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Hi, Athletic Bilbao have redesigned their website and all the links are broken, including the player profile template on 300 articles. It used to display like this: https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/270/larrainzar.html or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/349/yeste.html or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/924/muniain.html, but now it's https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/inigo-larrainzar-santamaria or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/Francisco-Javier-yeste-navarro or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/Iker-muniain-goni. Instead of an ID number and the 'shirt name', the page now uses their full name. Even worse, the players who were known by a nickname do not have it in the title (Tiko was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/18/tiko.htmlbut but is now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/roberto-martinez-ripodas, Pichichi was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/334/pichichi.html but now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/rafael-moreno-aranzadi, and Javi Martínez was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/1613/jmartinez.html but is now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/javier-martinez-aginaga ). So with all the variations it's not an easy one to auto-predict or fix but hopefully someone will have the knowledge? Crowsus ( talk) 14:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
{"id":"924","slug":"iker-muniain-goni"which provides the ID number and the new player string. A bit tedious to extract and then it would need switch statements added to the template to convert id to name. Jts1882 | talk 17:00, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
{"id":"2008","slug":"alejandro-remiro-gargallo", {"id":"2772","slug":"cristian-ganea", {"id":"1753","slug":"unai-nunez-gestoso", {"id":"2770","slug":"inigo-martinez-berridi", {"id":"1827","slug":"yeray-alvarez-lopez", {"id":"870","slug":"mikel-san-jose-dominguez", {"id":"754","slug":"benat-etxebarria-urkiaga", {"id":"860","slug":"ander-iturraspe-derteano", {"id":"2233","slug":"inaki-williams-arthuer", {"id":"924","slug":"iker-muniain-goni", {"id":"2021","slug":"inigo-cordoba-querejeta", {"id":"1095","slug":"yuri-berchiche-izeta", {"id":"849","slug":"iago-herrerin-buisan", {"id":"763","slug":"markel-susaeta-laskurain", {"id":"2229","slug":"inigo-lekue-martinez", {"id":"2773","slug":"daniel-garcia-carrillo", {"id":"2224","slug":"mikel-rico-moreno", {"id":"1984","slug":"oscar-de-marcos-arana", {"id":"422","slug":"aritz-aduriz-zubeldia", {"id":"1224","slug":"ander-capa-rodriguez", {"id":"2496","slug":"raul-garcia-escudero", {"id":"2168","slug":"unai-lopez-cabrera", {"id":"1826","slug":"mikel-balenziaga-oruesagasti", {"id":"2136","slug":"unai-simon-mendibil", {"id":"2397","slug":"gorka-guruzeta-rodriguez", {"id":"2483","slug":"peru-nolaskoain-esnal",
|id=234/name
) and gets the new form id string from the list in {{
Athletic Bilbao profile/data}} (which has the current first team as listed above). If not available it just uses the id as passed. This means setting the id to the new style string form (e.g. |id=cristian-ganea
) will work.I think, in all humility, this tag at Cristian Díaz makes for a very poor read. I tried to adjust it but failed miserably, hence left the current one be.
Suggestions anyone? Thanks anyone -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:42, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
These type of photos are at risk of being deleted from Wikipedia Dear fellow members, I am in an un-deletion discussion at Wikimedia Commons with an editor who claims that the 11-men standing photo is outside of copyright restrictions due to not being artistic. I would appreciate it if any member of the FOOTY community who knows more about football photos or publications could help provide some input into the discussion. I worry that, as the deletion reasoning stands, it will not only continue affecting one of our featured articles ( Peru national football team), but the implications also might affect other 11-men standing photographs currently available for free fair use.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:32, 30 November 2018 (UTC) Link to the discussion ( CLICK HERE).-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Someone moved this page to Fabri (footballer). Sure, a player career before a managerial one, but i seriously doubt we will ever learn any stats for this subject (i.e. only a Tercera División footballer), thus it's kind of "risky" addressing him as a footballer if he was not a professional/encyclopedical one (a coaching career at the highest level in various countries, that he had). Makes more sense to rename this guy "Fabri", my two cents.
Thoughts anyone? Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 01:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Makes sense. So, if i get you well (maybe i fail at that, i'm a bit thick regarding technicalities), it's best to leave the second item as it is and rename the first (for example) "Fabriciano González Penelas" and add a hatnote, thus avoiding second-guessing in the process? -- Quite A Character ( talk) 01:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Is this Transfer of Cristiano Ronaldo from Real Madrid C.F. to Juventus F.C. really needed? Kante4 ( talk) 19:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Is he going to be the only sportsperson in the world with articles to his museum, his bust (i think it was a separate one, now it's been duly moved to the sculptor's page, apologies if i'm confusing myself there) and his transfer fees? An utter joke, my humble two cents. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Many of you will probably remember former Ipswich Town stalwart (and occasional England star), Kevin Beattie, who recently died.
His biography is at FAC and I'd really appreciate any input from you guys. Even if you don't remember him!
He had a really interesting and in some ways sad life. Do take a peek at the article. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:42, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
On Pep Guardiola's page, it cites him as being one of the best midfielders of his generation with only one source (Johan Cryuff picking him in his World XI team). From what I've seen, similar type claims on other articles require a greater amount of in-depth sources, and I am not even sure this one actually addresses the point at hand as it is one man's opinion. Another editor disagreed however and wanted to keep it in, so what are people's opinions on here? Is this enough evidence to solidify the claim? Davefelmer ( talk) 04:58, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Do we really need all the detail in his Managerial statistics section? I've not seen it for anyone else. -- Daemonickangaroo2018 ( talk) 08:34, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Those who know me, will know I edit a lot about Norwich City F.C..
An incredible website exists, called Flown From the Nest (it's an in-joke for Canaries fans - see The Nest), which has details on the lives and careers of a stupendous number of former Norwich players, managers, administrators and others.
If I were to be harsh, I'd venture that it is reliable and accurate in what it says, but it can sometimes be out of date, so if it says someone left Norwich and went to Kings Lynn, they definitely did that, but they may have subsequently moved on to Thetford. It's definitely reliable for information about people's time with Norwich.
I'd like to know if we can regard it as RS for people's Norwich careers? -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:51, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi all - is there any reason other than omission that {{ National football squad player (recent)}} doesn't accept the natvar attribute like {{ National football squad player}} and {{ National football squad player (goals)}}? Many of the pages at the maintenance category are flagged because natvar has been included in the (recent) template - and in many of these cases this results in the incorrect club nationality flag being displayed.
Could it be fixed by one of the clever people who write templates? Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 22:28, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Specifically this page: [1]. Being used as a citation in Kevin Beattie, which is currently being considered as a possible Featured Article. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:32, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Chaps, you're all really welcome to comment at the FAC: Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Kevin_Beattie/archive1. We've had some non-expert attention at the copyedit stage, which was great, but comments from people who know their Hartlepools (singular) from their Hartlepools (plural) are really useful. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:45, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
There's a bit of an issue at Talk:2018–19 UEFA Europa League#Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. The articles on the competition's qualifying rounds are absolutely massive, with hundreds of transclusions of {{ footballbox}}, resulting in the last few not being rendered (see here). This gives me a good opportunity to suggest something I've been thinking about for a while: getting rid of the {{ goal}} template. Practically the only useful thing I can see about that template is that it standardises the way own goals and penalties are presented in our articles. It isn't exactly obvious that the ball icon indicates that the player mentioned scored a goal (no more so than providing the time of the goal, which we do anyway), which means the use of that icon falls foul of WP:ICONDECORATION. The template also reduces the size of the text for the goal time and own goal/penalty indicator, which can cause accessibility issues, especially since the text in the {{ footballbox}} template is already less than 100% of the default size. Ultimately, {{ goal}} is just yet another template that solves an issue we never really had. I know we've used it for a while, but it's starting to cause issues. Can we please find a way to get rid of it? – Pee Jay 16:58, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Either way, I'd say the template is used in too many different contexts to be deleted outright (it would make little sense for it to be deleted but the other icons to remain). I would disagree with ICONDECORATION, and {{ Goal}}/{{ Golden goal}}/{{ Silver goal}} also contain alt text for the images. A discussion regarding the use of the {{ Goal}} in {{ Football box}} seems a better option than taking it to TfD. S.A. Julio ( talk) 11:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
As I mentioned at Talk:2018–19 UEFA Europa League#Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded, using templatestyles with a Lua module could reduce the transclusion size when repeatedly using {{ Footballbox}}. This also applies to {{ goal}}. If the goal image was used as a background in the css it wouldn't need to placed as an image each time it was used. The page 2010–11_UEFA_Europa_League_qualifying_phase_and_play-off_round uses has 601 goal icons, each using 430 characters, which adds up to 258k (using one byte per char; utf-8 will use a bit more). That more than 12% of the total transclusion size allowed for a page. I think at least 90% of that can be trimmed if goal was implemented as a module with templatestyles. I've checked that background images are allowed in the saniticed CSS (e.g they are used the citation templates here). Jts1882 | talk 11:49, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
There's broken code in the lede of the article on Jonathan Mensah. Could someone take a look? Robby.is.on ( talk) 12:25, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Amodou Abdullei apparently had a number of (seemingly unsuccessful) trials with various clubs in 2009. Firstly, these have all been put in the infobox, and secondly he has been put in the player categories for the clubs concerned. Is either of these a correct thing to do? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi. For football season articles like 2017–18 in English football or 2017–18 in Italian football, are the dates for inclusion, particularly for national team matches, from July 2017 until June 2018, for example, or is it more like kin to club seasons mid-August to mid-May? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee ★★★ 18:30, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Can Major League Soccer team infoboxes have team colors/colours added to them? Or is there a reason they are omitted that I’m not aware of? SportsFan007 ( talk) 09:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
In creating an infobox for Brian Gayle, I noticed that the stats for a couple of his clubs are slightly different on Hugman and Soccerbase:
Bristol Rovers: SB = 24, Hugman = 23
Shrewsbury Town: SB = 67, Hugman = 66
Any idea why this might be, and is there a wider question about stats from one or the other of those sites? Thanks, Nzd (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but Soccerbase are making a lot of errors now. e.g. in Saturday's game between Hamilton and Hibs, (bizarrely) both goalkeepers got injured in the warm-up and had to be replaced. Yet Soccerbase recorded Adam Bogdan as having played in the game for Hibs, and their report shows 12 players in their starting lineup. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 11:33, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at Adrian Mutu? Looks like we have a WP:COI with AMadrianmutu79 ( talk · contribs) claiming to be the subject and deleting swathes of sourecd content from the article. Thanks, Mattythewhite ( talk) 21:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Is there a way to move a category and automatically change all the articles in that category so they are in the new category? FC Versailles was moved to FC Versailles 78 in August, but the associated players category wasn't moved with it. There's only a dozen or so articles in the category so not much of a pain to do manually, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 11:15, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Who can help me do this merge per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2011–12 UEFA Europa League first qualifying round outcome? Thanks Hhkohh ( talk) 08:54, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi all, I just want to ask. Do we need to list the top 10 attendance for a league season page? Like Catalyszczowski did on 2018 Liga 1 page in this contribs? Tag Hhkohh. Thanks. Wira rhea ( talk) 14:31, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Does the EFL Trophy meet WP:N? There's a lot of Charlton players with pages who have only played EFL Trophy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.39.117.10 ( talk) 18:57, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Can anybody point me in the direction of the warning template for when editors don't update the 'club-update' parameter? Giant Snowman 11:08, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
{{
footyiu}}
. You can add it as a
custom warning in
Twinkle so it'll link to the the relevant aticle.
Nzd
(talk)
11:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
Would it make more sense to make a single article called Lebanon national football team results (1940–99) with 145 games or to divide it into two articles called Lebanon national football team results (1940–79) and Lebanon national football team results (1980–99) with 60 and 75 games respectively?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 14:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I just spotted a few of these floating by in my Watchlist. I believe there are over 700 planned for mass changing. All without the definite article, lol.
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 5. The deleted Categories were all under Category:Wikipedian sports fans (now a redlink for obvious reasons).
-- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:22, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Just been reading the 2004 edition of the Guinness World Records, and in the sports/football department it is said this (unfortunate) guy held the record for youngest player to compete in all four major levels of English football. He did play nine matches (according to hiw WP entry) for Sheffield United in that 1992/93 season when they were in the Premier League, yet his Soccerbase entry does not show any matches (please see here https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=20953, either he did not play or old seasons are not displayed anymore).
Also, could it be something was lost in the Portuguese translation of said almanac? Inputs please.
Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 16:27, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Evidently folks, I was just thinking maybe the translation from the English version was made poorly and thus the read made me think something else. In case not, of course the record is accurate; also, as you both duly noted, that record has now longsince been broken. Many thanks for your inputs, take care. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 10:15, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Found this. 'Tis reliable, isn't it not? If so, i'll insert in article to the best of my abilities. Cheers! -- Quite A Character ( talk) 10:19, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Whatever, i've embraced WP:BOLD and inserted it anyway. If anyone wants to go MOS on this one (if need be, obviously)... Happy weekend -- Quite A Character ( talk) 00:27, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm in the process of writing an article for Guernsey footballer Ross Allen. Though he fails WP:NFOOTY, I believe there's enough non-routine coverage solely about him on notable news sites, enough so that he fulfils general notability criteria and thus justifies an article.
Before I begin properly writing the article, could I please get some secondary opinions? The skeleton for the article (including many references to be added) is at Draft:Ross Allen (footballer). Thanks, Mrsmiis ( talk) 05:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
I don't have time but can somebody please work out where the page history of Darlington Town F.C. (formerly Horden Colliery Welfare) has gone? There look to have been page moves/possible C&P job... Giant Snowman 14:08, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Plenty of sources - see eg this and this and this, probably meets GNG and merits an article. Any idea what it should be called? Giant Snowman 12:13, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Article created at 1971 Women's World Cup. Giant Snowman 14:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Both the 1970 and 1971 tournaments were organised by de:Fédération Internationale et Européenne de Football Féminin (FIEFF) Bring back Daz Sampson ( talk) 15:13, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Asking for help with Mohammed Magdy Elhussieny. Came across this when working the queue of articles with bad display titles when the author tried to change the spelling of the name. Does this guy meet the notablity guidelines? I was thinking this could even be a hoax given the teams asserted that he's played for: in Egypt, Gibraltar, Bangladesh, Maldives and now Kuwait. See also Mohamed Magdy and Mohamed Magdy (footballer, born 1993), I don't know whether any of these can be determined to be primary topic for the name. – wbm1058 ( talk) 11:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
There's a controversial RM over this article here which could do with more input from Footy project members familiar with naming conventions for divisions. Number 5 7 19:39, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I tried to duly move this page to "Popo (footballer)", but was not allowed. As far as i can see, WP already has Adílson Ferreira de Souza (nicknamed "Popó", even though that's not the name of the page) and Popó (footballer).
Mr. Burgos' article clearly needs a page move. All the web searches have him being addressed to as "Popo", and links #1 and #2 in his article (both Spanish) attest to the same.
Suggestions? Attentively, thanks in advance -- Quite A Character ( talk) 20:06, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
My edit to Nicolò Zaniolo's youth career was reverted and I don't want to litigate about this so lets just clear it up here.
In summary he was a Fiorentina youth player in 2016. At the end of the summer transfer market he was discared and moved to Virtus Entella to continue playing with their youth team (the primavera). However a couple months in he was so good for the Primavera that he got his first team debut in Serie B and finished up the season there playing at both senior and youth level. The following season Inter sign him, and he plays the whole year with their Primavera youth side, even winning the primavera league as their top scorer. GiantSnowman has decided his youth career magically ended at Fiorentina and deleted the Entella and Inter sections from his youth career.
What is the consensus? If you want to argue he wasn't an Inter youth player that's fine (it's ridiculous considering he played all the games and won the league as top scorer, but whatever fine), but he was definitely still a youth player when he was signed by Virtus Entella. He didn't magically become a senior player when he was discarded by Fiorentina in 2016.
Moreover I can provide you with countless examples of other youth players signed from Serie D or Serie C that have previously been given their debut in the lower leagues but continued their youth football career. Filippo Berardi for example already played professional football for Rimini when Torino signed him, but he was an important player for our youth team for like 3 seasons. Putting Torino in his senior career instead of youth would be ridicolous because it gives the impression he was a first team player - in reality he's never even been called up. Danieletorino2 ( talk) 06:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
I would agree with Danieletorino2, the youth career and the senior career are to be considered independently: until a player stops being called up for the youth team the infobox should show the player still "currently" playing for both the youth and senior. Also, it wouldn't make sense for a player (such as Nicolò Zaniolo) to have not played for a certain youth team ( Inter) in the infobox but to reference him being the top scorer for them in the youth league in the body of the article. I don't understand where the current consensus has been reached but I feel like it should be revisited. Nehme1499 ( talk) 12:17, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
What about a player who spends 1 year with a youth team, then 1 year with a senior team, and does that for 5-6 years? What about senior players who play for a youth team, as punishment or rehabilitation? etc. When do we decide that a youth career has finally ended? Giant Snowman 14:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Of course a clear statement is very rare, that's why I would opt for the second option I presented. I think that the national team analogy fits well, for example Fabio Quagliarella might be called up for the national team once again as he is yet to retire but we don't say that he has been playing in 2007–, rather in 2007–2010. If a player, say the 17 year-old goalkeeper you mentioned, is on the bench for the first team but never plays football (either professionally or in the youth) for the whole season, it's safe to say that he is only a senior player (so the year count for the youth team would stop). If instead, while staying on the bench for the senior team, he also plays for the youth team then he is to be considered both a youth and senior team and his infobox would reflect it, for example, by saying that he plays in the youth team in 2016– and the senior team in 2018–. Once he stops being called up for the youth team regularly on, for example, 2 February 2019 and he doesn't play in the youth for another year (the time period could be decided, I would say 1 year is appropriate), meaning that if he hasn't been called up for the youth from 2 February 2019 till 2 February 2020, it's safe to change the infobox from 2016– to 2016–2019. Nehme1499 ( talk) 16:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
GS, please don´t missinform users that your prefered version is the one that is consensus. It isn´t. Actually in the last discussion most editors were against you and supported my proposal to stick to the reliable sources thus having overlaping or straigh-or-forth years in infoboxes. Here was the last discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_119#Youth_careers_in_infobox. FkpCascais ( talk) 10:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
For the record, i generally agree using professional debut as a clear cut and just scrap that idea for one season as first team regular and then next season as youth team player . Except those wonder kid case that made their debut at age 16 or even 13 (or arbitrary, any club when he played above age 16-18 are not youth), it work totally fine to consider player that made one professional appearance as pro, which also the criteria of WP:NSPORTS. Or going to area of OR, say 5 first team appearances even they are eligible to play youth/reserves or back to playing age specific ladder team, they are pro and listing the club as youth and pro simultaneously in one overlapping period, did not help to improve the context. In Italy, one wildcard player for the youth team can be in any age, so it did not means much if players still playing for youth team. Or in other league, some first team player can be put in to reserves squad for gaining fitness and keeping the play time on football field. It just step into OR on determinate youth career end date by interpreting appearances and adding arbitrary "not call up" for N month criteria/ instead of simple judgement on first team debut. Matthew hk ( talk) 11:48, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Actually there is real cutting point in real world. Either by regluation the youth league had age limit (U19 for Italy and U20 in the past), or by FIFA solidatary mechanism to youth clubs regulation (clubs until the player turned age 23 in general, but CAS/FIFA courting ruling did rule some players' club at age 20 are not youth club anymore, thus exclude from receiving solidatary mechanism "dividend" from future transfer fee), or by another regulation, below age 18 are minor and above age 18 can sign professional contract. For 1 match debut cutting point, it sound odd for "youth player that made professional debut", but not that silly for "young professional player that played in professional match". The overlap is acutally due to infobox lack of row for "young professional" period (only have uni team year), they trained professionally but at the same time only played in youth/age-sepcifc league. And it is not that good for player such as Super Mario that played over 30 games for first team in a season AND played for youth team in playoffs in May/June, and consider that season still "youth". Those most "senior" youth team actually likes other world's reserves in their special league (did not have much age limitation) and B team (Bayern II, Monaco B) in the same adult league system, is a mix of young professional player that made professional debut and don't. Back to Zaniolo's case, it does not make sense for a player that played 7 games in 2 months as pro and consider Inter was signing him and consider him "youth player", putting that season as youth season and put it in youth club row, instead of signing him as "young professional", ready to loan out to pro team, but immediate lack of play time in first team as compare to world class pro player. Matthew hk ( talk) 08:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Question's in the title: the current second tier is deemed fully pro in context of WP:NFOOTBALL, but when does this assumption of fully-professional status date from?
This stems from me de-prodding David Keddie on the grounds that he'd played 60-odd games in the second tier in the 1960s, without considering that it quite possibly wouldn't have been deemed fully pro that long ago. User:Aoziwe queried the de-prod at the talk page and I suggested seeking knowledgeable opinion here. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 13:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, while researching for the Lebanese national team I have come across their first match played in 1934 against a Romanian club called "Altak". As searching for "Altak" didn't give me any result, I'm guessing that Altak is either:
I have found a team called Club Atletic Oradea that could have been the team in question as they have toured French colonies in the 30s but after contacting the club they told me that they had toured North-african countries and not the middle east. Another person found that it could be CA Timisoara (T.A.C.) who have toured the middle east in 1934 (no information on Lebanon however).
In short, I'm asking if there is someone who knows about a Romanian club in the 30s called either "Altak" or whose initials are "T.A.C." that has toured the middle east and played against lebanon in 1934.
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 20:29, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
I contacted the author of the RSSSF website in question (Neil Morrison), and he told me this:
"A club from Timisoara (Romania) toured the Levant in early 1934 - matches included the following:
It seems likely that this was the same club which visited Beirut, although no Beirut match is mentioned above (possibly Beirut was visited later).
The name this the Romanian club was not given in the source of the above results ("The Palestine Post") but it was mentioned that the club was the champion of Transylvania. The Hebrew newspaper "Haaretz" gave the team's name as an abbreviation, which, transliterated, is T.A.C.
The club which seems to fit the description (initials T.A.C. and regional champions in 1934) is Clubul Atletic Timisoara:
Therefore my best guess is that "Altak" was an Arabic phonetic reading of "Al-T.A.C." i.e. and that C.A. Timisoara was the true identity. But I don't have anymore detailed source to confirm this guess."
I would also add that Clubul Atletic Timisoara was regularly called C.A.T., meaning that the acronym isn't something that Neil Morrison "invented". The only problem involves the order of the letters, which is inversed. I would guess that, since Hebrew is written from right to left, someone messed up the translitteration of the acroynm somewhere down the line (from hebrew to arabic or to english, from arabic to english, ecc...). Nehme1499 ( talk) 12:26, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
I responded to this question Talk:Portsmouth F.C.#Brett Pitman FIFA nationality however, now I am questioning myself, if you haven't represented a country, should the flag icon be that of the Island you were born on? Govvy ( talk) 20:16, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Some sources say he is Belgian, some say Dutch - any idea? Giant Snowman 11:29, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Are there any editors here who possess a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive who would be able to check one or two pages for me to help with a sourcing issue? Kosack ( talk) 11:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Before an edit war of some sort emerges from this: do we really need the Ballon d'Or stuff in this guy's intro? Methinks in the body of article (club career) is more than enough, these NOMINATIONS added nothing to his career (one vote both editions combined), so not an accomplishment whatsoever.
Opinions, please. Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 14:13, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. Ninad05mestry ( talk) 14:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
On a similar note, I see some player's articles listing finishing positions such as 9th and 10th in the Ballon D'or in the honours section. Do we consider lower placed finishes like this as an honour? Kosack ( talk) 14:50, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
(apologies if this has been asked before) How should the infobox reflect transfers at this time of the year? E.g. If a player joins a club now, should the infobox say 2018 or 2019? Is it to be based on when the transfer was completed or when registered? I've recently reverted edits over at the Maximiliano Meza article that changed the year from 2018 to 2019, as the transfer was completed in the last 24hrs. R96Skinner ( talk) 21:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
2018–19 Premier League, 2017–18 Premier League, 2016–17 Premier League and others seem to be going through this systemic removal of flag icons by Sportsfan 1234 and then there seems to be people reverting those flags, I have reverted at one point. But there seems to be a more widespread issue I think we need to discuss regarding these articles and beyond.
MOS:SPORTFLAGS suggests that we should use flags for players that have represented their international team, I have nothing against using flag icons on these pages, I don't think we should apply flags to Managers, but players only. I was hoping we could discuss this issue, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 14:07, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I would recommend those who have spoken in favour of including the flags to take a glance at WP:WORDPRECEDENCE, which states that "Words as the primary means of communication should be given greater precedence over flags", and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Icons#Accompany flags with country names, which instructs us that "The name of a flag's political entity should appear adjacent to the first use of the flag". It is also worth considering that the nationalities these flags represent are entirely unsourced. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I really don't understand the argument here. The WP:SPORTFLAG clearly supports the use of flags to demonstrate sporting nationality. This is both useful, and uses little space, so does not detract anything from the article. The argument from Sportsfan 1234 that they shouldn't be used because this is not an article about national teams is insane. That implies that flag should only be used for national teams....which would be pointless as they will all have the nationality of the country they are playing for. Also for national teams the squad listing states which domestic club a player plays for, by the logic above this should be removed as it is not an article about club football. National Flags should definitely be reinstated, and any significant changes in the presentation or information that impacts an array of articles should be discussed and approved here first rather than individuals changing some articles resulting in inconsistency between similar articles. Jopal22 ( talk) 18:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I don't think people going on about WP:ACCESS here realise how out of date WP:ACCESS is over flag icons, firstly I am colour blind and I don't need the name of the country after the flag, because if I hover over the flag, I can read the alt popup code. Secondly, I can use special function to have my software read back to me what any image is including flag icons. Clicking a flag icon is a useful function, however it can be annoying at times, because the voice software responds with "Clickable media" a lot!! Govvy ( talk) 10:46, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I've received a message from @ Dav90mun07 on my talk page (reproduced below) about an edit I recently reverted on the Frank Grayer article as unsourced:
Hi Nzd,
Yes, you have made a mistake with taking out the information I provided on the birth location of Frank Grayer, he was born in Southampton, Hampshire, England according to the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915, and 1891 England Census records. so please use the citation below to be included into the information on Frank Grayer. thank you.
[1] and also this reliable source material
[2]
Dav90mun07 (
talk) 20:59, 20 December 2018
I've had a look at the birth records/census details and they do indeed show a Frank Grayer born in Southampton on that date, and I couldn't find one born in Brighton. However, along with my revert I had also added the Joyce book as a ref for the Brighton birthplace, so it looks like we have at least two published sources showing something which appears to contradict with the primary sources. It would be useful to get other editors' input as to how such situations are handled, and whether this constitutes original research. (Pinging @ Daemonickangaroo2018 as original article creator.) Nzd (talk) 08:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
References
FYI there's a question about football kits at the Teahouse here. If someone who can create kits can look at it, that would be appreciated. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:05, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
.....a very happy Christmas to everyone at WP:FOOTY. And may your team win on Boxing Day...........unless you support Portsmouth ;-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:50, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Merry festivities to you all, from Portugal! -- Quite A Character ( talk) 19:13, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Can I please have so help or advice for the India national football team. I have a user there who obviously doesn't know how to write properly in English, adds a ton of unnecessary information that shouldn't be in the main article, and then touts himself as this amazing historian of Indian football because of how long he has been following it. Yes, I messed up also by calling him a baby but he has also been touting himself the whole time as this expert, that he himself has edited pages like RSSSF (not sure about that but he says it) and honestly it just got to me like, honestly, who cares, this is an encyclopedia, no ones cares what you did or how long. I never even said I owned the page but that I would prefer it to have accurate facts based on sources and written properly. Yet he keeps adding in stuff like how the kit isn't orange or white due to other neighboring countries like Bhutan, Nepal, and Bangladesh when the source only mentions Pakistan. It is honestly infuriating. -- ArsenalFan700 ( talk) 20:30, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I have a war of edits with the user User:Xabel10 concerning the logo of this team.
The club recently updated the logo to the version I update, as it is used by the club in the t-shirts of all their teams, in the website, in publications about the club, social networks, etc. His logo, and older version, only is used at some sections in the website that do not require to be updating continuously and in the website of the Regional Football Federation (that have other logos in older versions).
Please, help us to end this. Greetings, Merry Christmas and happy 2019. Asturkian ( talk) 14:27, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
-- Xabel10 ( talk) 14:46, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
There are several moves on pages to colourize headers, such as at 2018–19 Manchester City F.C. season and 2018–19 Chelsea F.C. season Personally I find this tremendously distracting and difficult to read, particularly as players and their flags are already there. My suggestion is to keep the standard grey and less intrusive headers. In favour of trying not to get into edit wars I thought I would seek other opinions. I have reverted these colours several times already but at least one editor keeps re-colourizing. I appreciate any thoughts! Krazytea( talk) 20:50, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
Just wanted to ask what people thought for mehstg.com as a source. Govvy ( talk) 12:49, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Could other editors keep an eye on the Peter Thompson article please? Today's date keeps being added as the death date, but the sources say he died "at the weekend". [12] [13] I'm up to three reverts (although I suspect WP:3RRNO would apply). Maybe worth considering protection?
This would be a good one to develop BTW. Nzd (talk) 15:00, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Note: Due to technical issues, this page cannot run two RM at the same time, see
User talk:RMCD bot#Alexander Michel for more details
Hhkohh (
talk)
10:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew hk ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I was looking at some pictures of Lebanese football in the 90s and I came across a kit manufacturer of some Lebanese teams, as well as the national team. Is anyone able to identify it?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:53, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can an uninvolved admin please review and close this? No comments for nearly 3 months... Giant Snowman 10:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
or who appear by their international appearances to be the same player: Joe Davies (footballer, born 1870) and Joseph 'Joe' Davies (footballer, born 1870). Apart from there being two of him, there appears to be disagreement between sources about the birth year. The former has only one source, that gives birth year of 1866, and the latter was originally sourced to a Sheffield United book which also gave 1866. Yet they're both resident at (born 1870), which the latter attributes to ENFA, to which I have no access. Anybody qualified to confirm whether they are the same bloke or not, and then sort the articles out? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 18:13, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello all, is there any quick and easy way to insert a template (this one in this case: Template:Top level Turkish football seasons) to all seasons of the Süper Lig? It's quite a work to insert it in all ~60 seasons seperately. Maybe it is possible for an admin to do that? Thanks for the help in advance. Regards, Akocsg ( talk) 12:59, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Nevermind, I just noticed that Hack already did that for me. Thanks! Akocsg ( talk) 15:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm of the view that this is a reliable source - it aggregates data on non-league games inputted by the clubs themselves. However, I've seen it removed from articles for not being reliable. Thoughts? OGLV ( talk) 22:12, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
We have a problem, see WP:BOTREQ#Bot to convert Template:Fb cl2 team transclusions to use Module:Sports table Hhkohh ( talk) 18:28, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
As I say in the discussion, this article is completely unuseful. Asturkian ( talk) 08:21, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, there's an ongoing move discussion at Talk:Alexander Michel#Article name doubts. As we have yet to reach a consensus, it would be nice if someone would take a look at the discussion and give his opinion on the matter. Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 02:06, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I was wondering, do we have a set standard the articles should follow? List of English football transfers winter 2018–19 has started, but it feels like every loan and transfer is thrown in there, should we list football league only? Or just the top two divisions like List of English football transfers winter 2002–03? Govvy ( talk) 12:59, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
I was trying to move User:Govvy/Timothy Eyoma and User:Govvy/George Marsh out of my sandbox into main space because they made their debuts in the FA Cup, but for some reason the move names I kept choosing didn't work, wondered if an admin can work it out for me, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 21:40, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
This edit claims that the "MLS Cup Playoffs are the equivalent to the League Cup". I am not in agreement with this and I am more than willing to revert back to the "Other" column. It is not called a "League Cup". It's not available for every team in Major League Soccer let alone multiple leagues like the English version of the League Cup. The English Football League playoffs and Dutch playoffs. would not be classified as such. MLS Cup playoffs has the word "playoffs" in it. Just like in England and the Netherlands, a team qualifies for the playoffs based on league position. So, I see no reason why it should be a league cup. Kingjeff ( talk) 05:10, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, just to be sure: being called up for a national team, without actually playing a minute for them, doesn't grant a player notability for Wikipedia right? Nehme1499 ( talk) 21:07, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Is there anyone with knowledge of Indonesian football here? I'm concerned about these IP edits, all of which change the club from Persebaya Surabaya to Bhayangkara F.C. in player infoboxes and other places for the 2015 season. Both clubs were in fact involved in a series of mergers and renamings around the same time, so some truth might be in there. -- BlameRuiner ( talk) 08:24, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please fix the list, it's just going to be a great big long table which is stupid. Can some compitent editor please, please, please, seperate loans from transfers, and seperate per month, please, please, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:E26B:F900:9532:BA2F:128D:AABD ( talk) 12:25, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
GiantSnowman, who is going through an ArbCom case, has suggested that input is gathered from WikiProject Football on how unsourced edits are dealt with. Views have been put forward that Soccer articles attract a significant amount of inappropriate edits. I can imagine this to be true. How do folks in this project typically deal with inappropriate articles? As an example, following up on a comment in the Evidence page of the ArbCom case, I started to edit Julius Bliek by bringing over and copyediting material from the Dutch article. While I was still editing, a section I was working on was reverted because it was unsourced and incorrectly formatted. About an hour later another editor replaced that section with appropriate formatting and references. Which edit is the more typical of the project? Which edit is the one most expected and encouraged of members of the project? Which edit is the more reasonable in the circumstances of editing a topic area that faces a lot of inappropriate edits? SilkTork ( talk) 20:32, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
In general: we have to look at each unsourced edit on its merits. We can't just go round deciding that the "encyclopedia that anyone can edit" actually can't be edited by inexperienced editors because they don't know the "rules". And if an edit gets removed because it does break the rules, we need to tell the editor what was wrong. At this time of year, with the transfer window opening, there'll be a lot of crap written on a lot of articles, and there'll also be a lot of not-quite-perfect people genuinely trying to improve the encyclopedia. We need to be able and willing to spot a good-faith edit when we come across one and behave accordingly. It shouldn't take long to check whether Player A signing for Club B is fact, rumour or nonsense, and whether Editor C is a regular purveyor of nonsense or not. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 14:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Mattythewhite: - you might be interested in this. Giant Snowman 11:05, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for everyone's input. I was curious as to why GiantSnowman pinged User:Mattythewhite, so I took a look at his talkpage, and found this exchange interesting and useful. My impression from reading the comments here, and in that discussion, is that there is a difference of opinion in WikiProject Football regarding how to deal with new editors and how to deal with information updates in articles. Is that impression correct? Are there users here who want to be hardline in regards patrolling football articles in order to encourage maximum following of the rules, while others wish to be more helpful in order to encourage new editors and to ensure accuracy of the articles, though this may mean a little more work? Is this a fair summary? There are some who see that it is possible to clean up within the spirit of Wikipedia, while others feel that given the amount of real and potential inaccuracies introduced into football articles that in order to control it, speed and firmness are what is important, and that such behaviour is permitted within Wikipedia's policies. SilkTork ( talk) 16:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that this project was under significant pressure in the past regarding the amount of unreferenced BLPs - I remember at one point a few years ago we were rushing to reference tens of thousands of BLPs (and proposing deletions for the many unreferenced BLPs that were not notable). It was a massive amount of work conducted over a period of a few months, and while we have a much more manageable amount of unreferenced BLPs, there are so many poorly-referenced BLPs (e.g., single external link) within this project that I completely understand the way group members try to strictly adhere to WP:V. It's a tough balance when editors (many who make a handful of completely unsourced edits and vanish) are constantly adding content to these thousands of articles. [Just a few days ago I stumbled across a Zambian football club article that was vandalized many months ago - the editor even admitted to some vandalism in his edit summaries.] I think it's important not to discourage the editors who have spent countless hours patrolling and improving these articles. Jogurney ( talk) 04:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
It's difficult to answer this because I have only edited a handful of non-football-related articles. However, my experience was there was more ownership and edit-warring behaviors exhibited outside of this project (perhaps I choose too controversial articles). Jogurney ( talk) 14:55, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
I think that's a reasonable assessment. As someone who has just shy of 5,000 football-related articles watchlisted, I do try to check every change but sometimes that's just not possible. I can only imagine the rate at which editors like GS and Matty - who probably have a multitude more articles watchlisted than I have - find themselves working at. As I noted in the discussion you linked to before, there are specific data integrity issues which, combined with the high volume of edits, make football articles something of a special case. We have regular issues with new/IP editors changing clubs or updating appearance stats incorrectly, and differentiating between good-faith attempts and malintent can sometimes be difficult. As well as all of the unsouced stuff, there are also issues where changes are sourced only to user-generated sites like Transfermarkt.
That's not to say I agree with GS's actions. The use of mass rollback seems to have been counterproductive in many cases. A couple of hours ago, I updated stats for James Rowe, only to discover afterwards that the same valid stats had been rolled back previously, twice. Also mentioned above is the blanket removal of anything not inline-cited, and indeed one of my first encounters with GS was this. I'm not sure how this kind of robotic removal really helps the encyclopedia. If I'm working on an article now, I actually make a point of going through the history to look for valid content that GS might have removed.
The other issue, probably one best answered by ArbCom, is to what extent an admin is involved when reverting. I agree with @ Koncorde's point above (with apologies if I've misstated it) that any editor (admin or not) has the right to challenge/revert content that is unsourced, and in many cases would be correct in doing so. However, various comments at ANI asserted that GS blocking editors that he has himself reverted is counter to this part of the policy, and I would tend to agree with this.
Ultimately, I'd prefer not to see GS lose the mop, but I would like him (and, indeed, the project) use this as an opportunity to make some changes to how new and inexperienced editors are handled. GS, as has been pointed out by various others, is one of our most prolific editors, both in content creation and patrolling, and knows the project and the 'football world' intimately. The project needs admins like that. It already doesn't have enough.
Moving forward, I think it'd be useful for the project to work on some ideas which might reduce the volume of 'problem edits', and address some of the points that have been raised in the ArbCom case. WP Football doesn't have much in the way of guidance for new editors, which probably results in good-faith, but incorrect, attempts being reverted, and potential new editors being scared off. This clearly doesn't help the WikiProject, or Wikipedia in general. I'd like to see us do more to encourage inexperienced editors and for us be able to give a clear explanation of what is expected of them. This should not only help with retention, but would also help patrollers get a better handle on whether an editor has genuine malintent or competence issues. To that end, I've opened up another discussion with some suggestions below. Nzd (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Clearly an own goal by Vincent Sasso, no (please see here https://www.vsports.pt/vod/48425/m/449680/vsports/4b3fa6de955f86d0da800c23846101df)? FORADEJOGO (reliable whereas ZEROZERO is not) says he has 10 matches and no goals thus far.
Before an edit war is afoot, inputs please. Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 18:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Hence i asked, to go with just other than my opinion. FORADEJOGO is considered reliable like i said in original message, they don't credit the goal. This just in: the Portuguese League website (they are the governing body of the professional leagues) does give him the goal ( http://ligaportugal.pt/pt/epocas/20182019/noticias/geral/liga-nos/15-jornada/sporting-cp-leva-a-melhor-sobre-belenenses-e-sobe-ao-segundo-lugar/). i will change it thus.
If anybody has additional thoughts please share them here, what's good about this site is that every bit of info can be altered, much better if done through discussion. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 20:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Following on from the discussion above, I've noted down some suggestions for how the project might do more to encourage new editors and provide guidance on editing expectations. It'd be useful to get feedback on which (if any) others think are good ideas. I don't mind putting some work into drafting something based on input received.
{{
footyiu}}
can be added as a
custom warning in
Twinkle to notify editors about updating timestamps){{
infobox football biography}}
.|source=
parameter to {{
infobox football biography}}
. This is included in {{
Infobox cricketer}}
and seems to work well.Other editors may obviously have their own ideas. Nzd (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Could other editors please take a look at recent edits on Brisbane Roar FC. @ Eden64 is adding content sourced to a blog, and I've reverted twice. I'd rather not get into an edit war. Cheers, Nzd (talk) 00:55, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
validating much of the criticism on the latter stages of his tenurepart, which very clearly falls foul of the WP:SYNTH part of the OR policy, but have left the rest. Nzd (talk) 02:09, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Is there a consensus that only players listed on club websites as first-teamers should be listed in the 'First-team squad' sections of the club articles? @ P0g0.try has been removing players on this basis. Xande Silva played in the Premier League today, yet has been removed from this section the West Ham United article. That seems a bit odd to me. Thoughts? Nzd (talk) 00:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
I'd expect to find any player that either has a squad number or has been in a matchday squad in a list. On this basis, Silva should definitely be included. Number 5 7 13:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Viking FK was promoted from the 2nd tier of football in Norway last season (2018), and will now play in a fully professional league in the 2019 Eliteserien. Most of their first team players have professional contracts, but there are currently 11 players without a Wikipedia article. Can I create these articles? Or should I wait until they make an appearance in the league? Sørhaug ( talk) 08:51, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I was reviewing some of the UEFA Euros and World Cup qualifier pages, and noticed that whereas the Euro qualifiers had maps that illustrated which nations did and did not qualify, the World Cup counterparts lack these. While I would create and add these maps myself, I have no experience, so I was wondering if anyone would support or be willing to add the images themselves. Thanks. Good888 ( talk) 11:09, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Don't these kind of maps already exist here? DelUsion23 (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello! Quick question about Matías Vera. A deal was announced by Houston Dynamo, stating they've signed Matías Vera. However, in the official release on their website they state it is "pending receipt of his International Transfer Certificate (ITC) and P-1 Visa along with a completed medical". As such, I added that information to the article but didn't change the infobox, categories etc. @ UncleTupelo1: disagrees, he says the deal is completed despite the aforementioned - claiming it's "standard MLS transfer talk", with Vera added to Houston's squad list here. In fairness, I've been following to see if/when the medical gets done and have seen many media acting as if the transfer is indeed done. So, what's the stance that should be taken? R96Skinner ( talk) 16:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Didn't we have something against having a large kit gallery like on this page? Govvy ( talk) 18:09, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I am having some trouble interpreting the guidelines at
WP:WikiProject Football/League season#Standings for
League1 Ontario, specifically the
2017 and
2018 seasons which each had different formats. The league is tier 3 in Canada and has no promotion and relegation. The league champion is determined by playoff and also qualifies for
Canada's national cup competition. A league cup is also awarded in a separate competition.
I am hoping for some clarification on which colours should be used to indicate playoff berths, should champions be indicated on the standings table despite not being determined until playoffs, should league cup winner be indicated on the standings table with a letter, etc.
BLAIXX
20:35, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't follow football, but somehow Georges Leekens made it onto my watch list. Today I saw that there were a number of new & IP editors that removed material from the article, & I am asking editors who are more experienced with the national football teams to have a look. Peaceray ( talk) 20:03, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Born in England, played for Eire at youth and B level. In 2018 he was "interested in switching [his] allegiances to NI" per this but from what I can see never did. An IP keeps changing his flag to NIR rather than IRL. Thoughts? Giant Snowman 16:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Ada Hegerberg is the one we should focus on. ImmortalWizard (chat) 20:55, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Sorry if this has been asked already... what lists of hat-tricks are notable? I saw here that some leagues and some national teams have pages for them, but not all. Is this notability issue or just no one got around to creating the rest? -- SuperJew ( talk) 12:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, is it just me or have FIFA removed the individual national team results pages? For example, if I click on "All fixtures and results" on Lebanon's profile page on FIFA, it just redirects me to an add for their app. Have they moved the results pages to the app in order to promote it? Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 22:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I have to say, this season page is a perfect example of over use of primary sourcing, should use it as an example of what not to do!! Govvy ( talk) 14:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi there. I've reverted all of the four infobox updates from 91.69.84.197 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) I came across in my watchlist because they were inaccurate. Maybe someone would like to take a look at the remaining changes which are likely wrong? (Edit: In fact, the Talk page suggests a block might be in order.) Regards, Robby.is.on ( talk) 21:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
{{
footyiu}}
is made for, no?
Gricehead (
talk)
10:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
1 - after seeing that in Mauro Eustáquio and José Bosingwa, the following question arises: shouldn't we have just one "People from X" (or "Sportspeople from") category? Is it customary to have two in some cases (in which, then)? I'd go always with the place where the subject was born (not raised, as it seems to be case here?).
2 - Phil Jones (and others, I thus assume): is a fourth place at the World Cup (or a similar competition) an honour? Never knew that, sincerely.
Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 13:04, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry GS, I don't follow, birth place is not sufficient for what? From where I come from, both Mr. Eustáquio and Mr. Bosingwa have comprehensive sources for both "departments", where they were born (as well as the descent) and where they were raised -- Quite A Character ( talk) 13:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I was thinking if I could use a YouTube video to source a claim. For example, if I say that a goal has been incorrectly considered offside, and the video clearly shows the goal being onside (also showing the still-image of the offside line and everything), can I use it as a source? I'm asking about this specific situation since a goal being on/offside is (usually) a yes or no answer (it's not subjective, unlike fouls or yellow cards). Otherwise, can I take a snapshot of the still-image, upload it, and use that as a source? What's your opinion on this? Nehme1499 ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
An article on David Johnson (soccer) has recently appeared. Given we already have some articles on other David Johnsons who were footballers ( David Johnson (footballer, born 1976) and David Johnson (footballer, born 1951)), does this disambiguation work? If not, would David Johnson (footballer, born 1984) be appropriate given that they're American, or should it be David Johnson (soccer player, born 1984). Number 5 7 22:12, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Can someone sort this IP, guy out, he has a WP:OWN complex over the article. I've been reverted so many times for trying to fix the article it's nuts. Govvy ( talk) 20:31, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
It seem his international cap was not consistent among the source. For example, soccerway listed a friendly appearance against South Africa. However NFT.com did not record that match, but against Zambia instead. May be dig out individual match report on newspaper, and add the sum ourselves? Matthew hk ( talk) 21:35, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Can I confirm that we do not regard transfermarkt as a reliable source? Dumdaiduekdingdao keeps adding two inches onto the height of Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, based on a transfermarkt profile.... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 14:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Sources for a player's height can sometimes vary. Where there is a discrepancy, the most recent official source should usually be used. Generally, this would be a player's club/league profile, or FIFA listing.I'm working up some guidance (per above) and thought this would be a useful thing to add.The Emmanuel-Thomas example is something of an exception, as discussed on that talk page, and is the main reason for my use of usually/generally. Nzd (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I was trying to clean up Jesper Fredberg, and realized the article's sourcing didn't support the claim that he had worked as a manager in a fully-pro league (except for a stint as caretaker manager in the Cypriot top flight). He was the club's academy coach and became the caretaker manager after the senior side's regular manager was removed with 8 matches remaining in the 2017–18 season. Do we treat a caretaker in the same manner as a regularly-appointed manager? (I think it's possible the article can satisfy our notability requirements in some other way - it claims he played for AGF, and otherwise there could be enough sourcing to satisfy WP:GNG, but I wanted to understand what the group thinks about caretakers.) Jogurney ( talk) 20:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I want to ask, maybe it's a stupid question. Is winger a forward player or a midfield player? Wira rhea ( talk) 08:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Forward_(association_football)#Winger as mentioned here, in the English 4-4-2 system it's counted as a midfielder. But nowadays 4-4-2 is almost history. As many clubs are playing with only 1 striker, the wingers are counted as strikers. The modern midfielders from now are the defensive, central and attacking midfielders. Every time I'm adding the wingers to the forwards it is getting rejected. Is it possible to accept it when it is not a English team?
On a side note, I wanted to create a shortcut to the bottom of the links page, we have WP:WPFLINKS. But I am confusing myself as to what WP shortcut would be good to the section of links not to use, maybe WP:WPFLINKSV or WP:WPFLINKSU, asking for idea's what would be best, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 15:11, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Hugh McLaren (footballer, born 1926)#Date of death, thanks! Giant Snowman 10:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, I and Edwink85 want to ask about why transfermarkt is not a reliable source. I don't really know the details so I couldn't explain to Edwink85 about it. Maybe someone can give the details about it? Thanks. Wira rhea ( talk) 12:54, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
The official site is swindontownfc.co.uk so what's with swindon-town-fc.co.uk? Is this a fan site or not? I was a little confused and wanted to double check. And the that websites YouTube channel? I've noticed a link used as a citation, should I remove that link? Govvy ( talk) 21:14, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Is anybody able to make the map smaller, it seems huge on the article!! Govvy ( talk) 22:45, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
What is going on in the qualification relegation column of the table. Some clubs are qualifying for next season's events (European Cup and CWC), others are indicating that they are playing in the Fairs cup that season, based on qualifying the previous season. Is this what was intended or is desired? Jts1882 | talk 15:58, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Please help me, I am new to this project. Let me know where to start. Thanks! ImmortalWizard (chat) 19:06, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi all, I thought I would to your attention three open RM requests regarding the national football teams articles:
Regards – Ianblair23 (talk) 02:20, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
[14] Anyone tried this, I got 6 out of 10, but what a laugh. Govvy ( talk) 22:09, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 115 | ← | Archive 119 | Archive 120 | Archive 121 | Archive 122 | Archive 123 | → | Archive 125 |
Hi, Athletic Bilbao have redesigned their website and all the links are broken, including the player profile template on 300 articles. It used to display like this: https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/270/larrainzar.html or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/349/yeste.html or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/924/muniain.html, but now it's https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/inigo-larrainzar-santamaria or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/Francisco-Javier-yeste-navarro or https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/Iker-muniain-goni. Instead of an ID number and the 'shirt name', the page now uses their full name. Even worse, the players who were known by a nickname do not have it in the title (Tiko was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/18/tiko.htmlbut but is now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/roberto-martinez-ripodas, Pichichi was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/334/pichichi.html but now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/rafael-moreno-aranzadi, and Javi Martínez was at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/1613/jmartinez.html but is now at https://www.athletic-club.eus/en/players/javier-martinez-aginaga ). So with all the variations it's not an easy one to auto-predict or fix but hopefully someone will have the knowledge? Crowsus ( talk) 14:52, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
{"id":"924","slug":"iker-muniain-goni"which provides the ID number and the new player string. A bit tedious to extract and then it would need switch statements added to the template to convert id to name. Jts1882 | talk 17:00, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
{"id":"2008","slug":"alejandro-remiro-gargallo", {"id":"2772","slug":"cristian-ganea", {"id":"1753","slug":"unai-nunez-gestoso", {"id":"2770","slug":"inigo-martinez-berridi", {"id":"1827","slug":"yeray-alvarez-lopez", {"id":"870","slug":"mikel-san-jose-dominguez", {"id":"754","slug":"benat-etxebarria-urkiaga", {"id":"860","slug":"ander-iturraspe-derteano", {"id":"2233","slug":"inaki-williams-arthuer", {"id":"924","slug":"iker-muniain-goni", {"id":"2021","slug":"inigo-cordoba-querejeta", {"id":"1095","slug":"yuri-berchiche-izeta", {"id":"849","slug":"iago-herrerin-buisan", {"id":"763","slug":"markel-susaeta-laskurain", {"id":"2229","slug":"inigo-lekue-martinez", {"id":"2773","slug":"daniel-garcia-carrillo", {"id":"2224","slug":"mikel-rico-moreno", {"id":"1984","slug":"oscar-de-marcos-arana", {"id":"422","slug":"aritz-aduriz-zubeldia", {"id":"1224","slug":"ander-capa-rodriguez", {"id":"2496","slug":"raul-garcia-escudero", {"id":"2168","slug":"unai-lopez-cabrera", {"id":"1826","slug":"mikel-balenziaga-oruesagasti", {"id":"2136","slug":"unai-simon-mendibil", {"id":"2397","slug":"gorka-guruzeta-rodriguez", {"id":"2483","slug":"peru-nolaskoain-esnal",
|id=234/name
) and gets the new form id string from the list in {{
Athletic Bilbao profile/data}} (which has the current first team as listed above). If not available it just uses the id as passed. This means setting the id to the new style string form (e.g. |id=cristian-ganea
) will work.I think, in all humility, this tag at Cristian Díaz makes for a very poor read. I tried to adjust it but failed miserably, hence left the current one be.
Suggestions anyone? Thanks anyone -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:42, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
These type of photos are at risk of being deleted from Wikipedia Dear fellow members, I am in an un-deletion discussion at Wikimedia Commons with an editor who claims that the 11-men standing photo is outside of copyright restrictions due to not being artistic. I would appreciate it if any member of the FOOTY community who knows more about football photos or publications could help provide some input into the discussion. I worry that, as the deletion reasoning stands, it will not only continue affecting one of our featured articles ( Peru national football team), but the implications also might affect other 11-men standing photographs currently available for free fair use.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:32, 30 November 2018 (UTC) Link to the discussion ( CLICK HERE).-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Someone moved this page to Fabri (footballer). Sure, a player career before a managerial one, but i seriously doubt we will ever learn any stats for this subject (i.e. only a Tercera División footballer), thus it's kind of "risky" addressing him as a footballer if he was not a professional/encyclopedical one (a coaching career at the highest level in various countries, that he had). Makes more sense to rename this guy "Fabri", my two cents.
Thoughts anyone? Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 01:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Makes sense. So, if i get you well (maybe i fail at that, i'm a bit thick regarding technicalities), it's best to leave the second item as it is and rename the first (for example) "Fabriciano González Penelas" and add a hatnote, thus avoiding second-guessing in the process? -- Quite A Character ( talk) 01:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Is this Transfer of Cristiano Ronaldo from Real Madrid C.F. to Juventus F.C. really needed? Kante4 ( talk) 19:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Is he going to be the only sportsperson in the world with articles to his museum, his bust (i think it was a separate one, now it's been duly moved to the sculptor's page, apologies if i'm confusing myself there) and his transfer fees? An utter joke, my humble two cents. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 21:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Many of you will probably remember former Ipswich Town stalwart (and occasional England star), Kevin Beattie, who recently died.
His biography is at FAC and I'd really appreciate any input from you guys. Even if you don't remember him!
He had a really interesting and in some ways sad life. Do take a peek at the article. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:42, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
On Pep Guardiola's page, it cites him as being one of the best midfielders of his generation with only one source (Johan Cryuff picking him in his World XI team). From what I've seen, similar type claims on other articles require a greater amount of in-depth sources, and I am not even sure this one actually addresses the point at hand as it is one man's opinion. Another editor disagreed however and wanted to keep it in, so what are people's opinions on here? Is this enough evidence to solidify the claim? Davefelmer ( talk) 04:58, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Do we really need all the detail in his Managerial statistics section? I've not seen it for anyone else. -- Daemonickangaroo2018 ( talk) 08:34, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Those who know me, will know I edit a lot about Norwich City F.C..
An incredible website exists, called Flown From the Nest (it's an in-joke for Canaries fans - see The Nest), which has details on the lives and careers of a stupendous number of former Norwich players, managers, administrators and others.
If I were to be harsh, I'd venture that it is reliable and accurate in what it says, but it can sometimes be out of date, so if it says someone left Norwich and went to Kings Lynn, they definitely did that, but they may have subsequently moved on to Thetford. It's definitely reliable for information about people's time with Norwich.
I'd like to know if we can regard it as RS for people's Norwich careers? -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:51, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi all - is there any reason other than omission that {{ National football squad player (recent)}} doesn't accept the natvar attribute like {{ National football squad player}} and {{ National football squad player (goals)}}? Many of the pages at the maintenance category are flagged because natvar has been included in the (recent) template - and in many of these cases this results in the incorrect club nationality flag being displayed.
Could it be fixed by one of the clever people who write templates? Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 22:28, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Specifically this page: [1]. Being used as a citation in Kevin Beattie, which is currently being considered as a possible Featured Article. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:32, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Chaps, you're all really welcome to comment at the FAC: Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Kevin_Beattie/archive1. We've had some non-expert attention at the copyedit stage, which was great, but comments from people who know their Hartlepools (singular) from their Hartlepools (plural) are really useful. -- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 13:45, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
There's a bit of an issue at Talk:2018–19 UEFA Europa League#Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. The articles on the competition's qualifying rounds are absolutely massive, with hundreds of transclusions of {{ footballbox}}, resulting in the last few not being rendered (see here). This gives me a good opportunity to suggest something I've been thinking about for a while: getting rid of the {{ goal}} template. Practically the only useful thing I can see about that template is that it standardises the way own goals and penalties are presented in our articles. It isn't exactly obvious that the ball icon indicates that the player mentioned scored a goal (no more so than providing the time of the goal, which we do anyway), which means the use of that icon falls foul of WP:ICONDECORATION. The template also reduces the size of the text for the goal time and own goal/penalty indicator, which can cause accessibility issues, especially since the text in the {{ footballbox}} template is already less than 100% of the default size. Ultimately, {{ goal}} is just yet another template that solves an issue we never really had. I know we've used it for a while, but it's starting to cause issues. Can we please find a way to get rid of it? – Pee Jay 16:58, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
Either way, I'd say the template is used in too many different contexts to be deleted outright (it would make little sense for it to be deleted but the other icons to remain). I would disagree with ICONDECORATION, and {{ Goal}}/{{ Golden goal}}/{{ Silver goal}} also contain alt text for the images. A discussion regarding the use of the {{ Goal}} in {{ Football box}} seems a better option than taking it to TfD. S.A. Julio ( talk) 11:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
As I mentioned at Talk:2018–19 UEFA Europa League#Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded, using templatestyles with a Lua module could reduce the transclusion size when repeatedly using {{ Footballbox}}. This also applies to {{ goal}}. If the goal image was used as a background in the css it wouldn't need to placed as an image each time it was used. The page 2010–11_UEFA_Europa_League_qualifying_phase_and_play-off_round uses has 601 goal icons, each using 430 characters, which adds up to 258k (using one byte per char; utf-8 will use a bit more). That more than 12% of the total transclusion size allowed for a page. I think at least 90% of that can be trimmed if goal was implemented as a module with templatestyles. I've checked that background images are allowed in the saniticed CSS (e.g they are used the citation templates here). Jts1882 | talk 11:49, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
There's broken code in the lede of the article on Jonathan Mensah. Could someone take a look? Robby.is.on ( talk) 12:25, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Amodou Abdullei apparently had a number of (seemingly unsuccessful) trials with various clubs in 2009. Firstly, these have all been put in the infobox, and secondly he has been put in the player categories for the clubs concerned. Is either of these a correct thing to do? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi. For football season articles like 2017–18 in English football or 2017–18 in Italian football, are the dates for inclusion, particularly for national team matches, from July 2017 until June 2018, for example, or is it more like kin to club seasons mid-August to mid-May? Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee ★★★ 18:30, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Can Major League Soccer team infoboxes have team colors/colours added to them? Or is there a reason they are omitted that I’m not aware of? SportsFan007 ( talk) 09:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007
In creating an infobox for Brian Gayle, I noticed that the stats for a couple of his clubs are slightly different on Hugman and Soccerbase:
Bristol Rovers: SB = 24, Hugman = 23
Shrewsbury Town: SB = 67, Hugman = 66
Any idea why this might be, and is there a wider question about stats from one or the other of those sites? Thanks, Nzd (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but Soccerbase are making a lot of errors now. e.g. in Saturday's game between Hamilton and Hibs, (bizarrely) both goalkeepers got injured in the warm-up and had to be replaced. Yet Soccerbase recorded Adam Bogdan as having played in the game for Hibs, and their report shows 12 players in their starting lineup. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 11:33, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Can someone take a look at Adrian Mutu? Looks like we have a WP:COI with AMadrianmutu79 ( talk · contribs) claiming to be the subject and deleting swathes of sourecd content from the article. Thanks, Mattythewhite ( talk) 21:00, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Is there a way to move a category and automatically change all the articles in that category so they are in the new category? FC Versailles was moved to FC Versailles 78 in August, but the associated players category wasn't moved with it. There's only a dozen or so articles in the category so not much of a pain to do manually, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Cheers, Gricehead ( talk) 11:15, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Who can help me do this merge per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2011–12 UEFA Europa League first qualifying round outcome? Thanks Hhkohh ( talk) 08:54, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi all, I just want to ask. Do we need to list the top 10 attendance for a league season page? Like Catalyszczowski did on 2018 Liga 1 page in this contribs? Tag Hhkohh. Thanks. Wira rhea ( talk) 14:31, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Does the EFL Trophy meet WP:N? There's a lot of Charlton players with pages who have only played EFL Trophy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.39.117.10 ( talk) 18:57, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
Can anybody point me in the direction of the warning template for when editors don't update the 'club-update' parameter? Giant Snowman 11:08, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
{{
footyiu}}
. You can add it as a
custom warning in
Twinkle so it'll link to the the relevant aticle.
Nzd
(talk)
11:18, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
Would it make more sense to make a single article called Lebanon national football team results (1940–99) with 145 games or to divide it into two articles called Lebanon national football team results (1940–79) and Lebanon national football team results (1980–99) with 60 and 75 games respectively?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 14:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I just spotted a few of these floating by in my Watchlist. I believe there are over 700 planned for mass changing. All without the definite article, lol.
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 5. The deleted Categories were all under Category:Wikipedian sports fans (now a redlink for obvious reasons).
-- Dweller ( talk) Become old fashioned! 23:22, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Just been reading the 2004 edition of the Guinness World Records, and in the sports/football department it is said this (unfortunate) guy held the record for youngest player to compete in all four major levels of English football. He did play nine matches (according to hiw WP entry) for Sheffield United in that 1992/93 season when they were in the Premier League, yet his Soccerbase entry does not show any matches (please see here https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=20953, either he did not play or old seasons are not displayed anymore).
Also, could it be something was lost in the Portuguese translation of said almanac? Inputs please.
Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 16:27, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Evidently folks, I was just thinking maybe the translation from the English version was made poorly and thus the read made me think something else. In case not, of course the record is accurate; also, as you both duly noted, that record has now longsince been broken. Many thanks for your inputs, take care. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 10:15, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Found this. 'Tis reliable, isn't it not? If so, i'll insert in article to the best of my abilities. Cheers! -- Quite A Character ( talk) 10:19, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Whatever, i've embraced WP:BOLD and inserted it anyway. If anyone wants to go MOS on this one (if need be, obviously)... Happy weekend -- Quite A Character ( talk) 00:27, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm in the process of writing an article for Guernsey footballer Ross Allen. Though he fails WP:NFOOTY, I believe there's enough non-routine coverage solely about him on notable news sites, enough so that he fulfils general notability criteria and thus justifies an article.
Before I begin properly writing the article, could I please get some secondary opinions? The skeleton for the article (including many references to be added) is at Draft:Ross Allen (footballer). Thanks, Mrsmiis ( talk) 05:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
I don't have time but can somebody please work out where the page history of Darlington Town F.C. (formerly Horden Colliery Welfare) has gone? There look to have been page moves/possible C&P job... Giant Snowman 14:08, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Plenty of sources - see eg this and this and this, probably meets GNG and merits an article. Any idea what it should be called? Giant Snowman 12:13, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Article created at 1971 Women's World Cup. Giant Snowman 14:19, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Both the 1970 and 1971 tournaments were organised by de:Fédération Internationale et Européenne de Football Féminin (FIEFF) Bring back Daz Sampson ( talk) 15:13, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Asking for help with Mohammed Magdy Elhussieny. Came across this when working the queue of articles with bad display titles when the author tried to change the spelling of the name. Does this guy meet the notablity guidelines? I was thinking this could even be a hoax given the teams asserted that he's played for: in Egypt, Gibraltar, Bangladesh, Maldives and now Kuwait. See also Mohamed Magdy and Mohamed Magdy (footballer, born 1993), I don't know whether any of these can be determined to be primary topic for the name. – wbm1058 ( talk) 11:58, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
There's a controversial RM over this article here which could do with more input from Footy project members familiar with naming conventions for divisions. Number 5 7 19:39, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I tried to duly move this page to "Popo (footballer)", but was not allowed. As far as i can see, WP already has Adílson Ferreira de Souza (nicknamed "Popó", even though that's not the name of the page) and Popó (footballer).
Mr. Burgos' article clearly needs a page move. All the web searches have him being addressed to as "Popo", and links #1 and #2 in his article (both Spanish) attest to the same.
Suggestions? Attentively, thanks in advance -- Quite A Character ( talk) 20:06, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
My edit to Nicolò Zaniolo's youth career was reverted and I don't want to litigate about this so lets just clear it up here.
In summary he was a Fiorentina youth player in 2016. At the end of the summer transfer market he was discared and moved to Virtus Entella to continue playing with their youth team (the primavera). However a couple months in he was so good for the Primavera that he got his first team debut in Serie B and finished up the season there playing at both senior and youth level. The following season Inter sign him, and he plays the whole year with their Primavera youth side, even winning the primavera league as their top scorer. GiantSnowman has decided his youth career magically ended at Fiorentina and deleted the Entella and Inter sections from his youth career.
What is the consensus? If you want to argue he wasn't an Inter youth player that's fine (it's ridiculous considering he played all the games and won the league as top scorer, but whatever fine), but he was definitely still a youth player when he was signed by Virtus Entella. He didn't magically become a senior player when he was discarded by Fiorentina in 2016.
Moreover I can provide you with countless examples of other youth players signed from Serie D or Serie C that have previously been given their debut in the lower leagues but continued their youth football career. Filippo Berardi for example already played professional football for Rimini when Torino signed him, but he was an important player for our youth team for like 3 seasons. Putting Torino in his senior career instead of youth would be ridicolous because it gives the impression he was a first team player - in reality he's never even been called up. Danieletorino2 ( talk) 06:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
I would agree with Danieletorino2, the youth career and the senior career are to be considered independently: until a player stops being called up for the youth team the infobox should show the player still "currently" playing for both the youth and senior. Also, it wouldn't make sense for a player (such as Nicolò Zaniolo) to have not played for a certain youth team ( Inter) in the infobox but to reference him being the top scorer for them in the youth league in the body of the article. I don't understand where the current consensus has been reached but I feel like it should be revisited. Nehme1499 ( talk) 12:17, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
What about a player who spends 1 year with a youth team, then 1 year with a senior team, and does that for 5-6 years? What about senior players who play for a youth team, as punishment or rehabilitation? etc. When do we decide that a youth career has finally ended? Giant Snowman 14:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Of course a clear statement is very rare, that's why I would opt for the second option I presented. I think that the national team analogy fits well, for example Fabio Quagliarella might be called up for the national team once again as he is yet to retire but we don't say that he has been playing in 2007–, rather in 2007–2010. If a player, say the 17 year-old goalkeeper you mentioned, is on the bench for the first team but never plays football (either professionally or in the youth) for the whole season, it's safe to say that he is only a senior player (so the year count for the youth team would stop). If instead, while staying on the bench for the senior team, he also plays for the youth team then he is to be considered both a youth and senior team and his infobox would reflect it, for example, by saying that he plays in the youth team in 2016– and the senior team in 2018–. Once he stops being called up for the youth team regularly on, for example, 2 February 2019 and he doesn't play in the youth for another year (the time period could be decided, I would say 1 year is appropriate), meaning that if he hasn't been called up for the youth from 2 February 2019 till 2 February 2020, it's safe to change the infobox from 2016– to 2016–2019. Nehme1499 ( talk) 16:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
GS, please don´t missinform users that your prefered version is the one that is consensus. It isn´t. Actually in the last discussion most editors were against you and supported my proposal to stick to the reliable sources thus having overlaping or straigh-or-forth years in infoboxes. Here was the last discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_119#Youth_careers_in_infobox. FkpCascais ( talk) 10:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
For the record, i generally agree using professional debut as a clear cut and just scrap that idea for one season as first team regular and then next season as youth team player . Except those wonder kid case that made their debut at age 16 or even 13 (or arbitrary, any club when he played above age 16-18 are not youth), it work totally fine to consider player that made one professional appearance as pro, which also the criteria of WP:NSPORTS. Or going to area of OR, say 5 first team appearances even they are eligible to play youth/reserves or back to playing age specific ladder team, they are pro and listing the club as youth and pro simultaneously in one overlapping period, did not help to improve the context. In Italy, one wildcard player for the youth team can be in any age, so it did not means much if players still playing for youth team. Or in other league, some first team player can be put in to reserves squad for gaining fitness and keeping the play time on football field. It just step into OR on determinate youth career end date by interpreting appearances and adding arbitrary "not call up" for N month criteria/ instead of simple judgement on first team debut. Matthew hk ( talk) 11:48, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Actually there is real cutting point in real world. Either by regluation the youth league had age limit (U19 for Italy and U20 in the past), or by FIFA solidatary mechanism to youth clubs regulation (clubs until the player turned age 23 in general, but CAS/FIFA courting ruling did rule some players' club at age 20 are not youth club anymore, thus exclude from receiving solidatary mechanism "dividend" from future transfer fee), or by another regulation, below age 18 are minor and above age 18 can sign professional contract. For 1 match debut cutting point, it sound odd for "youth player that made professional debut", but not that silly for "young professional player that played in professional match". The overlap is acutally due to infobox lack of row for "young professional" period (only have uni team year), they trained professionally but at the same time only played in youth/age-sepcifc league. And it is not that good for player such as Super Mario that played over 30 games for first team in a season AND played for youth team in playoffs in May/June, and consider that season still "youth". Those most "senior" youth team actually likes other world's reserves in their special league (did not have much age limitation) and B team (Bayern II, Monaco B) in the same adult league system, is a mix of young professional player that made professional debut and don't. Back to Zaniolo's case, it does not make sense for a player that played 7 games in 2 months as pro and consider Inter was signing him and consider him "youth player", putting that season as youth season and put it in youth club row, instead of signing him as "young professional", ready to loan out to pro team, but immediate lack of play time in first team as compare to world class pro player. Matthew hk ( talk) 08:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Question's in the title: the current second tier is deemed fully pro in context of WP:NFOOTBALL, but when does this assumption of fully-professional status date from?
This stems from me de-prodding David Keddie on the grounds that he'd played 60-odd games in the second tier in the 1960s, without considering that it quite possibly wouldn't have been deemed fully pro that long ago. User:Aoziwe queried the de-prod at the talk page and I suggested seeking knowledgeable opinion here. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 13:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, while researching for the Lebanese national team I have come across their first match played in 1934 against a Romanian club called "Altak". As searching for "Altak" didn't give me any result, I'm guessing that Altak is either:
I have found a team called Club Atletic Oradea that could have been the team in question as they have toured French colonies in the 30s but after contacting the club they told me that they had toured North-african countries and not the middle east. Another person found that it could be CA Timisoara (T.A.C.) who have toured the middle east in 1934 (no information on Lebanon however).
In short, I'm asking if there is someone who knows about a Romanian club in the 30s called either "Altak" or whose initials are "T.A.C." that has toured the middle east and played against lebanon in 1934.
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 20:29, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
I contacted the author of the RSSSF website in question (Neil Morrison), and he told me this:
"A club from Timisoara (Romania) toured the Levant in early 1934 - matches included the following:
It seems likely that this was the same club which visited Beirut, although no Beirut match is mentioned above (possibly Beirut was visited later).
The name this the Romanian club was not given in the source of the above results ("The Palestine Post") but it was mentioned that the club was the champion of Transylvania. The Hebrew newspaper "Haaretz" gave the team's name as an abbreviation, which, transliterated, is T.A.C.
The club which seems to fit the description (initials T.A.C. and regional champions in 1934) is Clubul Atletic Timisoara:
Therefore my best guess is that "Altak" was an Arabic phonetic reading of "Al-T.A.C." i.e. and that C.A. Timisoara was the true identity. But I don't have anymore detailed source to confirm this guess."
I would also add that Clubul Atletic Timisoara was regularly called C.A.T., meaning that the acronym isn't something that Neil Morrison "invented". The only problem involves the order of the letters, which is inversed. I would guess that, since Hebrew is written from right to left, someone messed up the translitteration of the acroynm somewhere down the line (from hebrew to arabic or to english, from arabic to english, ecc...). Nehme1499 ( talk) 12:26, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
I responded to this question Talk:Portsmouth F.C.#Brett Pitman FIFA nationality however, now I am questioning myself, if you haven't represented a country, should the flag icon be that of the Island you were born on? Govvy ( talk) 20:16, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Some sources say he is Belgian, some say Dutch - any idea? Giant Snowman 11:29, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Are there any editors here who possess a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive who would be able to check one or two pages for me to help with a sourcing issue? Kosack ( talk) 11:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Before an edit war of some sort emerges from this: do we really need the Ballon d'Or stuff in this guy's intro? Methinks in the body of article (club career) is more than enough, these NOMINATIONS added nothing to his career (one vote both editions combined), so not an accomplishment whatsoever.
Opinions, please. Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 14:13, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. Ninad05mestry ( talk) 14:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
On a similar note, I see some player's articles listing finishing positions such as 9th and 10th in the Ballon D'or in the honours section. Do we consider lower placed finishes like this as an honour? Kosack ( talk) 14:50, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
(apologies if this has been asked before) How should the infobox reflect transfers at this time of the year? E.g. If a player joins a club now, should the infobox say 2018 or 2019? Is it to be based on when the transfer was completed or when registered? I've recently reverted edits over at the Maximiliano Meza article that changed the year from 2018 to 2019, as the transfer was completed in the last 24hrs. R96Skinner ( talk) 21:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
2018–19 Premier League, 2017–18 Premier League, 2016–17 Premier League and others seem to be going through this systemic removal of flag icons by Sportsfan 1234 and then there seems to be people reverting those flags, I have reverted at one point. But there seems to be a more widespread issue I think we need to discuss regarding these articles and beyond.
MOS:SPORTFLAGS suggests that we should use flags for players that have represented their international team, I have nothing against using flag icons on these pages, I don't think we should apply flags to Managers, but players only. I was hoping we could discuss this issue, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 14:07, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I would recommend those who have spoken in favour of including the flags to take a glance at WP:WORDPRECEDENCE, which states that "Words as the primary means of communication should be given greater precedence over flags", and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Icons#Accompany flags with country names, which instructs us that "The name of a flag's political entity should appear adjacent to the first use of the flag". It is also worth considering that the nationalities these flags represent are entirely unsourced. Mattythewhite ( talk) 17:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I really don't understand the argument here. The WP:SPORTFLAG clearly supports the use of flags to demonstrate sporting nationality. This is both useful, and uses little space, so does not detract anything from the article. The argument from Sportsfan 1234 that they shouldn't be used because this is not an article about national teams is insane. That implies that flag should only be used for national teams....which would be pointless as they will all have the nationality of the country they are playing for. Also for national teams the squad listing states which domestic club a player plays for, by the logic above this should be removed as it is not an article about club football. National Flags should definitely be reinstated, and any significant changes in the presentation or information that impacts an array of articles should be discussed and approved here first rather than individuals changing some articles resulting in inconsistency between similar articles. Jopal22 ( talk) 18:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I don't think people going on about WP:ACCESS here realise how out of date WP:ACCESS is over flag icons, firstly I am colour blind and I don't need the name of the country after the flag, because if I hover over the flag, I can read the alt popup code. Secondly, I can use special function to have my software read back to me what any image is including flag icons. Clicking a flag icon is a useful function, however it can be annoying at times, because the voice software responds with "Clickable media" a lot!! Govvy ( talk) 10:46, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
I've received a message from @ Dav90mun07 on my talk page (reproduced below) about an edit I recently reverted on the Frank Grayer article as unsourced:
Hi Nzd,
Yes, you have made a mistake with taking out the information I provided on the birth location of Frank Grayer, he was born in Southampton, Hampshire, England according to the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915, and 1891 England Census records. so please use the citation below to be included into the information on Frank Grayer. thank you.
[1] and also this reliable source material
[2]
Dav90mun07 (
talk) 20:59, 20 December 2018
I've had a look at the birth records/census details and they do indeed show a Frank Grayer born in Southampton on that date, and I couldn't find one born in Brighton. However, along with my revert I had also added the Joyce book as a ref for the Brighton birthplace, so it looks like we have at least two published sources showing something which appears to contradict with the primary sources. It would be useful to get other editors' input as to how such situations are handled, and whether this constitutes original research. (Pinging @ Daemonickangaroo2018 as original article creator.) Nzd (talk) 08:15, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
References
FYI there's a question about football kits at the Teahouse here. If someone who can create kits can look at it, that would be appreciated. Joseph 2302 ( talk) 17:05, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
.....a very happy Christmas to everyone at WP:FOOTY. And may your team win on Boxing Day...........unless you support Portsmouth ;-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:50, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Merry festivities to you all, from Portugal! -- Quite A Character ( talk) 19:13, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Can I please have so help or advice for the India national football team. I have a user there who obviously doesn't know how to write properly in English, adds a ton of unnecessary information that shouldn't be in the main article, and then touts himself as this amazing historian of Indian football because of how long he has been following it. Yes, I messed up also by calling him a baby but he has also been touting himself the whole time as this expert, that he himself has edited pages like RSSSF (not sure about that but he says it) and honestly it just got to me like, honestly, who cares, this is an encyclopedia, no ones cares what you did or how long. I never even said I owned the page but that I would prefer it to have accurate facts based on sources and written properly. Yet he keeps adding in stuff like how the kit isn't orange or white due to other neighboring countries like Bhutan, Nepal, and Bangladesh when the source only mentions Pakistan. It is honestly infuriating. -- ArsenalFan700 ( talk) 20:30, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I have a war of edits with the user User:Xabel10 concerning the logo of this team.
The club recently updated the logo to the version I update, as it is used by the club in the t-shirts of all their teams, in the website, in publications about the club, social networks, etc. His logo, and older version, only is used at some sections in the website that do not require to be updating continuously and in the website of the Regional Football Federation (that have other logos in older versions).
Please, help us to end this. Greetings, Merry Christmas and happy 2019. Asturkian ( talk) 14:27, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
-- Xabel10 ( talk) 14:46, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
There are several moves on pages to colourize headers, such as at 2018–19 Manchester City F.C. season and 2018–19 Chelsea F.C. season Personally I find this tremendously distracting and difficult to read, particularly as players and their flags are already there. My suggestion is to keep the standard grey and less intrusive headers. In favour of trying not to get into edit wars I thought I would seek other opinions. I have reverted these colours several times already but at least one editor keeps re-colourizing. I appreciate any thoughts! Krazytea( talk) 20:50, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
Just wanted to ask what people thought for mehstg.com as a source. Govvy ( talk) 12:49, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Could other editors keep an eye on the Peter Thompson article please? Today's date keeps being added as the death date, but the sources say he died "at the weekend". [12] [13] I'm up to three reverts (although I suspect WP:3RRNO would apply). Maybe worth considering protection?
This would be a good one to develop BTW. Nzd (talk) 15:00, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Note: Due to technical issues, this page cannot run two RM at the same time, see
User talk:RMCD bot#Alexander Michel for more details
Hhkohh (
talk)
10:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew hk ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I was looking at some pictures of Lebanese football in the 90s and I came across a kit manufacturer of some Lebanese teams, as well as the national team. Is anyone able to identify it?
Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 19:53, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Can an uninvolved admin please review and close this? No comments for nearly 3 months... Giant Snowman 10:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
or who appear by their international appearances to be the same player: Joe Davies (footballer, born 1870) and Joseph 'Joe' Davies (footballer, born 1870). Apart from there being two of him, there appears to be disagreement between sources about the birth year. The former has only one source, that gives birth year of 1866, and the latter was originally sourced to a Sheffield United book which also gave 1866. Yet they're both resident at (born 1870), which the latter attributes to ENFA, to which I have no access. Anybody qualified to confirm whether they are the same bloke or not, and then sort the articles out? cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 18:13, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello all, is there any quick and easy way to insert a template (this one in this case: Template:Top level Turkish football seasons) to all seasons of the Süper Lig? It's quite a work to insert it in all ~60 seasons seperately. Maybe it is possible for an admin to do that? Thanks for the help in advance. Regards, Akocsg ( talk) 12:59, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Nevermind, I just noticed that Hack already did that for me. Thanks! Akocsg ( talk) 15:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm of the view that this is a reliable source - it aggregates data on non-league games inputted by the clubs themselves. However, I've seen it removed from articles for not being reliable. Thoughts? OGLV ( talk) 22:12, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
We have a problem, see WP:BOTREQ#Bot to convert Template:Fb cl2 team transclusions to use Module:Sports table Hhkohh ( talk) 18:28, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
As I say in the discussion, this article is completely unuseful. Asturkian ( talk) 08:21, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, there's an ongoing move discussion at Talk:Alexander Michel#Article name doubts. As we have yet to reach a consensus, it would be nice if someone would take a look at the discussion and give his opinion on the matter. Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 02:06, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I was wondering, do we have a set standard the articles should follow? List of English football transfers winter 2018–19 has started, but it feels like every loan and transfer is thrown in there, should we list football league only? Or just the top two divisions like List of English football transfers winter 2002–03? Govvy ( talk) 12:59, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
I was trying to move User:Govvy/Timothy Eyoma and User:Govvy/George Marsh out of my sandbox into main space because they made their debuts in the FA Cup, but for some reason the move names I kept choosing didn't work, wondered if an admin can work it out for me, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 21:40, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
This edit claims that the "MLS Cup Playoffs are the equivalent to the League Cup". I am not in agreement with this and I am more than willing to revert back to the "Other" column. It is not called a "League Cup". It's not available for every team in Major League Soccer let alone multiple leagues like the English version of the League Cup. The English Football League playoffs and Dutch playoffs. would not be classified as such. MLS Cup playoffs has the word "playoffs" in it. Just like in England and the Netherlands, a team qualifies for the playoffs based on league position. So, I see no reason why it should be a league cup. Kingjeff ( talk) 05:10, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, just to be sure: being called up for a national team, without actually playing a minute for them, doesn't grant a player notability for Wikipedia right? Nehme1499 ( talk) 21:07, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Is there anyone with knowledge of Indonesian football here? I'm concerned about these IP edits, all of which change the club from Persebaya Surabaya to Bhayangkara F.C. in player infoboxes and other places for the 2015 season. Both clubs were in fact involved in a series of mergers and renamings around the same time, so some truth might be in there. -- BlameRuiner ( talk) 08:24, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please fix the list, it's just going to be a great big long table which is stupid. Can some compitent editor please, please, please, seperate loans from transfers, and seperate per month, please, please, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:E26B:F900:9532:BA2F:128D:AABD ( talk) 12:25, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
GiantSnowman, who is going through an ArbCom case, has suggested that input is gathered from WikiProject Football on how unsourced edits are dealt with. Views have been put forward that Soccer articles attract a significant amount of inappropriate edits. I can imagine this to be true. How do folks in this project typically deal with inappropriate articles? As an example, following up on a comment in the Evidence page of the ArbCom case, I started to edit Julius Bliek by bringing over and copyediting material from the Dutch article. While I was still editing, a section I was working on was reverted because it was unsourced and incorrectly formatted. About an hour later another editor replaced that section with appropriate formatting and references. Which edit is the more typical of the project? Which edit is the one most expected and encouraged of members of the project? Which edit is the more reasonable in the circumstances of editing a topic area that faces a lot of inappropriate edits? SilkTork ( talk) 20:32, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
In general: we have to look at each unsourced edit on its merits. We can't just go round deciding that the "encyclopedia that anyone can edit" actually can't be edited by inexperienced editors because they don't know the "rules". And if an edit gets removed because it does break the rules, we need to tell the editor what was wrong. At this time of year, with the transfer window opening, there'll be a lot of crap written on a lot of articles, and there'll also be a lot of not-quite-perfect people genuinely trying to improve the encyclopedia. We need to be able and willing to spot a good-faith edit when we come across one and behave accordingly. It shouldn't take long to check whether Player A signing for Club B is fact, rumour or nonsense, and whether Editor C is a regular purveyor of nonsense or not. cheers, Struway2 ( talk) 14:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Mattythewhite: - you might be interested in this. Giant Snowman 11:05, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for everyone's input. I was curious as to why GiantSnowman pinged User:Mattythewhite, so I took a look at his talkpage, and found this exchange interesting and useful. My impression from reading the comments here, and in that discussion, is that there is a difference of opinion in WikiProject Football regarding how to deal with new editors and how to deal with information updates in articles. Is that impression correct? Are there users here who want to be hardline in regards patrolling football articles in order to encourage maximum following of the rules, while others wish to be more helpful in order to encourage new editors and to ensure accuracy of the articles, though this may mean a little more work? Is this a fair summary? There are some who see that it is possible to clean up within the spirit of Wikipedia, while others feel that given the amount of real and potential inaccuracies introduced into football articles that in order to control it, speed and firmness are what is important, and that such behaviour is permitted within Wikipedia's policies. SilkTork ( talk) 16:03, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that this project was under significant pressure in the past regarding the amount of unreferenced BLPs - I remember at one point a few years ago we were rushing to reference tens of thousands of BLPs (and proposing deletions for the many unreferenced BLPs that were not notable). It was a massive amount of work conducted over a period of a few months, and while we have a much more manageable amount of unreferenced BLPs, there are so many poorly-referenced BLPs (e.g., single external link) within this project that I completely understand the way group members try to strictly adhere to WP:V. It's a tough balance when editors (many who make a handful of completely unsourced edits and vanish) are constantly adding content to these thousands of articles. [Just a few days ago I stumbled across a Zambian football club article that was vandalized many months ago - the editor even admitted to some vandalism in his edit summaries.] I think it's important not to discourage the editors who have spent countless hours patrolling and improving these articles. Jogurney ( talk) 04:25, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
It's difficult to answer this because I have only edited a handful of non-football-related articles. However, my experience was there was more ownership and edit-warring behaviors exhibited outside of this project (perhaps I choose too controversial articles). Jogurney ( talk) 14:55, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
I think that's a reasonable assessment. As someone who has just shy of 5,000 football-related articles watchlisted, I do try to check every change but sometimes that's just not possible. I can only imagine the rate at which editors like GS and Matty - who probably have a multitude more articles watchlisted than I have - find themselves working at. As I noted in the discussion you linked to before, there are specific data integrity issues which, combined with the high volume of edits, make football articles something of a special case. We have regular issues with new/IP editors changing clubs or updating appearance stats incorrectly, and differentiating between good-faith attempts and malintent can sometimes be difficult. As well as all of the unsouced stuff, there are also issues where changes are sourced only to user-generated sites like Transfermarkt.
That's not to say I agree with GS's actions. The use of mass rollback seems to have been counterproductive in many cases. A couple of hours ago, I updated stats for James Rowe, only to discover afterwards that the same valid stats had been rolled back previously, twice. Also mentioned above is the blanket removal of anything not inline-cited, and indeed one of my first encounters with GS was this. I'm not sure how this kind of robotic removal really helps the encyclopedia. If I'm working on an article now, I actually make a point of going through the history to look for valid content that GS might have removed.
The other issue, probably one best answered by ArbCom, is to what extent an admin is involved when reverting. I agree with @ Koncorde's point above (with apologies if I've misstated it) that any editor (admin or not) has the right to challenge/revert content that is unsourced, and in many cases would be correct in doing so. However, various comments at ANI asserted that GS blocking editors that he has himself reverted is counter to this part of the policy, and I would tend to agree with this.
Ultimately, I'd prefer not to see GS lose the mop, but I would like him (and, indeed, the project) use this as an opportunity to make some changes to how new and inexperienced editors are handled. GS, as has been pointed out by various others, is one of our most prolific editors, both in content creation and patrolling, and knows the project and the 'football world' intimately. The project needs admins like that. It already doesn't have enough.
Moving forward, I think it'd be useful for the project to work on some ideas which might reduce the volume of 'problem edits', and address some of the points that have been raised in the ArbCom case. WP Football doesn't have much in the way of guidance for new editors, which probably results in good-faith, but incorrect, attempts being reverted, and potential new editors being scared off. This clearly doesn't help the WikiProject, or Wikipedia in general. I'd like to see us do more to encourage inexperienced editors and for us be able to give a clear explanation of what is expected of them. This should not only help with retention, but would also help patrollers get a better handle on whether an editor has genuine malintent or competence issues. To that end, I've opened up another discussion with some suggestions below. Nzd (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Clearly an own goal by Vincent Sasso, no (please see here https://www.vsports.pt/vod/48425/m/449680/vsports/4b3fa6de955f86d0da800c23846101df)? FORADEJOGO (reliable whereas ZEROZERO is not) says he has 10 matches and no goals thus far.
Before an edit war is afoot, inputs please. Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 18:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Hence i asked, to go with just other than my opinion. FORADEJOGO is considered reliable like i said in original message, they don't credit the goal. This just in: the Portuguese League website (they are the governing body of the professional leagues) does give him the goal ( http://ligaportugal.pt/pt/epocas/20182019/noticias/geral/liga-nos/15-jornada/sporting-cp-leva-a-melhor-sobre-belenenses-e-sobe-ao-segundo-lugar/). i will change it thus.
If anybody has additional thoughts please share them here, what's good about this site is that every bit of info can be altered, much better if done through discussion. -- Quite A Character ( talk) 20:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Following on from the discussion above, I've noted down some suggestions for how the project might do more to encourage new editors and provide guidance on editing expectations. It'd be useful to get feedback on which (if any) others think are good ideas. I don't mind putting some work into drafting something based on input received.
{{
footyiu}}
can be added as a
custom warning in
Twinkle to notify editors about updating timestamps){{
infobox football biography}}
.|source=
parameter to {{
infobox football biography}}
. This is included in {{
Infobox cricketer}}
and seems to work well.Other editors may obviously have their own ideas. Nzd (talk) 22:26, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Could other editors please take a look at recent edits on Brisbane Roar FC. @ Eden64 is adding content sourced to a blog, and I've reverted twice. I'd rather not get into an edit war. Cheers, Nzd (talk) 00:55, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
validating much of the criticism on the latter stages of his tenurepart, which very clearly falls foul of the WP:SYNTH part of the OR policy, but have left the rest. Nzd (talk) 02:09, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Is there a consensus that only players listed on club websites as first-teamers should be listed in the 'First-team squad' sections of the club articles? @ P0g0.try has been removing players on this basis. Xande Silva played in the Premier League today, yet has been removed from this section the West Ham United article. That seems a bit odd to me. Thoughts? Nzd (talk) 00:09, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
I'd expect to find any player that either has a squad number or has been in a matchday squad in a list. On this basis, Silva should definitely be included. Number 5 7 13:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Viking FK was promoted from the 2nd tier of football in Norway last season (2018), and will now play in a fully professional league in the 2019 Eliteserien. Most of their first team players have professional contracts, but there are currently 11 players without a Wikipedia article. Can I create these articles? Or should I wait until they make an appearance in the league? Sørhaug ( talk) 08:51, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I was reviewing some of the UEFA Euros and World Cup qualifier pages, and noticed that whereas the Euro qualifiers had maps that illustrated which nations did and did not qualify, the World Cup counterparts lack these. While I would create and add these maps myself, I have no experience, so I was wondering if anyone would support or be willing to add the images themselves. Thanks. Good888 ( talk) 11:09, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
Don't these kind of maps already exist here? DelUsion23 (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello! Quick question about Matías Vera. A deal was announced by Houston Dynamo, stating they've signed Matías Vera. However, in the official release on their website they state it is "pending receipt of his International Transfer Certificate (ITC) and P-1 Visa along with a completed medical". As such, I added that information to the article but didn't change the infobox, categories etc. @ UncleTupelo1: disagrees, he says the deal is completed despite the aforementioned - claiming it's "standard MLS transfer talk", with Vera added to Houston's squad list here. In fairness, I've been following to see if/when the medical gets done and have seen many media acting as if the transfer is indeed done. So, what's the stance that should be taken? R96Skinner ( talk) 16:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Didn't we have something against having a large kit gallery like on this page? Govvy ( talk) 18:09, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I am having some trouble interpreting the guidelines at
WP:WikiProject Football/League season#Standings for
League1 Ontario, specifically the
2017 and
2018 seasons which each had different formats. The league is tier 3 in Canada and has no promotion and relegation. The league champion is determined by playoff and also qualifies for
Canada's national cup competition. A league cup is also awarded in a separate competition.
I am hoping for some clarification on which colours should be used to indicate playoff berths, should champions be indicated on the standings table despite not being determined until playoffs, should league cup winner be indicated on the standings table with a letter, etc.
BLAIXX
20:35, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I don't follow football, but somehow Georges Leekens made it onto my watch list. Today I saw that there were a number of new & IP editors that removed material from the article, & I am asking editors who are more experienced with the national football teams to have a look. Peaceray ( talk) 20:03, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Born in England, played for Eire at youth and B level. In 2018 he was "interested in switching [his] allegiances to NI" per this but from what I can see never did. An IP keeps changing his flag to NIR rather than IRL. Thoughts? Giant Snowman 16:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
Ada Hegerberg is the one we should focus on. ImmortalWizard (chat) 20:55, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, Sorry if this has been asked already... what lists of hat-tricks are notable? I saw here that some leagues and some national teams have pages for them, but not all. Is this notability issue or just no one got around to creating the rest? -- SuperJew ( talk) 12:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, is it just me or have FIFA removed the individual national team results pages? For example, if I click on "All fixtures and results" on Lebanon's profile page on FIFA, it just redirects me to an add for their app. Have they moved the results pages to the app in order to promote it? Thanks, Nehme1499 ( talk) 22:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I have to say, this season page is a perfect example of over use of primary sourcing, should use it as an example of what not to do!! Govvy ( talk) 14:08, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi there. I've reverted all of the four infobox updates from 91.69.84.197 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) I came across in my watchlist because they were inaccurate. Maybe someone would like to take a look at the remaining changes which are likely wrong? (Edit: In fact, the Talk page suggests a block might be in order.) Regards, Robby.is.on ( talk) 21:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
{{
footyiu}}
is made for, no?
Gricehead (
talk)
10:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
1 - after seeing that in Mauro Eustáquio and José Bosingwa, the following question arises: shouldn't we have just one "People from X" (or "Sportspeople from") category? Is it customary to have two in some cases (in which, then)? I'd go always with the place where the subject was born (not raised, as it seems to be case here?).
2 - Phil Jones (and others, I thus assume): is a fourth place at the World Cup (or a similar competition) an honour? Never knew that, sincerely.
Attentively -- Quite A Character ( talk) 13:04, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm sorry GS, I don't follow, birth place is not sufficient for what? From where I come from, both Mr. Eustáquio and Mr. Bosingwa have comprehensive sources for both "departments", where they were born (as well as the descent) and where they were raised -- Quite A Character ( talk) 13:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I was thinking if I could use a YouTube video to source a claim. For example, if I say that a goal has been incorrectly considered offside, and the video clearly shows the goal being onside (also showing the still-image of the offside line and everything), can I use it as a source? I'm asking about this specific situation since a goal being on/offside is (usually) a yes or no answer (it's not subjective, unlike fouls or yellow cards). Otherwise, can I take a snapshot of the still-image, upload it, and use that as a source? What's your opinion on this? Nehme1499 ( talk) 23:39, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
An article on David Johnson (soccer) has recently appeared. Given we already have some articles on other David Johnsons who were footballers ( David Johnson (footballer, born 1976) and David Johnson (footballer, born 1951)), does this disambiguation work? If not, would David Johnson (footballer, born 1984) be appropriate given that they're American, or should it be David Johnson (soccer player, born 1984). Number 5 7 22:12, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Can someone sort this IP, guy out, he has a WP:OWN complex over the article. I've been reverted so many times for trying to fix the article it's nuts. Govvy ( talk) 20:31, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
It seem his international cap was not consistent among the source. For example, soccerway listed a friendly appearance against South Africa. However NFT.com did not record that match, but against Zambia instead. May be dig out individual match report on newspaper, and add the sum ourselves? Matthew hk ( talk) 21:35, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Can I confirm that we do not regard transfermarkt as a reliable source? Dumdaiduekdingdao keeps adding two inches onto the height of Jay Emmanuel-Thomas, based on a transfermarkt profile.... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 14:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Sources for a player's height can sometimes vary. Where there is a discrepancy, the most recent official source should usually be used. Generally, this would be a player's club/league profile, or FIFA listing.I'm working up some guidance (per above) and thought this would be a useful thing to add.The Emmanuel-Thomas example is something of an exception, as discussed on that talk page, and is the main reason for my use of usually/generally. Nzd (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
I was trying to clean up Jesper Fredberg, and realized the article's sourcing didn't support the claim that he had worked as a manager in a fully-pro league (except for a stint as caretaker manager in the Cypriot top flight). He was the club's academy coach and became the caretaker manager after the senior side's regular manager was removed with 8 matches remaining in the 2017–18 season. Do we treat a caretaker in the same manner as a regularly-appointed manager? (I think it's possible the article can satisfy our notability requirements in some other way - it claims he played for AGF, and otherwise there could be enough sourcing to satisfy WP:GNG, but I wanted to understand what the group thinks about caretakers.) Jogurney ( talk) 20:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I want to ask, maybe it's a stupid question. Is winger a forward player or a midfield player? Wira rhea ( talk) 08:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Forward_(association_football)#Winger as mentioned here, in the English 4-4-2 system it's counted as a midfielder. But nowadays 4-4-2 is almost history. As many clubs are playing with only 1 striker, the wingers are counted as strikers. The modern midfielders from now are the defensive, central and attacking midfielders. Every time I'm adding the wingers to the forwards it is getting rejected. Is it possible to accept it when it is not a English team?
On a side note, I wanted to create a shortcut to the bottom of the links page, we have WP:WPFLINKS. But I am confusing myself as to what WP shortcut would be good to the section of links not to use, maybe WP:WPFLINKSV or WP:WPFLINKSU, asking for idea's what would be best, cheers. Govvy ( talk) 15:11, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Hugh McLaren (footballer, born 1926)#Date of death, thanks! Giant Snowman 10:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, I and Edwink85 want to ask about why transfermarkt is not a reliable source. I don't really know the details so I couldn't explain to Edwink85 about it. Maybe someone can give the details about it? Thanks. Wira rhea ( talk) 12:54, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
The official site is swindontownfc.co.uk so what's with swindon-town-fc.co.uk? Is this a fan site or not? I was a little confused and wanted to double check. And the that websites YouTube channel? I've noticed a link used as a citation, should I remove that link? Govvy ( talk) 21:14, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Is anybody able to make the map smaller, it seems huge on the article!! Govvy ( talk) 22:45, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
What is going on in the qualification relegation column of the table. Some clubs are qualifying for next season's events (European Cup and CWC), others are indicating that they are playing in the Fairs cup that season, based on qualifying the previous season. Is this what was intended or is desired? Jts1882 | talk 15:58, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
Please help me, I am new to this project. Let me know where to start. Thanks! ImmortalWizard (chat) 19:06, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi all, I thought I would to your attention three open RM requests regarding the national football teams articles:
Regards – Ianblair23 (talk) 02:20, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
[14] Anyone tried this, I got 6 out of 10, but what a laugh. Govvy ( talk) 22:09, 20 January 2019 (UTC)