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Hello. I have a question coming from a specific example on the page I created of
Zerguinho Deira. Basically, this player made his debut for the Suriname senior team before playing for the Suriname U20 and Suriname U17 teams. My question is, in the infobox, is it appropriate to put the Suriname senior team first because it is the first one he played for, or is it appropriate to put it last, because it is the most senior team the player appeared for?
It would be nice to know what to do on this article, and I hope this can apply to this type of scenario in general.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 17:09, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we link "less-known" countries in the lede? @ Willbb234 argues we should link to the Ivory Coast for Amad Diallo ( diff), as "the Ivory Coast is small and relatively unknown so this link would be useful". Nehme1499 ( talk) 14:12, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
As many others state above, OVERLINK applies - which, in short, means no country names should be linked. Giant Snowman 17:59, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are usually not linked [...] The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar. This generally includes major examples of: countries (e.g., Japan/Japanese, Brazil/Brazilian), Yet as you said above how do we differentiate between major and minor? While you may say that all countries are major, I would counter that a majority of average readers of football-related pages probably don't know where are say Vanuatu, eSwatini, or Dominica. So we'd say link in those cases. Since we can't draw a line, we should IMO link all of the countries (and I think, as do you, that OVERLINK is wrong in this case). Also there is the case of Nigerien vs Nigerian as Jkudlick brought above. Another similar case could be Congolese vs. Congolese (for example Dieumerci Mbokani and Amour Loussoukou). Or another example Dominican vs. Dominican (for example Glenson Prince and Jonathan Faña). -- SuperJew ( talk) 07:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the argument that you can't draw a line which countries are major and which aren't... Giant Snowman 11:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have a question regarding the notability of the EFL Trophy. Of course, if two clubs from the EFL League One play each other in it, the game is considered fully-pro and a player that appears in it is considered notable enough for a Wikipedia article. The issue is with U21 sides of EPL/Championship clubs. If, say, Manchester United U21 play against Plymouth Argyle, the match is not considered fully-professional, right? Because I have found instances where players who have played in such games have Wikipedia articles (like Hannibal Mejbri for example.) Should this article be moved to draftspace for now? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I came across these two individuals named Ian Cameron. There are several people with that name, so Ian Cameron is a disambiguation page, but there are two who are involved with football (playing and then coaching, but to varying degrees). There is Ian Cameron (footballer) and Ian Cameron (association football coach). Ian Cameron (footballer) had a notable playing career over many years and is now a youth coach. Ian Cameron (association football coach) had a very limited playing career - one year at American fourth tier, before moving onto coaching, where he now coaches a fully professional club in the US. Should the latter be (footballer born 1988) because he did technically have a playing career, or is it fine as is? I think they are okay with their current dimambiguations, but figured I'd ask here anyways RedPatchBoy ( talk) 05:09, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
We really need a wider opinion on this one. (pinging involved users: @ Abudabanas, Kyopa, and BEN917:) REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 12:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Abdoulaye Dabo began his senior career at FC Nantes on 11 August 2018, playing 2 games. He was then sent to their B team, and made his debut on 15 September, playing there until 2021. Today, he was sent on loan (from Nantes) to Juventus, who sent him to their B team. Is the way the article is currently set up correct? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
For any expert in early English football, can anyone take a look at this guy to see if he's notable? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. What is the correct order to write the scoreline of a match? There are five different cases to write down scorelines of a match. A match either ends in a draw, a home win, or an away win (but since we write from the perspective of one team) there is also away loss, and home loss. The question is, what do we write for each?
1. For a draw, there is no issue, it is a draw in both cases and it's simple.
2. A home win is simple, we just say "they scored in a 5–0 win over Example United".
3. Now here is the tricky part. For an away win, do we say "he made his debut in a 2–0 win over Example United" or "he made his debut in a 0–2 win over Example United"? Or "he made his debut in a 2–0 away win over Example United" or "he made his debut in a 0–2 away win over Example United?
4. Same kind of issue for an away loss. Do we say "they scored in a 1–5 loss to Sample City FC", "they scored in a 5–1 loss to Sample City FC", "they scored in a 1–5 away loss to Sample City FC", or "they scored in a 5–1 away loss to Sample City FC"?
5. Lastly, there's the issue of a home loss. Do we say "made his debut in a 2–0 loss to Example FC", "made his debut in a 0–2 loss to Example FC", "made his debut in a 2–0 home loss to Example FC", or "made his debut in a 0–2 home loss to Example FC"?
Please answer 3, 4, and 5 individually. And please ping me. Thanks.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 17:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
@ ChrisTheDude: @ Nehme1499: @ Struway2: @ Robby.is.on: Do we agree that the inclusion of home/away after the score line is optional (as in, saying a 2–0 loss or a 2–0 home loss is the same?) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
A question from non-native English speaker: is it even correct to say "made debut in a win/loss"? Shouldn't it be "made debut in a match/game/tie/(1st) leg (which <his team> won")? -- BlameRuiner ( talk) 13:28, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Can someone who is an expert on early German football take a look at these newly-created pages?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I am struggling correcting the appearances/goals table, requesting some help to double check it out please. I think it's been oddly updated at times but some historical edits, but it's driving my head nuts trying to work out what's extra, missing, so can someone please help me. Thank you. Govvy ( talk) 15:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
How do you move or rename a category? Category:Montreal Impact should be renamed as the team has rebranded to CF Montréal. The subcategories as well. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Could someone please make the Western Sydney Wanderers 3rd kit to add to the season and club pages? WDM10 ( talk) 05:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Template:UEFA player doesn't work any more due to external website changes.
For example:
Anna Pilipenko: {{UEFA player|id=102815|name=Anna Pilipenko}}
:
Anna Pilipenko –
UEFA competition record (
archive) ... Sorry! That page doesn't exist... Please head back to the UEFA.com homepage.
The link is now https://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/teams/players/102815--anna-pilipenko/
I'm not sure how to fix the template to make it use the new link. – wbm1058 ( talk) 20:33, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Are the three articles located correctly? While the first two sound right, I don't think "South African footballer" is correct (I would put footballer, born 1994). Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:14, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
I wanted to reach out to the larger community with a question I've encountered several times. The page in question at the moment is that of Yunus Musah, an American-born player who has played for England at youth level but most recently played twice for the United States senior national team, but both matches were friendlies. Here's the confusion: He was born in New York, grew up in Italy, and moved to England when he was nine. Before playing for the United States, his footballing nationality was clearly English, even though he was born in the United States. But right now, he is an active player on the United States senior team, but he is not cap-tied. Through a series of edits, a consensus has been established that until he is cap-tied, a nationality would not be listed in the lede. But there is no consensus on which word to use to refer to the sport he plays. Some have edited the page to read "...is a professional footballer," while others have edited it to read "...is a professional association football player" and "...is a professional soccer player." The date format of the article is MDY, for what that's worth. I am simply seeking clarity on consensus from other players' pages, as I have seen an assortment of practices. I admit, though, that the majority of players who have most recently played for the United States but have otherwise ambiguous nationality are listed as "soccer players"—examples are, among others, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Julian Green, Danny Williams (soccer, born 1989), and Gedion Zelalem—which suggests to me that Musah, having been born in the United States and most recently represented the United States, even if not cap-tied, should be referred to using American English and thus as a "soccer player." I am open to any suggestions, however, as I haven't been able to find any kind of consensus on this. I appreciate your collective help. Anwegmann ( talk) 04:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I want to make clear that racism is a disgrace, but I want a descent discussion about it if it needs a section on football pages. I live in the Netherlands and there aren't pages there where the post this on Wiki pages from clubs. Because it is about de club. What they win, what they loose, the players etc. At the English page of FC Den Bosch there is a big part about a racism part. In a TALK 'discussion' and in the part you can fill in when you make changes to a page the only thing ONE person says is stuff like: The Dutch and English Wiki are different etc. There is no discussion possible. So that is the reason I want to hear/read it from other people on Wiki, what their opinion is about this. A descent discussion and not one person who decides everything. Greetings from the Netherlands :) DutchPJ ( talk) 10:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC+2)
about de club. What they win, what they loose, the players etc.Well, I've got to say if it's true Dutch articles do not cover racist incidents from fans, I'm very surprised. Fans are a major aspect of clubs and fan behaviour very much affects how clubs are perceived so their behaviour is absolutely relevant to the article – provided it is covered by reliable sources per WP:DUE.
Any admin want to sort out the edit-war here?? Govvy ( talk) 13:24, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Both editors warned for 3RR. If they pop up again let me know. I'll also semi-protect the article - no commentary on what the article should look like. Giant Snowman 15:37, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
We should rename this article:
Canada men's national football team. The title is ambiguous because the mentioned article is about American football.
(By the way, aren't you considering to add the word "men's" into association football article names, too?)
Maiō T. (
talk) 14:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi. The page List of Fulham F.C. players lists a James Smith who played for that team from 1909-1915. Unfortunately it links to the disambiguation page James Smith and I can not figure out if this person has a Wikipedia page and if yes, which one it is. Can someone help me identify this player? Lennart97 ( talk) 16:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
What to do about persistent pest editors (such as @ Beeney xx:) who refuse to use five tildes when updating infoboxes, causing confusion about stats? Giant Snowman 21:29, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
😛 Beeney xx ( talk) 23:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Confusion. hahahahahaha. Soooooooo confusion because I haven't added 17:39 or 23:09 for example! If that annoys you can't imagine how you'd react to a fork scrapping a clean swept plate! Beeney xx ( talk) 23:06, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Is there a particular example here? The most recent edit I saw by this user was updating Jürgen Locadia, which was inappropriate for a different reason (changing the club-update to today's date (16 January 2021) rather than the last played date (9 November 2020)). Is including the time more common on actively viewed players? I mainly edit American leagues so I don't see this problem very often. Jay eyem ( talk) 02:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
A timestamp at which the player's infobox club statistics are unambiguously correct. The bare date of the last match played should not be used because this is not unambiguous. Dates should use the same format as the rest of the article; use five tildes (~~~~~) to generate the current date/time in dmy format, or {{subst:mdytime}} for mdy format. The parameter is not needed if the player has retired.and therefore I think we should make every effort to educate users to do this. Gricehead ( talk) 10:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
A follow on from my previous request. In spite of assistance from Crowsus, Kyopa is continuing to edit war at the page. I am on 3RR and fed up. Help needed. REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 18:08, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
All of you need to stop edit warring and take this to the article talk page before you get blocked. Giant Snowman 21:31, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I have blocked @ Kyopa: from editing Greek Football Cup and List of Greek Cup finals for 48 hours, and told them to use this time to discuss the topic here, to reach consensus. If, after the 48 hours, they continue to edit disruptively, they will be blocked entirely. I suggest that @ REDMAN 2019, Crowsus, and Abudabanas: you assist them by clearly explaining why the article should remain as you wish. Giant Snowman 08:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
REDMAN 2019, Do not hope in me. You managed to punish me while you were cooperating with each other. The fact is clear. Two teams tried to win the cup. They did not succeed. What does this mean? That they failed (Runners up). It was not abandoned. The groups were punished. Like when they are zeroed in a match and their points are deducted. Anyone who can not understand this has a problem. I have none.-- Kyopa ( talk) 12:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Here is an article, from in.gr (date 26 June 2020, Nikos Velonakis) , [2] a website owned by Olympiacos president Evangelos Marinakis. Third paragraph translation: The Red-Whites (Olympiacos) have 27 wins on 39 final attempts with a 69.2% winning percentage (note that the 1962 final against Panathinaikos that was abandoned and not replayed is not included). This article was also re-posted on tanea.gr [3] and tovima.gr [4] (webites of newspapers ΤΑ ΝΕΑ and ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ, also owned by Olympiacos president Marinakis). Added this on Talk page too. Abudabanas ( talk) 14:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Giant Snowman, can you protect the Greek Football Cup and List of Greek Cup finals from Kyopa? We have a new story there. This is endless. It's never going to end. Never ever. Never. Abudabanas ( talk) 21:08, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
When starting an article, what type of verb should be used. User:Walter Görlitz and I disagree about this on Club de Foot Montréal. I believe it should be a case by case basis based on the situation. In this situation, I believe it should be CF Montreal IS a football club. whereas the other editor says that it should be CF Montreal ARE a football club. The latter sounds like incorrect grammar to me. If it was something like The New York Red Bulls then it would be Are, not when there is no The. There was a similar discussion previously here at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_136#The_or_no_The about this, while Walter says this Talk:Portland Timbers#Plural verb form for sports teams in American English argues for consensus to use "ARE", but I fail to see where a consensus was achieved there. Very few of the other MLS articles use ARE, the majority use IS. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 18:59, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
The use of plural verbs for sports teams with a plural nickname is a quirk of North American English that is an exception to the general use of singular verbs for a collective noun. It comes from dealing with the awkwardness of having a sentence constructed like "The New York Giants is…", which just plain grates to any ear. It's not the use of the definite article that makes the difference, it's the plural nickname. When only the nickname is used as a short form, the plural is also used. When only city/state is used as a short form, singular is used, like any collective noun (New York is). Same with the wording "the team is". (The pattern is true for both US and Canadian usage, as the use of nicknames for sports teams is typically the same. "The Montreal Alouettes play in the CFL." But "Montreal plays in Percival Molson Stadium.")
This is in contrast to British usage which treats collective names as plural at all times, so they'd say "New York are". That is incorrect in North American English, though, and tips off that the wrong ENGVAR is being followed. This is accounted for in MOS:PLURALS already.
The question is what happens when the team's formal name doesn't include a nickname, like New York City FC, or Toronto FC. They should be singular. There is no nickname triggering the use of a plural verb. It's not like "Montreal Alouettes", but like using just "Montreal" on its own. If I were writing about Toronto FC, I'd write "Toronto FC is…" just as I would write "Toronto is…" when referring to the club. If I were to use their nickname (the Reds), I would write "The Reds are…" just as I would for other plural nicknames. The only difference Eid that the plural nickname isn't part of the formal name of the club, so it doesn't modify the use of the verb tense for the full name. So, in conclusion, the current lead of the CF Montreal article is incorrect, as it's using a plural verb for a collective noun that is itself not plural in form, which is incorrect in Canadian English. oknazevad ( talk) 23:21, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
(imported from Talk:Portland_Timbers#And_again,_the_verb_is_"are"_in_the_lede)
(end of import)
Establishing a vote option for the following: Pinging @ Oknazevad:, @ Blaixx:, @ Walter Görlitz: and anyone else interested
Teams with ONLY a CF/FC/SC/City/United/etc before or after City name (ex. Toronto FC, CF Montreal, Real Salt Lake, DC United etc)
Teams with a Plural Nickname (ex. New York Red Bulls, Colorado Rapids, etc)
Teams with a Non-Plural Nickname (LA Galaxy/Philadelphia Union/NE Revolution/Montreal Impact)
Teams with a Nickname followed by an FC (ie. Seattle Sounders FC)
Thanks for making the changes. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 06:45, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I have an idea for a new template. The template would be for past team squads (like UEFA Champions League or top division winning teams). I want to know everyone's opinion on the concept
A prototype/early version can be found here on the Simple English Wikipedia, although that is using only the things we currently have there. ShadowBallX ( talk) 18:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am looking to make an article about the Championnat National U19. The thing is, I don't know what the notability criteria is for a league/competition, and I can't seem to find it on WP:NSPORTS. Can someone help me? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I proposed an article for splitting a few months ago but have only received two responses. Any chance of a couple of you chipping in with your thoughts so I can close the discussion? Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 19:52, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi. WP:FOOTY/Players currently states that career stats tables should use a single ref next to the updated template, but there are multiple other ways of referencing it, such as with Harry Kane, where seasons are referenced indivually in the seasons column, and Lars Bender, where they are referenced in a seperate column at the end. Personally, I don't have a problem with the first one but feel the second one looks quite clunky, and would rather it were avoided. I would like to know how other editors feel about these formats, and whether the MOS should be updated to reflect this. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 18:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I also posited this question on the talk page of this specific article, but not sure how much traffic that page has so wanted to bring up here as well. The official Supercup logo on TV screens and the badge that the players have on their kits, for the past couple of editions, has read as the season rather than a calendar year, i.e. "2019/2020" and "2020/2021". You can see the logo here for the match played today: https://www.mondocalcionews.it/coppe/supercoppa-italiana-2020-21-ecco-quanto-vale-il-trofeo-questanno/Mattia-Di-Battista/. Should we change the title of these articles to reflect that, i.e. 2020–21 Supercoppa Italiana instead of 2020 Supercoppa Italiana for this specific article? Similar to how the Supercopa de Espana has also changed to be played in January of the following year and is now formatted on Wiki as 2019–20 and 2020–21 instead of just simply 2019 or 2020. Thanks all. Rupert1904 ( talk) 21:59, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I know we established consensus that whatever team a player plays for first is the one listed first in the infobox (B team vs A team.) What I don't remember establishing consensus for was what was listed first when a player appears on the bench first. For example, Tim Template signs for Sample FC - he makes one bench appearance for the A team on 2 September, and then plays in a B team game on 9 September. What would be listed first? Sample FC A or Sample FC B? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:37, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I intend to create this page. This is a page about an Italian amateur competition. Is it suitable for Wikipedia? Dr Salvus ( talk) 10:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Dr Salvus Dr Salvus ( talk) 10:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Could I have an answer? Dr Salvus ( talk) 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Dr Salvus Dr Salvus ( talk) 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I came across a dilemma when editing
Rémy Descamps. He played matches for the PSG B team from 2015 to 2017. The thing is, he also made bench appearances during 2013 and 2014. The question is whether in the career statistics section, rows with 0s should be included for the 2013–14 and 2014–15 seasons, even though he didn't play on the field. And the question is whether this should be reflected in the infobox as well; should Paris Saint-Germain B in the infobox say 2013–2017 or 2015–17?
Now, there is also a second issue... Descamps's last bench/field appearance for the PSG B team is in 2017... does this mean we stop his PSG B team presence on 2017, or 2018, when that specific season ended (he was loaned out for the rest of that season)? Or 2019, when he was sold to Charleroi after being on loan during the rest of 2017–18 and 2018–19?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 19:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Alright, so let's say the senior career starts at the first official appearance. Fair enough. But in Descamps's case, where does his PSG B spell end? 2017 (last game)? 2018 (end of season of the last season he played in)? 2019 (when he was sold after being loaned out in second half of 2017-18 and full 2018-19)? I'd personally say 2017, and say that we end his PSG A career at 2019. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 21:25, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Apparently number of bench appearances are now important in deciding whether to put a line of zeros, but in cases where a player has made no bench appearances and spent the entire season out on loan it is automatic. Spike 'em ( talk) 18:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
In my opinion, loaning players specifically from the A team is a bit silly - this would contradict loan deals during youth career, which I have seen for some players. If we are going to say that a player cannot specifically sign for the B team or A team of a club, but signs for the organization itself, why can only the A team loan players out? The club itself loans players out. I don't want to create another lengthy argument, but I think that Moussa Sissako should not have the A team included. If someone explains why I am wrong, I'll listen. I would just like to know what to do, because this is starting to become really confusing. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to know when to include league categories (like for example Category:Ligue 2 players) in player articles. Of course, we include that category when a player appears in that league, but what if they play for a club in that league but never make an appearance? (My personal opinion is no, we would not include it, but that is just my thought.) Would it be reasonable? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:11, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I notice his managerial statistics table has been amended to exclude a game when he was in hospital with Covid-19. The verifying reference from Soccerbase includes this game as, presumably, Cotterill was still Shrewsbury manager at the time regardless of him being in hospital. There have been many instances of a manager being absent for a game or two and I don’t remember excluding those games from their stats. What’s the general view on if we include or exclude games where a manager is absent from the game itself?-- Egghead06 ( talk) 15:58, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Do we include club categories (like Category:Paris Saint-Germain F.C. players) for these different scenarios? I know its obvious we include it when a player plays in a match for the first team, but I would like to know if we include it for these cases.
1. Players that did not play in a match for the club, but were on the A team.
2. Players that played for the B team.
3. Players that played for the B team but did not make any (known) appearances.
4. Youth players.
Of course, this is assuming there is no category for the B team, which there is not for PSG, for example. Please answer each 1, 2, 3, and 4 individually. Thanks.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 15:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
How do I only display 5 teams in the table here? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo#Dollars, further input is required. Nehme1499 ( talk) 21:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
please revert infobox edit as it is still joint number 1 in structure — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.25.3 ( talk) 20:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
There are two clubs known as 'C.A. Fénix' - Centro Atlético Fénix in Uruguay (article currently located at C.A. Fénix) and Club Atlético Fénix in Argentina (article currently located at Club Atlético Fénix). The current article locations are clearly not good enough. There is also a disambiguation page at CA Fenix. I think that either we need:
What do you think is best? I will then start formal a RM. Giant Snowman 16:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Sakiv removed the "See also" section from 2021 WAFF Championship, I reverted him, he re-reverted me (violating WP:BRD). I restored the original version letting him know about BRD, he reverted me once again without any comment. I would rather not violate WP:3RR, so what's the correct course of action here? Nehme1499 ( talk) 20:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Sakiv should not have re-removed the section after he was reverted, per BRD, and instead you should have gone to the article talk page to discuss. Instead you're here after an edit war. Fine. What is the relevance/purpose of the 'see also' section? Giant Snowman 22:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
BRD is never a reason for reverting,
BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than onceand
BRD is not mandatory. So "violating BRD" is not a reason to revert. S.A. Julio ( talk) 22:22, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I know we have had this discussion before but, following on from a discussion here, I would like to reaffirm that the correct way to list national football team results is to use a table. The most resent discussion I can find which mentions this was about club season articles here but it didn't really go into too much detail. For background, I had created Argentina national football team results (2000–2019) as I was unaware Argentina national football team results (2000–19) had been created by @ Sakiv: as I was working through creating earlier results lists.
As national football team results articles list the results of national teams, they are subject to MOS:LIST so they should be constructed in a format which fits the established manual of style. There are a number of different acceptable styles but as these are standalone chronological lists, they also fall under WP:SAL which details a range of specialised lists. None of the specialised lists use a similar format to a list of football box templates and none of these include or could reasonably be expected to include sports results. However, under WP:WHENTABLE, sports results are specifically included as occasions when tables are most useful. I don't see why we should be deviating from this and using lists of football box templates. Football box templates are most useful in tournament articles when the match result is the most important piece of information and can then add things like goalscorers and stadia where this is required. The collapsible football box acts as a barrier to information by hiding it away which is contrary to WP:ACCESS. By using a table all, of the information is displayed in an equally - if not more - easy way to understand and follow without hiding information relevant to the article. As an example, Scotland national football team results (1872–1914) is a featured list. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 16:53, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have seen different things for different articles, which is why I would like to know what the correct way to do this is. Basically, when there is a sub-heading 2 for a loan in the club career section, is it appropriate to write "Marseille (loan)" or "Loan to Marseille"? I came across this issue on Arek Milik; there are some other weird sub headings there that I think an experienced football editor should check out. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 00:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I wrote the draft article Draft:Fabrizio Romano (journalist); you may know this guy as he’s pretty well-known in the football world. Anyways, I would like some advice and help on the article writing process. First of all, does this article meet GNG? I personally think it does, as it has several independent reliable sources that have significant coverage of the subject. If it needs more info and sources, I would greatly appreciate some help for the article. If someone is interested in writing more about Romano, then please help. Thank you. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:40, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Should Vladimir Molerovic and Demir Avdic be moved to Vladimir Molerović and Demir Avdić respectively? Nehme1499 ( talk) 16:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey. Do we include honours for assistant coaches? (My personal opinion: no.) I would just like to know if this was something we did. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 02:28, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes, this has already been discussed way too much.
An IP (78.1.24.0) has messaged me on my talk page telling me that the I-League will become the 2nd tier of Indian football starting from the 2021–22 season, using this website as a source.
As far as I can see, the article says: "starting with the 2022-’23 season, the winner of I-League will stand a chance to be promoted to the ISL" and "for the first three years (2019-’20, 2020-’21 and 2021-’22), there will continue to be no promotion and relegation in the ISL", which to me means that the winner of the 2022–23 season will go up and play in the 2023–24 ISL.
He insists that it's from the 2021–22 season. What's the situation? Tagging @ ArnabSaha as I remember him being an active editor in Indian football. Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
look... (to mention im close friend of indian national coach stimac and follow afc for years) this season 2 i league teams joined isl on money basis. also, this season is third since merger was mentioned and afc cup allowed i league spot 3 times till next season. furthermore, when next i league season page is created table will show "promotion to isl" on top 2 spors. as season is in two calendar years, it is clearly becoming second tier from 2021-22. other details like future promotion, one league, afc spots...are awaiting decisions but for next season thats confirmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.190.249 ( talk) 00:57, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
@saha afc cup 2022 and 2023 are different... and you should know from the moment next i league starts (21-22) table will show "promotion to isl" making it 2nd tier. few months till that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.81.30 ( talk) 15:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
I know Wakefield A.F.C. got away with having their article remain on Wikipedia recently, despite having never played in an FA cup competition or at Step 6, but are Sheffield Town F.C. really notable enough? I might start producing articles for all teams in the same league if so. Kivo ( talk) 13:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
new logo on media pages pls upload who can — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.81.30 ( talk) 04:35, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have seen some different articles refer to the football club A.C. Milan in the past few days. This issue came to me when I edited Sokratis Papastathopoulos - in the infobox here, it says "A.C. Milan". Personally, I think the best way is to write AC Milan, because just Milan could be confused with Inter Milan. Is there consensus on the correct way to write the club name? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi guys, a number of IPs (I think all from the same person) appear to be making disruptive edits to England player infoboxes such as Calum Chambers, Adam Lallana, Dominic Solanke and Nathaniel Clyne among others, claiming that their international careers have ended despite not provideing a source. A user account (Chedix, who has been blocked for the same on three occasions previously) is now involved as well (may be him behind the IPs also). Can someone have a look at this please. I've requested a protection from Calum Chambers as it's on my watchlist. Rugbyfan22 ( talk) 19:58, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone caught this this morning, but User:Strayacj seems to think that because the Millennium Stadium is owned and operated by the Welsh Rugby Union, it cannot be considered a football stadium by any means, and has thus removed it from the list of the largest stadiums in the Football in the United Kingdom article. Any thoughts on this? For my part, I would argue that the Millennium Stadium is definitely a football stadium even though that isn't its primary usage – it hosted FA Cup, League Cup and play-off finals while Wembley was being rebuilt, it hosted football matches at the 2012 Summer Olympics, it hosted the 2017 UEFA Champions League Final and as recently as 2018, it hosted a friendly between Wales and Spain. I struggle to see how anyone could claim it shouldn't be listed among football stadiums. – Pee Jay 13:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Please discuss at Talk:Football in the United Kingdom#Millennium Stadium and seek consensus. Giant Snowman 13:54, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
{{ 1975-76 kicker Bundesliga Team of the Season}} and similar, created by @ Lnhbm: - from what I can see these aren't official awards, just a magazine awards - and therefore surely overkill? Giant Snowman 19:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. When a player has never played international football, would it be appropriate to name the "Club career" section just "Career"? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I came across the article R. Charleroi S.C., a Belgian football club. Am I the only one that finds that the name of this article is a bit unusual? I mean, it is not often we see an initial instead of a name in the article. What I'm saying is that I suggest we move this article to Royal Charleroi S.C. or maybe Sporting Charleroi, because having "R. Charleroi" is awkward in my opinion. I didn't move it myself because I wanted to know if I was doing the right thing by moving this. What are your thoughts? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I think we should maybe revive the discussion at the Charleroi move? We need to make a decision at some point. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:14, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Good afternoon,
since its inception, this article has been all but improved and maintained by me, save the managerial statistic chart. Several years ago, i added a fourth paragraph in his playing career, which read "From 2008–09 onwards, Ferreira began having stiff competition from Brazilian Pedro Silva. This situation was aggravated from January 2010 onwards, after the purchase of Braga's João Pereira."
Last month, content was removed for not being written in proper English (i fail to see where, hence i come to this forum) and sourced. I re-inserted with two sources (this one backed paragraph until end of the first sentence https://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-nos/sporting/detalhe/determinacao-de-pedro-silva-premiada; this ref backed the rest https://expresso.pt/desporto/joao-pereira-o-novo-menino-bonito-do-sporting=f55794), it was removed again with summaries such as "back to good English". First article clearly mentions Mr. Silva "stole" Mr. Ferreira's starting job in the 2008/09 season, and the Expresso piece clearly speaks about both losing their position when Mr. Pereira arrived, in January 2010 which is the timeline i wrote.
My head is spinning like a dreidel trying to see where i went wrong, some inputs would be highly appreciated. Attentively, continue the good work y'all! Is it a matter of grammar or akin? Has to be, because content was sourced in my book. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 15:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
@ REDMAN 2019: I did not ping the other user involved not out of being discourteous, i was told at their talkpage i'm full of myself and to leave them alone. Which i did, coming here for further help.
@ Robby.is.on: and others, i'm retired, so i should not care less if Mr. Ferreira's article (or any other article for that matter) is improved or not. Strangely enough, i do. Robby, the Record newspaper article says Silva began starting over Ferreira at Sporting in the 2008/09 season, why do you say it does not? -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
I haven't looked again at the sources today, but the comment on my talk page explains my thinking - "But, to answer your point about the Abel Ferreira article, you didn't source it. The source did not say "from 2008-09 onwards" and it did not say anyone "faced stiff competition" or similar. You wanted it to say something that it didn't."
I considered it an example of an editor trying to insert a narrative that was not present in the sources. It would be good to get the thoughts of other editors.
// Hippo43 (
talk) 01:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Looking again at the Record source, it says (dated March 2009) that Pedro Silva had broken into the team and played 3 of the last 4 games, and that Abel had been on the bench. It obviously doesn't say "from 2008-09 onwards" as it was not writing about the following seasons. I don't think it says anything about "stiff competition" or any similar phrase. // Hippo43 ( talk) 02:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
The Expresso source only says that João Pereira went straight into the starting eleven, into the spot that Abel and Pedro Silva had held. It doesn't say anything about how often Abel subsequently played (if he got his place back, or played in another position, for example) or how much competition there was.
Again, this to me is trying to construct a narrative - it may be correct, but it doesn't appear in these sources.
// Hippo43 (
talk) 02:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
On Morgan Sanson, Mattythewhite reverted my edit. He says there should be no link from "Le Mans II" in the infobox to the main Le Mans FC article. I think there should be. Should we add link for II teams to the main team? (For French clubs, there are no II team articles I am aware of.) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 23:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
So, what's the conclusion? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
What would be more appropriate, "John Template scored his first goal for Templatonia in a 4–0 friendly win over Samplia", or "John Template scored his first goal for Templatonia in a 4–0 friendly match win over Samplia". (The difference is the inclusion or "match" after friendly.) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 16:06, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, I've just created Nerea Eizagirre but there is an issue in that her surname is spelled differently depending on which source you look at. La Liga, Mundo Deportivo, AS and Marca all use 'Eizagirre' and this is also the spelling used on her official Instagram and Twitter. Most English language sources I find, including UEFA and Soccerway, have the 'Eizaguirre' spelling. Would we use the spelling that the player herself uses or would we go with what the English-language media tends to use in this case? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 23:52, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am hoping for some input regarding the 2001 FIFA Club World Championship article. The tournament was cancelled just over two months before it was planned to begin, but the participants and match schedule had been confirmed by FIFA. For the last 15 years, the schedule has been listed on the article. Recently I decided to reformat the schedule using the standard {{ football box}} template, though Sportsfan 1234 has now removed the matches as they "never took place" and supposedly give a "false impression these matches happened" (despite the fact that the infobox, lead and matches note the cancellation). Even though the tournament was cancelled, I believe the information is still noteworthy to include, just as is done with other cancelled tournaments (for example 2020 CONCACAF Women's U-17 Championship) and walkovers (for example 2018 CAF Champions League qualifying rounds and 2020 AFC Cup qualifying play-offs). Thoughts? Also pinging BlameRuiner, who also restored the matches but was reverted. S.A. Julio ( talk) 19:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
I've seen different articles have different things: how would we link a particular season like "2016–17" in the career statistics section? Some articles have "2016–17 Templatonian Premier League" while some others have "2016–17 Sample FC season". What's the correct one? League or club season? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 22:43, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I don't want to start a whole debate, but here's the story: Yahia Fofana made his debut for Le Havre AC in 2019 (in the league cup), and we know that the senior career starts after the first appearance. The thing is, Fofana made 17 bench appearances during 2017–18. I'm pretty sure we said that a player's senior career only starts after the first appearance, but with 17 bench appearances in that season, it looks as if Fofana was clearly a member of the first team on this occasion. GS said that if it was only a GK filling in a few games on the bench it wasn't important, but 17 games for me indicates he was part of the first team. Anyways, I would just like to know if y'all thought it would be appropriate to write "2017–" or "2019–" for this specific example. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi, this is probably the third time I've raised this question here in last 12 months. Unfortunately, I haven't had enough replies regarding this. So I'd like to give it a third and final try! :)
Should we add Liga MX playoff matches (Liguilla till last season, Repechage + Liguilla this season) in infobox of a player? These playsoffs works just like the one in MLS, and not all teams in league can enter this stage. We don't add MLS playoff stats of a player in his infobox, so logically we should do the same here? I think we should add them under 'other' section in career stats, and not in infobox. (Soccerway however put them under league apps, but they do the same for all playoffs including the ones in Spain & Uruguay!)
I am not sure if we have reached a consensus on this before. Or else, I'd like to know your opinions on this topic. Thanks in advance! Kokoeist ( talk) 10:44, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Pinging @ GiantSnowman:, @ Nehme1499:, @ Mattythewhite:, @ RedPatchBoy: and @ Struway2: to know their opinions, as they are usually the most active editors here. Kokoeist ( talk) 05:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Could someone lend a hand at Ben Davies (footballer, born 1995)? DDP-Trooper1777 ( talk · contribs) is insisting that Davies has completed his transfer to Liverpool but isn't providing a source to confirm this, and as far as I can see there isn't any confirmation from Liverpool or Preston yet. Mattythewhite ( talk) 19:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
If clubs do not have articles on the English Wikipedia, do we either link to the club article on another Wikipedia, make a red link, or just leave a simple text? Geschichte is reverting on Cerezo Haabo. From editing patterns I've seen, we usually link to other Wikipedias if a page exists, and after that, we just leave as blank text, we never red link. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 13:58, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I would like to point out that I have created Wikipedia pages on Matteo Anzolin and Matías Soulé. They are in draft form as they have never made their debut in professional football. Please move the pages to the mainspace when they make their professional football debut. Dr Salvus ( talk) 15:07, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone here take a look at Eric Omondi Ongao? This stub is basically only sourced to this entry at National-Football-Teams.com, which describes 34 international matches for the Kenya national football team.
There are a few old articles with similar claims ( Bleacher Report and a Pittsburgh Riverhounds SC Press Release), but it's a bit odd that there is a dearth of higher quality sources for such claims. — MarkH21 talk 07:19, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
There's a bit of information about him as "Eric Omondi" in Kenyan sources but you need access to allafrica.com. Hack ( talk) 14:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
I know in the infobox, we include only league matches for the infobox, but was curious if it's the same for college stats (for Canadian/American college/university teams). Is it league matches only, or do playoff matches get included as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RedPatchBoy ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
@ RedPatchBoy and Nehme1499: Both of y'all have got to be more specific with "league matches" here. There's no such thing as "league matches" in American college soccer...there's conference and nonconference games, then there's the conference tournament, and then there's the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament (or the NCAA Division II Men's Soccer Championship or NCAA Division III Men's Soccer Championship). None of those distinctions matter, though, because all of the matches are treated as the same. To use JJ Williams as an example, take a look at the stats tab on his University of Kentucky profile. All four of those "types" of matches are included as the exact same.
Just from the quick bit of research I did, it seems like this is different in Canada, where there's a clear line between regular season and playoff matches...but in the United States, not so. Keskkonnakaitse ( talk) 19:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
I have not seen this often, but I was wondering: do we include "promotion" honours? I know we don't include 2nd place finishes in the top tier, but do we include an honour for being promoted as a 2nd place team?
And do we include an honour for winning the promotion/relegation play-offs?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 19:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
== Regional Italian Cups are notable? ==
In Italy there are regional cups that take place between 7th tier teams. There are sources needed to verify that the information is true, but I would like to know if it is notable and if pages about these competitions could be created on Wikipedia.
Dr Salvus (
talk) 15:04, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody protect this page from vandalism. There is a user who puts fake stats in infobox for years now. Thanks -- 2603:9000:6E0E:7FFD:0:0:0:812 ( talk) 16:56, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Let's say Tim Template plays for Sample City FC from 2033 to 2035. In the first season, the number of league appearances he makes is recorded: he makes a total of 8 league appearances. In the second season, the number of appearances is unknown. In this scenario, would we make the club appearances for Tim Template 8 or would we leave it blank?
Secondly, for the club total goals & apps: when we know all the stats, of course we add it, but when there is one club for which the player stats are missing, do we still have a total in the infobox? (Of course this is for after retirement.)
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 15:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
But GS, I had put a + on Oladapo Afolayan and you said to remove due to being incomplete. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:18, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
That's fair. I found partial stats for the missing season, but not complete. Should I add partial stats with a plus for the missing or is it better to just omit fully if not complete, I did the latter ? RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Alright, and guys, what about the "total"? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
@
Nehme1499: Thanks for saying yep. Just one thing, I wasn't sure if you also meant that adding the note (a) is appropriate or not.
And one last thing, would it be ok to add the total for when several clubs are missing like
Christian Zajaczkowski?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 22:39, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
In those stats tables, do we include only the games in which the manager was physically present on the bench, or do we include all team results since the date of official appointment regardless of who is actually on the bench during the match? For example, if the manager is appointed on 30 January 2021, but has to be quarantined for 10 days and therefore the assistant manager is in charge for 2-3 games, are those stats still included?
In sources, both soccerbase.com and footballdatabase.eu are using fully automated system so I dont know how reliable is that, i.e. all games since the date of appointment are automatically counted toward the manager, since they dont manually put managers in their match reports, only the players. Snowflake91 ( talk) 11:05, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
I bet some of the early secretary-managers were absent from games quite often, but we'd never find sources to prove it........ -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:55, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
If your comments take up one-third of the total text or you have replied to half the people who disagree with you, you are likely bludgeoning the process and should step back and let others express their opinions, as you have already made your points clear.
Spike 'em (
talk) 22:17, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Might be a long shot, but does anyone know if the George Collins who managed Gillingham in 1919-20 and the George Collins who managed Darlington in the 1930s are definitely the same man (as the LMA believe)? And if so, what he was doing in the intervening 13 years......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 14:35, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
A date for the postponed 2020 Copa del Rey Final has now been set (3 April). I see that has been added to Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad's 2019–20 season articles, and just wanted to seek consensus about that being the 'correct' location before it's played and any team and player stats get added. I had a look at the participants in the latter stages of the 2019–20 Scottish Cup to see how that was being shown, and found Celtic and Aberdeen have the results and stats in their 2019–20 article, but Hearts and Hibs have them in 2020–21. I don't really care which is preferred, but obviously it should be consistent. An earlier discussion, in fact more than one, on the Scottish player stats in the bio articles went the way of 2019–20 with a note (I haven't actually got round to checking all of the players involved but I will try to do so this week). The club articles will be more straightforward as long as everyone is aware of the community decision on it (fortunately none of the teams involved have played in the current Scottish Cup yet, so all stats displayed there at present are for the previous season). Therefore, pinging @ Jmorrison230582:, @ Davezo33:, @ Blethering Scot: and @ Celticbhoy97: who I believe are the main contributors to each of the Scottish articles, and @ SteveMc25: and @ Sakiv: who heavily contribute to both Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad, to keep you in the loop. Thanks. Crowsus ( talk) 03:31, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi. WP:AIV is very slow. 176.59.35.53 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been vandalising Vedat Muriqi. Can an admin @ GiantSnowman:, @ Mattythewhite:, …) please block them? They're clearly WP:NOTHERE. Kind regards, Robby.is.on ( talk) 12:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
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Hello. I have a question coming from a specific example on the page I created of
Zerguinho Deira. Basically, this player made his debut for the Suriname senior team before playing for the Suriname U20 and Suriname U17 teams. My question is, in the infobox, is it appropriate to put the Suriname senior team first because it is the first one he played for, or is it appropriate to put it last, because it is the most senior team the player appeared for?
It would be nice to know what to do on this article, and I hope this can apply to this type of scenario in general.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 17:09, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Do we link "less-known" countries in the lede? @ Willbb234 argues we should link to the Ivory Coast for Amad Diallo ( diff), as "the Ivory Coast is small and relatively unknown so this link would be useful". Nehme1499 ( talk) 14:12, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
As many others state above, OVERLINK applies - which, in short, means no country names should be linked. Giant Snowman 17:59, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are usually not linked [...] The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar. This generally includes major examples of: countries (e.g., Japan/Japanese, Brazil/Brazilian), Yet as you said above how do we differentiate between major and minor? While you may say that all countries are major, I would counter that a majority of average readers of football-related pages probably don't know where are say Vanuatu, eSwatini, or Dominica. So we'd say link in those cases. Since we can't draw a line, we should IMO link all of the countries (and I think, as do you, that OVERLINK is wrong in this case). Also there is the case of Nigerien vs Nigerian as Jkudlick brought above. Another similar case could be Congolese vs. Congolese (for example Dieumerci Mbokani and Amour Loussoukou). Or another example Dominican vs. Dominican (for example Glenson Prince and Jonathan Faña). -- SuperJew ( talk) 07:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree with the argument that you can't draw a line which countries are major and which aren't... Giant Snowman 11:08, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have a question regarding the notability of the EFL Trophy. Of course, if two clubs from the EFL League One play each other in it, the game is considered fully-pro and a player that appears in it is considered notable enough for a Wikipedia article. The issue is with U21 sides of EPL/Championship clubs. If, say, Manchester United U21 play against Plymouth Argyle, the match is not considered fully-professional, right? Because I have found instances where players who have played in such games have Wikipedia articles (like Hannibal Mejbri for example.) Should this article be moved to draftspace for now? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:26, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
I came across these two individuals named Ian Cameron. There are several people with that name, so Ian Cameron is a disambiguation page, but there are two who are involved with football (playing and then coaching, but to varying degrees). There is Ian Cameron (footballer) and Ian Cameron (association football coach). Ian Cameron (footballer) had a notable playing career over many years and is now a youth coach. Ian Cameron (association football coach) had a very limited playing career - one year at American fourth tier, before moving onto coaching, where he now coaches a fully professional club in the US. Should the latter be (footballer born 1988) because he did technically have a playing career, or is it fine as is? I think they are okay with their current dimambiguations, but figured I'd ask here anyways RedPatchBoy ( talk) 05:09, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
We really need a wider opinion on this one. (pinging involved users: @ Abudabanas, Kyopa, and BEN917:) REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 12:12, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Abdoulaye Dabo began his senior career at FC Nantes on 11 August 2018, playing 2 games. He was then sent to their B team, and made his debut on 15 September, playing there until 2021. Today, he was sent on loan (from Nantes) to Juventus, who sent him to their B team. Is the way the article is currently set up correct? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
For any expert in early English football, can anyone take a look at this guy to see if he's notable? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. What is the correct order to write the scoreline of a match? There are five different cases to write down scorelines of a match. A match either ends in a draw, a home win, or an away win (but since we write from the perspective of one team) there is also away loss, and home loss. The question is, what do we write for each?
1. For a draw, there is no issue, it is a draw in both cases and it's simple.
2. A home win is simple, we just say "they scored in a 5–0 win over Example United".
3. Now here is the tricky part. For an away win, do we say "he made his debut in a 2–0 win over Example United" or "he made his debut in a 0–2 win over Example United"? Or "he made his debut in a 2–0 away win over Example United" or "he made his debut in a 0–2 away win over Example United?
4. Same kind of issue for an away loss. Do we say "they scored in a 1–5 loss to Sample City FC", "they scored in a 5–1 loss to Sample City FC", "they scored in a 1–5 away loss to Sample City FC", or "they scored in a 5–1 away loss to Sample City FC"?
5. Lastly, there's the issue of a home loss. Do we say "made his debut in a 2–0 loss to Example FC", "made his debut in a 0–2 loss to Example FC", "made his debut in a 2–0 home loss to Example FC", or "made his debut in a 0–2 home loss to Example FC"?
Please answer 3, 4, and 5 individually. And please ping me. Thanks.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 17:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
@ ChrisTheDude: @ Nehme1499: @ Struway2: @ Robby.is.on: Do we agree that the inclusion of home/away after the score line is optional (as in, saying a 2–0 loss or a 2–0 home loss is the same?) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
A question from non-native English speaker: is it even correct to say "made debut in a win/loss"? Shouldn't it be "made debut in a match/game/tie/(1st) leg (which <his team> won")? -- BlameRuiner ( talk) 13:28, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Can someone who is an expert on early German football take a look at these newly-created pages?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
I am struggling correcting the appearances/goals table, requesting some help to double check it out please. I think it's been oddly updated at times but some historical edits, but it's driving my head nuts trying to work out what's extra, missing, so can someone please help me. Thank you. Govvy ( talk) 15:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
How do you move or rename a category? Category:Montreal Impact should be renamed as the team has rebranded to CF Montréal. The subcategories as well. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Could someone please make the Western Sydney Wanderers 3rd kit to add to the season and club pages? WDM10 ( talk) 05:42, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Template:UEFA player doesn't work any more due to external website changes.
For example:
Anna Pilipenko: {{UEFA player|id=102815|name=Anna Pilipenko}}
:
Anna Pilipenko –
UEFA competition record (
archive) ... Sorry! That page doesn't exist... Please head back to the UEFA.com homepage.
The link is now https://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/teams/players/102815--anna-pilipenko/
I'm not sure how to fix the template to make it use the new link. – wbm1058 ( talk) 20:33, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Are the three articles located correctly? While the first two sound right, I don't think "South African footballer" is correct (I would put footballer, born 1994). Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:14, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
I wanted to reach out to the larger community with a question I've encountered several times. The page in question at the moment is that of Yunus Musah, an American-born player who has played for England at youth level but most recently played twice for the United States senior national team, but both matches were friendlies. Here's the confusion: He was born in New York, grew up in Italy, and moved to England when he was nine. Before playing for the United States, his footballing nationality was clearly English, even though he was born in the United States. But right now, he is an active player on the United States senior team, but he is not cap-tied. Through a series of edits, a consensus has been established that until he is cap-tied, a nationality would not be listed in the lede. But there is no consensus on which word to use to refer to the sport he plays. Some have edited the page to read "...is a professional footballer," while others have edited it to read "...is a professional association football player" and "...is a professional soccer player." The date format of the article is MDY, for what that's worth. I am simply seeking clarity on consensus from other players' pages, as I have seen an assortment of practices. I admit, though, that the majority of players who have most recently played for the United States but have otherwise ambiguous nationality are listed as "soccer players"—examples are, among others, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Julian Green, Danny Williams (soccer, born 1989), and Gedion Zelalem—which suggests to me that Musah, having been born in the United States and most recently represented the United States, even if not cap-tied, should be referred to using American English and thus as a "soccer player." I am open to any suggestions, however, as I haven't been able to find any kind of consensus on this. I appreciate your collective help. Anwegmann ( talk) 04:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I want to make clear that racism is a disgrace, but I want a descent discussion about it if it needs a section on football pages. I live in the Netherlands and there aren't pages there where the post this on Wiki pages from clubs. Because it is about de club. What they win, what they loose, the players etc. At the English page of FC Den Bosch there is a big part about a racism part. In a TALK 'discussion' and in the part you can fill in when you make changes to a page the only thing ONE person says is stuff like: The Dutch and English Wiki are different etc. There is no discussion possible. So that is the reason I want to hear/read it from other people on Wiki, what their opinion is about this. A descent discussion and not one person who decides everything. Greetings from the Netherlands :) DutchPJ ( talk) 10:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC+2)
about de club. What they win, what they loose, the players etc.Well, I've got to say if it's true Dutch articles do not cover racist incidents from fans, I'm very surprised. Fans are a major aspect of clubs and fan behaviour very much affects how clubs are perceived so their behaviour is absolutely relevant to the article – provided it is covered by reliable sources per WP:DUE.
Any admin want to sort out the edit-war here?? Govvy ( talk) 13:24, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Both editors warned for 3RR. If they pop up again let me know. I'll also semi-protect the article - no commentary on what the article should look like. Giant Snowman 15:37, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
We should rename this article:
Canada men's national football team. The title is ambiguous because the mentioned article is about American football.
(By the way, aren't you considering to add the word "men's" into association football article names, too?)
Maiō T. (
talk) 14:15, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi. The page List of Fulham F.C. players lists a James Smith who played for that team from 1909-1915. Unfortunately it links to the disambiguation page James Smith and I can not figure out if this person has a Wikipedia page and if yes, which one it is. Can someone help me identify this player? Lennart97 ( talk) 16:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
What to do about persistent pest editors (such as @ Beeney xx:) who refuse to use five tildes when updating infoboxes, causing confusion about stats? Giant Snowman 21:29, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
😛 Beeney xx ( talk) 23:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Confusion. hahahahahaha. Soooooooo confusion because I haven't added 17:39 or 23:09 for example! If that annoys you can't imagine how you'd react to a fork scrapping a clean swept plate! Beeney xx ( talk) 23:06, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Is there a particular example here? The most recent edit I saw by this user was updating Jürgen Locadia, which was inappropriate for a different reason (changing the club-update to today's date (16 January 2021) rather than the last played date (9 November 2020)). Is including the time more common on actively viewed players? I mainly edit American leagues so I don't see this problem very often. Jay eyem ( talk) 02:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
A timestamp at which the player's infobox club statistics are unambiguously correct. The bare date of the last match played should not be used because this is not unambiguous. Dates should use the same format as the rest of the article; use five tildes (~~~~~) to generate the current date/time in dmy format, or {{subst:mdytime}} for mdy format. The parameter is not needed if the player has retired.and therefore I think we should make every effort to educate users to do this. Gricehead ( talk) 10:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
A follow on from my previous request. In spite of assistance from Crowsus, Kyopa is continuing to edit war at the page. I am on 3RR and fed up. Help needed. REDMAN 2019 ( talk) 18:08, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
All of you need to stop edit warring and take this to the article talk page before you get blocked. Giant Snowman 21:31, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I have blocked @ Kyopa: from editing Greek Football Cup and List of Greek Cup finals for 48 hours, and told them to use this time to discuss the topic here, to reach consensus. If, after the 48 hours, they continue to edit disruptively, they will be blocked entirely. I suggest that @ REDMAN 2019, Crowsus, and Abudabanas: you assist them by clearly explaining why the article should remain as you wish. Giant Snowman 08:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
REDMAN 2019, Do not hope in me. You managed to punish me while you were cooperating with each other. The fact is clear. Two teams tried to win the cup. They did not succeed. What does this mean? That they failed (Runners up). It was not abandoned. The groups were punished. Like when they are zeroed in a match and their points are deducted. Anyone who can not understand this has a problem. I have none.-- Kyopa ( talk) 12:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Here is an article, from in.gr (date 26 June 2020, Nikos Velonakis) , [2] a website owned by Olympiacos president Evangelos Marinakis. Third paragraph translation: The Red-Whites (Olympiacos) have 27 wins on 39 final attempts with a 69.2% winning percentage (note that the 1962 final against Panathinaikos that was abandoned and not replayed is not included). This article was also re-posted on tanea.gr [3] and tovima.gr [4] (webites of newspapers ΤΑ ΝΕΑ and ΤΟ ΒΗΜΑ, also owned by Olympiacos president Marinakis). Added this on Talk page too. Abudabanas ( talk) 14:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Giant Snowman, can you protect the Greek Football Cup and List of Greek Cup finals from Kyopa? We have a new story there. This is endless. It's never going to end. Never ever. Never. Abudabanas ( talk) 21:08, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
When starting an article, what type of verb should be used. User:Walter Görlitz and I disagree about this on Club de Foot Montréal. I believe it should be a case by case basis based on the situation. In this situation, I believe it should be CF Montreal IS a football club. whereas the other editor says that it should be CF Montreal ARE a football club. The latter sounds like incorrect grammar to me. If it was something like The New York Red Bulls then it would be Are, not when there is no The. There was a similar discussion previously here at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_136#The_or_no_The about this, while Walter says this Talk:Portland Timbers#Plural verb form for sports teams in American English argues for consensus to use "ARE", but I fail to see where a consensus was achieved there. Very few of the other MLS articles use ARE, the majority use IS. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 18:59, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
The use of plural verbs for sports teams with a plural nickname is a quirk of North American English that is an exception to the general use of singular verbs for a collective noun. It comes from dealing with the awkwardness of having a sentence constructed like "The New York Giants is…", which just plain grates to any ear. It's not the use of the definite article that makes the difference, it's the plural nickname. When only the nickname is used as a short form, the plural is also used. When only city/state is used as a short form, singular is used, like any collective noun (New York is). Same with the wording "the team is". (The pattern is true for both US and Canadian usage, as the use of nicknames for sports teams is typically the same. "The Montreal Alouettes play in the CFL." But "Montreal plays in Percival Molson Stadium.")
This is in contrast to British usage which treats collective names as plural at all times, so they'd say "New York are". That is incorrect in North American English, though, and tips off that the wrong ENGVAR is being followed. This is accounted for in MOS:PLURALS already.
The question is what happens when the team's formal name doesn't include a nickname, like New York City FC, or Toronto FC. They should be singular. There is no nickname triggering the use of a plural verb. It's not like "Montreal Alouettes", but like using just "Montreal" on its own. If I were writing about Toronto FC, I'd write "Toronto FC is…" just as I would write "Toronto is…" when referring to the club. If I were to use their nickname (the Reds), I would write "The Reds are…" just as I would for other plural nicknames. The only difference Eid that the plural nickname isn't part of the formal name of the club, so it doesn't modify the use of the verb tense for the full name. So, in conclusion, the current lead of the CF Montreal article is incorrect, as it's using a plural verb for a collective noun that is itself not plural in form, which is incorrect in Canadian English. oknazevad ( talk) 23:21, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
(imported from Talk:Portland_Timbers#And_again,_the_verb_is_"are"_in_the_lede)
(end of import)
Establishing a vote option for the following: Pinging @ Oknazevad:, @ Blaixx:, @ Walter Görlitz: and anyone else interested
Teams with ONLY a CF/FC/SC/City/United/etc before or after City name (ex. Toronto FC, CF Montreal, Real Salt Lake, DC United etc)
Teams with a Plural Nickname (ex. New York Red Bulls, Colorado Rapids, etc)
Teams with a Non-Plural Nickname (LA Galaxy/Philadelphia Union/NE Revolution/Montreal Impact)
Teams with a Nickname followed by an FC (ie. Seattle Sounders FC)
Thanks for making the changes. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 06:45, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I have an idea for a new template. The template would be for past team squads (like UEFA Champions League or top division winning teams). I want to know everyone's opinion on the concept
A prototype/early version can be found here on the Simple English Wikipedia, although that is using only the things we currently have there. ShadowBallX ( talk) 18:18, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am looking to make an article about the Championnat National U19. The thing is, I don't know what the notability criteria is for a league/competition, and I can't seem to find it on WP:NSPORTS. Can someone help me? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:23, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I proposed an article for splitting a few months ago but have only received two responses. Any chance of a couple of you chipping in with your thoughts so I can close the discussion? Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 19:52, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi. WP:FOOTY/Players currently states that career stats tables should use a single ref next to the updated template, but there are multiple other ways of referencing it, such as with Harry Kane, where seasons are referenced indivually in the seasons column, and Lars Bender, where they are referenced in a seperate column at the end. Personally, I don't have a problem with the first one but feel the second one looks quite clunky, and would rather it were avoided. I would like to know how other editors feel about these formats, and whether the MOS should be updated to reflect this. Microwave Anarchist ( talk) 18:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I also posited this question on the talk page of this specific article, but not sure how much traffic that page has so wanted to bring up here as well. The official Supercup logo on TV screens and the badge that the players have on their kits, for the past couple of editions, has read as the season rather than a calendar year, i.e. "2019/2020" and "2020/2021". You can see the logo here for the match played today: https://www.mondocalcionews.it/coppe/supercoppa-italiana-2020-21-ecco-quanto-vale-il-trofeo-questanno/Mattia-Di-Battista/. Should we change the title of these articles to reflect that, i.e. 2020–21 Supercoppa Italiana instead of 2020 Supercoppa Italiana for this specific article? Similar to how the Supercopa de Espana has also changed to be played in January of the following year and is now formatted on Wiki as 2019–20 and 2020–21 instead of just simply 2019 or 2020. Thanks all. Rupert1904 ( talk) 21:59, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I know we established consensus that whatever team a player plays for first is the one listed first in the infobox (B team vs A team.) What I don't remember establishing consensus for was what was listed first when a player appears on the bench first. For example, Tim Template signs for Sample FC - he makes one bench appearance for the A team on 2 September, and then plays in a B team game on 9 September. What would be listed first? Sample FC A or Sample FC B? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:37, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I intend to create this page. This is a page about an Italian amateur competition. Is it suitable for Wikipedia? Dr Salvus ( talk) 10:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Dr Salvus Dr Salvus ( talk) 10:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Could I have an answer? Dr Salvus ( talk) 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Dr Salvus Dr Salvus ( talk) 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I came across a dilemma when editing
Rémy Descamps. He played matches for the PSG B team from 2015 to 2017. The thing is, he also made bench appearances during 2013 and 2014. The question is whether in the career statistics section, rows with 0s should be included for the 2013–14 and 2014–15 seasons, even though he didn't play on the field. And the question is whether this should be reflected in the infobox as well; should Paris Saint-Germain B in the infobox say 2013–2017 or 2015–17?
Now, there is also a second issue... Descamps's last bench/field appearance for the PSG B team is in 2017... does this mean we stop his PSG B team presence on 2017, or 2018, when that specific season ended (he was loaned out for the rest of that season)? Or 2019, when he was sold to Charleroi after being on loan during the rest of 2017–18 and 2018–19?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 19:46, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Alright, so let's say the senior career starts at the first official appearance. Fair enough. But in Descamps's case, where does his PSG B spell end? 2017 (last game)? 2018 (end of season of the last season he played in)? 2019 (when he was sold after being loaned out in second half of 2017-18 and full 2018-19)? I'd personally say 2017, and say that we end his PSG A career at 2019. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 21:25, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Apparently number of bench appearances are now important in deciding whether to put a line of zeros, but in cases where a player has made no bench appearances and spent the entire season out on loan it is automatic. Spike 'em ( talk) 18:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
In my opinion, loaning players specifically from the A team is a bit silly - this would contradict loan deals during youth career, which I have seen for some players. If we are going to say that a player cannot specifically sign for the B team or A team of a club, but signs for the organization itself, why can only the A team loan players out? The club itself loans players out. I don't want to create another lengthy argument, but I think that Moussa Sissako should not have the A team included. If someone explains why I am wrong, I'll listen. I would just like to know what to do, because this is starting to become really confusing. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to know when to include league categories (like for example Category:Ligue 2 players) in player articles. Of course, we include that category when a player appears in that league, but what if they play for a club in that league but never make an appearance? (My personal opinion is no, we would not include it, but that is just my thought.) Would it be reasonable? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:11, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I notice his managerial statistics table has been amended to exclude a game when he was in hospital with Covid-19. The verifying reference from Soccerbase includes this game as, presumably, Cotterill was still Shrewsbury manager at the time regardless of him being in hospital. There have been many instances of a manager being absent for a game or two and I don’t remember excluding those games from their stats. What’s the general view on if we include or exclude games where a manager is absent from the game itself?-- Egghead06 ( talk) 15:58, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. Do we include club categories (like Category:Paris Saint-Germain F.C. players) for these different scenarios? I know its obvious we include it when a player plays in a match for the first team, but I would like to know if we include it for these cases.
1. Players that did not play in a match for the club, but were on the A team.
2. Players that played for the B team.
3. Players that played for the B team but did not make any (known) appearances.
4. Youth players.
Of course, this is assuming there is no category for the B team, which there is not for PSG, for example. Please answer each 1, 2, 3, and 4 individually. Thanks.
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 15:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
How do I only display 5 teams in the table here? Nehme1499 ( talk) 18:28, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Cristiano Ronaldo#Dollars, further input is required. Nehme1499 ( talk) 21:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
please revert infobox edit as it is still joint number 1 in structure — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.25.3 ( talk) 20:19, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
There are two clubs known as 'C.A. Fénix' - Centro Atlético Fénix in Uruguay (article currently located at C.A. Fénix) and Club Atlético Fénix in Argentina (article currently located at Club Atlético Fénix). The current article locations are clearly not good enough. There is also a disambiguation page at CA Fenix. I think that either we need:
What do you think is best? I will then start formal a RM. Giant Snowman 16:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Sakiv removed the "See also" section from 2021 WAFF Championship, I reverted him, he re-reverted me (violating WP:BRD). I restored the original version letting him know about BRD, he reverted me once again without any comment. I would rather not violate WP:3RR, so what's the correct course of action here? Nehme1499 ( talk) 20:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Sakiv should not have re-removed the section after he was reverted, per BRD, and instead you should have gone to the article talk page to discuss. Instead you're here after an edit war. Fine. What is the relevance/purpose of the 'see also' section? Giant Snowman 22:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
BRD is never a reason for reverting,
BRD is not an excuse to revert any change more than onceand
BRD is not mandatory. So "violating BRD" is not a reason to revert. S.A. Julio ( talk) 22:22, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I know we have had this discussion before but, following on from a discussion here, I would like to reaffirm that the correct way to list national football team results is to use a table. The most resent discussion I can find which mentions this was about club season articles here but it didn't really go into too much detail. For background, I had created Argentina national football team results (2000–2019) as I was unaware Argentina national football team results (2000–19) had been created by @ Sakiv: as I was working through creating earlier results lists.
As national football team results articles list the results of national teams, they are subject to MOS:LIST so they should be constructed in a format which fits the established manual of style. There are a number of different acceptable styles but as these are standalone chronological lists, they also fall under WP:SAL which details a range of specialised lists. None of the specialised lists use a similar format to a list of football box templates and none of these include or could reasonably be expected to include sports results. However, under WP:WHENTABLE, sports results are specifically included as occasions when tables are most useful. I don't see why we should be deviating from this and using lists of football box templates. Football box templates are most useful in tournament articles when the match result is the most important piece of information and can then add things like goalscorers and stadia where this is required. The collapsible football box acts as a barrier to information by hiding it away which is contrary to WP:ACCESS. By using a table all, of the information is displayed in an equally - if not more - easy way to understand and follow without hiding information relevant to the article. As an example, Scotland national football team results (1872–1914) is a featured list. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 16:53, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have seen different things for different articles, which is why I would like to know what the correct way to do this is. Basically, when there is a sub-heading 2 for a loan in the club career section, is it appropriate to write "Marseille (loan)" or "Loan to Marseille"? I came across this issue on Arek Milik; there are some other weird sub headings there that I think an experienced football editor should check out. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 00:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I wrote the draft article Draft:Fabrizio Romano (journalist); you may know this guy as he’s pretty well-known in the football world. Anyways, I would like some advice and help on the article writing process. First of all, does this article meet GNG? I personally think it does, as it has several independent reliable sources that have significant coverage of the subject. If it needs more info and sources, I would greatly appreciate some help for the article. If someone is interested in writing more about Romano, then please help. Thank you. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:40, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Should Vladimir Molerovic and Demir Avdic be moved to Vladimir Molerović and Demir Avdić respectively? Nehme1499 ( talk) 16:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Hey. Do we include honours for assistant coaches? (My personal opinion: no.) I would just like to know if this was something we did. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 02:28, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes, this has already been discussed way too much.
An IP (78.1.24.0) has messaged me on my talk page telling me that the I-League will become the 2nd tier of Indian football starting from the 2021–22 season, using this website as a source.
As far as I can see, the article says: "starting with the 2022-’23 season, the winner of I-League will stand a chance to be promoted to the ISL" and "for the first three years (2019-’20, 2020-’21 and 2021-’22), there will continue to be no promotion and relegation in the ISL", which to me means that the winner of the 2022–23 season will go up and play in the 2023–24 ISL.
He insists that it's from the 2021–22 season. What's the situation? Tagging @ ArnabSaha as I remember him being an active editor in Indian football. Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
look... (to mention im close friend of indian national coach stimac and follow afc for years) this season 2 i league teams joined isl on money basis. also, this season is third since merger was mentioned and afc cup allowed i league spot 3 times till next season. furthermore, when next i league season page is created table will show "promotion to isl" on top 2 spors. as season is in two calendar years, it is clearly becoming second tier from 2021-22. other details like future promotion, one league, afc spots...are awaiting decisions but for next season thats confirmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.190.249 ( talk) 00:57, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
@saha afc cup 2022 and 2023 are different... and you should know from the moment next i league starts (21-22) table will show "promotion to isl" making it 2nd tier. few months till that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.81.30 ( talk) 15:00, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
I know Wakefield A.F.C. got away with having their article remain on Wikipedia recently, despite having never played in an FA cup competition or at Step 6, but are Sheffield Town F.C. really notable enough? I might start producing articles for all teams in the same league if so. Kivo ( talk) 13:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
new logo on media pages pls upload who can — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.143.81.30 ( talk) 04:35, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I have seen some different articles refer to the football club A.C. Milan in the past few days. This issue came to me when I edited Sokratis Papastathopoulos - in the infobox here, it says "A.C. Milan". Personally, I think the best way is to write AC Milan, because just Milan could be confused with Inter Milan. Is there consensus on the correct way to write the club name? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi guys, a number of IPs (I think all from the same person) appear to be making disruptive edits to England player infoboxes such as Calum Chambers, Adam Lallana, Dominic Solanke and Nathaniel Clyne among others, claiming that their international careers have ended despite not provideing a source. A user account (Chedix, who has been blocked for the same on three occasions previously) is now involved as well (may be him behind the IPs also). Can someone have a look at this please. I've requested a protection from Calum Chambers as it's on my watchlist. Rugbyfan22 ( talk) 19:58, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone caught this this morning, but User:Strayacj seems to think that because the Millennium Stadium is owned and operated by the Welsh Rugby Union, it cannot be considered a football stadium by any means, and has thus removed it from the list of the largest stadiums in the Football in the United Kingdom article. Any thoughts on this? For my part, I would argue that the Millennium Stadium is definitely a football stadium even though that isn't its primary usage – it hosted FA Cup, League Cup and play-off finals while Wembley was being rebuilt, it hosted football matches at the 2012 Summer Olympics, it hosted the 2017 UEFA Champions League Final and as recently as 2018, it hosted a friendly between Wales and Spain. I struggle to see how anyone could claim it shouldn't be listed among football stadiums. – Pee Jay 13:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Please discuss at Talk:Football in the United Kingdom#Millennium Stadium and seek consensus. Giant Snowman 13:54, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
{{ 1975-76 kicker Bundesliga Team of the Season}} and similar, created by @ Lnhbm: - from what I can see these aren't official awards, just a magazine awards - and therefore surely overkill? Giant Snowman 19:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. When a player has never played international football, would it be appropriate to name the "Club career" section just "Career"? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 14:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I came across the article R. Charleroi S.C., a Belgian football club. Am I the only one that finds that the name of this article is a bit unusual? I mean, it is not often we see an initial instead of a name in the article. What I'm saying is that I suggest we move this article to Royal Charleroi S.C. or maybe Sporting Charleroi, because having "R. Charleroi" is awkward in my opinion. I didn't move it myself because I wanted to know if I was doing the right thing by moving this. What are your thoughts? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I think we should maybe revive the discussion at the Charleroi move? We need to make a decision at some point. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 15:14, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Good afternoon,
since its inception, this article has been all but improved and maintained by me, save the managerial statistic chart. Several years ago, i added a fourth paragraph in his playing career, which read "From 2008–09 onwards, Ferreira began having stiff competition from Brazilian Pedro Silva. This situation was aggravated from January 2010 onwards, after the purchase of Braga's João Pereira."
Last month, content was removed for not being written in proper English (i fail to see where, hence i come to this forum) and sourced. I re-inserted with two sources (this one backed paragraph until end of the first sentence https://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-nos/sporting/detalhe/determinacao-de-pedro-silva-premiada; this ref backed the rest https://expresso.pt/desporto/joao-pereira-o-novo-menino-bonito-do-sporting=f55794), it was removed again with summaries such as "back to good English". First article clearly mentions Mr. Silva "stole" Mr. Ferreira's starting job in the 2008/09 season, and the Expresso piece clearly speaks about both losing their position when Mr. Pereira arrived, in January 2010 which is the timeline i wrote.
My head is spinning like a dreidel trying to see where i went wrong, some inputs would be highly appreciated. Attentively, continue the good work y'all! Is it a matter of grammar or akin? Has to be, because content was sourced in my book. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 15:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
@ REDMAN 2019: I did not ping the other user involved not out of being discourteous, i was told at their talkpage i'm full of myself and to leave them alone. Which i did, coming here for further help.
@ Robby.is.on: and others, i'm retired, so i should not care less if Mr. Ferreira's article (or any other article for that matter) is improved or not. Strangely enough, i do. Robby, the Record newspaper article says Silva began starting over Ferreira at Sporting in the 2008/09 season, why do you say it does not? -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
I haven't looked again at the sources today, but the comment on my talk page explains my thinking - "But, to answer your point about the Abel Ferreira article, you didn't source it. The source did not say "from 2008-09 onwards" and it did not say anyone "faced stiff competition" or similar. You wanted it to say something that it didn't."
I considered it an example of an editor trying to insert a narrative that was not present in the sources. It would be good to get the thoughts of other editors.
// Hippo43 (
talk) 01:40, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Looking again at the Record source, it says (dated March 2009) that Pedro Silva had broken into the team and played 3 of the last 4 games, and that Abel had been on the bench. It obviously doesn't say "from 2008-09 onwards" as it was not writing about the following seasons. I don't think it says anything about "stiff competition" or any similar phrase. // Hippo43 ( talk) 02:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
The Expresso source only says that João Pereira went straight into the starting eleven, into the spot that Abel and Pedro Silva had held. It doesn't say anything about how often Abel subsequently played (if he got his place back, or played in another position, for example) or how much competition there was.
Again, this to me is trying to construct a narrative - it may be correct, but it doesn't appear in these sources.
// Hippo43 (
talk) 02:15, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
On Morgan Sanson, Mattythewhite reverted my edit. He says there should be no link from "Le Mans II" in the infobox to the main Le Mans FC article. I think there should be. Should we add link for II teams to the main team? (For French clubs, there are no II team articles I am aware of.) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 23:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
So, what's the conclusion? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 19:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
What would be more appropriate, "John Template scored his first goal for Templatonia in a 4–0 friendly win over Samplia", or "John Template scored his first goal for Templatonia in a 4–0 friendly match win over Samplia". (The difference is the inclusion or "match" after friendly.) Paul Vaurie ( talk) 16:06, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi all, I've just created Nerea Eizagirre but there is an issue in that her surname is spelled differently depending on which source you look at. La Liga, Mundo Deportivo, AS and Marca all use 'Eizagirre' and this is also the spelling used on her official Instagram and Twitter. Most English language sources I find, including UEFA and Soccerway, have the 'Eizaguirre' spelling. Would we use the spelling that the player herself uses or would we go with what the English-language media tends to use in this case? Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 23:52, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, I am hoping for some input regarding the 2001 FIFA Club World Championship article. The tournament was cancelled just over two months before it was planned to begin, but the participants and match schedule had been confirmed by FIFA. For the last 15 years, the schedule has been listed on the article. Recently I decided to reformat the schedule using the standard {{ football box}} template, though Sportsfan 1234 has now removed the matches as they "never took place" and supposedly give a "false impression these matches happened" (despite the fact that the infobox, lead and matches note the cancellation). Even though the tournament was cancelled, I believe the information is still noteworthy to include, just as is done with other cancelled tournaments (for example 2020 CONCACAF Women's U-17 Championship) and walkovers (for example 2018 CAF Champions League qualifying rounds and 2020 AFC Cup qualifying play-offs). Thoughts? Also pinging BlameRuiner, who also restored the matches but was reverted. S.A. Julio ( talk) 19:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
I've seen different articles have different things: how would we link a particular season like "2016–17" in the career statistics section? Some articles have "2016–17 Templatonian Premier League" while some others have "2016–17 Sample FC season". What's the correct one? League or club season? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 22:43, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello. I don't want to start a whole debate, but here's the story: Yahia Fofana made his debut for Le Havre AC in 2019 (in the league cup), and we know that the senior career starts after the first appearance. The thing is, Fofana made 17 bench appearances during 2017–18. I'm pretty sure we said that a player's senior career only starts after the first appearance, but with 17 bench appearances in that season, it looks as if Fofana was clearly a member of the first team on this occasion. GS said that if it was only a GK filling in a few games on the bench it wasn't important, but 17 games for me indicates he was part of the first team. Anyways, I would just like to know if y'all thought it would be appropriate to write "2017–" or "2019–" for this specific example. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 18:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi, this is probably the third time I've raised this question here in last 12 months. Unfortunately, I haven't had enough replies regarding this. So I'd like to give it a third and final try! :)
Should we add Liga MX playoff matches (Liguilla till last season, Repechage + Liguilla this season) in infobox of a player? These playsoffs works just like the one in MLS, and not all teams in league can enter this stage. We don't add MLS playoff stats of a player in his infobox, so logically we should do the same here? I think we should add them under 'other' section in career stats, and not in infobox. (Soccerway however put them under league apps, but they do the same for all playoffs including the ones in Spain & Uruguay!)
I am not sure if we have reached a consensus on this before. Or else, I'd like to know your opinions on this topic. Thanks in advance! Kokoeist ( talk) 10:44, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Pinging @ GiantSnowman:, @ Nehme1499:, @ Mattythewhite:, @ RedPatchBoy: and @ Struway2: to know their opinions, as they are usually the most active editors here. Kokoeist ( talk) 05:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Could someone lend a hand at Ben Davies (footballer, born 1995)? DDP-Trooper1777 ( talk · contribs) is insisting that Davies has completed his transfer to Liverpool but isn't providing a source to confirm this, and as far as I can see there isn't any confirmation from Liverpool or Preston yet. Mattythewhite ( talk) 19:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
If clubs do not have articles on the English Wikipedia, do we either link to the club article on another Wikipedia, make a red link, or just leave a simple text? Geschichte is reverting on Cerezo Haabo. From editing patterns I've seen, we usually link to other Wikipedias if a page exists, and after that, we just leave as blank text, we never red link. Paul Vaurie ( talk) 13:58, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I would like to point out that I have created Wikipedia pages on Matteo Anzolin and Matías Soulé. They are in draft form as they have never made their debut in professional football. Please move the pages to the mainspace when they make their professional football debut. Dr Salvus ( talk) 15:07, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone here take a look at Eric Omondi Ongao? This stub is basically only sourced to this entry at National-Football-Teams.com, which describes 34 international matches for the Kenya national football team.
There are a few old articles with similar claims ( Bleacher Report and a Pittsburgh Riverhounds SC Press Release), but it's a bit odd that there is a dearth of higher quality sources for such claims. — MarkH21 talk 07:19, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
There's a bit of information about him as "Eric Omondi" in Kenyan sources but you need access to allafrica.com. Hack ( talk) 14:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
I know in the infobox, we include only league matches for the infobox, but was curious if it's the same for college stats (for Canadian/American college/university teams). Is it league matches only, or do playoff matches get included as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RedPatchBoy ( talk • contribs) 21:13, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
@ RedPatchBoy and Nehme1499: Both of y'all have got to be more specific with "league matches" here. There's no such thing as "league matches" in American college soccer...there's conference and nonconference games, then there's the conference tournament, and then there's the NCAA Division I Men's Soccer Tournament (or the NCAA Division II Men's Soccer Championship or NCAA Division III Men's Soccer Championship). None of those distinctions matter, though, because all of the matches are treated as the same. To use JJ Williams as an example, take a look at the stats tab on his University of Kentucky profile. All four of those "types" of matches are included as the exact same.
Just from the quick bit of research I did, it seems like this is different in Canada, where there's a clear line between regular season and playoff matches...but in the United States, not so. Keskkonnakaitse ( talk) 19:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
I have not seen this often, but I was wondering: do we include "promotion" honours? I know we don't include 2nd place finishes in the top tier, but do we include an honour for being promoted as a 2nd place team?
And do we include an honour for winning the promotion/relegation play-offs?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 19:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
== Regional Italian Cups are notable? ==
In Italy there are regional cups that take place between 7th tier teams. There are sources needed to verify that the information is true, but I would like to know if it is notable and if pages about these competitions could be created on Wikipedia.
Dr Salvus (
talk) 15:04, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Can somebody protect this page from vandalism. There is a user who puts fake stats in infobox for years now. Thanks -- 2603:9000:6E0E:7FFD:0:0:0:812 ( talk) 16:56, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Let's say Tim Template plays for Sample City FC from 2033 to 2035. In the first season, the number of league appearances he makes is recorded: he makes a total of 8 league appearances. In the second season, the number of appearances is unknown. In this scenario, would we make the club appearances for Tim Template 8 or would we leave it blank?
Secondly, for the club total goals & apps: when we know all the stats, of course we add it, but when there is one club for which the player stats are missing, do we still have a total in the infobox? (Of course this is for after retirement.)
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 15:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
But GS, I had put a + on Oladapo Afolayan and you said to remove due to being incomplete. RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:18, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
That's fair. I found partial stats for the missing season, but not complete. Should I add partial stats with a plus for the missing or is it better to just omit fully if not complete, I did the latter ? RedPatchBoy ( talk) 16:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Alright, and guys, what about the "total"? Paul Vaurie ( talk) 17:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
@
Nehme1499: Thanks for saying yep. Just one thing, I wasn't sure if you also meant that adding the note (a) is appropriate or not.
And one last thing, would it be ok to add the total for when several clubs are missing like
Christian Zajaczkowski?
Paul Vaurie (
talk) 22:39, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
In those stats tables, do we include only the games in which the manager was physically present on the bench, or do we include all team results since the date of official appointment regardless of who is actually on the bench during the match? For example, if the manager is appointed on 30 January 2021, but has to be quarantined for 10 days and therefore the assistant manager is in charge for 2-3 games, are those stats still included?
In sources, both soccerbase.com and footballdatabase.eu are using fully automated system so I dont know how reliable is that, i.e. all games since the date of appointment are automatically counted toward the manager, since they dont manually put managers in their match reports, only the players. Snowflake91 ( talk) 11:05, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
I bet some of the early secretary-managers were absent from games quite often, but we'd never find sources to prove it........ -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 12:55, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
If your comments take up one-third of the total text or you have replied to half the people who disagree with you, you are likely bludgeoning the process and should step back and let others express their opinions, as you have already made your points clear.
Spike 'em (
talk) 22:17, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
Might be a long shot, but does anyone know if the George Collins who managed Gillingham in 1919-20 and the George Collins who managed Darlington in the 1930s are definitely the same man (as the LMA believe)? And if so, what he was doing in the intervening 13 years......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 14:35, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
A date for the postponed 2020 Copa del Rey Final has now been set (3 April). I see that has been added to Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad's 2019–20 season articles, and just wanted to seek consensus about that being the 'correct' location before it's played and any team and player stats get added. I had a look at the participants in the latter stages of the 2019–20 Scottish Cup to see how that was being shown, and found Celtic and Aberdeen have the results and stats in their 2019–20 article, but Hearts and Hibs have them in 2020–21. I don't really care which is preferred, but obviously it should be consistent. An earlier discussion, in fact more than one, on the Scottish player stats in the bio articles went the way of 2019–20 with a note (I haven't actually got round to checking all of the players involved but I will try to do so this week). The club articles will be more straightforward as long as everyone is aware of the community decision on it (fortunately none of the teams involved have played in the current Scottish Cup yet, so all stats displayed there at present are for the previous season). Therefore, pinging @ Jmorrison230582:, @ Davezo33:, @ Blethering Scot: and @ Celticbhoy97: who I believe are the main contributors to each of the Scottish articles, and @ SteveMc25: and @ Sakiv: who heavily contribute to both Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad, to keep you in the loop. Thanks. Crowsus ( talk) 03:31, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi. WP:AIV is very slow. 176.59.35.53 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) has been vandalising Vedat Muriqi. Can an admin @ GiantSnowman:, @ Mattythewhite:, …) please block them? They're clearly WP:NOTHERE. Kind regards, Robby.is.on ( talk) 12:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)