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I received the following message from User:Matthead on my own talk page, but I thought the discussion would be of interest to this project, so I'm reposting and replying here:
You raise several points here, and I'll try to address each of them:
You make a good point about merging these pages to reduce maintenance. I'll go one step further - I'd even consider deleting them all. Despite my work on those articles to reduce the OR-ness and reduce POV, I'm still not personally comfortable with them. Additional clarification follows.
If you see any incorrect statement about the history of German states in article prose, please feel free to correct it. As for " nation", don't think it implies sovereign state. In Olympic articles, "nations" are the set of athletes represented by one National Olympic Committee. Therefore, Hong Kong, Puerto Rico, etc. are "nations" at the Olympics, despite their political status.
We understand that these are not the correct names of these nations, but we agreed to use the common name for Wikipedia Olympic articles. It's the same reason why we have Soviet Union at the 1988 Summer Olympics and not Union of Soviet Socialist Republics at the 1988 Summer Olympics (or even, "...at the Games of the XXIV Olympiad"!!). We agreed to use "Iran" instead of "Islamic Republic of Iran", "Libya" instead of "Libyan Arab Jamahiriya", etc. Don't be offended by the use of the common short name in article titles or results tables. The correct place to indicate the official full name of the nation (if desired) is in the introductory prose paragraph in the appropriate "...at the Olympics" articles.
Our policy of not combining counts for multiple NOCs came about as a result of trying to reduce the amount of original research and non-neutral POV on those articles. Germany's situation is a perfect example. We are quite convinced that combining FRG and GDR for 1968-1988 totals would be wrong, since they had two independent National Olympic Committees for those years, and therefore had a total of more entrants (and medalists) in many events compared to a single NOC. As you point out, perhaps a combined team would be even stronger, but that is total speculation and obviously non-encyclopedic for that reason.
So, what about the United Team (not "Unified Team") years? As you point out, surely that is a single German team and at the time (before country codes were standardized), official reports refer to "Germany" and "GER". "Equipe Unifiée Allemande" was retroactively added. Presumably the IOC wanted to make a distinction between a combined team from two NOCs vs. one team from a single NOC (as in the "GER" years), but that's just my guess.
I thing the strongest case could be made to combine the FRG results with GER, as this is a continuation of the same NOC. But there's the dilemma — if we do that, we open a can of worms. Why stop there? Does that give us the justification to combine Czechoslovakia (TCH) with Czech Republic (CZE) and USSR (URS) with Russia (RUS), for example? The "successor NOC logic" would apply, but what then of TCH medals won solely by Slovakian athletes or URS medals won solely by Ukranians, Latvians, etc. What a mess that would be trying to retroactively sort out the "correct" totals!
Basically, the problem is that if we make any interpretive or judgement decision, then we add some non-NPOV or OR to the article, so we decided to make none of these kinds of decisions.
I think the comparison to FIFA is imprecise, because as you point out, while FIFA keeps records that span predecessor and successor states, the IOC does not keep records that span multiple Games. Perhaps this is a good reason for us to delete those total medal count articles. I think the set of individual Games medal count articles can stand alone without the three (or one merged) "total count" articles.
I agree that there are multiple conflicting sources of medal counts. However, I strongly diagree that the Wikipedia totals are "highly doubtful"! I spent considerable time a few months ago cross-checking all these results. I went through all the individual sports at each Games to verify all those specific medal tables (e.g. Cycling at the 1928 Summer Olympics, with 8 nations and 6 events). The primary sources for these pages (and for all our work) are the IOC medal database ( here) and all the official reports from each Games (PDF files all downloadable from here). I even found a handful of discrepancies in these primary sources (such as Dorothy Greenhough-Smith's bronze medal in Figure skating at the 1908 Summer Olympics showing up for "GER" instead of "GBR" in the IOC medal database), and noted those differences (such as the footnote on 1908 Summer Olympics medal count). I built an Excel spreadsheet that lists the per-sport per-Games counts for each NOC. I use it to quickly create summary tables like you see on Finland at the Winter Olympics. My spreadsheet cross-references with the individual Games IOC lists, so I am certain of its accuracy. Your Der Speigel reference matches our Wikipedia totals if you say that Germany = GER+FRG+GDR+EUA = 119 gold and Russia = RUS+URS+EUN = 121 gold. However, I have problems with those calculations for reasons described above, so despite a good source listing those totals, I would be reluctant to do the same thing on Wikipedia.
I hope this answers your message, and I invite further discussion, especially on the idea of deleting the three total medal count articles. Andrwsc 19:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
This isn't something specifically addressed in your message to me, but I know you have been working on some of the "...at the Olympics" articles, so I thought I should explain our work in this area. Basically, we have individual articles for each nation (NOC) at each Games. There are ~3200 of these articles! These articles are linked from the "Participating nations" section of the main Games pages, plus from every results page where we have used templates such as {{ flagIOCathlete}}. If you click on the country code after the name, you go to the appropriate article. Additional navigation is provided by the infobox on the right side of those pages, where you can go to the article for any other Games for that same nation, or by the box at the bottom of the article, where you can go to any other nation at these same Games.
This system works really well, but the one area which is somewhat neglected is the set of summary articles above them. We started out with the idea of having 2, perhaps 3 summary articles per nation: "... at the Summer Olympics", "... at the Winter Olympics", and "... at the Olympics". To be honest, I think this is confusing and overkill. I'd like to compress that down to a single "... at the Olympics" article. Now, this is the one area where I think we can perform some sort of aggregation of related NOCs. Specifically, I think a single Germany at the Olympics article could cover all the material now covered in:
This could be a very well-written article, covering all the background of the separate teams, the United Team, etc. I could even envision a semi-combined (GER+FRG+EUA) medal table in this article, without stepping too far into non-NPOV or OR territory. If you'd like to take this on, I'd be supportive in helping you.
As for the current situation, the idea is that the infoboxes show all the appearances of this NOC. The "Related appearance" section is used to show summary-level links to direct predecessor or successor NOCs only. Therefore "parallel" NOCs are generally excluded. For example, {{ Infobox Olympics Russia}} has links to the URS and EUN pages, but not to any of the other ex-Soviet republics (even though they might be considered "related"). That's why, for example, I reverted some of your changes to the various Germany infoboxes. Saarland shouldn't appear in the East Germany box, to cite one thing I reverted. Hope this helps, Andrwsc 02:51, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with most of your points. The "highly doubtful" refered to the OR concern on which we agree, not the accuracy of the counts. In short, I propose:
The issue is (luckily!) rather simple for us Germans: teams split 1968-1988, since united again, so the wound is healing and only a scar remains. Other cases are reverse, formerly united teams that are split for over a decade now, and likely remain so. As for the "mess that would be trying to retroactively sort out the correct totals!", there is no need that Wiki editors preemptively assess all the medal winner bios. If someone wants to have a certain count added/changed/whatever, e.g. a high jump medal won by a Hobbit while the Shire was a part of Mordor, it should be done if proper sources are given for the athlete's hobbitness. Also, I see no big problem when a Mordor medal is counted towards Mordor and Shire in these cases, to keep all Middlearthlings happy. -- Matthead discuß! O 19:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
BTW: is it at least known when the IOC introduced EUA, if not why? -- Matthead discuß! O 19:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
A discussion started there under West Germany, East Germany and Germany were/are how many seperate states/nations?, it is continued with my answer here:
Let's face it, the articles covering Germans at the Olympics are a mess, thats why I have proposed several mergers. One intro says "West Germany (Federal Republic of Germany) competed at the Olympic Games for the last time as an independent nation at the 1988 Summer Olympics". Yikes, Federal Republic of Germany lost independence after 1988? My general problem with the use of West Germany on Wikipedia is that too many people expose a lack of knowledge regarding German history, especially the continuity of the FRG after 1990. Sadly, the IOC itself falls under this "no clue" category, as they used or use inconsistent naming with FRG/GER. The move of all "West Germany at ..." to "Germany at ..." would make this clearer here. Also, I can see only one Germany in United Team of Germany. It's not United Team of Germanies, nor United Team of German states, United Team of German NOCs, United Team of Germans or United German Team. BTW, regarding the German NOC, there was a change in May 2006, when the NOK and the DSB merged to DOSB. Do we have to brace for yet another code in 2008? -- Matthead discuß! O 00:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I just wanted some feedback on the format for the medal tables on the various "sport at the XXXX Summer olympics". For example, the Athletics at the 1900 Summer Olympics page had the country listed along with the IOC acronym. (USA, GBR, FRA etc.). Zé da Silva edited the page so that it removed those acronyms and I reverted it back. I just want to be sure about whether those acronmys should be inserted into those medal tables. Perakhantu 18:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a question about the categories at this article. Since this is an article about the entire Olympic history, should the categories for Summer and Winter games be here? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
{{flagIOCteam|EUN|1992 Summer}}
to produce Due to the comments I faced at the Belarus article mentioned above, I had to modify the template to add a space where event results can be cited. Comments please. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
(Pull left.) OK, so I've started a sort of citations conglomeration page at User:Jared/sandbox5. It seems like it'll be time consuming to make up, but should save a lot of time. Anyhow, what I think we should do is call different references by different successive parameters using switches. The first would be the games year, followed by the season. The third parameter would be the report series or whatever that you're specifically looking for, like aafla, medal, etc. If specifications need to be made further (what volume of the report, is it the general report, or the results report, etc.), more switches can be used to make these more specific calls. When the last call is reached for a specific ref, the {{ cite web}} or other appropriate template is made as the returned text. I tried putting in the <ref> commands right into the template, but it turned out that all the refs on the page would show when you transclude the template, so I had to fix that. So take a look at it, and maybe I'll continue tomorrow. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 03:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
{{{3}}}
strings, like aafla
, medal
, and others because it seems they'll be the most numerous and varied. Good job.
Parutakupiu
talk ||
contribs
23:05, 15 July 2007 (UTC)It was alluded to above that we reconsider what to do with the medal tables for each games (those "pages" on {{ Olympic games medal count}}) because of the fact that it is almost impossible to keep an appropriate tally, find reliable sources, or ensure that no one number is changed or whatnot. Now, I know that Andrwsc has done considerable work to those pages so for now, I thought I would make a suggestion as to what to do with the other pages.
First should probably come the deletion of the three "total" pages: Summer Olympics medal count, Winter Olympics medal count, and Total Olympics medal count. These pages, as mentioned above and continuously throughout the months, contain grouped nations that should not probably be grouped, some that should have been, some nations that have split apart, etc, whereby now, any attempt at creating a total count would not be accurate to say the least. The highest we can possibly look at medal counts accurately is on a single-games-level.
As for the other pages (per-games tables), there technically isn't anything wrong with them, but technically, there isn't much to say, really; just the table is about it. I've been mulling this over, and what I sort of came up with is that since every nation that competed at the games is already listed on the main games page under the Participating NOCs/Nations section, why not just list any medals won there? Now the problems I have come up with with this "solution" include the fact that there are already numbers next to each nation to denote number of participants, how would we differentiate between gold/silver/bronze and should we, should we delete the old tables, ...? Now that I think of it, it may not be the best solution, but I will still think about it. Perhaps something like this:
It seems a little big and doesn't offer much room to put the number of participants (which is more important?), but it looks cool and also wouldn't show a ranking if placed in the NOC section. Just a thought. This adds the number of participants, but is humongus:
— └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 13:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC) and 13:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I know this may not be under our "jurisdiction" but it is a similar article and I'm having some difficulties with an editor there. While the Olympic Games are not the Pan American Games, I think we should have some similarity in the formatting of the articles, and the editor is blatantly disregarding any suggestions I make. I am asking you as an editor, not a member of this project, to make suggestions on that page that would be appropriate to make it look the most aesthetically pleasing. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 18:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Winter Olympics diploma count (2nd nomination)
I figured I should give another go at deleting this article, especially seeing as how we shouldn't set the precedent for these to be here when the 2008 games roll along. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 13:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey all,
There is going to be a big push to delete any unreferenced article ... and not necessarily through AfD, but through PROD and other means. We have a large amount of Olympic athlete articles with no references. My main goal over the next couple of weeks is going to be to get some of these referenced. The primary focus is on BLPs (biographies of living persons), but I wouldn't be surprised if that moved on. As you know, we have some editors who mass add articles and/or details to articles but don't follow process at all. I would hate to see their good work go to waste.
BTW, my watchlist was getting a bit out of control so I decided to completely purge it. Right now, the only two things on there are this talk page and the project page. ;) -- Sue Anne 16:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
May someone can stop the user David Krysakowski? He has destroyed a hugh number of Olympic pages... Doma-w 13:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for being late. I used the term "destroyed" because he changed the standard style of many pages without adding new data.
What about his edits e.g. here:
Maybe David was confused because the event pages were created with "flagIOCmedalist", but the "List of Olympic medalists in xxx" pages were created with "flagIOCathlete"? Doma-w 22:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Somebody can help? Felipe C.S ( talk ) 18:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Does this category need to be sorted so that events are correctly categorised? Can a bot do it? Is there a todo list anyway? Just wondering, RHB - Talk 21:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
In Rowing at the Summer Olympics Argentina is twice in the medal count. Could someone check..? Thanks! Hålslaget 22:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I was checking out my pictograms and found out a duplicate of Image:Olympic pictogram Hockey.png with the name Image:Olympic pictogram Field hockey.png. I didn't realize (or didn't remember) until know that it was the former file that was linked by all the related Field hockey pages and templates, while the latter was orphaned. But here lies my doubt: the main sport and per-Games articles are name "Field hockey at...", however the template page is named {{ Olympic Games Hockey}} but bears the title "Field hockey". Along with this, the IOC calls it merely "Hockey".
Should we rename the per-Games template to {{ Olympic Games Field hockey}} and replace the instances of Image:Olympic pictogram Hockey.png with Image:Olympic pictogram Field hockey.png, to maintain consistence with the articles? Or should we follow the IOC website and rename everything to just "Hockey" (very generic, imo)? Parutakupiu 23:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
With my lessening patience for the report to come out, I re-emailed the AAFLA (LA84) library to see when they plan on actually putting it up (if you remember, I last told you that they'd have it up by the end of July, but...).
Anyway, so with a swift response (within a half-hour!) someone responded and said that the priority for the foundation at the moment is setting up a Google search interface, which they expect to take about 3 weeks. By the time that's done, though, the 2004 report should be accessible. So don't get your hopes up again, but we'll wait it out and see what happens.
The person who replied also asked if I needed anything specific from the report, but I replied no, because really, I need the whole report, and I wouldn't know where to begin! So if there is something you're stuck on, might I suggest you contact the person on the receiving end of library@la84foundation.org, who seems sort of excited that someone is actually awaiting one of their publications.
The librarian also said that they have received the hard copy reports from the 2006 Olympics, but "the digital edition is a long way off."
Anyhow, I just thought I'd let you know this updated information. Jared (t) 20:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to add the sortable element there? The only problem should be the colspan/rowspans. -- Howard the Duck 14:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all! I don't know if some of you have noticed what I've been doing on this page, but now that I've somewhat finished the major changes to it, I'd thought I should present the results of my work. It is an old article writing guideline sort-of page that was a bit lost after the project's look was refreshed, so I commited myself to update it layout- and content-wise.
The biggest structural change I performed was converting the (heavy!) progress/coverage tables from templates into project sub-subpages (they were only transcluded once, so no need). The hardest task was cleaning up the NOC table, as you can guess — I applied flag templates, changed characters, and rearranged the NOCs by their attendance record (partially, because the tied NOCs are still not ordered alphabetically). I have a doubt with this table, though: NOCs which did not exist at a specific Games are shaded in red, but there are only some NOCs (the most historical ones) that have this shade applied. What about "minor" NOCS that also didn't exist at some time? Should I treat them equally? If so, we risk overshading the table (besides contributing to its size increase). Or should I just forget this shading option and use an hyphen for both situations (NOC did not attend, NOC did not exist)?
Thanks for any review and suggestion. Parutakupiu 18:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Jared! New info about the bidding procedure and regulations for the first Summer Youth Olympic Games in 2010 — see news, deadlines and documentation (pdf). Parutakupiu 21:27, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I recently stumbled upon this article. Some points made me wonder:
A quick check of the other "Nordic skiing at the XXXX Winter Olympics" shows that none of them has this info. Not being familiar with your project here, I thought I'd ask before doing something about it. Anyway, is there a preferred format for such things? Lupo 11:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
That version of the article was my work, so perhaps I should explain! The "Nordic Skiing" events at the Winter Olympics consist of cross-country skiing, ski jumping, and nordic combined. In the early Winter Games (e.g. 1924), there was only 1-2 events for each of these disciplines, so the results pages had grouped them all together (e.g. look at this edit). In later Games, we had distinct results pages for each discipline (e.g. Cross-country skiing at the 2006 Winter Olympics, Ski jumping at the 2006 Winter Olympics, and Nordic combined at the 2006 Winter Olympics). I wanted to make these consistent, so that each sport would have a series of similar articles across all Games (e.g. "Cross-country skiing at the yyyy Winter Olympics", "Ski jumping at the yyyy Winter Olympics", etc.) and this would also simplify the somewhat distracting "navigation box farm" at the bottom of those older "all Nordic" articles. That left the "Nordic skiing at the yyyy Winter Olympics" articles "orphaned" in a sense, so I turned them into disambiguation/navigation type pages that summarize all the Nordic events for each Games and lead the reader to the detailed discipline-specific articles, which have the medal winners etc. I don't know if this is more confusing that it is worth and perhaps they should be deleted? If kept, I agree that we ought to add a reference to the official report for each of those Games, and that is a top priority for this WikiProject anyway. Hope this helps, Andrwsc 15:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I made several minor additions to the Olympic Flame page. All I did was clean up the history section a bit and add a bit of trivia regarding the Olympic Flame. In addition, that same page could use some minor cleanup. I am just suggesting that the final torchbearer be merged with the correct relay. 208.107.168.154 21:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I've posted a question at Talk:Pierre de Coubertin medal, because when doing basic research for an article on Raymond Gafner (former IOC member and supposedly winner of the Coubertin medal), I ran into some factual problems with the existing article on the Medal. I'm not an Olympics expert at all, so I would appreciate if people with more knowledge and/or better sources could take a look. Fram 12:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Somebody has speedily deleted a Brian Lewis page, who won a gold medal at the Sydney Olympics as a member of American 4x100 m relay team. Could somebody please restore it as I think it doesn't qualify for speedy deletion criteria. If it isn't possible, then I can start the article again, but first I would like to know is it desireable, because I don't want to see it again deleted. Thanks! Gh 19:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks in advance! :) Doma-w 20:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
{{flagIOC|GBR|...}}
(through the name= parameter) so that it displays Great Britain and Ireland for the articles covering the 1896 to 1920 Games.{{Country flag IOC alias BIZ}}
will point to
Image:British honduras flag.gif (it was pointing to a non-existing
Image:British Honduras flag.gif).Valerio LG has decided to add a new template to the basteball pages, and really thin that they are not necessary. Plus none of the other "single" sport pages (i.e. volleyball, water polo) have this type of template, and, if I'm not mistaken, we are trying to make these pages adhere to a similar format. I have sent him a messege via his/her discussion page, so hopefully this will be resolved. Perakhantu 17:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
A user decided to merge all of the future Olympics pages into one sloppy mess of a page called "Unannounced Olympiads". I just figured this should be discussed. I personally don't like the idea of 5 different Olympics all being on one page. I'm going to revert him and then if we decide that it is a good solution, then the page can be recreated. -- Scorpion 0422 04:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
You know, now that I see that pages like this also exist, I must really question the need for a separate page on the 2016 Olympics themselves. All that we really know about those Olympics is which cities are bidding on them. Everything else is mere speculation. How on earth can we justify having an article on an unannounced set of games and on the bidding process for those same games? It boggles the mind. If anyone really thinks that separate articles makes sense—a proposition with which I am not in agreement—then we should title them like this, since that's all the article is going to have to say, anyway. Unschool 05:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
As for games 2020 and beyond, there are some valuable nuggets, (eg Paris wants to bid for the 2024 Games because it is the Anniversary of its last games), but as you state, many of the entries state things like "X is thinking of beginning to possibly bid for Games X"--quite tenuous. Why don't we edit the Template to state "Future Games or Bids" and group those tenous bits on one page as Unschool attempted? -- Cbradshaw 16:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the idea of a single combined article for all unannounced Games is a bad idea. I think it's the wrong solution to the problem. Basically, we want to make sure that we only mention cities that have reliable, verifiable sources to back up any stated plans. We need to weed out all the unsourced speculative material, which of course would be WP:OR. If we do a good job of that cleanup work, then the article set will take care of itself. For example, if there is a WP:RS for a Paris 2024 bid, then there is justification for a 2024 Summer Olympics article to hold that information. There probably isn't any reliable source for Games beyond 2028, so no articles would be created. The presence or absence of encyclopedic material will dictate what the "cut-off" for future articles will be — there is no need for us to have some kind of arbitrary rule. Let's work on cleaning up up the future Games articles first and see what we have. I think it's time to resolve all the "citation needed" tags — if we can't find anything, remove those cities outright from the article. Andrwsc 16:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Category:Artistic gymnastics at the Olympics & Category:Rhythmic gymnastics at the Olympics & Category:Trampoline gymnastics at the Olympics have nominated for merging into Category:Gymnastics at the Olympics. 132.205.44.5 21:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
What is the problem with the word broadcasted?? And why it can be used only for six TV stations (including Ireland)? Do we have an expert who can repair the 2006 Winter Olympics page? Thanks in advance! Doma-w 22:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The title says it all. Yes, I know the olympics are still a year away, but I was recently trying to find a nice, easy to read list of who has qualified for Team Canada so far with little luck. With the the qualification for several events already underway, many teams are starting to take shape, so perhaps its time to create the team pages. Is there some kind of rule for this? -- Scorpion 0422 14:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, How far ahead (if at all) should we go with making pages for the Youth Olympic Games? Also, would it be alright to edit the series (perhaps the first two announced games for now) to the Olympics template? Or would people rather see a seperate template for those games? Also, should the Youth cities be included on the string of "Main" Olympics along the bottom? I don't prefer that, but I do like adding the Youth Games to the template.-- Cbradshaw 05:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Category:Olympic artistic gymnasts & Category:Olympic rhythmic gymnasts & Category:Olympic trampoline gymnasts have nominated for deletion. 132.205.44.5 22:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just noticed that there exists Category:Unified Team sportspeople (plus a few subcategories), created a few years ago. Seems like a duplication of Category:Olympic competitors for the Unified Team, so we should probably just delete the former. Chanheigeorge 09:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Bosnia's current flag (the blue and yellow one with the stars) was adopted a few days prior to the start of the 1998 Olympics. It should be shown instead of the old lilly flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.31.10.49 ( talk) 17:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Heads up. There are some editors who are starting to use deletion processes to nominate articles either for AfD of CSD. I have had two articles that have gone through that so far, Bruce Haslingden ( Australia cross country skiing - kept) and James Crall ( United States bobsleigh - withdrawn). A third article, Thomas M. Jacobs (United States - nordic skiing - under review right now, but favoring toward keep). The main issue is notability even though WP:BIO has notability guidelines on athletes, even the Olympics (Crall won a bronze medal in the two-man event at the 1967 FIBT World Championships in Alpe d'Huez, France and was still CSDed before an administrator dropped the CSD.).
This issue on cruft may be the biggest threat not just to our project, but to a lot of other projects as well. Chris 00:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi! The following TFDs lack attention: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 October 14#Template:2004 Summer Olympics medal count, Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 October 14#Template:2006 Winter Olympics medal count. Punkmorten 19:20, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Martin Sheridan- I lurk a bit on this list. You guys use some of my sources, as I've written 23 books on the Olympics and am Past-President of the International Society of Olympic Historians (ISOH). The books you quote sometimes are The Golden Book of the Olympic Games (with Erich Kamper) and my series on the 1896-1920 Olympics. Martin Sheridan is my favorite Olympic athlete (one of my dogs is named after him!) and I really am a neophyte on Wikipedia in terms of getting into the discussion. I want to edit his article but not certain how to do that. There could be a lot added to his bio, but also, there is a major error. Sheridan did not carry the US flag at the 1908 Olympic opening ceremony. That was Ralph Rose. (It was also not Johnny Garrels, as sometimes seen - Garrels was the standard bearer.) Sheridan did make the quote, however, "This flag dips to no earthly king!" when asked about Rose not dipping the US flag to the British King at the Opening ceremony. This is detailed in my book on 1908, and I've got photos of Rose carrying the flag during the opening ceremony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billbambam ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I have raised the idea of putting a box on the Main Page for the duration of the 2008 Summer Olympics over at the Village Pump. I would like to ask the members of this WikiProject for their opinion on this: should we do this or not, and if so, how? Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Olympics on the Main Page. I've put a draft version of what I had in mind at User:Aecis/Olympic sandbox. A ecis Brievenbus 18:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if anyone would object to me taking the "List of modern Summer Olympic Games" from the Summer Olympic Games page and the "List of Winter Olympic Games" from the Winter Olympic Games and combining them to make one big master "List of modern Olympic Games" page? It seems like that kind of page SHOULD exist. My intention would be to fully source the page and eventually take a stab at an FLC. Any opposition out there? I would build the page in a sandbox, and then get some opinions before creating the page. -- Scorpion 0422 04:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
About a week ago, I proposed putting a box about the 2008 Summer Olympics on the Main Page for the duration of the Games (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Olympics on the Main Page and Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Olympics on the Main Page). After discussions at the Village Pump, I have withdrawn the suggestion. However, I have made a new proposal for our coverage of the 2008 Summer Olympics: to create a Portal about the 2008 Summer Olympics, and to put a link to that Portal on the Main Page. I would like to ask the members of this WikiProject to shed their lights on this proposal, at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Portal proposal. A ecis Brievenbus 14:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
I received the following message from User:Matthead on my own talk page, but I thought the discussion would be of interest to this project, so I'm reposting and replying here:
You raise several points here, and I'll try to address each of them:
You make a good point about merging these pages to reduce maintenance. I'll go one step further - I'd even consider deleting them all. Despite my work on those articles to reduce the OR-ness and reduce POV, I'm still not personally comfortable with them. Additional clarification follows.
If you see any incorrect statement about the history of German states in article prose, please feel free to correct it. As for " nation", don't think it implies sovereign state. In Olympic articles, "nations" are the set of athletes represented by one National Olympic Committee. Therefore, Hong Kong, Puerto Rico, etc. are "nations" at the Olympics, despite their political status.
We understand that these are not the correct names of these nations, but we agreed to use the common name for Wikipedia Olympic articles. It's the same reason why we have Soviet Union at the 1988 Summer Olympics and not Union of Soviet Socialist Republics at the 1988 Summer Olympics (or even, "...at the Games of the XXIV Olympiad"!!). We agreed to use "Iran" instead of "Islamic Republic of Iran", "Libya" instead of "Libyan Arab Jamahiriya", etc. Don't be offended by the use of the common short name in article titles or results tables. The correct place to indicate the official full name of the nation (if desired) is in the introductory prose paragraph in the appropriate "...at the Olympics" articles.
Our policy of not combining counts for multiple NOCs came about as a result of trying to reduce the amount of original research and non-neutral POV on those articles. Germany's situation is a perfect example. We are quite convinced that combining FRG and GDR for 1968-1988 totals would be wrong, since they had two independent National Olympic Committees for those years, and therefore had a total of more entrants (and medalists) in many events compared to a single NOC. As you point out, perhaps a combined team would be even stronger, but that is total speculation and obviously non-encyclopedic for that reason.
So, what about the United Team (not "Unified Team") years? As you point out, surely that is a single German team and at the time (before country codes were standardized), official reports refer to "Germany" and "GER". "Equipe Unifiée Allemande" was retroactively added. Presumably the IOC wanted to make a distinction between a combined team from two NOCs vs. one team from a single NOC (as in the "GER" years), but that's just my guess.
I thing the strongest case could be made to combine the FRG results with GER, as this is a continuation of the same NOC. But there's the dilemma — if we do that, we open a can of worms. Why stop there? Does that give us the justification to combine Czechoslovakia (TCH) with Czech Republic (CZE) and USSR (URS) with Russia (RUS), for example? The "successor NOC logic" would apply, but what then of TCH medals won solely by Slovakian athletes or URS medals won solely by Ukranians, Latvians, etc. What a mess that would be trying to retroactively sort out the "correct" totals!
Basically, the problem is that if we make any interpretive or judgement decision, then we add some non-NPOV or OR to the article, so we decided to make none of these kinds of decisions.
I think the comparison to FIFA is imprecise, because as you point out, while FIFA keeps records that span predecessor and successor states, the IOC does not keep records that span multiple Games. Perhaps this is a good reason for us to delete those total medal count articles. I think the set of individual Games medal count articles can stand alone without the three (or one merged) "total count" articles.
I agree that there are multiple conflicting sources of medal counts. However, I strongly diagree that the Wikipedia totals are "highly doubtful"! I spent considerable time a few months ago cross-checking all these results. I went through all the individual sports at each Games to verify all those specific medal tables (e.g. Cycling at the 1928 Summer Olympics, with 8 nations and 6 events). The primary sources for these pages (and for all our work) are the IOC medal database ( here) and all the official reports from each Games (PDF files all downloadable from here). I even found a handful of discrepancies in these primary sources (such as Dorothy Greenhough-Smith's bronze medal in Figure skating at the 1908 Summer Olympics showing up for "GER" instead of "GBR" in the IOC medal database), and noted those differences (such as the footnote on 1908 Summer Olympics medal count). I built an Excel spreadsheet that lists the per-sport per-Games counts for each NOC. I use it to quickly create summary tables like you see on Finland at the Winter Olympics. My spreadsheet cross-references with the individual Games IOC lists, so I am certain of its accuracy. Your Der Speigel reference matches our Wikipedia totals if you say that Germany = GER+FRG+GDR+EUA = 119 gold and Russia = RUS+URS+EUN = 121 gold. However, I have problems with those calculations for reasons described above, so despite a good source listing those totals, I would be reluctant to do the same thing on Wikipedia.
I hope this answers your message, and I invite further discussion, especially on the idea of deleting the three total medal count articles. Andrwsc 19:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
This isn't something specifically addressed in your message to me, but I know you have been working on some of the "...at the Olympics" articles, so I thought I should explain our work in this area. Basically, we have individual articles for each nation (NOC) at each Games. There are ~3200 of these articles! These articles are linked from the "Participating nations" section of the main Games pages, plus from every results page where we have used templates such as {{ flagIOCathlete}}. If you click on the country code after the name, you go to the appropriate article. Additional navigation is provided by the infobox on the right side of those pages, where you can go to the article for any other Games for that same nation, or by the box at the bottom of the article, where you can go to any other nation at these same Games.
This system works really well, but the one area which is somewhat neglected is the set of summary articles above them. We started out with the idea of having 2, perhaps 3 summary articles per nation: "... at the Summer Olympics", "... at the Winter Olympics", and "... at the Olympics". To be honest, I think this is confusing and overkill. I'd like to compress that down to a single "... at the Olympics" article. Now, this is the one area where I think we can perform some sort of aggregation of related NOCs. Specifically, I think a single Germany at the Olympics article could cover all the material now covered in:
This could be a very well-written article, covering all the background of the separate teams, the United Team, etc. I could even envision a semi-combined (GER+FRG+EUA) medal table in this article, without stepping too far into non-NPOV or OR territory. If you'd like to take this on, I'd be supportive in helping you.
As for the current situation, the idea is that the infoboxes show all the appearances of this NOC. The "Related appearance" section is used to show summary-level links to direct predecessor or successor NOCs only. Therefore "parallel" NOCs are generally excluded. For example, {{ Infobox Olympics Russia}} has links to the URS and EUN pages, but not to any of the other ex-Soviet republics (even though they might be considered "related"). That's why, for example, I reverted some of your changes to the various Germany infoboxes. Saarland shouldn't appear in the East Germany box, to cite one thing I reverted. Hope this helps, Andrwsc 02:51, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with most of your points. The "highly doubtful" refered to the OR concern on which we agree, not the accuracy of the counts. In short, I propose:
The issue is (luckily!) rather simple for us Germans: teams split 1968-1988, since united again, so the wound is healing and only a scar remains. Other cases are reverse, formerly united teams that are split for over a decade now, and likely remain so. As for the "mess that would be trying to retroactively sort out the correct totals!", there is no need that Wiki editors preemptively assess all the medal winner bios. If someone wants to have a certain count added/changed/whatever, e.g. a high jump medal won by a Hobbit while the Shire was a part of Mordor, it should be done if proper sources are given for the athlete's hobbitness. Also, I see no big problem when a Mordor medal is counted towards Mordor and Shire in these cases, to keep all Middlearthlings happy. -- Matthead discuß! O 19:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
BTW: is it at least known when the IOC introduced EUA, if not why? -- Matthead discuß! O 19:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
A discussion started there under West Germany, East Germany and Germany were/are how many seperate states/nations?, it is continued with my answer here:
Let's face it, the articles covering Germans at the Olympics are a mess, thats why I have proposed several mergers. One intro says "West Germany (Federal Republic of Germany) competed at the Olympic Games for the last time as an independent nation at the 1988 Summer Olympics". Yikes, Federal Republic of Germany lost independence after 1988? My general problem with the use of West Germany on Wikipedia is that too many people expose a lack of knowledge regarding German history, especially the continuity of the FRG after 1990. Sadly, the IOC itself falls under this "no clue" category, as they used or use inconsistent naming with FRG/GER. The move of all "West Germany at ..." to "Germany at ..." would make this clearer here. Also, I can see only one Germany in United Team of Germany. It's not United Team of Germanies, nor United Team of German states, United Team of German NOCs, United Team of Germans or United German Team. BTW, regarding the German NOC, there was a change in May 2006, when the NOK and the DSB merged to DOSB. Do we have to brace for yet another code in 2008? -- Matthead discuß! O 00:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I just wanted some feedback on the format for the medal tables on the various "sport at the XXXX Summer olympics". For example, the Athletics at the 1900 Summer Olympics page had the country listed along with the IOC acronym. (USA, GBR, FRA etc.). Zé da Silva edited the page so that it removed those acronyms and I reverted it back. I just want to be sure about whether those acronmys should be inserted into those medal tables. Perakhantu 18:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a question about the categories at this article. Since this is an article about the entire Olympic history, should the categories for Summer and Winter games be here? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
{{flagIOCteam|EUN|1992 Summer}}
to produce Due to the comments I faced at the Belarus article mentioned above, I had to modify the template to add a space where event results can be cited. Comments please. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
(Pull left.) OK, so I've started a sort of citations conglomeration page at User:Jared/sandbox5. It seems like it'll be time consuming to make up, but should save a lot of time. Anyhow, what I think we should do is call different references by different successive parameters using switches. The first would be the games year, followed by the season. The third parameter would be the report series or whatever that you're specifically looking for, like aafla, medal, etc. If specifications need to be made further (what volume of the report, is it the general report, or the results report, etc.), more switches can be used to make these more specific calls. When the last call is reached for a specific ref, the {{ cite web}} or other appropriate template is made as the returned text. I tried putting in the <ref> commands right into the template, but it turned out that all the refs on the page would show when you transclude the template, so I had to fix that. So take a look at it, and maybe I'll continue tomorrow. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 03:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
{{{3}}}
strings, like aafla
, medal
, and others because it seems they'll be the most numerous and varied. Good job.
Parutakupiu
talk ||
contribs
23:05, 15 July 2007 (UTC)It was alluded to above that we reconsider what to do with the medal tables for each games (those "pages" on {{ Olympic games medal count}}) because of the fact that it is almost impossible to keep an appropriate tally, find reliable sources, or ensure that no one number is changed or whatnot. Now, I know that Andrwsc has done considerable work to those pages so for now, I thought I would make a suggestion as to what to do with the other pages.
First should probably come the deletion of the three "total" pages: Summer Olympics medal count, Winter Olympics medal count, and Total Olympics medal count. These pages, as mentioned above and continuously throughout the months, contain grouped nations that should not probably be grouped, some that should have been, some nations that have split apart, etc, whereby now, any attempt at creating a total count would not be accurate to say the least. The highest we can possibly look at medal counts accurately is on a single-games-level.
As for the other pages (per-games tables), there technically isn't anything wrong with them, but technically, there isn't much to say, really; just the table is about it. I've been mulling this over, and what I sort of came up with is that since every nation that competed at the games is already listed on the main games page under the Participating NOCs/Nations section, why not just list any medals won there? Now the problems I have come up with with this "solution" include the fact that there are already numbers next to each nation to denote number of participants, how would we differentiate between gold/silver/bronze and should we, should we delete the old tables, ...? Now that I think of it, it may not be the best solution, but I will still think about it. Perhaps something like this:
It seems a little big and doesn't offer much room to put the number of participants (which is more important?), but it looks cool and also wouldn't show a ranking if placed in the NOC section. Just a thought. This adds the number of participants, but is humongus:
— └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 13:53, 15 July 2007 (UTC) and 13:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I know this may not be under our "jurisdiction" but it is a similar article and I'm having some difficulties with an editor there. While the Olympic Games are not the Pan American Games, I think we should have some similarity in the formatting of the articles, and the editor is blatantly disregarding any suggestions I make. I am asking you as an editor, not a member of this project, to make suggestions on that page that would be appropriate to make it look the most aesthetically pleasing. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 18:33, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2006 Winter Olympics diploma count (2nd nomination)
I figured I should give another go at deleting this article, especially seeing as how we shouldn't set the precedent for these to be here when the 2008 games roll along. └ Jared┘┌ t┐ 13:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey all,
There is going to be a big push to delete any unreferenced article ... and not necessarily through AfD, but through PROD and other means. We have a large amount of Olympic athlete articles with no references. My main goal over the next couple of weeks is going to be to get some of these referenced. The primary focus is on BLPs (biographies of living persons), but I wouldn't be surprised if that moved on. As you know, we have some editors who mass add articles and/or details to articles but don't follow process at all. I would hate to see their good work go to waste.
BTW, my watchlist was getting a bit out of control so I decided to completely purge it. Right now, the only two things on there are this talk page and the project page. ;) -- Sue Anne 16:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
May someone can stop the user David Krysakowski? He has destroyed a hugh number of Olympic pages... Doma-w 13:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for being late. I used the term "destroyed" because he changed the standard style of many pages without adding new data.
What about his edits e.g. here:
Maybe David was confused because the event pages were created with "flagIOCmedalist", but the "List of Olympic medalists in xxx" pages were created with "flagIOCathlete"? Doma-w 22:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Somebody can help? Felipe C.S ( talk ) 18:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Does this category need to be sorted so that events are correctly categorised? Can a bot do it? Is there a todo list anyway? Just wondering, RHB - Talk 21:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
In Rowing at the Summer Olympics Argentina is twice in the medal count. Could someone check..? Thanks! Hålslaget 22:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I was checking out my pictograms and found out a duplicate of Image:Olympic pictogram Hockey.png with the name Image:Olympic pictogram Field hockey.png. I didn't realize (or didn't remember) until know that it was the former file that was linked by all the related Field hockey pages and templates, while the latter was orphaned. But here lies my doubt: the main sport and per-Games articles are name "Field hockey at...", however the template page is named {{ Olympic Games Hockey}} but bears the title "Field hockey". Along with this, the IOC calls it merely "Hockey".
Should we rename the per-Games template to {{ Olympic Games Field hockey}} and replace the instances of Image:Olympic pictogram Hockey.png with Image:Olympic pictogram Field hockey.png, to maintain consistence with the articles? Or should we follow the IOC website and rename everything to just "Hockey" (very generic, imo)? Parutakupiu 23:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
With my lessening patience for the report to come out, I re-emailed the AAFLA (LA84) library to see when they plan on actually putting it up (if you remember, I last told you that they'd have it up by the end of July, but...).
Anyway, so with a swift response (within a half-hour!) someone responded and said that the priority for the foundation at the moment is setting up a Google search interface, which they expect to take about 3 weeks. By the time that's done, though, the 2004 report should be accessible. So don't get your hopes up again, but we'll wait it out and see what happens.
The person who replied also asked if I needed anything specific from the report, but I replied no, because really, I need the whole report, and I wouldn't know where to begin! So if there is something you're stuck on, might I suggest you contact the person on the receiving end of library@la84foundation.org, who seems sort of excited that someone is actually awaiting one of their publications.
The librarian also said that they have received the hard copy reports from the 2006 Olympics, but "the digital edition is a long way off."
Anyhow, I just thought I'd let you know this updated information. Jared (t) 20:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Is it a good idea to add the sortable element there? The only problem should be the colspan/rowspans. -- Howard the Duck 14:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi all! I don't know if some of you have noticed what I've been doing on this page, but now that I've somewhat finished the major changes to it, I'd thought I should present the results of my work. It is an old article writing guideline sort-of page that was a bit lost after the project's look was refreshed, so I commited myself to update it layout- and content-wise.
The biggest structural change I performed was converting the (heavy!) progress/coverage tables from templates into project sub-subpages (they were only transcluded once, so no need). The hardest task was cleaning up the NOC table, as you can guess — I applied flag templates, changed characters, and rearranged the NOCs by their attendance record (partially, because the tied NOCs are still not ordered alphabetically). I have a doubt with this table, though: NOCs which did not exist at a specific Games are shaded in red, but there are only some NOCs (the most historical ones) that have this shade applied. What about "minor" NOCS that also didn't exist at some time? Should I treat them equally? If so, we risk overshading the table (besides contributing to its size increase). Or should I just forget this shading option and use an hyphen for both situations (NOC did not attend, NOC did not exist)?
Thanks for any review and suggestion. Parutakupiu 18:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Jared! New info about the bidding procedure and regulations for the first Summer Youth Olympic Games in 2010 — see news, deadlines and documentation (pdf). Parutakupiu 21:27, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I recently stumbled upon this article. Some points made me wonder:
A quick check of the other "Nordic skiing at the XXXX Winter Olympics" shows that none of them has this info. Not being familiar with your project here, I thought I'd ask before doing something about it. Anyway, is there a preferred format for such things? Lupo 11:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
That version of the article was my work, so perhaps I should explain! The "Nordic Skiing" events at the Winter Olympics consist of cross-country skiing, ski jumping, and nordic combined. In the early Winter Games (e.g. 1924), there was only 1-2 events for each of these disciplines, so the results pages had grouped them all together (e.g. look at this edit). In later Games, we had distinct results pages for each discipline (e.g. Cross-country skiing at the 2006 Winter Olympics, Ski jumping at the 2006 Winter Olympics, and Nordic combined at the 2006 Winter Olympics). I wanted to make these consistent, so that each sport would have a series of similar articles across all Games (e.g. "Cross-country skiing at the yyyy Winter Olympics", "Ski jumping at the yyyy Winter Olympics", etc.) and this would also simplify the somewhat distracting "navigation box farm" at the bottom of those older "all Nordic" articles. That left the "Nordic skiing at the yyyy Winter Olympics" articles "orphaned" in a sense, so I turned them into disambiguation/navigation type pages that summarize all the Nordic events for each Games and lead the reader to the detailed discipline-specific articles, which have the medal winners etc. I don't know if this is more confusing that it is worth and perhaps they should be deleted? If kept, I agree that we ought to add a reference to the official report for each of those Games, and that is a top priority for this WikiProject anyway. Hope this helps, Andrwsc 15:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I made several minor additions to the Olympic Flame page. All I did was clean up the history section a bit and add a bit of trivia regarding the Olympic Flame. In addition, that same page could use some minor cleanup. I am just suggesting that the final torchbearer be merged with the correct relay. 208.107.168.154 21:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I've posted a question at Talk:Pierre de Coubertin medal, because when doing basic research for an article on Raymond Gafner (former IOC member and supposedly winner of the Coubertin medal), I ran into some factual problems with the existing article on the Medal. I'm not an Olympics expert at all, so I would appreciate if people with more knowledge and/or better sources could take a look. Fram 12:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Somebody has speedily deleted a Brian Lewis page, who won a gold medal at the Sydney Olympics as a member of American 4x100 m relay team. Could somebody please restore it as I think it doesn't qualify for speedy deletion criteria. If it isn't possible, then I can start the article again, but first I would like to know is it desireable, because I don't want to see it again deleted. Thanks! Gh 19:38, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks in advance! :) Doma-w 20:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
{{flagIOC|GBR|...}}
(through the name= parameter) so that it displays Great Britain and Ireland for the articles covering the 1896 to 1920 Games.{{Country flag IOC alias BIZ}}
will point to
Image:British honduras flag.gif (it was pointing to a non-existing
Image:British Honduras flag.gif).Valerio LG has decided to add a new template to the basteball pages, and really thin that they are not necessary. Plus none of the other "single" sport pages (i.e. volleyball, water polo) have this type of template, and, if I'm not mistaken, we are trying to make these pages adhere to a similar format. I have sent him a messege via his/her discussion page, so hopefully this will be resolved. Perakhantu 17:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
A user decided to merge all of the future Olympics pages into one sloppy mess of a page called "Unannounced Olympiads". I just figured this should be discussed. I personally don't like the idea of 5 different Olympics all being on one page. I'm going to revert him and then if we decide that it is a good solution, then the page can be recreated. -- Scorpion 0422 04:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
You know, now that I see that pages like this also exist, I must really question the need for a separate page on the 2016 Olympics themselves. All that we really know about those Olympics is which cities are bidding on them. Everything else is mere speculation. How on earth can we justify having an article on an unannounced set of games and on the bidding process for those same games? It boggles the mind. If anyone really thinks that separate articles makes sense—a proposition with which I am not in agreement—then we should title them like this, since that's all the article is going to have to say, anyway. Unschool 05:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
As for games 2020 and beyond, there are some valuable nuggets, (eg Paris wants to bid for the 2024 Games because it is the Anniversary of its last games), but as you state, many of the entries state things like "X is thinking of beginning to possibly bid for Games X"--quite tenuous. Why don't we edit the Template to state "Future Games or Bids" and group those tenous bits on one page as Unschool attempted? -- Cbradshaw 16:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the idea of a single combined article for all unannounced Games is a bad idea. I think it's the wrong solution to the problem. Basically, we want to make sure that we only mention cities that have reliable, verifiable sources to back up any stated plans. We need to weed out all the unsourced speculative material, which of course would be WP:OR. If we do a good job of that cleanup work, then the article set will take care of itself. For example, if there is a WP:RS for a Paris 2024 bid, then there is justification for a 2024 Summer Olympics article to hold that information. There probably isn't any reliable source for Games beyond 2028, so no articles would be created. The presence or absence of encyclopedic material will dictate what the "cut-off" for future articles will be — there is no need for us to have some kind of arbitrary rule. Let's work on cleaning up up the future Games articles first and see what we have. I think it's time to resolve all the "citation needed" tags — if we can't find anything, remove those cities outright from the article. Andrwsc 16:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Category:Artistic gymnastics at the Olympics & Category:Rhythmic gymnastics at the Olympics & Category:Trampoline gymnastics at the Olympics have nominated for merging into Category:Gymnastics at the Olympics. 132.205.44.5 21:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
What is the problem with the word broadcasted?? And why it can be used only for six TV stations (including Ireland)? Do we have an expert who can repair the 2006 Winter Olympics page? Thanks in advance! Doma-w 22:44, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The title says it all. Yes, I know the olympics are still a year away, but I was recently trying to find a nice, easy to read list of who has qualified for Team Canada so far with little luck. With the the qualification for several events already underway, many teams are starting to take shape, so perhaps its time to create the team pages. Is there some kind of rule for this? -- Scorpion 0422 14:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, How far ahead (if at all) should we go with making pages for the Youth Olympic Games? Also, would it be alright to edit the series (perhaps the first two announced games for now) to the Olympics template? Or would people rather see a seperate template for those games? Also, should the Youth cities be included on the string of "Main" Olympics along the bottom? I don't prefer that, but I do like adding the Youth Games to the template.-- Cbradshaw 05:38, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Category:Olympic artistic gymnasts & Category:Olympic rhythmic gymnasts & Category:Olympic trampoline gymnasts have nominated for deletion. 132.205.44.5 22:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just noticed that there exists Category:Unified Team sportspeople (plus a few subcategories), created a few years ago. Seems like a duplication of Category:Olympic competitors for the Unified Team, so we should probably just delete the former. Chanheigeorge 09:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Bosnia's current flag (the blue and yellow one with the stars) was adopted a few days prior to the start of the 1998 Olympics. It should be shown instead of the old lilly flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.31.10.49 ( talk) 17:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Heads up. There are some editors who are starting to use deletion processes to nominate articles either for AfD of CSD. I have had two articles that have gone through that so far, Bruce Haslingden ( Australia cross country skiing - kept) and James Crall ( United States bobsleigh - withdrawn). A third article, Thomas M. Jacobs (United States - nordic skiing - under review right now, but favoring toward keep). The main issue is notability even though WP:BIO has notability guidelines on athletes, even the Olympics (Crall won a bronze medal in the two-man event at the 1967 FIBT World Championships in Alpe d'Huez, France and was still CSDed before an administrator dropped the CSD.).
This issue on cruft may be the biggest threat not just to our project, but to a lot of other projects as well. Chris 00:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi! The following TFDs lack attention: Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 October 14#Template:2004 Summer Olympics medal count, Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 October 14#Template:2006 Winter Olympics medal count. Punkmorten 19:20, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Martin Sheridan- I lurk a bit on this list. You guys use some of my sources, as I've written 23 books on the Olympics and am Past-President of the International Society of Olympic Historians (ISOH). The books you quote sometimes are The Golden Book of the Olympic Games (with Erich Kamper) and my series on the 1896-1920 Olympics. Martin Sheridan is my favorite Olympic athlete (one of my dogs is named after him!) and I really am a neophyte on Wikipedia in terms of getting into the discussion. I want to edit his article but not certain how to do that. There could be a lot added to his bio, but also, there is a major error. Sheridan did not carry the US flag at the 1908 Olympic opening ceremony. That was Ralph Rose. (It was also not Johnny Garrels, as sometimes seen - Garrels was the standard bearer.) Sheridan did make the quote, however, "This flag dips to no earthly king!" when asked about Rose not dipping the US flag to the British King at the Opening ceremony. This is detailed in my book on 1908, and I've got photos of Rose carrying the flag during the opening ceremony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billbambam ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I have raised the idea of putting a box on the Main Page for the duration of the 2008 Summer Olympics over at the Village Pump. I would like to ask the members of this WikiProject for their opinion on this: should we do this or not, and if so, how? Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Olympics on the Main Page. I've put a draft version of what I had in mind at User:Aecis/Olympic sandbox. A ecis Brievenbus 18:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if anyone would object to me taking the "List of modern Summer Olympic Games" from the Summer Olympic Games page and the "List of Winter Olympic Games" from the Winter Olympic Games and combining them to make one big master "List of modern Olympic Games" page? It seems like that kind of page SHOULD exist. My intention would be to fully source the page and eventually take a stab at an FLC. Any opposition out there? I would build the page in a sandbox, and then get some opinions before creating the page. -- Scorpion 0422 04:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
About a week ago, I proposed putting a box about the 2008 Summer Olympics on the Main Page for the duration of the Games (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics#Olympics on the Main Page and Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Olympics on the Main Page). After discussions at the Village Pump, I have withdrawn the suggestion. However, I have made a new proposal for our coverage of the 2008 Summer Olympics: to create a Portal about the 2008 Summer Olympics, and to put a link to that Portal on the Main Page. I would like to ask the members of this WikiProject to shed their lights on this proposal, at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Portal proposal. A ecis Brievenbus 14:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
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