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Hi there, I was wondering if anyone else would like to help me get the Northern Dancer article in GA or even FA shape. Looking for suggestions on both content and style, plus places where we might want to dig a little deeper. I've got two excellent books to comb for any desired details, plus can go through the NYTimes archives to expand on key sections. Just looking for perspective. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 15:07, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
The Gulfstream Park Turf Handicap is now known as the Pegasus World Cup Turf. It can't really be found on google or other search engines unless it is officially moved over. I attempted to do so, but there were issues with it. Can anyone fix it?
Thanks KatoKungLee ( talk) 00:04, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
I come across a problem fairly regularly where non-Grade 1 wins are added into the "Major wins" sections for jump jockeys and trainers. The races usually added are the Grand National, Irish Grand National, Galway Plate and Galway Hurdle, all significant handicap races. Our standard for the Major Wins sections for National Hunt are pretty clear- wins in current Grade 1 races go in, everything else stays out (although there is a different issue where a race has been raised to G1 status and past wins at a lower status are also shown). The problem for jump racing for me is that something like the Grand National is undoubtedly a "major win" by the standards of prize money and prestige, but as a handicap race it's not a G1 race and never will be.
Would it make sense to have a section titled "Grade 1 wins" and another for "other major wins" and some criteria for those? There would be more issues raised there, you could add all sorts of things to other major wins and make it a very long section - example, I'd say that the Ladbrokes Trophy is one of the major races of the British jumps season, whereas the Bet365 Gold Cup has perhaps been one in the past but less prestigious now. Others might not agree with me!! Or do we stick with the cut and dried criteria of a top-level race being a major win (Grade 1 or Group 1 according to country and naming convention) and remove any other wins which get added? -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi! I'm reviewing Booker (horse), and thought I'd ask if there's any accepted notability standard for race horses. It seems to me this horse is non-notable per the GNG, but I welcome your opinions. Best, PK650 ( talk) 21:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Secret Firm &
Secret Hello
These one-line only articles need attention. They have been on Wikipedia since 2010.
My article
Equality Stakes has the {{
notability}}
tag that needs assessment. The article needs the tag removed or be deleted.
Stretchrunner (
talk) 20:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I have been using the break between flat seasons (which seems to get shorter every year) to do some updates on racehorse articles. I've found quite a few articles which are half-finished or stop abruptly half way through a horse's track career. This usually happens when a horse makes a big early splash but then grinds away for a couple more years without achieving anything spectacular. Today I found Idaho which I have been working on just now and Satono Diamond but I bet there will be a few others. Most of these are articles I started but forgot to update. Let me know if you find any others, I'd like to get this finished in the next few weeks. I'm sticking to European and Japanese flat racers up to the end of 2019 because that's what I can manage. Tigerboy1966 19:54, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
The National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame external web site has been taken down by its owners National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame. They are making renovations to it. It will be back in July 2020. They are not leaving the existing web site up in the meantime, just a renovation message. This will be extremely inconvenient to all of the hall of fame inductee articles. For the time being, you could use this archive page for links to the main racing hall of fame page: National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame external website.
The 2020 Hall of Fame induction ceremony will take place on Friday, Aug. 7 at 10:30 a.m. at Fasig-Tipton. I have located the following Internet Archive Wayback Machine sites that can be used instead (up to the 2018 inductees). Or, you can just wait for the Internet Archive Bot to do the replacements. Once the new site is up in July, then the citations can be changed to the live links. Here are the links to the archive. It really doesn't matter which ones you use from 2018 or 2019 (up to the captures which just ones that capture the announcement). None of them capture the ones with the 2019 inductees.
The article about Shirley Heights is undergoing a lot of editing at the moment - looks like it is going to need a lot of revision afterwards! Could someone have a look and see if they can repair some of the damage. I'll give it a go myself when I have time. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 16:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Until today, only me have edited about Impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic on sports#Horse racing information, including Grand National meeting. France Galop informed suspend all meeting until 13 April. Also, some jockeys cannot travel during country and jockey clubs ban. This maybe update quickly, please help me. -- Horsemeister ( talk) 07:09, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Sources
That's right. The $100,000 Maryland Hunt Cup is the last Saturday in April. And they are not going to cancel it. A chance to see Senior Senator try for his fourth win and break the record. Senior Senator eyes fourth Hunt cup win. Several horses have won it three times, including Hall of Fame horse Jay Trump. Hall of Fame horse Ben Nevis (known as Ben Nevis II in the US) won it twice. Both horses won the Grand National in England.
The Maryland Hunt Cup is the greatest timber race in all of the world! Saturday, April 25, 2020. The 124th Running. The Maryland Hunt Cup dawnleelynn (talk) 23:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Can some admin follow through with the requested move of the Australian Group 1 event, The BMW -> to the registered name H E Tancred Stakes due to drop of sponsership? I'm not able to do the move myself because there exists a redirect already for the H E Tancred Stakes. A requested move was made seven days ago but its gone into backlog. No one has made an objection with two confirmations as seen in Talk:The_BMW. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi, a new draft Draft:Wolver Hollow has been submitted to AfC with difficult to verify sources. It looks good to me, but it would be good if someone with knowledge of the subject area gave it a look. Cheers KylieTastic ( talk) 17:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi again, there are two other submitted drafts (both previously rejected) if anyone wants to comment on them, or try to improve them to acceptability if possible
Cheers KylieTastic ( talk) 13:00, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here. HickoryOughtShirt?4 ( talk) 00:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
A Category for Discussion on the Inter Dominion Hall of Fame for its two categories has been added. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 15#Category:Inter Dominion Hall of Fame. The authoring editor did not see fit to add a notice here, so I am. dawnleelynn (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
So I have made entries for the Epsom Derbies from 1980 to 2000 and would hope to bring that up to 2019 by the end of the month. Nevertheless this concept is not my property and as enjoyable as the research can be, I would not be upset to find other years (or better yet, other races) receiving the same work. The format and criteria for inclusion of offspring has thus far been largely improvised and discretionary. While not an advocate of prescriptivism, it might be worth considering some form of standardisation. The current format, which has arisen organically, broadly follows these principles;-
Insofar as matters of ambiguity are concerned, the greatest areas of contention might pertain to which races qualify as classic races. For example, neither the Irish St. Leger nor the Prix Royal-Oak are exclusively for horses of the "classic" generation while the Premio Regina Elena has deteriorated from a Group One into a Group Three contest. I am not certain how to resolve this and while I might be inclined to favour discretion (Order Of St George was probably classic standard, Royal Diamond probably wasn't), I would rather act on a more general consensus. I imagine that distinguishing between internationally recognised Group Ones and their local counterparts should be relatively straightforward. As for the extent and scope of these sections, I would be in favour of the current format which offers a more broad overview than anything exhaustive. Not least because of the energy required for production and maintenance but also that pertinent elaborations might be better placed within the article of the stallion himself. Kotkijet ( talk) 17:13, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks for your input, particularly where the American Classics are concerned. I fear I may have turned what initially seemed like a fun and straightforward endeavour into a rather murky and chaotic affair. Notwithstanding, this is a voluntary labour of love so it is with calmness and joy that I have settled on this criteria for the European races at least. The Italian ones look rather ridiculous but given that breeding is the driving force behind these updates, I felt that bloodstock sales catalogues were probably the most authoritative guide for these purposes;-
Classic Races (all to count unless stated otherwise)
1000 Guineas Stakes, 2000 Guineas Stakes, Epsom Oaks, Epsom Derby, St Leger Stakes
Irish 1,000 Guineas, Irish 2,000 Guineas, Irish Derby, Irish Oaks, Irish St. Leger (3yo)
Poule d'Essai des Pouliches, Poule d'Essai des Poulains, Prix du Jockey Club, Prix de Diane, Prix Royal-Oak (3yo)
Deutsches Derby, Preis der Diana (since 2001)
Premio Regina Elena (1984-1985), Premio Parioli (1981, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1990, 1995), Derby Italiano (up to 2008), Oaks d'Italia (1976-2006)
Kentucky Derby,
Preakness Stakes,
Belmont Stakes,
Kentucky Oaks,
Coaching Club American Oaks
While several Canadian Grade Ones are internationally recognised, unfortunately none of the triple crown races counted amongst them.
Randwick Guineas, Rosehill Guineas, Australian Derby
Oka Sho,
Satsuki Shō,
Yushun Himba,
Tokyo Yūshun,
Kikuka-shō (all since 2001)
Group Ones
Internationally recognised, non-handicap, Grade Ones can be used from all aforementioned nations as well as Canada. South American and South African Grade/Group Ones can be used as notes of interest but not as qualifiers.
Kotkijet (
talk) 20:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello. There's currently a redirect discussion I started at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 3#Stayer which relates to the horse racing article currently located at Stayer (horse). It has been noted that Stayer (horse) is quite short, so I wonder if someone more knowledgeable could expand that article? (or perhaps you agree with the suggestion in the move discussion that it should be merged into a glossary article? Anyway, any input would be appreciated) Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 04:03, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
To this Project group. I have created a new article - List of American and Canadian Graded races which is an equivalent to the lists that exist for the British, Australia and South American Group races. This list is for the 2019 season as per the references used. There are external articles that exists for the current season (2020) but I left updating this new article after the initial article was created and for anyone who is interested. Also since the season is affected by Covid-19 the list may be difficult to track. A partial list of Grade 1 currently exists in the Graded stakes race article. Now there is a bit of a mismatch since this article is complete and maybe the section in the Graded article point with a wikilink to this new list. All this is debatable and I'll let the gallery have their say.
To create this list I first made sure that every event in that list had an article. Hence, there were about ~27 new articles created for missing Grade 2 and 3 events around the country. A fair amount of effort went into creating these articles and all of them have enough references that should keep them from being tagged as unverifiable. In fact I tried to have a reference for each winner that was included in the winners section. This is not the case in many of the existing articles. Hope the list helps as a reference because I use the other racing list and they are very helpful. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:05, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
There has been quite a bit of dispute at Talk:Pat Day alleging biased and unsupported content at Pat Day. I know nothing about horse racing, but if someone here is interested, it appears to need some sorting out. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
WP:DATELIST = Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists
There are at least four Thoroughbred horse races where an embedded table setup has been reversed by a Wikipedia editor. The edit summary reasoning stated: →Winners: reverse order so chrono, remove {{cleanup section|date=December 2019|reason=dates in reverse chronological order, contrary to WP:DATELIST.}}
The WP:DATELIST = Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists is not a policy, it is a guideline that allows exceptions and this is an exception that is important for Wikipedia to act in concert with the U.S. industry. To do that, we have hundreds of existing U. S. horse race articles with an embedded table beginning with the year for the latest race. Racetracks throughout the U.S. that provide a list of annual race winners online start with the most recent year first as per the sample list below. Plus, the very important Equibase Co LLC database starts with the most recent year [2] as does Pedigree Query, a massive database edited by volunteers which automatically places any individual race result by most recent year when created. [3]
Updating horse race article tables:
For Wikipedia editors, or viewers, having the first line of the race table start with the most recent year means the viewer instantly knows if it's up to date. If it is the last year first, a great many will not take the time to check to see if it's up to date or not, even if they understand the table is sortable.
In Wikipedia's horse race articles there is often a historical section. These always begin with the first notable event relevant to the race like the Melbourne Cup#Timeline of notable events. In cases where sub-headers are used, each begins with the first notable information relevant to the race such as in the Golden Rod Stakes (Sheepshead Bay).
list of examples
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NYRA - the 3 tracks all owned by the State of New York:
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Even when a race such as the Breeders' Cup series is not in table form but instead each year is an individual page, the dropdown starts at the most recent year. [19] In pre-digital times when the Daily Racing Form (DRF) and other U.S. horse racing publications were printed on paper, a table of race results did begin with the earliest year. However, for readers of printed matter it was only a glance to find the latest or any other year's result on such a list and most of those lists were fairly short. And, in those days typesetting costs meant the order didn't change. [20]
All Wikipedia horse race articles get their highest number of views on race day. Today users want quick or "instant gratification" when accessing information online. The advent of the digital era saw racetrack operators learn very quickly that people searching their websites for information were there in volume to find that day's race results and increasingly so wanted the latest info to appear first. This is demonstrated through the link above to a Santa Anita Park page which has one page that provides links to annual media guides. The Stronach Group does the same thing for their Pimlico Race Course.
Every day that there is a horse race going on in the United States there is an online story with race details. Viewers coming to Wikipedia have the unique option of usually being able to click on the name of a horse, jockey, trainer or owner to obtain biographical info. Instantly seeing that latest result on the table's first line when they open the article is essential. Hence, there will be a considerable spike in page views on race day and often the day after. This viewing habit can be seen in the following Wikipedia examples:
Some selected examples and commentary
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USA: 2019 Kentucky Derby winning jockey Flavien Prat [22] 2019 Kentucky Derby winning trainer Bill Mott [23]] The number of page views increases dramatically on race day even for a Grade 3 race such as the Withers Stakes run on Feb. 2, 2019. Note that the Wiki page did not include the 2019 results and wasn't updated until September 24. [24] And, even an ungraded stakes such as the Glens Falls Stakes with no table still gets a substantial increase in views on race day. [25]
England:
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Similar to the recording of a horse race, and for the same reasoning, the Wikipedia Eclipse Award, Cartier Racing Award and earlier National Champion awards all have a table(s) that begins with the most recent year. Externally, the U.S. awards list can be seen in this DRF website [32] and this Blood-Horse magazine online Champions chart. The Bloodhorse.com Champion's history charts.
A winners' table starting with the latest year's result is not exclusive to Thoroughbred racing.
From the following two lists of sports clubs and the media it appears most every type of sports and media organizations could soon be publishing their online results history beginning with the most recent year.
Lots of examples
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The official
NBA website records begin with the most recent year:
[33] The official National Hockey League website records begin with the most recent year: [34] The official NFL Pro Football Hall of Fame website records for Champions begins with the most recent year: [35] The official Australian Open tennis website records begin with the most recent year: [36] The official Stade Roland Garros French Open tennis website records begin with the most recent year: [37] The official The Championships, Wimbledon tennis website records opens with the most recent: [38] The official USTA Men's Singles Champions 1881 - 2019 begins with the most recent year: [39] The official World Lacrosse - international federation for men’s and women’s lacrosse: [40] The official Men's Softball World Championship winners begins with the most recent year: [41]
MEDIA: NCAA Division I Men's Lacrosse Championship (Turner Broadcasting et al) winners begins with the most recent year: [43] Sporting News - Indianapolis 500 winners begin with the most recent year: [44] USA Today - Year-by-year Indianapolis 500 winners since 1911 begins with the most recent year: [45]
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Stretchrunner ( talk) 21:31, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
So, am I accurately stating the consensus of the project that we are approaching these racing date lists in a way analogous to spelling in WP:ENGVAR, in that we follow the style used by the nation (or whatever relevant entity) in question? In other words, lists of North American and Australian races may be recent first, while we should keep the lists of European and Japanese (and presumably the rest of Asia) races oldest first? That said, I believe the individual horse articles have charts that are all chronological, first race to last. Montanabw (talk) 17:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Somebody created this their first and only article before being blocked Category:Alydar offspring with its only entry Alysheba. Should it be deleted? Stretchrunner ( talk) 15:56, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Because it is very important in a horse's bio, I'd like to see a new Category for T'bred Horses that reflects a properly referenced fact in the bio that during it's racing career the horse established a New Track Record(s). Would like input as well as suggestions for a Category name to be used. Stretchrunner ( talk) 13:59, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I added a section on the article purse distribution about bonuses and added money, hoping to illustrate the difference between the stated purse and the total amounts paid out. Can someone give it a lookover to see if it makes sense? Also, I'd appreciate some input on whether this is relevant in Europe. I don't see an explanation on racingpost about how the purse is distributed equivalent to the one that goes on the top of each chart on Equibase. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 01:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
One comment. When we are talking races that get an individual article for each year, like the 2019 Kentucky Derby, to include purse distribution makes sense. However, I hope we aren't talking about articles about races where we just update a list of winners or win-place-show, such as the San Carlos Stakes because this will create a perpetual nightmare of constantly updating every article every year. To say the total purse is X, is fine, but if we get into the weeds, we risk turning these articles into Equibase, which is kind of beyond the scope. Maybe just a citation in the list to the charts is all that's needed. Montanabw (talk) 21:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
This apparently solitary category is inconsistent with everything editors have done in horse racing articles at Wikipedia. It is unwarranted and I think should be deleted. Please comment.
Stretchrunner (
talk) 14:25, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Category:Racehorses trained by Fred Rimell
I think it would be great if every Project member would pitch in to ensure that all horses in the following articles each have a Pedigree Chart: Stretchrunner ( talk) 15:25, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi all. My main focus is on Australian Racing. Not sure if any one has noticed but in the past all references to previous major winners in Australia was done through the website ‘breednet.com.au’. Well, they have since removed all these results from their webpage, click on any link to any major winner In Australia now and what appears is nothing or a page saying “this has been moved”. It looks bad. I've been thinking due to this it would be an ideal time to update Australian results of major races more in line with European and US racing Results which includes the jockey as well as trainer with a reference also. Does anyone object to Australian racing changing to this style also... I know it would be a big tast to change over to this style but I am willing to get stuck into it, however wanted to hear other users opinions and not tread on any toes. Look forward to your feedback. Sunline02 ( talk) 07:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks Brudder. I will leave it be. It seems some of the breednet.com references are there, some are not. Sunline02 ( talk) 12:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I just noticed that someone added Sire line trees to a bunch of articles, mostly last November. I find them excessively long, tracing various horses (not only Thoroughbreds but some others as well) to the dawn of time. They are not sourced fully (and thus of dubious accuracy) and, frankly, we aren't pedigreequery.com. One example is here. I reverted three or four, but then figured out the editor who had put them all in, realized it's been someone who has been around for a while, and so I figured I'd better take it here before I toss the rest of them. Thoughts? Montanabw (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Renaming discussion that may be of interest to project members here Montanabw (talk) 06:32, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Dear horse-racing experts: This draft has been waiting a long time at WP:AFC for a review. Can someone take a look and see if this is a notable horse? Thanks.— Anne Delong ( talk) 22:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
It appears that the horse profiles that used to be at
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=######
have been moved to
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/######/
. Mostly the old address forwards to the new one, but not always - sometimes clicking on the old URL just leads to a blank page. But even in those cases, inserting the horse id into the new address format returns the right page, at least in the few random examples I've tried. It rather looks like there needs to be a mass conversion of the citation URLs to the new format; and the associated publisher=Bloodstock.racingpost.com
parameter also should be updated to something like website=Racing Post profile
.
Colonies Chris (
talk) 13:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
This seems to be both more complicated and simpler than I originally thought. Simpler in that it looks like the distinction between sires and dams in the URLs is gone - so for example, what used to be at
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/dam/dam_home.sd?horse_id=439081#damTabs=dam_progeny_sales
is now found at
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/thimblerigger/progeny-sales
(albeit that tab is paywalled), and you can get to the correct page without having to insert the horse name into the url (the website's software does that automatically). But you can't get to a specific tab without supplying the name (using the example above,
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/
will get you to the horse's page, but going straight to a different tab without the name (
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/progeny-sales
) does not work. Seemingly the horse name has to be converted to lowercase and any spaces replaced by hyphens (e.g.
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/104011/danehill-dancer/fee-history
. And special characters such as ' and . have to be removed e.g.
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/757547/roderic-oconnor
and
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/301599/mr-prospector
Colonies Chris (
talk) 10:13, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
bloodstock.racing.com
URLs, and trying out a few regexes; based on what I've discovered, I'd like to propose a way forward. There are already many templates whose job is to build a URL for a reference database, such as {{
ProQuest}} or {{
PMID}}. They are invoked by replacing the url=
parameter of {{
cite web}} by id={{ProQuest|123456}}
, for example. They encapsulate the URL-building in one place; this means that any future reorganisation of the Racing Post database would only require a change to the template rather than to hundreds of articles. Since it will be be necessary to scan and modify all the articles now, it would be good to take this opportunity to futureproof them.{{Racing Post horse|######}}
would need one to three parameters. At a minimum, and in most cases, just horse-id
, extracted from the current URL. For those URLs that specify a tab, such as the Thimblerigger example above, the horse name and the tab identifier would also be needed. I can build the template; it would be pretty straightforward. Converting all the current URLs that just have the horse-id from url=
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=######
or
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/dam/dam_home.sd?horse_id=######
to {{Racing Post horse|######}}
could be easily done by a bot, I think, or I can share my regexes and the workload can be spread across any editors who'd like to take it on via AWB (there are some complications at the end of some of the existing URLs that need to be handled, but regexes can easily deal with that). The more complex cases - the ones that specify a tab and therefore also need a horse name - would have to be handled manually, but I think the numbers are quite small, so that's manageable. The template would handle the conversion of the horse name as described above (lowercasing, etc.), so it would just need to be passed the horse name in its everyday format. How does this sound?
Colonies Chris (
talk) 19:34, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
access-date
parameter, which is not accepted for this sort of database reference, and the work=Racing Post
parameter is no longer needed as the generated reference includes that link. Also I've removed the publisher=Bloodstock.racingpost.com
parameter, which is no longer correct. All these changes can easily be performed with regexes in AWB, or by a bot. Any observations?
Colonies Chris (
talk) 19:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=9314281®istry=T&horse_name=American%20Pharoah&dam_name=Littleprincessemma&foaling_year=2012&nicking_stats_indicator=Y
- but experiment shows that just the horse id -
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=9314281
leads to the same webpage).
Colonies Chris (
talk) 10:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
|horse-id=
required parameter e.g. {{cite Racing Post horse profile|horse=id=300543|title=Port Etienne stud record|date=15 February 2012}}
. As before, an example of this method can be seen in
Barton (horse). A similar approach could be taken for Equiline and Equibase citations. They've also suggested that a request at
WP:URLREQ would be the best way to actually get the change made, so if there are no objections, I'll make a suitable request there.
Colonies Chris (
talk) 18:43, 20 September 2020 (UTC)A summary of what's been done. Thanks largely to the bot operated by User:GreenC, all the old-format Racing Post citation links have either been converted to the new format, or those that had no conversion available have had an archive link added to them; some links that had been marked dead and archived were recovered using the new URL format; a small number have been flagged as dead links. Detailed notes are at Wikipedia:Link_rot/URL_change_requests#Racing_Post_(cont..). Colonies Chris ( talk) 11:58, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
On a related question - what are the rules for naming horses? There's nothing in Wikipedia that I can find; there are many online articles on the subject, but they're mostly pretty jokey, not definitive statements. What characters are allowed? Some sources say only letters, numbers, spaces and apostrophes, but it's not hard to find names that use hyphens or full stops (see above). Does it vary by country? There are a few French horse names that use an accent (e.g. Épinard, Brantôme), but most don't, even when one would normally be present (e.g. Champs Elysees, Pas de Reponse). Colonies Chris ( talk) 13:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Every breed registry gets to make its own rules. Some breeds require all names to be unique, but don’t ban commercial identification (other than certain blatent trademark violations) so many people add random letters to the beginning of all their horse names to “brand” their farm (for example, all the horses bred by Bazy Tankersley have “AM” as a prefix, for Al-Marah, the ranch she owned) And I really have to share what happens when you allow numbers in horse names. Central European horse breeds, especially Lipizzans and breeds from Hungary, are rife with this stuff. And I think most registries banned playing around with capitalization on papers at the dawn of the computer age, they just put everything in all caps and a letter is a letter. Montanabw (talk) 06:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
We currently have this:
Category:American horse racing announcers.
Chic Anderson,
Larry Collmus,
Trevor Denman,
Tom Durkin etc. are race announcers but the list has many who are strictly limited to commenting (
Sports commentator), i.e
Jerry Bailey,
Donna Barton Brothers. A few like
Mike Battaglia have been both.
I changed it to:
Category:American horse racing commentators as a sub category of the usual U.S. horse racing etc. plus this
Category:Sports commentators
Stretchrunner (
talk) 15:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
I reverted this unsourced edit which stated there was a former "Derby racetrack" at this location north of Toronto, Canada. I've been unable to locate any information about the track. If anyone has any info it would be great to add it to an article. Thanks. Magnolia677 ( talk) 16:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Eyes on this article folks. Our gal is attracting the wrong kind of attention. Tigerboy1966 11:23, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
I worked on Violet Stakes and when done this [2] appeared immediatey under the Reference section title. Can't figure it out. Looks like a link to a website but when I clicked on it nothing happens. Thanks. Stretchrunner ( talk) 16:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. Just a heads up that we've got a new user User:Jsargent2504 who is switching text to table, especially for breeding records. Trying to treat all sires like we do Galileo is just not going to work, and in the process he/she is deleting information and context. I've been reverting. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 21:46, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Can regulars start going through and adding wikilinks, correcting my mistakes and additional refs in the new 2021 Road to the Kentucky Derby? Its about this time we start getting interested with 6 months to go. Cheers! Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some minor updates on this page and came across from the main Prep races that the Jeff Ruby Stakes (Spiral Stakes) has had the qualification points raised to Championship series - Second Leg on par with main Derbies. I'm looking for any other reference before modifying this in the article, but this doesn't surprise me that Churchill Downs Inc. made a nice deal with Turfway Park due to the change of dates last year with Covid-19 problems. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we really want this category?
Category:Filmed deaths of animals
Stretchrunner (
talk) 22:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 20:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
I stumbled across a conversation between @ Montanabw: and @ Stretchrunner: that I intruded upon believing that the discussion should included to all who participate on this Project. Stretchrunner has the belief that when he creates, updates, or just edit a horse race table, if possible I do my best to find and replace Owner: Mrs. John Doe with showing only HER name. It's very hard to find a female first name but if one gets lucky and does, it can take many hours. I disagree with this approach given that changing the name from what was registered when the horse won the event. If the reference (especially in the period when women were not allowed to be owners) given indicates Mrs. Joe Brown or some pseudonym like when Merman who won the 1900 Ascot Gold Cup the name should stay. If the horse is registered to be owned for example by Mrs. John Magnier then that is what should be in the table. The link can go to who the person is but the registered name is given per the reference ( WP:V). Opening this up for discussion. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:21, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I have updated this article but I do not have admin privileges to move Royal Heroine Mile Stakes to Royal Heroine Stakes due to an existing REDIRECT. The event has been run as the Royal Heroine Stakes since 2014. An uncontested technical move has been requested. Can someone with admin privileges perform this move? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia( talk) 00:58, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 09:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey all, I'm new to the site but have created a few pages for Grand National Winners who haven't got one yet and am hoping to make one for them all. I've also started going through the winners and races and standardising them (especially infoboxes, flag icons, layout) as well as adding a Grand National Record table and Pedigree for each winning horse.
The pages I've made:
Looking for feedback, thanks!
Lankyant (
talk) 18:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Is it at all possible to add a 'latest race' link at the bottom of the infobox on the
Grand National main page? Example being
London Marathon. Think it would be handy but can't work out how to do it. Should also be added to
Kentucky Derby.
Lankyant ( talk) 02:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a go to tool to design racing silks? Would like to get to work on adding some to add to the Grand National races if it's not too difficult.
Lankyant ( talk) 00:15, 14April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks I will do, and when I say standardise I mean more just making sure odds and flagicons are listed the same style in every race as well as adding conditions and starting prices that were missing to the infoboxes. So no major things or reworks :)
User: Lankyant 02:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Let me know which silks (which years?) you need and I will happily generate if they don't exist already JockeyColours ( talk) 07:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
And I also agree with the record tables for 1 race horses but I saw it more as a quick reference point for people to look at instead of digging into the meat of an article it gives a quick idea of the result but if you dislike I'm happy to delete.
But yes I definitely think that we should aim for a page for each winner.
And yes, I had way too much free time lately so seemed like this would be a useful way to spend it!
[User:Lankyant] 14:04, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey JockeyColours, sorry I didn't see your reply! That would be great and much appreciated. I will try and get something together obviously the full list for races would be grand especially for 2021 but that's a lot of work but in terms of winners we have nothing it seems pre 2000 so I know that takes some research which I will try and put together. But for now we need Bobbyjo 1999 -red top with gold sleeves. gold Lorraine cross on centre with green cap with gold stripes.
But instead of full race cards I'd like to prioritise the top 4 finishers from 2004 to 2013 and 2015, 2016, 2017 to make a place table with as we only have the winning colours currently.
Thank you!
User:Lankyant 02:33 15 April 2021
I noticed on the Bob Baffert article that there is no mention of any of the numerous doping issues over the past few years. I think they should be mentioned. Best, Thriley ( talk) 16:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I've experimented with adding a couple of new columns to the winners lists, one to show the race status for each year, and the other to link the Racing Post reference specifically to the year. I've used one of this week's races as a trial, the Westow Stakes. If you're interested, could you have a look please and give your thoughts there as to whether it's a good idea, looks useful etc. Thanks, -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Dear WikiProject Horse racing. I was thinking about translating the (newly created) Italian wikipage it:Premio Presidente della Repubblica which is about a prestigious prize of the prestigious scientific institution Lincei National Academy (given every year by the Italian president). I was surprised to see that the English page is about horse racing. I'm not the right person that can evaluate the notability of that (horse racing) page. Can you please verify that the existing page meets the notability criteria? Despite the name, it doesn't seem connected to the Italian institutions. -- SimoneD89 ( talk) 18:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Your edit : Broadway Stakes (NYB) moved to draftspace
All Thoroughbred racing in the United States is governed by state gambling laws. Hence, there is only one legal source for referencing those races, that being the racetrack proprietor who holds the gambling license. In the case of the Broadway Stakes, it is owned by the New York Racing Association (NYRA) and all information contained in the Wikipedia article on the Broadway Stakes is derived from the referenced NYRA. Note that in this case the NYRA is a government entity owned by the State of New York. In articles where there might be information not covered by the track owner, i.e. comments about the events during the race that the jockey moved too early etc., or a comment that the horse had not run for two months due to an injury, or the winner lost for the first time in four starts, and more. Those comments come from the media and are referenced at Wikipedia to reputable sources such as the Daily Racing Form, Thoroughbred Daily News, the New York Times, Blood-horse magazine and the like. Further, Equibase Co., LLC is an official source having been authorized as such by racetrack owners plus by licensed breeders for pedigree records. However, Equibase Co., LLC only document races back to 1976 and in a great many cases the races created at Wikipedia go way past that to times as early as 1860. Note too, there are defunct/discontinued races from long ago, many of which are because the racetrack closed or were forced to close through state anti-gambling legislation such as the Hart-Agnew Law. For these historically important Wikipedia articles, we use very reliable sources as references. I hope this helps but I think it would be a lot easier for you and others who work hard to ensure quality for Wikipedia but who don't have in-depth expertise on this particular subject to leave a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing where someone knowledgeable will certainly answer it. Kindly reverse your edit. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk) 20:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Update: - Article was deleted. This brings up the question why there is a category of Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States which now has one less entry at 30, and whether the events in this category would qualify under WP:NHORSERACING. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:31, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Can I ask for help reviewing any and all pages related to the 2021 Kentucky Derby. Although the second sample for Medina Spirit was also positive, he has NOT yet been disqualified. That decision will be made by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, which will deliberate at its own sweet pace. (For reference, it took four years before Dancer's Image DQ was officially official.) Folks want to jump ahead of the process though and change the winner. I'm updating as I come across stuff. Oh, and the ban of Baffert at Churchill Downs is official, for now, but we don't yet know to what extent it will be followed at other tracks. Bloodhorse has lots of stuff. I'm using the WaPo article for now, and I expect NYT will have some great stuff since they broke the story on Justify's positive. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 00:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. I don’t normally create articles in this area, but in researching a different topic, I came across John Rickman the longtime broadcaster journalist of British horse races and created a quick stub. The article is currently an orphan. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 18:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
An Afd has been entered for the article about Hot Rod Charlie. Hot Rod Charlie has only won a Grade II event. IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 23:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was put up for deletion by WikiProject Horse racing member
User:Brudder Andrusha who stated the following as their reasoning:
While I may strongly disagree with User:Brudder Andrusa that Thoroughbred race articles at Wikipedia should be at a minimum be graded which eliminates all Listed, Restricted, Ungraded, and Black type stakes races, I respect the opinions of the WikiProject Horse racing members who did not object to the deletion of the
Broadway Stakes (NYB) as the members were adhering to the WikiProject guidelines.
Over and above the Non-graded stakes races, there are no Graded stakes races in North America prior to 1973 and prior to 1971 for British & Irish races so this problem will have to be dealt with. Deleting the Listed, Restricted, Ungraded/Black type races represents a massive job. And, these required race deletions will have a profound effect on a multitude of other Wikipedia articles including those for jockeys, trainers, and owners. I do not know how this very difficult deleting situation should be organized in the context of "the event should be at a minimum be graded" policy.
Regarding articles for horses User:Brudder Andrusha has also stated: "IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG.
I, and obviously the industry itself, believe State/Province-bred races are a very important and vital part of Thoroughbred racing as are a number of ungraded/Black type stakes. My view is shared by many other editors at Wikipedia as evidenced by the volume of those types of articles they have created or contributed to which includes Brudder Andrusha' substantial edits and races. (e.g. Charles Town Oaks, Harlan's Holiday Stakes, Parx Dash Stakes and others). Although WikiProject's deletion policy will have enormous consequences for Wikipedia we nevertheless have to accept that the Broadway Stakes (NYB) article had to be deleted as User:Brudder Andrusha's position is that the article's deletion is enunciated in the WikiProject's established guideline and was done through the due process Wikipedia stipulates for article deletions.
There are many more such races in Wikipedia for Europe that don't meet the WikiProject guidelines and we will need a number of volunteers to help prepare them for the deletion process. There are Wikipedia articles List of British flat horse races#Other races and List of Irish flat horse races#Other races as follows, all of which will have be deleted in order to meet the WikiProject's guideline.
Similarly, there are Australian listed races like the G A Towton Cup that will have to be deleted. I could not find a list.
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Ireland:
Other articles requiring deletionAlbeit reluctantly, I will follow the WikiProject guidelines and Wikipedia policy and help as much as possible to expedite the posting of the following additional races as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States The New York-Bred 2021 Stakes Schedule including
New York Stallion Series events
[54] has 40 races with the following values that in fact equal or far exceed the
Category:Grade 3 stakes races in the United States:
Some of those New York-Bred races already in Wikipedia are:
Other states:
All are Restricted races to horses bred either in the State of Florida or the State of California: Canada
Category:Restricted stakes races in Canada
Canadian Triple Crown races:
Ontario Sire Stakes (not listed below) Achievement Stakes Algoma Stakes Bison City Stakes Clarendon Stakes Coronation Futurity Stakes Cup and Saucer Stakes Fanfreluche Stakes Fury Stakes Jammed Lovely Stakes Ontario Damsel Stakes Ontario Lassie Stakes Plate Trial Stakes Princess Elizabeth Stakes (Canada) Queenston Stakes Shady Well Stakes Simcoe Stakes Vandal Stakes Wonder Where Stakes Woodbine Oaks
In addition to the above Canadian Restricted races there are forty Ungraded stakes races in Canada that will also have to be deleted. They are:
Alywow Stakes
Ballade Stakes Belle Mahone Stakes Bold Ruckus Stakes Bull Page Stakes Bunty Lawless Stakes Charlie Barley Stakes Chief Bearhart Stakes Classy 'N Smart Stakes Colin Stakes Deputy Minister Stakes Display Stakes Duchess Stakes Frost King Stakes Glorious Song Stakes Hill 'n' Dale Stakes Kingarvie Stakes La Prevoyante Stakes Lady Angela Stakes La Lorgnette Stakes Manitoba Derby Maple Leaf Stakes My Dear Stakes Nandi Stakes New Providence Stakes Ontario Debutante Stakes Ontario Fashion Stakes Overskate Stakes Shepperton Stakes Silver Deputy Stakes Sir Barton Stakes South Ocean Stakes Star Shoot Stakes Steady Growth Stakes Toronto Cup Stakes Vice Regent Stakes Victoria Park Stakes Victoria Stakes Victoriana Stakes Woodstock Stakes |
We currently have 66 WikiProject Horse racing members so we need to pitch in and get this cleanup done ASAP. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk)
A race or a race meet that may be questionable by the general WP:GNG criteria may be notable or not by assessing the following additional factors:
These criteria do not mandate deletion, but may indicate that a competition is not notable
I hope this clarifies things, and for godsake, let's all settle down here! Montanabw (talk) 15:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Would some members from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage? I'm not sure all of the extra detail about the horse is really necessary because there's already a stand-alone article about the horse at Dark Mirage. I've started a talk page discussion about this at Talk:Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage for reference and would appreciate any input. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. In expanding Deaths in 1995, I discovered an obituary on horse racing journalist Richard Baerlein, who we currently have no article on. I thought someone from this project might be interested in creating one, so I dug up another source as well. Here they are:
If you have access to newspapers.com, there is also an obituary in The Guardian: here. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 22:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi y'all. If anyone knows of any sources for Mexican horse racing, I need them for details on Letruska's first six starts. Thanks! Jlvsclrk ( talk) 19:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
My draft for Barbara Jo Rubin was recently put into mainspace. According to sources, Rubin is the first woman to win a professional horse race. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 18:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if the Subsequent Group 1 wins section of 2013 Epsom Derby should include Percussionist's win in the Grand National Hurdle Stakes. Tigerboy1966 07:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Discussion in progress of peripheral interest to members of this project: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Celebration of Horses: The American Saddlebred. Montanabw (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Calling @ Tigerboy1966:, @ Bcp67:, @ Jlvsclrk:, @ Sunline02:. Please take a look at the article I've created for dual hemisphere GI winner State Of Rest. I usually don't go down this path of creating an article for a horse and I known you folks are more experienced in this area. I have missing links and a background update into the breeding aspect of the horse would be a great addition. Thanks. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 09:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I found these two related unsourced racehorse stubs, both tagged for notability for over a decade: Secret Firm and Secret Hello. Some Googling on my part seems to confirm that they probably don't pass WP:GNG, but I don't know the first thing about horse racing/racehorses and whether any specific criteria may apply. Could someone here determine whether these articles need to be deleted or saved? Thanks! Lennart97 ( talk) 12:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Lankyant ( talk) 14:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Follow up— basically, I think Secret Hello just barely passes the criteria for GNG, as I think he won a grade one futurity as a two-year-old. I think Grozny can also be salvaged, as we have very little on races in Latin America and the one he did win appears to be quite significant. I do think it is important that we factor in that most of the sources on that article are probably in Spanish. I think that Altibr and Secret Firm can both go, as neither of them won a grade one race, nor do I see a significant record at stud. Given that we do have a SNG for race horses, I think we can apply it in these cases to help refine where the line is. Montanabw (talk) 20:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, for picking this up so quickly! Lennart97 ( talk) 10:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Clickity Clack - should it be deleted? The horse won only one non-graded stakes which was a restricted stakes which kind have been deleted at Wikipedia). Stretchrunner II ( talk) 12:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I've been working on Fleetwood Park Racetrack. My main interest is as part of Bronx history; I know almost nothing about horse racing. One thing that puzzles me about the historical sources is the mention of both the New York Driving Club and the Gentlemen's Driving Association. Were these two separate entities who ran the track at different times? Two names for the same entity? Two different entities that co-existed and did different things? Anybody know anything about this history? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
There is a titling RFC at Wikipedia talk:Article titles that will affect many articles at this project. There was discussion of making the RfC handled bit by bit before all projects understood the ramifications with entertainment being singled out next in a deleted draft, and other projects after that. Whether you agree or don't agree please join in the discussion for this massive Wikipedia change. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 10:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed that WP:NOTABILITY has been updated a little bit since the horse racing SNG was created. Basically, the notability standard now ranks GNG & SNG as coequal alternative criteria, one does not supersede the other. So I made a few minor copy edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing/Notability, and if anyone wants to look at them, now you know. ;) Montanabw (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Today I added "Popular pages" wikilink for "WikiProject Horse racing" to the project page. Popular pages is a bot-generated (monthly) list of pageviews, useful for focused cleanup of frequently viewed articles. Regards, JoeNMLC ( talk) 17:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed a dearth of articles and information on horse racing in Latin America (probably largely due to a similar dearth of available sources in English). Thus far, almost everything (racetracks, graded/group stakes races, notable people and horses, etc.) is either non-existent or a stub, with the occasional exception of some horses that came north to the US to race. I'm slowly trying to help fill that gap, but it's a pretty large one. The main priority is the countries of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru, since they are the largest, most important, and most notable horse racing countries in the region; Argentina in particular. Uruguay, Puerto Rico, Panama, and Venezuela are of lesser but still notable importance, and a lot of notable US racehorses did a significant amount in Mexico in the 20th century, even if modern racing in the country is much less notable. There is also some racing/breeding in Ecuador, Columbia, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Bolivia, and Guatemala, but probably not of enough importance to be anything more than noted as existing.
The main international group in the region is OSAF, and they have a
website in English. I have compiled a list of potential sources (mostly in Spanish and Portuguese, although with a few in English). I would greatly appreciate any help or recommendations for articles of priority to create/edit (I keep flitting between giving primary priority to important G1 races, racetracks, prominent people, top modern horses, and horses of significant historical importance).
TabbyLadrona (
talk) 16:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
A new proposal is now pending to add language to NSPORT providing, among other things, that "meeting [NSPORTS or NHORSERACING] would not serve as a valid keep argument in a deletion discussion." If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, please feel free to add your comments at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Subproposal 1 (NSPORT). Cbl62 ( talk) 18:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm thinking of nominating
Garde Champetre for deletion. Cross-country specialist and a Cheltenham Festival winner, but his highest-level win was a Grade 2 novices' chase hurdle. I can't see any great claim to notability here. Any views? --
Bcp67 (
talk) 21:05, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a debate about how to display the age at death of a horse, discussion at Talk:Bobs Worth#Age at death/horse age. Would be good to get the views of project members. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 13:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
After a hiatus, I've finally found time to get back doing British jockey biographies. I've built a script to help generate infoboxes and it occurred to me - I'm not aware of any agreed criteria on what goes in them. Are there any? My default has been:
The races are then duplicated in the major races section of the main article. I'm kind of ambivalent about this - it feels like unnecessary duplication, but then again I'm sure some people prefer them listed here than the infobox. I'm also ambivalent at what goes in them. For the likes of Moore or Dettori, the listing seems to go on forever, even with just G1s, but for some lesser known jockeys it feels like major handicaps might be worth including as career landmarks. The long and the short of it is - what do we want in the infoboxes/major races list? Peaky76 ( talk) 22:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed a brand new editor has been adding unsourced promotional material to China Horse Club. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 18:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed several times that some people on Wikipedia seem to like to use "who" to refer to racehorses. For examples, see the opening sentence of Secretariat (horse), Seattle Slew, War Admiral, Whirlaway and Rombauer (horse). To me it seems a bit strange. I doubt that is generally done for other animals. Is this a widely supported convention? Has this been previously discussed as a matter of Wikipedia MoS convention? — BarrelProof ( talk) 06:32, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
I opened a further discussion of this issue at WT:MOS#Using "who/whose/her/him/hers/his" in the context of named individual animals. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, just over from the cricket project. I was looking to expand this rather obscure Hampshire cricketer, only to find out he was a rather successful jockey, riding in 1,064 races and winning 332 of these. I wonder if anyone here can find some reliable sources for his horse racing career? Cheers, StickyWicket ( talk) 19:38, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Can anyone please add a race summary to 2022 Grand National ASAP so we can get it on the In The News? Lankyant ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently created an article for Sonny Leon, the jockey of Rich Strike, the winner of the 2022 Kentucky Derby. His notability has been questioned. I think he meets notability requirements with the derby win. Thriley ( talk) 03:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not much of a horse racing guy, but I saw Lester Piggott up at WP:ITN/C. Are the jerseys for all major events underneath the infobox really suitable? On mobile it takes up between 5 and 8 full screens before you can through the remainder of the article prose. This seems quite crufty to me. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Only one set of thumbnails should be shown unless user explicitly expands to show more. However the templates used do not seem to collapse correctly on mobile. I will investigate and try to get templates updated. JockeyColours ( talk)
Munnings 2006 ( Speightstown - La Comete, by Holy Bull) never won a G1 but did win 3 G2s including Woody Stephens Stakes, Tom Fool Handicap and the now Listed Gulfstream Park Sprint Championship Stakes. However, what's more impressive about Munnings has evolved as a sire. He now has sired five G1 winners including multiple G1 winner Jack Christopher who this Saturday also won the now G1 Woody Stephens Stakes. He's on my do list but if someone wants to start I'll help out. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 17:45, 12 June 2022 (UTC) @ Brudder Andrusha: if you haven't gotten started on this, just FYI that WP:NHORSERACING clearly allows sires of significance (i.e. Tapit) to be deemed notable even if their own race record was modest. Montanabw (talk) 16:59, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
There appear to be almost 400 horse-related articles that link the word "turf" like this: [[grass|turf]]
. This odd way of linking made sense in the years before 2016, when
Turf was a disambiguation page and
Grass a broad-concept article. But that's not the case anymore: "Grass" is now a redirect to the plant family
Poaceae, which is clearly not the intended meaning here.
What should we do about these? Assuming there are no instances of "turf" simply referring to horse racing in general, we could either change the link to point to something more relevant ( Turf? Sports turf? an as-of-yet-nonexistent redirect to a relevant section of Horse racing?), or unlink it altogether (per MOS:OL).
Any thoughts or ideas? – Uanfala ( talk) 13:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
With all the frenzy about Flightline an unreferenced addition to his statistics to include his Beyer Speed Figure in his statistics. My problem with this inclusion, is that there is already a reference for his performance from Equibase in his statistics - not Daily Racing Form where the Beyers are published. Equibase provides a timeform rating which is included in the general "Results" not in each individual race result. These kind of inclusions open a can of worms. In particular, changing format of the Statistics table (which IMO should be standardized), updating other horse's statistics, etc. Thoughts from others? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Seems like it would be information to mention, on pages like that for St. Simon, that strong l DNA evidence now shows a divergence between the GSB pedigree and some actual genetic lineages.
The correction significantly changes the apparent contemporary influence of founding sire lines.
“According to pedigree information only few of the tested males trace back paternally to Byerley Turk… All 30 patrilineal descendants that coalesce in Herod, born in 1758, whose ancestry in turn traces back to Byerley Turk, carried the Tb-oB1 specific allele 208… We also confirmed Tb-oB1 in eleven horses tracing back to St. Simon, born in 1881. According to stud records, St. Simon was the son of Galopin, born in 1872, who was sired by Vedette, born in 1854. The line should trace back to Eclipse, born in 1764 (Fig. 3) according to stud books. All descendants of St. Simon carry Tb-oB1, undoubtedly the HT of Herod (Fig. 3), and not that of Eclipse (Tb-dW*). Thus, an incorrect paternity assignment must have occurred in this lineage. In a discussion recorded in the early to mid 19th century, one party claimed that instead of Vedette a moderate performer named Delight, born in 1863, a Byerley Turk descendant (Fig. 3b), fathered Galopin; our molecular data support this view.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42640-w#MOESM10 Greenineugene ( talk) 17:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
How do I ask for a restriction on editing a page? specifically Kent Desormeaux. I seem to be in an edit war with an anonymous user who can't understand that even Equibase can make mistakes, and insists on removing very well sourced info. Driving me crazy! See my page for details if you're interested. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 02:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I've just created an article about Cody's Wish. I'm sure there is more that can be elaborated upon in that article, so any help to expand would be appreciated. Thanks! JRHorse ( talk) 18:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Looking at Amounis#Race_record, I see abbreviations like "f" and "l". What do these mean? I'd like to expand them for clarity or link to a definition somewhere. Is "l" not the same as "lengths"? -- Beland ( talk) 21:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:Thoroughbred#Infobox_Image which may be of interest to members of this project. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 18:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Most of the UK horse racing content originates from List_of_British_National_Hunt_races and it's flat (and Irish) equivalents. Recently I saw that all Premier Handicaps except ONE listed on this page had their own pages, so it seemed logical to fill that gap. I therefore created Byrne Group Handicap Chase. This page has now been rejected with reason: "not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG", and the page automatically redirects back to List_of_British_National_Hunt_races. As I have been involved in the creation of many of these race pages I am well aware of the format used and have replicated that. It is therefore certain that there are 100+ pages that have been accepted which differ in no significant way to this one that has been rejected.
Similarly when reading recently about Cheltenham Gold Cup winners of the eighties I became aware that there was no page for the Edward Hanmer Chase (at Haydock) which many used as an early season target on the way to the big race. Convinced of its notability, I therefore researched and created a page: Draft:Edward_Hanmer_Memorial_Chase but this was rejected on grounds of notability and lack of reliable sources. As the sources used were Timeform Annuals and the Racing Post website my personal feeling is that for the topic of British Horse Racing there is nothing more reliable!
I understand that the reviewers have a difficult job and are working hard to maintain the quality and standards of Wikipedia content, but there seems to be a disconnect here between their overall view and that of people working within a specific area who have a deeper knowledge of what is and what isn't both reliable and notable.
I would have no issue with a judgement that the vast majority of Premier Handicaps are not notable and so should not have their own pages. However if a decision has been taken (or simply evolved) to catalog the current state of UK Racing down to Group 3 (Premier Handicap) level then a full picture is surely better than a partial one.
Likewise if we have a format that has been used to successfully document hundreds of races can it not be agreed with reviewers that this is equally appropriate for any new pages that are created. I believe that we have an admirably consistent approach to the layout of these race pages, but over the years some have been flagged with Reviewer warnings (which have never been removed) and now it seems new pages will be rejected completely.
It is certainly counter productive if an Us against Them feeling might exist between contributors and reviewers, so is it possible that guidelines and formats specific to Horse Racing can be fed back to Review teams to ensure that we all have a common goal and pull together not against each other? ( JockeyColours ( talk) 13:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC))
Many pages of animals do not have either wikiprojects attached to them or even existant talk pages, on this linked post i listed in my sandbox (since otherwise it would clogged a lot) about 300 such pages, some of which are pertinent to this wikiproject, notably around 96 horses and 1 pony breed. There is probably also a few others pages (hippodromes, etc) that could be pertinent to this project.
Entry of the talk page : Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Are_individual_animals_page_in_the_WikiProjectMammals_?
Cheers ! Gimly24 ( talk) 21:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent
Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class=
parameter to {{
WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{
WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom
parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.
Aymatth2 (
talk) 14:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Loose horse is being discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25#Loose horse. The discussion would greatly benefit from input from editors knowledgeable about horse racing and/or horses more generally. Thryduulf ( talk) 08:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The inductees have been announced and a discussion has been started on whether the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame page should be updated now or when formally the induction occurs during the Saratoga meeting in August. @ JRHorse: has updated each individual articles with a reference indicating of the honor bestowed. My feeling is that this is not a WP:CRYSTAL issue. Since events in the future are well documented if there is adequate references and sourcing. Thoughts ? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 |
Hi there, I was wondering if anyone else would like to help me get the Northern Dancer article in GA or even FA shape. Looking for suggestions on both content and style, plus places where we might want to dig a little deeper. I've got two excellent books to comb for any desired details, plus can go through the NYTimes archives to expand on key sections. Just looking for perspective. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 15:07, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
The Gulfstream Park Turf Handicap is now known as the Pegasus World Cup Turf. It can't really be found on google or other search engines unless it is officially moved over. I attempted to do so, but there were issues with it. Can anyone fix it?
Thanks KatoKungLee ( talk) 00:04, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
I come across a problem fairly regularly where non-Grade 1 wins are added into the "Major wins" sections for jump jockeys and trainers. The races usually added are the Grand National, Irish Grand National, Galway Plate and Galway Hurdle, all significant handicap races. Our standard for the Major Wins sections for National Hunt are pretty clear- wins in current Grade 1 races go in, everything else stays out (although there is a different issue where a race has been raised to G1 status and past wins at a lower status are also shown). The problem for jump racing for me is that something like the Grand National is undoubtedly a "major win" by the standards of prize money and prestige, but as a handicap race it's not a G1 race and never will be.
Would it make sense to have a section titled "Grade 1 wins" and another for "other major wins" and some criteria for those? There would be more issues raised there, you could add all sorts of things to other major wins and make it a very long section - example, I'd say that the Ladbrokes Trophy is one of the major races of the British jumps season, whereas the Bet365 Gold Cup has perhaps been one in the past but less prestigious now. Others might not agree with me!! Or do we stick with the cut and dried criteria of a top-level race being a major win (Grade 1 or Group 1 according to country and naming convention) and remove any other wins which get added? -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi! I'm reviewing Booker (horse), and thought I'd ask if there's any accepted notability standard for race horses. It seems to me this horse is non-notable per the GNG, but I welcome your opinions. Best, PK650 ( talk) 21:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Secret Firm &
Secret Hello
These one-line only articles need attention. They have been on Wikipedia since 2010.
My article
Equality Stakes has the {{
notability}}
tag that needs assessment. The article needs the tag removed or be deleted.
Stretchrunner (
talk) 20:26, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I have been using the break between flat seasons (which seems to get shorter every year) to do some updates on racehorse articles. I've found quite a few articles which are half-finished or stop abruptly half way through a horse's track career. This usually happens when a horse makes a big early splash but then grinds away for a couple more years without achieving anything spectacular. Today I found Idaho which I have been working on just now and Satono Diamond but I bet there will be a few others. Most of these are articles I started but forgot to update. Let me know if you find any others, I'd like to get this finished in the next few weeks. I'm sticking to European and Japanese flat racers up to the end of 2019 because that's what I can manage. Tigerboy1966 19:54, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
The National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame external web site has been taken down by its owners National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame. They are making renovations to it. It will be back in July 2020. They are not leaving the existing web site up in the meantime, just a renovation message. This will be extremely inconvenient to all of the hall of fame inductee articles. For the time being, you could use this archive page for links to the main racing hall of fame page: National Racing Museum and Hall of Fame external website.
The 2020 Hall of Fame induction ceremony will take place on Friday, Aug. 7 at 10:30 a.m. at Fasig-Tipton. I have located the following Internet Archive Wayback Machine sites that can be used instead (up to the 2018 inductees). Or, you can just wait for the Internet Archive Bot to do the replacements. Once the new site is up in July, then the citations can be changed to the live links. Here are the links to the archive. It really doesn't matter which ones you use from 2018 or 2019 (up to the captures which just ones that capture the announcement). None of them capture the ones with the 2019 inductees.
The article about Shirley Heights is undergoing a lot of editing at the moment - looks like it is going to need a lot of revision afterwards! Could someone have a look and see if they can repair some of the damage. I'll give it a go myself when I have time. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 16:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Until today, only me have edited about Impact of the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic on sports#Horse racing information, including Grand National meeting. France Galop informed suspend all meeting until 13 April. Also, some jockeys cannot travel during country and jockey clubs ban. This maybe update quickly, please help me. -- Horsemeister ( talk) 07:09, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Sources
That's right. The $100,000 Maryland Hunt Cup is the last Saturday in April. And they are not going to cancel it. A chance to see Senior Senator try for his fourth win and break the record. Senior Senator eyes fourth Hunt cup win. Several horses have won it three times, including Hall of Fame horse Jay Trump. Hall of Fame horse Ben Nevis (known as Ben Nevis II in the US) won it twice. Both horses won the Grand National in England.
The Maryland Hunt Cup is the greatest timber race in all of the world! Saturday, April 25, 2020. The 124th Running. The Maryland Hunt Cup dawnleelynn (talk) 23:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Can some admin follow through with the requested move of the Australian Group 1 event, The BMW -> to the registered name H E Tancred Stakes due to drop of sponsership? I'm not able to do the move myself because there exists a redirect already for the H E Tancred Stakes. A requested move was made seven days ago but its gone into backlog. No one has made an objection with two confirmations as seen in Talk:The_BMW. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi, a new draft Draft:Wolver Hollow has been submitted to AfC with difficult to verify sources. It looks good to me, but it would be good if someone with knowledge of the subject area gave it a look. Cheers KylieTastic ( talk) 17:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi again, there are two other submitted drafts (both previously rejected) if anyone wants to comment on them, or try to improve them to acceptability if possible
Cheers KylieTastic ( talk) 13:00, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here. HickoryOughtShirt?4 ( talk) 00:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
A Category for Discussion on the Inter Dominion Hall of Fame for its two categories has been added. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 April 15#Category:Inter Dominion Hall of Fame. The authoring editor did not see fit to add a notice here, so I am. dawnleelynn (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
So I have made entries for the Epsom Derbies from 1980 to 2000 and would hope to bring that up to 2019 by the end of the month. Nevertheless this concept is not my property and as enjoyable as the research can be, I would not be upset to find other years (or better yet, other races) receiving the same work. The format and criteria for inclusion of offspring has thus far been largely improvised and discretionary. While not an advocate of prescriptivism, it might be worth considering some form of standardisation. The current format, which has arisen organically, broadly follows these principles;-
Insofar as matters of ambiguity are concerned, the greatest areas of contention might pertain to which races qualify as classic races. For example, neither the Irish St. Leger nor the Prix Royal-Oak are exclusively for horses of the "classic" generation while the Premio Regina Elena has deteriorated from a Group One into a Group Three contest. I am not certain how to resolve this and while I might be inclined to favour discretion (Order Of St George was probably classic standard, Royal Diamond probably wasn't), I would rather act on a more general consensus. I imagine that distinguishing between internationally recognised Group Ones and their local counterparts should be relatively straightforward. As for the extent and scope of these sections, I would be in favour of the current format which offers a more broad overview than anything exhaustive. Not least because of the energy required for production and maintenance but also that pertinent elaborations might be better placed within the article of the stallion himself. Kotkijet ( talk) 17:13, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks for your input, particularly where the American Classics are concerned. I fear I may have turned what initially seemed like a fun and straightforward endeavour into a rather murky and chaotic affair. Notwithstanding, this is a voluntary labour of love so it is with calmness and joy that I have settled on this criteria for the European races at least. The Italian ones look rather ridiculous but given that breeding is the driving force behind these updates, I felt that bloodstock sales catalogues were probably the most authoritative guide for these purposes;-
Classic Races (all to count unless stated otherwise)
1000 Guineas Stakes, 2000 Guineas Stakes, Epsom Oaks, Epsom Derby, St Leger Stakes
Irish 1,000 Guineas, Irish 2,000 Guineas, Irish Derby, Irish Oaks, Irish St. Leger (3yo)
Poule d'Essai des Pouliches, Poule d'Essai des Poulains, Prix du Jockey Club, Prix de Diane, Prix Royal-Oak (3yo)
Deutsches Derby, Preis der Diana (since 2001)
Premio Regina Elena (1984-1985), Premio Parioli (1981, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1990, 1995), Derby Italiano (up to 2008), Oaks d'Italia (1976-2006)
Kentucky Derby,
Preakness Stakes,
Belmont Stakes,
Kentucky Oaks,
Coaching Club American Oaks
While several Canadian Grade Ones are internationally recognised, unfortunately none of the triple crown races counted amongst them.
Randwick Guineas, Rosehill Guineas, Australian Derby
Oka Sho,
Satsuki Shō,
Yushun Himba,
Tokyo Yūshun,
Kikuka-shō (all since 2001)
Group Ones
Internationally recognised, non-handicap, Grade Ones can be used from all aforementioned nations as well as Canada. South American and South African Grade/Group Ones can be used as notes of interest but not as qualifiers.
Kotkijet (
talk) 20:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello. There's currently a redirect discussion I started at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 3#Stayer which relates to the horse racing article currently located at Stayer (horse). It has been noted that Stayer (horse) is quite short, so I wonder if someone more knowledgeable could expand that article? (or perhaps you agree with the suggestion in the move discussion that it should be merged into a glossary article? Anyway, any input would be appreciated) Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 04:03, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
To this Project group. I have created a new article - List of American and Canadian Graded races which is an equivalent to the lists that exist for the British, Australia and South American Group races. This list is for the 2019 season as per the references used. There are external articles that exists for the current season (2020) but I left updating this new article after the initial article was created and for anyone who is interested. Also since the season is affected by Covid-19 the list may be difficult to track. A partial list of Grade 1 currently exists in the Graded stakes race article. Now there is a bit of a mismatch since this article is complete and maybe the section in the Graded article point with a wikilink to this new list. All this is debatable and I'll let the gallery have their say.
To create this list I first made sure that every event in that list had an article. Hence, there were about ~27 new articles created for missing Grade 2 and 3 events around the country. A fair amount of effort went into creating these articles and all of them have enough references that should keep them from being tagged as unverifiable. In fact I tried to have a reference for each winner that was included in the winners section. This is not the case in many of the existing articles. Hope the list helps as a reference because I use the other racing list and they are very helpful. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:05, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
There has been quite a bit of dispute at Talk:Pat Day alleging biased and unsupported content at Pat Day. I know nothing about horse racing, but if someone here is interested, it appears to need some sorting out. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 13:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
WP:DATELIST = Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists
There are at least four Thoroughbred horse races where an embedded table setup has been reversed by a Wikipedia editor. The edit summary reasoning stated: →Winners: reverse order so chrono, remove {{cleanup section|date=December 2019|reason=dates in reverse chronological order, contrary to WP:DATELIST.}}
The WP:DATELIST = Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists is not a policy, it is a guideline that allows exceptions and this is an exception that is important for Wikipedia to act in concert with the U.S. industry. To do that, we have hundreds of existing U. S. horse race articles with an embedded table beginning with the year for the latest race. Racetracks throughout the U.S. that provide a list of annual race winners online start with the most recent year first as per the sample list below. Plus, the very important Equibase Co LLC database starts with the most recent year [2] as does Pedigree Query, a massive database edited by volunteers which automatically places any individual race result by most recent year when created. [3]
Updating horse race article tables:
For Wikipedia editors, or viewers, having the first line of the race table start with the most recent year means the viewer instantly knows if it's up to date. If it is the last year first, a great many will not take the time to check to see if it's up to date or not, even if they understand the table is sortable.
In Wikipedia's horse race articles there is often a historical section. These always begin with the first notable event relevant to the race like the Melbourne Cup#Timeline of notable events. In cases where sub-headers are used, each begins with the first notable information relevant to the race such as in the Golden Rod Stakes (Sheepshead Bay).
list of examples
|
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NYRA - the 3 tracks all owned by the State of New York:
|
Even when a race such as the Breeders' Cup series is not in table form but instead each year is an individual page, the dropdown starts at the most recent year. [19] In pre-digital times when the Daily Racing Form (DRF) and other U.S. horse racing publications were printed on paper, a table of race results did begin with the earliest year. However, for readers of printed matter it was only a glance to find the latest or any other year's result on such a list and most of those lists were fairly short. And, in those days typesetting costs meant the order didn't change. [20]
All Wikipedia horse race articles get their highest number of views on race day. Today users want quick or "instant gratification" when accessing information online. The advent of the digital era saw racetrack operators learn very quickly that people searching their websites for information were there in volume to find that day's race results and increasingly so wanted the latest info to appear first. This is demonstrated through the link above to a Santa Anita Park page which has one page that provides links to annual media guides. The Stronach Group does the same thing for their Pimlico Race Course.
Every day that there is a horse race going on in the United States there is an online story with race details. Viewers coming to Wikipedia have the unique option of usually being able to click on the name of a horse, jockey, trainer or owner to obtain biographical info. Instantly seeing that latest result on the table's first line when they open the article is essential. Hence, there will be a considerable spike in page views on race day and often the day after. This viewing habit can be seen in the following Wikipedia examples:
Some selected examples and commentary
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USA: 2019 Kentucky Derby winning jockey Flavien Prat [22] 2019 Kentucky Derby winning trainer Bill Mott [23]] The number of page views increases dramatically on race day even for a Grade 3 race such as the Withers Stakes run on Feb. 2, 2019. Note that the Wiki page did not include the 2019 results and wasn't updated until September 24. [24] And, even an ungraded stakes such as the Glens Falls Stakes with no table still gets a substantial increase in views on race day. [25]
England:
|
Similar to the recording of a horse race, and for the same reasoning, the Wikipedia Eclipse Award, Cartier Racing Award and earlier National Champion awards all have a table(s) that begins with the most recent year. Externally, the U.S. awards list can be seen in this DRF website [32] and this Blood-Horse magazine online Champions chart. The Bloodhorse.com Champion's history charts.
A winners' table starting with the latest year's result is not exclusive to Thoroughbred racing.
From the following two lists of sports clubs and the media it appears most every type of sports and media organizations could soon be publishing their online results history beginning with the most recent year.
Lots of examples
|
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The official
NBA website records begin with the most recent year:
[33] The official National Hockey League website records begin with the most recent year: [34] The official NFL Pro Football Hall of Fame website records for Champions begins with the most recent year: [35] The official Australian Open tennis website records begin with the most recent year: [36] The official Stade Roland Garros French Open tennis website records begin with the most recent year: [37] The official The Championships, Wimbledon tennis website records opens with the most recent: [38] The official USTA Men's Singles Champions 1881 - 2019 begins with the most recent year: [39] The official World Lacrosse - international federation for men’s and women’s lacrosse: [40] The official Men's Softball World Championship winners begins with the most recent year: [41]
MEDIA: NCAA Division I Men's Lacrosse Championship (Turner Broadcasting et al) winners begins with the most recent year: [43] Sporting News - Indianapolis 500 winners begin with the most recent year: [44] USA Today - Year-by-year Indianapolis 500 winners since 1911 begins with the most recent year: [45]
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Stretchrunner ( talk) 21:31, 18 May 2020 (UTC)
So, am I accurately stating the consensus of the project that we are approaching these racing date lists in a way analogous to spelling in WP:ENGVAR, in that we follow the style used by the nation (or whatever relevant entity) in question? In other words, lists of North American and Australian races may be recent first, while we should keep the lists of European and Japanese (and presumably the rest of Asia) races oldest first? That said, I believe the individual horse articles have charts that are all chronological, first race to last. Montanabw (talk) 17:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Somebody created this their first and only article before being blocked Category:Alydar offspring with its only entry Alysheba. Should it be deleted? Stretchrunner ( talk) 15:56, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Because it is very important in a horse's bio, I'd like to see a new Category for T'bred Horses that reflects a properly referenced fact in the bio that during it's racing career the horse established a New Track Record(s). Would like input as well as suggestions for a Category name to be used. Stretchrunner ( talk) 13:59, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
I added a section on the article purse distribution about bonuses and added money, hoping to illustrate the difference between the stated purse and the total amounts paid out. Can someone give it a lookover to see if it makes sense? Also, I'd appreciate some input on whether this is relevant in Europe. I don't see an explanation on racingpost about how the purse is distributed equivalent to the one that goes on the top of each chart on Equibase. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 01:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
One comment. When we are talking races that get an individual article for each year, like the 2019 Kentucky Derby, to include purse distribution makes sense. However, I hope we aren't talking about articles about races where we just update a list of winners or win-place-show, such as the San Carlos Stakes because this will create a perpetual nightmare of constantly updating every article every year. To say the total purse is X, is fine, but if we get into the weeds, we risk turning these articles into Equibase, which is kind of beyond the scope. Maybe just a citation in the list to the charts is all that's needed. Montanabw (talk) 21:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
This apparently solitary category is inconsistent with everything editors have done in horse racing articles at Wikipedia. It is unwarranted and I think should be deleted. Please comment.
Stretchrunner (
talk) 14:25, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
Category:Racehorses trained by Fred Rimell
I think it would be great if every Project member would pitch in to ensure that all horses in the following articles each have a Pedigree Chart: Stretchrunner ( talk) 15:25, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi all. My main focus is on Australian Racing. Not sure if any one has noticed but in the past all references to previous major winners in Australia was done through the website ‘breednet.com.au’. Well, they have since removed all these results from their webpage, click on any link to any major winner In Australia now and what appears is nothing or a page saying “this has been moved”. It looks bad. I've been thinking due to this it would be an ideal time to update Australian results of major races more in line with European and US racing Results which includes the jockey as well as trainer with a reference also. Does anyone object to Australian racing changing to this style also... I know it would be a big tast to change over to this style but I am willing to get stuck into it, however wanted to hear other users opinions and not tread on any toes. Look forward to your feedback. Sunline02 ( talk) 07:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks Brudder. I will leave it be. It seems some of the breednet.com references are there, some are not. Sunline02 ( talk) 12:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi all, I just noticed that someone added Sire line trees to a bunch of articles, mostly last November. I find them excessively long, tracing various horses (not only Thoroughbreds but some others as well) to the dawn of time. They are not sourced fully (and thus of dubious accuracy) and, frankly, we aren't pedigreequery.com. One example is here. I reverted three or four, but then figured out the editor who had put them all in, realized it's been someone who has been around for a while, and so I figured I'd better take it here before I toss the rest of them. Thoughts? Montanabw (talk) 05:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Renaming discussion that may be of interest to project members here Montanabw (talk) 06:32, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Dear horse-racing experts: This draft has been waiting a long time at WP:AFC for a review. Can someone take a look and see if this is a notable horse? Thanks.— Anne Delong ( talk) 22:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
It appears that the horse profiles that used to be at
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=######
have been moved to
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/######/
. Mostly the old address forwards to the new one, but not always - sometimes clicking on the old URL just leads to a blank page. But even in those cases, inserting the horse id into the new address format returns the right page, at least in the few random examples I've tried. It rather looks like there needs to be a mass conversion of the citation URLs to the new format; and the associated publisher=Bloodstock.racingpost.com
parameter also should be updated to something like website=Racing Post profile
.
Colonies Chris (
talk) 13:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
This seems to be both more complicated and simpler than I originally thought. Simpler in that it looks like the distinction between sires and dams in the URLs is gone - so for example, what used to be at
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/dam/dam_home.sd?horse_id=439081#damTabs=dam_progeny_sales
is now found at
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/thimblerigger/progeny-sales
(albeit that tab is paywalled), and you can get to the correct page without having to insert the horse name into the url (the website's software does that automatically). But you can't get to a specific tab without supplying the name (using the example above,
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/
will get you to the horse's page, but going straight to a different tab without the name (
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/439081/progeny-sales
) does not work. Seemingly the horse name has to be converted to lowercase and any spaces replaced by hyphens (e.g.
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/104011/danehill-dancer/fee-history
. And special characters such as ' and . have to be removed e.g.
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/757547/roderic-oconnor
and
https://www.racingpost.com/profile/horse/301599/mr-prospector
Colonies Chris (
talk) 10:13, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
bloodstock.racing.com
URLs, and trying out a few regexes; based on what I've discovered, I'd like to propose a way forward. There are already many templates whose job is to build a URL for a reference database, such as {{
ProQuest}} or {{
PMID}}. They are invoked by replacing the url=
parameter of {{
cite web}} by id={{ProQuest|123456}}
, for example. They encapsulate the URL-building in one place; this means that any future reorganisation of the Racing Post database would only require a change to the template rather than to hundreds of articles. Since it will be be necessary to scan and modify all the articles now, it would be good to take this opportunity to futureproof them.{{Racing Post horse|######}}
would need one to three parameters. At a minimum, and in most cases, just horse-id
, extracted from the current URL. For those URLs that specify a tab, such as the Thimblerigger example above, the horse name and the tab identifier would also be needed. I can build the template; it would be pretty straightforward. Converting all the current URLs that just have the horse-id from url=
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/stallionbook/stallion.sd?horse_id=######
or
http://bloodstock.racingpost.com/dam/dam_home.sd?horse_id=######
to {{Racing Post horse|######}}
could be easily done by a bot, I think, or I can share my regexes and the workload can be spread across any editors who'd like to take it on via AWB (there are some complications at the end of some of the existing URLs that need to be handled, but regexes can easily deal with that). The more complex cases - the ones that specify a tab and therefore also need a horse name - would have to be handled manually, but I think the numbers are quite small, so that's manageable. The template would handle the conversion of the horse name as described above (lowercasing, etc.), so it would just need to be passed the horse name in its everyday format. How does this sound?
Colonies Chris (
talk) 19:34, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
access-date
parameter, which is not accepted for this sort of database reference, and the work=Racing Post
parameter is no longer needed as the generated reference includes that link. Also I've removed the publisher=Bloodstock.racingpost.com
parameter, which is no longer correct. All these changes can easily be performed with regexes in AWB, or by a bot. Any observations?
Colonies Chris (
talk) 19:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=9314281®istry=T&horse_name=American%20Pharoah&dam_name=Littleprincessemma&foaling_year=2012&nicking_stats_indicator=Y
- but experiment shows that just the horse id -
http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=9314281
leads to the same webpage).
Colonies Chris (
talk) 10:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
|horse-id=
required parameter e.g. {{cite Racing Post horse profile|horse=id=300543|title=Port Etienne stud record|date=15 February 2012}}
. As before, an example of this method can be seen in
Barton (horse). A similar approach could be taken for Equiline and Equibase citations. They've also suggested that a request at
WP:URLREQ would be the best way to actually get the change made, so if there are no objections, I'll make a suitable request there.
Colonies Chris (
talk) 18:43, 20 September 2020 (UTC)A summary of what's been done. Thanks largely to the bot operated by User:GreenC, all the old-format Racing Post citation links have either been converted to the new format, or those that had no conversion available have had an archive link added to them; some links that had been marked dead and archived were recovered using the new URL format; a small number have been flagged as dead links. Detailed notes are at Wikipedia:Link_rot/URL_change_requests#Racing_Post_(cont..). Colonies Chris ( talk) 11:58, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
On a related question - what are the rules for naming horses? There's nothing in Wikipedia that I can find; there are many online articles on the subject, but they're mostly pretty jokey, not definitive statements. What characters are allowed? Some sources say only letters, numbers, spaces and apostrophes, but it's not hard to find names that use hyphens or full stops (see above). Does it vary by country? There are a few French horse names that use an accent (e.g. Épinard, Brantôme), but most don't, even when one would normally be present (e.g. Champs Elysees, Pas de Reponse). Colonies Chris ( talk) 13:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Every breed registry gets to make its own rules. Some breeds require all names to be unique, but don’t ban commercial identification (other than certain blatent trademark violations) so many people add random letters to the beginning of all their horse names to “brand” their farm (for example, all the horses bred by Bazy Tankersley have “AM” as a prefix, for Al-Marah, the ranch she owned) And I really have to share what happens when you allow numbers in horse names. Central European horse breeds, especially Lipizzans and breeds from Hungary, are rife with this stuff. And I think most registries banned playing around with capitalization on papers at the dawn of the computer age, they just put everything in all caps and a letter is a letter. Montanabw (talk) 06:40, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
We currently have this:
Category:American horse racing announcers.
Chic Anderson,
Larry Collmus,
Trevor Denman,
Tom Durkin etc. are race announcers but the list has many who are strictly limited to commenting (
Sports commentator), i.e
Jerry Bailey,
Donna Barton Brothers. A few like
Mike Battaglia have been both.
I changed it to:
Category:American horse racing commentators as a sub category of the usual U.S. horse racing etc. plus this
Category:Sports commentators
Stretchrunner (
talk) 15:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
I reverted this unsourced edit which stated there was a former "Derby racetrack" at this location north of Toronto, Canada. I've been unable to locate any information about the track. If anyone has any info it would be great to add it to an article. Thanks. Magnolia677 ( talk) 16:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Eyes on this article folks. Our gal is attracting the wrong kind of attention. Tigerboy1966 11:23, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
I worked on Violet Stakes and when done this [2] appeared immediatey under the Reference section title. Can't figure it out. Looks like a link to a website but when I clicked on it nothing happens. Thanks. Stretchrunner ( talk) 16:33, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. Just a heads up that we've got a new user User:Jsargent2504 who is switching text to table, especially for breeding records. Trying to treat all sires like we do Galileo is just not going to work, and in the process he/she is deleting information and context. I've been reverting. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 21:46, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
Can regulars start going through and adding wikilinks, correcting my mistakes and additional refs in the new 2021 Road to the Kentucky Derby? Its about this time we start getting interested with 6 months to go. Cheers! Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 22:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some minor updates on this page and came across from the main Prep races that the Jeff Ruby Stakes (Spiral Stakes) has had the qualification points raised to Championship series - Second Leg on par with main Derbies. I'm looking for any other reference before modifying this in the article, but this doesn't surprise me that Churchill Downs Inc. made a nice deal with Turfway Park due to the change of dates last year with Covid-19 problems. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 15:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we really want this category?
Category:Filmed deaths of animals
Stretchrunner (
talk) 22:59, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 20:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
I stumbled across a conversation between @ Montanabw: and @ Stretchrunner: that I intruded upon believing that the discussion should included to all who participate on this Project. Stretchrunner has the belief that when he creates, updates, or just edit a horse race table, if possible I do my best to find and replace Owner: Mrs. John Doe with showing only HER name. It's very hard to find a female first name but if one gets lucky and does, it can take many hours. I disagree with this approach given that changing the name from what was registered when the horse won the event. If the reference (especially in the period when women were not allowed to be owners) given indicates Mrs. Joe Brown or some pseudonym like when Merman who won the 1900 Ascot Gold Cup the name should stay. If the horse is registered to be owned for example by Mrs. John Magnier then that is what should be in the table. The link can go to who the person is but the registered name is given per the reference ( WP:V). Opening this up for discussion. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:21, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I have updated this article but I do not have admin privileges to move Royal Heroine Mile Stakes to Royal Heroine Stakes due to an existing REDIRECT. The event has been run as the Royal Heroine Stakes since 2014. An uncontested technical move has been requested. Can someone with admin privileges perform this move? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 16:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia( talk) 00:58, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. Also, article creation based on Wikiproject Guidelines would be curtailed. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 09:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey all, I'm new to the site but have created a few pages for Grand National Winners who haven't got one yet and am hoping to make one for them all. I've also started going through the winners and races and standardising them (especially infoboxes, flag icons, layout) as well as adding a Grand National Record table and Pedigree for each winning horse.
The pages I've made:
Looking for feedback, thanks!
Lankyant (
talk) 18:21, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Is it at all possible to add a 'latest race' link at the bottom of the infobox on the
Grand National main page? Example being
London Marathon. Think it would be handy but can't work out how to do it. Should also be added to
Kentucky Derby.
Lankyant ( talk) 02:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a go to tool to design racing silks? Would like to get to work on adding some to add to the Grand National races if it's not too difficult.
Lankyant ( talk) 00:15, 14April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks I will do, and when I say standardise I mean more just making sure odds and flagicons are listed the same style in every race as well as adding conditions and starting prices that were missing to the infoboxes. So no major things or reworks :)
User: Lankyant 02:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Let me know which silks (which years?) you need and I will happily generate if they don't exist already JockeyColours ( talk) 07:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
And I also agree with the record tables for 1 race horses but I saw it more as a quick reference point for people to look at instead of digging into the meat of an article it gives a quick idea of the result but if you dislike I'm happy to delete.
But yes I definitely think that we should aim for a page for each winner.
And yes, I had way too much free time lately so seemed like this would be a useful way to spend it!
[User:Lankyant] 14:04, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Hey JockeyColours, sorry I didn't see your reply! That would be great and much appreciated. I will try and get something together obviously the full list for races would be grand especially for 2021 but that's a lot of work but in terms of winners we have nothing it seems pre 2000 so I know that takes some research which I will try and put together. But for now we need Bobbyjo 1999 -red top with gold sleeves. gold Lorraine cross on centre with green cap with gold stripes.
But instead of full race cards I'd like to prioritise the top 4 finishers from 2004 to 2013 and 2015, 2016, 2017 to make a place table with as we only have the winning colours currently.
Thank you!
User:Lankyant 02:33 15 April 2021
I noticed on the Bob Baffert article that there is no mention of any of the numerous doping issues over the past few years. I think they should be mentioned. Best, Thriley ( talk) 16:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I've experimented with adding a couple of new columns to the winners lists, one to show the race status for each year, and the other to link the Racing Post reference specifically to the year. I've used one of this week's races as a trial, the Westow Stakes. If you're interested, could you have a look please and give your thoughts there as to whether it's a good idea, looks useful etc. Thanks, -- Bcp67 ( talk) 11:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Dear WikiProject Horse racing. I was thinking about translating the (newly created) Italian wikipage it:Premio Presidente della Repubblica which is about a prestigious prize of the prestigious scientific institution Lincei National Academy (given every year by the Italian president). I was surprised to see that the English page is about horse racing. I'm not the right person that can evaluate the notability of that (horse racing) page. Can you please verify that the existing page meets the notability criteria? Despite the name, it doesn't seem connected to the Italian institutions. -- SimoneD89 ( talk) 18:24, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
Your edit : Broadway Stakes (NYB) moved to draftspace
All Thoroughbred racing in the United States is governed by state gambling laws. Hence, there is only one legal source for referencing those races, that being the racetrack proprietor who holds the gambling license. In the case of the Broadway Stakes, it is owned by the New York Racing Association (NYRA) and all information contained in the Wikipedia article on the Broadway Stakes is derived from the referenced NYRA. Note that in this case the NYRA is a government entity owned by the State of New York. In articles where there might be information not covered by the track owner, i.e. comments about the events during the race that the jockey moved too early etc., or a comment that the horse had not run for two months due to an injury, or the winner lost for the first time in four starts, and more. Those comments come from the media and are referenced at Wikipedia to reputable sources such as the Daily Racing Form, Thoroughbred Daily News, the New York Times, Blood-horse magazine and the like. Further, Equibase Co., LLC is an official source having been authorized as such by racetrack owners plus by licensed breeders for pedigree records. However, Equibase Co., LLC only document races back to 1976 and in a great many cases the races created at Wikipedia go way past that to times as early as 1860. Note too, there are defunct/discontinued races from long ago, many of which are because the racetrack closed or were forced to close through state anti-gambling legislation such as the Hart-Agnew Law. For these historically important Wikipedia articles, we use very reliable sources as references. I hope this helps but I think it would be a lot easier for you and others who work hard to ensure quality for Wikipedia but who don't have in-depth expertise on this particular subject to leave a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing where someone knowledgeable will certainly answer it. Kindly reverse your edit. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk) 20:30, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Update: - Article was deleted. This brings up the question why there is a category of Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States which now has one less entry at 30, and whether the events in this category would qualify under WP:NHORSERACING. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 14:31, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. Can I ask for help reviewing any and all pages related to the 2021 Kentucky Derby. Although the second sample for Medina Spirit was also positive, he has NOT yet been disqualified. That decision will be made by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, which will deliberate at its own sweet pace. (For reference, it took four years before Dancer's Image DQ was officially official.) Folks want to jump ahead of the process though and change the winner. I'm updating as I come across stuff. Oh, and the ban of Baffert at Churchill Downs is official, for now, but we don't yet know to what extent it will be followed at other tracks. Bloodhorse has lots of stuff. I'm using the WaPo article for now, and I expect NYT will have some great stuff since they broke the story on Justify's positive. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 00:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. I don’t normally create articles in this area, but in researching a different topic, I came across John Rickman the longtime broadcaster journalist of British horse races and created a quick stub. The article is currently an orphan. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 18:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
An Afd has been entered for the article about Hot Rod Charlie. Hot Rod Charlie has only won a Grade II event. IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 23:41, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was put up for deletion by WikiProject Horse racing member
User:Brudder Andrusha who stated the following as their reasoning:
While I may strongly disagree with User:Brudder Andrusa that Thoroughbred race articles at Wikipedia should be at a minimum be graded which eliminates all Listed, Restricted, Ungraded, and Black type stakes races, I respect the opinions of the WikiProject Horse racing members who did not object to the deletion of the
Broadway Stakes (NYB) as the members were adhering to the WikiProject guidelines.
Over and above the Non-graded stakes races, there are no Graded stakes races in North America prior to 1973 and prior to 1971 for British & Irish races so this problem will have to be dealt with. Deleting the Listed, Restricted, Ungraded/Black type races represents a massive job. And, these required race deletions will have a profound effect on a multitude of other Wikipedia articles including those for jockeys, trainers, and owners. I do not know how this very difficult deleting situation should be organized in the context of "the event should be at a minimum be graded" policy.
Regarding articles for horses User:Brudder Andrusha has also stated: "IMO, a Grade I victory is a minimum to meet the criteria to have an article meeting the project requirements for WP:N and WP:GNG.
I, and obviously the industry itself, believe State/Province-bred races are a very important and vital part of Thoroughbred racing as are a number of ungraded/Black type stakes. My view is shared by many other editors at Wikipedia as evidenced by the volume of those types of articles they have created or contributed to which includes Brudder Andrusha' substantial edits and races. (e.g. Charles Town Oaks, Harlan's Holiday Stakes, Parx Dash Stakes and others). Although WikiProject's deletion policy will have enormous consequences for Wikipedia we nevertheless have to accept that the Broadway Stakes (NYB) article had to be deleted as User:Brudder Andrusha's position is that the article's deletion is enunciated in the WikiProject's established guideline and was done through the due process Wikipedia stipulates for article deletions.
There are many more such races in Wikipedia for Europe that don't meet the WikiProject guidelines and we will need a number of volunteers to help prepare them for the deletion process. There are Wikipedia articles List of British flat horse races#Other races and List of Irish flat horse races#Other races as follows, all of which will have be deleted in order to meet the WikiProject's guideline.
Similarly, there are Australian listed races like the G A Towton Cup that will have to be deleted. I could not find a list.
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Ireland:
Other articles requiring deletionAlbeit reluctantly, I will follow the WikiProject guidelines and Wikipedia policy and help as much as possible to expedite the posting of the following additional races as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion:
Category:Restricted stakes races in the United States The New York-Bred 2021 Stakes Schedule including
New York Stallion Series events
[54] has 40 races with the following values that in fact equal or far exceed the
Category:Grade 3 stakes races in the United States:
Some of those New York-Bred races already in Wikipedia are:
Other states:
All are Restricted races to horses bred either in the State of Florida or the State of California: Canada
Category:Restricted stakes races in Canada
Canadian Triple Crown races:
Ontario Sire Stakes (not listed below) Achievement Stakes Algoma Stakes Bison City Stakes Clarendon Stakes Coronation Futurity Stakes Cup and Saucer Stakes Fanfreluche Stakes Fury Stakes Jammed Lovely Stakes Ontario Damsel Stakes Ontario Lassie Stakes Plate Trial Stakes Princess Elizabeth Stakes (Canada) Queenston Stakes Shady Well Stakes Simcoe Stakes Vandal Stakes Wonder Where Stakes Woodbine Oaks
In addition to the above Canadian Restricted races there are forty Ungraded stakes races in Canada that will also have to be deleted. They are:
Alywow Stakes
Ballade Stakes Belle Mahone Stakes Bold Ruckus Stakes Bull Page Stakes Bunty Lawless Stakes Charlie Barley Stakes Chief Bearhart Stakes Classy 'N Smart Stakes Colin Stakes Deputy Minister Stakes Display Stakes Duchess Stakes Frost King Stakes Glorious Song Stakes Hill 'n' Dale Stakes Kingarvie Stakes La Prevoyante Stakes Lady Angela Stakes La Lorgnette Stakes Manitoba Derby Maple Leaf Stakes My Dear Stakes Nandi Stakes New Providence Stakes Ontario Debutante Stakes Ontario Fashion Stakes Overskate Stakes Shepperton Stakes Silver Deputy Stakes Sir Barton Stakes South Ocean Stakes Star Shoot Stakes Steady Growth Stakes Toronto Cup Stakes Vice Regent Stakes Victoria Park Stakes Victoria Stakes Victoriana Stakes Woodstock Stakes |
We currently have 66 WikiProject Horse racing members so we need to pitch in and get this cleanup done ASAP. Thanks. Stretchrunner II ( talk)
A race or a race meet that may be questionable by the general WP:GNG criteria may be notable or not by assessing the following additional factors:
These criteria do not mandate deletion, but may indicate that a competition is not notable
I hope this clarifies things, and for godsake, let's all settle down here! Montanabw (talk) 15:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Would some members from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage? I'm not sure all of the extra detail about the horse is really necessary because there's already a stand-alone article about the horse at Dark Mirage. I've started a talk page discussion about this at Talk:Tuesdee Testa#Dark Mirage for reference and would appreciate any input. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 02:17, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi all. In expanding Deaths in 1995, I discovered an obituary on horse racing journalist Richard Baerlein, who we currently have no article on. I thought someone from this project might be interested in creating one, so I dug up another source as well. Here they are:
If you have access to newspapers.com, there is also an obituary in The Guardian: here. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 22:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:58, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi y'all. If anyone knows of any sources for Mexican horse racing, I need them for details on Letruska's first six starts. Thanks! Jlvsclrk ( talk) 19:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
My draft for Barbara Jo Rubin was recently put into mainspace. According to sources, Rubin is the first woman to win a professional horse race. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 18:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if the Subsequent Group 1 wins section of 2013 Epsom Derby should include Percussionist's win in the Grand National Hurdle Stakes. Tigerboy1966 07:40, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Discussion in progress of peripheral interest to members of this project: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Celebration of Horses: The American Saddlebred. Montanabw (talk) 18:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Calling @ Tigerboy1966:, @ Bcp67:, @ Jlvsclrk:, @ Sunline02:. Please take a look at the article I've created for dual hemisphere GI winner State Of Rest. I usually don't go down this path of creating an article for a horse and I known you folks are more experienced in this area. I have missing links and a background update into the breeding aspect of the horse would be a great addition. Thanks. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 09:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I found these two related unsourced racehorse stubs, both tagged for notability for over a decade: Secret Firm and Secret Hello. Some Googling on my part seems to confirm that they probably don't pass WP:GNG, but I don't know the first thing about horse racing/racehorses and whether any specific criteria may apply. Could someone here determine whether these articles need to be deleted or saved? Thanks! Lennart97 ( talk) 12:52, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Lankyant ( talk) 14:21, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Follow up— basically, I think Secret Hello just barely passes the criteria for GNG, as I think he won a grade one futurity as a two-year-old. I think Grozny can also be salvaged, as we have very little on races in Latin America and the one he did win appears to be quite significant. I do think it is important that we factor in that most of the sources on that article are probably in Spanish. I think that Altibr and Secret Firm can both go, as neither of them won a grade one race, nor do I see a significant record at stud. Given that we do have a SNG for race horses, I think we can apply it in these cases to help refine where the line is. Montanabw (talk) 20:35, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks everyone, for picking this up so quickly! Lennart97 ( talk) 10:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Clickity Clack - should it be deleted? The horse won only one non-graded stakes which was a restricted stakes which kind have been deleted at Wikipedia). Stretchrunner II ( talk) 12:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
I've been working on Fleetwood Park Racetrack. My main interest is as part of Bronx history; I know almost nothing about horse racing. One thing that puzzles me about the historical sources is the mention of both the New York Driving Club and the Gentlemen's Driving Association. Were these two separate entities who ran the track at different times? Two names for the same entity? Two different entities that co-existed and did different things? Anybody know anything about this history? -- RoySmith (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
There is a titling RFC at Wikipedia talk:Article titles that will affect many articles at this project. There was discussion of making the RfC handled bit by bit before all projects understood the ramifications with entertainment being singled out next in a deleted draft, and other projects after that. Whether you agree or don't agree please join in the discussion for this massive Wikipedia change. Fyunck(click) ( talk) 10:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I noticed that WP:NOTABILITY has been updated a little bit since the horse racing SNG was created. Basically, the notability standard now ranks GNG & SNG as coequal alternative criteria, one does not supersede the other. So I made a few minor copy edit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Horse racing/Notability, and if anyone wants to look at them, now you know. ;) Montanabw (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi, Today I added "Popular pages" wikilink for "WikiProject Horse racing" to the project page. Popular pages is a bot-generated (monthly) list of pageviews, useful for focused cleanup of frequently viewed articles. Regards, JoeNMLC ( talk) 17:08, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed a dearth of articles and information on horse racing in Latin America (probably largely due to a similar dearth of available sources in English). Thus far, almost everything (racetracks, graded/group stakes races, notable people and horses, etc.) is either non-existent or a stub, with the occasional exception of some horses that came north to the US to race. I'm slowly trying to help fill that gap, but it's a pretty large one. The main priority is the countries of Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and Peru, since they are the largest, most important, and most notable horse racing countries in the region; Argentina in particular. Uruguay, Puerto Rico, Panama, and Venezuela are of lesser but still notable importance, and a lot of notable US racehorses did a significant amount in Mexico in the 20th century, even if modern racing in the country is much less notable. There is also some racing/breeding in Ecuador, Columbia, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Bolivia, and Guatemala, but probably not of enough importance to be anything more than noted as existing.
The main international group in the region is OSAF, and they have a
website in English. I have compiled a list of potential sources (mostly in Spanish and Portuguese, although with a few in English). I would greatly appreciate any help or recommendations for articles of priority to create/edit (I keep flitting between giving primary priority to important G1 races, racetracks, prominent people, top modern horses, and horses of significant historical importance).
TabbyLadrona (
talk) 16:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
A new proposal is now pending to add language to NSPORT providing, among other things, that "meeting [NSPORTS or NHORSERACING] would not serve as a valid keep argument in a deletion discussion." If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, please feel free to add your comments at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Subproposal 1 (NSPORT). Cbl62 ( talk) 18:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I'm thinking of nominating
Garde Champetre for deletion. Cross-country specialist and a Cheltenham Festival winner, but his highest-level win was a Grade 2 novices' chase hurdle. I can't see any great claim to notability here. Any views? --
Bcp67 (
talk) 21:05, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
There's a debate about how to display the age at death of a horse, discussion at Talk:Bobs Worth#Age at death/horse age. Would be good to get the views of project members. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 13:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
After a hiatus, I've finally found time to get back doing British jockey biographies. I've built a script to help generate infoboxes and it occurred to me - I'm not aware of any agreed criteria on what goes in them. Are there any? My default has been:
The races are then duplicated in the major races section of the main article. I'm kind of ambivalent about this - it feels like unnecessary duplication, but then again I'm sure some people prefer them listed here than the infobox. I'm also ambivalent at what goes in them. For the likes of Moore or Dettori, the listing seems to go on forever, even with just G1s, but for some lesser known jockeys it feels like major handicaps might be worth including as career landmarks. The long and the short of it is - what do we want in the infoboxes/major races list? Peaky76 ( talk) 22:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed a brand new editor has been adding unsourced promotional material to China Horse Club. Any help would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 18:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I have noticed several times that some people on Wikipedia seem to like to use "who" to refer to racehorses. For examples, see the opening sentence of Secretariat (horse), Seattle Slew, War Admiral, Whirlaway and Rombauer (horse). To me it seems a bit strange. I doubt that is generally done for other animals. Is this a widely supported convention? Has this been previously discussed as a matter of Wikipedia MoS convention? — BarrelProof ( talk) 06:32, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
I opened a further discussion of this issue at WT:MOS#Using "who/whose/her/him/hers/his" in the context of named individual animals. — BarrelProof ( talk) 18:33, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi all, just over from the cricket project. I was looking to expand this rather obscure Hampshire cricketer, only to find out he was a rather successful jockey, riding in 1,064 races and winning 332 of these. I wonder if anyone here can find some reliable sources for his horse racing career? Cheers, StickyWicket ( talk) 19:38, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Can anyone please add a race summary to 2022 Grand National ASAP so we can get it on the In The News? Lankyant ( talk) 00:17, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
I recently created an article for Sonny Leon, the jockey of Rich Strike, the winner of the 2022 Kentucky Derby. His notability has been questioned. I think he meets notability requirements with the derby win. Thriley ( talk) 03:20, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not much of a horse racing guy, but I saw Lester Piggott up at WP:ITN/C. Are the jerseys for all major events underneath the infobox really suitable? On mobile it takes up between 5 and 8 full screens before you can through the remainder of the article prose. This seems quite crufty to me. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Only one set of thumbnails should be shown unless user explicitly expands to show more. However the templates used do not seem to collapse correctly on mobile. I will investigate and try to get templates updated. JockeyColours ( talk)
Munnings 2006 ( Speightstown - La Comete, by Holy Bull) never won a G1 but did win 3 G2s including Woody Stephens Stakes, Tom Fool Handicap and the now Listed Gulfstream Park Sprint Championship Stakes. However, what's more impressive about Munnings has evolved as a sire. He now has sired five G1 winners including multiple G1 winner Jack Christopher who this Saturday also won the now G1 Woody Stephens Stakes. He's on my do list but if someone wants to start I'll help out. Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 17:45, 12 June 2022 (UTC) @ Brudder Andrusha: if you haven't gotten started on this, just FYI that WP:NHORSERACING clearly allows sires of significance (i.e. Tapit) to be deemed notable even if their own race record was modest. Montanabw (talk) 16:59, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
There appear to be almost 400 horse-related articles that link the word "turf" like this: [[grass|turf]]
. This odd way of linking made sense in the years before 2016, when
Turf was a disambiguation page and
Grass a broad-concept article. But that's not the case anymore: "Grass" is now a redirect to the plant family
Poaceae, which is clearly not the intended meaning here.
What should we do about these? Assuming there are no instances of "turf" simply referring to horse racing in general, we could either change the link to point to something more relevant ( Turf? Sports turf? an as-of-yet-nonexistent redirect to a relevant section of Horse racing?), or unlink it altogether (per MOS:OL).
Any thoughts or ideas? – Uanfala ( talk) 13:17, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
With all the frenzy about Flightline an unreferenced addition to his statistics to include his Beyer Speed Figure in his statistics. My problem with this inclusion, is that there is already a reference for his performance from Equibase in his statistics - not Daily Racing Form where the Beyers are published. Equibase provides a timeform rating which is included in the general "Results" not in each individual race result. These kind of inclusions open a can of worms. In particular, changing format of the Statistics table (which IMO should be standardized), updating other horse's statistics, etc. Thoughts from others? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 05:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Seems like it would be information to mention, on pages like that for St. Simon, that strong l DNA evidence now shows a divergence between the GSB pedigree and some actual genetic lineages.
The correction significantly changes the apparent contemporary influence of founding sire lines.
“According to pedigree information only few of the tested males trace back paternally to Byerley Turk… All 30 patrilineal descendants that coalesce in Herod, born in 1758, whose ancestry in turn traces back to Byerley Turk, carried the Tb-oB1 specific allele 208… We also confirmed Tb-oB1 in eleven horses tracing back to St. Simon, born in 1881. According to stud records, St. Simon was the son of Galopin, born in 1872, who was sired by Vedette, born in 1854. The line should trace back to Eclipse, born in 1764 (Fig. 3) according to stud books. All descendants of St. Simon carry Tb-oB1, undoubtedly the HT of Herod (Fig. 3), and not that of Eclipse (Tb-dW*). Thus, an incorrect paternity assignment must have occurred in this lineage. In a discussion recorded in the early to mid 19th century, one party claimed that instead of Vedette a moderate performer named Delight, born in 1863, a Byerley Turk descendant (Fig. 3b), fathered Galopin; our molecular data support this view.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42640-w#MOESM10 Greenineugene ( talk) 17:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
How do I ask for a restriction on editing a page? specifically Kent Desormeaux. I seem to be in an edit war with an anonymous user who can't understand that even Equibase can make mistakes, and insists on removing very well sourced info. Driving me crazy! See my page for details if you're interested. Jlvsclrk ( talk) 02:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I've just created an article about Cody's Wish. I'm sure there is more that can be elaborated upon in that article, so any help to expand would be appreciated. Thanks! JRHorse ( talk) 18:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Looking at Amounis#Race_record, I see abbreviations like "f" and "l". What do these mean? I'd like to expand them for clarity or link to a definition somewhere. Is "l" not the same as "lengths"? -- Beland ( talk) 21:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion at Talk:Thoroughbred#Infobox_Image which may be of interest to members of this project. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 18:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Most of the UK horse racing content originates from List_of_British_National_Hunt_races and it's flat (and Irish) equivalents. Recently I saw that all Premier Handicaps except ONE listed on this page had their own pages, so it seemed logical to fill that gap. I therefore created Byrne Group Handicap Chase. This page has now been rejected with reason: "not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG", and the page automatically redirects back to List_of_British_National_Hunt_races. As I have been involved in the creation of many of these race pages I am well aware of the format used and have replicated that. It is therefore certain that there are 100+ pages that have been accepted which differ in no significant way to this one that has been rejected.
Similarly when reading recently about Cheltenham Gold Cup winners of the eighties I became aware that there was no page for the Edward Hanmer Chase (at Haydock) which many used as an early season target on the way to the big race. Convinced of its notability, I therefore researched and created a page: Draft:Edward_Hanmer_Memorial_Chase but this was rejected on grounds of notability and lack of reliable sources. As the sources used were Timeform Annuals and the Racing Post website my personal feeling is that for the topic of British Horse Racing there is nothing more reliable!
I understand that the reviewers have a difficult job and are working hard to maintain the quality and standards of Wikipedia content, but there seems to be a disconnect here between their overall view and that of people working within a specific area who have a deeper knowledge of what is and what isn't both reliable and notable.
I would have no issue with a judgement that the vast majority of Premier Handicaps are not notable and so should not have their own pages. However if a decision has been taken (or simply evolved) to catalog the current state of UK Racing down to Group 3 (Premier Handicap) level then a full picture is surely better than a partial one.
Likewise if we have a format that has been used to successfully document hundreds of races can it not be agreed with reviewers that this is equally appropriate for any new pages that are created. I believe that we have an admirably consistent approach to the layout of these race pages, but over the years some have been flagged with Reviewer warnings (which have never been removed) and now it seems new pages will be rejected completely.
It is certainly counter productive if an Us against Them feeling might exist between contributors and reviewers, so is it possible that guidelines and formats specific to Horse Racing can be fed back to Review teams to ensure that we all have a common goal and pull together not against each other? ( JockeyColours ( talk) 13:08, 9 March 2023 (UTC))
Many pages of animals do not have either wikiprojects attached to them or even existant talk pages, on this linked post i listed in my sandbox (since otherwise it would clogged a lot) about 300 such pages, some of which are pertinent to this wikiproject, notably around 96 horses and 1 pony breed. There is probably also a few others pages (hippodromes, etc) that could be pertinent to this project.
Entry of the talk page : Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mammals#Are_individual_animals_page_in_the_WikiProjectMammals_?
Cheers ! Gimly24 ( talk) 21:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent
Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class=
parameter to {{
WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{
WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom
parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.
Aymatth2 (
talk) 14:41, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Loose horse is being discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 25#Loose horse. The discussion would greatly benefit from input from editors knowledgeable about horse racing and/or horses more generally. Thryduulf ( talk) 08:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
The inductees have been announced and a discussion has been started on whether the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame page should be updated now or when formally the induction occurs during the Saratoga meeting in August. @ JRHorse: has updated each individual articles with a reference indicating of the honor bestowed. My feeling is that this is not a WP:CRYSTAL issue. Since events in the future are well documented if there is adequate references and sourcing. Thoughts ? Brudder Andrusha ( talk) 11:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)