This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 90 | ← | Archive 93 | Archive 94 | Archive 95 | Archive 96 | Archive 97 | → | Archive 100 |
An editor remarked on the talk page that the Critical response section is very one-sided with only negative opinions of the work. I tend to agree. If anyone has access to reliable sources that could provide alternative views of the work, it would be helpful. Voceditenore ( talk) 11:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there anyone willing to work on this for peer review to get this BLP up to GA status? Bearian ( talk) 16:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
For those of you who may not have heard, Maureen Forrester passed away yesterday. 4meter4 ( talk) 23:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is undergoing development. More details on the talkpage. Brianboulton ( talk) 22:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I've created stubs for Much Ado About Nothing and The Rising of the Moon, but they could use expansion. We now have substantial articles for The Rose of Castille and Transformations. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:11, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
A crop of 8 just appeared at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs. They're not new articles, just newly tagged with {{ BLP unsourced}}. I've managed to source all but:
Neither of them seem particularly notable. Liping Zhang is notable (and now sourced) but could use a good dose of the 'red pencil' - it's blatant PR. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I haven't looked at this article in a long time and was surprised to see it tagged for OR. It's a pretty significant article for this project and could use our attention. 4meter4 ( talk) 02:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The Composer(s) of the Month focuses on composers in the opera corpus whose works still lack articles. Any ideas, suggestions, etc.? Voceditenore ( talk) 16:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
The Opera(s) of the Month focuses on improving existing articles. Any ideas, suggestions, etc.? Voceditenore ( talk) 16:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Here are some birthdays of note to consider:
Not, I am afraid, that he has any notable anniversary this year, but the Spontini article is incredibly sparse, as are those on his operas - even La vestale - and many operas are missing. Can we make a note to get Spontiniana up to speed in time for 2011? (160th aniversary of his death).-- Smerus ( talk) 17:06, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
This editor, seemingly straight from Opera North's PR department has been adding external links to their website in the middle of every opera they're doing this season (all reverted and user blocked). However, we did get one new article of it: The Portrait (opera). Mind you, I had reduce it to stub and re-write, but never mind. :-) Voceditenore ( talk) 16:57, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
I've been trying to dig up some biographical details on conductor Carlo Moresco without much success. I know he was one of the most important opera conductors in Philadelphia from the late 1940s through the 1970s, working for the Philadelphia La Scala Opera Company, the Philadelphia Grand Opera Company, and the Philadelphia Lyric Opera Company. He also was the director of the Tulsa Opera for some years (according to my former voice teacher who sang Liu and Gilda with the company under his baton). Anyway, I can't find out where and when he was born, if he is still alive, or anything about his education. Any help in this area would be appriciated. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
This article is being discussed for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victoria Taranova. Voceditenore ( talk) 22:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm going to be away 19-27 July with only limited computer access, but as this is due to a family member's medical problem, it might be prolonged. Consequently, I've provisionally filled in the August OoM and CoM, by holding over July, so at least blank boxes won't show up on the main OP Project page on August 1st, if I don't get back. Feel free to amend these if you all decide on something new.
I'm very much in favour of Smerus's idea last month:
As July and August are very slow months, with many members/editors on holiday, I'd suggest we schedule the Spontiniana for the autumn months.
Meanwhile, I'll be in Italy (for far more pleasant reasons than my July trip) from 30 July-25 August and then away again from 28 August-7 September. If any members are around and have any spare time, could you check User:AlexNewArtBot/OperaSearchResult every couple of days for any articles that would fall under the OP and add {{ WikiProject Opera}} to the talk page so they don't fall under the radar?
Also, recently found unreferenced BLPs periodically show up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs (the page is currently empty, and generally the ones that do show up are not critical bios, in fact most of 'em are given the boot) but it might be worthwhile for one or more of you to add this page to your watchlist. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 07:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Many congratulations and a big thank-you to Brianboulton and Wehwalt who have just brought this to Featured Article status [3]. I've added it to the Portal:Opera rotation of "Selected articles", and updated the list of FAs on the Portal and the OP main project page. Voceditenore ( talk) 07:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
An RfC has been raised concerning the use of italics in article titles (i.e., rendering the main title in italics on the Wikipedia page). A guideline currently restricts the use of this feature to "special cases", but there is now a suggestion that it could be more widely used, wherever appropriate to the article's title. Opinions are invited at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. (Copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Request for comment: italic article titles.) -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 08:05, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
A bot recently changed categorisation for various Italian operas discographies. The Category:Italian discographies has been changed to Category: Discographies of Italian artists. (for example the discography of Le Nozze di Figaro and other Mozart operas, even Die Zauberflöte: the Austrians will be glad to hear that Mozart is now an Italian !!). Also many other Italian opera discographies were moved to this category, which in my opinion is completely wrong. The category is intended for discographies of Italian singers and musical groups, not for works by Italian classical composers, or for works in Italian by composers of other nationalities. What do opera project members think of this? I propose that this new category be removed from all opera discography articles; since the category Italian discographies now no longer exists, simply undoing the change would result in a red link to a non-existing category. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 17:12, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad to learn that the above action has been taken; am totally in support. Viva-Verdi ( talk) 18:40, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I am under the impression that all these problems with Classical music discographies are caused by the fact that the participants in the WikiProject Discographies are completely focusing on popular music. The concept of a discography of a particular work is of course completely unknown in popular music culture, which focuses on performing artists. There may be dozens of Tosca recordings, but there is and will always be only one Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd, or one Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Maybe someone more experienced than me in projects connected to classical music could join the WikiProject Discographies to make sure that the interests of classical music articles are given proper consideration. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 14:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion this new Category: Opera singer discographies is misleading. I believe the four articles in this new category should be categorised as Classical music discographies (the main category), since these singers do not limit themselves to opera, and all four discographies also contain non-operatic recordings. If there is to be a further sub-categorisation of the category Classical music discographies (apart form the Opera discographies sub-category), it would make more sense to separate discographies dedicated to a particular work from discographies dedicated to a particular classical "artist" (be this a singer, instrumentalist, conductor, orchestra or ensemble). However, considering the relatively small number of articles in the main category, I don't think further sub-categories are necessary for now. Opinions pls? Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 15:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
I post here for comments the following from the Wagner WikiProject discussion Page:
Flying Dutchman
Is there a reason why this, alone of W's operas, is listed under its English title for the main article? If it's on the grounds of common use, we don't have 'The Mastersingers','Tristan and Isolde' or 'The Ring Cycle'. So for consistency we should move it to 'Der fliegende Holländer' - shouldn't we? -- Smerus ( talk)
Given the above, I would like to move the FD to der fH, subject to there being no intractable objections. Best regards, -- Smerus ( talk) 10:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
The question of which header to use for the best convenience of users is purely theoretical of course. Anyone entering ' The Flying Dutchman' at present goes automatically to a rather rackety article on the legend, which doesn't mention the opera until near the end. They have to be wise enough to ask for ' The Flying Dutchman (opera)' to get the opera. If we set up the new title and the disambiguation pages correctly, no user will be any the worse off for the opera being under its German title, being automatically redirected.
The philosophical problem you are facing here is, it seems to me, one of consistency. You can be consistent with an arbitrary decision as to 'which operas are best known by their English titles' - which might in itself give some problems with WP:V. This is arguably a very feeble consistency [code: I think's its as good as useless]. Or you can be consistent with giving operas in their original language titles as long as there is a redirect from the English title. That,it seems to me, is rock-solid consistent and not open to argument.-- Smerus ( talk) 15:50, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
I confess that I am rather puzzled by the diffident tenor of these responses. But if noone is too het up one way or the other I suppose the best thing is to let it all lie. -- Smerus ( talk) 17:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Why does this discussion conjure in my mind the image of an article condemned to sail endlessly on a sea of contradictory titles until it finds a Wikipedia reader faithful to one of them until death? Ahem. For whatever it's worth, in part along the lines set out by GuillaumeTell above, I'd favor English in two circumstances:
Otherwise, considerations of consistency noted above and concerns about the potential for conflicting translations strike me as weighing in favor of the original language, especially in the case of opera house staples. (Note that the existence of competing widely-used translations would rule out my second case for English above.) Therefore, I'd be in favor of dropping the Dutchman's anchor in a safe German port. Drhoehl ( talk) 22:54, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the correct way to do this, but I have expanded the articles on Korngold's operas Violanta and Die Kathrin and would like to request (re)assessment of the rating on the project's quality scale. I also created Der Ring des Polykrates and would like to request a rating for this article. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 13:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
As many of you know, Anthony Rolfe Johnson died last week. What should I find stuck on his article shortly thereafter but this monstrosity. In these cases, I find it best not to remove completely, but to replace with a simple biographical infobox. I've also added a fair use image. I heard him sing a wonderful recital accompanied only by a lute at St John's, Smith Square in the late 1990s. A beautiful singer! Voceditenore ( talk) 12:37, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
User:Nono64 just created Figaro (character) as a split off from the Figaro dab page. He/she has been linking Figaro in all the opera singer/opera articles as well. However, the Figaro (character) page itself is just another dab page. This hardly seems like something worth linking to, or even worthy of creating an entirely seperate dab page for. Readers clicking on it will most likely be looking for an article on the character of whatever particular work they are reading about. They will be sadly misled and dissapointed. I think the Figaro (character) page should be deleted, but if not, at least unwikify Figaro from all the opera related articles. Of course another option would be to actually create an article on the character like at Prince Hamlet. The Beaumarchais trilogy of plays were of course the inspiration for all the other works. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the tag on the Royal Opera House which imposed editing restrictions on the article as this is against the founding principles of Wikipedia - Wikipedia:Five pillars, and WikiMedia - [5]. WikiProjects offer useful guidelines on formatting an article, which editors may decide to follow or not (I personally like to consult and follow such guidelines); however it's inappropriate to attempt to prevent editors from progressing an article. If there is some particular issue with this article that is of concern, then please let me know. SilkTork * YES! 23:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 90 | ← | Archive 93 | Archive 94 | Archive 95 | Archive 96 | Archive 97 | → | Archive 100 |
An editor remarked on the talk page that the Critical response section is very one-sided with only negative opinions of the work. I tend to agree. If anyone has access to reliable sources that could provide alternative views of the work, it would be helpful. Voceditenore ( talk) 11:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there anyone willing to work on this for peer review to get this BLP up to GA status? Bearian ( talk) 16:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
For those of you who may not have heard, Maureen Forrester passed away yesterday. 4meter4 ( talk) 23:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is undergoing development. More details on the talkpage. Brianboulton ( talk) 22:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I've created stubs for Much Ado About Nothing and The Rising of the Moon, but they could use expansion. We now have substantial articles for The Rose of Castille and Transformations. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:11, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
A crop of 8 just appeared at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs. They're not new articles, just newly tagged with {{ BLP unsourced}}. I've managed to source all but:
Neither of them seem particularly notable. Liping Zhang is notable (and now sourced) but could use a good dose of the 'red pencil' - it's blatant PR. Voceditenore ( talk) 15:21, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
I haven't looked at this article in a long time and was surprised to see it tagged for OR. It's a pretty significant article for this project and could use our attention. 4meter4 ( talk) 02:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The Composer(s) of the Month focuses on composers in the opera corpus whose works still lack articles. Any ideas, suggestions, etc.? Voceditenore ( talk) 16:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
The Opera(s) of the Month focuses on improving existing articles. Any ideas, suggestions, etc.? Voceditenore ( talk) 16:03, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Here are some birthdays of note to consider:
Not, I am afraid, that he has any notable anniversary this year, but the Spontini article is incredibly sparse, as are those on his operas - even La vestale - and many operas are missing. Can we make a note to get Spontiniana up to speed in time for 2011? (160th aniversary of his death).-- Smerus ( talk) 17:06, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
This editor, seemingly straight from Opera North's PR department has been adding external links to their website in the middle of every opera they're doing this season (all reverted and user blocked). However, we did get one new article of it: The Portrait (opera). Mind you, I had reduce it to stub and re-write, but never mind. :-) Voceditenore ( talk) 16:57, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
I've been trying to dig up some biographical details on conductor Carlo Moresco without much success. I know he was one of the most important opera conductors in Philadelphia from the late 1940s through the 1970s, working for the Philadelphia La Scala Opera Company, the Philadelphia Grand Opera Company, and the Philadelphia Lyric Opera Company. He also was the director of the Tulsa Opera for some years (according to my former voice teacher who sang Liu and Gilda with the company under his baton). Anyway, I can't find out where and when he was born, if he is still alive, or anything about his education. Any help in this area would be appriciated. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
This article is being discussed for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victoria Taranova. Voceditenore ( talk) 22:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm going to be away 19-27 July with only limited computer access, but as this is due to a family member's medical problem, it might be prolonged. Consequently, I've provisionally filled in the August OoM and CoM, by holding over July, so at least blank boxes won't show up on the main OP Project page on August 1st, if I don't get back. Feel free to amend these if you all decide on something new.
I'm very much in favour of Smerus's idea last month:
As July and August are very slow months, with many members/editors on holiday, I'd suggest we schedule the Spontiniana for the autumn months.
Meanwhile, I'll be in Italy (for far more pleasant reasons than my July trip) from 30 July-25 August and then away again from 28 August-7 September. If any members are around and have any spare time, could you check User:AlexNewArtBot/OperaSearchResult every couple of days for any articles that would fall under the OP and add {{ WikiProject Opera}} to the talk page so they don't fall under the radar?
Also, recently found unreferenced BLPs periodically show up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/New unreferenced BLPs (the page is currently empty, and generally the ones that do show up are not critical bios, in fact most of 'em are given the boot) but it might be worthwhile for one or more of you to add this page to your watchlist. Best, Voceditenore ( talk) 07:14, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Many congratulations and a big thank-you to Brianboulton and Wehwalt who have just brought this to Featured Article status [3]. I've added it to the Portal:Opera rotation of "Selected articles", and updated the list of FAs on the Portal and the OP main project page. Voceditenore ( talk) 07:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
An RfC has been raised concerning the use of italics in article titles (i.e., rendering the main title in italics on the Wikipedia page). A guideline currently restricts the use of this feature to "special cases", but there is now a suggestion that it could be more widely used, wherever appropriate to the article's title. Opinions are invited at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. (Copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Request for comment: italic article titles.) -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 08:05, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
A bot recently changed categorisation for various Italian operas discographies. The Category:Italian discographies has been changed to Category: Discographies of Italian artists. (for example the discography of Le Nozze di Figaro and other Mozart operas, even Die Zauberflöte: the Austrians will be glad to hear that Mozart is now an Italian !!). Also many other Italian opera discographies were moved to this category, which in my opinion is completely wrong. The category is intended for discographies of Italian singers and musical groups, not for works by Italian classical composers, or for works in Italian by composers of other nationalities. What do opera project members think of this? I propose that this new category be removed from all opera discography articles; since the category Italian discographies now no longer exists, simply undoing the change would result in a red link to a non-existing category. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 17:12, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad to learn that the above action has been taken; am totally in support. Viva-Verdi ( talk) 18:40, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I am under the impression that all these problems with Classical music discographies are caused by the fact that the participants in the WikiProject Discographies are completely focusing on popular music. The concept of a discography of a particular work is of course completely unknown in popular music culture, which focuses on performing artists. There may be dozens of Tosca recordings, but there is and will always be only one Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd, or one Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Maybe someone more experienced than me in projects connected to classical music could join the WikiProject Discographies to make sure that the interests of classical music articles are given proper consideration. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 14:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion this new Category: Opera singer discographies is misleading. I believe the four articles in this new category should be categorised as Classical music discographies (the main category), since these singers do not limit themselves to opera, and all four discographies also contain non-operatic recordings. If there is to be a further sub-categorisation of the category Classical music discographies (apart form the Opera discographies sub-category), it would make more sense to separate discographies dedicated to a particular work from discographies dedicated to a particular classical "artist" (be this a singer, instrumentalist, conductor, orchestra or ensemble). However, considering the relatively small number of articles in the main category, I don't think further sub-categories are necessary for now. Opinions pls? Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 15:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
I post here for comments the following from the Wagner WikiProject discussion Page:
Flying Dutchman
Is there a reason why this, alone of W's operas, is listed under its English title for the main article? If it's on the grounds of common use, we don't have 'The Mastersingers','Tristan and Isolde' or 'The Ring Cycle'. So for consistency we should move it to 'Der fliegende Holländer' - shouldn't we? -- Smerus ( talk)
Given the above, I would like to move the FD to der fH, subject to there being no intractable objections. Best regards, -- Smerus ( talk) 10:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
The question of which header to use for the best convenience of users is purely theoretical of course. Anyone entering ' The Flying Dutchman' at present goes automatically to a rather rackety article on the legend, which doesn't mention the opera until near the end. They have to be wise enough to ask for ' The Flying Dutchman (opera)' to get the opera. If we set up the new title and the disambiguation pages correctly, no user will be any the worse off for the opera being under its German title, being automatically redirected.
The philosophical problem you are facing here is, it seems to me, one of consistency. You can be consistent with an arbitrary decision as to 'which operas are best known by their English titles' - which might in itself give some problems with WP:V. This is arguably a very feeble consistency [code: I think's its as good as useless]. Or you can be consistent with giving operas in their original language titles as long as there is a redirect from the English title. That,it seems to me, is rock-solid consistent and not open to argument.-- Smerus ( talk) 15:50, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
I confess that I am rather puzzled by the diffident tenor of these responses. But if noone is too het up one way or the other I suppose the best thing is to let it all lie. -- Smerus ( talk) 17:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Why does this discussion conjure in my mind the image of an article condemned to sail endlessly on a sea of contradictory titles until it finds a Wikipedia reader faithful to one of them until death? Ahem. For whatever it's worth, in part along the lines set out by GuillaumeTell above, I'd favor English in two circumstances:
Otherwise, considerations of consistency noted above and concerns about the potential for conflicting translations strike me as weighing in favor of the original language, especially in the case of opera house staples. (Note that the existence of competing widely-used translations would rule out my second case for English above.) Therefore, I'd be in favor of dropping the Dutchman's anchor in a safe German port. Drhoehl ( talk) 22:54, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the correct way to do this, but I have expanded the articles on Korngold's operas Violanta and Die Kathrin and would like to request (re)assessment of the rating on the project's quality scale. I also created Der Ring des Polykrates and would like to request a rating for this article. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 13:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
As many of you know, Anthony Rolfe Johnson died last week. What should I find stuck on his article shortly thereafter but this monstrosity. In these cases, I find it best not to remove completely, but to replace with a simple biographical infobox. I've also added a fair use image. I heard him sing a wonderful recital accompanied only by a lute at St John's, Smith Square in the late 1990s. A beautiful singer! Voceditenore ( talk) 12:37, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
User:Nono64 just created Figaro (character) as a split off from the Figaro dab page. He/she has been linking Figaro in all the opera singer/opera articles as well. However, the Figaro (character) page itself is just another dab page. This hardly seems like something worth linking to, or even worthy of creating an entirely seperate dab page for. Readers clicking on it will most likely be looking for an article on the character of whatever particular work they are reading about. They will be sadly misled and dissapointed. I think the Figaro (character) page should be deleted, but if not, at least unwikify Figaro from all the opera related articles. Of course another option would be to actually create an article on the character like at Prince Hamlet. The Beaumarchais trilogy of plays were of course the inspiration for all the other works. 4meter4 ( talk) 20:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the tag on the Royal Opera House which imposed editing restrictions on the article as this is against the founding principles of Wikipedia - Wikipedia:Five pillars, and WikiMedia - [5]. WikiProjects offer useful guidelines on formatting an article, which editors may decide to follow or not (I personally like to consult and follow such guidelines); however it's inappropriate to attempt to prevent editors from progressing an article. If there is some particular issue with this article that is of concern, then please let me know. SilkTork * YES! 23:00, 28 July 2010 (UTC)