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Hey can someone who understands templates slightly better than I help out with making the line about the MLS Reserve Division optional in the infobox? MLS announced yesterday that the Reserve Division had been discontinued after 2008, but the line needs to remain in te box for several other season articles before the 2009 season, though it no longer needs to be in articles from 2009 on. Any takers? -- Grant . Alpaugh 20:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I have no problem with what you're proposing in principle, but only as long as key things like the distinction between the Supporters' Shield and MLS Cup are recognised. They might be different from most European leagues, but MLS is far from the only league with playoffs, and that has to be respected. -- Grant . Alpaugh 15:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to get an opinion on this template and the associated linked pages. Surely most of the pages for the groups are not necessary when most of the groups aren't particularly notable. Surely they'd be better off as subsections of the clubs' pages? Hack ( talk) 07:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
This user seems to be a die-hard fan of Slovak football, but is creating lots of stubs, which are uncategorized, players with no DOB etc... I've improved some articles like Ludovit Cvetler and give him a piece of advice User talk:PALIO10, but as he keeps editing [1], this would be hard for me to do all this work, and I'm a bit away these times...-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 12:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
...was appointed manager of Watford this morning. His article is still missing some basic details though, such as an accurate date of birth and more info about his playing career...any help would be appreciated! Giant Snowman 17:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Is the Albanian Superliga fully professional? I bring this up because I noticed some PRODs were removed on Albania-based footballers, and looking at those articles, it's impossible to tell whether the league is fully professional or semi-pro. -- Mosmof ( talk) 18:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I've just noticed that Roma people national football team, West Papua national football team, Rijeka national football team, Maasai national football team, and possibly some others, all of which were deleted via AfD, appear to have been re-created. Was there a DRV or anything that I missed, or should I just speedy them all under criterion G4......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin move James Waite to Jamie Waite over the redirect? It's his commonname looking at pretty much every source, and according to findmypast.com Jamie Waite is actually his birthname. Peanut4 ( talk) 23:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Dear WP FOOTY project (and its projectors ;)),
i bring to your attention a seriously disruptive editor. Once i warned about a "contributor" called PARARUBBAS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pararubbas), whom operated almost exclusively on PORTUGUESE FOOTBALL and/or FOOTBALLERS, and his modus operandi consisted of gluing sentences into one, removing brackets, links and references. Thank god i got some users to help him get blocked.
Now, i bring to you another user which i believe is the same, as PARARUBBAS is blocked and has not edited in 4 months. With the account name PEP10 (contributions here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pep10), the M.O. is the same: Almost exclusively PORT.FOOTBALL, refs, links all gone just because and, like PARARUBBAS he does not write one single edit summary and does not respond to messages, although (over)duly warned.
Sincerely yours, from PORTUGAL,
VASCO AMARAL - -- 217.129.67.28 ( talk) 19:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Was there ever an honours list on the article? Govvy ( talk) 19:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I've not been very involved with this WikiProject for some time, so I've forgotten your assessment criteria, but I was surprised to find this article is assessed for importance as "Low". (It's today Main Page article, btw) -- Dweller ( talk) 20:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
ATTENTION WP:ATHLETE is being re-written. There is a very big discussion here. The re-writing is focusing mainly on amateur athletes. You may well wish to participate.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 16:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
The page for Chris Morgan is getting almost hourly vandalism due to the publicity around the incicdent Iain Hume. I've been trying to keep it clear but is some form of article protection warranted until thigs die down? Thanks Bladeboy1889 ( talk) 09:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Where do foreign players in countries like Monaco and Liechtenstein need to be sorted? Are AS Monaco players expatriate footballers in France, because Monaco plays in the French league? Or are they expatriate footballers in Monaco, because Monaco is an independent principality? And what about Liechtensteiner clubs that play in the Swiss leagues? Aecis·(away) talk 03:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please move Martin Demichelis to Martín Demichelis. Thanks. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 03:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, IP users keep on adding three players - one of whom doesn't even have an article! - to the famous players section of this article, but won't say why they merit being on there when a list of past players already exists - please can an admin protect the page! Thanks, Giant Snowman 19:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I would like to try and get support for a taskforce on Youth Football. This would be a taskforce similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Taskforce on women's football to help with the articles involving Youth Football across the world. I belive this is a good idea as not enough attention on Wikipedia is focused on the editing of Youth Football articles and bringing them up to GA or FA status, or just getting them out of Stub-Class. This article would be a task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football.
To add your name to people supporting this click here. (I don't mind if you are not that active, just put your name down so I can start it and occasionally stop by to see how it's going. 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 17:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
NPOV is dead in Scotland? MaxSem( Han shot first!) 08:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I've just been bold and moved Template:Infobox Football official to Template:Infobox football official, as I was sure this was the correct capitalisation. But then I noticed the widely-used Template:Infobox Football biography uses the upper case 'F' so I'm not so sure now. I think consistency within Category:Football (soccer) infobox templates would be good either way, but I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. Sorry if this is quite trivial. Thanks. -- Jameboy ( talk) 13:53, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello, List of Sweden international footballers is up at WP:Featured list removal candidates to improve the article to meet current Featured List standards. Reviewers' concerns are here. Cheers, Dabomb87 ( talk) 02:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the league full-pro now? Govvy ( talk) 01:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
A potential problem could arise should Histon win promotion as they don't automatically become full time club yet would be in what is fundamentally a full time league. Skitzo ( talk) 22:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
In the past it's been generally agreed that So-and-so F.C. season 2008-09 articles should only be created for professional teams, but what about List of So-and-so F.C. seasons-type articles? We've got one of these for a non-professional club which has made it all the way to FL, but that club has played at a national level (Conference National) - would a meticulously sourced article of this type be acceptable for a team which has never climed higher than the Northern Premier or Isthmian League.........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 20:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Exxy keeps editing player infoboxes to show just starting appearances. Shouldn't the substitute appearances be included as well, and is there a policy on this? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 19:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
This isn't the correct title of this competition, surely.....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:10, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I've found quite often that bullshit full names have been added to footballers, like Stephen Carr (Stephen Babeson Carr) and Shaun Wright-Phillips (Shaun Lombe Cameron Wright-Phillips), that have been undetected and remain for even years. By looking in The PFA Premier & Football League Players' Records 1946-2005, I've found that these examples were incorrect, and has even led to independent websites copying Carr's incorrect name and so giving out wrong information. This leads me to thinking that surely we need to be stricter on the addition on full names and that, like all other aspects of adding information onto Wikipedia, references need to be added to confirm it. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Just to ask for some views on whether some players should be included in the first-team squad here. Ryan Mason, Jonathan Obika and Adam Smith were included in Tottenham's squad for their UEFA Cup game against N.E.C. Nijmegen, and so should they be included in the first-team squad? I would say so, as they have been included in a first-team game and so should be considered as being first-team players. Thanks, Mattythewhite ( talk) 12:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Have you had a look at Spurs.co.uk website? They clearly define those players as being reserves and academy. There is even Tottenham Hotspur F.C. Reserves and Academy for us to list them in. It's quite clear to me. Govvy ( talk) 12:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that Govvy considers that he "owns" the THFC article and that no-one else can edit it without his approval.
If a player has appeared in the first team in a competitive match, then he is a part of the squad that the manager has chosen to use and that applies whether the player only appears once or 40 times. It is accepted that a player is sufficiently notable to have a WP article even if he only makes a 10 second cameo appearance as a substitute in a cup match. Why should stricter criteria apply to be considered part of the first team squad? What number of appearances would make a player a member of the squad - 2, 4, 6, 8?
Ultimately it is not for Govvy, me or any other editor to decide who is a member of the sqaud. The decision rests with the club and its manager - IMHO, once a player is allocated a squad number, he is a member of the squad. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 18:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I see that James Reid has been added to the Nottingham Forest squad Template:Nottingham Forest F.C. squad, even though so far he has only made one appearance as a 90th minute substitute. Based on some of the views above, he should be deleted - but how many games must he play before he's allowed in? - Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 17:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
How many matches has Shota Arveladze played for the national team of Georgia? 61, with 26 goals, as we say in the lead of the article? 53, with 22 goals, as we say in the infobox? Or 45, with 15 goals, as listed on Soccerbase.com? Aecis·(away) talk 09:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
if a player based in a foreign country where the season has finished for the winter signs a pre-contract agreement to join an English club when the transfer window opens in January, when would you add him to the English club's squad? As this is not a hypothetical question, any advice would be gratefully received :-) cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 20:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Not necessarily. Sven-Goran Eriksson signed a pre-contract deal to manage Blackburn, but eventually cancelled the deal to manage Lazio instead. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 22:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
According to this site, Tom Søndergaard has died way back in 1997. Is that correct? Aecis·(away) talk 18:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need them? They seem like clutter and a repeat of information most of the time. Between clubs and bio pages there is the Honours section which already lists the honour with the date. You can view who was previous and post by looking through those dates. The succession boxes although makes it that tad quicker, is just a repeat of information when I see it... Thoughts? Govvy ( talk) 22:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
What are (or should be) the inclusion criteria for the "Foo-born footballers who played for other national teams"? The reason I'm asking this is Law Adam. I had included him in Category:Netherlands-born footballers who played for other national teams, because he was born in the Dutch East Indies, which at the time was a Dutch colony. Ario ManUtd ( talk · contribs) has removed Adam from the category because "the page I created means all of footballers who were born in present day-Netherlands (not included Netherlands Antilles, Aruba, etc)." Aecis·(away) talk 01:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I know that things like Bolton Wanderers F.C. season 2006-07 are standard (the concept, I mean: the actual article needs sources, an introduction, ...). However, to add to this a long, long page (when finished) like Bolton Wanderers F.C. season 2006-07 game log seems to me overkill. Do you have some guidance and/or guidelines on these? Fram ( talk) 15:14, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Look at the categories at the bottom of his article. Are they all needed? I know this has been brought up many times but there is never a clear answer. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to start an edit war with Hubschrauber729 ( talk · contribs) over Nuri Şahin, so I'm bringing the issue here. I had added Şahin to the categories Category:Turkish expatriate footballers and Category:Turkish expatriates in the Netherlands, because he has represented Turkey. Hubschrauber729 twice changed that to German, because Şahin was born and raised in Germany. What is the "rule" for the expatriate categories? Aecis·(away) talk 23:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Just discovered (in a clicking-around sense) this article, which had a notability check tagged upon it in September. I thought it might be of interest to some in the project. - Dudesleeper / Talk 01:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
06 January, 2005 Falkirk Herald" - that's the bibliographic data I have for their google news hit. I'm not sure of anything else in easily accessible press coverage. matt91486 ( talk) 01:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Safe Standing redirects there, which is backwards. There's been sufficient media attention to the topic in general to merit an article about the concept, e.g. [4], but the term should not redirect to a pressure group. Oldelpaso ( talk) 08:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I think this page needs some protection - the sacking speculation is going to send the article ballistic. Dancarney ( talk) 12:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I know photos, particularly older ones, can be difficult to get our hands on. I've just found this photostream on flickr, which seems to have the appropriate licensing for us to use. Most of it is of Craven Cottage and Fulham, but in case anyone might want to use some of them, I thought I'd add a quite note. Peanut4 ( talk) 18:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I've just come across this team, which just happens to be one that Luis Figo played for when he was a kid. From what I can tell, this is just a small futsal / street football club based in a Lisbon suburb, and would probably not be notable enough under the usual scheme of things. However, there does seem to be a bit of news coverage on this team, such as this article. The question is this - would this be enough to satisfy notability guidelines for a football team? Bettia (rawr!) 16:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Were we (as a project) given notice that Adam Boyd was undergoing a GA review, as the first I heard of it was when I saw "Adam Boyd no longer GA" in my watchlist. I wasn't watching the Boyd article, but I'd quite like to have known that we were in danger of losing a Good Article - too late now, though we could always bring it up to scratch and re-nominate it. In any case I think it would be worth a few of us checking the good article reassessment page from time to time so that we can do our best to maintain the status of our existing Good Articles (as well as getting new ones listed). -- Jameboy ( talk) 00:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello there, the article Henrik Larsson, which falls under the auspices of this Wikiproject, has come under review as part of GA Sweeps and a number of problems have been identified and listed on the talk page. If these problems have not begun to be addressed by seven days from this notice, the article will be delisted from GA and will have to go through the WP:GAN process all over again to regain its status once improvements have been made. If you have any questions, please drop me a line.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 23:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I just came across this article High Altitude Football Controversy, it is surely a subject worthy of an article, but it currently reads like its been writted by a journalism student. The high altitude ban is an issue that his implications outside Bolivia, the list of Bolivian home results seems unneccessary. I will attempt to clean it up a bit, any help appreciated, King of the North East 00:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
We've got two categories for expatriates from the former Yugoslavia: Category:Yugoslav expatriate footballers and Category:Yugoslavian expatriate footballers. Which is the right name? Aecis·(away) talk 12:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Can you explain why we would then have Category:Yugoslav expatriates and Category:Yugoslavian expatriate footballers? Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 07:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
(In response to the inquiry on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Yugoslavia) The proper adjective for a person from Yugoslavia is "Yugoslav". -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 14:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Searching through the article about Yugoslavia, I found multiple mentioning of "Yugoslav" (people etc.), but only two times were "Yugoslavian" used. lil2mas ( talk) 22:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
This article was restored from deletion by User:Phil Sandifer today, with the assertion that being in the Manchester United first team without actually having played a match is enough to satisfy WP:N and that the reasons for deletion given at the article's AfD are no longer valid. Can someone please talk some sense into him? – Pee Jay 23:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I see that Phil has recreated the article yet again, even though the DRV is still going (and indeed was closed as "endorse delete" at one stage. Can another admin please deal with this, as no doubt I will be accused of "wheel-warring" if I delete the article again. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 18:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
[5] -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Isn't this category just Scottish expatriate footballers in England? Govvy ( talk) 15:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I am finding them a little unreliable at the moment. For instance Didier Zokora & Jermaine Jenas stats on the site are wrong. Jenas didn't play against Liverpool in a game and Zokora was selected to take his place. Soccerbase failed to take light of this, nor did it respond to my email of their statistics being incorrect. It makes me feel that the website is unreliable. At the same time I think ESPNs soccernet.com is much more reliable. I don't understand why we don't use them enough for external linking or citation. Govvy ( talk) 22:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I do hope this is the right place... having a little trouble working out how to create a new kit design for Royal Marines A.F.C.. They have an unusual wide dark blue hoop, narrow yellow hoop, narrow green hoop, mid-sized red hoop and another wide dark blue hoop, on a white shirt ( click here for a picture). Could anyone either help me create it or point me in the direction so that I can do so myself? Stuartpgardner ( talk) 00:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I read this in the paper and found the article online, [7] I am assuming Eagles is effectively saying he is a Spurs fan by this quote. "I was a season ticket holder at White Hart Lane, the whole family were Spurs fans so it is a very special game for me," Just asking if you lot think the url is good enough to add to his article for citation saying he is a Spurs fan? Govvy ( talk) 20:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I've been removing club nicknames from articles that appear to be used only by fans of the club in question (Superhoops in Q.P.R.'s article, for example). I am in the right to be removing these, I take it, even though it can be argued that these nicknames are in common usage? - Dudesleeper / Talk 22:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The most notable nickname for Queens Park Rangers is QPR, and that should go in the infobox. The Rs and the Superhoops are notable nicknames and should be mentioned in the body copy. --
Dweller (
talk) 15:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)Not sure on this... will rethink. --
Dweller (
talk)
15:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Quick question, what constitutes a notable football match? Obviously Cup finals such as Chamions League, UEFA Cup, World Cup final, etc, have their own articles, but is there a notability guideline for non finals matches? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Some useful debate at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bayern Munich 1 - 2 Norwich City -- Dweller ( talk) 15:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Is he the son of Tony Spearing? The name's relatively unusual, and at 44, Tony seems about the right age... But any RS? -- Dweller ( talk) 11:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh. Shame. Thanks. I'll slink back off to cricket stuff now, cheers... -- Dweller ( talk) 12:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm aware there's been discussion about this issue, but it's been a long time since I was involved with WP:FOOTY and I suffer badly from WP:TLDR disease.
Is there an NPOV and brief summary of where consensus is now on this? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, that's what I thought, but I see the confusingly unclosed closed DRV at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_December_7#F.C3.A1bio_Pereira_da_Silva and the article exists baldly stating 0 pro appearances... I'm generally confused. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Done New AfD is listed at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fábio Pereira da Silva (2nd nomination). --
Dweller (
talk)
16:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
The latter has a size of around 65 kB and is more or less neatly packed into History of Valencia CF. Nevertheless, the content of this article also appears word for word on the Valencia CF article as well, although there is a link to the history article at the top of the section. This bloats Valencia CF to around 100 kB, which clearly violates WP:SIZE. I have already tried to remove the redundant content, but got reverted by User:Fadiga09 without comment. Another IP user who tried the same thing a few days ago was reverted by Fadiga09 as well, accompanied by an editing summary of "Shut up." I have used up my second reversal opportunity now, but I'm almost sure that it will being reverted as well. Can other project members help to ressolve the issue? A discussion has already been started at Talk:Valencia CF as well; participation in it would be gladly appreciated. --- Hockey-holic ( talk) 21:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
After reverting an editors addition of non-league games from the infobox, it got me thinking: Why do we only put the league stats in the infobox? What is the purpose of doing things like this? I can't seem to find any reason in the MoS or think of any reasons why this should be "the correct way". Any one have any thoughts on this? Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 04:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting a list of redlinked articles (on a user subpage, here) relating to the FA Cup which could do to be created. Just to be sure before I begin, though, I'm assuming that if a player has played in the FA Cup Final, or if a team has competed in the FA Cup proper (not automatically notable if they only played in the qualifying rounds), that they're notable? If not, is it down to being a pro-team, having played in the Football League at any stage, or what? El Pollo Diablo ( Talk) 10:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick note - Thornycrofts (Woolston) F.C. (who are listed as appearing in 1919-20) are now known as VT F.C. Bettia (rawr!) 14:15, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm planning on writing an article on another Gary Bennett, but I need his DOB to disambiguate the page (there are already two other footballers by the same name with articles). This one played for Colchester (1988-1994), Braintree, Chelmsford, AFC Sudbury and a few other East Anglian clubs. If anyone has details on his club career between 1994 and 2000, that would also be appreciated> Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 13:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not familiar with Asian football at all, but what in all world is this? Given that (according to the AFC Champions League article) there have been six season of AFC CL play so far, this table seems not quite right to me, to say the least. <irony>But perhaps it's another new competition with a similar name we have not heard of so far.</irony>
Seriously, everything points to a hoax or something similar. PROD? AfD? Hockey-holic ( talk) 01:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The teams appearing multiple times could be that there are a number of teams with the same name (eg.
Al Ahli,
Al-Ittihad for a start). Not having had a close look at this page it would seem they are including results from the Asian Champion Club Tournament and Asian Club Championships competitions which where forerunners of the current ACL. I'd suggest with a bit of work this page could be retained...
Nothing to see here...
Hack (
talk)
02:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
We've got an IP editor seeking to re-open the debate on this issue once again on the Midfielder page. Please feel free to add your thoughts on its talk page. Thanks. Beve ( talk) 08:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I came across this article. Not ever hearing this in English was just wondering if this term is widely used... Hack ( talk) 04:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
The only RS attestation for it currently is in Spanish. It could be a notable term in Spanish, but not in English. It could be notable in both. Or it could be notable in neither. It's hard to say. Best bet is to open an AfD and invite expert opinion from members of this WikiProject and at say a Latin American one and the Languages Ref Desk. -- Dweller ( talk) 11:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a bun-fight going on at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 39#Severe overuse problem over the inclusion of some College American Football logos in articles outside the teams core articles. In particular, the discussions are hovering around their additions to season, game, rivalry and league articles and how this is possibly/probably/definitely (depending on your outlook) an issue of decoration. I know we're pretty good now at keeping our logos only in the most relevant articles and having decent FURs for them, so if anyone feels qualified to chip into the argument - have fun. Nanonic ( talk) 17:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
This topic is in my opinion pretty interesting but still unsolved. What is the number of players that should be included in the list? Also there are some leagues (like Danish Superliga 2008-09) where all the scorers are listed although under the name Top goalscorers. Hockey-holic tried to remove scorers with only 3-4 goals or less in Serbian Superliga 2008-09 but this only led to a discussion. I don't want to do anything without asking others interested in this topic (like Kalaha that edits Danish article) and I would appreciate comments on this. SonjiCeli ( talk) 14:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
We are a new taskforce, looking to categorise and improve articles about variations of football, like Futsal or Beach Soccer.
We need members, and it would really help if you joined us - 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 15:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Uhm, I'm against all expatriate categories but this one doesn't even make any sense. Expatriate refers to a nation not a region. Any thoughts? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 22:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
How did this category renaming slip through without coming to the attention of WP:FOOTBALL? Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 18:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
In the "career statistics" tables on several Arsenal player articles, e.g. Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie, Cesc Fàbregas there are columns for " assists" which are referenced to Soccernet. I can't see similar information for players from other clubs, e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo, Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard. In my opinion, this information is not particularly relevant nor meaningful and I'd like to get rid of them but I'm probably on my own here. What do other users think? incidentally, how reliable are the soccernet pages? -- Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 07:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm struggling a little with this...
Supporters clubs can be notable, but I think it's clear most of the ones nominated here are not.
I'm struggling though with Capital Canaries. See my comments at the AfD. While the existing article definitely fails WP:V, I think that it can be verified as notable, as I've explained at the AfD, but I'd appreciate some expert opinions from others on this. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
A new taskforce, like the WikiProject Scottish Football was, except with more members. Anyone intrested? 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 16:34, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
An editor has created articles on all the clubs in the Galway & District League down to its fifth level. This is effectively the fifth to ninth level in the Republic of Ireland.
Does anyone have opinions on where the rough cut-off for Irish club notability should be? пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 10:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
On reflection, he's **already** a wonderful asset, just slightly misdirected on this score. I'd get rid of the speedy tags and notifications for now and begin by engaging him in dialogue. There's no deadline, and it doesn't matter if we don't blast his work out of the sky in an instant. Best result would be if he could be persuaded to db-author any/all inappropriate articles because he's understood our policies. -- Dweller ( talk) 12:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
There is currently an on-going discussion if the A championship and its teams should also be included to the FAI League of Ireland 2009 season article. The controversy is about whether a) the A Championship is the third tier of the LOI and b) the three non-reserve teams are members of the LOI. Can somebody more familiar with Irish football help to resolve the issue? -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 14:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm currently working on improvements to Bradford City stadium fire. In the mean time, User:Coolgamer keeps adding a direct link to footage on wikileaks. I've reverted it a couple of times, and has also been previously removed by User:Thumperward and IP addresses. I've previously asked him to take it to the talk page, since at least three users reverted it, but to no avail. His last edit claims he thinks it's notable. I disagree since it has received no third party coverage, and the footage is in breach of copyright from Yorkshire Television, and so for the same reason YouTube videos cannot be used as sources, I've removed it. Does anyone else have any opinions on whether to include it or not? Peanut4 ( talk) 19:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Again one of these categories, this time it is an English one! nether-the-less. An expatriate is someone who has removed from citizenship of so called country. I just had a look at the category and most of the peeps in there are living in England and currently have citizenship. Being an English expatriate footballer, well something is clearly wrong here. I think there needs to be a real series address on this subject. Frankly I want this category removed because it is just ridiculous. Govvy ( talk) 19:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Could an admin restore Barry Bannan? He made his debut for Aston Villa today as a substitute. matt91486 ( talk) 21:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I tagged Cole Arns for speedy deletion as blatant hoax, and notified the creator. The page has similar content to this Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andy Matthews, created by the same editor. The speedy tag has been removed by an anon. Don't know what the procedure is now... help... cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 17:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing this is a hoax? Can anyone else confirm? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 07:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi all, I've discovered yesterday that the article about NEC Nijmegen uses dots in its title, so it is N.E.C. Nijmegen; since all other Dutch football teams do not use dots (see PSV Eindhoven, AZ (football club) and NAC Breda, just to cite some), I would like to ask you for more thoughts and clarifications about this choice. Personally I think dots should not be used in this case, the club name is never mentioned with dots in local media, and even the club crest does not use dots. I started a discussion at Talk:N.E.C. Nijmegen. Thank you. -- Angelo ( talk) 14:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article has been PROD'ed as the player has never played in the Football League, however the article includes at least three sources which are reliable and solely about the subject in question. Without wishing to re-open a big ol' can of worms or get all waxy, if that Man U kid passed muster due to the existence of sources, doesn't this guy too? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
"Geohaghon's goal at Rockingham Road in the First round proper of the 2008–09 FA Cup as Kettering Town held Football League Two club Lincoln City to a 1-1 draw on 8 November 2008" isn't that enough to pass our notability criteria? (Even if he hadn't scored) -- Dweller ( talk) 10:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
So, taking this to an extreme, if Hereford had not managed to get promoted, late in his career, would Ronnie Radford not be notable? I'd argue he's notable because of one goal in one match he played. If he'd broken his leg the next minute and never played again, he'd be notable. -- Dweller ( talk) 11:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Coming back to the original question, I note that most of the sources for the Exodus Geohaghon article are from local newspapers (8/12) with the rest either from his club or from sites dealing with non-league football (and one to the ITV coverage of the FA Cup). If such sources are sufficient to meet the requirements of WP:N, then any non-league player will get through, providing the article is fully referenced. Likewise any youth player for a professional club would get in. For example, I could find enough references in either the local press or the Southampton website to write an article about their third choice goalkeeper, Tommy Forecast, although he's never got further than the bench. Likewise, I could find enough sources to create an article about Luke Byles, who plays for Eastleigh - he's regularly mentioned in the local press. Neither of these players meet the standards of WP:ATHLETE, however. It seems to me that by allowing WP:N to over-ride WP:ATHLETE, the bar has been lowered to such a point that anyone will qualify for an article, providing sufficient sources can be found. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 13:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't see anywhere in WP:N, anything that either rules out local newspapers or non-league newspapers from independent sources. In my opinion, Exodus Geoghegan passes WP:N but clearly not WP:ATHLETE. Peanut4 ( talk) 19:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Some wise IP user has removed the PROD notice with no summary explanation at all. I am opening an AFD. -- Angelo ( talk) 13:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
We deleted Category:Scottish footballers who have played in England Should we not also delete Category:English footballers who have played in Scotland ? Govvy ( talk) 21:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I found bored to move the Fb round2 templates as the UEFA Champions League and Europa League rounds are renamed. Please help for rename those template please. You can feel free to rename by refering here, thanks. Raymond "Giggs" K o 05:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Could somebody check the recent edits made by anons to Celtic F.C.? I have no idea whether their edits are correct or not. Little Red Riding Hood talk 19:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Thoughts? Govvy ( talk) 00:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please delete Template:Fb team SSV Ulm? The template is a hardcopy of Template:Fb team Ulm and thus had been speedied since December 7, but did not appear on Category:Templates for speedy deletion for some reason. -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 16:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
How many staff members should be included in a club article? Nottingham Forest F.C.#Club officials lists the Chairman, the Chief Executive, the Finance Director, the Associate Directors, the Manager, the First Team Coaches, the Goalkeeping Coach, the Academy Director, the Sports Scientist, the Physiotherapists, the Chief Scout, the Medical Consultant, the Football Administrator, the Stadium Manager, the Head Groundsman, the Safety Officer, the Operations Manager, the Commercial Manager, the Ticket Office Manager, the Shop Manager, the Press Officer, the Programme Editor, the Website Manager, the P.R. Executive, the Community Directors and the Club Chaplain. Way too much, imo. Aecis·(away) talk 13:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Is there really any point in this? Mattythewhite ( talk) 18:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Call me reactionary but the heights in these boxes seem to be changed/vandalised/contested with far too much frequency. Is there any reason why they should even be there? Height is largely an unimportant factor for a footballer (with the exception of goalkeepers). Strikers, midfielders and defenders come in all shapes and sizes (as the human race does). Is there any specific reason why height is more important to mention in the infobox of Pelé than it is, of say, Barack Obama? I suggest removal of the height field on the basis that provides little value to the articles. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 18:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please take a look at the edit history of the Toronto Lynx page, and protect it? There is a persistent vandal who continually adds the names "Rony Talow" and "Lil' Rosny" to the roster, using multiple sockpuppets and different IP addresses. It's so tiresome having to keep reverting it. Thanks. -- JonBroxton ( talk) 05:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
On the bit =publisher do you think it's best to put the website url? Or the full club name? Govvy ( talk) 21:14, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Mayumashu has been creating and populating a load more Xian footballers in Y categories despite being aware of the consensus to delete them. Please can we do something to uphold this consensus before we end up with 20,000 categories like Category:Algerian expatriate footballers in England and the completely empty Category:Argentine expatriate footballers in Italy. They can easily be generated like this. King of the North East 21:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
On César Sánchez Spurs second goalkeeper Mayumashu just removed two categories saying redundant cat page links cut I am not quite sure, but it sounds wrong to me, I think they should be put back. Can someone confirm that for me. Govvy ( talk) 10:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
What is the nationality of Bajram Sadrijaj? His article says Albanian, but the article Borussia Dortmund says Serbian. I've found both on the internet. l'Equipe and France Football say Albania, Fox Sports says Serbia. Aecis·(away) talk 22:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Any reasons why the kits are not in the infobox, but just below it? Giant Snowman 22:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Note that another user has taken them back out of the infobox and put the "floating images" back in, for no obvious reason..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 10:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Can sanyone else help out with the article? User:Salalah4life keeps removing the kits from the infobox and putting in excessively detailed depictions as floating stand-alone images (not using the fb kit template) further down the article...... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
..........that if an individual's only involvement at a fully professional level was one match as caretaker manager, there isn't really any grounds for him to have a WP article? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I just scanned in two programme covers with Bill Nicholson on, but I am now not sure if I can use them on wikicommon or pedia. The copyright is owned by Tottenham Hotspur, they are from 1986 and 1983. :/ Govvy ( talk) 17:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
No matter what you celebrate, or who you support, this is for you.
Merry Yuletides to you! (And a happy new year!)
Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 19:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
An anon editor insists on removing this image from Simon Grayson, saying it's too low in quality. What do people think? I personally think it will suffice. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Football ground currently redirects to Association football pitch, but I understand the term to mean the whole stadium, not just the pitch, albeit that this is probably colloquial and technically inaccurate. I'd be interested to hear what other people think about this. My own point of view means that I am unable to objectively determine what the primary meaning of "football ground" should be. Not sure if it should be a disambiguation page, if the redirect should be altered or if it should stay as it is. Thanks. -- Jameboy ( talk) 22:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I'd say that Football ground is the stadium as a whole but you could leave a disambiguation link at the top of the article. Skitzo ( talk) 23:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
With the upcoming transfer window, which leagues should be included in the lists of winter transfers?
The German list includes all three professional leagues, whereas
the English list features only the two highest leagues and
the Dutch list includes only the top professional league (
Eredivisie).
And which system should we use? Most lists are sorted by club, but
Italy,
Croatia and
Spain are sorted by date.
Belgium has a double intersection, listing the transfers both by date and by club.
Aecis·(away)
talk
23:42, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I have just PRODded Positions by round in Süper Lig 2008-09 and merged the content into Süper Lig 2008–09. Any PbR tables, if needed at all, should go directly to the respective season article, shouldn't they? -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 17:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Two things:
Would anyone happen to have access to a copy of Red and Raw: A Post-War History of Manchester United v Liverpool? I'm looking to expand Liverpool F.C. and Manchester United F.C. rivalry, and a printed source might be quite helpful. – Pee Jay 22:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know the which leauges in Turkey are fully professional? We all know the Süper Lig is fully pro, but I am not sure if the TFF First League is fully pro as well. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:04, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a bit of a discussion over at Talk:Intercontinental Cup and FIFA Club World Cup statistics about whether or not the Intercontinental Cup and the FIFA Club World Cup should be treated as one competition by combining their stats. User:Gethomas3 seems to believe that the two competitions are effectively the same thing, despite the fact that FIFA only records the history of the Club World Cup from 2000 onwards. The user also believes that statistics for the European Cup and the UEFA Champions League should be separated, despite the fact that UEFA records the history of the two competitions together all the way back to 1955. Anyway, the discussion is available for you all to see at Talk:Intercontinental Cup and FIFA Club World Cup statistics#Suggested split. Happy commenting! – Pee Jay 18:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The Atlético Madrid article was moved to Atlético de Madrid on 2 December 2008, as a result of an RM request on the article's talk page. There was one support !vote, which was given with no rationale and given by someone who clearly doesn't spend much time editing football-related articles. The RM was not listed for anyone to see, other than people who might have been browsing WP:RM from 27 November to 2 December, which gave most of us bugger all chance of seeing it. I have now reverted the move with the suggestion that, should anyone wish to request the page to be moved again, they list it here at WP:FOOTY. – Pee Jay 11:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
If there's an agenda here to make the article more hispanic, the edits I just made to the opening of the Lead (what the club's usually called in English) are likely to be reverted. Lookout please? They could do with some referencing, if anyone's feeling up to it? -- Dweller ( talk) 12:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
<-I'm not aware that Austria Wien is known in English popularly as anything else, but I do suggest we move SK Rapid Wien to Rapid Vienna per COMMONNAME. -- Dweller ( talk) 13:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a page move version of WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Because other pages are currently badly named, doesn't mean AM's should be too. It's just that we've not got round to fixing the others yet, possibly because there's more important things to do, like writing decent articles. WP:COMMONNAME is very clear - AM should be named without any "de" in it. -- Dweller ( talk) 14:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
It's unfortunate that you cite the policy and inadvertently miss out the bit that disproves your point.
I'll paste below what it says in full, with some adapted use of bold from the original to make it clear:
Tests for "no ambiguity": the club's official web site has an English-language section; and that name has been adopted at least by a significant section of the English-language media; and it is recognizable; and it is not easily confused with other clubs' names.
Can we stop now? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC) (NB even the club themselves on their official site use the common English variant: see opening lines to this page about their centenary -- Dweller ( talk) 15:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Tests for "ambiguity": the club's official web site does not have an English-language section; or it is not broadly recognizable; or it is easily confused with other clubs' names.
then? It has a website, it would be easily recognized with, and you can't confuse it with other clubs. This is not changing the spelling of the town from local to english, its just adding the correct grammar. And ignore all the "de" on their english page just because they don't have it on all plages, as you can see, full name used officially in the table in the fixtures they use Atletico de Madrid in the text and so on. And if you read the HEADLINE on the link you posted you'll see Atletico de Madrid — chan dler — 15:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
<ahem> You're supposed to be arguing it's "not ambiguous", not "ambiguous". if it's ambiguous, we definitely will go with AM. If you want to argue my side of the point, you're welcome. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
English language RS call the club AM. With no "de". Are we on WP:LAME yet? I'd really rather be spending my time writing an encyclopedia than arguing this point. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I live about 10 minutes from the stadium and am a fan of the team. In Spanish, the team's name is Atlético de Madrid. JonCatalán (Talk) 02:17, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I see FK Austria Wien were brought up here. They're usually referred to as Austria Vienna in the English press. Isn't it time we went through the European leagues one-by-one and came up with a proper set of consistent standards for which form to use? Right now it appears that there's little consistency even between teams in the same league. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Just noticed that a user called Mikemor92 have moved the articles of Fredrik Ljungberg and Daniel Alves to nickname titles, Freddie Ljungberg and Dani Alves, I tried to look for some discussion about it but couldnt find any. And I really don't see a reason for the moves and think they should be reverted. Any thoughts? — chan dler — 18:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) Which article should not be moved to the nickname? Articles should be placed at the most appropriate place per WP:COMMONNAME just as ChrisTheDude suggests, e.g. Teddy Sheringham, Bobby Charlton, Alex Ferguson, Tony Cascarino, etc. Just as those players who are known by their middle names e.g. Lee Mills not Rowan Mills, etc. Peanut4 ( talk) 23:44, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
What a gigantic pain for something which shouldn't require two minutes' worth of discussion. Talk:Fredrik Ljungberg#Requested move. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:42, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
Since this has turned into a slow edit war on Seattle Sounders FC in regards to the flag to put next to Sigi Schmid's name in the team's infobox I figured I'd bring this up to the football community at large... According to MOS:ICON, when a flag is used it should be the flag for the national squad that they are associated with. So, in Sigi Schmid's case, he was born in Germany, immigrated to the US at an early age, hasn't played for any national squad, but he has been the coach for the US U-20 national team. Would the flag associated with Sigi be the US or German flag? -- Bobblehead (rants) 00:20, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I just got home to find I left my PC on... again! But anyway, Happy new year from London to all. Govvy ( talk) 01:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
User:NapHit has been editing this page for most of the day. I have asked him why he has removed functionality from the article, to which he replied he was "cleaning up" as it was "messy". I have told him I disagreed with his edits and suggested he open a discussion about them, however, he has chosen not to do so. I'd appreciate it if someone could have a look at what he's doing and render their opinion about it. Madcynic ( talk) 16:58, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
This BBC article confirms that the Zanzibar national football team is playing in the Cecafa Cup - does this mean that they are now an official national team, become affiliated to either CAF or FIFA? Giant Snowman 17:54, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
It seems that there are issues between Football Association of Tanzania and the Zanzibar Football Association as shown by this article from 2002... Hack ( talk) 02:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Is there an issue with the clickable sort buttons in tables? It could be browser-related (I only have Mozilla at present), but I can't sort columns at all. See list of one-club men for an example. - Dudesleeper / Talk 21:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that User:Jonathan Winsky has gone through a massive number of non-league club articles and has made the club's home ground in the infobox a link to the ground's coordinates. I'm not sure that this is particularly helpful, but thought I ought to put it up for discussion before doing anything about it. Dancarney ( talk) 10:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
When every sprog with access to a PC thinks he is a budding journalist and has to be the first to break the news that player X has moved from XYZ F.C. to ABC F.C. Wayne Bridge is a classic example. I'll just go away for a few days and tidy up the crap when the deal is done. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 17:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've noticed several unsettling naming conventions. surely stating (for example) 'Liverpool', 'Leeds' or 'Milan' when discussing a football club in the opening sections of an article or a table is incorrect. I can see how this would be no problem mid-article once the identities of the clubs are clearly established, but when an article starts (for example) 'the 2005 champions league final was contested between Liverpool and Milan', using simply the name of the town/city, surely this is not right? Liverpool the city was not playing Milan the city, and as many Evertonians will no doubtedly attest, Liverpool F.C is not the only club in Liverpool! I've even seen 'Manchester' as 08 Premier League winners, the implications of which - ie City winning anything - I personally take offence to!
if this has been discussed before, it should be again and sorted, becuase the way many articles read is simply not correct. Jw2035 ( talk) 21:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
(ec)When talking about football in a football article, there is only one Liverpool and one Milan (No Internazionale is never refered to as Milan) and can't cause confusion. When it comes to cities with two or multiple clubs with the city/same name playing at reasonable high/same level, Manchester, Sheffield, Madrid for name a few, it's ofc important to use the full name, or the common way to distingue them (I heard that American commentators for example called Man Utd "Manchester" during thte Club World Cup). — chan dler — 21:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
think it's ok in match commentary - liverpool arn't called liverpool fc throughout, and man united are often simply called 'united' by match commentators. but this is only alright since it has been established that the 'manchester' means 'that team in red which is playing' and not 'that city in the north west' or 'that club which play in sky blue'. this is the same in articles - once the distinction has been made (for example in the intro) it should be ok to simply refer to 'united', 'liverpool', 'sheffield', but the distiniction should always be clear. i think even though inter milan are as internatzionale throughout wikipedia, simply putting 'milan' for ac is still confusing to a novice reader? Jw2035 ( talk) 22:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
This little guy is the subject of rather a large bit of misinformation today. The BBC, UEFA and, I'm sure, numerous others claim that he transferred to Manchester United today, only to be immediately loaned back to Partizan. On the face of it, that would seem to be the case, and editors could be forgiven for editing Adem Ljajić's article in order to reflect that circumstance. However, Manchester United themselves claim that they have "an agreement" with Partizan that Ljajić should remain with them for the remainder of the calendar year of 2009. Again, seems feasible. But what both sets of sources has failed to mention is the FIFA regulation that non-EU players under the age of 18 cannot be transferred to clubs within the EU. Since Adem Ljajić does not turn 18 until September 2009 (after the 2009 summer transfer window has closed), he cannot join Manchester United until January 2010. Bearing that in mind, can someone PLEASE help me keep Adem Ljajić's article in check? Failing that, let's just have a big discussion. – Pee Jay 23:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
2008– Partizan
is the best choice. Because 2008–2010 Partizan 2010– Manchester United
might at first glance look like he's ended his Partizan spell, while 2008– Partizan 2010– Manchester United
might look a bit weird. —
chan
dler —
00:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
It is correct in its current form of 2008–2009 Partizan 2009– Manchester United 2009– Partizan (loan)
for the simple reason that simply because he is not registered with the FA does not mean he isn't a Manchester United player. Other teams cannot sign him without the permission of Manchester United and paying the appropriate compensation to Manchester United. Ljajic is on loan to Partizan untill 01/2010. This is the same for players who do not qualify for a work permit and are loaned to other EU clubs. Use some common sence people, he's a Manchester United player who is on loan to Partizan untill Jan 2010.
Ck786 (
talk)
14:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Basically, I want to use YourThurrock as a source in a couple of articles. The website is kind of bloglike and the main page changes, and stories are not archived. How do I source the page as it is now, before it changes and the citations I need are gone? Cheers, -- Jimbo [online] 06:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
This user has been reverting sourced information from most of the Champions League final articles including two which are up for GA nomination. He claims he is doing this because the information is not required and does not fit in with the 2007 article which is a featured article and he claims is a template. PeeJay has also encountered the same problem with this user, I would like to know what the community thinks, and what course of action you recommend, as his actions are jeopardising two GA nominations, one of which is on hold. NapHit ( talk) 14:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
now this is a personal attack. doesn't the accused get a say?
the GA nominations in question have failed. they have failed for several reasons, notably the use of pov statements, colloquialisms, rambling 'reactions', 'build-up', 'aftermath', 'route to the final', 'what arsene wenger says', etc... sections, trivia only vaguely connected to the finals and sometimes rambling into topics that have nothing to do with the article in question (which towns are twinned with the finalists for example) and selective POV quotations.
the two above users have made no effort to discuss any changes along these lines (even though I've provided full justification for every edit), instead resorting to accusing me of vandalism, sock puppetry and ruining 'their page' or 'their work' - including a statement from NapHit that he had written (solely) the 2007 final featured article.
if anyone has any opinions on what the format of a champions league final article should look like and contain, please post here. otherwise UEFA Champions League Final 2007, a featured article, is the template to wich I have made any structural edits. i've justified every edit i've made; please feel free to post on my or the article tal page if you disagree with any of them, and i'll be happy to discuss it. Jw2035 ( talk) 18:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
i see no way of reaching consensus with the above editors by discussion. they seem unprepared to debate any changes to their pet articles. either formal mediation or back down and let the edits stand Jw2035 ( talk) 20:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm just want to check if there is a consensus for if for example Kosovo is suppose to be included on current maps. And small other things. I ask because yesterday I updated File:European Football Championship appearances.png (plus Hosts, Winners, Best results) per request to include the UEFA countries missing. Now on those I left out Kosovo (and Monaco, Vatican City and some other non-UEFA dependencies). But should Kosovo be represented as a non-UEFA, or non-existing (as if Serbia covers the whole area) until the Kosovo FA have been accepted into FIFA and UEFA? Or are there guidelines on what to do with maps when there are territorial disputes? And should perhaps non-FIFA FA's in internationally recognized countries be included as non-UEFA countries on the map? — chan dler — 23:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fábio Pereira da Silva (2nd nomination).
Can I now move to mainspace User:Dweller/Tom Adeyemi and User:Dweller/Luke Daley? I think not. But I have cited non trivial mentions of these players from RS in their articles (especially Daley, whose article is more "worked up"). So what makes da Silva special? It can't be that he has a notable brother - notability is not inherited. So, is this result saying that players are not notable until they play, unless they're signed by Manchester United? Either that's the case, or Adeyemi and Daley are notable too. -- Dweller ( talk) 10:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The sad fact is that it should have never been at AfD, as the article was illegitimately re-created by Phil following two DRVs which were both closed as endorse deletion. No consensus to delete should have been a no consensus to restore. Perhaps the improper procedure is worth looking into. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 14:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Football experts surely know better than average users what makes a footballer notable, aren't they? Don't try to minimize the efforts produced by this WikiProject, which is casually one of the biggest in the whole Wikipedia, and also respect their users. Footballers should be deemed notable because of their footballing efforts at first, likewise musicians, politicians and writers. It makes no sense to deem a footballer as being notable because he barely makes the news, with sources regarding him hardly covering the subject in deep and significant detail, and most of sources existing just because of the team he is contracted with (not the team he plays for, because he has never actually played for Man Utd's first team). Would he be notable if he was contracted with Wigan Athletic instead than Manchester United? I think no. And I think he is not notable in any case. As said earlier, we're between two pushes, the one being more inclusionist (especially supported by major team fans who also happened to create articles about team physios, I know this by personal experience), the other being more deletionist (supported by users who cannot accept having articles for each professionally contracted footballer). A single AFD case does not change the widely-confirmed consensus for having only players who actually managed to play a competitive game. -- Angelo ( talk) 15:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
This really isn't worth staging a drama over. The guy will probably come on as a 92nd minute sub on boxing day and hey presto, he meets wp:athlete and everyone's happy. (The idea that playing a couple of minutes of professional football can flip a person's status from Non-Notable to Notable! is of course absurd, but that is the dogma being advanced by a number of people here.) And this is largely irrelevant, since the references already listed in Fabio's article clearly establish notability, but can I propose a thought experiment here (and for similar cases). Can anyone think of any circumstances under which this guy would not meet wp:athlete at some point in the future? It's possible that he will never play a first team game for Manchester Utd or for any other club. Given the amount of press coverage he's already got, however, I'd think anything that could prevent him from achieving wp:athlete-sanctioned notability would be so catastrophic as to warrant a good deal more coverage. Phil is a voice of reason here, and I'd recommend those disagreeing with him to think carefully about his arguments before trying to shoot him down in flames as an impostor. Flowerparty☀ 16:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
This subsection is not for discussing the AfD, or how the article got there, but what, if anything, the result means moving forward and what, if anything, the WikiProject should do in response
<ec with Flowerparty>Best solution would be for Fergie to pick the bloke on Saturday, which would end the debate. If he broke his leg in eight places tomorrow and quietly disappeared, never having played for United or any other club in a notable match, we're left with an awkward situation here.
Some questions:
I'd suggest that there are special circumstances for option 3. We've all wasted enough time on this already. This chap is one of a pair of twins, signed simultaneously. That's kind of curious and enough to spark a little more media interest. Yes, his brother is the better player and he probably enjoyed an uplift because of that, as well as the inherited notability from MUFC. But there's enough unusual stuff here for it not to need to be seen as a precedent. -- Dweller ( talk) 16:37, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest the following:
But I think the precedent here is that there are exceptional cases that resist automatic notability guidelines. The precedent is not that the general guideline is wrong - it's that ignoring the specifics (MUFC, the existence of the twin brother, the international work) is a mistake. The general guideline gives you a quick answer. But it does not finish the discussion. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 16:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I voted delete in the AfD, but I think this article was unusually well-sourced and far superior to any of the typical "permastub" articles created for players that fail WP:ATHLETE. This project gets accused of allowing too many "permastub" articles under WP:ATHLETE, but this is unlikely to be one of those. We should continue to try to purge the many new articles that fail WP:ATHLETE and contain only a sentence (and maybe an skeletal infobox). I don't view this AfD as having any precedential value in keeping those "permastubs" except when they are extremely well-sourced and deal with a player that has a very high profile. The unfortunate thing is WP:N is much more subjective than WP:ATHLETE, and discussions about which sources (and how many) satisfy WP:N are typically long and painful (like this one) - we should not give up on WP:ATHLETE. Best regards. Jogurney ( talk) 19:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
What does this AfD change? Not a lot, AfD is not case law. All parties probably agree that the player is on the fringes of notability, even if they disagree as to quite where that line lies. Playing in a youth international alone does not guarantee notability; examples abound of such players that never made it into the pro ranks. Being on the books at Manchester United does not guarantee notability; even some of the "Class of 92" disappeared into obscurity. I maintain that even stepping across the whitewash doesn't guarantee it, the coverage resulting from, say, a single injury time sub appearance rarely meets the description of sources that "address the subject directly in detail". But a variety of the above can sometimes result in an AfD keep. One line permastubs will continue to be given short shrift, debates will continue over longer articles, some of which will be kept. In the meantime, lets hope Fabio Pereira da Silva doesn't rupture his knee ligaments in training. Oldelpaso ( talk) 22:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes but you closed it as a keep, if there was an even split surely it should of been an no consensus closure, which would have avoided this discussion, added to the fact the article was re-created by an admin despite it failing 2 deletion reviews ...
as for the point about WP:ATHLETE and WP:MUSIC, we are talking about footballers in this project, so WP:MUSIC is irrelevant to the discussion Skitzo ( talk) 10:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
A musician or ensemble is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to change WP:ATHLETE to read:
A sportsperson is notable if he/she meets any one of the following criteria:
or something like that....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 10:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Judge each case on its merits and don't always be so desperate to delete stuff? Beve ( talk) 00:14, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | → | Archive 30 |
Hey can someone who understands templates slightly better than I help out with making the line about the MLS Reserve Division optional in the infobox? MLS announced yesterday that the Reserve Division had been discontinued after 2008, but the line needs to remain in te box for several other season articles before the 2009 season, though it no longer needs to be in articles from 2009 on. Any takers? -- Grant . Alpaugh 20:00, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
I have no problem with what you're proposing in principle, but only as long as key things like the distinction between the Supporters' Shield and MLS Cup are recognised. They might be different from most European leagues, but MLS is far from the only league with playoffs, and that has to be respected. -- Grant . Alpaugh 15:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to get an opinion on this template and the associated linked pages. Surely most of the pages for the groups are not necessary when most of the groups aren't particularly notable. Surely they'd be better off as subsections of the clubs' pages? Hack ( talk) 07:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
This user seems to be a die-hard fan of Slovak football, but is creating lots of stubs, which are uncategorized, players with no DOB etc... I've improved some articles like Ludovit Cvetler and give him a piece of advice User talk:PALIO10, but as he keeps editing [1], this would be hard for me to do all this work, and I'm a bit away these times...-- Latouffedisco ( talk) 12:33, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
...was appointed manager of Watford this morning. His article is still missing some basic details though, such as an accurate date of birth and more info about his playing career...any help would be appreciated! Giant Snowman 17:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Is the Albanian Superliga fully professional? I bring this up because I noticed some PRODs were removed on Albania-based footballers, and looking at those articles, it's impossible to tell whether the league is fully professional or semi-pro. -- Mosmof ( talk) 18:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I've just noticed that Roma people national football team, West Papua national football team, Rijeka national football team, Maasai national football team, and possibly some others, all of which were deleted via AfD, appear to have been re-created. Was there a DRV or anything that I missed, or should I just speedy them all under criterion G4......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:36, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin move James Waite to Jamie Waite over the redirect? It's his commonname looking at pretty much every source, and according to findmypast.com Jamie Waite is actually his birthname. Peanut4 ( talk) 23:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Dear WP FOOTY project (and its projectors ;)),
i bring to your attention a seriously disruptive editor. Once i warned about a "contributor" called PARARUBBAS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pararubbas), whom operated almost exclusively on PORTUGUESE FOOTBALL and/or FOOTBALLERS, and his modus operandi consisted of gluing sentences into one, removing brackets, links and references. Thank god i got some users to help him get blocked.
Now, i bring to you another user which i believe is the same, as PARARUBBAS is blocked and has not edited in 4 months. With the account name PEP10 (contributions here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pep10), the M.O. is the same: Almost exclusively PORT.FOOTBALL, refs, links all gone just because and, like PARARUBBAS he does not write one single edit summary and does not respond to messages, although (over)duly warned.
Sincerely yours, from PORTUGAL,
VASCO AMARAL - -- 217.129.67.28 ( talk) 19:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Was there ever an honours list on the article? Govvy ( talk) 19:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I've not been very involved with this WikiProject for some time, so I've forgotten your assessment criteria, but I was surprised to find this article is assessed for importance as "Low". (It's today Main Page article, btw) -- Dweller ( talk) 20:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
ATTENTION WP:ATHLETE is being re-written. There is a very big discussion here. The re-writing is focusing mainly on amateur athletes. You may well wish to participate.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 16:53, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
The page for Chris Morgan is getting almost hourly vandalism due to the publicity around the incicdent Iain Hume. I've been trying to keep it clear but is some form of article protection warranted until thigs die down? Thanks Bladeboy1889 ( talk) 09:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Where do foreign players in countries like Monaco and Liechtenstein need to be sorted? Are AS Monaco players expatriate footballers in France, because Monaco plays in the French league? Or are they expatriate footballers in Monaco, because Monaco is an independent principality? And what about Liechtensteiner clubs that play in the Swiss leagues? Aecis·(away) talk 03:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please move Martin Demichelis to Martín Demichelis. Thanks. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 03:58, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi there, IP users keep on adding three players - one of whom doesn't even have an article! - to the famous players section of this article, but won't say why they merit being on there when a list of past players already exists - please can an admin protect the page! Thanks, Giant Snowman 19:46, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
I would like to try and get support for a taskforce on Youth Football. This would be a taskforce similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Taskforce on women's football to help with the articles involving Youth Football across the world. I belive this is a good idea as not enough attention on Wikipedia is focused on the editing of Youth Football articles and bringing them up to GA or FA status, or just getting them out of Stub-Class. This article would be a task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football.
To add your name to people supporting this click here. (I don't mind if you are not that active, just put your name down so I can start it and occasionally stop by to see how it's going. 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 17:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
NPOV is dead in Scotland? MaxSem( Han shot first!) 08:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
I've just been bold and moved Template:Infobox Football official to Template:Infobox football official, as I was sure this was the correct capitalisation. But then I noticed the widely-used Template:Infobox Football biography uses the upper case 'F' so I'm not so sure now. I think consistency within Category:Football (soccer) infobox templates would be good either way, but I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. Sorry if this is quite trivial. Thanks. -- Jameboy ( talk) 13:53, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello, List of Sweden international footballers is up at WP:Featured list removal candidates to improve the article to meet current Featured List standards. Reviewers' concerns are here. Cheers, Dabomb87 ( talk) 02:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the league full-pro now? Govvy ( talk) 01:29, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
A potential problem could arise should Histon win promotion as they don't automatically become full time club yet would be in what is fundamentally a full time league. Skitzo ( talk) 22:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
In the past it's been generally agreed that So-and-so F.C. season 2008-09 articles should only be created for professional teams, but what about List of So-and-so F.C. seasons-type articles? We've got one of these for a non-professional club which has made it all the way to FL, but that club has played at a national level (Conference National) - would a meticulously sourced article of this type be acceptable for a team which has never climed higher than the Northern Premier or Isthmian League.........? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 20:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Exxy keeps editing player infoboxes to show just starting appearances. Shouldn't the substitute appearances be included as well, and is there a policy on this? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 19:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
This isn't the correct title of this competition, surely.....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:10, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I've found quite often that bullshit full names have been added to footballers, like Stephen Carr (Stephen Babeson Carr) and Shaun Wright-Phillips (Shaun Lombe Cameron Wright-Phillips), that have been undetected and remain for even years. By looking in The PFA Premier & Football League Players' Records 1946-2005, I've found that these examples were incorrect, and has even led to independent websites copying Carr's incorrect name and so giving out wrong information. This leads me to thinking that surely we need to be stricter on the addition on full names and that, like all other aspects of adding information onto Wikipedia, references need to be added to confirm it. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Just to ask for some views on whether some players should be included in the first-team squad here. Ryan Mason, Jonathan Obika and Adam Smith were included in Tottenham's squad for their UEFA Cup game against N.E.C. Nijmegen, and so should they be included in the first-team squad? I would say so, as they have been included in a first-team game and so should be considered as being first-team players. Thanks, Mattythewhite ( talk) 12:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Have you had a look at Spurs.co.uk website? They clearly define those players as being reserves and academy. There is even Tottenham Hotspur F.C. Reserves and Academy for us to list them in. It's quite clear to me. Govvy ( talk) 12:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me that Govvy considers that he "owns" the THFC article and that no-one else can edit it without his approval.
If a player has appeared in the first team in a competitive match, then he is a part of the squad that the manager has chosen to use and that applies whether the player only appears once or 40 times. It is accepted that a player is sufficiently notable to have a WP article even if he only makes a 10 second cameo appearance as a substitute in a cup match. Why should stricter criteria apply to be considered part of the first team squad? What number of appearances would make a player a member of the squad - 2, 4, 6, 8?
Ultimately it is not for Govvy, me or any other editor to decide who is a member of the sqaud. The decision rests with the club and its manager - IMHO, once a player is allocated a squad number, he is a member of the squad. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 18:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I see that James Reid has been added to the Nottingham Forest squad Template:Nottingham Forest F.C. squad, even though so far he has only made one appearance as a 90th minute substitute. Based on some of the views above, he should be deleted - but how many games must he play before he's allowed in? - Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 17:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
How many matches has Shota Arveladze played for the national team of Georgia? 61, with 26 goals, as we say in the lead of the article? 53, with 22 goals, as we say in the infobox? Or 45, with 15 goals, as listed on Soccerbase.com? Aecis·(away) talk 09:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
if a player based in a foreign country where the season has finished for the winter signs a pre-contract agreement to join an English club when the transfer window opens in January, when would you add him to the English club's squad? As this is not a hypothetical question, any advice would be gratefully received :-) cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 20:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Not necessarily. Sven-Goran Eriksson signed a pre-contract deal to manage Blackburn, but eventually cancelled the deal to manage Lazio instead. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 22:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
According to this site, Tom Søndergaard has died way back in 1997. Is that correct? Aecis·(away) talk 18:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need them? They seem like clutter and a repeat of information most of the time. Between clubs and bio pages there is the Honours section which already lists the honour with the date. You can view who was previous and post by looking through those dates. The succession boxes although makes it that tad quicker, is just a repeat of information when I see it... Thoughts? Govvy ( talk) 22:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
What are (or should be) the inclusion criteria for the "Foo-born footballers who played for other national teams"? The reason I'm asking this is Law Adam. I had included him in Category:Netherlands-born footballers who played for other national teams, because he was born in the Dutch East Indies, which at the time was a Dutch colony. Ario ManUtd ( talk · contribs) has removed Adam from the category because "the page I created means all of footballers who were born in present day-Netherlands (not included Netherlands Antilles, Aruba, etc)." Aecis·(away) talk 01:22, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I know that things like Bolton Wanderers F.C. season 2006-07 are standard (the concept, I mean: the actual article needs sources, an introduction, ...). However, to add to this a long, long page (when finished) like Bolton Wanderers F.C. season 2006-07 game log seems to me overkill. Do you have some guidance and/or guidelines on these? Fram ( talk) 15:14, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Look at the categories at the bottom of his article. Are they all needed? I know this has been brought up many times but there is never a clear answer. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to start an edit war with Hubschrauber729 ( talk · contribs) over Nuri Şahin, so I'm bringing the issue here. I had added Şahin to the categories Category:Turkish expatriate footballers and Category:Turkish expatriates in the Netherlands, because he has represented Turkey. Hubschrauber729 twice changed that to German, because Şahin was born and raised in Germany. What is the "rule" for the expatriate categories? Aecis·(away) talk 23:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Just discovered (in a clicking-around sense) this article, which had a notability check tagged upon it in September. I thought it might be of interest to some in the project. - Dudesleeper / Talk 01:06, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
06 January, 2005 Falkirk Herald" - that's the bibliographic data I have for their google news hit. I'm not sure of anything else in easily accessible press coverage. matt91486 ( talk) 01:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Safe Standing redirects there, which is backwards. There's been sufficient media attention to the topic in general to merit an article about the concept, e.g. [4], but the term should not redirect to a pressure group. Oldelpaso ( talk) 08:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I think this page needs some protection - the sacking speculation is going to send the article ballistic. Dancarney ( talk) 12:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I know photos, particularly older ones, can be difficult to get our hands on. I've just found this photostream on flickr, which seems to have the appropriate licensing for us to use. Most of it is of Craven Cottage and Fulham, but in case anyone might want to use some of them, I thought I'd add a quite note. Peanut4 ( talk) 18:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
I've just come across this team, which just happens to be one that Luis Figo played for when he was a kid. From what I can tell, this is just a small futsal / street football club based in a Lisbon suburb, and would probably not be notable enough under the usual scheme of things. However, there does seem to be a bit of news coverage on this team, such as this article. The question is this - would this be enough to satisfy notability guidelines for a football team? Bettia (rawr!) 16:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Were we (as a project) given notice that Adam Boyd was undergoing a GA review, as the first I heard of it was when I saw "Adam Boyd no longer GA" in my watchlist. I wasn't watching the Boyd article, but I'd quite like to have known that we were in danger of losing a Good Article - too late now, though we could always bring it up to scratch and re-nominate it. In any case I think it would be worth a few of us checking the good article reassessment page from time to time so that we can do our best to maintain the status of our existing Good Articles (as well as getting new ones listed). -- Jameboy ( talk) 00:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello there, the article Henrik Larsson, which falls under the auspices of this Wikiproject, has come under review as part of GA Sweeps and a number of problems have been identified and listed on the talk page. If these problems have not begun to be addressed by seven days from this notice, the article will be delisted from GA and will have to go through the WP:GAN process all over again to regain its status once improvements have been made. If you have any questions, please drop me a line.-- Jackyd101 ( talk) 23:22, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I just came across this article High Altitude Football Controversy, it is surely a subject worthy of an article, but it currently reads like its been writted by a journalism student. The high altitude ban is an issue that his implications outside Bolivia, the list of Bolivian home results seems unneccessary. I will attempt to clean it up a bit, any help appreciated, King of the North East 00:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
We've got two categories for expatriates from the former Yugoslavia: Category:Yugoslav expatriate footballers and Category:Yugoslavian expatriate footballers. Which is the right name? Aecis·(away) talk 12:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Can you explain why we would then have Category:Yugoslav expatriates and Category:Yugoslavian expatriate footballers? Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 07:12, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
(In response to the inquiry on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Yugoslavia) The proper adjective for a person from Yugoslavia is "Yugoslav". -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 14:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Searching through the article about Yugoslavia, I found multiple mentioning of "Yugoslav" (people etc.), but only two times were "Yugoslavian" used. lil2mas ( talk) 22:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
This article was restored from deletion by User:Phil Sandifer today, with the assertion that being in the Manchester United first team without actually having played a match is enough to satisfy WP:N and that the reasons for deletion given at the article's AfD are no longer valid. Can someone please talk some sense into him? – Pee Jay 23:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I see that Phil has recreated the article yet again, even though the DRV is still going (and indeed was closed as "endorse delete" at one stage. Can another admin please deal with this, as no doubt I will be accused of "wheel-warring" if I delete the article again. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 18:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
[5] -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Isn't this category just Scottish expatriate footballers in England? Govvy ( talk) 15:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I am finding them a little unreliable at the moment. For instance Didier Zokora & Jermaine Jenas stats on the site are wrong. Jenas didn't play against Liverpool in a game and Zokora was selected to take his place. Soccerbase failed to take light of this, nor did it respond to my email of their statistics being incorrect. It makes me feel that the website is unreliable. At the same time I think ESPNs soccernet.com is much more reliable. I don't understand why we don't use them enough for external linking or citation. Govvy ( talk) 22:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I do hope this is the right place... having a little trouble working out how to create a new kit design for Royal Marines A.F.C.. They have an unusual wide dark blue hoop, narrow yellow hoop, narrow green hoop, mid-sized red hoop and another wide dark blue hoop, on a white shirt ( click here for a picture). Could anyone either help me create it or point me in the direction so that I can do so myself? Stuartpgardner ( talk) 00:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I read this in the paper and found the article online, [7] I am assuming Eagles is effectively saying he is a Spurs fan by this quote. "I was a season ticket holder at White Hart Lane, the whole family were Spurs fans so it is a very special game for me," Just asking if you lot think the url is good enough to add to his article for citation saying he is a Spurs fan? Govvy ( talk) 20:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I've been removing club nicknames from articles that appear to be used only by fans of the club in question (Superhoops in Q.P.R.'s article, for example). I am in the right to be removing these, I take it, even though it can be argued that these nicknames are in common usage? - Dudesleeper / Talk 22:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The most notable nickname for Queens Park Rangers is QPR, and that should go in the infobox. The Rs and the Superhoops are notable nicknames and should be mentioned in the body copy. --
Dweller (
talk) 15:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)Not sure on this... will rethink. --
Dweller (
talk)
15:40, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Quick question, what constitutes a notable football match? Obviously Cup finals such as Chamions League, UEFA Cup, World Cup final, etc, have their own articles, but is there a notability guideline for non finals matches? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Some useful debate at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bayern Munich 1 - 2 Norwich City -- Dweller ( talk) 15:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Is he the son of Tony Spearing? The name's relatively unusual, and at 44, Tony seems about the right age... But any RS? -- Dweller ( talk) 11:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh. Shame. Thanks. I'll slink back off to cricket stuff now, cheers... -- Dweller ( talk) 12:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm aware there's been discussion about this issue, but it's been a long time since I was involved with WP:FOOTY and I suffer badly from WP:TLDR disease.
Is there an NPOV and brief summary of where consensus is now on this? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, that's what I thought, but I see the confusingly unclosed closed DRV at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_December_7#F.C3.A1bio_Pereira_da_Silva and the article exists baldly stating 0 pro appearances... I'm generally confused. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Done New AfD is listed at
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fábio Pereira da Silva (2nd nomination). --
Dweller (
talk)
16:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
The latter has a size of around 65 kB and is more or less neatly packed into History of Valencia CF. Nevertheless, the content of this article also appears word for word on the Valencia CF article as well, although there is a link to the history article at the top of the section. This bloats Valencia CF to around 100 kB, which clearly violates WP:SIZE. I have already tried to remove the redundant content, but got reverted by User:Fadiga09 without comment. Another IP user who tried the same thing a few days ago was reverted by Fadiga09 as well, accompanied by an editing summary of "Shut up." I have used up my second reversal opportunity now, but I'm almost sure that it will being reverted as well. Can other project members help to ressolve the issue? A discussion has already been started at Talk:Valencia CF as well; participation in it would be gladly appreciated. --- Hockey-holic ( talk) 21:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
After reverting an editors addition of non-league games from the infobox, it got me thinking: Why do we only put the league stats in the infobox? What is the purpose of doing things like this? I can't seem to find any reason in the MoS or think of any reasons why this should be "the correct way". Any one have any thoughts on this? Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 04:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm starting a list of redlinked articles (on a user subpage, here) relating to the FA Cup which could do to be created. Just to be sure before I begin, though, I'm assuming that if a player has played in the FA Cup Final, or if a team has competed in the FA Cup proper (not automatically notable if they only played in the qualifying rounds), that they're notable? If not, is it down to being a pro-team, having played in the Football League at any stage, or what? El Pollo Diablo ( Talk) 10:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Just a quick note - Thornycrofts (Woolston) F.C. (who are listed as appearing in 1919-20) are now known as VT F.C. Bettia (rawr!) 14:15, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm planning on writing an article on another Gary Bennett, but I need his DOB to disambiguate the page (there are already two other footballers by the same name with articles). This one played for Colchester (1988-1994), Braintree, Chelmsford, AFC Sudbury and a few other East Anglian clubs. If anyone has details on his club career between 1994 and 2000, that would also be appreciated> Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 13:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I'm not familiar with Asian football at all, but what in all world is this? Given that (according to the AFC Champions League article) there have been six season of AFC CL play so far, this table seems not quite right to me, to say the least. <irony>But perhaps it's another new competition with a similar name we have not heard of so far.</irony>
Seriously, everything points to a hoax or something similar. PROD? AfD? Hockey-holic ( talk) 01:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The teams appearing multiple times could be that there are a number of teams with the same name (eg.
Al Ahli,
Al-Ittihad for a start). Not having had a close look at this page it would seem they are including results from the Asian Champion Club Tournament and Asian Club Championships competitions which where forerunners of the current ACL. I'd suggest with a bit of work this page could be retained...
Nothing to see here...
Hack (
talk)
02:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
We've got an IP editor seeking to re-open the debate on this issue once again on the Midfielder page. Please feel free to add your thoughts on its talk page. Thanks. Beve ( talk) 08:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I came across this article. Not ever hearing this in English was just wondering if this term is widely used... Hack ( talk) 04:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
The only RS attestation for it currently is in Spanish. It could be a notable term in Spanish, but not in English. It could be notable in both. Or it could be notable in neither. It's hard to say. Best bet is to open an AfD and invite expert opinion from members of this WikiProject and at say a Latin American one and the Languages Ref Desk. -- Dweller ( talk) 11:45, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a bun-fight going on at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 39#Severe overuse problem over the inclusion of some College American Football logos in articles outside the teams core articles. In particular, the discussions are hovering around their additions to season, game, rivalry and league articles and how this is possibly/probably/definitely (depending on your outlook) an issue of decoration. I know we're pretty good now at keeping our logos only in the most relevant articles and having decent FURs for them, so if anyone feels qualified to chip into the argument - have fun. Nanonic ( talk) 17:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
This topic is in my opinion pretty interesting but still unsolved. What is the number of players that should be included in the list? Also there are some leagues (like Danish Superliga 2008-09) where all the scorers are listed although under the name Top goalscorers. Hockey-holic tried to remove scorers with only 3-4 goals or less in Serbian Superliga 2008-09 but this only led to a discussion. I don't want to do anything without asking others interested in this topic (like Kalaha that edits Danish article) and I would appreciate comments on this. SonjiCeli ( talk) 14:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
We are a new taskforce, looking to categorise and improve articles about variations of football, like Futsal or Beach Soccer.
We need members, and it would really help if you joined us - 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 15:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Uhm, I'm against all expatriate categories but this one doesn't even make any sense. Expatriate refers to a nation not a region. Any thoughts? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 22:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
How did this category renaming slip through without coming to the attention of WP:FOOTBALL? Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 18:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
In the "career statistics" tables on several Arsenal player articles, e.g. Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie, Cesc Fàbregas there are columns for " assists" which are referenced to Soccernet. I can't see similar information for players from other clubs, e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo, Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard. In my opinion, this information is not particularly relevant nor meaningful and I'd like to get rid of them but I'm probably on my own here. What do other users think? incidentally, how reliable are the soccernet pages? -- Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 07:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm struggling a little with this...
Supporters clubs can be notable, but I think it's clear most of the ones nominated here are not.
I'm struggling though with Capital Canaries. See my comments at the AfD. While the existing article definitely fails WP:V, I think that it can be verified as notable, as I've explained at the AfD, but I'd appreciate some expert opinions from others on this. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
A new taskforce, like the WikiProject Scottish Football was, except with more members. Anyone intrested? 2o-DeMoN-o8 t* c* a* wp 16:34, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
An editor has created articles on all the clubs in the Galway & District League down to its fifth level. This is effectively the fifth to ninth level in the Republic of Ireland.
Does anyone have opinions on where the rough cut-off for Irish club notability should be? пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 10:16, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
On reflection, he's **already** a wonderful asset, just slightly misdirected on this score. I'd get rid of the speedy tags and notifications for now and begin by engaging him in dialogue. There's no deadline, and it doesn't matter if we don't blast his work out of the sky in an instant. Best result would be if he could be persuaded to db-author any/all inappropriate articles because he's understood our policies. -- Dweller ( talk) 12:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
There is currently an on-going discussion if the A championship and its teams should also be included to the FAI League of Ireland 2009 season article. The controversy is about whether a) the A Championship is the third tier of the LOI and b) the three non-reserve teams are members of the LOI. Can somebody more familiar with Irish football help to resolve the issue? -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 14:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm currently working on improvements to Bradford City stadium fire. In the mean time, User:Coolgamer keeps adding a direct link to footage on wikileaks. I've reverted it a couple of times, and has also been previously removed by User:Thumperward and IP addresses. I've previously asked him to take it to the talk page, since at least three users reverted it, but to no avail. His last edit claims he thinks it's notable. I disagree since it has received no third party coverage, and the footage is in breach of copyright from Yorkshire Television, and so for the same reason YouTube videos cannot be used as sources, I've removed it. Does anyone else have any opinions on whether to include it or not? Peanut4 ( talk) 19:21, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Again one of these categories, this time it is an English one! nether-the-less. An expatriate is someone who has removed from citizenship of so called country. I just had a look at the category and most of the peeps in there are living in England and currently have citizenship. Being an English expatriate footballer, well something is clearly wrong here. I think there needs to be a real series address on this subject. Frankly I want this category removed because it is just ridiculous. Govvy ( talk) 19:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Could an admin restore Barry Bannan? He made his debut for Aston Villa today as a substitute. matt91486 ( talk) 21:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I tagged Cole Arns for speedy deletion as blatant hoax, and notified the creator. The page has similar content to this Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andy Matthews, created by the same editor. The speedy tag has been removed by an anon. Don't know what the procedure is now... help... cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 17:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing this is a hoax? Can anyone else confirm? Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 07:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi all, I've discovered yesterday that the article about NEC Nijmegen uses dots in its title, so it is N.E.C. Nijmegen; since all other Dutch football teams do not use dots (see PSV Eindhoven, AZ (football club) and NAC Breda, just to cite some), I would like to ask you for more thoughts and clarifications about this choice. Personally I think dots should not be used in this case, the club name is never mentioned with dots in local media, and even the club crest does not use dots. I started a discussion at Talk:N.E.C. Nijmegen. Thank you. -- Angelo ( talk) 14:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article has been PROD'ed as the player has never played in the Football League, however the article includes at least three sources which are reliable and solely about the subject in question. Without wishing to re-open a big ol' can of worms or get all waxy, if that Man U kid passed muster due to the existence of sources, doesn't this guy too? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 08:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
"Geohaghon's goal at Rockingham Road in the First round proper of the 2008–09 FA Cup as Kettering Town held Football League Two club Lincoln City to a 1-1 draw on 8 November 2008" isn't that enough to pass our notability criteria? (Even if he hadn't scored) -- Dweller ( talk) 10:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
So, taking this to an extreme, if Hereford had not managed to get promoted, late in his career, would Ronnie Radford not be notable? I'd argue he's notable because of one goal in one match he played. If he'd broken his leg the next minute and never played again, he'd be notable. -- Dweller ( talk) 11:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Coming back to the original question, I note that most of the sources for the Exodus Geohaghon article are from local newspapers (8/12) with the rest either from his club or from sites dealing with non-league football (and one to the ITV coverage of the FA Cup). If such sources are sufficient to meet the requirements of WP:N, then any non-league player will get through, providing the article is fully referenced. Likewise any youth player for a professional club would get in. For example, I could find enough references in either the local press or the Southampton website to write an article about their third choice goalkeeper, Tommy Forecast, although he's never got further than the bench. Likewise, I could find enough sources to create an article about Luke Byles, who plays for Eastleigh - he's regularly mentioned in the local press. Neither of these players meet the standards of WP:ATHLETE, however. It seems to me that by allowing WP:N to over-ride WP:ATHLETE, the bar has been lowered to such a point that anyone will qualify for an article, providing sufficient sources can be found. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 13:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't see anywhere in WP:N, anything that either rules out local newspapers or non-league newspapers from independent sources. In my opinion, Exodus Geoghegan passes WP:N but clearly not WP:ATHLETE. Peanut4 ( talk) 19:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Some wise IP user has removed the PROD notice with no summary explanation at all. I am opening an AFD. -- Angelo ( talk) 13:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
We deleted Category:Scottish footballers who have played in England Should we not also delete Category:English footballers who have played in Scotland ? Govvy ( talk) 21:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I found bored to move the Fb round2 templates as the UEFA Champions League and Europa League rounds are renamed. Please help for rename those template please. You can feel free to rename by refering here, thanks. Raymond "Giggs" K o 05:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Could somebody check the recent edits made by anons to Celtic F.C.? I have no idea whether their edits are correct or not. Little Red Riding Hood talk 19:26, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Thoughts? Govvy ( talk) 00:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please delete Template:Fb team SSV Ulm? The template is a hardcopy of Template:Fb team Ulm and thus had been speedied since December 7, but did not appear on Category:Templates for speedy deletion for some reason. -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 16:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
How many staff members should be included in a club article? Nottingham Forest F.C.#Club officials lists the Chairman, the Chief Executive, the Finance Director, the Associate Directors, the Manager, the First Team Coaches, the Goalkeeping Coach, the Academy Director, the Sports Scientist, the Physiotherapists, the Chief Scout, the Medical Consultant, the Football Administrator, the Stadium Manager, the Head Groundsman, the Safety Officer, the Operations Manager, the Commercial Manager, the Ticket Office Manager, the Shop Manager, the Press Officer, the Programme Editor, the Website Manager, the P.R. Executive, the Community Directors and the Club Chaplain. Way too much, imo. Aecis·(away) talk 13:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Is there really any point in this? Mattythewhite ( talk) 18:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Call me reactionary but the heights in these boxes seem to be changed/vandalised/contested with far too much frequency. Is there any reason why they should even be there? Height is largely an unimportant factor for a footballer (with the exception of goalkeepers). Strikers, midfielders and defenders come in all shapes and sizes (as the human race does). Is there any specific reason why height is more important to mention in the infobox of Pelé than it is, of say, Barack Obama? I suggest removal of the height field on the basis that provides little value to the articles. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 18:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Can an admin please take a look at the edit history of the Toronto Lynx page, and protect it? There is a persistent vandal who continually adds the names "Rony Talow" and "Lil' Rosny" to the roster, using multiple sockpuppets and different IP addresses. It's so tiresome having to keep reverting it. Thanks. -- JonBroxton ( talk) 05:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
On the bit =publisher do you think it's best to put the website url? Or the full club name? Govvy ( talk) 21:14, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Mayumashu has been creating and populating a load more Xian footballers in Y categories despite being aware of the consensus to delete them. Please can we do something to uphold this consensus before we end up with 20,000 categories like Category:Algerian expatriate footballers in England and the completely empty Category:Argentine expatriate footballers in Italy. They can easily be generated like this. King of the North East 21:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
On César Sánchez Spurs second goalkeeper Mayumashu just removed two categories saying redundant cat page links cut I am not quite sure, but it sounds wrong to me, I think they should be put back. Can someone confirm that for me. Govvy ( talk) 10:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
What is the nationality of Bajram Sadrijaj? His article says Albanian, but the article Borussia Dortmund says Serbian. I've found both on the internet. l'Equipe and France Football say Albania, Fox Sports says Serbia. Aecis·(away) talk 22:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Any reasons why the kits are not in the infobox, but just below it? Giant Snowman 22:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Note that another user has taken them back out of the infobox and put the "floating images" back in, for no obvious reason..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 10:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Can sanyone else help out with the article? User:Salalah4life keeps removing the kits from the infobox and putting in excessively detailed depictions as floating stand-alone images (not using the fb kit template) further down the article...... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
..........that if an individual's only involvement at a fully professional level was one match as caretaker manager, there isn't really any grounds for him to have a WP article? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I just scanned in two programme covers with Bill Nicholson on, but I am now not sure if I can use them on wikicommon or pedia. The copyright is owned by Tottenham Hotspur, they are from 1986 and 1983. :/ Govvy ( talk) 17:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
No matter what you celebrate, or who you support, this is for you.
Merry Yuletides to you! (And a happy new year!)
Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 19:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
An anon editor insists on removing this image from Simon Grayson, saying it's too low in quality. What do people think? I personally think it will suffice. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:25, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Football ground currently redirects to Association football pitch, but I understand the term to mean the whole stadium, not just the pitch, albeit that this is probably colloquial and technically inaccurate. I'd be interested to hear what other people think about this. My own point of view means that I am unable to objectively determine what the primary meaning of "football ground" should be. Not sure if it should be a disambiguation page, if the redirect should be altered or if it should stay as it is. Thanks. -- Jameboy ( talk) 22:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I'd say that Football ground is the stadium as a whole but you could leave a disambiguation link at the top of the article. Skitzo ( talk) 23:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
With the upcoming transfer window, which leagues should be included in the lists of winter transfers?
The German list includes all three professional leagues, whereas
the English list features only the two highest leagues and
the Dutch list includes only the top professional league (
Eredivisie).
And which system should we use? Most lists are sorted by club, but
Italy,
Croatia and
Spain are sorted by date.
Belgium has a double intersection, listing the transfers both by date and by club.
Aecis·(away)
talk
23:42, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I have just PRODded Positions by round in Süper Lig 2008-09 and merged the content into Süper Lig 2008–09. Any PbR tables, if needed at all, should go directly to the respective season article, shouldn't they? -- Soccer-holic ( talk) 17:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Two things:
Would anyone happen to have access to a copy of Red and Raw: A Post-War History of Manchester United v Liverpool? I'm looking to expand Liverpool F.C. and Manchester United F.C. rivalry, and a printed source might be quite helpful. – Pee Jay 22:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know the which leauges in Turkey are fully professional? We all know the Süper Lig is fully pro, but I am not sure if the TFF First League is fully pro as well. Hubschrauber729 ( talk) 21:04, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a bit of a discussion over at Talk:Intercontinental Cup and FIFA Club World Cup statistics about whether or not the Intercontinental Cup and the FIFA Club World Cup should be treated as one competition by combining their stats. User:Gethomas3 seems to believe that the two competitions are effectively the same thing, despite the fact that FIFA only records the history of the Club World Cup from 2000 onwards. The user also believes that statistics for the European Cup and the UEFA Champions League should be separated, despite the fact that UEFA records the history of the two competitions together all the way back to 1955. Anyway, the discussion is available for you all to see at Talk:Intercontinental Cup and FIFA Club World Cup statistics#Suggested split. Happy commenting! – Pee Jay 18:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The Atlético Madrid article was moved to Atlético de Madrid on 2 December 2008, as a result of an RM request on the article's talk page. There was one support !vote, which was given with no rationale and given by someone who clearly doesn't spend much time editing football-related articles. The RM was not listed for anyone to see, other than people who might have been browsing WP:RM from 27 November to 2 December, which gave most of us bugger all chance of seeing it. I have now reverted the move with the suggestion that, should anyone wish to request the page to be moved again, they list it here at WP:FOOTY. – Pee Jay 11:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
If there's an agenda here to make the article more hispanic, the edits I just made to the opening of the Lead (what the club's usually called in English) are likely to be reverted. Lookout please? They could do with some referencing, if anyone's feeling up to it? -- Dweller ( talk) 12:37, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
<-I'm not aware that Austria Wien is known in English popularly as anything else, but I do suggest we move SK Rapid Wien to Rapid Vienna per COMMONNAME. -- Dweller ( talk) 13:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a page move version of WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. Because other pages are currently badly named, doesn't mean AM's should be too. It's just that we've not got round to fixing the others yet, possibly because there's more important things to do, like writing decent articles. WP:COMMONNAME is very clear - AM should be named without any "de" in it. -- Dweller ( talk) 14:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
It's unfortunate that you cite the policy and inadvertently miss out the bit that disproves your point.
I'll paste below what it says in full, with some adapted use of bold from the original to make it clear:
Tests for "no ambiguity": the club's official web site has an English-language section; and that name has been adopted at least by a significant section of the English-language media; and it is recognizable; and it is not easily confused with other clubs' names.
Can we stop now? -- Dweller ( talk) 15:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC) (NB even the club themselves on their official site use the common English variant: see opening lines to this page about their centenary -- Dweller ( talk) 15:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Tests for "ambiguity": the club's official web site does not have an English-language section; or it is not broadly recognizable; or it is easily confused with other clubs' names.
then? It has a website, it would be easily recognized with, and you can't confuse it with other clubs. This is not changing the spelling of the town from local to english, its just adding the correct grammar. And ignore all the "de" on their english page just because they don't have it on all plages, as you can see, full name used officially in the table in the fixtures they use Atletico de Madrid in the text and so on. And if you read the HEADLINE on the link you posted you'll see Atletico de Madrid — chan dler — 15:09, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
<ahem> You're supposed to be arguing it's "not ambiguous", not "ambiguous". if it's ambiguous, we definitely will go with AM. If you want to argue my side of the point, you're welcome. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
English language RS call the club AM. With no "de". Are we on WP:LAME yet? I'd really rather be spending my time writing an encyclopedia than arguing this point. -- Dweller ( talk) 15:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I live about 10 minutes from the stadium and am a fan of the team. In Spanish, the team's name is Atlético de Madrid. JonCatalán (Talk) 02:17, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
I see FK Austria Wien were brought up here. They're usually referred to as Austria Vienna in the English press. Isn't it time we went through the European leagues one-by-one and came up with a proper set of consistent standards for which form to use? Right now it appears that there's little consistency even between teams in the same league. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Just noticed that a user called Mikemor92 have moved the articles of Fredrik Ljungberg and Daniel Alves to nickname titles, Freddie Ljungberg and Dani Alves, I tried to look for some discussion about it but couldnt find any. And I really don't see a reason for the moves and think they should be reverted. Any thoughts? — chan dler — 18:16, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) Which article should not be moved to the nickname? Articles should be placed at the most appropriate place per WP:COMMONNAME just as ChrisTheDude suggests, e.g. Teddy Sheringham, Bobby Charlton, Alex Ferguson, Tony Cascarino, etc. Just as those players who are known by their middle names e.g. Lee Mills not Rowan Mills, etc. Peanut4 ( talk) 23:44, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
What a gigantic pain for something which shouldn't require two minutes' worth of discussion. Talk:Fredrik Ljungberg#Requested move. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:42, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
Since this has turned into a slow edit war on Seattle Sounders FC in regards to the flag to put next to Sigi Schmid's name in the team's infobox I figured I'd bring this up to the football community at large... According to MOS:ICON, when a flag is used it should be the flag for the national squad that they are associated with. So, in Sigi Schmid's case, he was born in Germany, immigrated to the US at an early age, hasn't played for any national squad, but he has been the coach for the US U-20 national team. Would the flag associated with Sigi be the US or German flag? -- Bobblehead (rants) 00:20, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I just got home to find I left my PC on... again! But anyway, Happy new year from London to all. Govvy ( talk) 01:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
User:NapHit has been editing this page for most of the day. I have asked him why he has removed functionality from the article, to which he replied he was "cleaning up" as it was "messy". I have told him I disagreed with his edits and suggested he open a discussion about them, however, he has chosen not to do so. I'd appreciate it if someone could have a look at what he's doing and render their opinion about it. Madcynic ( talk) 16:58, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
This BBC article confirms that the Zanzibar national football team is playing in the Cecafa Cup - does this mean that they are now an official national team, become affiliated to either CAF or FIFA? Giant Snowman 17:54, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
It seems that there are issues between Football Association of Tanzania and the Zanzibar Football Association as shown by this article from 2002... Hack ( talk) 02:38, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Is there an issue with the clickable sort buttons in tables? It could be browser-related (I only have Mozilla at present), but I can't sort columns at all. See list of one-club men for an example. - Dudesleeper / Talk 21:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that User:Jonathan Winsky has gone through a massive number of non-league club articles and has made the club's home ground in the infobox a link to the ground's coordinates. I'm not sure that this is particularly helpful, but thought I ought to put it up for discussion before doing anything about it. Dancarney ( talk) 10:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
When every sprog with access to a PC thinks he is a budding journalist and has to be the first to break the news that player X has moved from XYZ F.C. to ABC F.C. Wayne Bridge is a classic example. I'll just go away for a few days and tidy up the crap when the deal is done. Daemonic Kangaroo ( talk) 17:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've noticed several unsettling naming conventions. surely stating (for example) 'Liverpool', 'Leeds' or 'Milan' when discussing a football club in the opening sections of an article or a table is incorrect. I can see how this would be no problem mid-article once the identities of the clubs are clearly established, but when an article starts (for example) 'the 2005 champions league final was contested between Liverpool and Milan', using simply the name of the town/city, surely this is not right? Liverpool the city was not playing Milan the city, and as many Evertonians will no doubtedly attest, Liverpool F.C is not the only club in Liverpool! I've even seen 'Manchester' as 08 Premier League winners, the implications of which - ie City winning anything - I personally take offence to!
if this has been discussed before, it should be again and sorted, becuase the way many articles read is simply not correct. Jw2035 ( talk) 21:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
(ec)When talking about football in a football article, there is only one Liverpool and one Milan (No Internazionale is never refered to as Milan) and can't cause confusion. When it comes to cities with two or multiple clubs with the city/same name playing at reasonable high/same level, Manchester, Sheffield, Madrid for name a few, it's ofc important to use the full name, or the common way to distingue them (I heard that American commentators for example called Man Utd "Manchester" during thte Club World Cup). — chan dler — 21:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
think it's ok in match commentary - liverpool arn't called liverpool fc throughout, and man united are often simply called 'united' by match commentators. but this is only alright since it has been established that the 'manchester' means 'that team in red which is playing' and not 'that city in the north west' or 'that club which play in sky blue'. this is the same in articles - once the distinction has been made (for example in the intro) it should be ok to simply refer to 'united', 'liverpool', 'sheffield', but the distiniction should always be clear. i think even though inter milan are as internatzionale throughout wikipedia, simply putting 'milan' for ac is still confusing to a novice reader? Jw2035 ( talk) 22:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
This little guy is the subject of rather a large bit of misinformation today. The BBC, UEFA and, I'm sure, numerous others claim that he transferred to Manchester United today, only to be immediately loaned back to Partizan. On the face of it, that would seem to be the case, and editors could be forgiven for editing Adem Ljajić's article in order to reflect that circumstance. However, Manchester United themselves claim that they have "an agreement" with Partizan that Ljajić should remain with them for the remainder of the calendar year of 2009. Again, seems feasible. But what both sets of sources has failed to mention is the FIFA regulation that non-EU players under the age of 18 cannot be transferred to clubs within the EU. Since Adem Ljajić does not turn 18 until September 2009 (after the 2009 summer transfer window has closed), he cannot join Manchester United until January 2010. Bearing that in mind, can someone PLEASE help me keep Adem Ljajić's article in check? Failing that, let's just have a big discussion. – Pee Jay 23:53, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
2008– Partizan
is the best choice. Because 2008–2010 Partizan 2010– Manchester United
might at first glance look like he's ended his Partizan spell, while 2008– Partizan 2010– Manchester United
might look a bit weird. —
chan
dler —
00:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
It is correct in its current form of 2008–2009 Partizan 2009– Manchester United 2009– Partizan (loan)
for the simple reason that simply because he is not registered with the FA does not mean he isn't a Manchester United player. Other teams cannot sign him without the permission of Manchester United and paying the appropriate compensation to Manchester United. Ljajic is on loan to Partizan untill 01/2010. This is the same for players who do not qualify for a work permit and are loaned to other EU clubs. Use some common sence people, he's a Manchester United player who is on loan to Partizan untill Jan 2010.
Ck786 (
talk)
14:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Basically, I want to use YourThurrock as a source in a couple of articles. The website is kind of bloglike and the main page changes, and stories are not archived. How do I source the page as it is now, before it changes and the citations I need are gone? Cheers, -- Jimbo [online] 06:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
This user has been reverting sourced information from most of the Champions League final articles including two which are up for GA nomination. He claims he is doing this because the information is not required and does not fit in with the 2007 article which is a featured article and he claims is a template. PeeJay has also encountered the same problem with this user, I would like to know what the community thinks, and what course of action you recommend, as his actions are jeopardising two GA nominations, one of which is on hold. NapHit ( talk) 14:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
now this is a personal attack. doesn't the accused get a say?
the GA nominations in question have failed. they have failed for several reasons, notably the use of pov statements, colloquialisms, rambling 'reactions', 'build-up', 'aftermath', 'route to the final', 'what arsene wenger says', etc... sections, trivia only vaguely connected to the finals and sometimes rambling into topics that have nothing to do with the article in question (which towns are twinned with the finalists for example) and selective POV quotations.
the two above users have made no effort to discuss any changes along these lines (even though I've provided full justification for every edit), instead resorting to accusing me of vandalism, sock puppetry and ruining 'their page' or 'their work' - including a statement from NapHit that he had written (solely) the 2007 final featured article.
if anyone has any opinions on what the format of a champions league final article should look like and contain, please post here. otherwise UEFA Champions League Final 2007, a featured article, is the template to wich I have made any structural edits. i've justified every edit i've made; please feel free to post on my or the article tal page if you disagree with any of them, and i'll be happy to discuss it. Jw2035 ( talk) 18:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
i see no way of reaching consensus with the above editors by discussion. they seem unprepared to debate any changes to their pet articles. either formal mediation or back down and let the edits stand Jw2035 ( talk) 20:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm just want to check if there is a consensus for if for example Kosovo is suppose to be included on current maps. And small other things. I ask because yesterday I updated File:European Football Championship appearances.png (plus Hosts, Winners, Best results) per request to include the UEFA countries missing. Now on those I left out Kosovo (and Monaco, Vatican City and some other non-UEFA dependencies). But should Kosovo be represented as a non-UEFA, or non-existing (as if Serbia covers the whole area) until the Kosovo FA have been accepted into FIFA and UEFA? Or are there guidelines on what to do with maps when there are territorial disputes? And should perhaps non-FIFA FA's in internationally recognized countries be included as non-UEFA countries on the map? — chan dler — 23:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fábio Pereira da Silva (2nd nomination).
Can I now move to mainspace User:Dweller/Tom Adeyemi and User:Dweller/Luke Daley? I think not. But I have cited non trivial mentions of these players from RS in their articles (especially Daley, whose article is more "worked up"). So what makes da Silva special? It can't be that he has a notable brother - notability is not inherited. So, is this result saying that players are not notable until they play, unless they're signed by Manchester United? Either that's the case, or Adeyemi and Daley are notable too. -- Dweller ( talk) 10:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The sad fact is that it should have never been at AfD, as the article was illegitimately re-created by Phil following two DRVs which were both closed as endorse deletion. No consensus to delete should have been a no consensus to restore. Perhaps the improper procedure is worth looking into. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 14:13, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Football experts surely know better than average users what makes a footballer notable, aren't they? Don't try to minimize the efforts produced by this WikiProject, which is casually one of the biggest in the whole Wikipedia, and also respect their users. Footballers should be deemed notable because of their footballing efforts at first, likewise musicians, politicians and writers. It makes no sense to deem a footballer as being notable because he barely makes the news, with sources regarding him hardly covering the subject in deep and significant detail, and most of sources existing just because of the team he is contracted with (not the team he plays for, because he has never actually played for Man Utd's first team). Would he be notable if he was contracted with Wigan Athletic instead than Manchester United? I think no. And I think he is not notable in any case. As said earlier, we're between two pushes, the one being more inclusionist (especially supported by major team fans who also happened to create articles about team physios, I know this by personal experience), the other being more deletionist (supported by users who cannot accept having articles for each professionally contracted footballer). A single AFD case does not change the widely-confirmed consensus for having only players who actually managed to play a competitive game. -- Angelo ( talk) 15:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
This really isn't worth staging a drama over. The guy will probably come on as a 92nd minute sub on boxing day and hey presto, he meets wp:athlete and everyone's happy. (The idea that playing a couple of minutes of professional football can flip a person's status from Non-Notable to Notable! is of course absurd, but that is the dogma being advanced by a number of people here.) And this is largely irrelevant, since the references already listed in Fabio's article clearly establish notability, but can I propose a thought experiment here (and for similar cases). Can anyone think of any circumstances under which this guy would not meet wp:athlete at some point in the future? It's possible that he will never play a first team game for Manchester Utd or for any other club. Given the amount of press coverage he's already got, however, I'd think anything that could prevent him from achieving wp:athlete-sanctioned notability would be so catastrophic as to warrant a good deal more coverage. Phil is a voice of reason here, and I'd recommend those disagreeing with him to think carefully about his arguments before trying to shoot him down in flames as an impostor. Flowerparty☀ 16:31, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
This subsection is not for discussing the AfD, or how the article got there, but what, if anything, the result means moving forward and what, if anything, the WikiProject should do in response
<ec with Flowerparty>Best solution would be for Fergie to pick the bloke on Saturday, which would end the debate. If he broke his leg in eight places tomorrow and quietly disappeared, never having played for United or any other club in a notable match, we're left with an awkward situation here.
Some questions:
I'd suggest that there are special circumstances for option 3. We've all wasted enough time on this already. This chap is one of a pair of twins, signed simultaneously. That's kind of curious and enough to spark a little more media interest. Yes, his brother is the better player and he probably enjoyed an uplift because of that, as well as the inherited notability from MUFC. But there's enough unusual stuff here for it not to need to be seen as a precedent. -- Dweller ( talk) 16:37, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest the following:
But I think the precedent here is that there are exceptional cases that resist automatic notability guidelines. The precedent is not that the general guideline is wrong - it's that ignoring the specifics (MUFC, the existence of the twin brother, the international work) is a mistake. The general guideline gives you a quick answer. But it does not finish the discussion. Phil Sandifer ( talk) 16:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I voted delete in the AfD, but I think this article was unusually well-sourced and far superior to any of the typical "permastub" articles created for players that fail WP:ATHLETE. This project gets accused of allowing too many "permastub" articles under WP:ATHLETE, but this is unlikely to be one of those. We should continue to try to purge the many new articles that fail WP:ATHLETE and contain only a sentence (and maybe an skeletal infobox). I don't view this AfD as having any precedential value in keeping those "permastubs" except when they are extremely well-sourced and deal with a player that has a very high profile. The unfortunate thing is WP:N is much more subjective than WP:ATHLETE, and discussions about which sources (and how many) satisfy WP:N are typically long and painful (like this one) - we should not give up on WP:ATHLETE. Best regards. Jogurney ( talk) 19:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
What does this AfD change? Not a lot, AfD is not case law. All parties probably agree that the player is on the fringes of notability, even if they disagree as to quite where that line lies. Playing in a youth international alone does not guarantee notability; examples abound of such players that never made it into the pro ranks. Being on the books at Manchester United does not guarantee notability; even some of the "Class of 92" disappeared into obscurity. I maintain that even stepping across the whitewash doesn't guarantee it, the coverage resulting from, say, a single injury time sub appearance rarely meets the description of sources that "address the subject directly in detail". But a variety of the above can sometimes result in an AfD keep. One line permastubs will continue to be given short shrift, debates will continue over longer articles, some of which will be kept. In the meantime, lets hope Fabio Pereira da Silva doesn't rupture his knee ligaments in training. Oldelpaso ( talk) 22:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes but you closed it as a keep, if there was an even split surely it should of been an no consensus closure, which would have avoided this discussion, added to the fact the article was re-created by an admin despite it failing 2 deletion reviews ...
as for the point about WP:ATHLETE and WP:MUSIC, we are talking about footballers in this project, so WP:MUSIC is irrelevant to the discussion Skitzo ( talk) 10:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
A musician or ensemble is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to change WP:ATHLETE to read:
A sportsperson is notable if he/she meets any one of the following criteria:
or something like that....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 10:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Judge each case on its merits and don't always be so desperate to delete stuff? Beve ( talk) 00:14, 27 December 2008 (UTC)