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We'll be in the Signpost on Wednesday, 2 Jan about 17:00 UTC, someone noticed us, be sure to read it, many of us get it, read it on my talk page if you like. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I have just been spending some time at the Scoutwiki network and in particular at the English Scoutwiki. This is a successor of the Scouting Wikia. I do not think we should see this as a rival. For a start, a lot of Wikipedia articles were moved over there some months ago. Some were not moved and I am in the process of moving the State and other articles from Australia, the County/Area articles from UK and scouting articles from New Zealand and other places in Oceania. We need to ensure that articles from WP do not degrade with time. It is aiming for a broader coverage than we have and welcomes articles down to Troop level. It is therefore a place to help us not bite newbies with their Troop articles, often badly written. We can help them to move the articles to ScoutWiki. In moving some articles from Australia I have already undone some merges we did earlier to non-notable articles. The English ScoutWiki is however very quite. It is smaller than the French and Finish ScoutWikis, probably because the main proponents, who are bureaucrats and administrators, come from these two countries. The English ScoutWiki is only slightly larger than the Dutch ScoutWiki. In the last three days I have only seen edits in "Recent changes" from one other editor, two anon editor (one vandalizing) and one of the admins. There are therefore a number of potential problems. I think the most pressing might be living people issues and copyright violation of both text and images. General vandalism does not seem to be common. Go over and take a look. You can comment on my talk page there. I have the same user name. -- Bduke ( talk) 05:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Over two years of part-time editing on Wikipedia has done more for my writing and debating skills than any of my formal courses. ScoutWiki does have its uses— local unit articles are certainly a good fit there. It might be a place to store reference material that is currently on troop websites and not suited to WikiSource. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:58, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Ed, I agree with you. It is difficult to be at your best there. It is also a massive job to get it fixed up to something decent and not just a mass of articles. The categories, for example, are a mess. If it gets more English speaking editors it might improve. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Rlevse has served most successfully in this role since we reappointed him almost exactly a year ago. That discussion is now at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 3#Lead coordinator. Rlevse, after some discussion, stated "Thanks for everyone's support. I support a one year term with no limit on being reelected. Let's do it every Dec and close in early Jan, like we just did. Bduke is in charge of overseeing it. This will give folks a chance to openly voice concerns, if any exist. MILHIST does it this way and has had the same lead coord for some years but they still hold the election." I then closed the discussion with that being the process. However, we forgot to do this in early December (Alright, I forgot). I am therefore starting the process now by calling for expressions of interest or proposals for the coordinator for 2008. If someone other than Rlevse is appointed, the person concerned will be mentored by Rlevse and take over early in Febuary. I hope the process at the end of 2008 will be as described above. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the support everyone. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Need category help at Category_talk:Arrowman_Wikipedians — Rlevse • Talk • 21:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
An anon editor at Scouting in Ayrshire has indicated that in April 2008, eight new Scout Regions will replace 31 Scout Areas in Scotland. This will mean that 30 articles need to be merged into 8 (we had one - Orkneys - deleted). This will be a complex job. Can we build a team to think about it in advance? Any editors from Scotland? -- Bduke ( talk) 23:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it is time to retire {{ BSAseries}}. I created it well before {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} and {{ Scouting}} were developed— those templates are more universal. We should use {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} for organizations and events and {{ Infobox Person}} for biographies; {{ Scouting}} can be used with all of these. Further discussion on the talk page. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Keep, because it is doing a good job and we have a lot of articles on BSA topics. BSA is notable enough do have it´s own template.- Phips ( talk) 14:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
portal=yes
; I had to remove the background color else the logo disappears. More colors at
List of colors is someone has different ideas. --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
14:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)It's blue and gold, Cub colors, leaving out other programs. How about green/brown, outdoorsy colors of some kind? Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:02, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Pick something from list of colors. One problem is that all of the text elements in the box are links, thus light blue. Unless someone knows how to change the link color in the box, we can't change the font color, thus the background must be something light. Some examples:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 22:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I made the changes live—let me know of any issues. Changes: Default width=215px; width now variable to match other boxes; background = wheat; reorganized entries; portal is optional and off by default
In case you don't know it, you should connect to wiki via a secure connection, which has this address: [1], if nothing else it'll keep your username and pwd hidden from the bad guys. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
It's Jan 11 and I just got the Jan 2 SignPost that has us in it, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-01-02/WikiProject_report. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I think this article should go AfD and have proposed accordingly at Talk:Scouting songs. But, before initiating the process, do other Project participants have thoughts one way or the other? JGHowes talk - 15:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
From the BSA webmaster:
On January 14th, the web site http://www.scouting.org will move into a new publishing platform. You will see the benefits in enhanced navigation and search, e-mail and subscription services for every page, and a consistent look and feel throughout the site. The biggest change to Scouting.org will appear in the way that URL’s are handled. For example, the URL for the Boy Scouts program on Scouting.org has previously looked something like “ http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by” whereas the new URL for the Boy Scouts program will be “ http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts.aspx”. This new URL handling system will provide more intuitive URL’s and make it easier for councils and others to provide links back to Scouting.org.
So, it looks like we are going to have a bunch of busted links next week. This message only mentions the main www.scouting.org site and may not include other sites like olc.scouting.org or marketing.scouting.org. For links, see Special:Linksearch/www.scouting.org. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
UGH, unless they provide a table that cross refs the new links, we have to figure it out on our own. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
This is most unfortunate: According to his talk page, he has quit. (Please don't shoot the messenger!) - MBK 004 04:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone figure out why Rlevse quit yet? Man it was like poof! Find the turd that caused this.-- THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 05:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Rlevse making veiled threats about me to other users was the last straw. I have had some e-mail discussion with him, but I hope he is sleeping now and will reconsider when he wakes. Give him all the support you guys on his side of the pond can give. -- Bduke ( talk) 06:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I actually know Rlevse in the real world. I've spoken to him about this. He's very upset and frustrated. The ANI thread was the last straw, but there's more; but none of it is against the members of the Scouting Project. He loves this project as you know and its members. I don't know if he'll come back or not. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 14:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I have happy news to report. He has returned. - MBK 004 19:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
After much thought and deliberation I have decided to return. Many wikians contacted me by various means and I truly appreciate the support from all of them. Man, did I need that wiki break! I have learned from it and will use the experience to improve. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
You forgot to mention that your first act was going to be making me International Scouting Beermeister.-- THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 22:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
What is the template to use when our articles are cited or used in other media? Chris (クリス) ( talk) 20:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have to open this discussion when we have just received bad news about Rlevse, but a process has started that I have to follow through . A few days ago, I made a suggestion on Talk:Girl Guides about several pages connected with Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting ( Girl Guides, Girl Guide, Girl Scout, Girl Scouts, Girl Guide and Girl Scout, Girl Guiding, Girl Scouting, Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting) The current set-up is confusing and it's difficult to know where to put information. To summarise my proposal, I suggested that if it ends in -ing, it's about the movement. If it doesn't end in -ing, it's about the section/age group. All the GG and GS pages should be brought in line with this. I will admit with hindsight that my proposal could have been clearer. Be that as it may, one user supported the suggestion. Another user opposed the suggestion so that a centralised discussion could be had about the issue. While I am nervous about reporting the opposer's arguments myself, I think this user's view was that the suggestion I had made contravened Scouting Wikiproject's guidelines and so should be discussed. I think the crux of the problem revolves around how we cope with the article with plurals in their titles. The project guidelines at the top of this page say:
Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, etc - General summary pages that have see also links to other Scouting pages. Used to avoid to lead users to more indepth articles, no longer disambiguation pages due to all the confusion of different naming conventions. All other plurals redirect to the singular per Wikipedia standard, not to Scouting or a separate organization oriented article
I had not realised this was what the guideline said when I made my initial proposal. In response, I would point out that Boy Scouts is a disambig page and so doesn't fit the guideline given. I would also point out that an article that summarises another article is not something that Wikipedia is designed to cope with. I would be happy to modify my original suggestion so that the plurals are all disambig pages. Howeve r, this is still not what the guideline suggests and so I propose we should also change the guideline. Kingbird ( talk) 05:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I have been looking at this in detail, and I think we are trying to maintain universal articles that just do not work. Age Groups in Scouting and Guiding is a good article in that it lists the different national Scout organizations and their sections. On the other hand, articles like Beavers (Scouting) are not really that good; they try to give a generic overview of a subject that varies greatly from one organization to another; this particular subject is better covered by a number of articles on Beavers, Joeys, Cub Scouts and the like. A big chunk of these universal articles is given to each NSO.
My recommendation is to merge these; it looks like there really is no unique content that is not in the other articles. Articles on Scouting sections are:
There are some similar "universal" articles that should be examined as well:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I have some sympathy for Ed's view but I want to look at them in detail. I have a real problem, which I raised once before, about the Boy Scout article. Cub Scout may have the problems that Ed raises but it is about the section on an international basis. Therefore it has no problem with the fact that the Cub section has girls in some countries. Boy Scout, however, is not about the section. It is supposed to be about the "boy" in a way that no other article is. It therefore does have serious problems and confusion about the fact that girls are in the Scout section in some countries. If we keep the international articles on sections, then Boy Scout should be rewritten to be about the section, the original section of the Scouting movement, and no about the boy. I think there is a similar problem with the Guide article, but I need to check that. Probably more later. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
At this point, I'm unclear as to what various courses of action are being proposed. Kingbird ( talk) 21:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Article(s): Boy Scouts of America
Request: lighten for detail -- Chris (クリス) ( talk) 06:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Graphist opinion: Adjusting Brightness/contrast to see the mountain results in a washed out sky. Which can be fixed, although a close examination of the skyline might reveal some flaws. Most of which disappeared with downsampling (3000px to 1500). Sagredo ⊙☿♀♁♂♃♄ 21:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikia is a wiki farm stated by Jimmy Wales and associated with the Wikimedia Foundation. They host an assortment of wikis, including The Spanking Art Wiki. A fellow WP editor found that Image:ScoutFun.png, uploaded by by Rlevse, was being used in the Boy Scout article on Spanking Art (which is creepy in itself). After much discussion, [2] the Boy Scout page was chopped, Wales deleted the image from their site and the SA folks created a new policy on images.
Those of use involved in the discussions quickly realized that uploading photos of youth may not be a good idea. There is no way to control reuse once an image is released as free. I have drafted a guideline at User:Gadget850/Sandbox4; once this is polished, I will merge it into WP:S-IMG.
Wikipedia is not censored, but we do need to understand the ramifications outside of WP. There are so many laws and rules that may cover this that we cannot make specific rules of our own, just guidelines and recommendations.
We were lucky here in that Wikia had close ties to WP and the issue was resolved quickly; this may not hold true for other web sites.
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
WOSM's article on the admission of OSMK [4] uses large sections of Organization of the Scout Movement of Kazakhstan, but it neither mentions the Wikipedia as source nor the authors nor the GDFL. Does anybody know how this is handled on the English Wikipedia (I'm only firm with the German way...) and could take the necessary steps? -- jergen ( talk) 09:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
What about http://n2zgu.50megs.com/KAZ.htm? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Once again someone uninvolved with our Project decides they know what's best for us, and changes a whole bunch of our stuff without discussion. Once again they're our navigation boxes for the bottoms of articles. I have undone the unwelcome changes, and let the user know they are welcome to join the ongoing discussion here. We've done this before. As I understand it, very few of our navigation boxes are meant to be used with each other, and those that are, we've already made collapsible. Those that are meant to be standalone, we've left uncollapsible as they add to instead of distract from the article. I'm just tired of others unrelated trying to decide what's best for us, though I know that will be a perennial battle. Thoughts? Anyone is most welcome. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
state=plain
? --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
13:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
The reason for the edits was that I was randomly browsing around and encounterd Polish_Scouting_Association#External_links_and_references where three Scouting navigation boxes are stacked one on top of the other. So I decided to implement standardized navbox so it would look better (I am a very visual person). If your only complain is that they are not supposed to collapse, you can suppress that feature (as suggested by Gadget850). That way everyone would be happy, no? Renata ( talk) 16:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
{{
WOSM Regions}}
back to the navbox, but added the state parameter so that hide does not show. In my opinion, the use of {{
navbox}} creates a standard and makes it easier for editors to make minor updates without having to understand a bunch of code. If you don't like it, that's OK; just revert as it really should not be a big issue. If it does work for you, then we should update the other templates --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
17:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
So what's the outcome? Renata ( talk) 17:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
While i have no problem with Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/Scouts Australia adding me to a category (Wikipedians interested in Scouting) but its for current and past members and i know a few past members like myself that aren't interested in scouts anymore like the category implies. Peachey88 ( Talk Page | Contribs) 09:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
|categories=no}}
.--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Found and uploaded some good PD images of B-P, W.W. Head, Dan Beard, and E.T. Seton in the George Grantham Bain collection at the Library of Congress. They are better and clearer than the Non-Free images previously used, which I've tagged {{ orfud}}. JGHowes talk - 18:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I took on the task of updating our navboxes in category:WikiProject Scouting templates to use the standard {{ navbox}}. The navbox template has a lot of options, so I think I did a pretty good job. There is room for a few tweaks:
Please let me know what you think on this. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, let's look at what I did:
Now that these templates have been converted, further changes are relatively trivial Some possibilities:
So, let me know what you think on this. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 03:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I have done a test update of {{ Scouting}} using {{ Navigation with collapsible groups}}. Please see Template:Scouting/sandbox for the test version and Template:Scouting/testcases for examples. The new version differs from the old in that it uses named parameters. Leave commens on the template talk page. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I just selected the Feb 2008 portal items. This gets harder every month. It'd be a great help if people would nominate items/articles. To do so, just click on the "candidates" link in each section. Kudos to User:Kingbird who does a great job keeping up the current news section. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
A hybrid image has been created so there don't need to be two images of the same badge on the article, is this acceptable? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 02:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh Thou Ed Gadget the Template God, :) what do you think of standardizing {{ Scouting in Poland}} to be horizontal rather than vertical, meant to be placed at the bottom of articles rather than competing with our broader infobox, and standardized with our color scheme? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 22:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
This would be very easy to convert to a navbox, but it bears some further thought. Polish Scouting Association is already over-navigated with six navboxes. It looks like {{ ZHP}} has most of the links used in {{ Scouting in Poland}}. Both have a lot of redlinks in Polish , so I'm not sure what they all mean. Should we convert {{ Scouting in Poland}} from an infobox to a navbox as is, try to merge it with {{ ZHP}} or create another navbox with the extra info? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 22:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:ZHP has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I propose to create 2 new articles/documents on the Wikipedia Commons (not wikipedia itself); namely "Assembly of a mini survival kit" and "Tying the only knots you'll ever need". The latter would include no more than 8 knots which are helpful in survival situations and in low-tech construction (eg in the developing world). These knots are:
Some examples of the knots described
Example on how the "Assembly of a mini survival kit-article is to look like at Wikipedia Commons" should look like:
As these documents simplify the knots one should learn to the bare minimum, they are easier to remember/use in situations when they are needed. I am guessing that with these 2 documents, we may do allot of good for the developing world (humanitarian advantage) and help the scouting effort aswell.
Can I get support on this and is it possible the WikiProject Scouting community may undertake action to make the documents ?
Thanks in advance. KVDP ( talk) 12:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
As part of the 2007 Centenary, Nepal renamed Urkema Peak in the Himalayas to Baden-Powell Peak. [5] [6] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
On the Spanish Wikipedia, I found this character, translated crudely but in whole: "Prempeh was a head Ashanti that defended his ethnic group from the English invasion in 1893. He was captured and pardoned by Robert Baden-Powell and exiled later. His legacy is the left-handed Scout handshake."
The English Wiki has a space for him at
Does anyone else come up with background on the veracity of this? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 08:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I found the same in Walter Hansen (in German):Der Wolf, der nie schläft-Das abenteuerliche Leben des Lord Baden-Powell, published by Herder Freiburg-Basel-Vienna, 1985, p.162 (Gruß, Pfiff und System der kleinen Gruppe) and p.124 (Die Krobos:Geheimbund an der Goldküste). Also there p.126/27 Prepeh became founder member and president of Scouting in Ghana in 1919. The left hanshake was used by the Krobos a special unit of the Ashantis.- Phips ( talk) 22:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Infobox {{ EurScout}} is used only in WOSM-Eurasian Region. I suggest we deprecate this in favor of navbox {{ EurAsiaScout}}. The image should be reused in the body of the article similar to WOSM-European Region. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Please take a look at some general comments on all these articles that I have written at Talk:The Scout Association#County/Area articles. Comments there are welcome. There are are also issues there that affect similar articles in other parts of the world, but I want to concentrate on the UK at this time. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
{{ Scouting Sections Infobox}} is currently used in only a handful of articles— {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} has been extended to the same functionality. See Template:Infobox WorldScouting/testcases for examples, including how affiliation can be used for the parent section of a sub-section like Young Leaders. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:55, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
A mom in my troop grew up in Ottawa, Illinois, where William D. Boyce grew up and is buried. She sent me 7 photos of the grave site and I've put them on commons, see Image:BoyceGrave1.jpg though Image:BoyceGrave7.jpg. I made a category for Boyce on Commons too. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Viz Boy Scout Literature. Anyone care to do something to bring it up to scratch? -- Paularblaster ( talk) 00:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Gadget850, At least the ref should be saved, can you move it to the best place and then I'll delete the article. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
If you mean :
I have no idea where we would use it, nor would I use a reference I had not personally read. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I'll just delete it. Any admin can always retrieve it if we ever need it. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
It has been suggested that this article be removed from our project scope, and I would like to open the discourse to our members for wider input. POV pushers on both sides have finally found Imam al-Mahdi Scouts, I think it should be watchdogged, perhaps locked down tight until we do have all necessary facts, but I do not think removal from our project is in order.
It is precisely because they use the name and symbols that they have to fall under our scope. There have historically been and are now Scout groups, even within WOSM, that abuse the name and heritage, but because they use the name "Scout" and not "Pioneer" or something else, they are still within our purview. Like a tailbone, not sure what really to do with it, but there it is. We don't have to condone it to have it within our scope.
Our mission on our tags says "as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting," of starting to disinclude those distasteful to us if there is evidence that we should not.
My points are these
In short, if there were a Cheeseburger WikiProject, and if some place had something they called a "cheeseburger", but it was goat meat, and hummus instead of ketchup, and came with pickled radishes instead of fries, though that is nauseous, because enough of the basics are there, it should be included because it still has enough of the basics for its parentage to be recognized.
I agree it is a problematic article, but we should keep it under our purview lest those POV pushers claim things in Scouting's name and our Project's name that will blemish us. This way we can still control the content from going POV either direction, because we're the best WP going and we do care about what is out there.
Of course, these are just my views, trying to be impartial, please everyone let us know what you think! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The basic question here is, do they use the Scout method? Or are they more akin to Young Pioneers, Red Falcons and/or Hitler Youth? I don't know. — Rlevse • Talk • 04:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Gadget850 and Rlevse are correct, we need to find out better, if possible, just what the nature and affiliation of this organization is. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Take a look at The Dangerous Book for Boys, and let nobody tell you Scoutcraft and ideals are irrelevant in the 21st Century. :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 06:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello tomorrow is World Thinking Day or just Thinking Day, so I send my Greetings to you all out there in the whole world as a brother scout. With the best wishes for you, your family and your Scout group
Yours in Worldwide Brotherhood and Scouting- Phips ( talk) 22:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I would love to know how this one got its name. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 08:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Image:ZR250MillionScouts.jpg has been listed for deletion. Please visit Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2008 February 25#Image:ZR250MillionScouts.jpg and vote against the deletion of this image. This image was placed in the article specifically to show that an image was taken during a specific less-than-a-year period in which the nation was known as Zimbabwe Rhodesia from June 1 to December 12, 1979, preceded by Rhodesia and followed by Zimbabwe, and as such cannot be replaced. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 21:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm proposing that we take a look at the importance assessments of certain articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Assessment#Proposed update of Importance ratings. JGHowes talk - 20:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need {{ GSLAC Camp System}}? In the long run these damn camp articles are just going to be more and more problematic. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Will someone please keep an eye on, perhaps lock WOSM, the acronym? The disambig doesn't apparently suffice for some, so it keeps getting changed back from the redirect to our article. It is far more important than the radio station in Mississippi. Thanks Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 04:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Would someone knowledgeable look at Sea Scout (Ireland) and see what images should be retained? The images have no source and are incorrectly licensed, but some should probably not be used. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Just thought you should be aware of this userbox up for deletion since it's categorized under scouting users: CFIREUSA MfD. Dreadstar † 22:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I took the new hazardous weather course offered online by the BSA. [12] When I get to the hypothermia section, I noticed a familiar image— the ripple in the cover is unique. [13] Compare it to Image:Handbook.jpg. I checked with Scoutersig and verified that he had scanned the handbook image at home and uploaded it. Looks like we are starting to get noticed. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Dragonskin is a Venture Scout activity in New South Wales. User:Francis.conroy wrote an article on it at the end of Dragon Skin, which is a disambiguation page. I removed it from there and added it to his talk page, where I also suggested a much contracted rewrite free of POV, that might be added to Scouting in New South Wales. Please keep an eye on it. -- Bduke ( talk) 04:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
You BSA guys have made it at the Boy Scouts Cabal. Us non-USA folks do not get a look in. I'll have to be content with the Australian Cabal. -- Bduke ( talk) 21:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This user is a member of the Boy Scout Cabal and is experienced at tying up discussions and truculent users. |
![]() |
For personal amusement only. Anyone stuffing this into the userbox list is going to get the Scout Stave of Justice administered. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been adding them one or two at a time as I've been finding them, but today I took a look at all the biographies of astronauts here, and there are quite a few that are not tagged. When I get done tagging, should I add them to the section on the project main-page, or should I just list them here, because there is at least 10. - MBK 004 20:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't really know what they are doing with this, but NESA is sending out a mass-mailer this last week. It looks like they will be planning to publish a registry of some sort. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 23:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at this list and thinking, is there any reason we are keeping the redlinks with no explanation on them, or may I delete them and snug this up? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Various tools keep quietly appearing under My Preferences > Gadgets. Some that I recommend enabling:
If you do a lot of image work, I also recommend:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
:-) I´m happy about that.- Phips ( talk) 15:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
is there a "move from Commons" tag, for images which are not appropriate there but which can be fairly used on the English Wikipedia? I am trying to save some images which were put on Commons but have no business there. Thanks. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 02:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Today I went to go check a local Girl Scout website, and it redirected me thus: "Thank you for visiting the Girl Scouts of Colorado, Western Slope Service Center website. As of October 1, 2007, we are joined together with our sister Girl Scouts from the state as one Girl Scouts of Colorado council, where we will build girls of courage, confidence and character who make the world a better place. To learn more about Girl Scouting on the Western Slope, please visit our new website at www.girlscoutsofcolorado.org." After I got over the mild diabetic shock from the writing style, ;) I wondered. Are such state-wide mergers going on throughout the GSUSA, and where would all this be documented? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 09:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
WOSM is considering the applications of four NSOs:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU)
Following the recommendations of Resolution 2/05 adopted by the 37th World Scout Conference in Tunisia, the constitutive congress of the National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU) was held on 27 March 2007. The congress, which gathered Scout representatives from most regions of Ukraine, approved the Constitution of NOSU and elected its governing bodies. This event was made possible thanks to efforts of three Scout associations (PLAST, SPOK and SICH) to work towards unification of Scouting in Ukraine in a new single NSO so as to be able to join WOSM.
Reference: [19] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason why three of the major headings on the main project page are Computer Science, Relational algebra, and Economics? Why is "New Scouting Articles" a subsection of "Economics"? Why the disambig page tag floating in the middle of what is clearly not a disambig page? Did I miss something? Kingbird ( talk) 04:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone who knows more about the situation in Canada needs to keep an eye on this article. I reverted an anon's continued removal of materials, and semi-protected to get discussion on the talk page. It looks like the anon has come back using a little used username, but he is explaining his changes. However sources are needed. -- Bduke ( talk) 06:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
This article dealing with the Bhutan Scout Association has some POV problems which needs to be sorted out. As Bhutan is an independent sovereign nation, the sections on scouting in Tibet and Sikkim should be removed from this article, and placed within the respective Chinese and Indian scouting articles. The inclusion of Tibet on this article is especially troubling, due not only to it being unreferenced, but also because the PRC, with which Bhutan does not have any diplomatic relations, has embarked on a campaign to have Dzongkha renamed by firms such as Microsoft to 'Tibetan - Bhutanese' - whilst Bhutan and Tibet share similar cultures, they are different and distinct cultures all the same. Additionally, due to a border dispute between Bhutan and China, and the lack of formal diplomatic relations between the two, the Chinese actively lead incursions into Bhutan and build roads and the like in Bhutanese territory. Having Tibet and Sikkim on the Bhutan page is opening a big can of worms which I don't believe that Wikipedia should be opening, and hence they should be split out of the article altogether. On another note, the Bhutan Scouts Association as it is officially known (English is an official language of Bhutan) is overseen by the Scouts and Cultural Education Division of the Department of Youth, Culture and Sports, which comes under the umbrella of the Ministry of Education. The BSA has an online presence at http://www.education.gov.bt, with the specific pages at http://www.education.gov.bt/Departments/Dept_YCS/SCED/SCED.html, with a multitude of information, including various handbooks and guides which might be beneficial for this project and development of the Bhutan SA page. Note, the association page on the page is incorrect, the correct badge can be seen in documents such as the scoutmaster handbook which can be downloaded from their site. Anyway, if someone from within the project can look at the Tibet and Sikkim issue, and make any necessary changes; not being familiar with the setup of scout articles on WP, I am hesitant to do it myself. -- Россавиа Диалог 10:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
According to the official Bhutan site, it's Bhutan Scouts Association - with the 's', not "Scout" (without the 's'), so I've made the rename. I also think including Tibet and Sikkim is off the track. My suggestion to Chris is to take Egel's suggestion and make a topical article with the name Egel suggested or a similar name, leaving the Bhutan article strictly dealing with Bhutan. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I am a little surprised at the reply from Chris above, so I have made the decision to move the sections dealing with Tibet and Sikkim to the Chinese and Indian articles respectively. This stops the Bhutan article from being POV in this regard; if there is POV in the Chinese article, this is not reason to dump it in the Bhutan article, for the reasons I mentioned above. One thing I did forget to mention is that the Chinese government has done what they have done to Bhutan due to the ridiculous claim that Bhutan has territorial designs on Tibet (an incredulous claim considering Bhutan is still emerging from isolation, and doesn't have the ability to defend itself against Chinese incursions). I also removed speculation of Bhutan being involved in Tibet for 2 main reasons; 1) It is assuming that Tibet will (or is going) to gain independence from China, or that China will allow scouting in Tibet with outside assistance and 2) scouting in Bhutan is run under the Bhutan Ministry of Education, and whilst it comes under govermment, the Bhutan MoE is run on a tight budget as it is (with the country as a whole being a recipient of foreign development aid) and what money the Ministry does have would likely be spent on projects within Bhutan first. Whilst there may be more important POV issues to deal with, articles dealing with Bhutan are the poster child of why WP:BIAS was set up. I see that Rlevse has moved the article, thanks, the old name seemed somewhat problematic to me; not knowing Dzongkha, this is guestimation on my part, but Bhutan Scout Tshogpa is part Dzongkha-part English, and it most likely is not known as Bhutan Scout Tshogpa in Dzongkha - tshopga seems to mean party, group, and probably also association - the Dzongkha word for Bhutan is Druk Yul (commonly abbreviated to simply Druk in some settings, so the transliterated name would likely be 'Druk (whatever the Dzongkha word for Scouts is) Tshogpa'. In regards to images in the article, perhaps contact with the BSA on the email listed on the website (ygcdhead@druknet.bt) would be beneficial; it is my experience the Bhutanese are more than happy to answer questions and will go the extra yard to assist in matters such as this (just going by my own experience in researching the Drukair article which I am currently redoing and expanding). -- Россавиа Диалог 11:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Is this really necessary and helpful? Chris included the template in the respective Asian and European articles yesterday (or created the necessary redirects), but I'm not quite sure if I'm happy with it: Most of the articles are mere disambiguitions (as Scouting in Austria or Scouting in Armenia) and are blown up by the template. -- jergen ( talk) 14:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Did you know that Chingachgook and Uncas have articles? I doubt that they deserve to be part of the Scouting WP, but should there be any linking between them and other OA pages? — Scouter Sig 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a standard, guideline or policy for gauging the notability of a local council camp? What is the minimal standard needed for a local council camp to be considered notable? Or are all local council camps just inheriantly notable? I tagged many articles for lacking of assertion of notability and/or lack of citing sources. I'm not saying these camps are not a notable subjects, but many of these articles (as they are written now) don't show or explain any notability. What makes a camp notable? ScoutCruft ( talk) 02:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I know little of the BSA situation in the USA, but here is a view from outside. In the UK there are articles for the four Scout Activity Centres. I think all other camp sites are only mentioned in articles on Scout Counties or Areas. In Australia I do not think there are any stand-alone articles. Camp sites are mentioned in the State and Territory articles. I have no thoughts on how you organise it in the USA. I thought you might like this information however. -- Bduke ( talk) 09:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
WP:SCOUTMOS says in part... "Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability is established through reliable sources. However, chapter information may be included in list articles as long as only verifiable information is included."
And:
"Local chapter articles should start as a section of the parent organization article. If the parent article grows to the point where it may be split to a new article, and notability can be demonstrated using the general notability guideline, then it can be split."
If these articles can't stand on their own, they should roll into the council article or secondarily the state article. Cruft definitely needs to come out. Everyone wants to write about their favorite camp, but no one works much on the state and council articles; which is a separate issue, albeit related. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Allow me to add a further comment and a question from outside the USA. How big are the Councils? I have taken the view that we go to one level of organisation below national. In Australia that is the State or Territory. This has lead to some reasonable articles, even for the Australian Capital Territory, although the very small Territories are a problem. In the UK, the Counties in England and Areas in Scotland and Wales are too small and there are too many. There are 7 in Northern Ireland, 12 in Wales, 31 in Scotland and 57 in England. This is far too many with the population covered being far too small. This leads to these articles being full of unsourced cruft; lists of Groups etc. Scotland has just reorganized to 7 regions and I am planning to merge the 31 Areas into 7 Region articles. In fact I have one in my sandbox when I get around to adding it. Unfortunately we do not seem to have any Project members from Scotland. The experience is that small levels of organization attract cruft. I intend in the process to remove the lists of Groups, etc. However, I am also adding them to the Scoutwiki with the lists. That is the place for them. I am probably going to need some support when I start wholesale removal of cruft. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems to put the USA Councils as about the same size as UK Counties/Areas or perhaps a bit larger. You may well attract the same kind of cruft that the UK articles attract, although you may have more editors watching them. The UK articles are hardly watched, but just attract edits from anons and others with an interest in only one of them. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
My father finally found the Christmas present he had for me, and it was actually pretty neat, a 1920s-1930s Eagle Scout ribbon, plus what we found may be an old BSA silver Scout hat badge. Are you folks familiar with the large old brass First Class badges? It looks like that, it was tarnished almost burnt-looking, he test-cleaned the back and it is silver, and he just lightly polished the front. Two questions-
Thanks, folks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 13:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Looking for information from that deleted article? Check out Deletionpedia. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I have started the process of merging the old area articles in Scotland to a smaller number of articles for the new Regions. See a longer discussion about it at Talk:The Scout Association#New Scotland Regions. Help is very much needed. I started that one new article on a sandbox weeks ago, and created the new articles and all the redirects today. -- Bduke ( talk) 04:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying to improve the Jamboree 2008 (Ireland) article, can anyone tell me the appropriate infobox to use, is there an infobox for Jamborees, much appreciated. Seanor3 ( talk) 16:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
If you have information to add to The Tobasco Donkeys, it is currently nominated for deletion, and at the moment, it meets the criteria for deletion for bands. — Scouter Sig 14:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
What is the view about the recent bold changes to country templates such as Template:Scouts UK Counties, Template:InteramericanScout and many others by User:Fred Bradstadt. See the question I raised at User talk:Fred Bradstadt#Scout country templates. -- Bduke ( talk) 11:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I have yet to see any virtue in the changes made by Fred Bradstadt. In particular for {{ Scouts UK Counties}} I would like to see it reverted back to what, as it happens, was my last version after I started the process of changing the Scotland articles. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Support Gadget850's proposal. JGHowes talk - 01:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted Fred's changes per this talk and am ok with Gadget850's changes. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Let's start afresh and reach a consensus here. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll accept the proposal by User:Gadget850 to have the group columns a uniform size. However, the reduction of the amount of text in the left column in {{ Scouts UK Counties}} is unclear and this raises another issue. The heading is "Scouting in the United Kingdom". It is nothing of the sort. It does not cover traditional Scouts or Guides. It is about the Scout Association. If the heading was changed to " The Scout Association", the reduced wording would be clear. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I have consulted with another editor - outside of Scouting - on the Scouting In Counties pages. Assuming good faith, I'm afraid that I cannot see that these new sites fit in with Wikipedia as they appear effectively nothing more than a list of branches of The Scout Association. For further information on this please see the section Wikipedia is not a soapbox on Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, notably the section on advertising. Even before they were amended, when open to Groups of all Associations, these pages were of suspect standard, and closing them to independent Groups has not helped in any way.
I suggest returning them to their original format, a new format that allows all Scouting in a County to be reported, or, alternatively, deleted as inappropriate. -- DiverScout ( talk) 18:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I was trying to make some userboxes that showed what rank a user was, but I couldn't find any pics of the rank badges. I will try to upload some stuff to the commons, but I would like everyone to help out. Thanks! Wyatt 915
While looking at the templates, there are some other things that need to be done:
* WOSM regions templates: retitle from "Members of the xxx Scout Region" to "xxx Scout Region of the World Organization of the Scout Movement"
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
We have discussed this in depth, now it is time to make some decisions on structure and levels. My proposals:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
"There will be no articles on geopolitical sub-regions; this includes US states, UK counties, Canadian provinces and territories, Australian territories and the like". Are you really saying that these hundreds of articles should be deleted? If not, what criteria do you have for inclusion? My own view, which I thought had consensus, was that articles for levels of organizations one below national for large associations would contain material that was notable. Of course many of them need cleaning up and lists of Troops/Groups/Units need removing (they need removing from some country articles like Singapore also). Please clarify, Ed. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Proposal has been refactored in response to comments, please review. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but with regard to the UK counties I think that you have accidentally created a problem. As I have indicated on the pages, I have consulted with another editor - outside of Scouting. Assuming good faith, I'm afraid that I cannot see that these new sites fit in with Wikipedia as they appear effectively nothing more than an advert for branches of The Scout Association. For further information on this please see the section Wikipedia is not a soapbox on Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, notably the section on advertising. Even when open to Groups of all Associations these pages were of suspect standard, and closing them to independent Groups and rebuilding them to reflect internal TSA boundaries has not helped in any way. This is especially when the TSA counties often share their name with the regional county and can easily mislead casual readers, and just removing the list of Groups will not help resolve this.
I suggest returning them to their original regional county format, although without the long lists of Groups, or, alternatively, that they are deleted as being inappropriate to Wikipedia. I cannot see any reason why the nationally accepted regional boundaries cannot be employed, with each TSA county serving them included as appropriate, with links to TSA county pages and District pages, and independent Associations provision included where required. This would allow users of Wikipedia to see what is happening in terms of Scouting in a county, without being accidentally mislead into thinking that only TSA Scouting is available to them in their area. -- DiverScout ( talk) 06:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Nothing will ever be perfect, and one size will not fit all - especially internationally - but using the recognised political boundaries within the UK is better than what is being created. If I type in "Scouting in Suffolk" because I want to know about Scout Groups in the county of Suffolk I am taken to "Suffolk Scout County" and only shown TSA Groups. What about the Rover Explorer Scout Group that operates there? Please also note that the Geopolitical map of Britain appears on each of these pages, which further encourages readers to believe that they are reading about something other than an internal Scout Association region.
DiverScout makes some good points. For example, the Geopolitical map of Britain should be removed because I think it refers to areas that are different from the SA Counties. Nevertheless, I think he is too swayed by East Anglia where the SA counties and the administrative counties are the same. This is not the case in other parts of the UK. I too am beginning to think that these articles should be deleted. We have to recognize that, while in earlier years we had keen experienced editors such as User:Horus Kol who worked on these County articles to improve them, we mostly no longer have good editors working on them. They get a lot of edits but they are mostly by IP editors who edit just one article and add or remove Groups or links to Group web sits. Mostly this is original research and the material is not encyclopedic. Nevertheless, there are some geographical regions of countries that are suitable for articles. In Australia for example, everything hinges around the States and Territories. The articles on Scouting in the States and Territories are not perfect but they do not contain cruft. Scouting in the Australian Capital Territory is a good example. I strongly support leaving these articles as covering everything including Guiding and not restricting them the Scouts Australia. I am surprised that the USA State articles are so bad. Like in Australia, the States are long established and their boundaries do not alter like those for Councils. Scout Counties etc. The emphasis should not be on organizational structure but on the history and the influence of Scouting on the community. I think the BSA folks should look at the State articles again. The UK is another matter. I think there could well be a good article on Scouting in Scotland (note currently redirected to Scouting in the United Kingdom) that covered both Scouting and Guiding. The SA in Scotland has its own Scout HQ and is own Scottish Commissioners for the sections and specialized duties. Wales is more combined with England, but nevertheless I think a good article could be written on Scouting in Wales (also a redirect). I am even more convinced that we merge the articles about SA Areas in Northern Ireland, but perhaps it should be to a single article Scouting in Northern Ireland rather than one on Scouting Ireland and one on the SA in NI (I'm not sure there are any BPSA Groups in NA). If these work out, we could perhaps have an article about Scouting in England. A major problem is that those talking here about the UK Counties are small in number. If we suddenly started deleting them, it might cause a bush fire. Maybe that would be a good idea. Finally, let me suggest that we should transwiki all these articles to the ScoutWiki. I think we owe it to Scouting and to all those editors who want lists of Groups etc. to do this. Also if and when we make changes we can point to the fact that the information is not lost. The general articles can have an external link to a page on ScoutWiki that links to all the area articles in a particular country.
I'd go for that. The ScoutWiki move would make a lot more sense, being a more specialist site. Your suggestion to relocate the Counties entries from here to there gets my support. -- DiverScout ( talk) 15:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
The issue is whether we transwiki (i.e move) the UK County articles to ScoutWiki or whether we copy them there. We do not need a consensus to copy them and in my opinion this should be done in order to keep the long lists of Scout Groups. When it is done we can then remove the lists on WP if we want to keep them or delete them if that is what is wanted. We need more editors to get consensus on whether to keep them or redirect them. I also do not favour lists as such, but the areas or counties could be included on articles on Scouting in Scotland, Wales, NI, or England. Note that NI is different both since they are already tagged for merge and the presence of many Groups of "Scouting Ireland" in NI. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
We are certainly not understanding each other well and I am still confused about your points. The current articles are about TSA Counties, so why is this unacceptable bias to TSA Scouting? That is what they are now about. Non-TSA content should be removed and should appear in other articles. The bias was in the earlier naming of Scouting in X, where X was actually a TSA County. You seem to be suggesting that we should use the current administrative counties. That would replace 12 articles about Scouting in Wales with 22 articles. That would simply be unmaintainable. We can not maintain 12. I remain unclear about what we should do. At this time, I am clear about only three things. First, we have too many (way too may) articles about Scouting in geographical areas of the UK. Second, I think we want some articles below general UK articles, particularly for the Scout Association, which is much bigger than any other organisation and therefore more notable as it is is noted by more sources. Third, there is no way, for the reasons that Kingbird gives, that articles that only have Scouting (not Guiding) in the title, can cover both Scouting and Guiding. I think we should stick with the articles on the small number of Guide Regions. How we work through this, I do not know. I think my first point is key. We need fewer articles. Here are some general thoughts:-
The other point is that we can not decide this between two of us, one from Australia and one from a non-TSA background!! We need to get more people involved. -- Bduke ( talk) 09:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Being down under, a lot of discussion often goes on while I am asleep. First, let me strongly agree with Ed that there was never any intent to remove material about traditional scouting from WP. The problem was that it was often in articles that clearly were about TSA Counties. I have a lot of sympathy for traditional scouting and have worked with an editor here in Oz who is now Chief Commissioner for the BPSA in Australia. I meet him a few weeks ago when he visited Melbourne. We should treat them seriously. However, they are less notable, not in the general sense of that word, but in the wikipedia sense that they are inevitably less noted in sources because there are less Groups. Getting good independent sources for the SA Counties is difficult. It is much harder for traditional scouting Groups. We have in general in our Scouting articles, too few third party sources. Second, on football clubs, I also agree with Ed. These articles are on individual clubs as ours are on individual associations. Not all clubs are notable enough for an article. I think we go down to level 11, whatever that really means. Third, I think Egel's suggestion of 11 English articles on the regions should be seriously considered. That might give 11 on England and one each on Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, covering everything about Scouting, not Guiding (on that point Kingbird is right, in that the term Scouting in UK is never considered to include Guiding). Are there regions in Scotland, other than the new TSA Regions, that we could use? -- Bduke ( talk) 01:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Thought I'd leave a gap, as it's a bit busy here! Egel's idea seems like a pretty good one to me, as the GGUK boundaries would reduce the number of pages to a more manageable level. I also agree with you that the pages should then be renamed "Scouting and Guiding in ..."
I still remain to be convinced, however, that having scouting in county searches being re-directed to point at limited content pages is appropriate to Wikipedia. It's not as if there are so many independent Groups that TSA need to be worried about the competition! :)
I still strongly feel that the option for a sub-title "Other Associations" to be tagged onto these pages would improve the notability of the pages, and raise the level of inclusivity to the point where those re-directs would again become valid. I have not yet seen any reasoned argument for not including them. --
DiverScout (
talk)
10:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have started this process by redirecting the Northern Ireland County articles to a general article Scouting in Northern Ireland that covers all Scouting (not Guiding) in NI. I do need to know however whether any traditional Scouting groups are in NI. I hope i have covered all the many redirects etc. -- Bduke ( talk) 05:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Very true, Brian, and I think we're possibly getting somewhere. Realistically using the 9 UK regions makes most sense than any other division, as this is understood by the general public - for whom Wikipedia is intended - and allows all Organisations to be represented. I cannot see how any part of our own internal organisation is especially notable for the public. If the TSA County and GGUK regions and counties are still felt to be worthy of their own pages, they can be linked from the articles on the administrative regions.
I'm afraid, Ed, that I still think that the priority for regional divisions ought to be one that the general public use every day and can understand, rather than internal boundaries of organisations.
I've done a bit more with the Norfolk page, just to see how it could work. Yes, I know that Norfolk is simpler than other regions, but it is where I live, so it is easiest for me to test the theory on. I recognise that the Norfolk page would vanish into, I presume, an East Anglia one were the idea to be developed. I really think that it could work. --
DiverScout (
talk)
13:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Hopefully Ed deciding to leave the discussion will not be used as a reason not to advance this important notability and POV issue. It certainly should not affect the issue of developing the UK pages, which is what is being discussed in this section. -- DiverScout ( talk) 14:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Please calm down. Remember that Ed is from the USA. I think he is saying that those editors who know more about Scouting in the UK should go ahead and try to get a consensus on what we do. I thought we were quite close. It is our job to do that. However it is a massive job. We can not do it over night, so what you call reporting COI will just confuse matters. Let me try to outline what I think should be done:-
Is anyone actually objecting to at least starting this program and seeing what response it brings out? -- Bduke ( talk) 02:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay. You can see, though, why what I thought you were saying was not likely to impress me? Sometimes it is hard thrashing out ideas on forums like this, as intent cannot be read into what is written.
Yes, let's try this. You're starting at the furthest point from where I am based, but if you start to build the pages, I'll be delighted to try to find and add details where I can. --
DiverScout (
talk)
22:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Since there have been some recent attempts to add multiple names to the founder field, I added an option to pluralize the label. Including |founders=yes
will now change the label from "Founder" to "Founders". --——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
13:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed South African Scout Association and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article and another WikiProject. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 ( talk) 00:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Talk:South_African_Scout_Association#GA_Sweeps_Review:_Pass — Rlevse • Talk • 09:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
AS a result of discussions at Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment, c-classs has now been added to the assessment scale. We need to update {{ WikiProject Scouting}} and other resources. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
While I still don't see much need for C-class, I have started making some of the updates as I'm sure someone will use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Discursive notes have been added to the <ref> tags. See Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Discursive notes. I'm helping to update {{ reflist}}. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot ( Disable) 20:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
this morning (UTC), User:Una Smith moved Scouting to Scouting Movement. I can understand the background, but this move was undiscussed and has a major impact on Wikipedia since at least 10,000 links point to Scouting. I have also a strong feeling that User:Una Smith is biased on the topic as can seen in his comment on [25]: trying to dab "Scouting" vs the movement, the woodcraft, etc. His scope of the the topic is smaller than that of the article and of the project, which covers also the Woodcraft movement. It is quite clear that most of the project's members have also biased views on Scouting.
Could one of our admins please move the article back until we reach consensus in an open discussion? -- jergen ( talk) 08:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
This illustrates a general point that has been nagging at the back of my brain for a while. The question is "How much should an article cover Scouting to be part of the Project?". I wondered about Fergie (singer), a pop singer, whose only connection to Scouting was that she was a Girl Scout. Anyway back to Willesley. This started off as an article essentially about the Scout Camp site. In 2006, we proposed a merge to what is now Leicestershire Scout County (The Scout Association). Only Chris and I contributed to the debate but the merge was carried out. Recently the article has been recreated and after some prompting from me developed into a nice article mainly about the place, with only a small mention of the camp site. There is no question that it should remain as an article. But should be in our Project? Currently it has the N/A tag on the talk page, which was put there when it was a redirect to the County article. Should that tag be removed or should it be changed to Start/Low maybe? Surely just a brief mention is not enough. The topic aught to be closely connected to Scouting. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Where possible, we need to add succession boxes, just as I did to Margaret Treloar. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Can someone help clean this up? An eager new editor has added a bunch of stuff, but the English is not great, and I simply don't have that long at the Internet, being new to Japan... Thanks all! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
According to J.S. Wilson, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon were active, can we get documentation and add this into the articles? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, apparently the queen of Denmark ( Ingrid of Sweden, don't ask me how) and the queen of Greece ( Frederica of Hanover, again, I know nothing of royalty…) were supporters. Anyone? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Two more-at the time of their engagement, respectively, Prince Jean was the Chief Scout of Luxembourg, and Princess Joséphine Charlotte was the Chief Guide of Belgium. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently, 2225 articles are assigned to this project, of which 328, or 14.7%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. -- B. Wolterding ( talk) 18:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
The ones flagged with our attention tag are in Category:Scouting articles needing attention. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.geocities.com/adiscacastrense/grupo3/Grupo3.htm please also get the penguin :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 09:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello I found this article on the web. The Legion of Frontiersboy Scouts 1907 - 1912 By J.C. Henley Early History of the Legion and how the Boy Scouts movement is linked to us [26] Maybe it is interesting for some of you. - Phips ( talk) 23:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
More Information on Francis Vane (mentoined in the article) can be found here: [27] Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 01:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
As we work on articles, it is becoming apparent that we need to share our resources. I have created a page where editors can list reference material available to them at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Resources (shortcut WP:S-RES). An editor can create a subpage in their userspace and transclude it to the resource page with a template. There is also a section where we can list online references. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
A discussion on date-autoformatting as been started on several of our articles:
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis/ The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 09:06, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Please help me to source this better, it's a useful image and I do not want it deleted. Thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 07:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Most of you are aware of the free images available on WikiCommons, but this also free content available on EnWikiSource (transcribed documents). see wikisource:Category:Scouting. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Country and region articles as a draft of a template to be transcluded on the talk page of some country and regional Scouting articles, to guide editors about what is not acceptable. It is not intended to go on all such talk pages. I am thinking particularly about the UK articles which I am slowly merging into articles about regions. While doing this I am removing all list of Groups and Group exernal links, and all reference to individuals such as District and County Commissioners. Having this on the talk page is something we can quickly point the fly-by editors who just add OR about their own unit. Initially I would add it to Scouting in Northern Ireland and Scouting in Wales which exist and then to Scouting in Greater London (see User:Bduke/Sandbox2) and Scouting in North West England (see User:Bduke/Sandbox3) which are nearly ready to be created (London more so than NW England). Once all the UK articles are done, we can then address other problem areas such as The Singapore Scout Association which is a real mess with its long list of every Group in the country. The template would be useful there when we start the process of educating the Singapore Scout editors, using the UK as an example. Please give you views on this; on its desirability, its content and the articles where it should be used. It is not yet ready to be added to any talk pages.-- Bduke ( talk) 00:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
the article about the German organization Catholic Scouts of Europe (KPE) would need a bit of work; currently it is not neutral and doesn't provide enough information about the organization. It is mainly a list of criticism made against the organization, and there is nothing about its pedagogy, uniform, number of groups, etc. I tried to put the {{ NPOV}} template on it but an user that had already refused to see that the article wasn't NPOV in the past did remove it again (see talk page).
Could anyone do anything, please ? I was looking for information about the KPE and was quite disappointed by the article's content :-(
BTW, I'm not aware of WP:EN's naming policies, but should not the name be changed to Katholische Pfadfinderschaft Europas ?
Thanks a lot. 90.56.194.66 ( talk) 13:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
XLinkBot is removing external links in headers. We have a lot of articles that do this so we need to watch our articles and fix them correctly. Of course the bot is correct. The cases I have seen are Scouting in Ontario, which I have not touched and a Scottish Area article where the bot effectively reverted an edit I was wondering about reverting anyway. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I've taken this article from this to this, in preps for filing it for FAC. I could you some help now with:
Any help is greatly appreciated. Hanna was a DESA and life-long Scouter. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure, if and how National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience meets any of the criterias of WP:Notability. The program was started this year and there are no sources except the provider.
This critics apply to nearly all entries in Category:Leadership training of the Boy Scouts of America which lists training programs down to council level. Even the well written White Stag Leadership Development Program is only used by the BSA; it is hard to understand for me as an European Scout the notability of the program outside of Scouting. -- jergen ( talk) 07:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
NYLT and NYLE are two different programs. I think National level programs can stand on their own. In no way should Wood Badge be merged into anything else. The council level ones we should probably look closer at. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
One of you that is good with WOSM sources, can we find a list of Bronze Wolf recipients? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
For this template, can we add parameters to ask for individual organizations in the template {{ ReqScoutemblem}} so that it can accept names, like {{ReqScoutemblem|Scout Organization of Foo|Scouts of Foo}} , like Template:Otheruses has? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 07:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone verify if this may be the same as the Bronze Wolf recipient? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 16:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I'm doing a project on Eric Arthur Blair (George Orwell) And i'm curious as to whether anyone knows if he was ever a scout?
Can anyone help me on this.
Much appreciated,
YiS,
Seán O'Reilly (Seanor3) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seanor3 ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
One of my favorite people, but I do not believe so. He was in a cadet corps. There is no mention in:
He makes a few mentions of "Boy Scouts" (use that in searching the index, not "Scout") in his essays. See the Penguin 4 volume series of his Collected Essays. There are mentions in volumes 1, 2 and 3. None indicate he was a member. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I have just come across a template that can be added to articles to indicate that material is available on another wiki that has an interwiki prefix. A possible use for us would be:-
The second parameter is the interwiki prefix. the first is just text. The third is an image which is required. Just for information. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I have been creating articles on Bronze Wolf awardees, where we already know something about them. I would say being a member of the World Scout Committee already makes one notable, but a week-old anonymous editor has tagged them for notability, and PROD-tagged two. Your thoughts? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 05:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I hate to point this out, Chris, but I'm cranky this morning. You would avoid the notability tags if you wrote less articles on these folks and spent the time demonstrating notability in the articles you do write rather than assuming it. We hardly ever have consensus across wikipedia that some category is always notable. Take the discussion on Schools, for example. You will never convince people outside our Project that "a Bronze Wolf and membership on the World Scout Committee' makes someone notable automatically. You have to show it in the article. You should also only write articles on these folks when you can flesh them out more than you have in most cases with sourced material. Have these people people been noticed by independent reliable sources? If not the articles will go to AfD and cause bother. Take care, mate. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
I have just removed some non-free logos from pages where they were absolutely not needed. Typically, non-free logos should only appear on the article of the organisation they represent (the specific scouting group, not some parent group) or anywhere that the logo itself is discussed in-depth. Please see the guidelines on non-free content, specifically the non-free content criteria, and it may also be worth reading the related guidelines on logos. The misuse is coming up because the logos are placed into any article where the group they represent is mentioned- this is simply not acceptable. For comparison, imagine if corporate logos were placed in every article that mentioned the corporation, album covers in every article that mentioned the album or paintings in every article that mentioned the artist. I appreciate that logos/badges may be widely circulated by the scouting community, but until they are released under a free license or into the public domain, they must be treated as non-free images. I am going to continue to tag/remove misused non-free images as I come across them, and I request that project members do the same, as well as being a little more careful about where the logos are placed. Note that any badges/logos that are in the public domain may be used whereever you wish. J Milburn ( talk) 14:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Here are my views:
How about everyone stop reverting while we discuss this for a bit. The Scouting project needs to operate within the general policies and guidelines, and we need to do a better job of understanding those policies and policing ourselves. On the other hand, discussing issues before making a batch of edits can lead to a better understanding of the issues. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Great. Another debate about what is and isn't Fair Use. Here's my two cents:
I think part of the problem is that Scouts love their badges and often trade them at Jamborees and other events. This is an activity that has never really attracted me, although I did once have a camp fire blanket that had a few badges on it. I suggest that leads people to think that a badge on an article is important, while in many cases, its inclusion has no point as it does not relate to the content in any way. My take, as another admin joining the debate, is that User:Rlevse and User:Gadget850 are essentially correct. However, I do think a lot of these images should be removed and we should have very strong arguments to retain imgaes of badges on articles. We should step over backwards to conform with the guidelines. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
From J Milburn: "If the logo itself is discussed in-depth, then an image of it is warranted, and meets the non-free content criteria." Can you give an good example of a logo discussed in-depth or some rules / guidelines, you believe that should be followed, about how deep a logo must be discussed to meet the non-free content criteria? Looking at J_Milburn's best articles list for for good examples, I get the impression that two lines about who designed it and the colour(s) used is an in-depth discussion. Analogue to that, should writing two or three lines about the reasons behind the colours and elements used be enough. -- Egel Reaction? 10:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
From Milburn's post on my talk page: "The images are going to need to be orphaned eventually anyway. Their use in these articles is simply not acceptable. J Milburn ( talk) 10:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)" He obviously is only willing to accept his interpretation of FU. So much for using discussion to solve things. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
From Milburn's post on my talk page: "We shouldn't err on the side of caution, but rather keep images that should not be there in articles so that they are not deleted? Fine. Whatever. Maybe I'm just insane. J Milburn ( talk) 10:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)" Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Let's start with writing clear criteria for the inclusions of logo's in the Scouting by country articles. Those are in the high risk category for being orphaned. This are my ideas:
A discussion can be in most cases two, three lines or more.
A problem are the organisations that use the logo of their supra-national organisation as their own logo, for example many Union Internationale des Guides et Scouts d'Europe members
I think it is best to keep the small organisations in a country as a section in the article instead of making a stub article. -- Egel Reaction? 12:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree that we should work to get some clear guidelines. My experience with images is limited, so I may not be able to help much. I come across them mostly as County/Region/Area/State badges or District badges. My first question to the image experts is this - are badges logos in the meaning of the term logo in the guidelines of fair use? Now take one example, the article Scouting in East of England, which I have recently put together by merging 6 UK County articles. That article has a few maps, one County badge image and one District article. There are 8 images that I was going to put into a gallery but have not done that yet. They were commented out in my draft in my user space to avoid them being deleted. They may now be orphaned. These are 8 out of 10 Districts in one County. This article mentions 74 different Districts and the 6 Counties. We could have 80 badge images on it. This way madness lies. I suggest for a start that one criteria is that we have no badges for Scout Districts. I am even dubious about the County badge. The badge itself is not mentioned. What is there to say about it? It is the Essex County badge. Chris, you uploaded it? What this article needs of course is some nice pictures of Scouts doing things. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, the County badges mentioned above all have explanations and show how they have been developed and relate to their area. There are probably too many District badges, but a limited number of examples showing how they relate to their districts would probably be of interest and I would argue that they serve to break up the body of the text for the reader and illustrate the article without risking entering child protection areas. Wikipedia encourages the use of illustrations on articles, and using these badges provides a safe way to illustrate. DiverScout ( talk) 13:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I will list discussions of image use on individual articles as I review them:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -
Wilson lists Joseph Bech as a "recent convert to Scouting", but I can't find anything to corroborate, does anyone know? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 13:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, this may be totally undoable and you all may hate me, but I just had the weird thought. Brian is collapsing the English county articles into nine major regional ones. Ed doesn't like the U.S. state articles, too many and too cumbersome. Would it make it worse if we collapse them into four regional ones? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I have recently found several GFDL Scout images on other Wikis that could be moved to Commons, but I have no idea how to say it in Arabic, Farsi and German. Is there a universal "Move to Commons" tag? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Before I posted these articles on World Jamborees, I edited the text from the original website, making stylistic changes, grammatical fixes and correcting figures and measurements. Because a bot picked up similarities between the two, it tagged 16th World Scout Jamboree as a copyvio, which it is not and never was. Now the bot-lackeys are deleting text from the article. I've given it another rewrite, please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I had Baden-Powell Award redlinked, as it is not just an Australian award, the UK, Singapore and South Africa also issue it. Can a proper article be written?
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
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I have reworked {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} to base it on the {{ infobox}} meta-template. See Template:Infobox WorldScouting/testcases for examples and comaprisons. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 02:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm all for being bold, but I would think that the merging of several hundred article by User:Kintetsubuffalo should maybe merit some discussion? It seems to be a rather unilateral decision by one user. Other thoughts? Justinm1978 ( talk) 04:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I understand you're being bold, but can I see where in the Scouting MoS that justifies your massive edits? To my knowledge, the project has talked about this before and decided to leave it alone. Justinm1978 ( talk) 03:58, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Please do not move a page to a title that is harder to follow or move it unilaterally while discussion about it is underway. We have some
guidelines to help with deciding what title is best for a subject. If you would like to experiment with page titles and moving, please use the
test Wikipedia. Thank you. Since you didn't respond and just chose to delete (your talk page, your rules, and I respect that), but I don't agree with what you're doing, so I'm asking you to stop and talk it out on the Project page.
Justinm1978 (
talk)
04:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Per The Scout Association of Hong Kong, as well as Scouting in Mainland China, there is a lot more Scouting activity going on in the PRC than in many other countries. Perhaps we can take it upon ourselves to move China into the have-Scouts-but-not-recognized category because they do in fact have some? We should state that WOSM counts China as not having Scouts but that they are also not good at updating their site. :) It just doesn't make any sense to be in the "no" category anymore, but I want your thoughts. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 16:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Here is a draft of image use in the context of Scouting:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
==Name of org==
[[Image:of org.jpg|thumb]]
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
?
Well, I have just completed the merge of all Area/Region articles in Scotland to Scouting in Scotland so the job is done. There are now similar articles for Wales, Northern Ireland and the 9 government regions of England. All County/Area/Region articles are now redirects. Of course all 9 articles need improvement. I have one question where I need guidance. Should Template:ScoutingUK be added to all these articles in place of Template:Scouts UK Counties? This was written by Ed, but I renamed it to cover all UK and not just the Scout Association. I am inclined to use this new one and perhaps delete the old one. What do others think? -- Bduke (Discussion) 03:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
After doing the UK, my attention is moving to Ireland. Please see the discussion at Talk:Scouting Ireland#Scouting Ireland Provinces about the six Province articles which are just a list of Scout Groups. I notice also that the very long list of Groups that was on The Singapore Scout Association has now been deleted. Are there any other articles with long unmaintainable list of Troops/Groups/Units? On the Template I will comment later. -- Bduke (Discussion) 09:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
This article has just had the lyrics removed (per WP:COPYRIGHT), an external link to a yuotube performance removed (again per WP:COPYRIGHT, a reference removed (per WP:RS) and then tagged as unreferenced. I agree that the lyrics are most likely a copyvio. I do not understand why we can link to something that is copyrighted. The reference was to a long quote from Ralph Reader, so it may be not third party, but I think it is reliable. What do others think? I am inclined to close this article down and add the material to Gang Show. -- Bduke (Discussion) 00:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
World Scout Jamboree has a list using non-free logos that need to be removed. The WOSM emblems are used elsewhere, but the WFIS emblems are used only in this article. One solution would be to create WFIS world jamboree (this appears to be the official name per the logos) with sections on each event that could include the emblem. Anyone want to take a stab at this? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Articles renamed; template titles expanded and links dabbed; another crisis averted. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to list this centrally. The titles of the WOSM and WAGGGS region articles do not meet WP guidelines. Propose rename:
I also propose that the associated templates be updated to include World Organization of the Scout Movement or World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts in the header. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Magyar Cserkészszövetség has just been blanked, which is totally over the top for something perceived but not proven to be a copyvio. Please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
As the ANI note indicated, I found several additional articles of concern. Since then, I have also now identified and blanked two more problematic articles pending verification of authorization to print the material. This blanking is standard for copyright concerns. The articles are:
In each case, the original edit of the article substantially duplicates the identified sources. In both cases, sufficient material remains in the articles from those sources to necessitate this verification. Once verification is received according to the standard permissions process, the article contents can be restored. Otherwise, material will need to be revised. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 01:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
PPÖ was created as a new disambiguation page. PPÖ is the abbreviation for Boy Scouts and Girl Guides of Austria ( Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs) Please keep an eye on it. Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 22:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I get around a lot in the outdoors and rarely treat water, but WD article had some good stuff.
These guys have irrationally convinced themselves that WD isn't a legitimate topic for a Wikipedia article.
As many of you are aware, since the very end of May, I have been involved in merging articles on Counties/Area/Scout Regions, in the UK and Ireland, to articles on wider geographical areas and at the same time removing the long lists of Groups that were cluttering so many articles. The experience has been rather strange and this has forced me to think about our Project more widely. The number of people who commented on the merge proposals was very small, but this does not mean that the articles to be merged were not being visited. They continued to attract editors who obviously noted something that they had personal knowledge of and they made edits to add, alter or remove information of Groups, without them noticing that the merge proposal would result in all such material being deleted. Since the new articles have been put into place (the first for Northern Ireland was in mid June) there has been no attempt to add any material on Groups. Totally outside my activities, the long list of Groups on the Singapore main article was removed and again there has been no attempt at reverting that edit.
I conclude that the number of active editors who want to develop these articles has declined and we are now in a time where the articles are attracting readers who make small edits to correct material or add material that they know about. For example, a good proportion of the edits to the new articles has been the addition of Gang Show information. These edits are often poorly written and almost always lack sources even when such sources are readily available. The question is this - how can we ensure adequate oversight of these articles?
The general situation is that we have a lot of good articles (FA or GA) and we have an excellent coverage of World Scouting. We are certainly a much better source of information on World Scouting than anything else. We still have gaps. For example we have better coverage of Scouting than Guiding. I use these terms deliberately because I have more knowledge of the articles on organisations and people from countries that use these terms. These gaps are however small. We are close to totally covering the content of the subject of this WikiProject. As I suggest above, we are moving into maintainance mode rather than creation mode. How can we do this well, keeping up the enthusiasm of project participants? I think we need to discuss this now, before we are totally in maintainance mode. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:16, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
(Edit conflict - I'm agreeing with Ed) I had intended to add a further point, but forgot. My activities on the UK and Irish articles has reduced the number of our articles by over 80. That makes them easier to watch. Many of the poor quality articles should be examined and merged into something else. We should be working to reduce the number of articles, while of course still writing new articles where they are really needed. -- Bduke (Discussion) 23:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I was there on the closing weekend, as a callow eight year old Wolf Cub. I was introduced to and shook hands with both Lady Baden-Powell and HRH Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who was wearing a Ranger Scout uniform. There is no mention in the article of his presence, but he was definitely there if a suitable reference can be found. 21stCenturyGreenstuff ( talk) 21:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
L. Ron Hubbard has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. Cirt ( talk) 09:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
The Yorkshire project has a neat sidebar that you can add to your user page. It is at {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Yorkshire/Sidebar}}. Click here Wikipedia:WikiProject Yorkshire/Sidebar to see it. Would be a good idea if we had something similar? It needs to be aligned to the right I think. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
I propose that we deprecate {{ Scouting Sections Infobox}} in favor of {{ Infobox WorldScouting}}. Only a few articles use Scouting Sections, and WorldScouting has had the Next and Previous fields for quite a while. Compare the infobox in Cub Scouts (The Scout Association) to Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America). --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
...has there been any progress in terms of removing all of the logos that are not absolutely necessary from scouting articles? I see that one that lingered on my watchlist, Scouting in Romania, still has a non-free gallery. Is this article an oversight, or has nothing been done? J Milburn ( talk) 18:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Jergen put an awful lot of (unexplained) work into splitting Russian articles into "in exile" and "Russia", and then piped them right back to Scouting in Russia. What is the purpose of that? Is someone planning on writing the articles? I'm not, and I see no need for the split thus. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone ever heard of this? http://www.masscouting.org/ Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
[35], [36], [37], [38], [39]-Yours in Scouting Phips ( talk) 21:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
When you find or create and tag new Scouting articles, please add categories to them. You can rate them too, but I don't mind rating them. 00:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Recently some new users have expressed that they do not feel Girl Scouts get equal time at this Project. That is both understandable and unavoidable. The vast bulk of Internet users are male and American, so unfortunately the Project has a BSA systemic bias it does not intend, just as the whole of the Wikipedia is pointed that way. However, we can be more proactive. I propose sending Image:Scout logo2.svg to the Graphic Lab to have the hollow trefoil filled in with green, so that both the boy emblem and the girl emblem have substance, bulk and texture. When I first designed the original, I didn't even think about that, I was trying to simply incorporate both emblems. Now this seems like a natural progression. Any thoughts? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Interesting the permutations one finds googling. http://www.eeiu.org/chapters/sevastopol/updates.html Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Do we have any sort of permission from WOSM, or how do we obtain it? I found this rogues' gallery http://www.scout.org/en/our_organisation/governance/world_committee .
I would like to standardize the way we do our navigational templates. Currently, some are mixed and a bit confusing. This is a general outline; specific changes would be discussed on the template talk pages. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree about Australia. Scouting is not so complex here that we need two templates. {{ Scouts Australia}} is fine, but it should be renamed to {{ Scouting in Australia}}. The sections are specifically called Scouts Australia Sections, and we can add the B-PSA sections as the only other organisation that exists, although on a small scale. We do need to address Guiding in Australia, but we just do not have an editor interested in it. I plan to have a review of all Oz articles soon, but I am tied up right now. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I am proposing some template naming standards:
This will help to clarify use; for example, if {{ Scouts Australia}} about the NSO or the country. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
--——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
10:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I expanded this from an absolutely non-notable section article, but upon thinking about it, there's really no way this can grow separately. What if I expanded it to Regions of the Boy Scouts of America, and included historic information about the original 12 and the later 6? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a new user page, based on User:Phaedriel's. Mine is in a common Scout color motif, green and gold. Let me know what you think of it all and if you have idea's on how to fill up the body. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Chris pushed for improvements to the logo:
If there are no objections, I will upload the new version over the old. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
{{
portal|Scouting|Scout logo2.svg}}
, but I am going to replace that with {{
Scoutingportal}} so we don't have to do image updates all the time. --——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
14:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)Where did Chris push for this? This is the first I heard of it. I like the old one, the one we currently have. For one thing, the green in the proposed one is too dark. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
WikiProject Scouting/Archive 2008 | |||
---|---|---|---|
| |||
Infoboxes aren't green, project tag isn't green, and this proposed design only has green part way around it. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
The image is used in the following templates:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I hesitate to get into this discussion, but these examples do seem to indicate that this use of the image promotes Scouting and underplays the Guiding part. The trefoil is hardly visible in many of them. May be we need to rethink both the images and the background to give equally weight to the symbols of both Scouting and Guiding. Apologies to the guys from the US, but I think in terms of the two movements as Scouts and Guides. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
"Scouting and Guiding as different facets of the same movement" PRECISELY. It all goes back to BP. They are not separate movements, just as BSA and TSA are not separate movements, just different facets of the crystal of the ONE movement that BP started. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
BP's colors were green and gold/yellow, that is what we should stick to, the source of it all. I simpler and more traditional the better. No corporate logo style, no cross so it won't allude to one religion. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
What do you think? I changed the green to the WAGGGS version and added the oval. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I like the one with the ivory background. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
How long should we let the poll run? It's been 10 days now. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
How long should we let the poll run? It's been 10 days now. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Portal: "While the top-level portals are linked to directly from the Main Page, individual portals are linked by placing {{ portal}} on a page. However, in the main namespace, these templates should not be placed in articles, but instead should be located at the top of an article's talk page, often due to being integrated into WikiProject banner templates."
We currently have the portal tag in the See also section of a lot of articles, and we have it in ((tl|Infobox WorldScouting)). Per the guideline, we should not use the portal in article pages, only on the talk page; we already have the portal in the project banner. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
See comment at: Wikipedia_talk:Layout#Wikipedia:Portal_conflict — Rlevse • Talk • 11:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, since my request for help on this one has gone unanswered for months, what do you think of the idea of moving it to Savez Izviđača Jugoslavije, its historical name for years, and tagging it as defunct? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
:That's unfair. You asked the question, I answered. Why the incivility?
Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 11:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
OK. Would this be correct. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Yugoslavia 1951–1995 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992 |
Croatia 1992 |
Macedonia 1992 |
Slovenia 1992 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Serbia and Montenegro 1995–2007 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Serbia 2007 |
Montenegro 2007 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'll try to explain some of the questions:
Hope this helps. Piet Kroonenberg needs about 50 pages in The Undaunted vol. 1 for the explanation of Yugoslav Scouting prior to 1994/95; I can't see how this will ever fit in a single article ;)
Some proposals concerning the articles:
Comments? I strongly recommend Piet's book as main source for the articles. -- jergen ( talk) 18:50, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
These two new stubs are not notable and are likely to be quickly deleted. I have transfered the material that is appropriate to Scouting in East of England#Essex and notified the editor. I await his response. I do not think anything more needs to be done for now. -- Bduke (Discussion) 23:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Per Kingbird, WAGGGS member associations are starting to make announcements about their 2010-2012 centenary celebrations. We should start an article like the Scouting one. For matching naming, I propose Guiding 2010 Centenary . Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:13, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Hawk Mountain Camp and Oreland Boy Scout Troop 1 have serious issues and may not meet true criteria for notability. Ed has been monitoring these, but a user keeps removing the housekeeping tags. I hate to be drastic, but would putting these up for AfD help to break the problem down? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 06:18, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
What do we do with Camp Onway? This is a former camp of the Yankee Clipper Council that is now owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I asked over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement if they wanted to take it over, but there has been no response. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I'm working with WP:OTRS. I'm a scouter myself, just I don't have much time to get involved with this project. However I'm here to confirm that we have permission to use the content of that site that relates to World Scouting.
Specifically from the email: "There is no copyright on any of the material. I release all the material to be used for the public good." You guys can consider that no rights reserved or public domain.
As the material on this site may affect more then one article I'm asking for ideas on how we can make it clear that using this material is not a copyright infringement, but it is clear why material is copied from that site to wikipedia should someone ask. We generally affix {{PermissionsOTRS|id=2008092910033111}} (that is the ticket ID for this ticket) to the talk page of articles with a short explaination of what the ticket covers. I've already told you guys what it covers, just ideas on how to make it clear on multiple articles are welcome.... perhaps a template "article encorporates text from blah blah" or similar is worth thought. —— nix eagle 19:54, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
As noted on the main page of the Project, Girl Scouts of Jamaica is at AfD, I have supported there the merge to Scouting in Jamaica. However, this raises some general issues about articles on individual National Scouting organisations, particularly for small countries. The Girl Guides Association of Jamaica is a stub. The Scout Association of Jamaica is rather longer although I suspect the history section may have been lifted from somewhere. Increasingly I have come to the view that we should just have one article and cover all NSOs in the country for situations like this where that is manageable. I would strongly urge that the name of the article should be "Scouting and Guiding in Jamaica" (in this case), where the term Guiding is used, as the term "Scouting" is not always understood to include "Guiding". This could also apply at State level in some countries. We are close to that in Australia, just needing to add about Guiding in each state article. -- Bduke (Discussion) 20:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Articles about small organizations put up a number of problems:
So what can we do with the stubs on small organizations:
Just my thoughts. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Merging to the larger article is prob best as we don't seem to be able to get enough people working on our articles for the long term to support the other options. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:58, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
We have a lot of copyright problems. Bduke mentions The Scout Association of Jamaica: The history section was recently copied from [40]. Yesterday, I came upon Scouts Australia, also with a copyvio since its very first version in December 2004. I think we need something like a taskforce to check all articles tagged with mid importance or higher to avoid further problems. This problem is far more pressing than the fair use of images: If we loose an image, we still have text informations; but if an article is deleted as copyvio, all information is lost. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm with you that "Scouting and Guiding in ..." is far better for most countries. But there is one problem: Actually we use Template:Europe topic ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) etc for navigation in most of the national overviews. These templates require a systematic approach to article names. If we change only a part of the articles to "Scouting and Guiding in ...", we have to stop using these templates or to create lots of redirects or to develop new templates of our own.
If I could decide, I'd move all articles to "Scouting and Guiding in ...", but I fear that this could be seen as unappropriate especially by US editors. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I do not think we can have a standard usage here. Where the term "Girl Scout" is used, "Scouting" is fine and covers everything, but the situation is quite different in countries that use the term Guide. This is particular true in those countries, mostly English speaking, that really have one dominant Scout organisation and one dominant Guide organisation. If you use the term "Scouting" in the UK or Australia, nobody, just nobody, would think you were including Guiding. It really would be a good idea to add information about Guiding to the State and Territory articles here in Australia, but it just can not happen if the names are still like "Scouting in Victoria" and not "Scouting and Guiding in Victoria". It would be misleading people. Some people too would think it was male dominance. It is one movement, but it not called the Scout Movement (if you want to include Guiding) in UK and Australia. It is called the Scout and Guide movement. Also we should not be driven by template structure. The template Jergen mentions already has trouble with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scouting in England is a redirect to Scouting in the United Kingdom. The others are articles in their own right on Scouting (not Guiding) in an EU approved region of the UK. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
{{
Europe topic|Scouting in}}
. I was already planning to propose a master Scout topic template to incorporate all of these.For the Girl Guides in the UK it is important that it is not one movement and that there are two movements. I remember the discussions, talks and votes on the ISGF World Conference in Vienna and the position of the Trefoil Guild UK.- Phips ( talk) 23:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I do not often criticize our coordinator but I do really think that you are looking at it from the US prospective where the term "Guide" is not used. Let us look at the articles from the UK that refer to real Scout/Guide cooperation. We have Scout and Guide Graduate Association, Student Scout and Guide Organisation, Oxford University Scout and Guide Group and National Scout and Guide Symphony Orchestra. I have been associated with the first three of these and I can tell you the Guides would have had our guts for garters if we had not included "and Guide" in the name. It is not a question of whether we are two movements or one, nor is it anything to do with history. It is simply that the term "Scouting" is not generally understood to also include "Guiding" in places where the original girls organisation is called Guides and not Scouts. We have to go along with how words are understood, even if it is messy with no one solution that fits all. I am not, BTW, agreeing with international articles such as Scouting being renamed. I think we can explain things in the article. However, we can not do this in articles like Scouting in Scotland if we included Guiding there and we should be renaming Scouting in the United Kingdom to Scouting and Guiding in the United Kingdom. The original girls organisation was never called Scouts. I think I am prepared to go along with Ed, but I'm too busy this week to look at all the ramifications of it. -- Bduke (Discussion) 03:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Somebody just uploaded a cool new picture to this article, and added that a previous editor had stuck in kind of a resume-can someone with a fresh pair of eyes help rewrite that stuff into an article? Thanks, Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 12:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
A number of templates have been created or merged recently. Please browse through WP:S-tmp to review these.
A very recent Scouting template is {{ Scout continent}}. This replaces {{ Europe topic}} and related templates, and will allow us to customize these as needed.
{{ Infobox WorldScouting}} now has name label parameters. These may be used for officially used translations or for alternative legal names.
I have also created a new quote template: {{ Quote2col}}. This allows for quoted content in two columns and should be useful where text may be presented in original and translated versions, such as Scout Promise.
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I have started listing problems with images at WP:SCOUT. I am doing a quick pass through a lot of articles and listing the issues as I see them. I am not checking the image rationales or sources. There are thousands of articles, so my hope is that my fellow editors can look in depth and resolve the issues at hand. Because of the way I am doing this, there will be false positives, and I will miss some issues. Let me categorize the issues I have seen:
I know this is not a popular subject, but we need to police ourselves. As concerned editors work these issues, simply strike them from the list. I have worked the country articles for Africa and Asia and will continue to slog through the rest. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
As far as I understand WP:NPOV applies also to the illustrations of articles. We should also bear in mind that an illustration is an eye catcher, it is one of the first things most of the users remark when calling up an article. This means that we can not go on and just remove only the images from articles like Scouting in France that are in use in other articles. If we would act this way, we would put undue weight on secondary or tertiary organizations, some of them non-notable in the terms of Wikipedia. -- jergen ( talk)
Does anyone know how to retrieve a cached copy of a website? The Zimbabwe Scouts seem to have a new logo, which I found at http://www.zimscouts.co.zw/ but did not save a copy, now it says the site is gone. Help? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone know when the badge in Image:--ScoutsChris3.jpg started to be used by Scouts Canada? Or who created it? If so, please do update the image page. Many thanks! Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay, we gave the polls 10 more days to get more member participation, with moderate results, it's coming up on that 10-day mark, how do we proceed? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:27, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Archives: | |
Okay, it's coming up on that 10-day mark, how do we proceed? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC) The image is used in the following templates:
Scout logo poll
I have no strong views between 2 and 4, which are clearly the front runners anyway. However, if 4 is selected I would prefer the green to be the same dark green as 2. -- Bduke (Discussion) 20:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Guide logo poll
|
|
Our lead coord, Rlevse, is running for arbitrator. Editors who wish to vote for or against candidates may do so at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008/Vote. Five persons will get 3-year spots on Arbcom (the normal term) plus two more who will get one-year spots due to early resignations. Posted in the same vein as the admin notices. JGHowes talk 21:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I was just wondering if I could get a reassessment on the importance level of Central New Jersey Council. I recently gave it a very significant clean up and believe that it could be upgraded from low to mid-level importance. Thanks for taking the time to look. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 06:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I only asked for a reassessment of the importance level because it's implied that such a request is allowed. In your "Requesting an assessment or re-assessment" section on the Assessment page, there is nothing that says importance levels will not be reassessed. I suggest you take that into consideration and think about clarifying that on the page. I also agree that you need to rethink your ratings system. If councils that do not have an impact on a national level are not reassessed into the mid-level importance, then I also suggest you clarify that as well. Currently, it says "articles on the regional or local level within all countries (councils, districts, counties, states, provinces, etc)" are part of the mid-level importance. Quite frankly, that whole page is rather unclear. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 20:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not telling you that it should be of higher importance or anything. I'm not here to try to change how you guys do things. What I'm saying is that your assessment information is incredibly misleading. In the chart on the assessment page next to Mid-level importance, it says "articles on the regional or local level within all countries (councils, districts, counties, states, provinces, etc)....fall into this category". You guys are now saying that councils actually fall into the low-level importance category. If that's true, then your chart is incorrect and requires clarification. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 02:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
While checking the classification of some of our project's articles, I came upon the following articles that were recreated after a previous merge:
Al Jazeera has recently published an article on the Imam al-Mahdi Scouts. I've tried to synthesize this information into the existing wikipedia article, but I'd be grateful if some other folks could run their eyes over what is a tricky topic. Kingbird ( talk) 03:51, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I came across something interesting this week, a park dedicated to Scouts (BSA). It was just established this year and is in
Snow Hill, NC. Sorry they're not too clear, but I only had my cell camera phone with me, not my digital camera. The three images are on commons at
,
,
. —
Rlevse •
Talk • 02:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--
jergen (
talk)
10:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Scout friends, I wish you all Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and lots of Good Camping in 2009. Greetings from Austria Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 13:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
We'll be in the Signpost on Wednesday, 2 Jan about 17:00 UTC, someone noticed us, be sure to read it, many of us get it, read it on my talk page if you like. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I have just been spending some time at the Scoutwiki network and in particular at the English Scoutwiki. This is a successor of the Scouting Wikia. I do not think we should see this as a rival. For a start, a lot of Wikipedia articles were moved over there some months ago. Some were not moved and I am in the process of moving the State and other articles from Australia, the County/Area articles from UK and scouting articles from New Zealand and other places in Oceania. We need to ensure that articles from WP do not degrade with time. It is aiming for a broader coverage than we have and welcomes articles down to Troop level. It is therefore a place to help us not bite newbies with their Troop articles, often badly written. We can help them to move the articles to ScoutWiki. In moving some articles from Australia I have already undone some merges we did earlier to non-notable articles. The English ScoutWiki is however very quite. It is smaller than the French and Finish ScoutWikis, probably because the main proponents, who are bureaucrats and administrators, come from these two countries. The English ScoutWiki is only slightly larger than the Dutch ScoutWiki. In the last three days I have only seen edits in "Recent changes" from one other editor, two anon editor (one vandalizing) and one of the admins. There are therefore a number of potential problems. I think the most pressing might be living people issues and copyright violation of both text and images. General vandalism does not seem to be common. Go over and take a look. You can comment on my talk page there. I have the same user name. -- Bduke ( talk) 05:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Over two years of part-time editing on Wikipedia has done more for my writing and debating skills than any of my formal courses. ScoutWiki does have its uses— local unit articles are certainly a good fit there. It might be a place to store reference material that is currently on troop websites and not suited to WikiSource. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:58, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, Ed, I agree with you. It is difficult to be at your best there. It is also a massive job to get it fixed up to something decent and not just a mass of articles. The categories, for example, are a mess. If it gets more English speaking editors it might improve. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Rlevse has served most successfully in this role since we reappointed him almost exactly a year ago. That discussion is now at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 3#Lead coordinator. Rlevse, after some discussion, stated "Thanks for everyone's support. I support a one year term with no limit on being reelected. Let's do it every Dec and close in early Jan, like we just did. Bduke is in charge of overseeing it. This will give folks a chance to openly voice concerns, if any exist. MILHIST does it this way and has had the same lead coord for some years but they still hold the election." I then closed the discussion with that being the process. However, we forgot to do this in early December (Alright, I forgot). I am therefore starting the process now by calling for expressions of interest or proposals for the coordinator for 2008. If someone other than Rlevse is appointed, the person concerned will be mentored by Rlevse and take over early in Febuary. I hope the process at the end of 2008 will be as described above. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the support everyone. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Need category help at Category_talk:Arrowman_Wikipedians — Rlevse • Talk • 21:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
An anon editor at Scouting in Ayrshire has indicated that in April 2008, eight new Scout Regions will replace 31 Scout Areas in Scotland. This will mean that 30 articles need to be merged into 8 (we had one - Orkneys - deleted). This will be a complex job. Can we build a team to think about it in advance? Any editors from Scotland? -- Bduke ( talk) 23:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it is time to retire {{ BSAseries}}. I created it well before {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} and {{ Scouting}} were developed— those templates are more universal. We should use {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} for organizations and events and {{ Infobox Person}} for biographies; {{ Scouting}} can be used with all of these. Further discussion on the talk page. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Keep, because it is doing a good job and we have a lot of articles on BSA topics. BSA is notable enough do have it´s own template.- Phips ( talk) 14:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
portal=yes
; I had to remove the background color else the logo disappears. More colors at
List of colors is someone has different ideas. --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
14:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)It's blue and gold, Cub colors, leaving out other programs. How about green/brown, outdoorsy colors of some kind? Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:02, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Pick something from list of colors. One problem is that all of the text elements in the box are links, thus light blue. Unless someone knows how to change the link color in the box, we can't change the font color, thus the background must be something light. Some examples:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 22:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I made the changes live—let me know of any issues. Changes: Default width=215px; width now variable to match other boxes; background = wheat; reorganized entries; portal is optional and off by default
In case you don't know it, you should connect to wiki via a secure connection, which has this address: [1], if nothing else it'll keep your username and pwd hidden from the bad guys. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
It's Jan 11 and I just got the Jan 2 SignPost that has us in it, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-01-02/WikiProject_report. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I think this article should go AfD and have proposed accordingly at Talk:Scouting songs. But, before initiating the process, do other Project participants have thoughts one way or the other? JGHowes talk - 15:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
From the BSA webmaster:
On January 14th, the web site http://www.scouting.org will move into a new publishing platform. You will see the benefits in enhanced navigation and search, e-mail and subscription services for every page, and a consistent look and feel throughout the site. The biggest change to Scouting.org will appear in the way that URL’s are handled. For example, the URL for the Boy Scouts program on Scouting.org has previously looked something like “ http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by” whereas the new URL for the Boy Scouts program will be “ http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts.aspx”. This new URL handling system will provide more intuitive URL’s and make it easier for councils and others to provide links back to Scouting.org.
So, it looks like we are going to have a bunch of busted links next week. This message only mentions the main www.scouting.org site and may not include other sites like olc.scouting.org or marketing.scouting.org. For links, see Special:Linksearch/www.scouting.org. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
UGH, unless they provide a table that cross refs the new links, we have to figure it out on our own. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
This is most unfortunate: According to his talk page, he has quit. (Please don't shoot the messenger!) - MBK 004 04:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone figure out why Rlevse quit yet? Man it was like poof! Find the turd that caused this.-- THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 05:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Rlevse making veiled threats about me to other users was the last straw. I have had some e-mail discussion with him, but I hope he is sleeping now and will reconsider when he wakes. Give him all the support you guys on his side of the pond can give. -- Bduke ( talk) 06:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I actually know Rlevse in the real world. I've spoken to him about this. He's very upset and frustrated. The ANI thread was the last straw, but there's more; but none of it is against the members of the Scouting Project. He loves this project as you know and its members. I don't know if he'll come back or not. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 14:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I have happy news to report. He has returned. - MBK 004 19:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
After much thought and deliberation I have decided to return. Many wikians contacted me by various means and I truly appreciate the support from all of them. Man, did I need that wiki break! I have learned from it and will use the experience to improve. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
You forgot to mention that your first act was going to be making me International Scouting Beermeister.-- THE FOUNDERS INTENT TALK 22:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
What is the template to use when our articles are cited or used in other media? Chris (クリス) ( talk) 20:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have to open this discussion when we have just received bad news about Rlevse, but a process has started that I have to follow through . A few days ago, I made a suggestion on Talk:Girl Guides about several pages connected with Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting ( Girl Guides, Girl Guide, Girl Scout, Girl Scouts, Girl Guide and Girl Scout, Girl Guiding, Girl Scouting, Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting) The current set-up is confusing and it's difficult to know where to put information. To summarise my proposal, I suggested that if it ends in -ing, it's about the movement. If it doesn't end in -ing, it's about the section/age group. All the GG and GS pages should be brought in line with this. I will admit with hindsight that my proposal could have been clearer. Be that as it may, one user supported the suggestion. Another user opposed the suggestion so that a centralised discussion could be had about the issue. While I am nervous about reporting the opposer's arguments myself, I think this user's view was that the suggestion I had made contravened Scouting Wikiproject's guidelines and so should be discussed. I think the crux of the problem revolves around how we cope with the article with plurals in their titles. The project guidelines at the top of this page say:
Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, etc - General summary pages that have see also links to other Scouting pages. Used to avoid to lead users to more indepth articles, no longer disambiguation pages due to all the confusion of different naming conventions. All other plurals redirect to the singular per Wikipedia standard, not to Scouting or a separate organization oriented article
I had not realised this was what the guideline said when I made my initial proposal. In response, I would point out that Boy Scouts is a disambig page and so doesn't fit the guideline given. I would also point out that an article that summarises another article is not something that Wikipedia is designed to cope with. I would be happy to modify my original suggestion so that the plurals are all disambig pages. Howeve r, this is still not what the guideline suggests and so I propose we should also change the guideline. Kingbird ( talk) 05:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I have been looking at this in detail, and I think we are trying to maintain universal articles that just do not work. Age Groups in Scouting and Guiding is a good article in that it lists the different national Scout organizations and their sections. On the other hand, articles like Beavers (Scouting) are not really that good; they try to give a generic overview of a subject that varies greatly from one organization to another; this particular subject is better covered by a number of articles on Beavers, Joeys, Cub Scouts and the like. A big chunk of these universal articles is given to each NSO.
My recommendation is to merge these; it looks like there really is no unique content that is not in the other articles. Articles on Scouting sections are:
There are some similar "universal" articles that should be examined as well:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I have some sympathy for Ed's view but I want to look at them in detail. I have a real problem, which I raised once before, about the Boy Scout article. Cub Scout may have the problems that Ed raises but it is about the section on an international basis. Therefore it has no problem with the fact that the Cub section has girls in some countries. Boy Scout, however, is not about the section. It is supposed to be about the "boy" in a way that no other article is. It therefore does have serious problems and confusion about the fact that girls are in the Scout section in some countries. If we keep the international articles on sections, then Boy Scout should be rewritten to be about the section, the original section of the Scouting movement, and no about the boy. I think there is a similar problem with the Guide article, but I need to check that. Probably more later. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
At this point, I'm unclear as to what various courses of action are being proposed. Kingbird ( talk) 21:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Article(s): Boy Scouts of America
Request: lighten for detail -- Chris (クリス) ( talk) 06:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Graphist opinion: Adjusting Brightness/contrast to see the mountain results in a washed out sky. Which can be fixed, although a close examination of the skyline might reveal some flaws. Most of which disappeared with downsampling (3000px to 1500). Sagredo ⊙☿♀♁♂♃♄ 21:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikia is a wiki farm stated by Jimmy Wales and associated with the Wikimedia Foundation. They host an assortment of wikis, including The Spanking Art Wiki. A fellow WP editor found that Image:ScoutFun.png, uploaded by by Rlevse, was being used in the Boy Scout article on Spanking Art (which is creepy in itself). After much discussion, [2] the Boy Scout page was chopped, Wales deleted the image from their site and the SA folks created a new policy on images.
Those of use involved in the discussions quickly realized that uploading photos of youth may not be a good idea. There is no way to control reuse once an image is released as free. I have drafted a guideline at User:Gadget850/Sandbox4; once this is polished, I will merge it into WP:S-IMG.
Wikipedia is not censored, but we do need to understand the ramifications outside of WP. There are so many laws and rules that may cover this that we cannot make specific rules of our own, just guidelines and recommendations.
We were lucky here in that Wikia had close ties to WP and the issue was resolved quickly; this may not hold true for other web sites.
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:38, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
WOSM's article on the admission of OSMK [4] uses large sections of Organization of the Scout Movement of Kazakhstan, but it neither mentions the Wikipedia as source nor the authors nor the GDFL. Does anybody know how this is handled on the English Wikipedia (I'm only firm with the German way...) and could take the necessary steps? -- jergen ( talk) 09:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
What about http://n2zgu.50megs.com/KAZ.htm? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Once again someone uninvolved with our Project decides they know what's best for us, and changes a whole bunch of our stuff without discussion. Once again they're our navigation boxes for the bottoms of articles. I have undone the unwelcome changes, and let the user know they are welcome to join the ongoing discussion here. We've done this before. As I understand it, very few of our navigation boxes are meant to be used with each other, and those that are, we've already made collapsible. Those that are meant to be standalone, we've left uncollapsible as they add to instead of distract from the article. I'm just tired of others unrelated trying to decide what's best for us, though I know that will be a perennial battle. Thoughts? Anyone is most welcome. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:24, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
state=plain
? --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
13:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
The reason for the edits was that I was randomly browsing around and encounterd Polish_Scouting_Association#External_links_and_references where three Scouting navigation boxes are stacked one on top of the other. So I decided to implement standardized navbox so it would look better (I am a very visual person). If your only complain is that they are not supposed to collapse, you can suppress that feature (as suggested by Gadget850). That way everyone would be happy, no? Renata ( talk) 16:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
{{
WOSM Regions}}
back to the navbox, but added the state parameter so that hide does not show. In my opinion, the use of {{
navbox}} creates a standard and makes it easier for editors to make minor updates without having to understand a bunch of code. If you don't like it, that's OK; just revert as it really should not be a big issue. If it does work for you, then we should update the other templates --—
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
17:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
So what's the outcome? Renata ( talk) 17:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
While i have no problem with Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Userboxes/Scouts Australia adding me to a category (Wikipedians interested in Scouting) but its for current and past members and i know a few past members like myself that aren't interested in scouts anymore like the category implies. Peachey88 ( Talk Page | Contribs) 09:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
|categories=no}}
.--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Found and uploaded some good PD images of B-P, W.W. Head, Dan Beard, and E.T. Seton in the George Grantham Bain collection at the Library of Congress. They are better and clearer than the Non-Free images previously used, which I've tagged {{ orfud}}. JGHowes talk - 18:19, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I took on the task of updating our navboxes in category:WikiProject Scouting templates to use the standard {{ navbox}}. The navbox template has a lot of options, so I think I did a pretty good job. There is room for a few tweaks:
Please let me know what you think on this. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
OK, let's look at what I did:
Now that these templates have been converted, further changes are relatively trivial Some possibilities:
So, let me know what you think on this. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 03:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I have done a test update of {{ Scouting}} using {{ Navigation with collapsible groups}}. Please see Template:Scouting/sandbox for the test version and Template:Scouting/testcases for examples. The new version differs from the old in that it uses named parameters. Leave commens on the template talk page. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I just selected the Feb 2008 portal items. This gets harder every month. It'd be a great help if people would nominate items/articles. To do so, just click on the "candidates" link in each section. Kudos to User:Kingbird who does a great job keeping up the current news section. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
A hybrid image has been created so there don't need to be two images of the same badge on the article, is this acceptable? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 02:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh Thou Ed Gadget the Template God, :) what do you think of standardizing {{ Scouting in Poland}} to be horizontal rather than vertical, meant to be placed at the bottom of articles rather than competing with our broader infobox, and standardized with our color scheme? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 22:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
This would be very easy to convert to a navbox, but it bears some further thought. Polish Scouting Association is already over-navigated with six navboxes. It looks like {{ ZHP}} has most of the links used in {{ Scouting in Poland}}. Both have a lot of redlinks in Polish , so I'm not sure what they all mean. Should we convert {{ Scouting in Poland}} from an infobox to a navbox as is, try to merge it with {{ ZHP}} or create another navbox with the extra info? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 22:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:ZHP has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I propose to create 2 new articles/documents on the Wikipedia Commons (not wikipedia itself); namely "Assembly of a mini survival kit" and "Tying the only knots you'll ever need". The latter would include no more than 8 knots which are helpful in survival situations and in low-tech construction (eg in the developing world). These knots are:
Some examples of the knots described
Example on how the "Assembly of a mini survival kit-article is to look like at Wikipedia Commons" should look like:
As these documents simplify the knots one should learn to the bare minimum, they are easier to remember/use in situations when they are needed. I am guessing that with these 2 documents, we may do allot of good for the developing world (humanitarian advantage) and help the scouting effort aswell.
Can I get support on this and is it possible the WikiProject Scouting community may undertake action to make the documents ?
Thanks in advance. KVDP ( talk) 12:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
As part of the 2007 Centenary, Nepal renamed Urkema Peak in the Himalayas to Baden-Powell Peak. [5] [6] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
On the Spanish Wikipedia, I found this character, translated crudely but in whole: "Prempeh was a head Ashanti that defended his ethnic group from the English invasion in 1893. He was captured and pardoned by Robert Baden-Powell and exiled later. His legacy is the left-handed Scout handshake."
The English Wiki has a space for him at
Does anyone else come up with background on the veracity of this? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 08:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I found the same in Walter Hansen (in German):Der Wolf, der nie schläft-Das abenteuerliche Leben des Lord Baden-Powell, published by Herder Freiburg-Basel-Vienna, 1985, p.162 (Gruß, Pfiff und System der kleinen Gruppe) and p.124 (Die Krobos:Geheimbund an der Goldküste). Also there p.126/27 Prepeh became founder member and president of Scouting in Ghana in 1919. The left hanshake was used by the Krobos a special unit of the Ashantis.- Phips ( talk) 22:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Infobox {{ EurScout}} is used only in WOSM-Eurasian Region. I suggest we deprecate this in favor of navbox {{ EurAsiaScout}}. The image should be reused in the body of the article similar to WOSM-European Region. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Please take a look at some general comments on all these articles that I have written at Talk:The Scout Association#County/Area articles. Comments there are welcome. There are are also issues there that affect similar articles in other parts of the world, but I want to concentrate on the UK at this time. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
{{ Scouting Sections Infobox}} is currently used in only a handful of articles— {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} has been extended to the same functionality. See Template:Infobox WorldScouting/testcases for examples, including how affiliation can be used for the parent section of a sub-section like Young Leaders. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 16:55, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
A mom in my troop grew up in Ottawa, Illinois, where William D. Boyce grew up and is buried. She sent me 7 photos of the grave site and I've put them on commons, see Image:BoyceGrave1.jpg though Image:BoyceGrave7.jpg. I made a category for Boyce on Commons too. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Viz Boy Scout Literature. Anyone care to do something to bring it up to scratch? -- Paularblaster ( talk) 00:56, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Gadget850, At least the ref should be saved, can you move it to the best place and then I'll delete the article. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
If you mean :
I have no idea where we would use it, nor would I use a reference I had not personally read. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I'll just delete it. Any admin can always retrieve it if we ever need it. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
It has been suggested that this article be removed from our project scope, and I would like to open the discourse to our members for wider input. POV pushers on both sides have finally found Imam al-Mahdi Scouts, I think it should be watchdogged, perhaps locked down tight until we do have all necessary facts, but I do not think removal from our project is in order.
It is precisely because they use the name and symbols that they have to fall under our scope. There have historically been and are now Scout groups, even within WOSM, that abuse the name and heritage, but because they use the name "Scout" and not "Pioneer" or something else, they are still within our purview. Like a tailbone, not sure what really to do with it, but there it is. We don't have to condone it to have it within our scope.
Our mission on our tags says "as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting," of starting to disinclude those distasteful to us if there is evidence that we should not.
My points are these
In short, if there were a Cheeseburger WikiProject, and if some place had something they called a "cheeseburger", but it was goat meat, and hummus instead of ketchup, and came with pickled radishes instead of fries, though that is nauseous, because enough of the basics are there, it should be included because it still has enough of the basics for its parentage to be recognized.
I agree it is a problematic article, but we should keep it under our purview lest those POV pushers claim things in Scouting's name and our Project's name that will blemish us. This way we can still control the content from going POV either direction, because we're the best WP going and we do care about what is out there.
Of course, these are just my views, trying to be impartial, please everyone let us know what you think! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The basic question here is, do they use the Scout method? Or are they more akin to Young Pioneers, Red Falcons and/or Hitler Youth? I don't know. — Rlevse • Talk • 04:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Gadget850 and Rlevse are correct, we need to find out better, if possible, just what the nature and affiliation of this organization is. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Take a look at The Dangerous Book for Boys, and let nobody tell you Scoutcraft and ideals are irrelevant in the 21st Century. :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 06:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello tomorrow is World Thinking Day or just Thinking Day, so I send my Greetings to you all out there in the whole world as a brother scout. With the best wishes for you, your family and your Scout group
Yours in Worldwide Brotherhood and Scouting- Phips ( talk) 22:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I would love to know how this one got its name. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 08:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Image:ZR250MillionScouts.jpg has been listed for deletion. Please visit Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2008 February 25#Image:ZR250MillionScouts.jpg and vote against the deletion of this image. This image was placed in the article specifically to show that an image was taken during a specific less-than-a-year period in which the nation was known as Zimbabwe Rhodesia from June 1 to December 12, 1979, preceded by Rhodesia and followed by Zimbabwe, and as such cannot be replaced. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 21:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm proposing that we take a look at the importance assessments of certain articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Assessment#Proposed update of Importance ratings. JGHowes talk - 20:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need {{ GSLAC Camp System}}? In the long run these damn camp articles are just going to be more and more problematic. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Will someone please keep an eye on, perhaps lock WOSM, the acronym? The disambig doesn't apparently suffice for some, so it keeps getting changed back from the redirect to our article. It is far more important than the radio station in Mississippi. Thanks Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 04:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Would someone knowledgeable look at Sea Scout (Ireland) and see what images should be retained? The images have no source and are incorrectly licensed, but some should probably not be used. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:02, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Just thought you should be aware of this userbox up for deletion since it's categorized under scouting users: CFIREUSA MfD. Dreadstar † 22:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I took the new hazardous weather course offered online by the BSA. [12] When I get to the hypothermia section, I noticed a familiar image— the ripple in the cover is unique. [13] Compare it to Image:Handbook.jpg. I checked with Scoutersig and verified that he had scanned the handbook image at home and uploaded it. Looks like we are starting to get noticed. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Dragonskin is a Venture Scout activity in New South Wales. User:Francis.conroy wrote an article on it at the end of Dragon Skin, which is a disambiguation page. I removed it from there and added it to his talk page, where I also suggested a much contracted rewrite free of POV, that might be added to Scouting in New South Wales. Please keep an eye on it. -- Bduke ( talk) 04:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
You BSA guys have made it at the Boy Scouts Cabal. Us non-USA folks do not get a look in. I'll have to be content with the Australian Cabal. -- Bduke ( talk) 21:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This user is a member of the Boy Scout Cabal and is experienced at tying up discussions and truculent users. |
![]() |
For personal amusement only. Anyone stuffing this into the userbox list is going to get the Scout Stave of Justice administered. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been adding them one or two at a time as I've been finding them, but today I took a look at all the biographies of astronauts here, and there are quite a few that are not tagged. When I get done tagging, should I add them to the section on the project main-page, or should I just list them here, because there is at least 10. - MBK 004 20:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't really know what they are doing with this, but NESA is sending out a mass-mailer this last week. It looks like they will be planning to publish a registry of some sort. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 23:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm looking at this list and thinking, is there any reason we are keeping the redlinks with no explanation on them, or may I delete them and snug this up? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Various tools keep quietly appearing under My Preferences > Gadgets. Some that I recommend enabling:
If you do a lot of image work, I also recommend:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
:-) I´m happy about that.- Phips ( talk) 15:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
is there a "move from Commons" tag, for images which are not appropriate there but which can be fairly used on the English Wikipedia? I am trying to save some images which were put on Commons but have no business there. Thanks. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 02:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Today I went to go check a local Girl Scout website, and it redirected me thus: "Thank you for visiting the Girl Scouts of Colorado, Western Slope Service Center website. As of October 1, 2007, we are joined together with our sister Girl Scouts from the state as one Girl Scouts of Colorado council, where we will build girls of courage, confidence and character who make the world a better place. To learn more about Girl Scouting on the Western Slope, please visit our new website at www.girlscoutsofcolorado.org." After I got over the mild diabetic shock from the writing style, ;) I wondered. Are such state-wide mergers going on throughout the GSUSA, and where would all this be documented? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 09:19, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
WOSM is considering the applications of four NSOs:
--— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU)
Following the recommendations of Resolution 2/05 adopted by the 37th World Scout Conference in Tunisia, the constitutive congress of the National Organization of Scouts of Ukraine (NOSU) was held on 27 March 2007. The congress, which gathered Scout representatives from most regions of Ukraine, approved the Constitution of NOSU and elected its governing bodies. This event was made possible thanks to efforts of three Scout associations (PLAST, SPOK and SICH) to work towards unification of Scouting in Ukraine in a new single NSO so as to be able to join WOSM.
Reference: [19] --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason why three of the major headings on the main project page are Computer Science, Relational algebra, and Economics? Why is "New Scouting Articles" a subsection of "Economics"? Why the disambig page tag floating in the middle of what is clearly not a disambig page? Did I miss something? Kingbird ( talk) 04:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone who knows more about the situation in Canada needs to keep an eye on this article. I reverted an anon's continued removal of materials, and semi-protected to get discussion on the talk page. It looks like the anon has come back using a little used username, but he is explaining his changes. However sources are needed. -- Bduke ( talk) 06:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
This article dealing with the Bhutan Scout Association has some POV problems which needs to be sorted out. As Bhutan is an independent sovereign nation, the sections on scouting in Tibet and Sikkim should be removed from this article, and placed within the respective Chinese and Indian scouting articles. The inclusion of Tibet on this article is especially troubling, due not only to it being unreferenced, but also because the PRC, with which Bhutan does not have any diplomatic relations, has embarked on a campaign to have Dzongkha renamed by firms such as Microsoft to 'Tibetan - Bhutanese' - whilst Bhutan and Tibet share similar cultures, they are different and distinct cultures all the same. Additionally, due to a border dispute between Bhutan and China, and the lack of formal diplomatic relations between the two, the Chinese actively lead incursions into Bhutan and build roads and the like in Bhutanese territory. Having Tibet and Sikkim on the Bhutan page is opening a big can of worms which I don't believe that Wikipedia should be opening, and hence they should be split out of the article altogether. On another note, the Bhutan Scouts Association as it is officially known (English is an official language of Bhutan) is overseen by the Scouts and Cultural Education Division of the Department of Youth, Culture and Sports, which comes under the umbrella of the Ministry of Education. The BSA has an online presence at http://www.education.gov.bt, with the specific pages at http://www.education.gov.bt/Departments/Dept_YCS/SCED/SCED.html, with a multitude of information, including various handbooks and guides which might be beneficial for this project and development of the Bhutan SA page. Note, the association page on the page is incorrect, the correct badge can be seen in documents such as the scoutmaster handbook which can be downloaded from their site. Anyway, if someone from within the project can look at the Tibet and Sikkim issue, and make any necessary changes; not being familiar with the setup of scout articles on WP, I am hesitant to do it myself. -- Россавиа Диалог 10:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
According to the official Bhutan site, it's Bhutan Scouts Association - with the 's', not "Scout" (without the 's'), so I've made the rename. I also think including Tibet and Sikkim is off the track. My suggestion to Chris is to take Egel's suggestion and make a topical article with the name Egel suggested or a similar name, leaving the Bhutan article strictly dealing with Bhutan. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I am a little surprised at the reply from Chris above, so I have made the decision to move the sections dealing with Tibet and Sikkim to the Chinese and Indian articles respectively. This stops the Bhutan article from being POV in this regard; if there is POV in the Chinese article, this is not reason to dump it in the Bhutan article, for the reasons I mentioned above. One thing I did forget to mention is that the Chinese government has done what they have done to Bhutan due to the ridiculous claim that Bhutan has territorial designs on Tibet (an incredulous claim considering Bhutan is still emerging from isolation, and doesn't have the ability to defend itself against Chinese incursions). I also removed speculation of Bhutan being involved in Tibet for 2 main reasons; 1) It is assuming that Tibet will (or is going) to gain independence from China, or that China will allow scouting in Tibet with outside assistance and 2) scouting in Bhutan is run under the Bhutan Ministry of Education, and whilst it comes under govermment, the Bhutan MoE is run on a tight budget as it is (with the country as a whole being a recipient of foreign development aid) and what money the Ministry does have would likely be spent on projects within Bhutan first. Whilst there may be more important POV issues to deal with, articles dealing with Bhutan are the poster child of why WP:BIAS was set up. I see that Rlevse has moved the article, thanks, the old name seemed somewhat problematic to me; not knowing Dzongkha, this is guestimation on my part, but Bhutan Scout Tshogpa is part Dzongkha-part English, and it most likely is not known as Bhutan Scout Tshogpa in Dzongkha - tshopga seems to mean party, group, and probably also association - the Dzongkha word for Bhutan is Druk Yul (commonly abbreviated to simply Druk in some settings, so the transliterated name would likely be 'Druk (whatever the Dzongkha word for Scouts is) Tshogpa'. In regards to images in the article, perhaps contact with the BSA on the email listed on the website (ygcdhead@druknet.bt) would be beneficial; it is my experience the Bhutanese are more than happy to answer questions and will go the extra yard to assist in matters such as this (just going by my own experience in researching the Drukair article which I am currently redoing and expanding). -- Россавиа Диалог 11:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Is this really necessary and helpful? Chris included the template in the respective Asian and European articles yesterday (or created the necessary redirects), but I'm not quite sure if I'm happy with it: Most of the articles are mere disambiguitions (as Scouting in Austria or Scouting in Armenia) and are blown up by the template. -- jergen ( talk) 14:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Did you know that Chingachgook and Uncas have articles? I doubt that they deserve to be part of the Scouting WP, but should there be any linking between them and other OA pages? — Scouter Sig 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there a standard, guideline or policy for gauging the notability of a local council camp? What is the minimal standard needed for a local council camp to be considered notable? Or are all local council camps just inheriantly notable? I tagged many articles for lacking of assertion of notability and/or lack of citing sources. I'm not saying these camps are not a notable subjects, but many of these articles (as they are written now) don't show or explain any notability. What makes a camp notable? ScoutCruft ( talk) 02:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I know little of the BSA situation in the USA, but here is a view from outside. In the UK there are articles for the four Scout Activity Centres. I think all other camp sites are only mentioned in articles on Scout Counties or Areas. In Australia I do not think there are any stand-alone articles. Camp sites are mentioned in the State and Territory articles. I have no thoughts on how you organise it in the USA. I thought you might like this information however. -- Bduke ( talk) 09:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
WP:SCOUTMOS says in part... "Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability is established through reliable sources. However, chapter information may be included in list articles as long as only verifiable information is included."
And:
"Local chapter articles should start as a section of the parent organization article. If the parent article grows to the point where it may be split to a new article, and notability can be demonstrated using the general notability guideline, then it can be split."
If these articles can't stand on their own, they should roll into the council article or secondarily the state article. Cruft definitely needs to come out. Everyone wants to write about their favorite camp, but no one works much on the state and council articles; which is a separate issue, albeit related. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Allow me to add a further comment and a question from outside the USA. How big are the Councils? I have taken the view that we go to one level of organisation below national. In Australia that is the State or Territory. This has lead to some reasonable articles, even for the Australian Capital Territory, although the very small Territories are a problem. In the UK, the Counties in England and Areas in Scotland and Wales are too small and there are too many. There are 7 in Northern Ireland, 12 in Wales, 31 in Scotland and 57 in England. This is far too many with the population covered being far too small. This leads to these articles being full of unsourced cruft; lists of Groups etc. Scotland has just reorganized to 7 regions and I am planning to merge the 31 Areas into 7 Region articles. In fact I have one in my sandbox when I get around to adding it. Unfortunately we do not seem to have any Project members from Scotland. The experience is that small levels of organization attract cruft. I intend in the process to remove the lists of Groups, etc. However, I am also adding them to the Scoutwiki with the lists. That is the place for them. I am probably going to need some support when I start wholesale removal of cruft. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems to put the USA Councils as about the same size as UK Counties/Areas or perhaps a bit larger. You may well attract the same kind of cruft that the UK articles attract, although you may have more editors watching them. The UK articles are hardly watched, but just attract edits from anons and others with an interest in only one of them. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
My father finally found the Christmas present he had for me, and it was actually pretty neat, a 1920s-1930s Eagle Scout ribbon, plus what we found may be an old BSA silver Scout hat badge. Are you folks familiar with the large old brass First Class badges? It looks like that, it was tarnished almost burnt-looking, he test-cleaned the back and it is silver, and he just lightly polished the front. Two questions-
Thanks, folks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 13:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Looking for information from that deleted article? Check out Deletionpedia. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I have started the process of merging the old area articles in Scotland to a smaller number of articles for the new Regions. See a longer discussion about it at Talk:The Scout Association#New Scotland Regions. Help is very much needed. I started that one new article on a sandbox weeks ago, and created the new articles and all the redirects today. -- Bduke ( talk) 04:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying to improve the Jamboree 2008 (Ireland) article, can anyone tell me the appropriate infobox to use, is there an infobox for Jamborees, much appreciated. Seanor3 ( talk) 16:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
If you have information to add to The Tobasco Donkeys, it is currently nominated for deletion, and at the moment, it meets the criteria for deletion for bands. — Scouter Sig 14:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
What is the view about the recent bold changes to country templates such as Template:Scouts UK Counties, Template:InteramericanScout and many others by User:Fred Bradstadt. See the question I raised at User talk:Fred Bradstadt#Scout country templates. -- Bduke ( talk) 11:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I have yet to see any virtue in the changes made by Fred Bradstadt. In particular for {{ Scouts UK Counties}} I would like to see it reverted back to what, as it happens, was my last version after I started the process of changing the Scotland articles. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Support Gadget850's proposal. JGHowes talk - 01:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted Fred's changes per this talk and am ok with Gadget850's changes. Sumoeagle179 ( talk) 22:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Let's start afresh and reach a consensus here. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I'll accept the proposal by User:Gadget850 to have the group columns a uniform size. However, the reduction of the amount of text in the left column in {{ Scouts UK Counties}} is unclear and this raises another issue. The heading is "Scouting in the United Kingdom". It is nothing of the sort. It does not cover traditional Scouts or Guides. It is about the Scout Association. If the heading was changed to " The Scout Association", the reduced wording would be clear. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I have consulted with another editor - outside of Scouting - on the Scouting In Counties pages. Assuming good faith, I'm afraid that I cannot see that these new sites fit in with Wikipedia as they appear effectively nothing more than a list of branches of The Scout Association. For further information on this please see the section Wikipedia is not a soapbox on Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, notably the section on advertising. Even before they were amended, when open to Groups of all Associations, these pages were of suspect standard, and closing them to independent Groups has not helped in any way.
I suggest returning them to their original format, a new format that allows all Scouting in a County to be reported, or, alternatively, deleted as inappropriate. -- DiverScout ( talk) 18:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I was trying to make some userboxes that showed what rank a user was, but I couldn't find any pics of the rank badges. I will try to upload some stuff to the commons, but I would like everyone to help out. Thanks! Wyatt 915
While looking at the templates, there are some other things that need to be done:
* WOSM regions templates: retitle from "Members of the xxx Scout Region" to "xxx Scout Region of the World Organization of the Scout Movement"
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
We have discussed this in depth, now it is time to make some decisions on structure and levels. My proposals:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
"There will be no articles on geopolitical sub-regions; this includes US states, UK counties, Canadian provinces and territories, Australian territories and the like". Are you really saying that these hundreds of articles should be deleted? If not, what criteria do you have for inclusion? My own view, which I thought had consensus, was that articles for levels of organizations one below national for large associations would contain material that was notable. Of course many of them need cleaning up and lists of Troops/Groups/Units need removing (they need removing from some country articles like Singapore also). Please clarify, Ed. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Proposal has been refactored in response to comments, please review. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but with regard to the UK counties I think that you have accidentally created a problem. As I have indicated on the pages, I have consulted with another editor - outside of Scouting. Assuming good faith, I'm afraid that I cannot see that these new sites fit in with Wikipedia as they appear effectively nothing more than an advert for branches of The Scout Association. For further information on this please see the section Wikipedia is not a soapbox on Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, notably the section on advertising. Even when open to Groups of all Associations these pages were of suspect standard, and closing them to independent Groups and rebuilding them to reflect internal TSA boundaries has not helped in any way. This is especially when the TSA counties often share their name with the regional county and can easily mislead casual readers, and just removing the list of Groups will not help resolve this.
I suggest returning them to their original regional county format, although without the long lists of Groups, or, alternatively, that they are deleted as being inappropriate to Wikipedia. I cannot see any reason why the nationally accepted regional boundaries cannot be employed, with each TSA county serving them included as appropriate, with links to TSA county pages and District pages, and independent Associations provision included where required. This would allow users of Wikipedia to see what is happening in terms of Scouting in a county, without being accidentally mislead into thinking that only TSA Scouting is available to them in their area. -- DiverScout ( talk) 06:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Nothing will ever be perfect, and one size will not fit all - especially internationally - but using the recognised political boundaries within the UK is better than what is being created. If I type in "Scouting in Suffolk" because I want to know about Scout Groups in the county of Suffolk I am taken to "Suffolk Scout County" and only shown TSA Groups. What about the Rover Explorer Scout Group that operates there? Please also note that the Geopolitical map of Britain appears on each of these pages, which further encourages readers to believe that they are reading about something other than an internal Scout Association region.
DiverScout makes some good points. For example, the Geopolitical map of Britain should be removed because I think it refers to areas that are different from the SA Counties. Nevertheless, I think he is too swayed by East Anglia where the SA counties and the administrative counties are the same. This is not the case in other parts of the UK. I too am beginning to think that these articles should be deleted. We have to recognize that, while in earlier years we had keen experienced editors such as User:Horus Kol who worked on these County articles to improve them, we mostly no longer have good editors working on them. They get a lot of edits but they are mostly by IP editors who edit just one article and add or remove Groups or links to Group web sits. Mostly this is original research and the material is not encyclopedic. Nevertheless, there are some geographical regions of countries that are suitable for articles. In Australia for example, everything hinges around the States and Territories. The articles on Scouting in the States and Territories are not perfect but they do not contain cruft. Scouting in the Australian Capital Territory is a good example. I strongly support leaving these articles as covering everything including Guiding and not restricting them the Scouts Australia. I am surprised that the USA State articles are so bad. Like in Australia, the States are long established and their boundaries do not alter like those for Councils. Scout Counties etc. The emphasis should not be on organizational structure but on the history and the influence of Scouting on the community. I think the BSA folks should look at the State articles again. The UK is another matter. I think there could well be a good article on Scouting in Scotland (note currently redirected to Scouting in the United Kingdom) that covered both Scouting and Guiding. The SA in Scotland has its own Scout HQ and is own Scottish Commissioners for the sections and specialized duties. Wales is more combined with England, but nevertheless I think a good article could be written on Scouting in Wales (also a redirect). I am even more convinced that we merge the articles about SA Areas in Northern Ireland, but perhaps it should be to a single article Scouting in Northern Ireland rather than one on Scouting Ireland and one on the SA in NI (I'm not sure there are any BPSA Groups in NA). If these work out, we could perhaps have an article about Scouting in England. A major problem is that those talking here about the UK Counties are small in number. If we suddenly started deleting them, it might cause a bush fire. Maybe that would be a good idea. Finally, let me suggest that we should transwiki all these articles to the ScoutWiki. I think we owe it to Scouting and to all those editors who want lists of Groups etc. to do this. Also if and when we make changes we can point to the fact that the information is not lost. The general articles can have an external link to a page on ScoutWiki that links to all the area articles in a particular country.
I'd go for that. The ScoutWiki move would make a lot more sense, being a more specialist site. Your suggestion to relocate the Counties entries from here to there gets my support. -- DiverScout ( talk) 15:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
The issue is whether we transwiki (i.e move) the UK County articles to ScoutWiki or whether we copy them there. We do not need a consensus to copy them and in my opinion this should be done in order to keep the long lists of Scout Groups. When it is done we can then remove the lists on WP if we want to keep them or delete them if that is what is wanted. We need more editors to get consensus on whether to keep them or redirect them. I also do not favour lists as such, but the areas or counties could be included on articles on Scouting in Scotland, Wales, NI, or England. Note that NI is different both since they are already tagged for merge and the presence of many Groups of "Scouting Ireland" in NI. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
We are certainly not understanding each other well and I am still confused about your points. The current articles are about TSA Counties, so why is this unacceptable bias to TSA Scouting? That is what they are now about. Non-TSA content should be removed and should appear in other articles. The bias was in the earlier naming of Scouting in X, where X was actually a TSA County. You seem to be suggesting that we should use the current administrative counties. That would replace 12 articles about Scouting in Wales with 22 articles. That would simply be unmaintainable. We can not maintain 12. I remain unclear about what we should do. At this time, I am clear about only three things. First, we have too many (way too may) articles about Scouting in geographical areas of the UK. Second, I think we want some articles below general UK articles, particularly for the Scout Association, which is much bigger than any other organisation and therefore more notable as it is is noted by more sources. Third, there is no way, for the reasons that Kingbird gives, that articles that only have Scouting (not Guiding) in the title, can cover both Scouting and Guiding. I think we should stick with the articles on the small number of Guide Regions. How we work through this, I do not know. I think my first point is key. We need fewer articles. Here are some general thoughts:-
The other point is that we can not decide this between two of us, one from Australia and one from a non-TSA background!! We need to get more people involved. -- Bduke ( talk) 09:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Being down under, a lot of discussion often goes on while I am asleep. First, let me strongly agree with Ed that there was never any intent to remove material about traditional scouting from WP. The problem was that it was often in articles that clearly were about TSA Counties. I have a lot of sympathy for traditional scouting and have worked with an editor here in Oz who is now Chief Commissioner for the BPSA in Australia. I meet him a few weeks ago when he visited Melbourne. We should treat them seriously. However, they are less notable, not in the general sense of that word, but in the wikipedia sense that they are inevitably less noted in sources because there are less Groups. Getting good independent sources for the SA Counties is difficult. It is much harder for traditional scouting Groups. We have in general in our Scouting articles, too few third party sources. Second, on football clubs, I also agree with Ed. These articles are on individual clubs as ours are on individual associations. Not all clubs are notable enough for an article. I think we go down to level 11, whatever that really means. Third, I think Egel's suggestion of 11 English articles on the regions should be seriously considered. That might give 11 on England and one each on Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, covering everything about Scouting, not Guiding (on that point Kingbird is right, in that the term Scouting in UK is never considered to include Guiding). Are there regions in Scotland, other than the new TSA Regions, that we could use? -- Bduke ( talk) 01:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Thought I'd leave a gap, as it's a bit busy here! Egel's idea seems like a pretty good one to me, as the GGUK boundaries would reduce the number of pages to a more manageable level. I also agree with you that the pages should then be renamed "Scouting and Guiding in ..."
I still remain to be convinced, however, that having scouting in county searches being re-directed to point at limited content pages is appropriate to Wikipedia. It's not as if there are so many independent Groups that TSA need to be worried about the competition! :)
I still strongly feel that the option for a sub-title "Other Associations" to be tagged onto these pages would improve the notability of the pages, and raise the level of inclusivity to the point where those re-directs would again become valid. I have not yet seen any reasoned argument for not including them. --
DiverScout (
talk)
10:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have started this process by redirecting the Northern Ireland County articles to a general article Scouting in Northern Ireland that covers all Scouting (not Guiding) in NI. I do need to know however whether any traditional Scouting groups are in NI. I hope i have covered all the many redirects etc. -- Bduke ( talk) 05:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Very true, Brian, and I think we're possibly getting somewhere. Realistically using the 9 UK regions makes most sense than any other division, as this is understood by the general public - for whom Wikipedia is intended - and allows all Organisations to be represented. I cannot see how any part of our own internal organisation is especially notable for the public. If the TSA County and GGUK regions and counties are still felt to be worthy of their own pages, they can be linked from the articles on the administrative regions.
I'm afraid, Ed, that I still think that the priority for regional divisions ought to be one that the general public use every day and can understand, rather than internal boundaries of organisations.
I've done a bit more with the Norfolk page, just to see how it could work. Yes, I know that Norfolk is simpler than other regions, but it is where I live, so it is easiest for me to test the theory on. I recognise that the Norfolk page would vanish into, I presume, an East Anglia one were the idea to be developed. I really think that it could work. --
DiverScout (
talk)
13:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Hopefully Ed deciding to leave the discussion will not be used as a reason not to advance this important notability and POV issue. It certainly should not affect the issue of developing the UK pages, which is what is being discussed in this section. -- DiverScout ( talk) 14:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Please calm down. Remember that Ed is from the USA. I think he is saying that those editors who know more about Scouting in the UK should go ahead and try to get a consensus on what we do. I thought we were quite close. It is our job to do that. However it is a massive job. We can not do it over night, so what you call reporting COI will just confuse matters. Let me try to outline what I think should be done:-
Is anyone actually objecting to at least starting this program and seeing what response it brings out? -- Bduke ( talk) 02:01, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay. You can see, though, why what I thought you were saying was not likely to impress me? Sometimes it is hard thrashing out ideas on forums like this, as intent cannot be read into what is written.
Yes, let's try this. You're starting at the furthest point from where I am based, but if you start to build the pages, I'll be delighted to try to find and add details where I can. --
DiverScout (
talk)
22:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Since there have been some recent attempts to add multiple names to the founder field, I added an option to pluralize the label. Including |founders=yes
will now change the label from "Founder" to "Founders". --——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
13:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed South African Scout Association and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article and another WikiProject. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 ( talk) 00:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Talk:South_African_Scout_Association#GA_Sweeps_Review:_Pass — Rlevse • Talk • 09:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
AS a result of discussions at Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment, c-classs has now been added to the assessment scale. We need to update {{ WikiProject Scouting}} and other resources. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
While I still don't see much need for C-class, I have started making some of the updates as I'm sure someone will use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Discursive notes have been added to the <ref> tags. See Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Discursive notes. I'm helping to update {{ reflist}}. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot ( Disable) 20:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
this morning (UTC), User:Una Smith moved Scouting to Scouting Movement. I can understand the background, but this move was undiscussed and has a major impact on Wikipedia since at least 10,000 links point to Scouting. I have also a strong feeling that User:Una Smith is biased on the topic as can seen in his comment on [25]: trying to dab "Scouting" vs the movement, the woodcraft, etc. His scope of the the topic is smaller than that of the article and of the project, which covers also the Woodcraft movement. It is quite clear that most of the project's members have also biased views on Scouting.
Could one of our admins please move the article back until we reach consensus in an open discussion? -- jergen ( talk) 08:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
This illustrates a general point that has been nagging at the back of my brain for a while. The question is "How much should an article cover Scouting to be part of the Project?". I wondered about Fergie (singer), a pop singer, whose only connection to Scouting was that she was a Girl Scout. Anyway back to Willesley. This started off as an article essentially about the Scout Camp site. In 2006, we proposed a merge to what is now Leicestershire Scout County (The Scout Association). Only Chris and I contributed to the debate but the merge was carried out. Recently the article has been recreated and after some prompting from me developed into a nice article mainly about the place, with only a small mention of the camp site. There is no question that it should remain as an article. But should be in our Project? Currently it has the N/A tag on the talk page, which was put there when it was a redirect to the County article. Should that tag be removed or should it be changed to Start/Low maybe? Surely just a brief mention is not enough. The topic aught to be closely connected to Scouting. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Where possible, we need to add succession boxes, just as I did to Margaret Treloar. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Can someone help clean this up? An eager new editor has added a bunch of stuff, but the English is not great, and I simply don't have that long at the Internet, being new to Japan... Thanks all! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
According to J.S. Wilson, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon were active, can we get documentation and add this into the articles? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:22, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, apparently the queen of Denmark ( Ingrid of Sweden, don't ask me how) and the queen of Greece ( Frederica of Hanover, again, I know nothing of royalty…) were supporters. Anyone? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Two more-at the time of their engagement, respectively, Prince Jean was the Chief Scout of Luxembourg, and Princess Joséphine Charlotte was the Chief Guide of Belgium. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently, 2225 articles are assigned to this project, of which 328, or 14.7%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. -- B. Wolterding ( talk) 18:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
The ones flagged with our attention tag are in Category:Scouting articles needing attention. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.geocities.com/adiscacastrense/grupo3/Grupo3.htm please also get the penguin :) Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 09:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello I found this article on the web. The Legion of Frontiersboy Scouts 1907 - 1912 By J.C. Henley Early History of the Legion and how the Boy Scouts movement is linked to us [26] Maybe it is interesting for some of you. - Phips ( talk) 23:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
More Information on Francis Vane (mentoined in the article) can be found here: [27] Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 01:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
As we work on articles, it is becoming apparent that we need to share our resources. I have created a page where editors can list reference material available to them at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Resources (shortcut WP:S-RES). An editor can create a subpage in their userspace and transclude it to the resource page with a template. There is also a section where we can list online references. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
A discussion on date-autoformatting as been started on several of our articles:
Dear fellow contributors
MOSNUM no longer encourages date autoformatting, having evolved over the past year or so from the mandatory to the optional after much discussion there and elsewhere of the disadvantages of the system. Related to this, MOSNUM prescribes rules for the raw formatting, irrespective of whether or not dates are autoformatted. MOSLINK and CONTEXT are consistent with this.
There are at least six disadvantages in using date-autoformatting, which I've capped here:
Removal has generally been met with positive responses by editors. I'm seeking feedback about this proposal to remove it from the main text (using a script) in about a week's time on a trial basis/ The original input formatting would be seen by all WPians, not just the huge number of visitors; it would be plain, unobtrusive text, which would give greater prominence to the high-value links. Tony (talk) 09:06, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Please help me to source this better, it's a useful image and I do not want it deleted. Thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 07:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Most of you are aware of the free images available on WikiCommons, but this also free content available on EnWikiSource (transcribed documents). see wikisource:Category:Scouting. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:10, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I have created Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Country and region articles as a draft of a template to be transcluded on the talk page of some country and regional Scouting articles, to guide editors about what is not acceptable. It is not intended to go on all such talk pages. I am thinking particularly about the UK articles which I am slowly merging into articles about regions. While doing this I am removing all list of Groups and Group exernal links, and all reference to individuals such as District and County Commissioners. Having this on the talk page is something we can quickly point the fly-by editors who just add OR about their own unit. Initially I would add it to Scouting in Northern Ireland and Scouting in Wales which exist and then to Scouting in Greater London (see User:Bduke/Sandbox2) and Scouting in North West England (see User:Bduke/Sandbox3) which are nearly ready to be created (London more so than NW England). Once all the UK articles are done, we can then address other problem areas such as The Singapore Scout Association which is a real mess with its long list of every Group in the country. The template would be useful there when we start the process of educating the Singapore Scout editors, using the UK as an example. Please give you views on this; on its desirability, its content and the articles where it should be used. It is not yet ready to be added to any talk pages.-- Bduke ( talk) 00:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hello,
the article about the German organization Catholic Scouts of Europe (KPE) would need a bit of work; currently it is not neutral and doesn't provide enough information about the organization. It is mainly a list of criticism made against the organization, and there is nothing about its pedagogy, uniform, number of groups, etc. I tried to put the {{ NPOV}} template on it but an user that had already refused to see that the article wasn't NPOV in the past did remove it again (see talk page).
Could anyone do anything, please ? I was looking for information about the KPE and was quite disappointed by the article's content :-(
BTW, I'm not aware of WP:EN's naming policies, but should not the name be changed to Katholische Pfadfinderschaft Europas ?
Thanks a lot. 90.56.194.66 ( talk) 13:29, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
XLinkBot is removing external links in headers. We have a lot of articles that do this so we need to watch our articles and fix them correctly. Of course the bot is correct. The cases I have seen are Scouting in Ontario, which I have not touched and a Scottish Area article where the bot effectively reverted an edit I was wondering about reverting anyway. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I've taken this article from this to this, in preps for filing it for FAC. I could you some help now with:
Any help is greatly appreciated. Hanna was a DESA and life-long Scouter. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure, if and how National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience meets any of the criterias of WP:Notability. The program was started this year and there are no sources except the provider.
This critics apply to nearly all entries in Category:Leadership training of the Boy Scouts of America which lists training programs down to council level. Even the well written White Stag Leadership Development Program is only used by the BSA; it is hard to understand for me as an European Scout the notability of the program outside of Scouting. -- jergen ( talk) 07:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
NYLT and NYLE are two different programs. I think National level programs can stand on their own. In no way should Wood Badge be merged into anything else. The council level ones we should probably look closer at. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:30, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
One of you that is good with WOSM sources, can we find a list of Bronze Wolf recipients? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
For this template, can we add parameters to ask for individual organizations in the template {{ ReqScoutemblem}} so that it can accept names, like {{ReqScoutemblem|Scout Organization of Foo|Scouts of Foo}} , like Template:Otheruses has? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 07:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone verify if this may be the same as the Bronze Wolf recipient? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 16:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I'm doing a project on Eric Arthur Blair (George Orwell) And i'm curious as to whether anyone knows if he was ever a scout?
Can anyone help me on this.
Much appreciated,
YiS,
Seán O'Reilly (Seanor3) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seanor3 ( talk • contribs) 16:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
One of my favorite people, but I do not believe so. He was in a cadet corps. There is no mention in:
He makes a few mentions of "Boy Scouts" (use that in searching the index, not "Scout") in his essays. See the Penguin 4 volume series of his Collected Essays. There are mentions in volumes 1, 2 and 3. None indicate he was a member. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I have just come across a template that can be added to articles to indicate that material is available on another wiki that has an interwiki prefix. A possible use for us would be:-
The second parameter is the interwiki prefix. the first is just text. The third is an image which is required. Just for information. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
I have been creating articles on Bronze Wolf awardees, where we already know something about them. I would say being a member of the World Scout Committee already makes one notable, but a week-old anonymous editor has tagged them for notability, and PROD-tagged two. Your thoughts? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 05:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I hate to point this out, Chris, but I'm cranky this morning. You would avoid the notability tags if you wrote less articles on these folks and spent the time demonstrating notability in the articles you do write rather than assuming it. We hardly ever have consensus across wikipedia that some category is always notable. Take the discussion on Schools, for example. You will never convince people outside our Project that "a Bronze Wolf and membership on the World Scout Committee' makes someone notable automatically. You have to show it in the article. You should also only write articles on these folks when you can flesh them out more than you have in most cases with sourced material. Have these people people been noticed by independent reliable sources? If not the articles will go to AfD and cause bother. Take care, mate. -- Bduke ( talk) 00:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
I have just removed some non-free logos from pages where they were absolutely not needed. Typically, non-free logos should only appear on the article of the organisation they represent (the specific scouting group, not some parent group) or anywhere that the logo itself is discussed in-depth. Please see the guidelines on non-free content, specifically the non-free content criteria, and it may also be worth reading the related guidelines on logos. The misuse is coming up because the logos are placed into any article where the group they represent is mentioned- this is simply not acceptable. For comparison, imagine if corporate logos were placed in every article that mentioned the corporation, album covers in every article that mentioned the album or paintings in every article that mentioned the artist. I appreciate that logos/badges may be widely circulated by the scouting community, but until they are released under a free license or into the public domain, they must be treated as non-free images. I am going to continue to tag/remove misused non-free images as I come across them, and I request that project members do the same, as well as being a little more careful about where the logos are placed. Note that any badges/logos that are in the public domain may be used whereever you wish. J Milburn ( talk) 14:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Here are my views:
How about everyone stop reverting while we discuss this for a bit. The Scouting project needs to operate within the general policies and guidelines, and we need to do a better job of understanding those policies and policing ourselves. On the other hand, discussing issues before making a batch of edits can lead to a better understanding of the issues. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 17:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Great. Another debate about what is and isn't Fair Use. Here's my two cents:
I think part of the problem is that Scouts love their badges and often trade them at Jamborees and other events. This is an activity that has never really attracted me, although I did once have a camp fire blanket that had a few badges on it. I suggest that leads people to think that a badge on an article is important, while in many cases, its inclusion has no point as it does not relate to the content in any way. My take, as another admin joining the debate, is that User:Rlevse and User:Gadget850 are essentially correct. However, I do think a lot of these images should be removed and we should have very strong arguments to retain imgaes of badges on articles. We should step over backwards to conform with the guidelines. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
From J Milburn: "If the logo itself is discussed in-depth, then an image of it is warranted, and meets the non-free content criteria." Can you give an good example of a logo discussed in-depth or some rules / guidelines, you believe that should be followed, about how deep a logo must be discussed to meet the non-free content criteria? Looking at J_Milburn's best articles list for for good examples, I get the impression that two lines about who designed it and the colour(s) used is an in-depth discussion. Analogue to that, should writing two or three lines about the reasons behind the colours and elements used be enough. -- Egel Reaction? 10:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
From Milburn's post on my talk page: "The images are going to need to be orphaned eventually anyway. Their use in these articles is simply not acceptable. J Milburn ( talk) 10:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)" He obviously is only willing to accept his interpretation of FU. So much for using discussion to solve things. — Rlevse • Talk • 10:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
From Milburn's post on my talk page: "We shouldn't err on the side of caution, but rather keep images that should not be there in articles so that they are not deleted? Fine. Whatever. Maybe I'm just insane. J Milburn ( talk) 10:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)" Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Let's start with writing clear criteria for the inclusions of logo's in the Scouting by country articles. Those are in the high risk category for being orphaned. This are my ideas:
A discussion can be in most cases two, three lines or more.
A problem are the organisations that use the logo of their supra-national organisation as their own logo, for example many Union Internationale des Guides et Scouts d'Europe members
I think it is best to keep the small organisations in a country as a section in the article instead of making a stub article. -- Egel Reaction? 12:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I agree that we should work to get some clear guidelines. My experience with images is limited, so I may not be able to help much. I come across them mostly as County/Region/Area/State badges or District badges. My first question to the image experts is this - are badges logos in the meaning of the term logo in the guidelines of fair use? Now take one example, the article Scouting in East of England, which I have recently put together by merging 6 UK County articles. That article has a few maps, one County badge image and one District article. There are 8 images that I was going to put into a gallery but have not done that yet. They were commented out in my draft in my user space to avoid them being deleted. They may now be orphaned. These are 8 out of 10 Districts in one County. This article mentions 74 different Districts and the 6 Counties. We could have 80 badge images on it. This way madness lies. I suggest for a start that one criteria is that we have no badges for Scout Districts. I am even dubious about the County badge. The badge itself is not mentioned. What is there to say about it? It is the Essex County badge. Chris, you uploaded it? What this article needs of course is some nice pictures of Scouts doing things. -- Bduke ( talk) 22:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, the County badges mentioned above all have explanations and show how they have been developed and relate to their area. There are probably too many District badges, but a limited number of examples showing how they relate to their districts would probably be of interest and I would argue that they serve to break up the body of the text for the reader and illustrate the article without risking entering child protection areas. Wikipedia encourages the use of illustrations on articles, and using these badges provides a safe way to illustrate. DiverScout ( talk) 13:21, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I will list discussions of image use on individual articles as I review them:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk -
Wilson lists Joseph Bech as a "recent convert to Scouting", but I can't find anything to corroborate, does anyone know? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 13:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Okay, this may be totally undoable and you all may hate me, but I just had the weird thought. Brian is collapsing the English county articles into nine major regional ones. Ed doesn't like the U.S. state articles, too many and too cumbersome. Would it make it worse if we collapse them into four regional ones? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I have recently found several GFDL Scout images on other Wikis that could be moved to Commons, but I have no idea how to say it in Arabic, Farsi and German. Is there a universal "Move to Commons" tag? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Before I posted these articles on World Jamborees, I edited the text from the original website, making stylistic changes, grammatical fixes and correcting figures and measurements. Because a bot picked up similarities between the two, it tagged 16th World Scout Jamboree as a copyvio, which it is not and never was. Now the bot-lackeys are deleting text from the article. I've given it another rewrite, please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I had Baden-Powell Award redlinked, as it is not just an Australian award, the UK, Singapore and South Africa also issue it. Can a proper article be written?
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.
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I have reworked {{ Infobox WorldScouting}} to base it on the {{ infobox}} meta-template. See Template:Infobox WorldScouting/testcases for examples and comaprisons. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 02:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm all for being bold, but I would think that the merging of several hundred article by User:Kintetsubuffalo should maybe merit some discussion? It seems to be a rather unilateral decision by one user. Other thoughts? Justinm1978 ( talk) 04:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I understand you're being bold, but can I see where in the Scouting MoS that justifies your massive edits? To my knowledge, the project has talked about this before and decided to leave it alone. Justinm1978 ( talk) 03:58, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Please do not move a page to a title that is harder to follow or move it unilaterally while discussion about it is underway. We have some
guidelines to help with deciding what title is best for a subject. If you would like to experiment with page titles and moving, please use the
test Wikipedia. Thank you. Since you didn't respond and just chose to delete (your talk page, your rules, and I respect that), but I don't agree with what you're doing, so I'm asking you to stop and talk it out on the Project page.
Justinm1978 (
talk)
04:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Per The Scout Association of Hong Kong, as well as Scouting in Mainland China, there is a lot more Scouting activity going on in the PRC than in many other countries. Perhaps we can take it upon ourselves to move China into the have-Scouts-but-not-recognized category because they do in fact have some? We should state that WOSM counts China as not having Scouts but that they are also not good at updating their site. :) It just doesn't make any sense to be in the "no" category anymore, but I want your thoughts. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 16:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Here is a draft of image use in the context of Scouting:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 19:56, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
==Name of org==
[[Image:of org.jpg|thumb]]
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
?
Well, I have just completed the merge of all Area/Region articles in Scotland to Scouting in Scotland so the job is done. There are now similar articles for Wales, Northern Ireland and the 9 government regions of England. All County/Area/Region articles are now redirects. Of course all 9 articles need improvement. I have one question where I need guidance. Should Template:ScoutingUK be added to all these articles in place of Template:Scouts UK Counties? This was written by Ed, but I renamed it to cover all UK and not just the Scout Association. I am inclined to use this new one and perhaps delete the old one. What do others think? -- Bduke (Discussion) 03:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
After doing the UK, my attention is moving to Ireland. Please see the discussion at Talk:Scouting Ireland#Scouting Ireland Provinces about the six Province articles which are just a list of Scout Groups. I notice also that the very long list of Groups that was on The Singapore Scout Association has now been deleted. Are there any other articles with long unmaintainable list of Troops/Groups/Units? On the Template I will comment later. -- Bduke (Discussion) 09:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
This article has just had the lyrics removed (per WP:COPYRIGHT), an external link to a yuotube performance removed (again per WP:COPYRIGHT, a reference removed (per WP:RS) and then tagged as unreferenced. I agree that the lyrics are most likely a copyvio. I do not understand why we can link to something that is copyrighted. The reference was to a long quote from Ralph Reader, so it may be not third party, but I think it is reliable. What do others think? I am inclined to close this article down and add the material to Gang Show. -- Bduke (Discussion) 00:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
World Scout Jamboree has a list using non-free logos that need to be removed. The WOSM emblems are used elsewhere, but the WFIS emblems are used only in this article. One solution would be to create WFIS world jamboree (this appears to be the official name per the logos) with sections on each event that could include the emblem. Anyone want to take a stab at this? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
Articles renamed; template titles expanded and links dabbed; another crisis averted. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to list this centrally. The titles of the WOSM and WAGGGS region articles do not meet WP guidelines. Propose rename:
I also propose that the associated templates be updated to include World Organization of the Scout Movement or World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts in the header. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Magyar Cserkészszövetség has just been blanked, which is totally over the top for something perceived but not proven to be a copyvio. Please help. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
As the ANI note indicated, I found several additional articles of concern. Since then, I have also now identified and blanked two more problematic articles pending verification of authorization to print the material. This blanking is standard for copyright concerns. The articles are:
In each case, the original edit of the article substantially duplicates the identified sources. In both cases, sufficient material remains in the articles from those sources to necessitate this verification. Once verification is received according to the standard permissions process, the article contents can be restored. Otherwise, material will need to be revised. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 01:58, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
PPÖ was created as a new disambiguation page. PPÖ is the abbreviation for Boy Scouts and Girl Guides of Austria ( Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs) Please keep an eye on it. Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 22:43, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I get around a lot in the outdoors and rarely treat water, but WD article had some good stuff.
These guys have irrationally convinced themselves that WD isn't a legitimate topic for a Wikipedia article.
As many of you are aware, since the very end of May, I have been involved in merging articles on Counties/Area/Scout Regions, in the UK and Ireland, to articles on wider geographical areas and at the same time removing the long lists of Groups that were cluttering so many articles. The experience has been rather strange and this has forced me to think about our Project more widely. The number of people who commented on the merge proposals was very small, but this does not mean that the articles to be merged were not being visited. They continued to attract editors who obviously noted something that they had personal knowledge of and they made edits to add, alter or remove information of Groups, without them noticing that the merge proposal would result in all such material being deleted. Since the new articles have been put into place (the first for Northern Ireland was in mid June) there has been no attempt to add any material on Groups. Totally outside my activities, the long list of Groups on the Singapore main article was removed and again there has been no attempt at reverting that edit.
I conclude that the number of active editors who want to develop these articles has declined and we are now in a time where the articles are attracting readers who make small edits to correct material or add material that they know about. For example, a good proportion of the edits to the new articles has been the addition of Gang Show information. These edits are often poorly written and almost always lack sources even when such sources are readily available. The question is this - how can we ensure adequate oversight of these articles?
The general situation is that we have a lot of good articles (FA or GA) and we have an excellent coverage of World Scouting. We are certainly a much better source of information on World Scouting than anything else. We still have gaps. For example we have better coverage of Scouting than Guiding. I use these terms deliberately because I have more knowledge of the articles on organisations and people from countries that use these terms. These gaps are however small. We are close to totally covering the content of the subject of this WikiProject. As I suggest above, we are moving into maintainance mode rather than creation mode. How can we do this well, keeping up the enthusiasm of project participants? I think we need to discuss this now, before we are totally in maintainance mode. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:16, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
(Edit conflict - I'm agreeing with Ed) I had intended to add a further point, but forgot. My activities on the UK and Irish articles has reduced the number of our articles by over 80. That makes them easier to watch. Many of the poor quality articles should be examined and merged into something else. We should be working to reduce the number of articles, while of course still writing new articles where they are really needed. -- Bduke (Discussion) 23:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I was there on the closing weekend, as a callow eight year old Wolf Cub. I was introduced to and shook hands with both Lady Baden-Powell and HRH Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, who was wearing a Ranger Scout uniform. There is no mention in the article of his presence, but he was definitely there if a suitable reference can be found. 21stCenturyGreenstuff ( talk) 21:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
L. Ron Hubbard has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Articles are typically reviewed for one week. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here. Cirt ( talk) 09:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
The Yorkshire project has a neat sidebar that you can add to your user page. It is at {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Yorkshire/Sidebar}}. Click here Wikipedia:WikiProject Yorkshire/Sidebar to see it. Would be a good idea if we had something similar? It needs to be aligned to the right I think. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:11, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
I propose that we deprecate {{ Scouting Sections Infobox}} in favor of {{ Infobox WorldScouting}}. Only a few articles use Scouting Sections, and WorldScouting has had the Next and Previous fields for quite a while. Compare the infobox in Cub Scouts (The Scout Association) to Boy Scouting (Boy Scouts of America). --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
...has there been any progress in terms of removing all of the logos that are not absolutely necessary from scouting articles? I see that one that lingered on my watchlist, Scouting in Romania, still has a non-free gallery. Is this article an oversight, or has nothing been done? J Milburn ( talk) 18:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Jergen put an awful lot of (unexplained) work into splitting Russian articles into "in exile" and "Russia", and then piped them right back to Scouting in Russia. What is the purpose of that? Is someone planning on writing the articles? I'm not, and I see no need for the split thus. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:24, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone ever heard of this? http://www.masscouting.org/ Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 03:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
[35], [36], [37], [38], [39]-Yours in Scouting Phips ( talk) 21:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
When you find or create and tag new Scouting articles, please add categories to them. You can rate them too, but I don't mind rating them. 00:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Recently some new users have expressed that they do not feel Girl Scouts get equal time at this Project. That is both understandable and unavoidable. The vast bulk of Internet users are male and American, so unfortunately the Project has a BSA systemic bias it does not intend, just as the whole of the Wikipedia is pointed that way. However, we can be more proactive. I propose sending Image:Scout logo2.svg to the Graphic Lab to have the hollow trefoil filled in with green, so that both the boy emblem and the girl emblem have substance, bulk and texture. When I first designed the original, I didn't even think about that, I was trying to simply incorporate both emblems. Now this seems like a natural progression. Any thoughts? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Interesting the permutations one finds googling. http://www.eeiu.org/chapters/sevastopol/updates.html Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:52, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Do we have any sort of permission from WOSM, or how do we obtain it? I found this rogues' gallery http://www.scout.org/en/our_organisation/governance/world_committee .
I would like to standardize the way we do our navigational templates. Currently, some are mixed and a bit confusing. This is a general outline; specific changes would be discussed on the template talk pages. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree about Australia. Scouting is not so complex here that we need two templates. {{ Scouts Australia}} is fine, but it should be renamed to {{ Scouting in Australia}}. The sections are specifically called Scouts Australia Sections, and we can add the B-PSA sections as the only other organisation that exists, although on a small scale. We do need to address Guiding in Australia, but we just do not have an editor interested in it. I plan to have a review of all Oz articles soon, but I am tied up right now. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I am proposing some template naming standards:
This will help to clarify use; for example, if {{ Scouts Australia}} about the NSO or the country. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
--——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
10:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I expanded this from an absolutely non-notable section article, but upon thinking about it, there's really no way this can grow separately. What if I expanded it to Regions of the Boy Scouts of America, and included historic information about the original 12 and the later 6? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I have a new user page, based on User:Phaedriel's. Mine is in a common Scout color motif, green and gold. Let me know what you think of it all and if you have idea's on how to fill up the body. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Chris pushed for improvements to the logo:
If there are no objections, I will upload the new version over the old. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 14:02, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
{{
portal|Scouting|Scout logo2.svg}}
, but I am going to replace that with {{
Scoutingportal}} so we don't have to do image updates all the time. --——
Gadget850 (Ed)
talk -
14:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)Where did Chris push for this? This is the first I heard of it. I like the old one, the one we currently have. For one thing, the green in the proposed one is too dark. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
WikiProject Scouting/Archive 2008 | |||
---|---|---|---|
| |||
Infoboxes aren't green, project tag isn't green, and this proposed design only has green part way around it. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
The image is used in the following templates:
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 10:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I hesitate to get into this discussion, but these examples do seem to indicate that this use of the image promotes Scouting and underplays the Guiding part. The trefoil is hardly visible in many of them. May be we need to rethink both the images and the background to give equally weight to the symbols of both Scouting and Guiding. Apologies to the guys from the US, but I think in terms of the two movements as Scouts and Guides. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
"Scouting and Guiding as different facets of the same movement" PRECISELY. It all goes back to BP. They are not separate movements, just as BSA and TSA are not separate movements, just different facets of the crystal of the ONE movement that BP started. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
BP's colors were green and gold/yellow, that is what we should stick to, the source of it all. I simpler and more traditional the better. No corporate logo style, no cross so it won't allude to one religion. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
What do you think? I changed the green to the WAGGGS version and added the oval. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 20:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I like the one with the ivory background. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
How long should we let the poll run? It's been 10 days now. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
How long should we let the poll run? It's been 10 days now. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 00:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Portal: "While the top-level portals are linked to directly from the Main Page, individual portals are linked by placing {{ portal}} on a page. However, in the main namespace, these templates should not be placed in articles, but instead should be located at the top of an article's talk page, often due to being integrated into WikiProject banner templates."
We currently have the portal tag in the See also section of a lot of articles, and we have it in ((tl|Infobox WorldScouting)). Per the guideline, we should not use the portal in article pages, only on the talk page; we already have the portal in the project banner. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
See comment at: Wikipedia_talk:Layout#Wikipedia:Portal_conflict — Rlevse • Talk • 11:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, since my request for help on this one has gone unanswered for months, what do you think of the idea of moving it to Savez Izviđača Jugoslavije, its historical name for years, and tagging it as defunct? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
:That's unfair. You asked the question, I answered. Why the incivility?
Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 11:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
OK. Would this be correct. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Yugoslavia 1951–1995 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1992 |
Croatia 1992 |
Macedonia 1992 |
Slovenia 1992 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Serbia and Montenegro 1995–2007 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Serbia 2007 |
Montenegro 2007 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I'll try to explain some of the questions:
Hope this helps. Piet Kroonenberg needs about 50 pages in The Undaunted vol. 1 for the explanation of Yugoslav Scouting prior to 1994/95; I can't see how this will ever fit in a single article ;)
Some proposals concerning the articles:
Comments? I strongly recommend Piet's book as main source for the articles. -- jergen ( talk) 18:50, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
These two new stubs are not notable and are likely to be quickly deleted. I have transfered the material that is appropriate to Scouting in East of England#Essex and notified the editor. I await his response. I do not think anything more needs to be done for now. -- Bduke (Discussion) 23:44, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Per Kingbird, WAGGGS member associations are starting to make announcements about their 2010-2012 centenary celebrations. We should start an article like the Scouting one. For matching naming, I propose Guiding 2010 Centenary . Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 01:13, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Hawk Mountain Camp and Oreland Boy Scout Troop 1 have serious issues and may not meet true criteria for notability. Ed has been monitoring these, but a user keeps removing the housekeeping tags. I hate to be drastic, but would putting these up for AfD help to break the problem down? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 06:18, 26 October 2008 (UTC)
What do we do with Camp Onway? This is a former camp of the Yankee Clipper Council that is now owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I asked over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement if they wanted to take it over, but there has been no response. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 13:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I'm working with WP:OTRS. I'm a scouter myself, just I don't have much time to get involved with this project. However I'm here to confirm that we have permission to use the content of that site that relates to World Scouting.
Specifically from the email: "There is no copyright on any of the material. I release all the material to be used for the public good." You guys can consider that no rights reserved or public domain.
As the material on this site may affect more then one article I'm asking for ideas on how we can make it clear that using this material is not a copyright infringement, but it is clear why material is copied from that site to wikipedia should someone ask. We generally affix {{PermissionsOTRS|id=2008092910033111}} (that is the ticket ID for this ticket) to the talk page of articles with a short explaination of what the ticket covers. I've already told you guys what it covers, just ideas on how to make it clear on multiple articles are welcome.... perhaps a template "article encorporates text from blah blah" or similar is worth thought. —— nix eagle 19:54, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
As noted on the main page of the Project, Girl Scouts of Jamaica is at AfD, I have supported there the merge to Scouting in Jamaica. However, this raises some general issues about articles on individual National Scouting organisations, particularly for small countries. The Girl Guides Association of Jamaica is a stub. The Scout Association of Jamaica is rather longer although I suspect the history section may have been lifted from somewhere. Increasingly I have come to the view that we should just have one article and cover all NSOs in the country for situations like this where that is manageable. I would strongly urge that the name of the article should be "Scouting and Guiding in Jamaica" (in this case), where the term Guiding is used, as the term "Scouting" is not always understood to include "Guiding". This could also apply at State level in some countries. We are close to that in Australia, just needing to add about Guiding in each state article. -- Bduke (Discussion) 20:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Articles about small organizations put up a number of problems:
So what can we do with the stubs on small organizations:
Just my thoughts. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Merging to the larger article is prob best as we don't seem to be able to get enough people working on our articles for the long term to support the other options. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:58, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
We have a lot of copyright problems. Bduke mentions The Scout Association of Jamaica: The history section was recently copied from [40]. Yesterday, I came upon Scouts Australia, also with a copyvio since its very first version in December 2004. I think we need something like a taskforce to check all articles tagged with mid importance or higher to avoid further problems. This problem is far more pressing than the fair use of images: If we loose an image, we still have text informations; but if an article is deleted as copyvio, all information is lost. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm with you that "Scouting and Guiding in ..." is far better for most countries. But there is one problem: Actually we use Template:Europe topic ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) etc for navigation in most of the national overviews. These templates require a systematic approach to article names. If we change only a part of the articles to "Scouting and Guiding in ...", we have to stop using these templates or to create lots of redirects or to develop new templates of our own.
If I could decide, I'd move all articles to "Scouting and Guiding in ...", but I fear that this could be seen as unappropriate especially by US editors. -- jergen ( talk) 09:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I do not think we can have a standard usage here. Where the term "Girl Scout" is used, "Scouting" is fine and covers everything, but the situation is quite different in countries that use the term Guide. This is particular true in those countries, mostly English speaking, that really have one dominant Scout organisation and one dominant Guide organisation. If you use the term "Scouting" in the UK or Australia, nobody, just nobody, would think you were including Guiding. It really would be a good idea to add information about Guiding to the State and Territory articles here in Australia, but it just can not happen if the names are still like "Scouting in Victoria" and not "Scouting and Guiding in Victoria". It would be misleading people. Some people too would think it was male dominance. It is one movement, but it not called the Scout Movement (if you want to include Guiding) in UK and Australia. It is called the Scout and Guide movement. Also we should not be driven by template structure. The template Jergen mentions already has trouble with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scouting in England is a redirect to Scouting in the United Kingdom. The others are articles in their own right on Scouting (not Guiding) in an EU approved region of the UK. -- Bduke (Discussion) 11:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
{{
Europe topic|Scouting in}}
. I was already planning to propose a master Scout topic template to incorporate all of these.For the Girl Guides in the UK it is important that it is not one movement and that there are two movements. I remember the discussions, talks and votes on the ISGF World Conference in Vienna and the position of the Trefoil Guild UK.- Phips ( talk) 23:59, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I do not often criticize our coordinator but I do really think that you are looking at it from the US prospective where the term "Guide" is not used. Let us look at the articles from the UK that refer to real Scout/Guide cooperation. We have Scout and Guide Graduate Association, Student Scout and Guide Organisation, Oxford University Scout and Guide Group and National Scout and Guide Symphony Orchestra. I have been associated with the first three of these and I can tell you the Guides would have had our guts for garters if we had not included "and Guide" in the name. It is not a question of whether we are two movements or one, nor is it anything to do with history. It is simply that the term "Scouting" is not generally understood to also include "Guiding" in places where the original girls organisation is called Guides and not Scouts. We have to go along with how words are understood, even if it is messy with no one solution that fits all. I am not, BTW, agreeing with international articles such as Scouting being renamed. I think we can explain things in the article. However, we can not do this in articles like Scouting in Scotland if we included Guiding there and we should be renaming Scouting in the United Kingdom to Scouting and Guiding in the United Kingdom. The original girls organisation was never called Scouts. I think I am prepared to go along with Ed, but I'm too busy this week to look at all the ramifications of it. -- Bduke (Discussion) 03:24, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Somebody just uploaded a cool new picture to this article, and added that a previous editor had stuck in kind of a resume-can someone with a fresh pair of eyes help rewrite that stuff into an article? Thanks, Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 12:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
A number of templates have been created or merged recently. Please browse through WP:S-tmp to review these.
A very recent Scouting template is {{ Scout continent}}. This replaces {{ Europe topic}} and related templates, and will allow us to customize these as needed.
{{ Infobox WorldScouting}} now has name label parameters. These may be used for officially used translations or for alternative legal names.
I have also created a new quote template: {{ Quote2col}}. This allows for quoted content in two columns and should be useful where text may be presented in original and translated versions, such as Scout Promise.
--—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 15:30, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I have started listing problems with images at WP:SCOUT. I am doing a quick pass through a lot of articles and listing the issues as I see them. I am not checking the image rationales or sources. There are thousands of articles, so my hope is that my fellow editors can look in depth and resolve the issues at hand. Because of the way I am doing this, there will be false positives, and I will miss some issues. Let me categorize the issues I have seen:
I know this is not a popular subject, but we need to police ourselves. As concerned editors work these issues, simply strike them from the list. I have worked the country articles for Africa and Asia and will continue to slog through the rest. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 18:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
As far as I understand WP:NPOV applies also to the illustrations of articles. We should also bear in mind that an illustration is an eye catcher, it is one of the first things most of the users remark when calling up an article. This means that we can not go on and just remove only the images from articles like Scouting in France that are in use in other articles. If we would act this way, we would put undue weight on secondary or tertiary organizations, some of them non-notable in the terms of Wikipedia. -- jergen ( talk)
Does anyone know how to retrieve a cached copy of a website? The Zimbabwe Scouts seem to have a new logo, which I found at http://www.zimscouts.co.zw/ but did not save a copy, now it says the site is gone. Help? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 14:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone know when the badge in Image:--ScoutsChris3.jpg started to be used by Scouts Canada? Or who created it? If so, please do update the image page. Many thanks! Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:52, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay, we gave the polls 10 more days to get more member participation, with moderate results, it's coming up on that 10-day mark, how do we proceed? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:27, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Archives: | |
Okay, it's coming up on that 10-day mark, how do we proceed? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) ( talk) 15:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC) The image is used in the following templates:
Scout logo poll
I have no strong views between 2 and 4, which are clearly the front runners anyway. However, if 4 is selected I would prefer the green to be the same dark green as 2. -- Bduke (Discussion) 20:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Guide logo poll
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Our lead coord, Rlevse, is running for arbitrator. Editors who wish to vote for or against candidates may do so at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008/Vote. Five persons will get 3-year spots on Arbcom (the normal term) plus two more who will get one-year spots due to early resignations. Posted in the same vein as the admin notices. JGHowes talk 21:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I was just wondering if I could get a reassessment on the importance level of Central New Jersey Council. I recently gave it a very significant clean up and believe that it could be upgraded from low to mid-level importance. Thanks for taking the time to look. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 06:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I only asked for a reassessment of the importance level because it's implied that such a request is allowed. In your "Requesting an assessment or re-assessment" section on the Assessment page, there is nothing that says importance levels will not be reassessed. I suggest you take that into consideration and think about clarifying that on the page. I also agree that you need to rethink your ratings system. If councils that do not have an impact on a national level are not reassessed into the mid-level importance, then I also suggest you clarify that as well. Currently, it says "articles on the regional or local level within all countries (councils, districts, counties, states, provinces, etc)" are part of the mid-level importance. Quite frankly, that whole page is rather unclear. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 20:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not telling you that it should be of higher importance or anything. I'm not here to try to change how you guys do things. What I'm saying is that your assessment information is incredibly misleading. In the chart on the assessment page next to Mid-level importance, it says "articles on the regional or local level within all countries (councils, districts, counties, states, provinces, etc)....fall into this category". You guys are now saying that councils actually fall into the low-level importance category. If that's true, then your chart is incorrect and requires clarification. - Brandon Rhea ( talk) 02:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
While checking the classification of some of our project's articles, I came upon the following articles that were recreated after a previous merge:
Al Jazeera has recently published an article on the Imam al-Mahdi Scouts. I've tried to synthesize this information into the existing wikipedia article, but I'd be grateful if some other folks could run their eyes over what is a tricky topic. Kingbird ( talk) 03:51, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I came across something interesting this week, a park dedicated to Scouts (BSA). It was just established this year and is in
Snow Hill, NC. Sorry they're not too clear, but I only had my cell camera phone with me, not my digital camera. The three images are on commons at
,
,
. —
Rlevse •
Talk • 02:08, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--
jergen (
talk)
10:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Scout friends, I wish you all Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and lots of Good Camping in 2009. Greetings from Austria Yours in Scouting- Phips ( talk) 13:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)