For storms that are not considered notable, which encompasses "fish storms" that did not establish any significant record and caused no loss of life, at least two editors seem to be leaning towards deletion. A number of them are GA quality. It would be better discussed within the project page than the individual storm talk pages, as not everyone edits all articles. Thegreatdr ( talk) 05:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with all but the 2000 October subtropical storm, which I've found was actually a pretty significant Canadian storm (but the article doesn't mention it). -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 06:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like deletion/merger of sub-GA articles would cause much less heartburn, no? Thegreatdr ( talk) 05:04, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion the status of an article should mean absolutely nothing when it comes to merging. If consensus deems an FA and/or GA should be canned, we should have the major right to get rid of them via means necessary GAR / FAR, you name it. Also I think AFDing anything is worthless as all of these would be merges, not deletion. (AFD is a horrible place anyway) I do feel that adding Barry 07 and TD 10 05 to that list applies. I know my opinion is valid because my list of 94 articles is what started this argument on notability. This is an epidemic that Tropical Storm Lee 05 started and it has taken us five years to solve the problem! We've needed this large discussion and I feel its warranted to merge articles.Mitch32( Transportation Historian) 15:55, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
As a minimum, can we agree that, at a minimum, a storm had to affect land? Any storm that didn't affect land falls into the same category, in that the only sources on it have content that is derived from the warning center. That pretty much fails the requirement that there are independent sources. -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
I am just wondering if the TC project adopts the German Wp deletion mentality. Do we lack of place to store those articles or what's going on? Dont't forget to merge Hurricane John (1994) – despite its long meteorological history the storm lacks of impact and, according to Hurricanhink's argumentation therefor lacks of notability. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 19:27, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Well, it's just a discussion to get the ball rolling. I think if Carlotta was in the Atlantic, it wouldn't be seen as important. There, 18 deaths is nothing. As the shipwreck doesn't have an article, I would prefer keeping the article. However, if that shipwreck article is ever created, then Carlotta doesn't need to exist. And actually, above, Carlotta 00 isn't mentioned. It's the 06 one, which had little effect on land. Hurricanehink ( talk) 00:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
If people are still serious about this merging, Tropical Storm Omeka (2010) is a good candidate. The only way that storm establishes some sort of record is if you lump in the Eastern Pacific with the Central Pacific, which NHC (and likely CPHC) won't do, even if both basins share a common database. I think this project assessing Omeka to have established some record, which thus far has not been mentioned by a TCWC/RSMC, either means the record does not really exist, or it is just trivial. Thegreatdr ( talk) 13:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Just an update, Norma was deleted per its AFD. I'm not sure how much more outside of the project discussion is needed (the AFD didn't yield too much non-project discussion), but I'd like to note the closing nom's comment - "The result was delete. just an off topic comment to the close but surely the way to handle marginally/nn stiorms like this is a yearly list?" Basically, he agrees to keep the fish storms on the yearly list. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
I noticed something that's been bothering me. If a tropical cyclone is loosely related to an event (say, it was merged, and that system later caused impact), should that be in the original tropical cyclone's article? I'm not talking when it was one continuous cyclone, both tropical and extratropical (think Gordon 06, Charley 84). There are several examples I can think of that are questionable.
I think we used to get in the habit that if something was loosely related to a tropical cyclone, it had to be in the tropical cyclone article. However, I think we need to get past that.
What do you all think? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:04, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
We discussed that with the TC whose moisture hit Yemen in 2008. Acttally it was never more than a tropical depression (neither by IMD nor by JTWC standards). As a storm this event was not notable. This should be a flood article not a storm article, see 2008 Yemen cyclone and it's moving history for details, as well as the relevant talk pages. But OTOH the moisture would not have been there without the cyclone. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 18:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
OK, I moved Paul, and I think it works much better as a simple flood article. Hurricanehink ( talk) 18:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
All of the articles have been moved, except for Laura 08. What should we do about Atlantic tropical cyclones that are absorbed, and then that system causes impact? Laura isn't the only one, although it's a convenient case. As a tropical cyclone it didn't do much, and the "impact" in the article wasn't related to Laura. Another example is Hurricane Maria (2005). Aside from its tropical impact in the US, as well as its legitimate extratropical impact in Iceland and Scotland, it largely focuses on what it did in Norway, specifically the Hatlestad Slide. To sum up my confusion with a potentially confusing question, to what degree should TC articles be focusing on what they didn't do as TC's? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 17:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else have any thoughts? For the postcursor impact ones, the ones that are most affected are Fabio 06 (impact is just remnant rain in Hawaii, and would not support article) and TD 9 03 (impact is just remnant rain in Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, probably would not support article). For the precursor impact ones, they're all fairly borderline, being called TC articles when they're all (with possible exception of Grace 97) better known as just flooding events. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 04:41, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Near as I can tell, since the beginning of December, one storm article has been created: 1898 Georgia hurricane. Eleven, on the other hand, have been blanked and redirected elsewhere. These numbers equate to the addition of 869 words of content and the deletion of 6,217. Seven of the articles voided were good articles. Some have been in existence for up to five years and never subjected to any formal, site-wide consensual evaluation process. In some cases, content from the deleted articles has been merged into another article without proper attribution (ie., they're copyright violations), leading to blatant issues with undue weight. In List of storms in the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, for example, TS Lee's section is exactly as long as Emily's, a Category 5 hurricane that inflicted nearly $1 billion in damages. Are the two storms really equally significant? Further, there is often little or no justification for the deletion of the articles. Tropical Storm Alex (1998) was blanked, for example, with the edit summary "merging"; nothing in terms of basis in policy or community voice is established. In other cases still, on the talk page for Hurricane Cindy '99, objecting editors are horrifically and deliberately misinterpreted and then referenced by supporters of its deletion. Judging by this conveniently unadvertised list, there are up to 100 more articles in line for this improper treatment. Cucurbitaceae ( talk) 20:54, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
As a member emeritus of this little group, my stance was - and remains - we should only make an article if the content supports one. A category one fishspinner is usually not inherently notable enough for an independent article. That's generally how things work on Wikipedia; when a topic outgrows its "parent" page, you split it off into a new article. Now, if there are procedural or consensus issues, that's fine, but what they're doing doesn't appear to be inherently bad, and I think I disagree fundamentally with merging a GA without obtaining consensus first. But I don't know what's actually happened; I just popped in to comment on this thread, I have no clue what the actual motions are. -- Golbez ( talk) 00:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Look at how many articles were created in October and November... none (other than active storms). There were actually two new articles this month (1898 Georgia and 1868 Atlantic hurricane season) and a recently upgraded FL this month, which is more activity than in months. You can't compare one article being created versus how many articles are merged. The ones that are being merged are storms that affected no one and don't really pass the notability criteria (no content outside of the warning center means there is a lack of significant independent sources, as required by WP:NOTABLE). When you look at the articles that are being merged, they were all bloated to make it look like it was long enough. When they were merged, it wasn't really copyright violations as the info was condensed (and getting rid of the redundancies so common in the low-notability storm articles). Furthermore, you can't really call there being an undue weight in season article. Technically, they were all one of X storms in the season article, so the fact that Erick has a similar section length to Emily isn't terribly problematic. If they were properly weighted, then Katrina's section would be 1,000 times longer than Arlene's, as it caused 1,000 times the deaths and 8,000 times the damage. Surely you wouldn't want that! -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 00:35, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tropical Storm Norma (2005) - I nominated an article for deletion, so we can get some input from outside editors. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 18:44, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I just got back in the full swing of Wikipedaing after the holidays, sorry I didn't get around to replying to this sooner. So, the claim is all these articles "fail WP:N"? How? They're verifiable, using reliable sources. Even if they don't hit land, it's my firm belief that a named tropical system is notable because it is a named tropical system - note that, at WikiProject Aircraft, for instance, an aircraft is deemed notable by being a distinct type of aircraft; it doesn't have to have had any impact on the aviation world; for that matter, it doesn't even have to fly! As noted above, a lot of these articles that are proposed for/have been merged are/were Good Articles. If they were truly non-notable, they wouldn't have become GAs in the first place; furthermore, what good does deleting/merging them do? Is Wikipedia running low on hard disk space in their server farms? I don't belive so. Are the articles the kind of article that would make somebody go "lawl, good ol' unreliable Wikipedia!" upon seeing them? Since they're GA's, I don't think so. In which case...the only argument I can really see for getting rid of them is the fact that some editors don't think they should exist, and therefore use a borderline WP:N argument as the club with which to smack them off of the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not paper; the continued deletion of decent, reasonable, verifable content, here and elsewhere, becasue "it's not notable" is leading me to conclude that Wikipedia just, might, be broken, but it's not in the way so many people claim ("look at all the crap!"); rather, it's broken because people are trying too hard to make Wikipedia just like a paper encyclopedia, and thus tossing a whole orphanage's worth of babies out with the dirty bath water. If WPTC's consensus is that the tossing is both desirable and necessary, I'm afraid the project and myself have irreconciable differences. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:22, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello all,
I sent an email to Chris Landsea a few months ago (around the time of the document with the 1940's and 1950's HURDAT updates). He responded today and said that 1926-1930 Atlantic HURDAT data will be released next week to the public and that the 1930's will be completed by the end of 2011.
— Iune (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
— Iune (talk) 17:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
— Iune (talk) 19:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Since we have been discussing a project-wide FAC run above, lets make it formal. Titoxd( ?!? - cool stuff) 19:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
A new Tropical Cyclone Collaboration of the Fortnight has been selected! This fortnight's article is Numerical weather prediction ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Please help out by providing content, copyediting, or even simply discussing what is needed on the article's talk page. You can help this article become a featured article!
Please nominate and help select more articles for the next time at Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Collaboration.
Well, I made it. I really feel like there should be an overarching article for all of the seasons. I opted to make it a dab, with mentions of any retired storms, as well as the strongest storm if it had an article. Feel free to scrutinize, but I feel it had to be done. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
According to the sea level pressure, Typhoon Gay (1989) is the strongest cyclone in the north indian ocean but on wikipedia and other websites its 1999 Orissa cyclone which had a sea level pressure of 912hpa compared to that of Gay which is 898hpa.. This typhoon is not even mentioned in the intense cyclone list as well.. though it was small but I think its the strongest in NIO region... HunterZone ( talk) 12:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Given the nature of the discussions on this page during the past several weeks, it seems clear to me that this WikiProject needs an objective, clear, and reasonable plan for improving and refining content moving forward. Efforts by individual users seem highly disjointed, and I believe they should be largely focused toward a mutual goal, such as making a particular series of articles more seamless. Merging more obscure TC articles into their respective season pages seems to be the common theme, and aside from my objections to this movement expressed above, I believe that as a component of project reform, this method of refining content does little to further said reform. Most TC season articles are dreadfully underdeveloped, neglecting a majority of potential information or otherwise lacking in quality. Merging a GA-quality article into it leaves the season no better off than it was previously. And if we are to work on serious, sweeping reforms, season articles should be among the top priorities, because they serve as starting points for TC history-related research.
Our top-level articles are generally of decent quality and completeness; tropical cyclone being a featured article certainly helps the cause. Articles such as Tropical cyclone naming, Tropical cyclogenesis, Tropical cyclone scales, and Tropical cyclone rainfall climatology are more-or-less comprehensive, and the project has done a very respectable job developing a base of basic meteorology articles. No other resource in the world to my knowledge has such detailed overview articles of the process that drive, methods that help to forecast, and broad effects of tropical cyclones. The next step is to create and strengthen relationships between these overarching articles and specific historical accounts, starting with season articles and working down to individual storm articles, and finally deciding how to proceed with daughter articles from there.
I believe season articles have yet to so much as approach their full potential. Ideally, every year of every basin's officially recorded seasonal TC activity should be documented somewhere. In some regions, such as the southern Pacific and Australian basins, it might be hard to have year-by-year pages with sufficient content, so perhaps decadal or even multi-basin articles could be made more common. Another important question is what format to use when writing modern season articles, where an abundance of information exists. The 2003 Atlantic hurricane season article employs a summary style in which each storm is dedicated a few sentences to a paragraph of heavily abridged meteorological information, and a general season impact section is appended to the bottom of the article. I prefer this format as opposed to the list-like style of 2000 Atlantic hurricane season, but either way, I'm not fond of having such vastly different formats occur within the same decade in the same basin.
As for the storm articles, the most important step would be to decide upon which class/group of cyclones are notable enough to sustain a stand-alone article. Standards have obviously tightened in the past year or so, with minimal impact storms receiving fewer articles. A decent storm article has enough information to at least balance out its meteorological chronology with its description of land-based impacts. Generally, if a storm had minor or no impacts, alternative methods of covering it should be brought into account.
With that said, one of my greatest concerns is sub-articles of storm pages, such as Effects of Hurricane Charley in South Carolina or Meteorological history of Hurricane Dean. In general, sub-articles are created when the main article approaches or exceeds Wikipedia's size limits or if concerns about the nature of the content arise – particularly involving undue weight toward a particular aspect of the topic. An example of where sub-articles are properly and practically used is Hurricane Dean, which covers an extremely notable and widespread storm. It fairly provides each main region of impact with a summary section and a sub-article. However, for Hurricane Charley, even if its sub-articles on SC and NC were condensed and merged into the main article, it would probably not even approach maximum size limits, so I think the justification for having those sub-articles is weak and atypical at best.
Thoughts would be appreciated. Cucurbitaceae ( talk) 00:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
So, we sort of got off the ball on this, a plan looking forward. Specifically, there is still the lack of consistency among season articles, and then we have the issue of the state articles. For the latter one, is it even encyclopediac to try and list every storm to affect a single state? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 16:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Starting a separate section, I feel we really need to decide about the new vs. old format, and I have a proposal. It came up in the 2008 AHS, when so many storms were impacting Hispaniola, and the article wasn't really reflecting it. I propose that we use a combination of the formats. Have a section by section listing for each storm's meteorological history, followed by a section on the season's impact (like this). That way, there can be proper focus on areas that are affected more severely. For example, the 2004 season's effects in Florida. That should certainly have its own section. Another advantage is that all storms are treated equally, in that "fish storms" still get their own section, right next to a landfalling hurricane. Any thoughts? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 02:20, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Y E Tropical Cyclone 05:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, here is the section that I'm starting to work on. It's taking a bit of time, especially since most of the sections didn't have any impact in them at all. Hopefully you can tell where it's going. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 04:58, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I was thinking earlier that on the infobox hurricane small we have two bars outside the NHEM NHC AOR, one for the SSHS and one for the RSMC Centers scale. Both are usually followed by an abbreviation (SSHS or the RSMC/TCWCs initials). For the Australian/Southern Pacific regions id like to make it default for all infobox hurricane smalls to have (Aus) instead of the RSMC/TCWC initials. The reasons for this are one it would save us having to code PNG NWS or whichever warning center into the infobox and it would be better imo than the RSMC/TCWC initials. I raised this on the IRC Channel and reaction was generally favourable so i thought id bring it here. Jason Rees ( talk) 04:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
{{ Retired Atlantic hurricanes assessment}} has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 ( talk) 04:58, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Feel free to participate in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 January 17#Tornadoes and hurricanes in the United States by state. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 05:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Moving the discussion back to here, list arguments for and against below. Cyclonebiskit ( talk) 01:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
For storms that are not considered notable, which encompasses "fish storms" that did not establish any significant record and caused no loss of life, at least two editors seem to be leaning towards deletion. A number of them are GA quality. It would be better discussed within the project page than the individual storm talk pages, as not everyone edits all articles. Thegreatdr ( talk) 05:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with all but the 2000 October subtropical storm, which I've found was actually a pretty significant Canadian storm (but the article doesn't mention it). -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 06:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like deletion/merger of sub-GA articles would cause much less heartburn, no? Thegreatdr ( talk) 05:04, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion the status of an article should mean absolutely nothing when it comes to merging. If consensus deems an FA and/or GA should be canned, we should have the major right to get rid of them via means necessary GAR / FAR, you name it. Also I think AFDing anything is worthless as all of these would be merges, not deletion. (AFD is a horrible place anyway) I do feel that adding Barry 07 and TD 10 05 to that list applies. I know my opinion is valid because my list of 94 articles is what started this argument on notability. This is an epidemic that Tropical Storm Lee 05 started and it has taken us five years to solve the problem! We've needed this large discussion and I feel its warranted to merge articles.Mitch32( Transportation Historian) 15:55, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
As a minimum, can we agree that, at a minimum, a storm had to affect land? Any storm that didn't affect land falls into the same category, in that the only sources on it have content that is derived from the warning center. That pretty much fails the requirement that there are independent sources. -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 03:19, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
I am just wondering if the TC project adopts the German Wp deletion mentality. Do we lack of place to store those articles or what's going on? Dont't forget to merge Hurricane John (1994) – despite its long meteorological history the storm lacks of impact and, according to Hurricanhink's argumentation therefor lacks of notability. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 19:27, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Well, it's just a discussion to get the ball rolling. I think if Carlotta was in the Atlantic, it wouldn't be seen as important. There, 18 deaths is nothing. As the shipwreck doesn't have an article, I would prefer keeping the article. However, if that shipwreck article is ever created, then Carlotta doesn't need to exist. And actually, above, Carlotta 00 isn't mentioned. It's the 06 one, which had little effect on land. Hurricanehink ( talk) 00:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
If people are still serious about this merging, Tropical Storm Omeka (2010) is a good candidate. The only way that storm establishes some sort of record is if you lump in the Eastern Pacific with the Central Pacific, which NHC (and likely CPHC) won't do, even if both basins share a common database. I think this project assessing Omeka to have established some record, which thus far has not been mentioned by a TCWC/RSMC, either means the record does not really exist, or it is just trivial. Thegreatdr ( talk) 13:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Just an update, Norma was deleted per its AFD. I'm not sure how much more outside of the project discussion is needed (the AFD didn't yield too much non-project discussion), but I'd like to note the closing nom's comment - "The result was delete. just an off topic comment to the close but surely the way to handle marginally/nn stiorms like this is a yearly list?" Basically, he agrees to keep the fish storms on the yearly list. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
I noticed something that's been bothering me. If a tropical cyclone is loosely related to an event (say, it was merged, and that system later caused impact), should that be in the original tropical cyclone's article? I'm not talking when it was one continuous cyclone, both tropical and extratropical (think Gordon 06, Charley 84). There are several examples I can think of that are questionable.
I think we used to get in the habit that if something was loosely related to a tropical cyclone, it had to be in the tropical cyclone article. However, I think we need to get past that.
What do you all think? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:04, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
We discussed that with the TC whose moisture hit Yemen in 2008. Acttally it was never more than a tropical depression (neither by IMD nor by JTWC standards). As a storm this event was not notable. This should be a flood article not a storm article, see 2008 Yemen cyclone and it's moving history for details, as well as the relevant talk pages. But OTOH the moisture would not have been there without the cyclone. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 18:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
OK, I moved Paul, and I think it works much better as a simple flood article. Hurricanehink ( talk) 18:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
All of the articles have been moved, except for Laura 08. What should we do about Atlantic tropical cyclones that are absorbed, and then that system causes impact? Laura isn't the only one, although it's a convenient case. As a tropical cyclone it didn't do much, and the "impact" in the article wasn't related to Laura. Another example is Hurricane Maria (2005). Aside from its tropical impact in the US, as well as its legitimate extratropical impact in Iceland and Scotland, it largely focuses on what it did in Norway, specifically the Hatlestad Slide. To sum up my confusion with a potentially confusing question, to what degree should TC articles be focusing on what they didn't do as TC's? -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 17:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else have any thoughts? For the postcursor impact ones, the ones that are most affected are Fabio 06 (impact is just remnant rain in Hawaii, and would not support article) and TD 9 03 (impact is just remnant rain in Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic, probably would not support article). For the precursor impact ones, they're all fairly borderline, being called TC articles when they're all (with possible exception of Grace 97) better known as just flooding events. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 04:41, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Near as I can tell, since the beginning of December, one storm article has been created: 1898 Georgia hurricane. Eleven, on the other hand, have been blanked and redirected elsewhere. These numbers equate to the addition of 869 words of content and the deletion of 6,217. Seven of the articles voided were good articles. Some have been in existence for up to five years and never subjected to any formal, site-wide consensual evaluation process. In some cases, content from the deleted articles has been merged into another article without proper attribution (ie., they're copyright violations), leading to blatant issues with undue weight. In List of storms in the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, for example, TS Lee's section is exactly as long as Emily's, a Category 5 hurricane that inflicted nearly $1 billion in damages. Are the two storms really equally significant? Further, there is often little or no justification for the deletion of the articles. Tropical Storm Alex (1998) was blanked, for example, with the edit summary "merging"; nothing in terms of basis in policy or community voice is established. In other cases still, on the talk page for Hurricane Cindy '99, objecting editors are horrifically and deliberately misinterpreted and then referenced by supporters of its deletion. Judging by this conveniently unadvertised list, there are up to 100 more articles in line for this improper treatment. Cucurbitaceae ( talk) 20:54, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
As a member emeritus of this little group, my stance was - and remains - we should only make an article if the content supports one. A category one fishspinner is usually not inherently notable enough for an independent article. That's generally how things work on Wikipedia; when a topic outgrows its "parent" page, you split it off into a new article. Now, if there are procedural or consensus issues, that's fine, but what they're doing doesn't appear to be inherently bad, and I think I disagree fundamentally with merging a GA without obtaining consensus first. But I don't know what's actually happened; I just popped in to comment on this thread, I have no clue what the actual motions are. -- Golbez ( talk) 00:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Look at how many articles were created in October and November... none (other than active storms). There were actually two new articles this month (1898 Georgia and 1868 Atlantic hurricane season) and a recently upgraded FL this month, which is more activity than in months. You can't compare one article being created versus how many articles are merged. The ones that are being merged are storms that affected no one and don't really pass the notability criteria (no content outside of the warning center means there is a lack of significant independent sources, as required by WP:NOTABLE). When you look at the articles that are being merged, they were all bloated to make it look like it was long enough. When they were merged, it wasn't really copyright violations as the info was condensed (and getting rid of the redundancies so common in the low-notability storm articles). Furthermore, you can't really call there being an undue weight in season article. Technically, they were all one of X storms in the season article, so the fact that Erick has a similar section length to Emily isn't terribly problematic. If they were properly weighted, then Katrina's section would be 1,000 times longer than Arlene's, as it caused 1,000 times the deaths and 8,000 times the damage. Surely you wouldn't want that! -- Hurricanehink ( talk) 00:35, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tropical Storm Norma (2005) - I nominated an article for deletion, so we can get some input from outside editors. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 18:44, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I just got back in the full swing of Wikipedaing after the holidays, sorry I didn't get around to replying to this sooner. So, the claim is all these articles "fail WP:N"? How? They're verifiable, using reliable sources. Even if they don't hit land, it's my firm belief that a named tropical system is notable because it is a named tropical system - note that, at WikiProject Aircraft, for instance, an aircraft is deemed notable by being a distinct type of aircraft; it doesn't have to have had any impact on the aviation world; for that matter, it doesn't even have to fly! As noted above, a lot of these articles that are proposed for/have been merged are/were Good Articles. If they were truly non-notable, they wouldn't have become GAs in the first place; furthermore, what good does deleting/merging them do? Is Wikipedia running low on hard disk space in their server farms? I don't belive so. Are the articles the kind of article that would make somebody go "lawl, good ol' unreliable Wikipedia!" upon seeing them? Since they're GA's, I don't think so. In which case...the only argument I can really see for getting rid of them is the fact that some editors don't think they should exist, and therefore use a borderline WP:N argument as the club with which to smack them off of the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not paper; the continued deletion of decent, reasonable, verifable content, here and elsewhere, becasue "it's not notable" is leading me to conclude that Wikipedia just, might, be broken, but it's not in the way so many people claim ("look at all the crap!"); rather, it's broken because people are trying too hard to make Wikipedia just like a paper encyclopedia, and thus tossing a whole orphanage's worth of babies out with the dirty bath water. If WPTC's consensus is that the tossing is both desirable and necessary, I'm afraid the project and myself have irreconciable differences. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:22, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello all,
I sent an email to Chris Landsea a few months ago (around the time of the document with the 1940's and 1950's HURDAT updates). He responded today and said that 1926-1930 Atlantic HURDAT data will be released next week to the public and that the 1930's will be completed by the end of 2011.
— Iune (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
— Iune (talk) 17:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
— Iune (talk) 19:01, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Since we have been discussing a project-wide FAC run above, lets make it formal. Titoxd( ?!? - cool stuff) 19:45, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
A new Tropical Cyclone Collaboration of the Fortnight has been selected! This fortnight's article is Numerical weather prediction ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Please help out by providing content, copyediting, or even simply discussing what is needed on the article's talk page. You can help this article become a featured article!
Please nominate and help select more articles for the next time at Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Collaboration.
Well, I made it. I really feel like there should be an overarching article for all of the seasons. I opted to make it a dab, with mentions of any retired storms, as well as the strongest storm if it had an article. Feel free to scrutinize, but I feel it had to be done. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 05:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
According to the sea level pressure, Typhoon Gay (1989) is the strongest cyclone in the north indian ocean but on wikipedia and other websites its 1999 Orissa cyclone which had a sea level pressure of 912hpa compared to that of Gay which is 898hpa.. This typhoon is not even mentioned in the intense cyclone list as well.. though it was small but I think its the strongest in NIO region... HunterZone ( talk) 12:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Given the nature of the discussions on this page during the past several weeks, it seems clear to me that this WikiProject needs an objective, clear, and reasonable plan for improving and refining content moving forward. Efforts by individual users seem highly disjointed, and I believe they should be largely focused toward a mutual goal, such as making a particular series of articles more seamless. Merging more obscure TC articles into their respective season pages seems to be the common theme, and aside from my objections to this movement expressed above, I believe that as a component of project reform, this method of refining content does little to further said reform. Most TC season articles are dreadfully underdeveloped, neglecting a majority of potential information or otherwise lacking in quality. Merging a GA-quality article into it leaves the season no better off than it was previously. And if we are to work on serious, sweeping reforms, season articles should be among the top priorities, because they serve as starting points for TC history-related research.
Our top-level articles are generally of decent quality and completeness; tropical cyclone being a featured article certainly helps the cause. Articles such as Tropical cyclone naming, Tropical cyclogenesis, Tropical cyclone scales, and Tropical cyclone rainfall climatology are more-or-less comprehensive, and the project has done a very respectable job developing a base of basic meteorology articles. No other resource in the world to my knowledge has such detailed overview articles of the process that drive, methods that help to forecast, and broad effects of tropical cyclones. The next step is to create and strengthen relationships between these overarching articles and specific historical accounts, starting with season articles and working down to individual storm articles, and finally deciding how to proceed with daughter articles from there.
I believe season articles have yet to so much as approach their full potential. Ideally, every year of every basin's officially recorded seasonal TC activity should be documented somewhere. In some regions, such as the southern Pacific and Australian basins, it might be hard to have year-by-year pages with sufficient content, so perhaps decadal or even multi-basin articles could be made more common. Another important question is what format to use when writing modern season articles, where an abundance of information exists. The 2003 Atlantic hurricane season article employs a summary style in which each storm is dedicated a few sentences to a paragraph of heavily abridged meteorological information, and a general season impact section is appended to the bottom of the article. I prefer this format as opposed to the list-like style of 2000 Atlantic hurricane season, but either way, I'm not fond of having such vastly different formats occur within the same decade in the same basin.
As for the storm articles, the most important step would be to decide upon which class/group of cyclones are notable enough to sustain a stand-alone article. Standards have obviously tightened in the past year or so, with minimal impact storms receiving fewer articles. A decent storm article has enough information to at least balance out its meteorological chronology with its description of land-based impacts. Generally, if a storm had minor or no impacts, alternative methods of covering it should be brought into account.
With that said, one of my greatest concerns is sub-articles of storm pages, such as Effects of Hurricane Charley in South Carolina or Meteorological history of Hurricane Dean. In general, sub-articles are created when the main article approaches or exceeds Wikipedia's size limits or if concerns about the nature of the content arise – particularly involving undue weight toward a particular aspect of the topic. An example of where sub-articles are properly and practically used is Hurricane Dean, which covers an extremely notable and widespread storm. It fairly provides each main region of impact with a summary section and a sub-article. However, for Hurricane Charley, even if its sub-articles on SC and NC were condensed and merged into the main article, it would probably not even approach maximum size limits, so I think the justification for having those sub-articles is weak and atypical at best.
Thoughts would be appreciated. Cucurbitaceae ( talk) 00:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
So, we sort of got off the ball on this, a plan looking forward. Specifically, there is still the lack of consistency among season articles, and then we have the issue of the state articles. For the latter one, is it even encyclopediac to try and list every storm to affect a single state? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 16:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Starting a separate section, I feel we really need to decide about the new vs. old format, and I have a proposal. It came up in the 2008 AHS, when so many storms were impacting Hispaniola, and the article wasn't really reflecting it. I propose that we use a combination of the formats. Have a section by section listing for each storm's meteorological history, followed by a section on the season's impact (like this). That way, there can be proper focus on areas that are affected more severely. For example, the 2004 season's effects in Florida. That should certainly have its own section. Another advantage is that all storms are treated equally, in that "fish storms" still get their own section, right next to a landfalling hurricane. Any thoughts? --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 02:20, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Y E Tropical Cyclone 05:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, here is the section that I'm starting to work on. It's taking a bit of time, especially since most of the sections didn't have any impact in them at all. Hopefully you can tell where it's going. --♫ Hurricanehink ( talk) 04:58, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I was thinking earlier that on the infobox hurricane small we have two bars outside the NHEM NHC AOR, one for the SSHS and one for the RSMC Centers scale. Both are usually followed by an abbreviation (SSHS or the RSMC/TCWCs initials). For the Australian/Southern Pacific regions id like to make it default for all infobox hurricane smalls to have (Aus) instead of the RSMC/TCWC initials. The reasons for this are one it would save us having to code PNG NWS or whichever warning center into the infobox and it would be better imo than the RSMC/TCWC initials. I raised this on the IRC Channel and reaction was generally favourable so i thought id bring it here. Jason Rees ( talk) 04:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
{{ Retired Atlantic hurricanes assessment}} has been nominated for deletion. 65.93.14.196 ( talk) 04:58, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Feel free to participate in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 January 17#Tornadoes and hurricanes in the United States by state. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 05:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Moving the discussion back to here, list arguments for and against below. Cyclonebiskit ( talk) 01:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)