This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
The article Adam4Adam has been deleted by the decision of a single administrator with no warning, discussion or observation of process. The article was referenced to The Washington Post and asserted its notability well. An avalanche of evidence could have produced to improve it if need be. Being privy to this admin's personal info via a link on his page, his self-appointed role as 1-man judge, jury and executioner of an article with a GLBT topic is particularly bothersome. Please assist. (Backstory: This article has no similarities to previous versions; I didn't even know about them). House of Scandal 18:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Notes and advice: Accusing admins of anything is almost always counterproductive. It's the fastest way to get your problem ignored on WP:AN/I, and the most reliable way of ensuring that other admins will prefer to simply steer clear of you in the future rather then offer help. Flies with honey, and all that. Admins make mistakes, and as with almost every other editor, it's always more helpful to wp:assume good faith as far as the wings of generosity can carry you. There are times and cases when admins do abuse their power. However, such cases are drowned out by the constant deluge of exaggeration and overreaction that is daily directed toward almost every admin who ever touches a controversial article. Because thousands of other editors have cried wolf in the past, accusations now fall on deaf ears. There are even in-jokes about it now, like Wikipedia:Rouge admin. If there are real, recurrent problems, wp:dispute resolution can help, as there are formal processes already in place. But a scattershot of complaints on talk pages usually does not help, and often creates more problems for bystanders in the nearby vicinity. Particular to this case, I have seen no evidence that Chairboy acted from any kind of bias. Chairboy handles dozens or hundreds of speedy deletions per week, some are going to be lgbt-related articles, some are going to be wrongly-deleted, and some are going to be both. I believe that a very simple request for restoring the article for further work, either to article-space or user-space, would have been sufficient. I also understand that things get heated and it can seem like one is being unfairly slighted, and with that in mind I want to clarify that the above is not intended as judgment upon any editor, but is rather a piece of advice for everyone for the future. — coelacan talk — 18:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
The latest edition of the newsletter is ready to go (fuck me, it's long), and I will be sending it out in a few hours. If there is anything you would like added, say quickly, as the deadline's tight! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks great, Dev! Thanks for putting it together for us. Jeffpw 22:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
So I'm looking at Category:LGBT political advocacy groups in the United States and wondering if it oughtn't go under Category:LGBT rights organizations and be renamed. Or is there a difference between "political advocacy groups" and "rights organizations"? Almost all the articles listed in the former are "...rights" or "...equality" or such-like. Thoughts? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 22:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know much about Shudo? The category doesn't have a description, and only has 11 articles in it - one of which ( Oda Nobunaga) needs major cleanup. So if anyone's knowledgeable about Homosexuality in Japan, could you step up? Thanks! – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 00:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Is that attention getting? Keep your eyes on the main page. I moved the " banjee" DYK hook to the DYK next update and it will appear on the main page in a few hours. Unless someone puts the kibosh on it the half-naked guy photo that HoS took will be on the main page too. I get undue perverse amusement from this and just wanted to share! Shaundakulbara 01:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
(Discussion archived per request.)
The Collaboration has changed this month to Bisexuality. As we are working towards (oh so slowly) creating a FA a month from this process, I have put it up for peer review so that editors wishing to contribute can have some ideas to work from if they are stuck. Input to both would be welcome. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I never got a rainbowed eye from y'all, so shame on you. :( I've created the watchlist userbox anyway, so here you go. It's {{LGBTWatchlist}}:
This user keeps track of the LGBT Watchlist |
Hope you like. I wanted to make it gold and something else like the normal userbox is, but I just couldn't find a colour to match!
Dev920 (Have a nice day!)
18:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Are members allowed to add to the watchlist? I think all of the Lists of Gay, lesbian and bisexual people should be added as they receive frequent attention. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, all members are welcome to add to the watchlist, it is only a rough compilation of the most controversial articles at the moment. If you're only putting on something that has been vandalised or unstable for a short while, though, for example if you're having an edit war, do mention that on the page so it can be reviewed at a later date. An unwieldy list is an unhelpful list. ;) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to have a separate list to include everything LGBT-related? - Emiellaiendiay 03:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone mind if I changed the text to "This user keeps track of the LGBT Watchlist? So it matches other userboxen? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 04:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
And this is my final new section before I prise myself away from Wikipedia. Ze quilt zat was proposed has now acquired a form, with some well-timed aid from Coelacan. My suggestion is that we create a square for every active member and allow them to fill it at their leisure - as adding 92 squares is going to be somewhat time-consuming, I place the quilt for your criticism now, so we can change the colours/format it differently/set fire to the entire thing and never speak of it again, before I do anything else. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, everyone seems so enthusiastic about the quilt! If Coelacan would like to add the html comments she mentioned, I'll get to work on our community department and we should have it fully up and running by this weekend.
Btw, has anyone had any more thoughts on starting our own IRC channel? WP:TROP has #wiki-hurricanes and it seemed like a cool idea... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, it's ready to go at Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Quilt. I didn't copy over anyone's patches from Dev's sandbox, since I didn't know where anyone would put them on the larger quilt. There's a guide to using the quilt there in the comments, click on "edit" to see it. Improve the guide however you can, and go get started adding your patches! — coelacan talk — 19:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Btw, does anyone mind if we remove the linked names? I really like the stark contrast between the black and the white. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No copyright images please. Fair use does not apply to material used in the quilt, so make sure its all copyright free. Cheers, WJB scribe 23:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
... and fun! Wikimedia Commons is having a Picture of the Year 2006 contest; the winning picture is selected by community vote. The gallery of candidates is right this way and the actual voting is just over yonder (interwiki links are ugly)! Anyone with 100 or more edits on any Wikimedia project before February 1 can vote. If you don't have a commons account, you might want to make one, or you'll be voting by IP. Anyone who doesn't have 100 edits on Commons will have to post on their Wikipedia userspace, "I am the same person as XYZ on Commons" and then link to that diff in order to establish identity and eligibility to vote. Please follow the instructions, pick no more than 5 pictures (that's the hard part), and enjoy the show. — coelacan talk — 05:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Asking for project imput into deletion discussions is getting controversial and is at the borderline of what is acceptable under WP:CANVAS. On the one hand, members of Wikiprojects may have useful knowledge of the article in question and may be able assist in finding reliable sources to support notability. On the other hand, they are often likely to support keeping articles that are within their project's scope and can be rallied in large numbers. This often leads to allegations of votestacking. I suggest that we clarify amongst ourselves what sort of responses to deletions or XfDs are acceptable and what are not to avoid difficulty in future. My thoughts:
The above is erring on the cautious side but seems the best approach to me. What do people think? WJB scribe 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I see this as a still-open thing to move forward on. Need to try to come to consensus on what to do with this list, if there's anything else to add to it, and then put it somewhere prominent. In my opinion, it should go on all deletion-discussion-related pages and also at the very top of this talk page, since this is another place the problem can arise. — coelacan talk — 06:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The Community Department is done. I place it here for your criticism before it goes "live" and gets added to the page, template etc. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I came up with this in January, so my "keeping my ideas to myself" promise doesn't count. With the help of Ouro, I created an LGBT advertising poster last month, and have only just edited it in response to his criticism. Thus, I present it to you now. I have built us a website to host it, you can find it at http://wplgbt.tripod.com/Wikipedianeedsyou.doc (you have to directly cut and paste the url, or it won't let you download it). I checked the Foundation policy on my usage of a copyrighted image and they freely give permission for anyone to use their logos to promote Wikipedia, so I think we're OK. I was thinking we could put it up in LGBT reference libraries, centres and cybercafes, or just normal places which are situated in gay communities (so pretty much anywhere in Provincetown). What do you reckon? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
This project is nearing 100 members- this is a fantastic achievement. But as the project grows, it becomes increasingly more difficult to ensure that we know who is doing various procedural tasks and that people know who to ask if they have questions and problems. Some WikiProjects have responded to this problem by electing a coordinator as the designated port of call for these issues. As this project continues to grow, I think it important that there be someone to be responsible for the procedural running of the project and to respond to questions from members. You can read full details of what I propose here. This I how I propose to move forward:
Nominations are now closed. I shall take the emptiness of this section as an endorsement... A brief election (or I guess endorsement as there was only one nomination) will now be held shortly. WjB scribe 18:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I've made the category, LGBT journalists. [2] It's a bit sad at the moment, with only a handful of pages in it, but if any knows any journalists to add — or would be willing to search around a bit to find some (I've had trouble finding lesbian journalists, for example), it would be much appreciated. There's a page for LGBT people by occupation [3], and I think it should include some more occupations. I've also made a category for LGBT Muslims [4], but I think that will be a much harder one to add pages to. I was considering making other categories based on religion, such as LGBT Hindus, but even searching around I can't find anything to start with. The closest is hijras, but I can't tell if they're Hindu. LGBT Jews [5] should be easier, considering there's a list of LGBT Jews to work from. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know, in case anyone wants to contribute. Thanks! — Emiellaiendiay 03:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. I've been trying to find a way into working regularly on this without having to be more wikified than I am, which isn't very. So i was reading the various forms of guidance, and ran into something I thought might need discussion and possibly even change:
So... the measure of queerness is same-sex relationships? I'm bi, so that obviously is an issue for me, but also... I know I'm bi whether I'm in a relationship or not. I think this definition is a bit excluding (it definitely isn't bi-friendly) - what do others think? White hotel 09:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Dude, don't get me wrong, I love this project and I feel included - I was invited following my edits to the pages on biseuality and biphobia, and I have no problem with the project approach, as I understand it... I just think maybe this wording doesn't reflect that. Perhaps something like 'This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of queer gender and sexual identities, and related societal responses'? I know some people have a problem with 'queer' as an inclusive term... maybe use 'LGBTIQ' instead of queer if people feel that might be better? White hotel 10:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm bisexual, and how are we not included by "same-sex romantic relationships"? If they're not same-sex, they're straight relationships. Those are hardly under the scope of an LGBT project. A much more vague definition is "everything pertaining to LGBT cultural, political, societal and historical issues". You're trying to be too over sensitive. Perhaps if people have a problem with "queer" or "LGBT" as the inclusive term they they have external-identification issues, as they're just words. Should we make the whole thing more friendly to men who have sex with men, too?~ Zythe Talk to me! 12:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
To answer your first question, I think it's pretty straightforward - bi people are bi, and queer, whether we're with a same sex, opposite sex or trans partner. So if this project, or any project, is only interested in bi people as long as we're in same-sex relationships, then it's not particularly inclusive. I'm not gya, but I imagine gay identity doesn't simply disappear if gay people are single or celibate, right? Another question for you- if a bi woman is in a relationship with a bi man, are they in a straight relationship? White hotel 20:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
To answer your question, 'what is a bisexual identity if not a 'manifestation of same-sex romantic attractions' - bisexuality is a manifestation of BOTH-sex romantic attractions; an identity in itself separate from gay identity and subject to biphobia based on the idea that when we're with opposite-sex partners, we're straight. Not the case, and so I believe bisexual people are within the scope of this project whether we are currently in a same-sex, or an opposite-sex (or a trans) relationship. White hotel 16:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I have to say, I don't really understand what you want changing, but it might be a good time to re-evaluate our scope guidelines - much of it reads like goals rather than areas we cover. For example, what does "collect information for possible high-quality LGBT/Queer studies textbooks for Wikibooks" have to do with our scope? (Though we should totally do that). Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 14:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
“ | This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of transgender status or sexual/romantic attractions, and related societal reactions. | ” |
(margin reset) I won't oppose that synthesis, and I don't see a way to make it more wieldy without losing meaning or omitting something/one. – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 04:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
White hotel 16:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Any still outstanding objections, then? "This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of same-sex, bisexual, or transgender identities, attractions, and relationships, and related societal reactions." — coelacan talk — 00:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The deletion debate regarding the article Adam4Adam contained a statement which several people regarded as an allegation of vote stacking by members of this project. At Chairboy's suggestion, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Chairboy has been established to discuss this allegation and related issues. Shaundakulbara 21:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would really, really, like to someday establish an LGBT presence on Wikibooks. The nearest we come at the moment is someone is writing a textbook on the work of Michel Foucault. What I would really like to do right now, though, is write a wikibook on LGBT history. I turn to your expertise and ask, if you were writing such a book, what would you put in it? Here is my table of contents thus far:
You may have noticed there are massive gaps. Fill them in! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Is this a real category? It has a limited number of films in it, but would it be best to dump this category for the Category:LGBT films? Or maybe rename it to something more encyclapedic? Like Lesbian-related films? Or Lesbian-themed films? Is there a significant distinction between Lesbianism and Lesbian for this particular category? I don't know...Seems a little weird. Thoughts? -- Zuejay 05:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC) PS - I'll do the footwork if we can change this. Some others have complained about this particular cat title on the cat's discussion page.-- Zuejay 05:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I've decided that my optimism about completing List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/A-E sometime this year was somewhat displaced, so what I'm going to do is work on converting all the other lists to the same table format. That way we'll at least be able to cross-reference List of bisexual people, List of LGBT Jews, List of LGBT sportspeople etc. to create a really comprehensive set of lists that we can then feed all of our biographies into. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 09:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you know, I signed up to WP:SPOKEN a while back, but had dreadful problems with my microphone. Having now dealt with that (I had to buy another computer!), once I'm done with my featured articles, I intend to set to on the LGBT FAs. If anyoen would like to join me in this, or would rather I didn't record an article you worked on, please let me know. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I expressed some concern on the talk page of this article about the lack of reliable sources, as many of its sources have been actively discredited, leaving a lone documentary with no DVD release (making it difficult to use as a source) as the source for this alleged sexual practice. Could some people have a look at it before I start trying to deal with the somewhat sketchy verification of this? Phil Sandifer 23:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I found a BBC article on homophobia and sissys. Cleara -- Allyn 05:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
What do y'all think of this version of a talk-page tag? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 06:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
You are invited to the Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln and Talk:Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln to discuss the issues. Wjhonson 07:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As an FYI, Knowpedia is alluding to a potential third AfD on the article. I don't know serious of an intention that is but it is something to keep an eye on. Agne Cheese/ Wine 05:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
We broke 100! YAY! But, I'm noticing only SatyrTN has risen to my challenge and invited five members. Come on, more people do it! *prods every member who hasn't done it* Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, Ingrid created one at Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles. I've created another userbox for it:
This user tries to monitor the LGBT Watchall list. |
All Ok? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Is the list automated? Or when we've got articles we'd like help on, do we just add 'em on? In particular, I started an article on Claire of the Moon which I've actually never seen. little man will have to be next (which I've also never seen - gee, think I get out much?), and then the bio for Nicole Conn needs work. So, anyhoo, help on these'd be great; and info on how to add to the "To-do list". Thanks, Zue Jay talk 06:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
WikiProject Film is on a drive to add infoboxes to every film articles. I have used AWB to create a list of LGBT films that need the infobox. Some also need general cleanup, separating of film and play, and assessing. The list is here - it's not linked because I have been working on this list for THREE HOURS and do not want to do any more. Please help me in fixing all these boxes, remove articles when they have infoboxes and are tagged with our banner. I'm going to have dinner and lie quietly in this corner now... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
This is going to sound like such a newbie question...I run across a user that asked why the LGBT template goes in a talkpage instead of on top of the article in question, 'so everyone can see it better'. I told him that's the way it's done, and offered some kind of lame explanation. Does anyone know exactly which policy says that templates should go on talkpages? Cheers Raystorm 14:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
After a brief delay, the subpage for voting on the first Coordinator for WikiProject LGBT (see above here if you have no idea what I'm talking about. In the nature of true democracy there is only candidate. Who appears to have been nominated by the user officiating over the election...
Anyway, if you want to show your appreciation for
Dev920's work for this project and to endorse her acting as our coordinator in future. Please do so at:
the election page. Yipee! If you would like to express contrary views, that is also the page to it. Happy voting- I've kept it to 5 days 7 days (per later discussion) as we have only one candidate and there seems little reason to draw it out.
WjB
scribe
17:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I very much urge project members to engage in this discussion and contribute their thoughts.~ Zythe Talk to me! 18:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Greetings everyone, I'm fairly new to the WikiProject LGBT Studies. I have yet to make any contributions to the articles as I have been reading some of them to try and get a feel for the general mood in LGBT. To further assist me in this I have frequented the discussion pages and made a small number of contributions there.
If anything I am cautious when it comes to things related to LGBT concerns. Admittedly I am a Transexual, although I have yet to begin my transformation from m to f, nor have I had any contact with other transexuals. This is due, in no small part, to the fact that I live in rural Central Louisiana not far from Texas. In this area people such as myself are social pariahs. We literally walk on eggshells around here.
When it comes to transexuality I understand it from my own perspective and research on the internet. While I don't claim to be an authority on the subject at large I do claim authority as it pertains to me. Also, I have gained considerable understanding as on the subject of transexuality and the bible. My faith has always been important to me and only recently I was able to find a balance with it and who I am.
Now all I have to do is strike a balance with my parents. My mom is beginning to accept me, but only as a homosexual and not transexual. My dad, well we don't talk about it, its pretty much a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude with him. At any rate that is the no frills version of my story. I look forward to when I am able to make good and accurate contributions to LGBT Studies. -- Clay 12:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Someone has added a "Discussion" bit that seems inappropriate to me. Do we have to leave it, archive it, or can it be dumped. Please check it out at the bottom of the page here. Thanks Zue Jay talk 17:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. Sorry I had to bring it up here - it was listed for several hours and had me fidgeting. Zue Jay talk 18:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
List of transgendered people. This list had somehow escaped the project's tagging effort until now. It needs a lot of work to bring up to standard. A few concerns with it are:
The aim is to create something akin to: List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/A-E. But in the short term just tidying it and maky sure there are referecnes would be good! If people wish to work on these it would be much appreciated. WjB scribe 05:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I've just tagged She's Real, Worse Than Queer with the tag for this project. Currently there is a deletion nomination for this film, so if anyone knows about it, chime in at the AfD discussion! − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Well one of the key elements of WP:CANVASS is that posts to partisan audiences are problematic. Given that project members voted both ways in that AfD, I don't think there's a problem. Still these issues are going to keep coming up quite often. I welcome thoughts on how to make the guidelines I set out above (which everyone seemed to generally agree with) more prominent. WjB scribe 07:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, um, this doesn't really have anything to do with LBGT studies, but, User:Dev920 has been nominated for a Wikihalo, and you can vote here . . . [7] WereWolf 23:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you all know, I haven't randomly vanished during Coord elections, it's halfterm and I just got two guinea pigs! I'm doing some work behind the scenes - contacting the Comms manager and LGBT mags and suchlike. I'm still religiously checking my watchlist, so if you need to contact me go ahead.
In the meantime, I notice we have only gained 23 members this month! So I renew my challenge (except to SatyrTN and Emiellaiendiay, who rose to it!) - go find 5 LGBT article editors to invite to the project! Go forth my pretties and fly! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to get this article to be neutral. It is full of information gleaned from biased homophobes, like Scott Lively. The article has changed drastically since I edited it but I hope to make it better, it's still in need of some work. -- Revolución hablar ver 12:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to announce the (unsurprising) result of the LGBT project coordinator elections: Dev920 is now the project's coordinator. Congratulations! WjB scribe 19:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
{{ LGBT}} This template goes at the bottom of article pages and is intended to replace the present {{ LGBT sidebar}} and {{ LGBT rights}} templates which tend to clutter article pages. There is no need to change every article immediately, but as you visit articles that use the old templates, please consider whether its readability will be enhanced by switching to this template. SatyrTN will be adding usage notes shortly. For the template to include all possible elements, use {{LGBT|history=yes|culture=yes|rights=yes}} (the different resulting formats can be seen here). The idea is that further detail is given on depending on the article. E.g. rights articles link to other rights articles etc. WjB scribe 23:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
A creeping issue on Wikipedia is evident in the Freedom to Marry article and the Lambda Legal article - over-infoboxification. On these articles 2e have an LGBT portal box, an LGBT Rights box, and an LGBT Queer studies box. Why do we need three boxes for what arguably is the same topic? I think these should be combined into one box - many of the same topics are covered in the latter two boxes. These boxes are vying for space on relatively short articles, displacing images of the subjects/concepts, and, generally, junk up the page. One infoxbox is not so bad - but three? -- DavidShankBone 18:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
OK guys, check out User:WJBscribe/Drafts. Please improve it- I just wanted to make a start. All comments welcome. WjB scribe 00:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, Satyr has converted the template I designed into the all-singing-all-dancing version that can be changed depending on the article its used on:
User:SatyrTN/LGBT footer.
The following questions now arise:
As to point (2), my suggestion would be to slowly phase them out. Each time we visit an LGBT article with the old templates on, we have a think about whether it would be better to unclutter the article and use the LGBT bottom boxTM instead and change if necessary. Be bold though. There doesn't seem any reason to run around now changing every single article, but in the long run I think its best to keep these sorts of portal-style templates at the end. WjB scribe 00:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Did we decide to introduce them to appropriate articles? -- DavidShankBone 23:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I was wondering if homophobes came under the interest of this project (wait to hear my reasoning before automatically saying yes please). I went to check Tim Hardaway and saw his article had been recently tagged by us. I saw a discussion about this fact there too (hi Coelacan!). Aside from making sure that his homophobic views are present in the article, are we really gonna try to add to it further and make it a FA? Which technically is our aim in every article we tag. One thing is to patrol a homophobe's article to make sure no one has deleted that info, and another to say the project wants to improve the article further, right? I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear. :-) I just wanted to have a mini-debate on the issue here, if nobody minds, and hear other opinions. Cheers! Raystorm 13:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of you may have noted a recent problem with deletion of LGBT and gender studies templates from articles and their talkpages. I believe that the IPs doing this belong to a blocked user ( User:Nkras) who was indefinitely blocked for his disruptive behaviour (mainly on Marriage and related pages) see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive193#Nkras. He now seems to feel he needs to remove templates because the two Wikiprojects are "inherently POV pushing". The following IPs seem to have been used by him:
If anyone is or becomes aware of other accounts making the same sort of edits, could they list them here? It may be necessary for further action to be taken if this pattern of edits continues. Thanks, WjB scribe 18:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Nkras is either banned or pushing to be soon. Either way, User:Luna Santin/sockwatch (and in particular Special:Recentchangeslinked/User:Luna_Santin/sockwatch, which will show the recent history of all linked pages) may prove useful, here. – Luna Santin ( talk) 06:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm having a head to head in Jumpaclass and I've just nominated Trembling Before G-d for GA status. The backlog at GA is quite long though, so I'd appreciate it if someone could review for GA status today if possible, as today the head to head ends. Thanks, Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please tell me why this list's reference extermal links have randomly decided to break halfway through, and more importantly can anyone tell me how I can fix them without having to do it all manually? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
203.87.64.214 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) was blocked by Ryulong last night for legal threats, blanking his talk page and claiming Ryulong was a homophobe. He claims to be a gay man and part of a campaign off Wikipedia to disrupt it. From the way this guy is acting (going from simply being annoying to screaming ACLU court cases and homophobic hate speech in one exchange), he could prove to be a major problem if he starts disrupting LGBT articles (he accused Jacobshaven of being a self-hating gay man for reverting his POV edits to Heroes). Just a heads up. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 07:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
WP:BIOGRAPHY currently have 206,393 people tagged. Assuming, per latest research, that 6% of them are gay and 2% are bi, that's 16,511 individuals we need to be adding to our list (though this doesn't take the closet into account) - we currently have a little under a thousand, by my rough estimate. If anyone would like to help in this little mission, there are people in the LGBT categories who have not been added to the list, and there are LGBT lists (though somewhat spurious ones, so good sources are needed) here, here, here and here that we can use as well. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 07:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I recently added some text on Winston Churchill's page about alegations of homosexuality. I have provided quotes and references for this. However, User:Mrosscan and User:Battle of Britain, who were probably not happy with what that said about Churchill, removed my text saying that there was "No credible citation given for Churchill being a homosexual. A quote listed but no reference. Other references are seedy"
Here is the text I had included and have now reinstated: As a member of the 4th (Queen’s Own) Hussars, in 1896 Churchill became embroiled in a lawsuit wherein he was publicly accused of having engaged in the commission of “acts of gross immorality of the Oscar Wilde type” ( homosexual). This case was duly settled out of court for a payment of money and the charges were withdrawn. Also a determinant factor was the interference by the Prince of Wales, with whom his mother was having an affair. [1]
In 1905, Churchill hired a young man, Edward Marsh (later Sir Edward) as his private secretary. His mother, always concerned about her son’s political career, was concerned because Marsh was a very well known homosexual who later became one of Winston’s most intimate lifelong friends. Personal correspondence of Marsh, now in private hands, attests to the nature and duration of their friendship.
" Somerset Maugham claimed that Winston Churchill had slept with Ivor Novello (also a friend of Edward Marsh) to find out 'what it would be like with a man'. Legend records Winnie's verdict on the effects of the experiment as 'musical'." [2] [3]
Any suggestion to prevent further deletion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zefrog ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC).
I've made extensive revisions to reparative therapy over the past few weeks, and have nominated it for GA status.
As a side note, I can't find a "Current GA candidates" list in the project page... maybe we should have one? Fireplace 20:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I voice my strong dissatisfaction with the inclusion of NAMBLA as somehow related to the studies of the LGBT people and community. This is an organisation that advocates ssex between adults and minors of the same gender. This is nothing to do with the LGBT community. The most poignant argument for this is that children are non-sexual beings and a man (or woman) may molest a minor without any purpose to the gratification of their sexuality-preferred desire. The inclusion of NAMBLA or any paedophilic organisation as somehow relevant to us (LGBT) as a people does a great disservice to our cause of inclusion, credibility and equality. I resent this inclusion and I know that I am not alone, and I call on other gay, lesbian, bisexual and transexual people who value us as a community to speak out against child abuse and justification of it as part of our umbrella. Enzedbrit 09:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to point out that the LGBT WikiProject is not here to act as a gay village or as representatives of the gay community. We are here to build an encyclopedia, and we have all come together to improve one part of it. NAMBLA is a distasteful paedophilic organisation, but the significant words are "man-boy love". Same sex attractions fall within our scope, and it is our job to write about them. We should not fear what this will do to "our image", because our image is not what matters (and I seriously doubt anyone will think we condone paedophilia because we have a tag on the talkpage. We have Aileen Wuornos tagged as well, but no-one thinks we condone lesbian serial killing prostitution), the encyclopedia is what matters, and I think we're doing a good job so far. Let's keep it up (and recruit more members!). Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Please see my comments at Talk:North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association#Request_for_comment regarding the academic consensus about homosexuality and pedophilia. Vassyana 10:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Does the project have any kind of guideline (or just as good, ad hoc opinions formed now on the spot) regarding organizations that push for LGBT rights, but are definitely not LGBT organizations? I'm thinking of things like People For the American Way and The Interfaith Alliance. Tag the talk pages? Come up with a categorization scheme? Make a list? Ignore them? — coelacan talk — 04:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Note: The Peisistratus article had too many Peisistratuses (or is that Peisistratae?) in it, so has been split up. The Athenian leader who promoted pederasty can now be found at Peisistratos (Athens) – note the "-atos" rather than the "-atus" latinization – I doubt that any of the other Peisistratuses were the focus of the wikiproject so you may wish to move the tag to the correct page. I would do it were I a member here, but I'm not and perhaps you have some other reason not to move the flag. Keep up the good work. Carlossuarez46 20:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I challenge everyone this month to invite five editors to LGBT articles to this project! We only have gained two this February. We need more! There are fabulous editors out there who could contribute loads, go find them! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
/me whines: That was hard! But I've invited five (and gotten one rejection already). – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 21:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
(cross-posted from Portal talk:LGBT/Categories) While we are all eager to claim back our own, it seems that some people are not so keen to let us to so. I have come across several biographical articles where there has been "allegations" of homosexual relationships or intrest but with little proof available, the resolution of the question being subject to interpretation. I am thinking for example about Anne of Great Britain, Jarosław Kaczyński or Caravaggio (see discussion pages) or even Winston Churchill.
Would it be useful to create a category (and a suitable name would have to be found for it like "People with disputed sexual orientation" for example) which would indicate that the sexual orientation of the person has been questioned in some way?-- Zefrog 22:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, of course, that there's quite a bit riding on either side about whether or not haggard is gay or never gay, etc. as someone who argued previously for haggard to be considered gay, i think now its best to keep him as not labeled until he writes his nytimes bestseller autobio in which we get all the ecstatic details of trashy sex that i cannot for a second imagine was any fun or good. -- Chalyres 23:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Rather than calling a category for people like Ted Haggard, "People with disputed sexual orientation," perhaps it should be "People who dispute their sexual orientation." ;) But seriously, that seems to me to be the point: this guy is what he is, but he's been hammered into believing it's wrong so he can't dare to admit or accept it. I can't think of a way to Wikipedify that. Yksin 20:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
What happened to the gay flag icon in the user boxes, and other info boxes on the wiki pages?? jtowns 01:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
What is the process for rating an article as A-class? Does it have to go through peer review? Can anyone assign an A-class rating? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 17:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Boring procedural point here, but a lot of talk goes on on this talkpage (which is a good thing). But I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a Bot take over the archiving. The main advantage is that a Bot can easily see which threads haven't had any answers for a certain number of days and archive them, whereas a person usually just works from the top down. I'd like to make a request for EssjayBot II to archive this page. To do so I need an indication of consensus so could people please say 'aye' or 'nay'? I suggest threads inactive for 7 days be moved to archives but feel free to suggest a different timeframe. WjB scribe 03:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
As some may have noticed, the Bot is now at work. Remember to comment on threads getting towards the 1 week mark if you want to keep them on this page (though you can of course fish them out of the archive instead). WjB scribe 06:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've changed [11] the format of these sections. First, I've expanded them to fifteen articles, since they're moving faster now (especially the newly tagged) with all the new members. Second, I've changed New articles so that new articles are added to the bottom, like Articles recently tagged. The two different formats were causing problems, with new articles being added to the bottom and then being taken off in a couple of days when someone else added one to the top. This happened to Alfredo Ormando; it might have happened to other articles but I didn't check the whole recent history. Now that both are going the same direction this should hopefully not be a problem once everyone's used to it. I chose add-to-the-bottom since more users are already familiar with the faster-moving Articles recently tagged. Also, I notice that some articles have been added to the tagged list without having their talk pages tagged. I added a note regarding this. — coelacan talk — 23:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Excellent, that had been concerning me. Thanks Coelacan! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I just tagged three Simpsons episodes, and rather than dropping a fifth of the list, I put all three on one line. Is this a good idea, or should I have done three separate entries? Koweja 23:04, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Instead of doing x number of articles, let's do a certain period of time, say 7 days. Quite often someone will go add numerous articles at once (I just added 8 today), which might mean some articles only get listed for a few hours before they're removed. Koweja 02:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone else think this edit is incorrect? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 19:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, here's the reply:
Hello, The reason was to have consistent sets of interwikis. Some languages have two distinct categories, e.g. fr:Catégorie:Homosexualité and fr:Catégorie:LGBT. If in one languages that have only one you link both, the interwikis cannot be updated by bot. Regards, Vargenau 18:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC) [14]
I'm not making anything of that yet. I need coffee. If anybody wants to investigate whether the wrong categories were being linked, be my guest. (Obviously the French category was already correct.) — coelacan talk — 18:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've discovered several categories about "pederasty", all falling under the general rubric of ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Pederasty. Does anyone else find this word pejorative and NPOV, or is it just me?
On a related but different note, does American Boychoir School really belong in Category:Modern pederasty? Category:Pedophilia maybe, but pederasty? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 22:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
That thing I came off Wikibreak for? Well, I was contacted by a friend of John Glines, who asked me for help with his article. There was a copyright issue, but that has now been resolved and I could do with your help. The article needs referencing, NPOVing and general tidying. If anyone is willing to help me with this, I would be grateful, as Mr. Glines is the founder of the world's oldest gay arts production company and also is very nice. :) Cheers, Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I just finished adding the infoboxes to the last 3 LGBT films on the To Do page!!! Good job to everyone who helped with this effort! -- DrGaellon | Talk 14:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've created the next newsletter draft here. Any news I may have missed out? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the WP:GLBT redirect to point to Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies instead of Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Notice board. It seemed odd to me that two shortcuts that were essentially the same thing except for a region variation go to two different pages. I've created WP:LGBT/N and WP:GLBT/N to go to the notice board instead. Koweja 00:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Wondering about a possible change to the LGBT-stub tag...The text reads:
This article about lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender issues is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Can we make it something like:
This article about lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender related issues is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Or create a second stub for articles related to but not necessarily about LGBT issues?
Zue
Jay
talk
06:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure this a good idea actually. In my opinion stub tags should place an article in the most relavent category or couple of categories. We don't want a list of half a dozen stub tags on articles or the stub tag list will be longer than the article. If the article is not about "lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender issues", I'm not convinced it should have an LGBT stub tag. Tagging the talkpage will already put it an appropriate list of stub-class articles. I don't think a broader stub tag for the article mainpage would be very helpful. WjB scribe 15:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Judicious placement of stub tags makes sense...There are many articles that fall under the perview of multiple Wikiprojects, are tagged as stubs, and no one is working to expand them (I know a little bit about everything and nothing about one thing...so please don't remind me that I could expand them ;) so stub tagging seems necessary - but the wikiproject tag (with stub class) by itself makes it show up on our lists as a stub, which I didn't think was true... Ok... So advice for now is: place stub tag in article if about one of those issues, else just place the project tag with stub class... (Of course, I assume all this is "for now" until we get a handle on the primary LGBT articles, then we can move into "related" articles' improvement on a more regular basis.) I always worry about weasel words so I have a tendency to tag many things. Zue Jay talk 16:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Talk:Queer Eye is currently marked with "This article is part of the "Gay Pride" series on Wikipedia." Is there still a Gay Pride series, or is the tag something that's now outdated since we have the LGBT Project tag? Koweja 16:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I've been working on a merge and clean-up of Straight acting and Homomasculinity. The new combined page is on my user page here. I would appreciate some feedback and/or editing if you feel so inclined. Thanks. -- ParAmmon ( cheers thanks a lot!) 17:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
First I was working on Annie on My Mind for JAC. Then I thought I might as well add Lesbian teen fiction. Then I discovered Gay young adult novels, which is close enough so I added it to my list of current projects. I soon realized that it really needs work. Let's put it this way: If you thought that the article LGBT stereotypes in the early versions was a mess, you should see Gay young adult novels. So if anyone would like to pitch in, and make this article decent enough for Wikipedia's quality standards, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, — Emiellaiendiay 06:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not exactly certain how to go about doing this, but I would like to put together a small task force of editors who would like to focus their attentions on a particular sub-set of articles in this WikiProject. I've noticed a large number of stubs that are all one or two lines for a variety of LGBT publications that say 'X is a publication in such and such place for the LGBT community' or something to that effect which is a real shame considering the vivid LGBT media landscape that exists not only in the US, but around the world. The reason I think some sort of task force seems approriate is that in doing some work on The Washington Blade recently, I noticed that in sources I and others found, they link several different publications together as though they are all intertwined and it is hard to go through and only edit one publication when really the same source could be used on multiple pubs – but there are so many that a small group of editors could tackle more effectively than a solo editor. Only reason I think we need to expand these articles (aside from the standard arguments that putting knowledge into the Wiki is a great thing to spread...) is that I noticed in this talk page discussion [17] of Anderson Cooper that the notability and significance of the Blade was called into question because the article was bare bones and lacked any sort of explanation of why this might be a worth while source even though mainstream media relies on it and many other LGBT publications to gain insight into the LGBT community... So does this sound like a reasonable proposition...and there may already be a model to set up a small task force like this, but I couldn't locate anything anywhere about something like this... Let me know your thoughts...and any volunteers to help? jtowns 10:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Having been prematurely brought back from my Wikibreak for reasons I will explain tomorrow, I'd like to say that I think this is an excellent idea, but we need more than just one person in it. I'd say at least three. Is anybody else interested? If no-one steps up to express their interest in joining this Taskforce, I will put a bullet in the next newsletter to inform everyone and add it to our proposed tasks until we have enough people. That OK with y'all? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I want to bring this up again, because we've recently tagged some articles that I really don't think are covered by us. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? V for Vendetta (film)? Why do we want to add these? Specific Buffy episodes, I can understand, but the entire series? What did all of Buffy have to do with LGBT? So V for Vendetta had two gay people in it, does this warrant our splashing our banner all over it? Are people likely to edit the article specifically for its gay content? No? So why do it?
I think we're getting far too liberal about our banner being placed on articles only tangentially associated with our project. We tag to help people wanting to edit LGBT articles in finding them - I do not see how adding every series with a gay person or storyline ever in it helps in any way other than boosting our stats. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Mmm, to comment on the specific examples Dev brought up:
I think we have to trust that project members have a good reason for tagging articles and discuss it with them if we are unconvinced. WjB scribe 08:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to let you know a bot tagged film Talk:Boys Life 2 with your WP template. That's only part of a series of 5 articles, so you might want to tag the rest as well. Cheers! Hoverfish Talk 08:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
The article Adam4Adam has been deleted by the decision of a single administrator with no warning, discussion or observation of process. The article was referenced to The Washington Post and asserted its notability well. An avalanche of evidence could have produced to improve it if need be. Being privy to this admin's personal info via a link on his page, his self-appointed role as 1-man judge, jury and executioner of an article with a GLBT topic is particularly bothersome. Please assist. (Backstory: This article has no similarities to previous versions; I didn't even know about them). House of Scandal 18:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Notes and advice: Accusing admins of anything is almost always counterproductive. It's the fastest way to get your problem ignored on WP:AN/I, and the most reliable way of ensuring that other admins will prefer to simply steer clear of you in the future rather then offer help. Flies with honey, and all that. Admins make mistakes, and as with almost every other editor, it's always more helpful to wp:assume good faith as far as the wings of generosity can carry you. There are times and cases when admins do abuse their power. However, such cases are drowned out by the constant deluge of exaggeration and overreaction that is daily directed toward almost every admin who ever touches a controversial article. Because thousands of other editors have cried wolf in the past, accusations now fall on deaf ears. There are even in-jokes about it now, like Wikipedia:Rouge admin. If there are real, recurrent problems, wp:dispute resolution can help, as there are formal processes already in place. But a scattershot of complaints on talk pages usually does not help, and often creates more problems for bystanders in the nearby vicinity. Particular to this case, I have seen no evidence that Chairboy acted from any kind of bias. Chairboy handles dozens or hundreds of speedy deletions per week, some are going to be lgbt-related articles, some are going to be wrongly-deleted, and some are going to be both. I believe that a very simple request for restoring the article for further work, either to article-space or user-space, would have been sufficient. I also understand that things get heated and it can seem like one is being unfairly slighted, and with that in mind I want to clarify that the above is not intended as judgment upon any editor, but is rather a piece of advice for everyone for the future. — coelacan talk — 18:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
The latest edition of the newsletter is ready to go (fuck me, it's long), and I will be sending it out in a few hours. If there is anything you would like added, say quickly, as the deadline's tight! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Looks great, Dev! Thanks for putting it together for us. Jeffpw 22:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
So I'm looking at Category:LGBT political advocacy groups in the United States and wondering if it oughtn't go under Category:LGBT rights organizations and be renamed. Or is there a difference between "political advocacy groups" and "rights organizations"? Almost all the articles listed in the former are "...rights" or "...equality" or such-like. Thoughts? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 22:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know much about Shudo? The category doesn't have a description, and only has 11 articles in it - one of which ( Oda Nobunaga) needs major cleanup. So if anyone's knowledgeable about Homosexuality in Japan, could you step up? Thanks! – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 00:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Is that attention getting? Keep your eyes on the main page. I moved the " banjee" DYK hook to the DYK next update and it will appear on the main page in a few hours. Unless someone puts the kibosh on it the half-naked guy photo that HoS took will be on the main page too. I get undue perverse amusement from this and just wanted to share! Shaundakulbara 01:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
(Discussion archived per request.)
The Collaboration has changed this month to Bisexuality. As we are working towards (oh so slowly) creating a FA a month from this process, I have put it up for peer review so that editors wishing to contribute can have some ideas to work from if they are stuck. Input to both would be welcome. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
I never got a rainbowed eye from y'all, so shame on you. :( I've created the watchlist userbox anyway, so here you go. It's {{LGBTWatchlist}}:
This user keeps track of the LGBT Watchlist |
Hope you like. I wanted to make it gold and something else like the normal userbox is, but I just couldn't find a colour to match!
Dev920 (Have a nice day!)
18:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Are members allowed to add to the watchlist? I think all of the Lists of Gay, lesbian and bisexual people should be added as they receive frequent attention. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:50, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, all members are welcome to add to the watchlist, it is only a rough compilation of the most controversial articles at the moment. If you're only putting on something that has been vandalised or unstable for a short while, though, for example if you're having an edit war, do mention that on the page so it can be reviewed at a later date. An unwieldy list is an unhelpful list. ;) Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to have a separate list to include everything LGBT-related? - Emiellaiendiay 03:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone mind if I changed the text to "This user keeps track of the LGBT Watchlist? So it matches other userboxen? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 04:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
And this is my final new section before I prise myself away from Wikipedia. Ze quilt zat was proposed has now acquired a form, with some well-timed aid from Coelacan. My suggestion is that we create a square for every active member and allow them to fill it at their leisure - as adding 92 squares is going to be somewhat time-consuming, I place the quilt for your criticism now, so we can change the colours/format it differently/set fire to the entire thing and never speak of it again, before I do anything else. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, everyone seems so enthusiastic about the quilt! If Coelacan would like to add the html comments she mentioned, I'll get to work on our community department and we should have it fully up and running by this weekend.
Btw, has anyone had any more thoughts on starting our own IRC channel? WP:TROP has #wiki-hurricanes and it seemed like a cool idea... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, it's ready to go at Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Quilt. I didn't copy over anyone's patches from Dev's sandbox, since I didn't know where anyone would put them on the larger quilt. There's a guide to using the quilt there in the comments, click on "edit" to see it. Improve the guide however you can, and go get started adding your patches! — coelacan talk — 19:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Btw, does anyone mind if we remove the linked names? I really like the stark contrast between the black and the white. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:38, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No copyright images please. Fair use does not apply to material used in the quilt, so make sure its all copyright free. Cheers, WJB scribe 23:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
... and fun! Wikimedia Commons is having a Picture of the Year 2006 contest; the winning picture is selected by community vote. The gallery of candidates is right this way and the actual voting is just over yonder (interwiki links are ugly)! Anyone with 100 or more edits on any Wikimedia project before February 1 can vote. If you don't have a commons account, you might want to make one, or you'll be voting by IP. Anyone who doesn't have 100 edits on Commons will have to post on their Wikipedia userspace, "I am the same person as XYZ on Commons" and then link to that diff in order to establish identity and eligibility to vote. Please follow the instructions, pick no more than 5 pictures (that's the hard part), and enjoy the show. — coelacan talk — 05:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Asking for project imput into deletion discussions is getting controversial and is at the borderline of what is acceptable under WP:CANVAS. On the one hand, members of Wikiprojects may have useful knowledge of the article in question and may be able assist in finding reliable sources to support notability. On the other hand, they are often likely to support keeping articles that are within their project's scope and can be rallied in large numbers. This often leads to allegations of votestacking. I suggest that we clarify amongst ourselves what sort of responses to deletions or XfDs are acceptable and what are not to avoid difficulty in future. My thoughts:
The above is erring on the cautious side but seems the best approach to me. What do people think? WJB scribe 18:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I see this as a still-open thing to move forward on. Need to try to come to consensus on what to do with this list, if there's anything else to add to it, and then put it somewhere prominent. In my opinion, it should go on all deletion-discussion-related pages and also at the very top of this talk page, since this is another place the problem can arise. — coelacan talk — 06:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
The Community Department is done. I place it here for your criticism before it goes "live" and gets added to the page, template etc. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I came up with this in January, so my "keeping my ideas to myself" promise doesn't count. With the help of Ouro, I created an LGBT advertising poster last month, and have only just edited it in response to his criticism. Thus, I present it to you now. I have built us a website to host it, you can find it at http://wplgbt.tripod.com/Wikipedianeedsyou.doc (you have to directly cut and paste the url, or it won't let you download it). I checked the Foundation policy on my usage of a copyrighted image and they freely give permission for anyone to use their logos to promote Wikipedia, so I think we're OK. I was thinking we could put it up in LGBT reference libraries, centres and cybercafes, or just normal places which are situated in gay communities (so pretty much anywhere in Provincetown). What do you reckon? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
This project is nearing 100 members- this is a fantastic achievement. But as the project grows, it becomes increasingly more difficult to ensure that we know who is doing various procedural tasks and that people know who to ask if they have questions and problems. Some WikiProjects have responded to this problem by electing a coordinator as the designated port of call for these issues. As this project continues to grow, I think it important that there be someone to be responsible for the procedural running of the project and to respond to questions from members. You can read full details of what I propose here. This I how I propose to move forward:
Nominations are now closed. I shall take the emptiness of this section as an endorsement... A brief election (or I guess endorsement as there was only one nomination) will now be held shortly. WjB scribe 18:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I've made the category, LGBT journalists. [2] It's a bit sad at the moment, with only a handful of pages in it, but if any knows any journalists to add — or would be willing to search around a bit to find some (I've had trouble finding lesbian journalists, for example), it would be much appreciated. There's a page for LGBT people by occupation [3], and I think it should include some more occupations. I've also made a category for LGBT Muslims [4], but I think that will be a much harder one to add pages to. I was considering making other categories based on religion, such as LGBT Hindus, but even searching around I can't find anything to start with. The closest is hijras, but I can't tell if they're Hindu. LGBT Jews [5] should be easier, considering there's a list of LGBT Jews to work from. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know, in case anyone wants to contribute. Thanks! — Emiellaiendiay 03:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi all. I've been trying to find a way into working regularly on this without having to be more wikified than I am, which isn't very. So i was reading the various forms of guidance, and ran into something I thought might need discussion and possibly even change:
So... the measure of queerness is same-sex relationships? I'm bi, so that obviously is an issue for me, but also... I know I'm bi whether I'm in a relationship or not. I think this definition is a bit excluding (it definitely isn't bi-friendly) - what do others think? White hotel 09:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Dude, don't get me wrong, I love this project and I feel included - I was invited following my edits to the pages on biseuality and biphobia, and I have no problem with the project approach, as I understand it... I just think maybe this wording doesn't reflect that. Perhaps something like 'This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of queer gender and sexual identities, and related societal responses'? I know some people have a problem with 'queer' as an inclusive term... maybe use 'LGBTIQ' instead of queer if people feel that might be better? White hotel 10:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm bisexual, and how are we not included by "same-sex romantic relationships"? If they're not same-sex, they're straight relationships. Those are hardly under the scope of an LGBT project. A much more vague definition is "everything pertaining to LGBT cultural, political, societal and historical issues". You're trying to be too over sensitive. Perhaps if people have a problem with "queer" or "LGBT" as the inclusive term they they have external-identification issues, as they're just words. Should we make the whole thing more friendly to men who have sex with men, too?~ Zythe Talk to me! 12:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
To answer your first question, I think it's pretty straightforward - bi people are bi, and queer, whether we're with a same sex, opposite sex or trans partner. So if this project, or any project, is only interested in bi people as long as we're in same-sex relationships, then it's not particularly inclusive. I'm not gya, but I imagine gay identity doesn't simply disappear if gay people are single or celibate, right? Another question for you- if a bi woman is in a relationship with a bi man, are they in a straight relationship? White hotel 20:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
To answer your question, 'what is a bisexual identity if not a 'manifestation of same-sex romantic attractions' - bisexuality is a manifestation of BOTH-sex romantic attractions; an identity in itself separate from gay identity and subject to biphobia based on the idea that when we're with opposite-sex partners, we're straight. Not the case, and so I believe bisexual people are within the scope of this project whether we are currently in a same-sex, or an opposite-sex (or a trans) relationship. White hotel 16:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I have to say, I don't really understand what you want changing, but it might be a good time to re-evaluate our scope guidelines - much of it reads like goals rather than areas we cover. For example, what does "collect information for possible high-quality LGBT/Queer studies textbooks for Wikibooks" have to do with our scope? (Though we should totally do that). Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 14:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
“ | This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of transgender status or sexual/romantic attractions, and related societal reactions. | ” |
(margin reset) I won't oppose that synthesis, and I don't see a way to make it more wieldy without losing meaning or omitting something/one. – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 04:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
White hotel 16:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Any still outstanding objections, then? "This project does not extend beyond the cultural, political and historical manifestation of same-sex, bisexual, or transgender identities, attractions, and relationships, and related societal reactions." — coelacan talk — 00:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The deletion debate regarding the article Adam4Adam contained a statement which several people regarded as an allegation of vote stacking by members of this project. At Chairboy's suggestion, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Chairboy has been established to discuss this allegation and related issues. Shaundakulbara 21:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would really, really, like to someday establish an LGBT presence on Wikibooks. The nearest we come at the moment is someone is writing a textbook on the work of Michel Foucault. What I would really like to do right now, though, is write a wikibook on LGBT history. I turn to your expertise and ask, if you were writing such a book, what would you put in it? Here is my table of contents thus far:
You may have noticed there are massive gaps. Fill them in! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Is this a real category? It has a limited number of films in it, but would it be best to dump this category for the Category:LGBT films? Or maybe rename it to something more encyclapedic? Like Lesbian-related films? Or Lesbian-themed films? Is there a significant distinction between Lesbianism and Lesbian for this particular category? I don't know...Seems a little weird. Thoughts? -- Zuejay 05:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC) PS - I'll do the footwork if we can change this. Some others have complained about this particular cat title on the cat's discussion page.-- Zuejay 05:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I've decided that my optimism about completing List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/A-E sometime this year was somewhat displaced, so what I'm going to do is work on converting all the other lists to the same table format. That way we'll at least be able to cross-reference List of bisexual people, List of LGBT Jews, List of LGBT sportspeople etc. to create a really comprehensive set of lists that we can then feed all of our biographies into. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 09:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you know, I signed up to WP:SPOKEN a while back, but had dreadful problems with my microphone. Having now dealt with that (I had to buy another computer!), once I'm done with my featured articles, I intend to set to on the LGBT FAs. If anyoen would like to join me in this, or would rather I didn't record an article you worked on, please let me know. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I expressed some concern on the talk page of this article about the lack of reliable sources, as many of its sources have been actively discredited, leaving a lone documentary with no DVD release (making it difficult to use as a source) as the source for this alleged sexual practice. Could some people have a look at it before I start trying to deal with the somewhat sketchy verification of this? Phil Sandifer 23:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I found a BBC article on homophobia and sissys. Cleara -- Allyn 05:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
What do y'all think of this version of a talk-page tag? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 06:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
You are invited to the Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln and Talk:Sexuality of Abraham Lincoln to discuss the issues. Wjhonson 07:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As an FYI, Knowpedia is alluding to a potential third AfD on the article. I don't know serious of an intention that is but it is something to keep an eye on. Agne Cheese/ Wine 05:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
We broke 100! YAY! But, I'm noticing only SatyrTN has risen to my challenge and invited five members. Come on, more people do it! *prods every member who hasn't done it* Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, Ingrid created one at Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles. I've created another userbox for it:
This user tries to monitor the LGBT Watchall list. |
All Ok? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Is the list automated? Or when we've got articles we'd like help on, do we just add 'em on? In particular, I started an article on Claire of the Moon which I've actually never seen. little man will have to be next (which I've also never seen - gee, think I get out much?), and then the bio for Nicole Conn needs work. So, anyhoo, help on these'd be great; and info on how to add to the "To-do list". Thanks, Zue Jay talk 06:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
WikiProject Film is on a drive to add infoboxes to every film articles. I have used AWB to create a list of LGBT films that need the infobox. Some also need general cleanup, separating of film and play, and assessing. The list is here - it's not linked because I have been working on this list for THREE HOURS and do not want to do any more. Please help me in fixing all these boxes, remove articles when they have infoboxes and are tagged with our banner. I'm going to have dinner and lie quietly in this corner now... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
This is going to sound like such a newbie question...I run across a user that asked why the LGBT template goes in a talkpage instead of on top of the article in question, 'so everyone can see it better'. I told him that's the way it's done, and offered some kind of lame explanation. Does anyone know exactly which policy says that templates should go on talkpages? Cheers Raystorm 14:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
After a brief delay, the subpage for voting on the first Coordinator for WikiProject LGBT (see above here if you have no idea what I'm talking about. In the nature of true democracy there is only candidate. Who appears to have been nominated by the user officiating over the election...
Anyway, if you want to show your appreciation for
Dev920's work for this project and to endorse her acting as our coordinator in future. Please do so at:
the election page. Yipee! If you would like to express contrary views, that is also the page to it. Happy voting- I've kept it to 5 days 7 days (per later discussion) as we have only one candidate and there seems little reason to draw it out.
WjB
scribe
17:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I very much urge project members to engage in this discussion and contribute their thoughts.~ Zythe Talk to me! 18:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Greetings everyone, I'm fairly new to the WikiProject LGBT Studies. I have yet to make any contributions to the articles as I have been reading some of them to try and get a feel for the general mood in LGBT. To further assist me in this I have frequented the discussion pages and made a small number of contributions there.
If anything I am cautious when it comes to things related to LGBT concerns. Admittedly I am a Transexual, although I have yet to begin my transformation from m to f, nor have I had any contact with other transexuals. This is due, in no small part, to the fact that I live in rural Central Louisiana not far from Texas. In this area people such as myself are social pariahs. We literally walk on eggshells around here.
When it comes to transexuality I understand it from my own perspective and research on the internet. While I don't claim to be an authority on the subject at large I do claim authority as it pertains to me. Also, I have gained considerable understanding as on the subject of transexuality and the bible. My faith has always been important to me and only recently I was able to find a balance with it and who I am.
Now all I have to do is strike a balance with my parents. My mom is beginning to accept me, but only as a homosexual and not transexual. My dad, well we don't talk about it, its pretty much a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude with him. At any rate that is the no frills version of my story. I look forward to when I am able to make good and accurate contributions to LGBT Studies. -- Clay 12:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Someone has added a "Discussion" bit that seems inappropriate to me. Do we have to leave it, archive it, or can it be dumped. Please check it out at the bottom of the page here. Thanks Zue Jay talk 17:08, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. Sorry I had to bring it up here - it was listed for several hours and had me fidgeting. Zue Jay talk 18:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
List of transgendered people. This list had somehow escaped the project's tagging effort until now. It needs a lot of work to bring up to standard. A few concerns with it are:
The aim is to create something akin to: List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/A-E. But in the short term just tidying it and maky sure there are referecnes would be good! If people wish to work on these it would be much appreciated. WjB scribe 05:24, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I've just tagged She's Real, Worse Than Queer with the tag for this project. Currently there is a deletion nomination for this film, so if anyone knows about it, chime in at the AfD discussion! − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Well one of the key elements of WP:CANVASS is that posts to partisan audiences are problematic. Given that project members voted both ways in that AfD, I don't think there's a problem. Still these issues are going to keep coming up quite often. I welcome thoughts on how to make the guidelines I set out above (which everyone seemed to generally agree with) more prominent. WjB scribe 07:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, um, this doesn't really have anything to do with LBGT studies, but, User:Dev920 has been nominated for a Wikihalo, and you can vote here . . . [7] WereWolf 23:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let you all know, I haven't randomly vanished during Coord elections, it's halfterm and I just got two guinea pigs! I'm doing some work behind the scenes - contacting the Comms manager and LGBT mags and suchlike. I'm still religiously checking my watchlist, so if you need to contact me go ahead.
In the meantime, I notice we have only gained 23 members this month! So I renew my challenge (except to SatyrTN and Emiellaiendiay, who rose to it!) - go find 5 LGBT article editors to invite to the project! Go forth my pretties and fly! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to get this article to be neutral. It is full of information gleaned from biased homophobes, like Scott Lively. The article has changed drastically since I edited it but I hope to make it better, it's still in need of some work. -- Revolución hablar ver 12:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to announce the (unsurprising) result of the LGBT project coordinator elections: Dev920 is now the project's coordinator. Congratulations! WjB scribe 19:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
{{ LGBT}} This template goes at the bottom of article pages and is intended to replace the present {{ LGBT sidebar}} and {{ LGBT rights}} templates which tend to clutter article pages. There is no need to change every article immediately, but as you visit articles that use the old templates, please consider whether its readability will be enhanced by switching to this template. SatyrTN will be adding usage notes shortly. For the template to include all possible elements, use {{LGBT|history=yes|culture=yes|rights=yes}} (the different resulting formats can be seen here). The idea is that further detail is given on depending on the article. E.g. rights articles link to other rights articles etc. WjB scribe 23:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
A creeping issue on Wikipedia is evident in the Freedom to Marry article and the Lambda Legal article - over-infoboxification. On these articles 2e have an LGBT portal box, an LGBT Rights box, and an LGBT Queer studies box. Why do we need three boxes for what arguably is the same topic? I think these should be combined into one box - many of the same topics are covered in the latter two boxes. These boxes are vying for space on relatively short articles, displacing images of the subjects/concepts, and, generally, junk up the page. One infoxbox is not so bad - but three? -- DavidShankBone 18:15, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
OK guys, check out User:WJBscribe/Drafts. Please improve it- I just wanted to make a start. All comments welcome. WjB scribe 00:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, Satyr has converted the template I designed into the all-singing-all-dancing version that can be changed depending on the article its used on:
User:SatyrTN/LGBT footer.
The following questions now arise:
As to point (2), my suggestion would be to slowly phase them out. Each time we visit an LGBT article with the old templates on, we have a think about whether it would be better to unclutter the article and use the LGBT bottom boxTM instead and change if necessary. Be bold though. There doesn't seem any reason to run around now changing every single article, but in the long run I think its best to keep these sorts of portal-style templates at the end. WjB scribe 00:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Did we decide to introduce them to appropriate articles? -- DavidShankBone 23:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I was wondering if homophobes came under the interest of this project (wait to hear my reasoning before automatically saying yes please). I went to check Tim Hardaway and saw his article had been recently tagged by us. I saw a discussion about this fact there too (hi Coelacan!). Aside from making sure that his homophobic views are present in the article, are we really gonna try to add to it further and make it a FA? Which technically is our aim in every article we tag. One thing is to patrol a homophobe's article to make sure no one has deleted that info, and another to say the project wants to improve the article further, right? I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear. :-) I just wanted to have a mini-debate on the issue here, if nobody minds, and hear other opinions. Cheers! Raystorm 13:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of you may have noted a recent problem with deletion of LGBT and gender studies templates from articles and their talkpages. I believe that the IPs doing this belong to a blocked user ( User:Nkras) who was indefinitely blocked for his disruptive behaviour (mainly on Marriage and related pages) see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive193#Nkras. He now seems to feel he needs to remove templates because the two Wikiprojects are "inherently POV pushing". The following IPs seem to have been used by him:
If anyone is or becomes aware of other accounts making the same sort of edits, could they list them here? It may be necessary for further action to be taken if this pattern of edits continues. Thanks, WjB scribe 18:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Nkras is either banned or pushing to be soon. Either way, User:Luna Santin/sockwatch (and in particular Special:Recentchangeslinked/User:Luna_Santin/sockwatch, which will show the recent history of all linked pages) may prove useful, here. – Luna Santin ( talk) 06:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm having a head to head in Jumpaclass and I've just nominated Trembling Before G-d for GA status. The backlog at GA is quite long though, so I'd appreciate it if someone could review for GA status today if possible, as today the head to head ends. Thanks, Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please tell me why this list's reference extermal links have randomly decided to break halfway through, and more importantly can anyone tell me how I can fix them without having to do it all manually? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
203.87.64.214 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) was blocked by Ryulong last night for legal threats, blanking his talk page and claiming Ryulong was a homophobe. He claims to be a gay man and part of a campaign off Wikipedia to disrupt it. From the way this guy is acting (going from simply being annoying to screaming ACLU court cases and homophobic hate speech in one exchange), he could prove to be a major problem if he starts disrupting LGBT articles (he accused Jacobshaven of being a self-hating gay man for reverting his POV edits to Heroes). Just a heads up. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 07:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
WP:BIOGRAPHY currently have 206,393 people tagged. Assuming, per latest research, that 6% of them are gay and 2% are bi, that's 16,511 individuals we need to be adding to our list (though this doesn't take the closet into account) - we currently have a little under a thousand, by my rough estimate. If anyone would like to help in this little mission, there are people in the LGBT categories who have not been added to the list, and there are LGBT lists (though somewhat spurious ones, so good sources are needed) here, here, here and here that we can use as well. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 07:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I recently added some text on Winston Churchill's page about alegations of homosexuality. I have provided quotes and references for this. However, User:Mrosscan and User:Battle of Britain, who were probably not happy with what that said about Churchill, removed my text saying that there was "No credible citation given for Churchill being a homosexual. A quote listed but no reference. Other references are seedy"
Here is the text I had included and have now reinstated: As a member of the 4th (Queen’s Own) Hussars, in 1896 Churchill became embroiled in a lawsuit wherein he was publicly accused of having engaged in the commission of “acts of gross immorality of the Oscar Wilde type” ( homosexual). This case was duly settled out of court for a payment of money and the charges were withdrawn. Also a determinant factor was the interference by the Prince of Wales, with whom his mother was having an affair. [1]
In 1905, Churchill hired a young man, Edward Marsh (later Sir Edward) as his private secretary. His mother, always concerned about her son’s political career, was concerned because Marsh was a very well known homosexual who later became one of Winston’s most intimate lifelong friends. Personal correspondence of Marsh, now in private hands, attests to the nature and duration of their friendship.
" Somerset Maugham claimed that Winston Churchill had slept with Ivor Novello (also a friend of Edward Marsh) to find out 'what it would be like with a man'. Legend records Winnie's verdict on the effects of the experiment as 'musical'." [2] [3]
Any suggestion to prevent further deletion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zefrog ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC).
I've made extensive revisions to reparative therapy over the past few weeks, and have nominated it for GA status.
As a side note, I can't find a "Current GA candidates" list in the project page... maybe we should have one? Fireplace 20:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I voice my strong dissatisfaction with the inclusion of NAMBLA as somehow related to the studies of the LGBT people and community. This is an organisation that advocates ssex between adults and minors of the same gender. This is nothing to do with the LGBT community. The most poignant argument for this is that children are non-sexual beings and a man (or woman) may molest a minor without any purpose to the gratification of their sexuality-preferred desire. The inclusion of NAMBLA or any paedophilic organisation as somehow relevant to us (LGBT) as a people does a great disservice to our cause of inclusion, credibility and equality. I resent this inclusion and I know that I am not alone, and I call on other gay, lesbian, bisexual and transexual people who value us as a community to speak out against child abuse and justification of it as part of our umbrella. Enzedbrit 09:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to point out that the LGBT WikiProject is not here to act as a gay village or as representatives of the gay community. We are here to build an encyclopedia, and we have all come together to improve one part of it. NAMBLA is a distasteful paedophilic organisation, but the significant words are "man-boy love". Same sex attractions fall within our scope, and it is our job to write about them. We should not fear what this will do to "our image", because our image is not what matters (and I seriously doubt anyone will think we condone paedophilia because we have a tag on the talkpage. We have Aileen Wuornos tagged as well, but no-one thinks we condone lesbian serial killing prostitution), the encyclopedia is what matters, and I think we're doing a good job so far. Let's keep it up (and recruit more members!). Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Please see my comments at Talk:North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association#Request_for_comment regarding the academic consensus about homosexuality and pedophilia. Vassyana 10:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Does the project have any kind of guideline (or just as good, ad hoc opinions formed now on the spot) regarding organizations that push for LGBT rights, but are definitely not LGBT organizations? I'm thinking of things like People For the American Way and The Interfaith Alliance. Tag the talk pages? Come up with a categorization scheme? Make a list? Ignore them? — coelacan talk — 04:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Note: The Peisistratus article had too many Peisistratuses (or is that Peisistratae?) in it, so has been split up. The Athenian leader who promoted pederasty can now be found at Peisistratos (Athens) – note the "-atos" rather than the "-atus" latinization – I doubt that any of the other Peisistratuses were the focus of the wikiproject so you may wish to move the tag to the correct page. I would do it were I a member here, but I'm not and perhaps you have some other reason not to move the flag. Keep up the good work. Carlossuarez46 20:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I challenge everyone this month to invite five editors to LGBT articles to this project! We only have gained two this February. We need more! There are fabulous editors out there who could contribute loads, go find them! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
/me whines: That was hard! But I've invited five (and gotten one rejection already). – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 21:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
(cross-posted from Portal talk:LGBT/Categories) While we are all eager to claim back our own, it seems that some people are not so keen to let us to so. I have come across several biographical articles where there has been "allegations" of homosexual relationships or intrest but with little proof available, the resolution of the question being subject to interpretation. I am thinking for example about Anne of Great Britain, Jarosław Kaczyński or Caravaggio (see discussion pages) or even Winston Churchill.
Would it be useful to create a category (and a suitable name would have to be found for it like "People with disputed sexual orientation" for example) which would indicate that the sexual orientation of the person has been questioned in some way?-- Zefrog 22:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
The problem is, of course, that there's quite a bit riding on either side about whether or not haggard is gay or never gay, etc. as someone who argued previously for haggard to be considered gay, i think now its best to keep him as not labeled until he writes his nytimes bestseller autobio in which we get all the ecstatic details of trashy sex that i cannot for a second imagine was any fun or good. -- Chalyres 23:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Rather than calling a category for people like Ted Haggard, "People with disputed sexual orientation," perhaps it should be "People who dispute their sexual orientation." ;) But seriously, that seems to me to be the point: this guy is what he is, but he's been hammered into believing it's wrong so he can't dare to admit or accept it. I can't think of a way to Wikipedify that. Yksin 20:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
What happened to the gay flag icon in the user boxes, and other info boxes on the wiki pages?? jtowns 01:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
What is the process for rating an article as A-class? Does it have to go through peer review? Can anyone assign an A-class rating? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 17:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Boring procedural point here, but a lot of talk goes on on this talkpage (which is a good thing). But I was thinking it might be a good idea to have a Bot take over the archiving. The main advantage is that a Bot can easily see which threads haven't had any answers for a certain number of days and archive them, whereas a person usually just works from the top down. I'd like to make a request for EssjayBot II to archive this page. To do so I need an indication of consensus so could people please say 'aye' or 'nay'? I suggest threads inactive for 7 days be moved to archives but feel free to suggest a different timeframe. WjB scribe 03:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
As some may have noticed, the Bot is now at work. Remember to comment on threads getting towards the 1 week mark if you want to keep them on this page (though you can of course fish them out of the archive instead). WjB scribe 06:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've changed [11] the format of these sections. First, I've expanded them to fifteen articles, since they're moving faster now (especially the newly tagged) with all the new members. Second, I've changed New articles so that new articles are added to the bottom, like Articles recently tagged. The two different formats were causing problems, with new articles being added to the bottom and then being taken off in a couple of days when someone else added one to the top. This happened to Alfredo Ormando; it might have happened to other articles but I didn't check the whole recent history. Now that both are going the same direction this should hopefully not be a problem once everyone's used to it. I chose add-to-the-bottom since more users are already familiar with the faster-moving Articles recently tagged. Also, I notice that some articles have been added to the tagged list without having their talk pages tagged. I added a note regarding this. — coelacan talk — 23:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Excellent, that had been concerning me. Thanks Coelacan! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I just tagged three Simpsons episodes, and rather than dropping a fifth of the list, I put all three on one line. Is this a good idea, or should I have done three separate entries? Koweja 23:04, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Instead of doing x number of articles, let's do a certain period of time, say 7 days. Quite often someone will go add numerous articles at once (I just added 8 today), which might mean some articles only get listed for a few hours before they're removed. Koweja 02:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone else think this edit is incorrect? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 19:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, here's the reply:
Hello, The reason was to have consistent sets of interwikis. Some languages have two distinct categories, e.g. fr:Catégorie:Homosexualité and fr:Catégorie:LGBT. If in one languages that have only one you link both, the interwikis cannot be updated by bot. Regards, Vargenau 18:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC) [14]
I'm not making anything of that yet. I need coffee. If anybody wants to investigate whether the wrong categories were being linked, be my guest. (Obviously the French category was already correct.) — coelacan talk — 18:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I've discovered several categories about "pederasty", all falling under the general rubric of ‹The template Category link is being considered for merging.› Category:Pederasty. Does anyone else find this word pejorative and NPOV, or is it just me?
On a related but different note, does American Boychoir School really belong in Category:Modern pederasty? Category:Pedophilia maybe, but pederasty? – SatyrTN ( talk | contribs) 22:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
That thing I came off Wikibreak for? Well, I was contacted by a friend of John Glines, who asked me for help with his article. There was a copyright issue, but that has now been resolved and I could do with your help. The article needs referencing, NPOVing and general tidying. If anyone is willing to help me with this, I would be grateful, as Mr. Glines is the founder of the world's oldest gay arts production company and also is very nice. :) Cheers, Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I just finished adding the infoboxes to the last 3 LGBT films on the To Do page!!! Good job to everyone who helped with this effort! -- DrGaellon | Talk 14:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've created the next newsletter draft here. Any news I may have missed out? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the WP:GLBT redirect to point to Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies instead of Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Notice board. It seemed odd to me that two shortcuts that were essentially the same thing except for a region variation go to two different pages. I've created WP:LGBT/N and WP:GLBT/N to go to the notice board instead. Koweja 00:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Wondering about a possible change to the LGBT-stub tag...The text reads:
This article about lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender issues is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Can we make it something like:
This article about lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender related issues is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.
Or create a second stub for articles related to but not necessarily about LGBT issues?
Zue
Jay
talk
06:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure this a good idea actually. In my opinion stub tags should place an article in the most relavent category or couple of categories. We don't want a list of half a dozen stub tags on articles or the stub tag list will be longer than the article. If the article is not about "lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender issues", I'm not convinced it should have an LGBT stub tag. Tagging the talkpage will already put it an appropriate list of stub-class articles. I don't think a broader stub tag for the article mainpage would be very helpful. WjB scribe 15:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Judicious placement of stub tags makes sense...There are many articles that fall under the perview of multiple Wikiprojects, are tagged as stubs, and no one is working to expand them (I know a little bit about everything and nothing about one thing...so please don't remind me that I could expand them ;) so stub tagging seems necessary - but the wikiproject tag (with stub class) by itself makes it show up on our lists as a stub, which I didn't think was true... Ok... So advice for now is: place stub tag in article if about one of those issues, else just place the project tag with stub class... (Of course, I assume all this is "for now" until we get a handle on the primary LGBT articles, then we can move into "related" articles' improvement on a more regular basis.) I always worry about weasel words so I have a tendency to tag many things. Zue Jay talk 16:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Talk:Queer Eye is currently marked with "This article is part of the "Gay Pride" series on Wikipedia." Is there still a Gay Pride series, or is the tag something that's now outdated since we have the LGBT Project tag? Koweja 16:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I've been working on a merge and clean-up of Straight acting and Homomasculinity. The new combined page is on my user page here. I would appreciate some feedback and/or editing if you feel so inclined. Thanks. -- ParAmmon ( cheers thanks a lot!) 17:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
First I was working on Annie on My Mind for JAC. Then I thought I might as well add Lesbian teen fiction. Then I discovered Gay young adult novels, which is close enough so I added it to my list of current projects. I soon realized that it really needs work. Let's put it this way: If you thought that the article LGBT stereotypes in the early versions was a mess, you should see Gay young adult novels. So if anyone would like to pitch in, and make this article decent enough for Wikipedia's quality standards, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, — Emiellaiendiay 06:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not exactly certain how to go about doing this, but I would like to put together a small task force of editors who would like to focus their attentions on a particular sub-set of articles in this WikiProject. I've noticed a large number of stubs that are all one or two lines for a variety of LGBT publications that say 'X is a publication in such and such place for the LGBT community' or something to that effect which is a real shame considering the vivid LGBT media landscape that exists not only in the US, but around the world. The reason I think some sort of task force seems approriate is that in doing some work on The Washington Blade recently, I noticed that in sources I and others found, they link several different publications together as though they are all intertwined and it is hard to go through and only edit one publication when really the same source could be used on multiple pubs – but there are so many that a small group of editors could tackle more effectively than a solo editor. Only reason I think we need to expand these articles (aside from the standard arguments that putting knowledge into the Wiki is a great thing to spread...) is that I noticed in this talk page discussion [17] of Anderson Cooper that the notability and significance of the Blade was called into question because the article was bare bones and lacked any sort of explanation of why this might be a worth while source even though mainstream media relies on it and many other LGBT publications to gain insight into the LGBT community... So does this sound like a reasonable proposition...and there may already be a model to set up a small task force like this, but I couldn't locate anything anywhere about something like this... Let me know your thoughts...and any volunteers to help? jtowns 10:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Having been prematurely brought back from my Wikibreak for reasons I will explain tomorrow, I'd like to say that I think this is an excellent idea, but we need more than just one person in it. I'd say at least three. Is anybody else interested? If no-one steps up to express their interest in joining this Taskforce, I will put a bullet in the next newsletter to inform everyone and add it to our proposed tasks until we have enough people. That OK with y'all? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I want to bring this up again, because we've recently tagged some articles that I really don't think are covered by us. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? V for Vendetta (film)? Why do we want to add these? Specific Buffy episodes, I can understand, but the entire series? What did all of Buffy have to do with LGBT? So V for Vendetta had two gay people in it, does this warrant our splashing our banner all over it? Are people likely to edit the article specifically for its gay content? No? So why do it?
I think we're getting far too liberal about our banner being placed on articles only tangentially associated with our project. We tag to help people wanting to edit LGBT articles in finding them - I do not see how adding every series with a gay person or storyline ever in it helps in any way other than boosting our stats. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:53, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Mmm, to comment on the specific examples Dev brought up:
I think we have to trust that project members have a good reason for tagging articles and discuss it with them if we are unconvinced. WjB scribe 08:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I just wanted to let you know a bot tagged film Talk:Boys Life 2 with your WP template. That's only part of a series of 5 articles, so you might want to tag the rest as well. Cheers! Hoverfish Talk 08:42, 28 February 2007 (UTC)