This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
howcheng and I are discussing how to utilize this category (see: my talk page). He claims it is overbroad and thus not useful. In addition, he suggests recategorizing, and (if I'm correct in assuming this), essentially deleting the category. Finally, when I created the team categories, I made them sub-cats of American football players, rather than National Football League, which in light of the fact that there is not one non-NFL team category probably means that it should be a subcat of the NFL rather than American football as a whole. In summation... what the hell should we do here? Anthony 20:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
On a related topic, I made team categories for the active teams that didn't already have one (in line with what they have in MLB and what Mike Selinker has been adding for college teams). Team player categories for renamed teams are members of their current team's category (e.g. Category:Arizona Cardinals contains Category:Chicago Cardinals players). There currently are no team player categories for defunct teams. - Meegs 09:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
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× Meegs 19:06, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Not really NFL per se, but if anyone's interested, there's a page at Wikipedia:Sports Fans where you can use (and create, as I have been doing) templates for your user page to indicate your fandom for a particular sports team. For the NFL, so far we've got the Colts, and the Panthers template I created (natch). If you want to make your own, just follow the format: use the HTML from one of the existing templates, punch in the image for your team, change the cat names, and if you so choose (as I do), use one of the team's colors, instead of the bland "user:blank" one for the Pacers and Colts. Posted this here mostly to get the interest of all the fellow football fans here. Anthony 03:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm surprised there isn't one. Perhaps we should create one... what should be on it. Joe Montana's isn't all that bad. Gflores Talk 01:21, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I've updated the infobox to reflect the above (I think). How's it looking? -- Arcadian 22:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Let's give everyone a couple of days to weigh-in on the field names, because they won't be easy to change after rollout. We've got Montana, Andersen, and Alex Smith to look at. I'm fine with it, but one thing that some might disagree with is the inclusion of the draft round, and/or the exclusion of the "overall" pick number. Someone might argue for the exclusion of the image field — as I write this someone is uploading random Cowboys pictures tagged "fair use: website screenshot" <groan> This kind of trouble will only get worse with the infobox. Also, we could add Anthony's pro bowl appearances as an optional row somewhere (I'm neutral on the topic, though I still oppose listing superbowls). It is sort a traditional stat to report. - Meegs 04:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
I added a Probowl field It's an optional parameter and right now only Joe Montana's uses it. It could display either a list of years or a single number (# of appearances). I also made a little banner that could appear at the bottom of HOF players – again, only used on Montana's. × Meegs 02:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
The infobox is now on about 25 prominent players. GeorgeC made the following suggestions, which I moved from the top of this talk page to here: × Meegs 09:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Meegs edited the infobox I had created for Carson Palmer. It was a beaut, too. I don't like the new official NFL player infobox one bit. I know it's not your fault, Meegs. You're only following the rules. But the truth is that the official one sucks.
I'd like to see a slightly wider box to accommodate longer entries, the players' name at the top of the box, the ability to customize colors to denote present team (or, in the case of a retired player, the color of the team he is most associated with — e.g., orange for Boomer Esiason of the Cincinnati Bengals or green for Joe Namath of the New York Jets.) And how about an option for overall draft position? To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, check out the one I did for Ray Guy.
And speaking of Hall of Famers, how about a logo denoting them like there is for baseball Hall of Famers? GeorgeC 09:05, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I normally work on the football bios here and I'm noticing that alot of the current bios we have are either horribly written or sad-subs. I have completely rewritten a few articles today, and I'm noticing that there is just too much to be done. Examples Donnie Spragan is just one sentence with a few words, and the Jason Taylor article is just a sad stub and I've seen much worst around. We need to fix that. I nominated Dan Marino for the Wikipedia:Article_Improvement_Drive and maybe that could be a start and maybe we could have a few weeks exclusively for fixing all those articles. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 01:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
When a player from the early years of the NFL is listed as an "end" (or with an "E"), is he a defensive end or a tight end? Woody Strode and Gene Stallings await your answer, at least in spirit. Also, does anyone know what football position Jackie Robinson played at USC?-- Mike Selinker 18:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
From my user talk page
-- Gurubrahma 15:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Is this our first DYK? -- Jaranda wat's sup 17:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I finished going through all the college football player categories and making sure each player had their college (obviously), their position, and their pro team categories listed, and no NFL player category. I couldn't find positions for Jackie Robinson, Ralph Jordan and Cliff Hare.
Category:Entertainers who played football is a bit less settled. I couldn't find positions for these guys: Hugh Beaumont, Ward Bond, Ric Flair, Richard Grieco, Harold Hoag, Christopher Judge, Nikita Koloff, Ryan McPartlin, Ed O'Neill, Randy Thornton, Erik Watts, John Wayne, and Steve Williams (wrestler). Anybody who feels like checking those guys out is welcome to do so.
Best line that I had to edit out of existence: "John Henry Johnson (born November 24, 1929 in Waterproof, Louisiana) was an American football."-- Mike Selinker 23:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Right now I'm currently trying to work the Terry Bradshaw article into featured status. But I really need images including a couple of him in his playing days and one of him in the Fox studios. Could anyone help me with those images. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 02:09, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
...now we have people computing the tie-breaking scenarios!
The category:National Football League players is scrubbed of individuals. Everybody who was there now has a position category, some number of pro team categories, and either a college team category or an appearance in Football players from small colleges. So what's left to do in this regard? I would say these things:
I call "not it" on #4.Guess I lied.--
Mike Selinker
01:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Jet (NFL) and Jet (AFL). Here are the cats that would have to be created:
Note that the Los Angeles Chargers cat would not have to be created, and I've already moved it temporarily to the AFL cat, until we create (I'm assuming) Category:American Football League players by team. I realize it's quite a bit of work, but it's for the sake of consistency. Also, would we want to include (AFL) after the Boston Patriots, New York Titans, and Los Angeles Chargers cats, even though there are no other teams with that name? If it's a matter of doing the work, I'm willing to do the work myself, all I'm asking for is approval from the other members of the Project. If it's in everyone else's opinion that it's not necessary, then I'll do whatever we decide is best. But as I said above, I'll do all the work, just give me the thumbs-up. Anthony 14:55, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Just curious... and I'm only asking this because I believe it's not necessary, but for the sake of continuity I'll ask it anyway: do we want to create two Oakland Raiders categories for the two separate stints the team had in Oakland? If we're creating different cats for each period of a team's existence, and every time a team moves it gets its own category (see: Cardinals, Rams, Chiefs, et al.), do we want to create two separate Oakland categories to distinguish between the first time (1970-1982) and the second (1995-present)? Obviously a separate AFL cat will be created; that goes without saying. But I'm only asking to see what everyone else thinks, since Al Davis had to go make life difficult for us (and everyone else). Anthony 18:06, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The draft categories are all fixed up, with correct links to teams and players with appropriate categories. Along the way I had to make a decision that players who got drafted by a team got to go under their team categories; otherwise, some of the more recent classes had no link to any team. This is a fan's link to info about their teams, so since that's part of their history, I left it in. Also, I think it's kind of fair in a they-also-serve sort of way. Note that I didn't put people who later tried out a for a team and didn't make it, because that's not the use of a precious resource by the team. Agree or disagree?-- Mike Selinker 14:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you folks have already discussed this. I noted this project's ultimate goal above is to compete with the cricket Wikiproject for number of articles and such. I'd just like to point out that I very much want to avoid doing this, regardless of what they do.-- Mike Selinker 15:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I know one of the sources of debate and discussion on this project has been the history aspect of the franchises. Well, being a hockey fan as well as a football fan, I've been perusing our sister project of Ice Hockey and noticed that NHL franchises have individual pages for the separate incarnations of a franchise. For example, there are separate pages for the Kansas City Scouts, Colorado Rockies (NHL), and New Jersey Devils. So I thought, instead of making redirects out of the Chicago Cardinals, Racine Cardinals, St. Louis Cardinals (NFL), and Phoenix Cardinals, why not give them all their own separate pages detailing the histories of the franchise during those years? Granted, certain franchies wouldn't get such a luxury, say, the Green Bay Packers. But what do you guys think?
I'm adding this non-related issue as a semi-warning: a lot, and I mean a LOT of the AFL players are copyvio off the AFL Hall of Fame website. As in, direct copying from the text on the site. So if you guys are going through and changing cats and stuff, rewrite it so it's not copyvio. It's hard, but I'm trying my best. Just FYI. Anthony 17:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a common problem amongst Wikipedians, but I'm curious as to the copyright status of football cards. In other words, if I scan in a football card, and use that image on a player's page, is that fair use, copyright, or what? (I know it's not public domain.) I'm just curious because I was considering scanning in football cards to provide images of players, but I don't want to do it if they're just going to end up deleted in 2 days anyway. Can an admin or someone with superior knowledge of this answer my query? Anthony 18:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
If anyone wants to use it, I've created a user template at {{ user WikiProject NFL}}. I was tempted to use the NFL logo, but I figured some fair use nutjob would go crazy and either delete the template or replace it with "NFL", so I put a standard picture of a football. Anthony 15:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I went through Category:NFL Europe players, and cleared all the players from the broad category to some individual team cats (much as we've been doing with the NFL and AFL player cats). Zellin has now created Category:NFL Europe alumni, and I wasn't sure if we should CfD it or what the consensus was, because I created the team cats for uniformity. I've asked him to join the project, since we want to encourage activity and improvement in all the NFL player pages, and not discourage people who are trying to help (even though I took offense to someone objecting to my edits when I was a mere n00b myself). Thoughts? Anthony 20:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've added the last few categories to
so that we now have one for every franchise×city×name that's existed since 1940. Actually, there are two exceptions:
I've speedied a few obsolete categories, but I'm so confused by all of the Texans and Dodgers and Bills and Colts and Yanks (Oh My!), that I want to make-sure I'm not forgetting anything. As far as I know, these are the remaining issues:
Have I forgotten anything? × Meegs 01:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anybody in this project have a membership at KFFL.com? I've found it extremely valuable in finding information about players. - Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 20:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made a rough possible format for all games that we have on the site, such as in the NFL playoffs articles, posted at User:KramarDanIkabu/Sandbox#Football game for all to see. Please make suggestions here. I think it is imperative that we have an official game format for consistency between articles. KramarDanIkabu 21:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Now that the NFL season is winding down, I think it is time to field ideas for a new layout for the team articles. As stated in other discussions, there seems to a consensus to split up the history sections and reduce the game-by-game summaries. The discussion on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New England Patriots also brought to light other ideas and problems. My suggestion (I have said this already) is to try to model them after Arsenal F.C., the only sports team so far that has been named as a featured article. In fact, it looks like someone has already begun the process with the Chicago Bears article. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be three different styles of NFL Draft articles going:
1989, 2003-2005 style (wiki syntax table)
Pick # | NFL Team | Player | Position | College |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | San Francisco 49ers | Alex Smith | Quarterback | Utah |
1983, 1990 - 2001 style (HTML syntax table)
1 | Atlanta Falcons | Michael Vick | QB | Virginia Tech |
1986, 2002 style (HTML syntax table)
Pick | Player | NFL Team | College |
---|---|---|---|
1 | David Carr (QB) | Houston Texans | Fresno State University |
I think it would be best to settle on one format ASAP before any more articles are started. As far as I can tell, the choices to make are
× Meegs 07:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I've brought all the tables up through 2002 into rough compliance with the discussion above. I have two more issue for discussion:
× Meegs 10:05, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
2 things that I think are important:
- J Train 14:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I just wanted to get my position in on this. I got rid of excessive linkage because the 2005 draft page was, IIRC, 37 kb, and by getting rid of the excess linkage I got it under the preferred article limit. Tables definitely need to be wiki-syntax. Long names for schools are not needed but I removed all acronyms (save UCLA) because USC could theoretically because SoCal or South Carolina, even if most people are referring to the former. Additionally, I expanded those that just said State when they meant Uof State-City, because there is more than one Uof State. Additionally, position links did not follow capitilization guidelines in the MoS and created unnecessary redirects. I think that's all I did to the 2005 page, which took me hours IIRC. Just my input. KramarDanIkabu 16:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There is now a discussion going on over there about what counts as a draft bust and what doesn't. Check it out and chip in your two cents. Youngamerican 04:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Earlier today I happened to come upon our Glossary of American football page. I was surprised at how many definitions and clarifications I could add, just off the top of my head. With the help of 3 or 4 other knowledgable editors (much less everyone on this project!), we could make this page very comprehensive. I thought I'd post on here to bring this page to everyone's attention, since I think the lack of publication is the only reason this page isn't already great. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 21:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Should Category:National Football League coaches and all of the team subcategories (and Category:College football coaches, I guess) be renamed to reflect that they're only for head coaches? The categories look like they're basically free of coordinators and position coaches already, so maybe it's not worth fixing what isn't broken. I have no real opinion, but this kind of change is better made sooner than later. × Meegs 01:04, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Update: Mike and I have expanded Category:National Football League coaches by team and Category:College football coaches by about a factor of ten and allowed all kinds of assistants to be members. Question: Should there be separate categories for AFL coaches as there now are for AFL players? Membership would be extremely low in Jets (AFL) and NY Titans, but having matching player and coaching categories is kind of elegant (compare the subcat sections of Category:Arizona Cardinals and Category:New York Jets). × Meegs 01:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
For a few days, I've been working on improving the Patriots article to featured status. Here is the peer review: Wikipedia:Peer review/New England Patriots/archive1. Deckiller 19:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I recommend this header be changed to "Notable Alumni" per the New England Patriots page. Deckiller 01:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with not to be forgotten, but Notable alumni sounds good too. What if we used notable alumni and didn't link to the alumnus/a page? People could probably figure out what the term meant from context.-- Alhutch 02:44, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Can we get some consistency in how we disambiguate player names? Here are some examples:
And that's just quarterbacks.
I'm willing to do the grunt work to rename articles if we can decide on what the standard should be.
I prefer (American football) I think.
— Wrathchild ( talk) 18:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? I noticed New England Patriots is a FA, are there any others? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks to all who helped out! More info in the talkpage. Deckiller 03:56, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Each player has an official page through nfl.com ( Tedi Bruschi's, just as an example)...they do a pretty good job of rounding up the stats in a table form, include a picture, have game logs, have situational stats...all in all a fairly useful source. Would people be in favor of regularly linking to these sites in player pages? And secondly, would the pictures on these sites qualify as fair use, as they are publicity photos? -- jfg284 you were saying? 15:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
We could link the nfl.com bios in the players page, but clearly not get the images as they are still copyright and not fair use. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 20:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Seems that User 24.48.96.44 was pretty busy inserting spam links for the AFL "Hall of Fame" website in a lot of player bios today. A lot of them were removed by myself and someone else, but a few might still remain. Keep on the lookout. Whoever 24.48.96.44 is, they are simply inserting a link to the AFL Hall of Fame, which is nothing more than a fan-created site. They are also inserting a sentence linking to what used to be a Wiki article about the site. -- Cholmes75 04:50, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
You should probably take a look at The talk page on WikiProject AFL (see the bottom discussion re Rudy Gay), as well as Rudy Gay's deletion entry. R o gerthat Talk 10:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
howcheng and I are discussing how to utilize this category (see: my talk page). He claims it is overbroad and thus not useful. In addition, he suggests recategorizing, and (if I'm correct in assuming this), essentially deleting the category. Finally, when I created the team categories, I made them sub-cats of American football players, rather than National Football League, which in light of the fact that there is not one non-NFL team category probably means that it should be a subcat of the NFL rather than American football as a whole. In summation... what the hell should we do here? Anthony 20:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
On a related topic, I made team categories for the active teams that didn't already have one (in line with what they have in MLB and what Mike Selinker has been adding for college teams). Team player categories for renamed teams are members of their current team's category (e.g. Category:Arizona Cardinals contains Category:Chicago Cardinals players). There currently are no team player categories for defunct teams. - Meegs 09:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
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× Meegs 19:06, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Not really NFL per se, but if anyone's interested, there's a page at Wikipedia:Sports Fans where you can use (and create, as I have been doing) templates for your user page to indicate your fandom for a particular sports team. For the NFL, so far we've got the Colts, and the Panthers template I created (natch). If you want to make your own, just follow the format: use the HTML from one of the existing templates, punch in the image for your team, change the cat names, and if you so choose (as I do), use one of the team's colors, instead of the bland "user:blank" one for the Pacers and Colts. Posted this here mostly to get the interest of all the fellow football fans here. Anthony 03:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm surprised there isn't one. Perhaps we should create one... what should be on it. Joe Montana's isn't all that bad. Gflores Talk 01:21, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I've updated the infobox to reflect the above (I think). How's it looking? -- Arcadian 22:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Let's give everyone a couple of days to weigh-in on the field names, because they won't be easy to change after rollout. We've got Montana, Andersen, and Alex Smith to look at. I'm fine with it, but one thing that some might disagree with is the inclusion of the draft round, and/or the exclusion of the "overall" pick number. Someone might argue for the exclusion of the image field — as I write this someone is uploading random Cowboys pictures tagged "fair use: website screenshot" <groan> This kind of trouble will only get worse with the infobox. Also, we could add Anthony's pro bowl appearances as an optional row somewhere (I'm neutral on the topic, though I still oppose listing superbowls). It is sort a traditional stat to report. - Meegs 04:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
I added a Probowl field It's an optional parameter and right now only Joe Montana's uses it. It could display either a list of years or a single number (# of appearances). I also made a little banner that could appear at the bottom of HOF players – again, only used on Montana's. × Meegs 02:51, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
The infobox is now on about 25 prominent players. GeorgeC made the following suggestions, which I moved from the top of this talk page to here: × Meegs 09:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Meegs edited the infobox I had created for Carson Palmer. It was a beaut, too. I don't like the new official NFL player infobox one bit. I know it's not your fault, Meegs. You're only following the rules. But the truth is that the official one sucks.
I'd like to see a slightly wider box to accommodate longer entries, the players' name at the top of the box, the ability to customize colors to denote present team (or, in the case of a retired player, the color of the team he is most associated with — e.g., orange for Boomer Esiason of the Cincinnati Bengals or green for Joe Namath of the New York Jets.) And how about an option for overall draft position? To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, check out the one I did for Ray Guy.
And speaking of Hall of Famers, how about a logo denoting them like there is for baseball Hall of Famers? GeorgeC 09:05, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I normally work on the football bios here and I'm noticing that alot of the current bios we have are either horribly written or sad-subs. I have completely rewritten a few articles today, and I'm noticing that there is just too much to be done. Examples Donnie Spragan is just one sentence with a few words, and the Jason Taylor article is just a sad stub and I've seen much worst around. We need to fix that. I nominated Dan Marino for the Wikipedia:Article_Improvement_Drive and maybe that could be a start and maybe we could have a few weeks exclusively for fixing all those articles. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 01:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
When a player from the early years of the NFL is listed as an "end" (or with an "E"), is he a defensive end or a tight end? Woody Strode and Gene Stallings await your answer, at least in spirit. Also, does anyone know what football position Jackie Robinson played at USC?-- Mike Selinker 18:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
From my user talk page
-- Gurubrahma 15:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Is this our first DYK? -- Jaranda wat's sup 17:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I finished going through all the college football player categories and making sure each player had their college (obviously), their position, and their pro team categories listed, and no NFL player category. I couldn't find positions for Jackie Robinson, Ralph Jordan and Cliff Hare.
Category:Entertainers who played football is a bit less settled. I couldn't find positions for these guys: Hugh Beaumont, Ward Bond, Ric Flair, Richard Grieco, Harold Hoag, Christopher Judge, Nikita Koloff, Ryan McPartlin, Ed O'Neill, Randy Thornton, Erik Watts, John Wayne, and Steve Williams (wrestler). Anybody who feels like checking those guys out is welcome to do so.
Best line that I had to edit out of existence: "John Henry Johnson (born November 24, 1929 in Waterproof, Louisiana) was an American football."-- Mike Selinker 23:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Right now I'm currently trying to work the Terry Bradshaw article into featured status. But I really need images including a couple of him in his playing days and one of him in the Fox studios. Could anyone help me with those images. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 02:09, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
...now we have people computing the tie-breaking scenarios!
The category:National Football League players is scrubbed of individuals. Everybody who was there now has a position category, some number of pro team categories, and either a college team category or an appearance in Football players from small colleges. So what's left to do in this regard? I would say these things:
I call "not it" on #4.Guess I lied.--
Mike Selinker
01:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Jet (NFL) and Jet (AFL). Here are the cats that would have to be created:
Note that the Los Angeles Chargers cat would not have to be created, and I've already moved it temporarily to the AFL cat, until we create (I'm assuming) Category:American Football League players by team. I realize it's quite a bit of work, but it's for the sake of consistency. Also, would we want to include (AFL) after the Boston Patriots, New York Titans, and Los Angeles Chargers cats, even though there are no other teams with that name? If it's a matter of doing the work, I'm willing to do the work myself, all I'm asking for is approval from the other members of the Project. If it's in everyone else's opinion that it's not necessary, then I'll do whatever we decide is best. But as I said above, I'll do all the work, just give me the thumbs-up. Anthony 14:55, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Just curious... and I'm only asking this because I believe it's not necessary, but for the sake of continuity I'll ask it anyway: do we want to create two Oakland Raiders categories for the two separate stints the team had in Oakland? If we're creating different cats for each period of a team's existence, and every time a team moves it gets its own category (see: Cardinals, Rams, Chiefs, et al.), do we want to create two separate Oakland categories to distinguish between the first time (1970-1982) and the second (1995-present)? Obviously a separate AFL cat will be created; that goes without saying. But I'm only asking to see what everyone else thinks, since Al Davis had to go make life difficult for us (and everyone else). Anthony 18:06, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The draft categories are all fixed up, with correct links to teams and players with appropriate categories. Along the way I had to make a decision that players who got drafted by a team got to go under their team categories; otherwise, some of the more recent classes had no link to any team. This is a fan's link to info about their teams, so since that's part of their history, I left it in. Also, I think it's kind of fair in a they-also-serve sort of way. Note that I didn't put people who later tried out a for a team and didn't make it, because that's not the use of a precious resource by the team. Agree or disagree?-- Mike Selinker 14:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you folks have already discussed this. I noted this project's ultimate goal above is to compete with the cricket Wikiproject for number of articles and such. I'd just like to point out that I very much want to avoid doing this, regardless of what they do.-- Mike Selinker 15:29, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I know one of the sources of debate and discussion on this project has been the history aspect of the franchises. Well, being a hockey fan as well as a football fan, I've been perusing our sister project of Ice Hockey and noticed that NHL franchises have individual pages for the separate incarnations of a franchise. For example, there are separate pages for the Kansas City Scouts, Colorado Rockies (NHL), and New Jersey Devils. So I thought, instead of making redirects out of the Chicago Cardinals, Racine Cardinals, St. Louis Cardinals (NFL), and Phoenix Cardinals, why not give them all their own separate pages detailing the histories of the franchise during those years? Granted, certain franchies wouldn't get such a luxury, say, the Green Bay Packers. But what do you guys think?
I'm adding this non-related issue as a semi-warning: a lot, and I mean a LOT of the AFL players are copyvio off the AFL Hall of Fame website. As in, direct copying from the text on the site. So if you guys are going through and changing cats and stuff, rewrite it so it's not copyvio. It's hard, but I'm trying my best. Just FYI. Anthony 17:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a common problem amongst Wikipedians, but I'm curious as to the copyright status of football cards. In other words, if I scan in a football card, and use that image on a player's page, is that fair use, copyright, or what? (I know it's not public domain.) I'm just curious because I was considering scanning in football cards to provide images of players, but I don't want to do it if they're just going to end up deleted in 2 days anyway. Can an admin or someone with superior knowledge of this answer my query? Anthony 18:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
If anyone wants to use it, I've created a user template at {{ user WikiProject NFL}}. I was tempted to use the NFL logo, but I figured some fair use nutjob would go crazy and either delete the template or replace it with "NFL", so I put a standard picture of a football. Anthony 15:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I went through Category:NFL Europe players, and cleared all the players from the broad category to some individual team cats (much as we've been doing with the NFL and AFL player cats). Zellin has now created Category:NFL Europe alumni, and I wasn't sure if we should CfD it or what the consensus was, because I created the team cats for uniformity. I've asked him to join the project, since we want to encourage activity and improvement in all the NFL player pages, and not discourage people who are trying to help (even though I took offense to someone objecting to my edits when I was a mere n00b myself). Thoughts? Anthony 20:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I've added the last few categories to
so that we now have one for every franchise×city×name that's existed since 1940. Actually, there are two exceptions:
I've speedied a few obsolete categories, but I'm so confused by all of the Texans and Dodgers and Bills and Colts and Yanks (Oh My!), that I want to make-sure I'm not forgetting anything. As far as I know, these are the remaining issues:
Have I forgotten anything? × Meegs 01:06, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anybody in this project have a membership at KFFL.com? I've found it extremely valuable in finding information about players. - Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 20:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made a rough possible format for all games that we have on the site, such as in the NFL playoffs articles, posted at User:KramarDanIkabu/Sandbox#Football game for all to see. Please make suggestions here. I think it is imperative that we have an official game format for consistency between articles. KramarDanIkabu 21:56, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Now that the NFL season is winding down, I think it is time to field ideas for a new layout for the team articles. As stated in other discussions, there seems to a consensus to split up the history sections and reduce the game-by-game summaries. The discussion on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New England Patriots also brought to light other ideas and problems. My suggestion (I have said this already) is to try to model them after Arsenal F.C., the only sports team so far that has been named as a featured article. In fact, it looks like someone has already begun the process with the Chicago Bears article. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:41, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be three different styles of NFL Draft articles going:
1989, 2003-2005 style (wiki syntax table)
Pick # | NFL Team | Player | Position | College |
---|---|---|---|---|
1 | San Francisco 49ers | Alex Smith | Quarterback | Utah |
1983, 1990 - 2001 style (HTML syntax table)
1 | Atlanta Falcons | Michael Vick | QB | Virginia Tech |
1986, 2002 style (HTML syntax table)
Pick | Player | NFL Team | College |
---|---|---|---|
1 | David Carr (QB) | Houston Texans | Fresno State University |
I think it would be best to settle on one format ASAP before any more articles are started. As far as I can tell, the choices to make are
× Meegs 07:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I've brought all the tables up through 2002 into rough compliance with the discussion above. I have two more issue for discussion:
× Meegs 10:05, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
2 things that I think are important:
- J Train 14:51, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I just wanted to get my position in on this. I got rid of excessive linkage because the 2005 draft page was, IIRC, 37 kb, and by getting rid of the excess linkage I got it under the preferred article limit. Tables definitely need to be wiki-syntax. Long names for schools are not needed but I removed all acronyms (save UCLA) because USC could theoretically because SoCal or South Carolina, even if most people are referring to the former. Additionally, I expanded those that just said State when they meant Uof State-City, because there is more than one Uof State. Additionally, position links did not follow capitilization guidelines in the MoS and created unnecessary redirects. I think that's all I did to the 2005 page, which took me hours IIRC. Just my input. KramarDanIkabu 16:40, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There is now a discussion going on over there about what counts as a draft bust and what doesn't. Check it out and chip in your two cents. Youngamerican 04:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Earlier today I happened to come upon our Glossary of American football page. I was surprised at how many definitions and clarifications I could add, just off the top of my head. With the help of 3 or 4 other knowledgable editors (much less everyone on this project!), we could make this page very comprehensive. I thought I'd post on here to bring this page to everyone's attention, since I think the lack of publication is the only reason this page isn't already great. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 21:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Should Category:National Football League coaches and all of the team subcategories (and Category:College football coaches, I guess) be renamed to reflect that they're only for head coaches? The categories look like they're basically free of coordinators and position coaches already, so maybe it's not worth fixing what isn't broken. I have no real opinion, but this kind of change is better made sooner than later. × Meegs 01:04, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Update: Mike and I have expanded Category:National Football League coaches by team and Category:College football coaches by about a factor of ten and allowed all kinds of assistants to be members. Question: Should there be separate categories for AFL coaches as there now are for AFL players? Membership would be extremely low in Jets (AFL) and NY Titans, but having matching player and coaching categories is kind of elegant (compare the subcat sections of Category:Arizona Cardinals and Category:New York Jets). × Meegs 01:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
For a few days, I've been working on improving the Patriots article to featured status. Here is the peer review: Wikipedia:Peer review/New England Patriots/archive1. Deckiller 19:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I recommend this header be changed to "Notable Alumni" per the New England Patriots page. Deckiller 01:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with not to be forgotten, but Notable alumni sounds good too. What if we used notable alumni and didn't link to the alumnus/a page? People could probably figure out what the term meant from context.-- Alhutch 02:44, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Can we get some consistency in how we disambiguate player names? Here are some examples:
And that's just quarterbacks.
I'm willing to do the grunt work to rename articles if we can decide on what the standard should be.
I prefer (American football) I think.
— Wrathchild ( talk) 18:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? I noticed New England Patriots is a FA, are there any others? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Gflores Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks to all who helped out! More info in the talkpage. Deckiller 03:56, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Each player has an official page through nfl.com ( Tedi Bruschi's, just as an example)...they do a pretty good job of rounding up the stats in a table form, include a picture, have game logs, have situational stats...all in all a fairly useful source. Would people be in favor of regularly linking to these sites in player pages? And secondly, would the pictures on these sites qualify as fair use, as they are publicity photos? -- jfg284 you were saying? 15:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
We could link the nfl.com bios in the players page, but clearly not get the images as they are still copyright and not fair use. Thanks -- Jaranda wat's sup 20:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Seems that User 24.48.96.44 was pretty busy inserting spam links for the AFL "Hall of Fame" website in a lot of player bios today. A lot of them were removed by myself and someone else, but a few might still remain. Keep on the lookout. Whoever 24.48.96.44 is, they are simply inserting a link to the AFL Hall of Fame, which is nothing more than a fan-created site. They are also inserting a sentence linking to what used to be a Wiki article about the site. -- Cholmes75 04:50, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
You should probably take a look at The talk page on WikiProject AFL (see the bottom discussion re Rudy Gay), as well as Rudy Gay's deletion entry. R o gerthat Talk 10:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)