This section of the manual of style does not takes into acoount the improvement (over the years) of the rendering of Latex in WP, nor the fact that the use of blackboard bold for the basic number systems is presently a standard in mathematical articles. Also, the rendering in Unicode of blackboard bold is definitely awful, even when using {{ math}} environment (see, for example, Quaternion#Algebraic properties).
So, I have written a new version of this section that can be found at user:D.Lazard/Blackboard. My question is: is this new version worth to replace the old one? In any case, be free to improve my poor English. D.Lazard ( talk) 16:50, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
the Latex rendering [...] or the standard boldfaceand discourages the Unicode blackboard bold characters. — MarkH21 talk 20:42, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
mainly in elementary textbooksclaim). — MarkH21 talk 20:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's useful to say that Blackboard bold typeface was never used in traditional typography.
What counts as "traditional"? And the history of blackboard bold is better addressed in the article on it than in the Manual of Style. I'd collapse the first two sentences to Blackboard bold typeface was introduced to more easily distinguish boldface from ordinary lettering on a blackboard.
XOR'easter (
talk)
19:17, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Look, I am not a participant of the maths project but I like to have the templates {{ maths rating}} and {{ maths banner}} to be merged into one à la all the WikiProjects. The merged version can be found at Template:WikiProject Mathematics/sandbox and testcases can be found at Template:WikiProject Mathematics/testcases. -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
When I look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Assessment I see a table with 17,771 articles in it. If I look at Wikipedia 1,0 Server - Mathematics I see a similar-but-different table with 20,871 articles in it. It's missing the "unassessed" and "unrated" columns; it adds a few others. Since the total is larger, I assume that the first is many years out of date, and that the second is updated daily. 67.198.37.16 ( talk) 17:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Per this Phabricator task, User:MusikAnimal in October 2018 requested that this template be changed to use {{ WPBannerMeta}} so that the assessments are compatible with XTools. However, it got ignored because there were so few people watching the page, so I'm pointing it out here per the comment. Could someone with template-editing power please take a look at this? Thanks. Ionmars10 ( talk) 12:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
|IMPORTANCE_SCALE_NAME=priority
or something similar (the parameter name might have changed),
User:MSGJ would know.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b}
00:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
There is a meta-enabled version in the sandbox and some testcases at Template:Maths rating/testcases. I agree completely with your view of priority/importance and the meta-template supports priority, although sadly yours seems to be the only project still using it. The categories are currently using the lower-case version (priority instead of Priority) but this will be simple enough to fix. — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 12:26, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
|historical=
parameter can be set regardless of the field and is independent of |field=history
. Is that really desirable? I suppose it would be redundant to use both at the same time. — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
07:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)The conversion seems to have gone well. I have a few questions:
|historical=yes
triggers
Category:History of subject mathematics articles and |field=history
triggers
Category:Mathematics articles related to history of mathematics. What is the distinction between these and can they be merged into one?|frequentlyviewed=
was set by
VeblenBot which hasn't edited for several years. Should this feature be dropped?{{
maths rating|algebra=yes|geometry=yes}}
. Do you agree? And thanks for the explanation of the difference between history and historical - I will try and clarify the documentation — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
18:38, 13 October 2020 (UTC)I'm not quite sure why {{ Maths rating}} is not working with XTools. Looking at mw:Extension:PageAssessments for assessment to work it requires the {{#assessment: <name of the wikiproject> | <class> | <importance>}} parser function. Looking at the source of math rating template the necessary code is there. -- Salix alba ( talk): 08:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
— Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 22:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
The current banner no longer displays the field, which seems awkward. Will it be restored? Also, I'm not sure I like the multi-field proposal {{
maths rating|algebra=yes|geometry=yes}}
above; math being what it is, most articles will end up within half a dozen different fields.
67.198.37.16 (
talk)
18:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I have been trying to do some tidying in Category:WikiProject Mathematics and moving things to subcategories. One of these subcategories is Category:Lists of mathematics articles which I populated with Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/List of mathematics articles (A) through Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/List of mathematics articles (Z). Unfortunately I keep getting reverted by Mathbot, and its operator Oleg Alexandrov has suggested that I post here. Does anyone have any objections to this categorisation or suggestions for better names? — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 12:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Aren't lists such as List of mathematicians (A) mainspace lists? Why would they be categorized in Category:WikiProject Mathematics list of articles but not in any mainspace categories? Thanks. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars Talk to me 23:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Not surprisingly, there has been considerable recent activity and edit warring at Benford's law with regard to its applicability to election fraud. The article would benefit from attention by knowledgeable editors. Paul August ☎ 10:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Not surprisingly!! It seems the page has been protected, which should help. Frankly, that whole section relies much too heavily on primary sources. — JBL ( talk) 13:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
I found the first example below in an actual article. I changed it to the third.
Note also the second. It seems not universally realized that one of the differences between the system used here and full-fledged LaTeX is that a comma or period after a mathematical expression often gets misaligned or fails to match the font felicitously if it is outside rather than inside the math tags.
But I wonder whether there is someone who thinks either the first or the second form used here should be used. I keep seeing it and wondering whether people who do things like that when they're walking around bump into a telephone pole and suffer injuries. But that might not be the case if for some reason someone thinks it should be done that way.
First example:
Second example:
Third example:
Michael Hardy ( talk) 19:54, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Canadian election result § Template-protected edit request on 10 November 2020. Joeyconnick ( talk) 06:58, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia's lobotomized version of LaTeX doesn't include mathstrut, vphantom, vrule, or smash. Does anyone know how to persuade it to make and have square roots the same size as each other? All the answers I can find on the web for this use one of these four missing macros. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
{{u|
Mark viking}} {
Talk}
23:02, 16 November 2020 (UTC)Hello all,
In Principle Component Analysis, is stated to be proportional to the covariance matrix without proof or source. I believe it would be helpful to show how is related to the covariance matrix. Would adding the detail on how it is derived run afoul of WP:OR? - Mys_721tx ( talk) 18:41, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I started a RfC Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#RfC on AMS fellowship selectiveness to help determine if the American Mathematical Society fellowships count as selective enough to qualify mathematicians as notable under WP:NACADEMIC. If you know of consensus that has already been reached on this and believe I should withdraw the request, please let me know. I searched through the archives and could not find a past discussion on the topic, though I may have missed something. Thanks! Footlessmouse ( talk) 23:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Anyone who enjoys arguing about mathematical notation and formatting is invited to weigh in here. -- JBL ( talk) 20:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Hey all,
I ran into this really cool commutative diagram building app today called quiver. And wow, it works really well. I'm surprised how easy it was to draw out a 3-commutative diagram using latex and their graphical editor. This is by far one of the most powerful tools (besides a latex compiler) for building diagrams. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the app can export to SVG as of now, but it is on the list of github issues. Hopefully some other people here will find this tool useful :) . Wundzer ( talk) 20:09, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
This section of the manual of style does not takes into acoount the improvement (over the years) of the rendering of Latex in WP, nor the fact that the use of blackboard bold for the basic number systems is presently a standard in mathematical articles. Also, the rendering in Unicode of blackboard bold is definitely awful, even when using {{ math}} environment (see, for example, Quaternion#Algebraic properties).
So, I have written a new version of this section that can be found at user:D.Lazard/Blackboard. My question is: is this new version worth to replace the old one? In any case, be free to improve my poor English. D.Lazard ( talk) 16:50, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
the Latex rendering [...] or the standard boldfaceand discourages the Unicode blackboard bold characters. — MarkH21 talk 20:42, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
mainly in elementary textbooksclaim). — MarkH21 talk 20:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's useful to say that Blackboard bold typeface was never used in traditional typography.
What counts as "traditional"? And the history of blackboard bold is better addressed in the article on it than in the Manual of Style. I'd collapse the first two sentences to Blackboard bold typeface was introduced to more easily distinguish boldface from ordinary lettering on a blackboard.
XOR'easter (
talk)
19:17, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Look, I am not a participant of the maths project but I like to have the templates {{ maths rating}} and {{ maths banner}} to be merged into one à la all the WikiProjects. The merged version can be found at Template:WikiProject Mathematics/sandbox and testcases can be found at Template:WikiProject Mathematics/testcases. -- Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 17:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
When I look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/Assessment I see a table with 17,771 articles in it. If I look at Wikipedia 1,0 Server - Mathematics I see a similar-but-different table with 20,871 articles in it. It's missing the "unassessed" and "unrated" columns; it adds a few others. Since the total is larger, I assume that the first is many years out of date, and that the second is updated daily. 67.198.37.16 ( talk) 17:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Per this Phabricator task, User:MusikAnimal in October 2018 requested that this template be changed to use {{ WPBannerMeta}} so that the assessments are compatible with XTools. However, it got ignored because there were so few people watching the page, so I'm pointing it out here per the comment. Could someone with template-editing power please take a look at this? Thanks. Ionmars10 ( talk) 12:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
|IMPORTANCE_SCALE_NAME=priority
or something similar (the parameter name might have changed),
User:MSGJ would know.
Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b}
00:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
There is a meta-enabled version in the sandbox and some testcases at Template:Maths rating/testcases. I agree completely with your view of priority/importance and the meta-template supports priority, although sadly yours seems to be the only project still using it. The categories are currently using the lower-case version (priority instead of Priority) but this will be simple enough to fix. — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 12:26, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
|historical=
parameter can be set regardless of the field and is independent of |field=history
. Is that really desirable? I suppose it would be redundant to use both at the same time. — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
07:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)The conversion seems to have gone well. I have a few questions:
|historical=yes
triggers
Category:History of subject mathematics articles and |field=history
triggers
Category:Mathematics articles related to history of mathematics. What is the distinction between these and can they be merged into one?|frequentlyviewed=
was set by
VeblenBot which hasn't edited for several years. Should this feature be dropped?{{
maths rating|algebra=yes|geometry=yes}}
. Do you agree? And thanks for the explanation of the difference between history and historical - I will try and clarify the documentation — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
18:38, 13 October 2020 (UTC)I'm not quite sure why {{ Maths rating}} is not working with XTools. Looking at mw:Extension:PageAssessments for assessment to work it requires the {{#assessment: <name of the wikiproject> | <class> | <importance>}} parser function. Looking at the source of math rating template the necessary code is there. -- Salix alba ( talk): 08:17, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
— Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 22:44, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
The current banner no longer displays the field, which seems awkward. Will it be restored? Also, I'm not sure I like the multi-field proposal {{
maths rating|algebra=yes|geometry=yes}}
above; math being what it is, most articles will end up within half a dozen different fields.
67.198.37.16 (
talk)
18:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I have been trying to do some tidying in Category:WikiProject Mathematics and moving things to subcategories. One of these subcategories is Category:Lists of mathematics articles which I populated with Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/List of mathematics articles (A) through Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics/List of mathematics articles (Z). Unfortunately I keep getting reverted by Mathbot, and its operator Oleg Alexandrov has suggested that I post here. Does anyone have any objections to this categorisation or suggestions for better names? — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 12:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Aren't lists such as List of mathematicians (A) mainspace lists? Why would they be categorized in Category:WikiProject Mathematics list of articles but not in any mainspace categories? Thanks. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars Talk to me 23:44, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Not surprisingly, there has been considerable recent activity and edit warring at Benford's law with regard to its applicability to election fraud. The article would benefit from attention by knowledgeable editors. Paul August ☎ 10:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
Not surprisingly!! It seems the page has been protected, which should help. Frankly, that whole section relies much too heavily on primary sources. — JBL ( talk) 13:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
I found the first example below in an actual article. I changed it to the third.
Note also the second. It seems not universally realized that one of the differences between the system used here and full-fledged LaTeX is that a comma or period after a mathematical expression often gets misaligned or fails to match the font felicitously if it is outside rather than inside the math tags.
But I wonder whether there is someone who thinks either the first or the second form used here should be used. I keep seeing it and wondering whether people who do things like that when they're walking around bump into a telephone pole and suffer injuries. But that might not be the case if for some reason someone thinks it should be done that way.
First example:
Second example:
Third example:
Michael Hardy ( talk) 19:54, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Canadian election result § Template-protected edit request on 10 November 2020. Joeyconnick ( talk) 06:58, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia's lobotomized version of LaTeX doesn't include mathstrut, vphantom, vrule, or smash. Does anyone know how to persuade it to make and have square roots the same size as each other? All the answers I can find on the web for this use one of these four missing macros. — David Eppstein ( talk) 06:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
{{u|
Mark viking}} {
Talk}
23:02, 16 November 2020 (UTC)Hello all,
In Principle Component Analysis, is stated to be proportional to the covariance matrix without proof or source. I believe it would be helpful to show how is related to the covariance matrix. Would adding the detail on how it is derived run afoul of WP:OR? - Mys_721tx ( talk) 18:41, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I started a RfC Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography#RfC on AMS fellowship selectiveness to help determine if the American Mathematical Society fellowships count as selective enough to qualify mathematicians as notable under WP:NACADEMIC. If you know of consensus that has already been reached on this and believe I should withdraw the request, please let me know. I searched through the archives and could not find a past discussion on the topic, though I may have missed something. Thanks! Footlessmouse ( talk) 23:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Anyone who enjoys arguing about mathematical notation and formatting is invited to weigh in here. -- JBL ( talk) 20:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Hey all,
I ran into this really cool commutative diagram building app today called quiver. And wow, it works really well. I'm surprised how easy it was to draw out a 3-commutative diagram using latex and their graphical editor. This is by far one of the most powerful tools (besides a latex compiler) for building diagrams. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the app can export to SVG as of now, but it is on the list of github issues. Hopefully some other people here will find this tool useful :) . Wundzer ( talk) 20:09, 25 November 2020 (UTC)