This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | → | Archive 20 |
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot ( Disable) 21:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
heads up for other LGBT topics editors... there is a new navbox live at Template:LGBT slang for English LGBT slang terms (with links at the bottom to Japanese and Singapore terms). If you would like to check it out and make any corrections or additions, it is at Template:LGBT slang. The other day I added copy-to-wiktionary tags to a few slang entries ( Acault, BGM (slang), Bean queen, Fag stag, Opera queen, Potato Queen) that had not advanced past the definition stage in a year or more. If anyone wants to try to salvage or merge them, the links are still in the navbox (just uncomment them out and remove the copy-to-wiktionary template from the article itself). peace.. -- User0529 ( talk) 07:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Could people here have a look at Aguda and confirm whether I've got the "Israeli national LGBT organisation" bit correct? Thanks. Also, any Hebrew speakers could check whether I've got the "union" or "organisation" bit right for the Hebrew definition. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see Opera queen. They have a point, though the Koestenbaum book theorises the construct. Zigzig20s ( talk) 11:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Please never say this. About anything.
Dybryd ( talk) 17:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
See this Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Removed stalkish attack post which relates to this WikiProject and a few of its members. — Becksguy ( talk) 20:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Why are gay rumours more critically censored on WP:BLP pages than rumours which allege straight relationships? Controversy as a factor, is one I can only interpret as a cover for a heteronormative slant amongst Wiki editors and consequently, Wiki policy. Should this project actively work to include sections citing more reliable sources for relationships such as Lindsay Lohan and Samantha Ronson, or work the other way and just as ruthlessly cull rumours of whichever ladyfriend Hayden Christensen is supposedly courting? I can't help but feel that the consensus interpretation of Wikipedia's stance on biographies equates mention of homosexuality with defamation of character, unless said party has already come out.~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Rumors on WP:BLP regarding personal relationship should not be allowed whatsoever regardless of sexual orientation. Honestly, who gives a damn what celebrity is dating who? This is an encyclopedia - not a tabloid you pick up at the grocery store. Most "Personal Life" sections of BLP articles are nothing but a collection of tabloid rumors, or last person he/she was photographed holding hands with. If rumors regarding a person's sexual orientation or love life gain enough coverage to make the headlines of CNN, then maybe we should consider adding it to their biography- otherwise stick to what the person is best known for: their career. If there is a bias against homosexual relations, we should work to make sure heterosexual relations are equally disregarded and forcible removed, not the other way around. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 22:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I POV tagged the page "California Proposition 8 (2008)" because of differences in opinion over a legal challenge detailing the technical difference between "amending" and "revising" the CA constitution. I'm hoping that members of the LGBT project will get involved and voice opinions on the issues. This is not a request for a specific view point, just a high level of involvement. Netbenefit ( talk) 21:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I noticed this article was changed to gay slang, but I moved it to LGBT slang. I know there was a project to change many articles into LGBT. I figured this one was too with {{ LGBT slang}} template headed as LGBT slang. I believe there are some lesbian, bisexual, transgender slang out there that isn't part of gay slang. Until this article is larger I don't see a reason to narrow it to just gay slang. -- Pinkkeith ( talk) 18:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see Template:Baldwin. Little Man Little Man: A Story of Childhood is a collaboration; it is a children's book and Cazac did the drawings while Baldwin did the writing...It is not a novel...I have reverted the template about two or three times. (The book is not necessarily LGBT, though Nicholas Boggs has sounded out some in-depth queer seeds. The author was a major gay author anyway.) Zigzig20s ( talk) 21:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Outdent. Perhaps an "other" section instead of collaboration? with "(children's book)" to explain it. Banjeboi 22:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
or not??— Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.239.200.200 ( talk • contribs)
On what basis? -- Allemandtando ( talk) 14:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I went to Wikiquette alerts to report that User:Skoojal had continued to use gendered pronouns to describe me, after I had already asked Skoojal to stop. User:Jaysweet responded to the Wikiquette alert in an inappropriate manner. In my request, all I requested was for Skoojal user to stop using gendered pronouns. Jaysweet's response was to misrepresent the issue, by claiming that I had demanded to be referred to with "ze". Nowhere did I do that. Jaysweet then closed the Wikiquette alert with the following phrase: "This is English Wikipedia, and there is no word "ze" in the English language". Jaysweet also made the uncivil comment: "Uh, so, apparently Whistling42 objects to the use of the English language...".
If anyone would like to weigh in on this, the three places that you might wish to read in order to catch up are the Wikiquette alert section, Skoojal's talk page, and Jaysweet's talk page. However, please do not continue the discussions there; any future discussion should take place on my Talk page. Your attention is appreciated; thank you. Whistling42 ( talk) 18:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I request that any further discussion on this matter should take place at my Talk page. I say this only because it is the one place I know where no one can easily come along and insist it be removed. Whistling42 ( talk) 04:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Charlie Crist is the current governor of Florida, and rumors about his sexuality have been circulating. He announced earlier this week that he is engaged (to a woman). The RfC is something we deal with every day: when to report on a BLP's sexual orientation. -- Moni3 ( talk) 12:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see and comment at Template talk:Sexual orientation#template POV problems. This topic deserves wider attention from project members. Aleta Sing 19:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Janet Jackson as gay icon just passed GA. I've also spent a great deal of time expanding the gay icon article, which I think can get to GA quicker if the entire project works on it. There are two heavy discussions on the article's talk page that everyone should comment on. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pride family flag This article was apparently started and/or majorly contributed by one or both of the persons in the couple which designed (and sell licenses to) the Pride family flag. Changed merge proposal to nomination for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pride family flag if you would like to weigh in. Thanks, User0529 ( talk) 04:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
i'm just wondering whether this is the best name someone could come up with for the article? ....particularly the 'dead or alive' part. -- emerson7 22:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I moved the articles back to the naming format "List of bisexual people" they were at after the 5 July article split. The "dead" article name was the second in a series of good-faith renames by another editor, but probably was not the best choice of words.
The article was first renamed (not by me) to List of bisexual-identified people (to specify only people who have identified as bisexual (which makes sense since most people are bisexual anyway, supposedly), and then someone renamed it to include deceased persons that did not identify as bisexual but were known to be bisexual. (Not saying I agree with the "dead" name, but I realize it was a good-faith edit). User0529 ( talk) 20:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I just created Jacopo Bonfadio because he was a red link at List of people executed for homosexuality. If anyone can expand on my initial creation, give it a rating, or help to create links to the article, I would very much appreciate it. Cheers! -- role player 23:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see the ANI discussion for more, or my talk page. I am too enervated to participate more this evening. Jeffpw ( talk) 20:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Article AfD at Deletion review. Banjeboi 15:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Intersex activist, Cheryl Chase, has written under several different names including Bo Laurent. She has somewhat recently stated she prefers to be called Bo Laurent. Should the article title and subsequent uses of her name refer to Bo Laurent (her preferred name choice) or Cheryl Chase (her more popular pseudonym)? Your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Here is the relevant talk section. Queerudite ( talk) 16:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Talk:Siegfried & Roy has the WikiProject LGBT studies template, but the text of that article has no info which would justify this. IMHO either such info should be added to the article (with good cites, please) or the template removed. Thanks. -- 201.17.36.246 ( talk) 16:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Is there an article that has a wider variation that is not exclusively for Lesbians, Gays, Bi(s), and Transgenders. I am looking for a word or article that is on the lines of "everything not heterosexual" and would include Asexuality, Autosexuality, Pansexuality, Paraphilia, Pomosexual, Zoophilia and, like i said, anything not "straight". I ask because i feel that people who aren't "straight" are usually grouped into that one social group and stereotype, one common stereotype (for men) that is prevalent is femininity ( Effeminacy) if they are not "straight". -- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 06:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
As I'm sure many of you are well aware, rumours have been circulating about Lindsay Lohan and Sam Ronson for some time. However, these rumours have now been substantiated by no less reputable papers than The Times, The LA Times, and The Guardian. I added this to the Lohan article today, but there is an editor who refuses to accept any evidence of a relationship until Lohan herself explicitly says something and just reverted me. I am aware my wording could do with a little editing but there seems little point in trying to deny the incredibly obvious, particularly when I have hardcore references from broadsheets to back me up. I don't want to get into an extended but solitary argument about this, particularly as Ward3001 is being weirdly aggressive (informing I will be blocked if I "choose to edit war" etc. After one post!), and I doubt we'd get anywhere. So I'd appreciate it if other people could input and help with sourcing/editing. The opportunity for claptrap from goosip sites to be tacked on is, I suspect, rather high. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
The source you've quoted above is actually a discussion of whether it's ethical to out Lindsay without her permission, not a disclaimer. The article thoughout makes it obviously that they are in a relationship, publicly, and what it discusses are the implications of that. The fact that neither's PR crews have officially acknowledged the relationship is used to consider whether the relationship may be discussed in the media or not - but the existence of the romantic relationship itself is not in doubt anywhere throughout the article. And I really don't see what's wrong with carrying that confidence into the Wikipedia article. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
The RfC has already been brought by Ward3001, though bizarrely he has focused it on my choice of words. Apparently my writing "involved", "partners" and "in a relationship" are an obvious attempt to weasel in my insidious claims that Samantha and Lindsay are in a romantic relationship, because none of those phrases actually means "in a romantic relationship", according to Ward. Is my command of Englsh slipping, or is this a very odd allegation? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I've got an RFC going on the sexual orientations template which is going over like a lead balloon. At the moment we've got POV neologisms galore in there. Have a look and add your input.
Dybryd ( talk) 20:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
So I'm looking at the NAMBLA page and on the talkpage is this project's header - and it states that:
Explanation for inclusion in WikiProject LGBT studies: The WikiProject banner on this article does not imply acceptance or endorsement of NAMBLA as an organization or the beliefs and practices of NAMBLA members by the LGBT WikiProject.
Only problem is - the first bit doesn't go with the second part - the first part promises an explanation, the second part is actually a disclaimer - those are not the same thing. -- Allemandtando ( talk) 19:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Doesn't the current disclaimer violate WP:NPOV? Stating the project does not condone or support the organization (in bold red print no less) gives the impression the project has taken a moral/political stance on the issue. Shouldn't the disclaimer simply read "This article has been tagged as an aspect of LGBT history." I think the article itself presents enough prof most LGBT organization did not support the organization. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 03:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
LGBT studies Project‑class | |||||||
|
Jeffpw ( talk) 13:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Squeakbox and other interested editors, editors have discussed inclusion of the LGBT tag before on this page; I would speculate that the reason there is even an "Explanation" line available as part of the WikiProject tag is due to this article (I couldn't find the discussion on it - tough to search the archives).
Prior and active discussions of the LGBT tag can be found at:
Related discussions are found in
The reason it clearly falls under Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) studies is due to the male/male sexual relationships inherent in NAMBLA. Zue Jay ( talk) 22:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I have restored the original tag. While imperfect, at least it stopped this silly fight from cropping up on a weekly basis. Jeffpw ( talk) 04:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Folks, do not revert war on the talk page. Jeffpw, you need to demonstrate far better that there's consensus for this rather polemical disclaimer (I looked at the link you provided, and a few people objected to it). I want to see that "it would be hypocritical" supported by many members —and nonmembers (they, too, can voice their opinion)— of the wikiproject, on the wikiproject's discussion, not here (I moved the section right after).
El_C
13:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't care if the tag is there or not. I very strongly object to text in the tag which expresses some sort of collective value judgment on "hypocrisy" supposedly attributed to the LGBT project as a body.
I was also a little embarrassed by the tone of some of the edit comments directed at Squeakbox along the lines of "back off, the LGBT project has spoken!" For one thing, the LGBT project has spoken very inconsistently. And more importantly, adding your name to the membership list of a Wikiproject doesn't give you any particular position in relation to the topic of that project -- other than being interested in it.
Dybryd ( talk) 17:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
OK, so - what do we need to do? Achieve some sort of consensus that the LGBT tag belongs on the NAMBLA article, then achieve so some sort of consensus about the wording if a tag should be placed there? Do we do the Support Oppose thing? -- Moni3 ( talk) 18:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's not the first time someone's complained of an LGBT tag on an article - either for feeling that it's not an LGBT issue (most often observed as "Mr. X isn't gay - the tag must go!!!"), or because LGBT editors find it distasteful to support inclusion of a particular article under the LGBT banner (without first realising that it's a wikiproject banner, not the LGBT banner itself).
I'd suggest a once and for all change to the default template... it doesn't need to be called an explanation or a disclaimer. It just needs to be a text at the bottom of the tag that says something along the lines of "Inclusion of the LGBT wikiproject tag does not imply LGBT support or objection to the subject of an article (per WP:NPOV). The tag is intended to designate that the subject of an article has a connection in some way, positive or negative, to LGBT issues"
...or something along those lines Crimsone ( talk) 19:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
FYI: For this neverending discussion, the following comment(s) were left on my user talkpage:
Just wanted to let you know I just undid the LGBT category on NAMBLA. Yes, I read the categories talk page as you directed me to do, I see a vote for including Nambla with the category of LGBT. However, WP:BLP supercedes consensus in this case. First, Nambla is a pedo group, not a gay, les, bi or tranny group. Second, it's pretty well known that Nambla is not affiliated to LGBT IRL by membership, association, etc...
Also, pedo does not equal gay, les, bi or tranny, as most pedo's are straight. LGBT is for groups like Act UP!, Radical Faries (yes, that's a real group), known artists, like Yves St. Laurent, Freddy Mercury, Seigfried and Roy (yea, I know they won't admitt it, but it's pretty **** obvious)..etc...
It's not for Nambla, Renee Guyuon society (sp?) ..etc..
Placing LGBT category on Nambla is an untrue statemnent, not referenced by anything, therefore it violates WP:V, as LGBT community as a whole denies any involvement, nor has as a member any such groups as NAMBLA, therefore placing NAMBLA in the same catageory with LGBT could be construed as a violation of WP:BLP (since we're talking about living people most of the time). Policy trumps consesus here. Please don't place that up again. Thanks (BTW: I'm not really as much of a male member as I might sound here! ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon ( talk) 07:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with the applicability of WP:BLP. I still support inclusion of this in LGBT scope. Zue Jay ( talk) 00:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
There appears to be a dispute of whether Charlie Crist should be tagged by the wikiproject. See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Charlie Crist. While not being a member of the wikiproject, I personally don't see any reason for the tag. There were some rumours of him being gay, but not with sufficient sourcing for the article. He's also evidentally opposed adoption by same-sex couples (the article says homosexuals, but isn't same sex couples the better wording?). Neither of these seem much of a reason for him to be of interest, but perhaps I'm wrong. Nil Einne ( talk) 15:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | → | Archive 20 |
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.
Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot ( Disable) 21:36, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
heads up for other LGBT topics editors... there is a new navbox live at Template:LGBT slang for English LGBT slang terms (with links at the bottom to Japanese and Singapore terms). If you would like to check it out and make any corrections or additions, it is at Template:LGBT slang. The other day I added copy-to-wiktionary tags to a few slang entries ( Acault, BGM (slang), Bean queen, Fag stag, Opera queen, Potato Queen) that had not advanced past the definition stage in a year or more. If anyone wants to try to salvage or merge them, the links are still in the navbox (just uncomment them out and remove the copy-to-wiktionary template from the article itself). peace.. -- User0529 ( talk) 07:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Could people here have a look at Aguda and confirm whether I've got the "Israeli national LGBT organisation" bit correct? Thanks. Also, any Hebrew speakers could check whether I've got the "union" or "organisation" bit right for the Hebrew definition. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see Opera queen. They have a point, though the Koestenbaum book theorises the construct. Zigzig20s ( talk) 11:12, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Please never say this. About anything.
Dybryd ( talk) 17:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
See this Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Removed stalkish attack post which relates to this WikiProject and a few of its members. — Becksguy ( talk) 20:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Why are gay rumours more critically censored on WP:BLP pages than rumours which allege straight relationships? Controversy as a factor, is one I can only interpret as a cover for a heteronormative slant amongst Wiki editors and consequently, Wiki policy. Should this project actively work to include sections citing more reliable sources for relationships such as Lindsay Lohan and Samantha Ronson, or work the other way and just as ruthlessly cull rumours of whichever ladyfriend Hayden Christensen is supposedly courting? I can't help but feel that the consensus interpretation of Wikipedia's stance on biographies equates mention of homosexuality with defamation of character, unless said party has already come out.~ Zythe Talk to me! 17:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Rumors on WP:BLP regarding personal relationship should not be allowed whatsoever regardless of sexual orientation. Honestly, who gives a damn what celebrity is dating who? This is an encyclopedia - not a tabloid you pick up at the grocery store. Most "Personal Life" sections of BLP articles are nothing but a collection of tabloid rumors, or last person he/she was photographed holding hands with. If rumors regarding a person's sexual orientation or love life gain enough coverage to make the headlines of CNN, then maybe we should consider adding it to their biography- otherwise stick to what the person is best known for: their career. If there is a bias against homosexual relations, we should work to make sure heterosexual relations are equally disregarded and forcible removed, not the other way around. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 22:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I POV tagged the page "California Proposition 8 (2008)" because of differences in opinion over a legal challenge detailing the technical difference between "amending" and "revising" the CA constitution. I'm hoping that members of the LGBT project will get involved and voice opinions on the issues. This is not a request for a specific view point, just a high level of involvement. Netbenefit ( talk) 21:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I noticed this article was changed to gay slang, but I moved it to LGBT slang. I know there was a project to change many articles into LGBT. I figured this one was too with {{ LGBT slang}} template headed as LGBT slang. I believe there are some lesbian, bisexual, transgender slang out there that isn't part of gay slang. Until this article is larger I don't see a reason to narrow it to just gay slang. -- Pinkkeith ( talk) 18:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see Template:Baldwin. Little Man Little Man: A Story of Childhood is a collaboration; it is a children's book and Cazac did the drawings while Baldwin did the writing...It is not a novel...I have reverted the template about two or three times. (The book is not necessarily LGBT, though Nicholas Boggs has sounded out some in-depth queer seeds. The author was a major gay author anyway.) Zigzig20s ( talk) 21:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Outdent. Perhaps an "other" section instead of collaboration? with "(children's book)" to explain it. Banjeboi 22:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
or not??— Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.239.200.200 ( talk • contribs)
On what basis? -- Allemandtando ( talk) 14:20, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I went to Wikiquette alerts to report that User:Skoojal had continued to use gendered pronouns to describe me, after I had already asked Skoojal to stop. User:Jaysweet responded to the Wikiquette alert in an inappropriate manner. In my request, all I requested was for Skoojal user to stop using gendered pronouns. Jaysweet's response was to misrepresent the issue, by claiming that I had demanded to be referred to with "ze". Nowhere did I do that. Jaysweet then closed the Wikiquette alert with the following phrase: "This is English Wikipedia, and there is no word "ze" in the English language". Jaysweet also made the uncivil comment: "Uh, so, apparently Whistling42 objects to the use of the English language...".
If anyone would like to weigh in on this, the three places that you might wish to read in order to catch up are the Wikiquette alert section, Skoojal's talk page, and Jaysweet's talk page. However, please do not continue the discussions there; any future discussion should take place on my Talk page. Your attention is appreciated; thank you. Whistling42 ( talk) 18:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I request that any further discussion on this matter should take place at my Talk page. I say this only because it is the one place I know where no one can easily come along and insist it be removed. Whistling42 ( talk) 04:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Charlie Crist is the current governor of Florida, and rumors about his sexuality have been circulating. He announced earlier this week that he is engaged (to a woman). The RfC is something we deal with every day: when to report on a BLP's sexual orientation. -- Moni3 ( talk) 12:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see and comment at Template talk:Sexual orientation#template POV problems. This topic deserves wider attention from project members. Aleta Sing 19:41, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Janet Jackson as gay icon just passed GA. I've also spent a great deal of time expanding the gay icon article, which I think can get to GA quicker if the entire project works on it. There are two heavy discussions on the article's talk page that everyone should comment on. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
See: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pride family flag This article was apparently started and/or majorly contributed by one or both of the persons in the couple which designed (and sell licenses to) the Pride family flag. Changed merge proposal to nomination for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pride family flag if you would like to weigh in. Thanks, User0529 ( talk) 04:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
i'm just wondering whether this is the best name someone could come up with for the article? ....particularly the 'dead or alive' part. -- emerson7 22:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I moved the articles back to the naming format "List of bisexual people" they were at after the 5 July article split. The "dead" article name was the second in a series of good-faith renames by another editor, but probably was not the best choice of words.
The article was first renamed (not by me) to List of bisexual-identified people (to specify only people who have identified as bisexual (which makes sense since most people are bisexual anyway, supposedly), and then someone renamed it to include deceased persons that did not identify as bisexual but were known to be bisexual. (Not saying I agree with the "dead" name, but I realize it was a good-faith edit). User0529 ( talk) 20:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I just created Jacopo Bonfadio because he was a red link at List of people executed for homosexuality. If anyone can expand on my initial creation, give it a rating, or help to create links to the article, I would very much appreciate it. Cheers! -- role player 23:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Please see the ANI discussion for more, or my talk page. I am too enervated to participate more this evening. Jeffpw ( talk) 20:30, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Article AfD at Deletion review. Banjeboi 15:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Intersex activist, Cheryl Chase, has written under several different names including Bo Laurent. She has somewhat recently stated she prefers to be called Bo Laurent. Should the article title and subsequent uses of her name refer to Bo Laurent (her preferred name choice) or Cheryl Chase (her more popular pseudonym)? Your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Here is the relevant talk section. Queerudite ( talk) 16:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Talk:Siegfried & Roy has the WikiProject LGBT studies template, but the text of that article has no info which would justify this. IMHO either such info should be added to the article (with good cites, please) or the template removed. Thanks. -- 201.17.36.246 ( talk) 16:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Is there an article that has a wider variation that is not exclusively for Lesbians, Gays, Bi(s), and Transgenders. I am looking for a word or article that is on the lines of "everything not heterosexual" and would include Asexuality, Autosexuality, Pansexuality, Paraphilia, Pomosexual, Zoophilia and, like i said, anything not "straight". I ask because i feel that people who aren't "straight" are usually grouped into that one social group and stereotype, one common stereotype (for men) that is prevalent is femininity ( Effeminacy) if they are not "straight". -- Cooljuno411 ( talk) 06:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
As I'm sure many of you are well aware, rumours have been circulating about Lindsay Lohan and Sam Ronson for some time. However, these rumours have now been substantiated by no less reputable papers than The Times, The LA Times, and The Guardian. I added this to the Lohan article today, but there is an editor who refuses to accept any evidence of a relationship until Lohan herself explicitly says something and just reverted me. I am aware my wording could do with a little editing but there seems little point in trying to deny the incredibly obvious, particularly when I have hardcore references from broadsheets to back me up. I don't want to get into an extended but solitary argument about this, particularly as Ward3001 is being weirdly aggressive (informing I will be blocked if I "choose to edit war" etc. After one post!), and I doubt we'd get anywhere. So I'd appreciate it if other people could input and help with sourcing/editing. The opportunity for claptrap from goosip sites to be tacked on is, I suspect, rather high. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
The source you've quoted above is actually a discussion of whether it's ethical to out Lindsay without her permission, not a disclaimer. The article thoughout makes it obviously that they are in a relationship, publicly, and what it discusses are the implications of that. The fact that neither's PR crews have officially acknowledged the relationship is used to consider whether the relationship may be discussed in the media or not - but the existence of the romantic relationship itself is not in doubt anywhere throughout the article. And I really don't see what's wrong with carrying that confidence into the Wikipedia article. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 23:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
The RfC has already been brought by Ward3001, though bizarrely he has focused it on my choice of words. Apparently my writing "involved", "partners" and "in a relationship" are an obvious attempt to weasel in my insidious claims that Samantha and Lindsay are in a romantic relationship, because none of those phrases actually means "in a romantic relationship", according to Ward. Is my command of Englsh slipping, or is this a very odd allegation? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 01:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I've got an RFC going on the sexual orientations template which is going over like a lead balloon. At the moment we've got POV neologisms galore in there. Have a look and add your input.
Dybryd ( talk) 20:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
So I'm looking at the NAMBLA page and on the talkpage is this project's header - and it states that:
Explanation for inclusion in WikiProject LGBT studies: The WikiProject banner on this article does not imply acceptance or endorsement of NAMBLA as an organization or the beliefs and practices of NAMBLA members by the LGBT WikiProject.
Only problem is - the first bit doesn't go with the second part - the first part promises an explanation, the second part is actually a disclaimer - those are not the same thing. -- Allemandtando ( talk) 19:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Doesn't the current disclaimer violate WP:NPOV? Stating the project does not condone or support the organization (in bold red print no less) gives the impression the project has taken a moral/political stance on the issue. Shouldn't the disclaimer simply read "This article has been tagged as an aspect of LGBT history." I think the article itself presents enough prof most LGBT organization did not support the organization. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 03:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
LGBT studies Project‑class | |||||||
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Jeffpw ( talk) 13:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Squeakbox and other interested editors, editors have discussed inclusion of the LGBT tag before on this page; I would speculate that the reason there is even an "Explanation" line available as part of the WikiProject tag is due to this article (I couldn't find the discussion on it - tough to search the archives).
Prior and active discussions of the LGBT tag can be found at:
Related discussions are found in
The reason it clearly falls under Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) studies is due to the male/male sexual relationships inherent in NAMBLA. Zue Jay ( talk) 22:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I have restored the original tag. While imperfect, at least it stopped this silly fight from cropping up on a weekly basis. Jeffpw ( talk) 04:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Folks, do not revert war on the talk page. Jeffpw, you need to demonstrate far better that there's consensus for this rather polemical disclaimer (I looked at the link you provided, and a few people objected to it). I want to see that "it would be hypocritical" supported by many members —and nonmembers (they, too, can voice their opinion)— of the wikiproject, on the wikiproject's discussion, not here (I moved the section right after).
El_C
13:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't care if the tag is there or not. I very strongly object to text in the tag which expresses some sort of collective value judgment on "hypocrisy" supposedly attributed to the LGBT project as a body.
I was also a little embarrassed by the tone of some of the edit comments directed at Squeakbox along the lines of "back off, the LGBT project has spoken!" For one thing, the LGBT project has spoken very inconsistently. And more importantly, adding your name to the membership list of a Wikiproject doesn't give you any particular position in relation to the topic of that project -- other than being interested in it.
Dybryd ( talk) 17:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
OK, so - what do we need to do? Achieve some sort of consensus that the LGBT tag belongs on the NAMBLA article, then achieve so some sort of consensus about the wording if a tag should be placed there? Do we do the Support Oppose thing? -- Moni3 ( talk) 18:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's not the first time someone's complained of an LGBT tag on an article - either for feeling that it's not an LGBT issue (most often observed as "Mr. X isn't gay - the tag must go!!!"), or because LGBT editors find it distasteful to support inclusion of a particular article under the LGBT banner (without first realising that it's a wikiproject banner, not the LGBT banner itself).
I'd suggest a once and for all change to the default template... it doesn't need to be called an explanation or a disclaimer. It just needs to be a text at the bottom of the tag that says something along the lines of "Inclusion of the LGBT wikiproject tag does not imply LGBT support or objection to the subject of an article (per WP:NPOV). The tag is intended to designate that the subject of an article has a connection in some way, positive or negative, to LGBT issues"
...or something along those lines Crimsone ( talk) 19:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
FYI: For this neverending discussion, the following comment(s) were left on my user talkpage:
Just wanted to let you know I just undid the LGBT category on NAMBLA. Yes, I read the categories talk page as you directed me to do, I see a vote for including Nambla with the category of LGBT. However, WP:BLP supercedes consensus in this case. First, Nambla is a pedo group, not a gay, les, bi or tranny group. Second, it's pretty well known that Nambla is not affiliated to LGBT IRL by membership, association, etc...
Also, pedo does not equal gay, les, bi or tranny, as most pedo's are straight. LGBT is for groups like Act UP!, Radical Faries (yes, that's a real group), known artists, like Yves St. Laurent, Freddy Mercury, Seigfried and Roy (yea, I know they won't admitt it, but it's pretty **** obvious)..etc...
It's not for Nambla, Renee Guyuon society (sp?) ..etc..
Placing LGBT category on Nambla is an untrue statemnent, not referenced by anything, therefore it violates WP:V, as LGBT community as a whole denies any involvement, nor has as a member any such groups as NAMBLA, therefore placing NAMBLA in the same catageory with LGBT could be construed as a violation of WP:BLP (since we're talking about living people most of the time). Policy trumps consesus here. Please don't place that up again. Thanks (BTW: I'm not really as much of a male member as I might sound here! ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoshVorlon ( talk) 07:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with the applicability of WP:BLP. I still support inclusion of this in LGBT scope. Zue Jay ( talk) 00:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
There appears to be a dispute of whether Charlie Crist should be tagged by the wikiproject. See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Charlie Crist. While not being a member of the wikiproject, I personally don't see any reason for the tag. There were some rumours of him being gay, but not with sufficient sourcing for the article. He's also evidentally opposed adoption by same-sex couples (the article says homosexuals, but isn't same sex couples the better wording?). Neither of these seem much of a reason for him to be of interest, but perhaps I'm wrong. Nil Einne ( talk) 15:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)