there's a real lack of "That wasn't what we want, but you can still help!" and more of an attitude of "If you're writing articles about your cat, get lost." I'd rather see, "We don't need an article about your cat, but how about your cat's breed or the history of cats or the animal control situation in the city where you live?" but I'm not sure how to go about that.- A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire - past ops) 21:13, 16 February 2009 (UTC)